Sean Sherman (2:41)

People in the media are always like, you're Native. Like, what kind of foods do you grow up with? Because they want to hear a cool story. Like, oh, I'd get up in the morning, take down an elk with a slingshot I made, and have a big family feast, you know? But that wasn't the reality, you know? Cause, like, I grew up with the Commodity Food Program because we were poor, like a lot of people on the reservation, and it's just the way it was. And we didn't even have the pretty cans when I was growing up. We just had these, like, black and white cans, just beef and juices, and that's dinner, you know, and that sucks. So. And Indian tacos, you know, like, even when I was a kid, it's like, why? Why does our Lakota food taste like Mexican food? You know, it didn't even make sense to me at the time, but we could do better than this. There's so much more to learn and more to offer with indigenous foods. But first, you have to understand just, like, how diverse our nation is. Like, we're so diverse. There's all sorts of plants and animals out there, and when you layer indigenous peoples on it, you can see so much amazing diversity still. Today, we have 634 tribes in Canada, 573 in the US and 20% of Mexico identifies as indigenous. So there's an immense amount of indigeneity out there today. And we should be celebrating that diversity because it's awesome, and we are the stewards of what's left of this diversity. And a lot of it got wiped off the map in the 1800s with all that colonialism that was going on. So we have to be understanding so we can protect these for the next generation, because these could disappear if we don't do anything about it. So it's really important to understand that we need to be celebrating diversity instead of trying to build stupid walls to keep people out. Right? We need to be better connected to our nature around us and really, truly understand it's a symbiotic relationship. If we can control our food, we can control our future. And for us, it's an exciting time to be indigenous because we are taking all of these lessons from our ancestors that should have been passed down to us, relearning them and utilizing the world today with everything it has to offer and becoming something different. This is an indigenous evolution and revolution at the same time.

Chris Duffy (4:38)

We're going to be talking with Sean in person at his restaurant Owaminee about this evolution and this revolution and in just a moment. So don't go anywhere, but first, a quick break.

Capital One / Verizon / Advertisement Announcer (4:59)

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. The holidays can be a mix of excitement and pressure. Travel, family gatherings, endless to do lists. For some it's a time of traditions, for for others it's a chance to start fresh. Rewriting traditions doesn't have to be complicated. It can be as simple as setting aside time to check in with yourself. Like making therapy part of your routine during the holidays, BetterHelp uses a quick and easy questionnaire to match you with a licensed therapist online so you can start working on your goals without adding one more trip to your calendar. If you aren't happy with your match, you can switch at any time. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms, Having served over 5 million people globally this December. Start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% off@betterhelp.com human that's betterhelp.com human close the year with clarity, not chaos, by trying online therapy with BetterHelp. Hey there, this is Shoshana, host of the TeleHealth podcast. This episode is brought to you by Masterclass. The holidays can get a little overwhelming. The gift lists, the scrolling, the feeling of trying to do a hundred things at once. I needed something that actually felt grounding. So I spent some time on masterclass and honestly, it's been such a gift. I've been taking a class on generative AI, learning how to use these tools as a creative partner instead of something to be intimidated by. It's completely changed how I think about my work and even sparked ideas I probably never would have come up with on my own. With Masterclass you get unlimited access to over 200 classes from world class instructors. Whether it's exploring AI, strengthening your relationships with Esther Perel, or building better habits with James Clear, there's something for everyone across 13 categories. Perfect for holiday travel. You can download classes to watch offline, plus every membership comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com betterhuman for the current offer that's up to 50% off@masterclass.com betterhuman masterclass.com. betterhuman. This episode is brought to you by Monarch. If you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you need to be using Monarch, rated Wall Street Journal's best budgeting app of 2025. Monarch is the all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean inter on your laptop or your phone. And right now, just for our listeners, Monarch is offering 50% off your first year. Before trying Monarch, I had a sense of my finances but didn't know exactly what was going on in every separate account. So when I actually connected with Monarch, I discovered some pretty surprising stuff and learned how I could be much more strategic. And now with the holidays, I can actually set aside some time to organize it all and I can check my holiday spending category to make sure I don't start the new year with a debt hangover. Don't let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use code humanonarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year@monarch.com with code human.

Chris Duffy (8:25)

Today we are talking with chef Sean Sherman about food, culture and context.

Sean Sherman (8:30)

Hi, my name is Sean Sherman. I am here in Minneapolis, Minnesota at our restaurant Owamni. I am the executive director and founder of our nonprofit Natifs, which is North American Traditional Indigenous food systems, and my brand, the sous chef.

Chris Duffy (8:42)

So, Sean, where are we today?

Sean Sherman (8:44)

So we're here in Minneapolis, Minnesota and we're right outside of the Mississippi river and it's a really special location. In the Dakota language, it was called Awamnee Omnee because there used to be this massive waterfall right outside this window and it used to be about 300ft across and about 40 foot drop. And you can kind of see the water levels when you're looking out at the river from here to there. But here at the restaurant, when we named it Owamni, we just took the short name of the original name space of what is around this waterfall area. And the original waterfall is no longer here because during the colonial history a lot of mills popped up in this area and a lot of tunnels and things were drawn and it ruined the natural features of the waterfall. So we see a lock and dam and some concrete skirting, but this is still a really special place and that's where we are.

Chris Duffy (9:28)

And what does Owamni Omni mean?

Sean Sherman (9:29)

Place of the falling swirling water.

Chris Duffy (9:32)

So this is your restaurant here and it's won a bunch of awards, it's gotten a bunch of acclaim. What makes this different than other restaurants in the Twin Cities.

Sean Sherman (9:42)

Well, we wanted to feature kind of our vision of modern indigenous food, and we leaned into the philosophy that I'd been utilizing for quite some time. So the philosophy was basically in order to showcase what our indigenous foods to North America, we took away colonial ingredients. So we removed things like dairy, wheat flour, cane, sugar, beef, pork, chicken, and just really focused on what was here first and built entire menus around that on top of that, just featuring indigenous products from indigenous producers first. Because we want to make sure our food dollars are intentionally going to who we want to support. So it's just a unique and different restaurant, you know, and we believe that there should be Native American indigenous restaurants all over, everywhere. But, you know, unfortunately, this is something super unique, but we're very proud of what we built.

Chris Duffy (10:25)

I've heard you sometimes refer to the food that you serve as ironically foreign.

Sean Sherman (10:29)

It's true. I mean, because a lot of people are very unaware of, like, so much of, especially the botany around us. You know, I feel like proteins are easy because, like, any animal you could eat don't recommend all of them, but it's possible because that's protein. But as far as, like, the, you know, vegetation and botanicals go, like, the Western diets kind of ignored so much of what is just this amazing bounty of what is in North America. And indigenous diets are really focused on a lot of that plant diversity, and we really highlight and showcase a lot of that in our menus today.

Chris Duffy (10:58)

So it's foreign because it's foreign to many people who haven't grown up eating it.

Sean Sherman (11:02)

Absolutely. And because our Western diets are really obviously industrialized and, you know, it's a part of the, you know, just what's in the grocery store. That's where food comes from. But, you know, from an indigenous perspective, when you look outside, there's just food all around us constantly, if you know what to look for, you know, And I think that's part of the education that we're attempting to highlight through the food is just showing that the. There's so much plants, so much diversity, so much health and nutrition that's all around us, and that we could really be looking at the regional and cultural differences all over what is the United States and North America and beyond.

Chris Duffy (11:35)

So that's one of the reasons why I'm really excited to talk to you is because it's not just about serving a delicious meal. I mean, that is a part of it, but that's really a way to get people in and thinking about some of these much bigger issues.

Sean Sherman (11:48)

Yeah, I mean, it's food with story. So I think when you have food with story story, it's really powerful. And that's what we attempt to do because we change the menu quite consistently. We usually change them around the solstices and equinoxes because those are very definitive, like, seasonal changes, you know, but we just want to showcase, like, what's seasonal, what's local, what's regional, what's coming from indigenous producers, what's wild, and just like, telling all that story through the plant. Because, again, there should be Native American restaurants everywhere, especially in the US because no matter where you are, American history starts with Native American peoples. And we're typically completely left out of that whole situation, you know, and food is such an important storyteller. Food is something that people can connect with. And, you know, we just see it as an amazing tool.

Chris Duffy (12:30)

The fact that there aren't Native American restaurants and the fact that there is not a lot of knowledge of indigenous cuisine, it's not accidental.

Sean Sherman (12:41)

No.

Chris Duffy (12:41)

It was a very conscious program to try and erase indigenous history, to try and erase Native American culture.

Sean Sherman (12:50)

Absolutely. I mean, the erasure of indigenous peoples in the Americas has been something that's been ongoing for quite a while, you know, so you can date that back to, you know, the. The beginning of colonization, you know, back in the late 1400s, and with Christopher Columbus, you know, who never actually stepped foot in what is the United States today, but it's still, like, highly revered. Right. But again, you know, I focus mainly on just the United States government, because that's where we live today. And it's a. It's a short history of the United States government, you know, because they don't form until the very late 1700s, and even in the 1800s, in the early 1800s, like, the majority of what is North America is still under indigenous stewardship, as it always had been. And during that time period, many indigenous communities hadn't even seen European people, people yet. And so I look at that one century of 1800 to 1900, which is extremely aggressive, extremely violent, extremely racist. And so many really awful things happen to indigenous peoples during this push from the American government to push westward and to take over a lot of that land space. And growing up Lakota on Pine Ridge, like, you know, it's only a couple generations ago. So my great grandfather, for example, was at Battle of Little Bighorn when he was 18. And, like, my grandparents were the first generation of kids to have to go through assimilation processes, through boarding schools, to cut their hair, to learn English, to learn Christianity and to basically be stripped of culture completely, you know, So a lot of those pieces are a part of the story of why we don't see Native American restaurants everywhere. And, you know, when you look at the 1900s onwards, they're still living in segregation, living in oppression, living in poverty. And all these things are manufactured, you know, because we were just basically put onto reservation systems, which are still segregated communities today. And there's just been a lot of issues there and very little work, you.

Chris Duffy (14:36)

Know, and why food as a way to push back against that whole history.

Sean Sherman (14:40)

I just feel like food is something really powerful, and food sovereignty is what we really push towards. Because if we can get tribes to really consider that there is a path to control their own food, to be able to grow their own food, to harvest their own food, to preserve their own food, to make more than enough food for their entire community with the spaces that they have, and even in all the different environments all over the United States, there's plenty of ways to work towards that. And I think that if we can control our food, we can really control the power that we have for our future, you know, and so I just really hope people can see that we can learn so much from our ancestors, because we're not trying to create food that's a museum piece and trying to go backwards to 1491 of what were we eating long before European settlers showed up. We're looking at the future of, like, how can we adopt a lot of the knowledge base from our ancestors, apply that to what we know today, and how do we think about the future? Because we have every. Every single day we're alive, we can think about changing the future.

Chris Duffy (15:35)

Something that I think is really inspiring to me about your work and also really interesting, like, intellectually, too, is that a lot of people have this interest in the kind of food that you make, right? Like, food that is more connected to a healthier past, to less processed, to not including all these dangerous additives. But a lot of the people who are most interested in that also don't have a curiosity about the context and the history of it.

Sean Sherman (16:06)

Right.

Chris Duffy (16:06)

And the thing that I love about you is that you are both making this really delicious, important, nutritious food, but you're insisting on the history and the context of where it came from and what it means.

Sean Sherman (16:17)

I just think, you know, history is so important, and unfortunately, if we grow up in America, we don't learn about American history. You know, we are taught a very colonial approach to that story, and there's nothing that really Addresses a lot of the hardships that other people go through if you don't happen to be a white Christian male particular particularly. And so there's a lot of issues in American history that get blown over. And, you know, we're living in a time period where it's very political, where there's a lot of political figures trying to erase further people of color and the histories that we have gone through just to be alive today. So especially when we're looking at black and indigenous and American history, you know, like our histories are in danger of being erased all the time, as they always have been. So I think it's really important to about talk because we can really learn so much. And it's not trying to make people feel bad for what happened in history, because history can be really painful. It's just addressing it for what it is, naming it for what it is, and identifying the trauma that's been created from a lot of these histories.

Chris Duffy (17:15)

I am talking to you right now in a moment in the United States when one of the central political issues right now is the question of who is allowed to be here. Yeah. And who is supposed to be here.

Sean Sherman (17:29)

Exactly.

Chris Duffy (17:29)

And that obviously is something that you have been thinking about for a long time of who is allowed to be on this land and who is supposed to be on this land.

Sean Sherman (17:37)

You know, when you understand history, like colonial borders, are these made up lines? And, you know, and governments are, you know, holding on to colonial powers because colonization is just the policy or practice of acquiring full or partial political control over another country, occupying it with some settlers and just exploiting it economically. Right. And so when you look at colonization, it's happened all over the place. And, you know, our governmental systems all over the world, but especially in the Americas, are built to support that colonial mindset of continuously just like ruining the environment, moving around people of color, dividing people by race, dividing people by religion, and all these principles that really have no values when it comes to what does it mean to be a human, you know, because as humans, like, we should all understand how connected we are, because we all live on this planet. We all should understand how the environment affects us and is a part of everything that we do. And if we look at indigenous values of things like kind of understands a lot of those pieces of that close relationship to plants, to environment, to the protection of clean water, things like that, that are just basic human rights, you know, but, you know, the colonization and the capitalization that's out there, like the people in charge want to keep that power, but we just see, like, the Americas is a beautiful space with so much amazing, beautiful indigenous diversity. And we should really embrace that diversity and learn how to try and protect it instead of trying to homogenize it constantly. That's been going on for a few hundred years now.

Chris Duffy (19:04)

So there are hundreds of Native American.

Sean Sherman (19:08)

Tribes, 574 in the United States, 622 in Canada, and 20% of Mexico co identifies as indigenous. But there's obviously way more indigeneity down there because you could just see it in the DNA.

Chris Duffy (19:19)

And so when you think about what it means to have a Native American cuisine or a Native American dish, is that even possible? Or is it a specific, like Lakota dish?

Sean Sherman (19:30)

You can have very specific tribal dishes because a lot of tribes come from very specific regions, obviously, you know, so when we look at that beautiful diversity of not only what were people eating, but how did their culture affect that a little bit, because there could be different groups from different tribes speaking different languages, utilizing the same region with some of the same ingredients, but they have different cultural, you know, intentions with how their food is and meanings behind certain things too. So it's important just to understand the beauty of all of that diversity because like, North America, which has been our main focus of basically looking at Mexico through Alaska and just looking at all that beautiful diversity.

Chris Duffy (20:05)

And what's a colonial ingredient?

Sean Sherman (20:08)

Ranch dressing.

Chris Duffy (20:10)

Okay, Hard to argue with that.

Sean Sherman (20:13)

Even the name, you know, when we're identifying what's colonial, we're talking about things that were introduced to the Americas that didn't exist here before, which is again, like, why we removed things like wheat flour, which wasn't from here, dairy products, because dairy in the Americas was for child rearing. So, like. And most people lose the enzyme to break down lack of by the time you're like 11 or 12 anyways, because we just, in our DNA, just didn't have the ability to keep producing those enzymes and things like cane sugar and just things that were introduced to the Americas. And so we look for what's here. We look at the proteins that were here, which is all the animals, like wild animals, fish, birds, insects, anything that people were eating for protein. But then we're also looking at vegetation of all the wild knowledge of plants, because there's so much cool stuff out there all around us. Because just like where we are in the Great Lakes, we have all sorts of edible parts of trees and roots and flowers and herbs and moss and lichens and all mushrooms and all sorts of things that are out there. And then we also look at the agricultural aspect because there's a vast area of North America that was really highly advanced in agriculture for so long. And we do learn the story of how indigenous people, peoples here taught the colonizers how to farm with their agricultural practices, you know, which becomes a global situation eventually. And people take that for granted of a lot of the foods that came from the Americas have been normalized all across the globe, you know, because like, what is Italy without polenta or chocolate or vanilla or any of those kinds, or tomatoes or chili peppers, you know, in many parts of the world. So it's just exploring for us, like what is indigenous and how do we want this to be perceived for the future, like, how do we want future generations? And for us, we're holding onto the health aspect because by removing those colonial ingredients, the food, like everything at this restaurant is gluten free, dairy free, sugar free, soy free, pork free. And it's like what every fad diet's trying to get to. And it just happens to be the indigenous diet of North America.

Chris Duffy (22:09)

We are going to take a quick break and then we will be back with more from Sean in just a moment.

Capital One / Verizon / Advertisement Announcer (22:30)

This holiday, Verizon is helping you bundle up incredible gifts and savings. You'll get the latest phone with a new line on MyPlan and a brand new smartwatch and tablet. No trade in needed, even on our lowest price plan. That's two gifts for your family and one for you or two for you and one for someone else or three gifts for you and only you. Either way, you save big on three amazing gifts at Verizon, all on the best 5G network. Visit Verizon today. Rankings based on rootmetric Truth score report dated 1H 2025. Your results may vary. Service plan required for watch and tablet. Additional terms apply.

Chris Duffy (22:59)

And now a next level moment from AT&T business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep day. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident. But the vendor isn't responding. And International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease. So the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. ATT 5G requires a compatible plan and device. Coverage not available everywhere. Learn more@att.com 5G Network.

Sean Sherman (23:30)

Ready to order?

Capital One / Verizon / Advertisement Announcer (23:31)

Yes. We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver card. So let's just get one of everything. Everything.

Sean Sherman (23:38)

Fire Everything.

Chris Duffy (23:39)

The Capital One saver card is at.

Capital One / Verizon / Advertisement Announcer (23:41)

Table 27, and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.

Sean Sherman (23:45)

Yes, Chef.

Capital One / Verizon / Advertisement Announcer (23:46)

This is so nice.

Chris Duffy (23:47)

Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.

Capital One / Verizon / Advertisement Announcer (23:50)

Ooh, tiramisu.

Sean Sherman (23:51)

Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining.

Capital One / Verizon / Advertisement Announcer (23:54)

And entertainment with the Capital One saver card.

Chris Duffy (23:56)

Capital One, what's in your wallet?

Sean Sherman (23:58)

Terms apply. See capitalone.com for detail.

Chris Duffy (24:05)

And we are back with chef Sean Sherman. Growing up on Pine Ridge reservation, what was the kind of food that you were starting with, and how did you use that start to get to where you are now?

Sean Sherman (24:17)

Well, I mean, we grew up in a very segregated and colonial state, you know, and, like, we were separated from a lot of the rest of the US because we're so rural, you know, and I grew up out in the middle of the country, so. So we spent most of our time outside, and I was mostly a product of a lot of commodity food and EFDPIR program coming out of the usda. So we just had a lot of cans of government foods, like canned vegetables that are packed in sodium, canned fruits that are packed in corn syrups. Literally just gallons of corn syrup to utilize as a sweetener. And just like, all of the. And just a lot of empty carbs, powdered milks, and just, you know, just a lot of stuff that's just not great for us. A lot of over processed food. And it's led directly to a lot of these health issues that we talk about.

Chris Duffy (24:59)

We've been talking about how this food is not historic. It's not a museum piece. It's very much at the present. And part of that is I'm interviewing you right now in a working restaurant. Right. There's a working kitchen right over there. We can hear and see people working.

Sean Sherman (25:12)

Absolutely. I mean, we've been very lucky that this vision has really worked out as well as it has. And, you know, we basically have been sold out every single night since 2021. And we're very happy that it exists, and we just hope that it has ripple effects of more influence out there in the world.

Chris Duffy (25:27)

So when I. When I first interviewed you for the show, you were just getting ready to open this restaurant, to open Omni. How has it been since then? What's been happening?

Sean Sherman (25:37)

I mean, we've gotten a lot of success. We've won some major awards, like Best New Restaurant in the United States by James Beard, which is a huge national award to win, because there's a lot of cool restaurants that open up every year. But to pull that top prize without ranch dressing I thought was a pretty big accomplishment. You know, that's normally what James Beard is looking for. Exactly right. And so, and we've been really proud of the massive team that we've built and the skills that we're building, the chefs that have come out of here. And we just opened up the doors for so much creativity, you know, and I've been able to step away from, you know, cutting vegetables up in the back to continue continuing to do this larger work and just really see a super competent, amazing team grow out of this. And we just have visions of doing this more and more as we grow.

Chris Duffy (26:21)

You're both expanding your own personal world of indigenous food. You're starting a new restaurant in Bozeman, Montana.

Sean Sherman (26:30)

Yeah. So our everything, even this restaurant, is a part of our non profit, you know, so we kind of use the restaurant as a tool because the restaurant restaurants will never create food relief or even food access for that matter, because restaurants are a privilege because you need money to come to a restaurant and not everybody has money. So the purpose of this restaurant wasn't to feed people in need, because we have other projects for that. But why this restaurant is part of a non profit is because restaurants do create a lot of jobs, which builds a lot of skills, creates a lot of future leaders. And then it also because of our intention of who we purchase from and who our food dollars are going to, because we try and purchase from local and regional indigenous first, and then national indigenous and then support local bipoc. So we have a tier of how things flow, of where our money goes to. And we're just seeing a lot of good where our food dollars are happening because we're pushing over a half a million dollars a year just to indigenous producers alone with this restaurant, with this one kitchen. And so the vision was to continuously grow. So the nonprofits really focused on not only creating access to these foods and creating these projects and creating jobs, but also creating a lot of education and working towards education sovereignty also, which is really pulling the power of education, storytelling, history, crafts and all that stuff back towards ourselves. So we can really understand the cultural relevance and a non Eurocentric approach on education also. So we also do a lot of video work. So if you go to our YouTube, we have over 180 videos uploaded already, all sorts of topics, but largely around food ways. You know, we have a new building and we're opening up a new restaurant in town with a new native concept. And then we're slowly moving into Montana, which will create new Kitchens to do more work, because we're doing a lot of production work for schools and hospitals and manufacturing for large institutional, culinary also. And that's how we see food access of happening more in real time. But eventually, we'll open up a restaurant which will create the jobs, move the food dollars to where we want it, to build the skills and create a place for people to have the experience of sitting in a native restaurant with so much intention and being proud of being proud of it.

Chris Duffy (28:35)

And Natiffs is the nonprofit.

Sean Sherman (28:37)

Natifs is the nonprofit.

Chris Duffy (28:38)

It's an acronym.

Sean Sherman (28:39)

Yep. North American Traditional Indigenous Food Systems. Because when you work in the nonprofit sector, you have to have an acronym. For some reason. I think it's required, but I just prefer, like, you know, acronyms that say something so you can remember what they mean.

Chris Duffy (28:51)

When I talked to you in 2021, you were getting ready to open this restaurant, but you also said that you were seeing this kind of emerging wave in the culture of native representation. And whether it is in something like literature with Tommy Orange and his book there. There, whether it is in TV and film with shows like Reservation Dogs, whether it's you with food, it feels like there has been a really big resurgence of attention and representation in media.

Sean Sherman (29:23)

Yeah.

Chris Duffy (29:24)

How are you feeling that that is continuing or is being pushed back on?

Sean Sherman (29:28)

Well, I mean, of course, there's pushback just because of the political situation that's happening in America today. But I feel like there's been so much amazing creativity and thought leaders coming out of this over the past decade and more, and I think that's really important. And we're just happy to do our part to being able to work with this culinary scene and to be able to do a project like this and for it to get a lot of recognition and attention. And it is changing the way people think about food. And that's what we wanted. We want people to see the beauty in the food. We want people to empathize and understand some of the hardships that a lot of indigenous communities went through and are still facing today.

Chris Duffy (30:03)

It seems like a lot of times, the ingredients that grow locally, weirdly, people think about often as. Like a weed.

Sean Sherman (30:11)

Yeah.

Chris Duffy (30:12)

Yeah.

Sean Sherman (30:12)

I mean, because it's lazy. It's the education that we have, you know, because, like, if we taught kids, like, the names of trees and plants, like, that education can go really far. Because there's so much to learn about. Because so much of the botanicals around us have meaning and have purpose, you know, because plants give us everything. They can be food they can be medicine. They could be crafting. They could be tools, clothing, lodging, weapons. They're a part of our spirituality. They're a part of our religions. They're part of our stories. It's everything to us, you know, and we have so many plant relatives that have been here with our ancestors, too. And there's so much to connect to with plants especially, you know, and so I just feel like there's a better way for education because, like, just around this building, like, we put only indigenous plants around this. This area. And then we did a project where we just put the names of the true names of the plants where they are. So you'll see the Dakota name, because that's the true name of the plant in that soil. And then an English descriptor and name, so people can kind of walk around. You have passive education.

Chris Duffy (31:11)

I've been asking a lot of questions that are kind of on the broader, you know, big meaning societal scale, but something that's really special about food and flavor is that it often is such a tie to our own memories and to our own sense of place and home and comfort. What are some flavors that, for you, do that?

Sean Sherman (31:33)

You know, for me, I always go to choked cherries just because we had them growing around us, and we harvest them, and it's something that's really important and special to a lot of Lakota community. And so we would make a sauce, a simple sauce out of the choked cherries that we called wojiapi. And we would have that on a lot of special occasions, you know, and that's just something that reminds me. Reminds me of the smell of my grandmother's kitchen growing up. But there's lots of things just running around the plains and the smell of sage in the dirt, you know, and all that kind of stuff. Just those memories are always there because I spent so much time outside. And so I just think, you know, food does trigger a lot of memory, and we want to see our own foods just normalized for these next generations. So they just grew up always having it. So it's not just a couple of pieces, but mini pieces. And on a daily occurrence and not.

Chris Duffy (32:21)

Just special occasions, speaking of generations, you work with your family. Your. Your son is in the kitchen right now working. When you were raising your son, and when you're thinking about other people raising their kids, what is it that you want them to think about when they are feeding their families, when they're choosing the ingredients and the dishes that they make?

Sean Sherman (32:39)

So I cook a lot at home, and so he grew up. I don't even think he realizes, like, how much, like, good food was around him growing up, you know, and I gave him the choice early on is like, go ahead and have fast food if you want. Just think about what's in it. Like, you know, if you just look at a hamburger patty from a fast food restaurant, like, does that look like real food? You know, does that look like something that you want to really eat? You know? And so, like, I let him make his own decisions by just giving him some critical fat, you know? And so he hasn't touched fast food restaurants since it's his choice. There's no rules. Do what you want. Everybody loves an In N Out burger or something on occasion, but would you want to live off of it? And so it's just a matter of that. But I think it's important to normalize not only healthy food, but culturally relevant food. And there's so much more that we can be doing. And I feel like America did a really good job of kind of bastardizing most cultures for so long that now is a time where we're seeing such a shift with people really starting to reclaim their own cultural foods and bring it from their own perspectives. And that's what's going on with the indigenous communities too.

Chris Duffy (33:43)

What would it mean to decolonize our diets and our plates?

Sean Sherman (33:48)

So to me, it's a positive motion towards the future because I just like to compare the values of. Like, what are the values of colonization? You know, and they're not great, you know, because it's a lot of division. It's a lot of dehumanization of people of color. It's a lot of blatant land theft to rip out resources to make somebody really rich and everybody else work really hard. And then you compare indigenous communities, and there's so many amazing values of really being community based, really focusing and making sure that everybody has enough food to eat, really focused on passing down traditions, understanding the respect that it takes to live with our environment and understand that we're a part of the environment and we can find those values across the. Across the world. Because colonization didn't just happen to Native Americans in the United States, because it's everywhere. You know, it's North America, Central America, South America, Africa, India, Southeast Asia, Australia, New Zealand. Everywhere in the world colonization has been. And it's still happening because we're seeing colonization in places like Gaza, Ukraine, Congo, the Amazon. And it's constantly happening still. Like, we've never exited a period of colonization in human history yet.

Chris Duffy (34:52)

One of the things that you're voicing here is that there actually is a solution, and it's a very old solution. It's a way of living that has existed that we need to think more about using those techniques, those skills, that mindset in the future.

Sean Sherman (35:07)

Yeah, I mean, I don't think we're getting a lot smarter as humans. I think we have a lot of challenges in front of us. But I feel like the more that we're able to talk to people on a direct basis, to have real conversations, to get away from the political theater, to get away from all of this noise coming at us, from all these manipulating media that's out there, and just to really focus, like, what do we really need? You know, like, we need clean water, you know, and we're going through water crisis and we need to come up with solutions so we're not just wasting water or giving it all away to corporations so they can stay rich. Like, we need ways to kind of protect some thesis and natural resources. Like, you know, like there's a lot of talk about selling off tons of public lands, which is just a continuation of colonization, just selling off land to make money, just to see it destroyed for whatever resources, whether it's mining or lumber or whatever it might be, but it's just going to leave those areas in disrepair for generations to come, you know, so we really need to focus on like, what do we really need as humans to come together, you know, and we need food, we need water, we need a better understanding of our own education system, and we need to be taught things that matter. And we shouldn't be afraid of diversity. We shouldn't be afraid of people if they're different from us. We should be embracing that diversity and trying to pull it together.

Chris Duffy (36:24)

There's often this real disconnect where people love to eat food from different cultures. They love to go to a restaurant that serves tacos or serves in authentic cuisine from another place. But then they don't love to care for the people who are making that food or the people where the food comes from. And that feels like this really big baffling disconnect to me in this moment. And I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on that.

Sean Sherman (36:57)

It is. But you know, historically and still today, the United States is still highly segregated, and communities intentionally build their own community around themselves, you know, but especially white community has historically kept out a lot of people of color. And they've had a hard time to understand or even find space to like really connect, you know, but like I've lived in Mexico. And when you're just in Mexico, like, sure, there's bad things that happen in every country. There's cartels and there's, you know, political stuff going on. But I feel like when you just learn to talk to people, learn to be with people, you see the beauty in everything, you know, and like, again, it's like touching base with people as a human. And I feel like we need more of that. And food is such a great way to pull us together because food is something we all have in common. Food is something we can always talk about with each other and share with each other. And so I think it's such a powerful language.

Chris Duffy (37:49)

Well, Sean Sherman, thank you so much for being on the show. It's an absolute pleasure.

Sean Sherman (37:52)

Awesome. Well, thank you.

Chris Duffy (37:57)

That is it for today's episode of how to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Sean Sherman. His newest cookbook is called Turtle Foods and Traditions of the Indigenous Peoples of North America. You can find out more about Sean and how to support his work with traditional indigenous food systems@shawnsherman.com or natifs.org that is N A T I F S.org I am your host Chris Duffy and my book Humor Me, which is about how to laugh more every day is available for pre order now. It's my first book and you can find out more about that and all my other projects@chrisduffycomedy.com how to be a Better Human is put together by a tasteful and educated team of audio professionals. On the TED side we've got the healthy nuts and seeds that are Daniela Balorazo, Banban Chang, Michelle Quint, Chloe Shasha Brooks, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lott, Tanzika Singh Manivong, Antonia Ley and Joseph De Bruyne. This episode was fact checked by Julia Dickerson and Matteus Salas who make sure that we are always serving up delicious drinks.

Capital One / Verizon / Advertisement Announcer (38:51)

Truth.

Chris Duffy (38:52)

On the PRX side we've got the five star sound chefs who are Morgan Flannery, Nor Gill, Patrick Grant and Jocelyn Gonzalez. Thanks again to you for listening. You make this show possible. Please share this episode with a person who you would like to share a meal with and we will be back next week with even more how to Be a Better Human. Until then, take care.

Capital One / Verizon / Advertisement Announcer (39:17)

Of this holiday. Verizon is helping you bundle up incredible gifts and savings. You'll get the latest phone with a new line on myplan and a brand new smartwatch and tablet. No trade in needed. Even on our lowest price plan. That's two gifts for your family and one for you. Or two for you and one for someone else. Or three gifts for you and only you. Either way, you save big on three amazing gifts at Verizon, all on the best 5G network. Visit Verizon today. Rankings based on RootMetric Truth Score Report dated 1 2025. Your results may vary. Service plan required for watch and tablet. Additional terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Capital One Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping using self reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks. It doesn't just help buyers find a car they love, it helps schedule a test drive, get pre approved for financing and estimate trade in value. Advanced, intuitive and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One.

Sean Sherman (40:24)

How do more than 100 million Fortnite players join the battle without lag?

Chris Duffy (40:29)

AWS is how epic games scales up to keep them in the action. AWS powers next level innovation for millions of businesses. Business software is expensive and when you buy software from a lot of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing. Slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites and sales to inventory and accounting all linked in talking to each other. Check out odoo@odoo.com that's o d o o dot com.