← How to Be a Better Human
How to Be a Better Human
How to make 2026 a year full of laughs (w/ Chris Duffy and Manoush Zomorodi)
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- [00:00]
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- [00:19]
Chris Duffy
All he talks about.
- [00:20]
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- [00:56]
Chris Duffy
Domestic data roaming at 2G speeds.
- [00:58]
Capital One Advertiser
Additional terms of high for phone offer. See verizon.com for details.
- [01:05]
Chris Duffy
Hi there. This is how to Be a Better Human. I'm Chris Duffy and today on our show we have.
- [01:10]
Minouche Zamorodi
Hey Chris, I can take it from here.
- [01:11]
Chris Duffy
Oh, manoosh. Okay. You.
- [01:12]
Minouche Zamorodi
Yeah, I've so got this. Okay. Hi, you're listening to how to be a Better Human. I'm Minouche Zumarodi and today we are doing something a little different. You might know my voice from my podcast, the TED Radio Hour. I'm a journalist and an author and today I am so honored to be guest hosting how to be a Better Human. If you are along, longtime listener. Even if you're not, I think you are going to love today's episode because today it is Chris Duffy himself who shall be in the how to Be a Better Human hot seats. I am going to grill him on how to be funny because apparently he's learned he's written a entire book about it. Just kidding, Chris. You are very funny. I have known Chris for years now because not only are we both hosts of TED podcasts, we we actually get to hang out several times a year when we go to TED conferences. And let me tell you, when I see this goofy guy coming down the hallway after being surrounded by all the bros, I am so happy to hang out with him. To mock ourselves, to mock all the gluten free options that there are, and to just hang out with Chris. Cause he's such a warm Lovely, kind person who also manages to be funny. It's kind of a gift. So today, though, we're gonna talk about his new book. It is called Humor Me how laughing more can make you present creative, connected and happy. And I think this is particularly important right now because, oh, everything feels a little overwhelming, a lot divisive. And I think we need to remind each other that a simple way to connect is laughter. And Chris gets into the research behind that, how you can tap humor to make yourself laugh, to make those around you laugh and ultimately lead a more fulfilling life to be a better human. Trust me, he has got it all. He also, by the way, if you didn't know, he gave a TED Talk. So let's play a clip of that now.
- [03:13]
Chris Duffy
In my experience, the difference between people with an amazing sense of humor and those without is often just whether they are willing to accept and notice their honest reactions or whether they try their hardest to fit them into a box. And that can shift over time. I saw that shift with my adult improv students at first. When we would do an exercise where they were asked to name seven things in a given category as quickly and creatively as possible, many of them would get stuck. One guy, Rick, a corporate tax lawyer, answered the prompt seven weird types of shoes by saying, brown shoes, white shoes, black shoes, gray shoes. I'm not going to name all the shoes. It was all a lot of boring shoes. You get it? But then after we practiced celebrating our more bizarre thoughts instead of repressing them, Rick eventually came up with a list that included things like shoes covered in mud, shoes covered in gold, shoes covered in the blood of my enemies. Which is like, that's a lot, Rick. Actually, that's a lot. It's really a lot. But it's also definitely more interesting. And I think that's the point when we turn off our self judgment and we just notice the things that stand out to us or that we think we can surprise ourselves in ways that are hilarious and delightful.
- [04:27]
Minouche Zamorodi
So that was Chris on the TED stage. You're gonna wanna stick around because you're gonna hear about the person that brought him back from the brink of losing his sense of humor and how that shaped him as a comedian. All kinds of tips, tricks, and ways to get those around you laughing, and most importantly, get yourself laughing. We'll get to all that and more right after the break.
- [05:06]
Monarch Advertiser
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- [06:09]
BetterHelp Advertiser
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- [07:10]
Chris Duffy
Reggie, I just sold my car online. Let's go, grandpa.
- [07:14]
Capital One Advertiser
Wait, you did?
- [07:15]
Chris Duffy
Yep. On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame. You don't say. Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast. Wow. Way to go. So, about that picture frame. Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested. Car selling made easy on car pick up. These may apply.
- [07:45]
Minouche Zamorodi
Chris, I have to say you are a delightful human being and it is an honor to be here with you.
- [07:54]
Chris Duffy
Wow. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that coming, especially from you Minouche.
- [07:58]
Minouche Zamorodi
Well, I don't say it to a lot of people, because I don't actually like that many people.
- [08:01]
Chris Duffy
I'm aware.
- [08:03]
Minouche Zamorodi
You're aware.
- [08:04]
Chris Duffy
I'm aware that that means a lot coming from you. I don't think you're the kind of person who just says you're a delight.
- [08:09]
Minouche Zamorodi
Okay, good. So now that we've established that you are actually delightful, let's get into what you talk about in your book and you call it the three pillars of Good Humor. Let's go through what is number one.
- [08:21]
Chris Duffy
Okay, so number one is being present and noticing the absurdity and weirdness of the world around you. I think a lot of us walk through the world, like, half paying attention, half on our phone, half thinking about where we need to be. And if you really want to laugh more, if you really want to see the things that are going to make you laugh, you have to actually be there and notice them.
- [08:39]
Minouche Zamorodi
I couldn't agree with this more. I hope this is not out of line, but this happened to me this morning because I noticed that as I was cleaning up after my dog, her spot on her tush, as it were, is argyle.
- [08:57]
Chris Duffy
Wow.
- [08:58]
Minouche Zamorodi
Pattern of Argyll on her on her hole.
- [09:01]
Chris Duffy
That is incredible. Yeah, that's the kind of thing that you don't notice. In fact, your brain trains you to not notice that. And then when you notice it, you can't unsee it.
- [09:09]
Minouche Zamorodi
I was like, oh, look at that. There's a little argyle sweater. Right. Tattooed on your little butt.
- [09:14]
Chris Duffy
I'm so glad that I could be the reason for you to notice that.
- [09:19]
Minouche Zamorodi
Okay, so we're being present, we're noticing weird things around you. I'm having a ball with this already.
- [09:23]
Chris Duffy
Great.
- [09:24]
Minouche Zamorodi
What is number two?
- [09:25]
Chris Duffy
And the second one is being willing to laugh at yourself. So as much as you notice the weirdness and absurdity in the outside world, also being willing to notice the weirdness and absurdity in yourself. And to laugh at it, to not feel like you have to be some sort of, like, perfect, flawless, errorless human exemplar and instead be a regular, messy, error prone, sometimes a bit of a disaster human like everyone else.
- [09:50]
Minouche Zamorodi
Okay, let's. Let's dig into that one a little bit more because I do think that that's hard to do these days because people are constantly trying to, you know, get across this idea that they are competent, they are confident. There's the whole fake it til you make it, sign it sort of thing. So. So talk me through. Like, there must be like a line there between, like, making fun of yourself but also not undercutting yourself.
- [10:16]
Chris Duffy
Well, that Definitely is true. Like, there is a line where you don't want to undercut yourself. And especially it's true depending on, like, what the context that you are making the jokes about yourself are in. Right? Like, if you are the CEO of a company, it's a lot. You got a lot more space to make fun of yourself without, like, undercutting your ability to have a professional career. If you are the entry level person making jokes about how you don't actually know what you're doing, that's probably, like, not gonna make you able to progress in your career very much. And I think there's lots of other types of identities that you might have to be thinking twice about whether you're undercutting yourself or not. And also, like, in general, you just have to think about context and the specific moment and the relationship that you're in whenever you are thinking about humor and laughter. Right. There aren't like one size fits all rules for this. So I do think you want to test out, like, are you undercutting yourself? Are you actually bullying yourself and being mean to yourself and making other people think less of you? But the flip side here is there is so much misguided social pressure, especially in the United States. Like the culture that I live in and that you and I work in, there's so much misguided pressure that makes you think that the way to make people like you, the way to make people be impressed by you, the way to make people think that you are competent is to be flawless, is to have no mistakes and to be impressive. And actually, that is just, like, not true. The way that you make people like you, the way that you make people relate to you, the way that you make people want you to succeed and also think that you're competent is by showing. Showing them the messy human nature of yourself.
- [11:55]
Minouche Zamorodi
Give me an example. Because as a flawless person, I find that very difficult to understand. Chris. So whatever do you mean?
- [12:03]
Chris Duffy
It's so hard because so few of us are minouche. Like, if you were. If we were all minouche, this wouldn't be true. Then we would just be like, well, we are perfect, so why would we have a problem?
- [12:12]
Minouche Zamorodi
Yes, I can't mock myself. It's.
- [12:14]
Chris Duffy
It's impossible.
- [12:15]
Minouche Zamorodi
I'm here, I look in the mirror.
- [12:17]
Chris Duffy
And I see the a. Perfection. So why would I have a problem? You know, for the rest of us, though, what happens is there's a study that a team of psychologists did, and they were looking at job applicants and they had research assistants pretend to be applying for a job. And then they had regular people rate them as like, do you think we should hire this person? How much did you like this person? How competent did they seem? And what they found is that people who were competent and had the job qualifications were obviously rated more highly. Okay, yeah, but the people who are rated the highest were. The people who were competent, had the right qualifications, were good at the job, and had just poured a cup of coffee on themselves accidentally. So the person who says, oh, my gosh, I just spilled coffee all over myself. I'm so sorry. I have this giant stain on my shirt. But then they also had all the skills. People liked them more than the person who had all the skills and hadn't spilled coffee on themselves.
- [13:09]
Minouche Zamorodi
Because they're relatable.
- [13:10]
Chris Duffy
They're relatable. Right. Like, if you just think about this in your own life, right? If someone comes up to you and they're like, hi, actually, I just sold my company for $10 million, and also, I volunteer six days a week, and my son is going to Harvard. And by the way, I just bought my father a really thoughtful gift that I've been making. And I also work out all the time, and, you know, I just am, like, kind of loved by everyone. That person probably is, like, at the bare minimum, intimidating to you, and more likely very annoying. You're probably, like, insufferable, actually.
- [13:48]
Minouche Zamorodi
Yes. Yeah. Whereas if he was like, oh, never mind this white patch on my fleece vest. My baby just barfed on me.
- [13:56]
Chris Duffy
My baby just barfed on me. And I thought it was Thursday, and it turns out it's Tuesday, but I am here. That is a person who you have so much more ability to connect with. And so I think that, like, we think that you want to be the flawless, super accomplished person. And in reality, we don't like that person very much. We want to be friends with the other person, and we actually even want to hire that other person, too.
- [14:17]
Minouche Zamorodi
Is it almost like you're breaking the fourth wall? In a way? It's like life is but a stage and, like. But actually, we're all losers here. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, we're in on it together. In some ways, it's creating that sort of intimacy.
- [14:32]
Chris Duffy
Totally. I mean, the reason why I love laughter and the reason why I think, like, humor and comedy are so delightful and so important is because when you're laughing really hard, when there are, like, tears streaming down from your eyes and your sides are hurting, you are so in it with that other person. You are Perfectly in the moment. You are so connected, and you are not half there. You're not, like, kind of on your phone, checking email and kind of talking to them. You are just in it with them. And I think that this ability to say, like, oh, you get it, you get it, and you get me, and we're on the same page, we both understand. That's such a powerful, incredible feeling. And I think that the more that we can have that in our lives, the better our lives are gonna be.
- [15:19]
Minouche Zamorodi
In fact, you dedicate your book to the little snort.
- [15:22]
Chris Duffy
That's right.
- [15:22]
Minouche Zamorodi
That people make when they. Yeah, totally. Like, I love it when that happens. You're just like, everything is. It's all gonna be fine.
- [15:30]
Chris Duffy
It's so good, right? I mean, it just means, like, no one ever makes that little laugh snort when they're not having a good time. Truly, one of my best memories of all time is walking with my friends. I think I was probably in, like, sixth grade, and we're walking down the street after we left school, and we were just, like, drinking our little juice. Juices or whatever, and trying to make each other, like, laugh through the nose. And us succeeding a few times. And I just remember, like, that is pure joy, right? It's just like you and your friends.
- [15:56]
Minouche Zamorodi
Burning sensation through your nasal pads, giving.
- [15:59]
Chris Duffy
Yourself, like, a sinus rinse with orange juice. That is. That's the greatest thing that can happen in a lifetime.
- [16:05]
Minouche Zamorodi
Okay. Number three.
- [16:06]
Chris Duffy
Okay. So the third pillar is putting yourself out there, is taking social risks. And, you know, it's certainly possible to laugh and to have a delightful comedic experience all on your own. But so much of the way that laughter works is social. So much of it is, like, it's with another person or with a group of people. And so the really important thing here is to take yourself, to be willing to be laughed at, like we talked about in pillar two. And then to. To go out and apply that, to, like, put yourself out there to try and actually connect with other people. Using humor. A way that you could think about it is, like, when you have a conversation with someone, to not immediately feel like the only things you can. This is, to me, the, like, lowest bar of taking social risk is if I have a conversation with someone, to not just go, like, so, crazy weather. Hey, so where do you live and how long have you been there?
- [17:01]
BetterHelp Advertiser
Right?
- [17:01]
Chris Duffy
Like, to ask them instead to say, like, hey, on the way here, I noticed a dog that was wearing a top hat. Did you know that they sell hats for dogs? Like, that's a very Small social risk to just like point out something odd that you have noticed and ask the other person about it. To give them like a chance to have fun with you, to start laughing and to riff with someone else. And another one is like, a lot of us in our day to day lives, like if you see something that is odd or someone invites you to something that's like, you know, like the other day someone said, hey, it's the holiday season. Do you want to go to a free event where they play Christmas carols? But they're every single instrument is the tuba. It's a hundred tubas playing Christmas carols. And I was like, yes, we have to go to that tuba Christmas. I gotta see it. But I think there's a lot of pressure to be like, no, that sounds weird. I don't play the tuba. Right?
- [17:52]
Minouche Zamorodi
Like, no, I'm with you. The weirder the better.
- [17:54]
Chris Duffy
Yeah. So that even can be a social risk. Just like going somewhere that's a little outside of your normal day to day experience. Going to an event that is odd or strange or might be not fun, like that can be a social risk too.
- [18:07]
Minouche Zamorodi
Okay, I'm gonna give you an example of this one. This was, I recently went away for a weekend with eight other moms who I've known for. We're not like besties or anything like that, but we're just like this cohort. And one of the moms was like, you know what, let's get out of here, let's go to Vermont. We have this place, we just renovated it. Let's go hang out there.
- [18:28]
Chris Duffy
Love that.
- [18:28]
Minouche Zamorodi
So we did, but then we get there and Chris, she's like, so over there are all the sleds.
- [18:35]
Chris Duffy
I was like, what?
- [18:37]
Minouche Zamorodi
She's like, oh, yeah. So nine middle aged ladies with no kids hurling themselves down this hill for hours. And I ate it, Chris.
- [18:50]
Chris Duffy
Oh yeah.
- [18:50]
Minouche Zamorodi
And I have never laughed. Well, no, I have laughed that hard, but not in a really long time. And that was a risk. And I made a total jerk of myself and it was great.
- [19:03]
Chris Duffy
Oh, that's such a good example. I love that so much. Right? Like it would have been so easy for her to not suggest that because like, what if I think it's weird? And it would have also been really easy for you to say like, no, I don't want to do that. Cause what if I look silly or ridiculous?
- [19:16]
Minouche Zamorodi
All nine of us were into it.
- [19:18]
Chris Duffy
Yeah, when you do that, when you take the risk, it pays off. So I mean, that's the kind of thing where I Think, like, especially as I, as I get older, it's like time passes so fast that all of a sudden you're like, was that 2022 or was that 2026? And like, these kinds of experiences, these like, big moments where you're laughing so hard they stand out more than like the big expensive or difficult ones. Right. Like, you could go to a really fancy meal and it wouldn't necessarily be like a flag planted in time. And yet the sledding is. You're gonna remember that forever.
- [19:50]
Minouche Zamorodi
We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back after this with more with Chris Duffy.
- [20:12]
Chris Duffy
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- [20:32]
Minouche Zamorodi
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- [20:34]
Chris Duffy
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- [20:35]
Minouche Zamorodi
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- [20:36]
Chris Duffy
Months or $180 for 12 month plan taxes and fees.
- [20:39]
Minouche Zamorodi
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- [20:41]
Capital One Advertiser
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- [21:02]
Chris Duffy
All he talks about.
- [21:03]
Capital One Advertiser
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- [21:14]
Chris Duffy
Hey, Sal.
- [21:15]
Minouche Zamorodi
Hank.
- [21:16]
Chris Duffy
What's going on? We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Havana and it was so easy. Too easy. Think something's up? You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed. Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.
- [21:48]
Minouche Zamorodi
We're back. Let's keep talking to Chris Duffy. So you are now an author of a book about humor. You've given a TED talk about humor, but you open the book with a story about the fact that you kind of lost your sense of humor for a little while there. And there was a very special fella who brought it back for you? Can you tell us that story? Because I love that you included pictures also in the book.
- [22:18]
Chris Duffy
I was teaching fifth grade, and it was a job that I really liked and cared about, but I was also, like. It was. And, you know, it was intense. I was dealing with a lot of, you know, societal issues that. That come up in the classroom because your kids are dealing with stuff. And I wasn't laughing a lot. I was kind of, like, beating myself up at the end of the day that I wasn't doing enough or good enough. And then I would come home and there'd be so much work to do, and I was just in a. In a very. Not very fun rut. And then one of my students, this kid Gary, who is the single funniest person that I've ever met in my life, I was trying to figure out a way to get him to write more, and he came up with this idea that he would be the food critic for the school newspaper, and he would review cafeteria food. And his cafeteria food reviews are, like, to this day, the funniest things that I've ever read. Like, I've literally performed these out loud. Just read them verbatim to audiences around the country, and they always crush. I don't even. Literally, all I do is read his reviews, and people are like, that's the process.
- [23:20]
Minouche Zamorodi
Gary. License them to you.
- [23:21]
Chris Duffy
Gary knows that I do this. He's given me his permission. He literally signed a release form. And also, Gary's now, because of the way time works, Gary's now, like, a full adult man with a job, which is bizarre.
- [23:31]
Minouche Zamorodi
Gary.
- [23:32]
Chris Duffy
But, yeah, he would. He. The thing that was great is, like, Gary would use kind of the language of food criticism, but would be applying it to, like, a vegetarian hot dog in the tray with baked beans.
- [23:43]
BetterHelp Advertiser
And.
- [23:43]
Chris Duffy
And he would say things like, my server was very nice and generous. I imagine she was probably embarrassed to be serving this. 0 out of 5 stars. And he also used, like, he would come up with these kind of similes that were, like, you would never have expected, where he was like, the pizza comes out of the oven, and it smells like when you've borrowed your sister's shampoo and used it in the shower. Like, the fact that she's using, like, special pepperoni scent of Pantene Pro V. Pert. Yeah, pert Pepperoni. But it's just, you know, so funny. And I think there were several reasons why it was so funny. One is just like, these were his actual unfiltered, genuine opinions, but also, it's just. It's the kind of. Kind of thing that I had never thought of. Right. Like, I never thought too much about the food that they were serving and, like, the actual, like, flavor profile and texture and presentation. And it's so fun to have that go from kind of like a blurred background image into, like, sharp focus. And, yeah, Gary is just hilarious. And it really was one of those things where I came home and read that to my wife. I read that to all my friends, and we were just truly, like, tears rolling down our faces.
- [24:52]
Minouche Zamorodi
So did Gary, like, really spark something, like, new in you? Like, that you felt like had sort of was dying and, like.
- [25:03]
Chris Duffy
Yeah.
- [25:03]
Minouche Zamorodi
Did Gary save your life, Chris?
- [25:05]
Chris Duffy
You know, I'm not sure I go that far, but I do think that, like, I'm not even sure it's something new. I think it was something that I had lost. And I actually think this is a part that is not just me. I think a lot of people have this where when we're kids, we so are naturally in touch with, like, creativity and humor and laughter and, like, play and being silly. And then when we grow up, a lot of what we are told, like, growing up is supposed to be, is, like, getting serious, stop laughing, stop being a goofball. And I just really found, like, I did not, like, the all serious version of myself. It was not fun, it was not sustainable. And, like, being with him and being reminded of, like, that goofiness, of the ability to, like, look at any situation and find something hilarious about it, to me, that's like, that is the point of life. And also, you know, to be really honest with you, it's funny to be talking about this right now and for this book to be coming out and me to be, like, doing these interviews, because I honestly have been in a period of my life where it's like. It's ironic that I'm selling humor because I have been in one of these periods where it's just like, I have a new baby, I'm not getting enough sleep, there's so much work to do. I'm overwhelmed. And I have kind of.
- [26:27]
Minouche Zamorodi
The world is a rather stressful place.
- [26:30]
Chris Duffy
Yes. And the world outside, I don't know if you've checked, but it's not fantastic.
- [26:34]
Minouche Zamorodi
No.
- [26:35]
Chris Duffy
So I have really been in this place where, like, honestly, I hadn't been laughing a lot in the last couple months, and I had been feeling like, oh, no. And just, like, the weight of the world and then having to look at my own, you know, lessons, having to practice what I Preach a little bit.
- [26:53]
Minouche Zamorodi
Yeah.
- [26:53]
Chris Duffy
Using some of the stuff from this book I'm reminded of, like. Yeah, like, it's not laughing for me. And I think, for what I hope is true for other people is, like, if you can do it when you don't already feel good, it actually makes a way bigger difference than when you already feel good and you laugh.
- [27:11]
Minouche Zamorodi
For me, when I had kids, I also had terrible postpartum depression. But the benefit was that it cleared out my filter. Benefit to me. Maybe not for the rest of the world, but I now see things and just sort of appreciate them in a weird. Maybe that's just growing up and growing into yourself and feeling more confident or being too tired to give a crap about what anyone thinks. But I started sharing more of my, like, just mutterings to myself, but also things that I saw. And you're right. Like, it just sort of eased my relationship with the world. My favorite moment is when you have, like, a kid is screaming on the sidewalk or. Or, like, somebody's, like, driving crazy, and you look over and there's somebody walking past, and you share, like, eye contact and keep walking. I'm like, we just were like, the hell is that? I know, man. And then they just keep going. You're not friends.
- [28:13]
Chris Duffy
Yes.
- [28:13]
Minouche Zamorodi
You're just humans in the world having a moment.
- [28:16]
Chris Duffy
I feel like that is, like. Yeah, that's incredible. The connection where you two are, like, I both see this wild thing. Okay, here we go. And I just think that, like, I don't think we give enough credit to, like, those little passing moments of connection and laughter with someone else as being something that really makes life worth living.
- [28:36]
Minouche Zamorodi
Can I read a quote that I wrote down from your book?
- [28:39]
Chris Duffy
I would love that.
- [28:40]
Minouche Zamorodi
A good sense of humor is inherently generous, Italicized generous. And I guess I hadn't really thought of it that way. I feel like it keeps me going in this day in this crazy world. But what do you mean by that?
- [28:54]
Chris Duffy
A mistake that people make when they think about what having a sense of humor is. And I think a lot of people think it's, like, about. Pay attention to me. I'm the center of attention. I'm making a joke, and you're all laughing and, wow, that guy's hilarious. And I think that, like, we don't need more of that. That's not really what I would consider to be a good sense of humor. I think a good sense of humor is when you and the people around you are all laughing and you're having a great time together. So, like, often having A great sense of humor might just mean that you are laughing at and paying attention to the really funny things that the person around you is saying. Right. Like you said, you have these mutterings, and they're really funny. Someone with a great sense of humor is going to cherish those mutterings. They don't have to be the one making the muttering. And I think that's what I mean about it. Being generous is like you are giving your time and attention and your presence 100% to this other person, and you're making it so that we are all having fun together. That is what a good sense of humor is.
- [29:49]
Minouche Zamorodi
There's a statistic that you cite, which I can't remember what the exact numbers were, but it made me laugh because you said that most people say that humor in their partner, or if they're looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever spouse, that humor is the most important thing. But then you specified that women say somebody who makes me laugh, and that men usually say someone who thinks I'm funny. And that made me laugh really hard because I've just heard that so many times that, like, I really liked her. She laughed at all my jokes. Right.
- [30:25]
Chris Duffy
I mean, look, there's no denying that it feels really good when you make a joke and someone laughs at it. That's great. But the idea that, like, when people were asked if they said that a sense of humor was a really important part for them and a partner, and that when they asked straight women about it, they said it means that someone who. We laugh together. And when straight men were asked, they said it means someone who laughs at my jokes. And I'm like, yeah, that's. You're missing something there. You're missing an important piece, my brothers. And we need to clarify that that is not actually, like, the biggest part of humor. That it is the more generous, communal part, not just the. I'm the one getting attention. And I think there's a lot of pressure in this society. There is to be, like, everyone should have an audience. That everyone should be, like, building their personal brand. And it should be all about, like, getting as much focus on you. And I would like to push back on that and say that that's actually not the ideal.
- [31:16]
Minouche Zamorodi
That brings me to when, after you do find your special someone and a story that you tell with your partner, Molly, where it's not. It doesn't start off well. Chris, you're talking about chronic illness and pain that Molly was going through. Not a lot of fun.
- [31:33]
Chris Duffy
No.
- [31:34]
Minouche Zamorodi
But there was a moment that you Just had to laugh and talk about that section in the book where you explain, like, how to use humor with grief and with. When you're going through some of your toughest periods in your life.
- [31:50]
Chris Duffy
For me, personally, one of the, like, magical parts of humor and laughter is the way that it can take a tense situation and relieve the tension, kind of, like, wipe it clean and help you to kind of see things from in a fresh way. The hardest laughs and the ones that, like, mean the most are when you're in a situation that's really not funny, but, like, oh, it feels so good to, like, puncture that. So for me, you know, there was this period of time where my wife, Molly, was. Was really in pain and not feeling good and was really struggling. And she was struggling both mentally and physically. And it was, without a doubt, the worst period of my life and her life and both of our lives. But even in that moment, there was, like, a tiny glimpse every once in a while where something would happen that would be funny and it would, like, puncture the tension for a moment. And so one of those times was, you know, anyone who knows me, and certainly anyone who's even listened to this podcast for one episode, knows that I like to talk. I like to talk, and I'm a very extroverted person. And Molly had this idea at one point that, like, maybe, like, the solution for me that's going to make me feel better is if I go to, like, live at a silent meditation retreat. And I said, like, well, I really don't feel like you are in a position where, like, I can let you go live somewhere off the grid, like, all alone. I need to be able to get in contact with you because you're. You're not really. You're not feeling well. You're not really independent right now. And she was like, no, no, no. You would come with me, too. And the idea that I was going to, like, move off the grid to a silent meditation retreat when things were already really hard, I was just like, you're going to take away the only thing that I have left, which is yapping. You can't take away my yapping. And I just. The idea of us, even her in that really, like, struggling moment, even. Even for her, the idea of me being at a silent meditation retreat really, like, made us both laugh so much. So we're imagining me, like, trying to communicate with just my eyes or with, like, moving the bowl in a funny way. But. But I think that it also is kind of the thing where it gave me a little Bit of energy and ability to just get through the day. And I think that that is really. When you're in these really tough times, being able to laugh a little bit can allow you to just survive it. It's not actually about solving the problem, but it is about changing your experience of the problem for a brief amount of time.
- [34:24]
Minouche Zamorodi
Yeah, I mean, I didn't laugh at the time, but, boy, did I have fun telling my husband the story. So he was in a terrible bike crash, and he called me from the ambulance and was like, can you bring my wallet to the hospital? I was like, okay. And then I get there, and he's, like, a mess. I was like, can you bring my wallet? Like, really? That was the first. Can you bring my wallet? I think I hurt my shoes. He ended up being in the ICU for five days. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
- [35:02]
Chris Duffy
But he could use the vending machine time.
- [35:04]
Minouche Zamorodi
Yeah, well, good point. Exactly. I have your insurance card and $1.50 to hit myself up with those sour cream and onion potato chips. Get me through the day. Yeah, no, it's just those little moments where you're like, whoa, life is weird.
- [35:22]
Chris Duffy
Yes. I've been in this, like, intense period. And, like, you know, one of the things is it's just hard to connect with your partner when there's so much to do. And I think, like, the classic early parenting thing is, like, we're just ships trading off in the night. Like, you know, we're. We're just handling logistics together, and that has been a real challenge. And then, okay, well, what is something that helps us? And it was like, sometimes if we can just be together for, like, 30 seconds and find something to laugh about, we're going to feel so much more connected. We used to do that all the time. That used to be, like, every night we do that, and it's really fun. And then things busy, and it was bad. It was, like, not an easy time. So then we stopped doing the thing that was helpful, and we just did it for the first time, like, a few nights ago, where we were like, okay, the kids are asleep. There's more things to be cleaned, and there's laundry to be done. But let's just pause for 30 seconds and sit on the couch and you show me one thing that you found over the last couple of weeks that made you laugh. And, like, she showed me a text message from some college friends. I showed her a video that I found on social media. It was probably, like, 45 seconds total, and both of us, though, like, laughed together, and it was Incredible. What a difference it was before and after in terms of, like, our connection, in terms of, like, how the day felt, in terms of what it felt like to be in the moment. So I'm trying really hard to remember that in my own life, though. Like, this works for me.
- [36:40]
Minouche Zamorodi
All right, so you spend a lot of time on this show, as I do, getting experts to explain themselves and share their innermost research. Well, innermost research. Innermost research for Ted Way. Innermost research. Innermost feelings. You deal with a lot of feelings, too, but you don't get to show off enough, Chris. So I'm gonna just open the floor to you. Like, what do you want from this book? It is gonna. It's something that you're presenting to the world at a time when things do feel, well, on fire, frankly, literally and figuratively. And, like, what is your biggest hope with the book?
- [37:24]
Chris Duffy
Yeah, I hope people other than my mom and dad read it. So that's my biggest hope.
- [37:29]
Minouche Zamorodi
Well, it's great. So if you're listening, do read it. It is like, hanging out with you, basically.
- [37:34]
Chris Duffy
Thank you.
- [37:34]
Minouche Zamorodi
For about 200 pages.
- [37:35]
Chris Duffy
Well, I already have accomplished my wildest dream, which is my mom and dad and Minouche read it. So there you go.
- [37:42]
Minouche Zamorodi
Yeah.
- [37:42]
Chris Duffy
I mean, my real deep answer is I've hosted How to Be a Better Human for this is our sixth year of the show, and people a lot of times ask, like, what have you learned about how to be a better human? And I often just, like, play that off with a joke of being, like, I have not learned very much. A lot of people on this show really have figured it out. I haven't figured anything out. Like, 12 people have told me to not sleep with my cell phone in my bedroom, and, boy, do I still sleep with my cell phone in my bedroom. But, like, I do think that one of the things that has come up over and over in the course of doing this show and over and over in my life is how important it is to just be able to see the lightness, even when there is dark around. I think there's this to push back on the idea that if you laugh, if you have fun, if you are experiencing a moment of joy, that that means that you're denying the bad parts of the world the parts that are on fire, as opposed to. And this is what I really believe is that this is how we tackle the bad parts of the world. This is how we have the energy and the desire and the will to actually, like, make the world a better place and to work on the hard things in ourselves is by, like, laughing and connecting with other people and making them fun.
- [38:58]
BetterHelp Advertiser
Right?
- [38:58]
Chris Duffy
Like, people don't like to do, like, hard, painful things 24 7. And you can actually make a lot more progress if you can make it fun and funny and delightful. And I think that actually is possible. And, you know, like you said, and there's a classic comedy equation for this, which is that, like, tragedy plus time equals comedy. So, like, even the hardest things, if we get a little bit of space from them, we can look back and we can laugh and we can see some elements of absurdity in them. What I hope is, is that this book allows people to find some really practical ways to laugh more in their life and to use that laughter to tackle the hard stuff.
- [39:37]
Minouche Zamorodi
Can I just say, I love the idea of you ending the show or signing off from the show saying, like, I'm Chris Duffy and I am now the best human. And therefore, my work is done here.
- [39:51]
Chris Duffy
Thank you so much. How to be a better Human. And once again, I've confirmed I am the better human. Thank you and good night. Better than you. That is always my number one qualm about the show is being like, I host a show called how to Be a Better Human. Always, like, immediate disclaimer. That's not me. I'm not the better human.
- [40:09]
Minouche Zamorodi
Okay, one question I had to end here. Do you have a New Year's resolution?
- [40:17]
Chris Duffy
You know, I try, and instead of, like, having, like, a workout more type resolution, I've been trying to have, like, a list of things that are, like, actions that I can complete and then, like, a theme for the year. Okay.
- [40:31]
Minouche Zamorodi
Wow. Okay.
- [40:32]
Chris Duffy
This past year was. Was for me was. Was faith. And not necessarily, like, religious faith, although it could be that it was more about, like, I don't have to understand how these things will work for them to work. Like, I'm gonna have another kid. I am putting out this book into the world. I am, like, in a time of uncertainty. It doesn't have to be clear to me what this will look like. And that was a really helpful one. And so my one for this next year is like. Is awe. Is to, like, step into things that are bigger than myself. And so, like, one, like, I would like to feel that. I would like to feel awe, but I also just want it to remember, like, you are a tiny. It's easy when you're doing things to be like, I'm the most important person. Like, it's all about me. And I want to just be like, you're just a Little speck. And that's cool. It's okay to be a little speck, and that's cool. Yeah. And then, you know, my. My actual, like, things that are on my resolutions list are like, I want to send my newsletter every week. I want to have recorded 30 episodes of the show. Like, they're, like, things that I can kind of check off. And then I always have. There's ones that I, like, I have failed to accomplish from another year that I just try and roll over.
- [41:42]
Minouche Zamorodi
So, like, you just roll them over.
- [41:43]
Chris Duffy
You're like, three years in a row, I've been like, submit an essay to Modern Love in the New York Times. And, boy, it's not that I'm even getting rejected. It's that I'm never submitting. And I get. At some point, we'll submit an essay to them.
- [41:55]
Minouche Zamorodi
Okay. So the theme and then bullet points that you can actually achieve, and then occasional aspirational things that it's okay if they roll over.
- [42:02]
Chris Duffy
Yeah.
- [42:02]
Minouche Zamorodi
That's your approach. I love that so much. I'm gonna work on that one. I think our work is done here.
- [42:08]
Chris Duffy
Thank you so much, Minouche. It has been a real pleasure to be interviewed and to be in such a capable interviewer's hands.
- [42:16]
Minouche Zamorodi
Oh, my pleasure. Well, I'm taking over the show now, Chris.
- [42:18]
Chris Duffy
Oh, well, that does make it harder for me to accomplish one of my goals for this year, but that's okay.
- [42:26]
Minouche Zamorodi
That's it for this episode of how to be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Chris Duffy. He's also the host of the show. By the way, his book is called Humor Me How Laughing More can make you present Creative, connected, and happy. I'm Anoush Zamorodi. I usually host the TED Radio Hour. You can find me there or on Instagram Anushz, where I do try to make people laugh occasionally. You'll tell me if I succeed ever. On the TED side, the team includes Daniela Bellorezzo, Banban Chang, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lott, and Tansika Sumani. The prx team includes Morgan Flannery, Nor Gill, Patrick Grant, and Jocelyn Gonzalez. Thank you again so much for listening. Tune in next week for more how to be a Better Human and your regularly scheduled programming and host. Until then, take care.
- [43:28]
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Chris Duffy
If.
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- [45:13]
Minouche Zamorodi
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