Podcast Summary: How to Make Every Job a Good Job (w/ Zeynep Ton)

Podcast Information:

• Title: How to Be a Better Human
• Host: Chris Duffy, TED
• Episode: How to Make Every Job a Good Job (w/ Zeynep Ton)
• Release Date: November 11, 2024
• Guest: Zeynep Ton, Professor at MIT Sloan, President of the Good Jobs Institute

Introduction to Good Jobs

[07:35]
Chris Duffy opens the episode by introducing the concept of a "good job" and its profound impact on individuals and society. He emphasizes that having a good job not only improves one's personal life but also contributes to the betterment of the world.

[07:35] Zeynep Ton:
“Hi, my name is Zeynep Ton. I'm an operations professor at MIT Sloan, co-founder and president of the nonprofit Good Jobs Institute, and the author of The Case for Good Jobs.”

Defining a Good Job

[07:50] Zeynep Ton:
“A good job has to have the minimum condition of giving enough pay so we can have agency in our lives. Because when people don't make enough, regardless of how meaningful the job is, how much sense of belonging we feel you can't put food on the table, so that's not a good job. So at a minimum, have agency in our lives by having good pay, good schedules, and career paths. And of course, a good job also has some higher needs that are filled, which is a sense of belonging, meaningfulness, and a sense of achievement.”

• Key Components of a Good Job:
  • Adequate Pay: Ensures financial stability and personal agency.
  • Stable Schedules: Provides predictability and work-life balance.
  • Career Paths: Opportunities for growth and advancement.
  • Sense of Belonging and Meaningfulness: Fosters engagement and satisfaction.
  • Achievement: Offers a sense of accomplishment and contribution.

[08:26] Zeynep Ton:
“It’s surprising how many people have bad jobs because their pay is so low. Just that basic condition is not met... 53 million Americans... had jobs that were low wage jobs with the median pay of less than $20,000 a year.”

Prevalence of Bad Jobs

[08:21]
Chris and Zeynep discuss the alarming number of low-wage jobs in America, particularly in service industries like retail, hospitality, and food service. These jobs often come with unstable schedules and insufficient pay, making them detrimental to workers' well-being.

[09:18] Zeynep Ton:
“Workers in lower wage parts of the economy... low pay hurts their physical... mental health... even affects their cognitive functioning.”

Challenging Common Assumptions

[09:44] Chris Duffy:
“There’s often this narrative that service industry jobs are inherently bad. Your research shows that many of these jobs could be good jobs with the right conditions.”

[09:44] Zeynep Ton:
“The trade-off between good pay and low prices is a false trade-off. Companies often save money by underpaying workers, but this leads to higher costs in other areas like turnover and training.”

Case Study: Costco

[10:40]
Chris highlights Costco as a prime example of a company that successfully offers good jobs while maintaining profitability.

[11:08] Zeynep Ton:
“Jim Sinegal... from the beginning started paying workers so much more than other retailers. He says it's not altruism, it's good business. 70 cents of every dollar they spend to run their company goes to people.”

• Key Takeaways from Costco’s Approach:
  • Competitive Pay: Ensures employee satisfaction and retention.
  • Employee Empowerment: Workers can make decisions that improve customer service without excessive oversight.
  • Operational Efficiency: Investing in employees reduces mistakes and enhances overall productivity.

Empowerment and Autonomy in the Workplace

[12:29] Zeynep Ton:
“At Costco, employees are empowered to make decisions that benefit the customer, such as restocking items or addressing customer issues without needing managerial approval.”

[14:20] Zeynep Ton:
“Low pay doesn’t just affect financial stability; it impacts health, cognitive function, and overall quality of life. Managers often misinterpret these effects as a lack of work ethic or responsibility.”

Overcoming Cynicism and Promoting Change

[23:36] Zeynep Ton:
“There is pervasive cynicism among customers, employees, and even CEOs about the current state of work. However, examples like Sam's Club demonstrate that positive change is possible.”

[23:36]
Zeynep shares the transformation at Sam's Club under CEO John Furner, who implemented higher wages and stable schedules, leading to improved employee satisfaction and business performance.

Role of Different Organizational Levels

For CEOs and Executives:

• Understand that investing in frontline employees leads to better customer service and business outcomes.
• Shift focus from short-term financial metrics to long-term value creation through employee well-being.

For Middle Managers: [30:03] Zeynep Ton:
“Think about how your decisions affect frontline employees and their ability to have a balanced life and serve customers effectively.”

For Frontline Workers:

• While individual power is limited, collective actions like unionization can play a role in advocating for better conditions.
• Engage with leadership to provide feedback and suggest improvements.

Government and Business Collaboration

[32:22] Zeynep Ton:
“Both government interventions, like higher minimum wages and better scheduling laws, and business initiatives are necessary to create good jobs. Companies must demonstrate that higher pay does not harm their business but can enhance customer satisfaction and profitability.”

Creating Meaning Beyond the Job

[37:36] Zeynep Ton:
“Customers can support good jobs by choosing to spend their money at companies that treat their employees well. Additionally, simple acts of kindness and recognition can make workers feel valued and visible.”

[38:20] Zeynep Ton:
“Introduce yourself beyond your job title. Emphasize your personal life and relationships to foster a more holistic view of individuals beyond their employment roles.”

Closing Thoughts and Optimism for the Future

[27:04] Chris Duffy:
Chris reflects on the importance of empowering employees to improve their work environment, highlighting how operational excellence can bridge gaps between companies and their competitors.

[Zeynep Ton]:
Expresses optimism that more companies will follow the example of Costco and Sam's Club, leading to a more functional and equitable society.

Notable Quotes

• Zeynep Ton on Good Jobs:

  • [07:50] “A good job has to have the minimum condition of giving enough pay so we can have agency in our lives.”
  • [09:44] “The trade-off between good pay and low prices is a false trade-off.”

• Costco’s Philosophy:

  • [11:08] “Jim Sinegal... started paying workers so much more than other retailers. It’s good business.”

• On Employee Empowerment:

  • [12:29] “You’re empowered to place the merchandise in ways that are best for your customer.”

• Addressing Cynicism:

  • [23:36] “If we created more places like Costco, then we would have a much better functioning society.”

• Role of Government and Business:

  • [32:22] “Companies need to show that higher pay doesn’t ruin their business. Higher pay can be quite beneficial for customers and their bottom line.”

Conclusion

In this enlightening episode of How to Be a Better Human, Chris Duffy and Zeynep Ton delve deep into the elements that constitute a good job and the systemic changes required to transform bad jobs into good ones. Through compelling examples like Costco and Sam's Club, they illustrate that investing in employees is not only ethically sound but also economically advantageous. The conversation underscores the importance of collaborative efforts between businesses, government, and individuals to create a more equitable and fulfilling workforce.

Listeners are encouraged to support businesses that prioritize their employees' well-being, engage in meaningful interactions with frontline workers, and advocate for policies that ensure fair wages and stable working conditions. By fostering environments where employees feel valued and empowered, society can take significant strides toward improving lives and building a better future for all.