Podcast Summary: "How to make social risks pay off"

Podcast: How to Be a Better Human
Host: Chris Duffy (TED)
Guest: Ben Swire (Founder of Make Believe Works, author of Safe Danger)
Date: January 26, 2026

Overview

In this episode, comedian and host Chris Duffy explores the discomfort and payoff of taking social and creative risks, drawing insights from designer Ben Swire and his new book, Safe Danger. The conversation uncovers how embracing “safe danger”—a state where security and stretch coexist—can spark deeper human connection, innovation, and fun within teams, families, and ourselves. The episode is packed with practical exercises, surprising facilitation tips, and a celebration of vulnerability, trust, and the transformative role of humor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining “Safe Danger” (04:27–06:25)

• Opposites as Dance Partners:
  Ben describes “safety” and “danger” not as opposites, but as "dance partners."

  "Safety gives us sort of solid footing and danger gives us movement... Safe Danger is the emotional sweet spot where people feel secure enough to leave security behind but still stretched enough to grow."
  (Ben Swire, 04:45)

• Applicability: While initially designed for corporate workshops, Swire explains that safe danger is useful for anyone “ready for something new but afraid to rock the boat”—from teams at work to families at home.

2. The Value of Authentic Human Connection (06:25–09:45)

• Cutting Through Small Talk:
  Swire shares an impactful exercise: participants reflect on someone pivotal in their journey, express it with words and images, then share stories with others.

  “…what they're really sharing are their own sense of values and purpose and who they hope to be...”
  (Ben Swire, 06:45)

• Deeper Trust at Work:
  Genuine personal connection at work fosters trust, making it safer to share ideas, ask for help, and make mistakes—key for creativity and innovation, versus workplaces that reward only for visible achievement.

3. Re-examining Comfort, Safety, and Danger (09:45–10:56)

• Comfort vs. True Safety:
  Chris underscores a striking passage from Safe Danger:

  “A lot of what we perceive as safety actually can be quite dangerous...you can get stuck in a situation because it's the safe thing to do.”
  (Chris Duffy, 09:45)

• Swire elaborates that “real safety is when people can stand out and still belong,” not just fit in.

4. The Power of Asking “Why?” (10:56–12:50)

• The Five Whys Exercise:
  Addressing the layers beneath assumptions and initial answers, Swire encourages repetitive inquiry to uncover deeper motivations:

  “You don't get that [innovation] from the answers that everybody knows. You get it from asking the questions no one thought to ask.”
  (Ben Swire, 11:34)

5. Rethinking Icebreakers & Group Activities (12:50–15:26)

• Beyond Superficial Fun:
  Typical icebreakers often fail to create real connection. Swire insists on making activities meaningful for all personality types, ensuring vulnerability is both safe and accessible:

  "The goal...is that everybody can get vulnerable without feeling threatened or intimidated, and that everyone can feel seen without worrying about being judged."
  (Ben Swire, 14:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On company culture as a design problem:

  “One of the big pieces...that they weren't willing to address...was actually how they rewarded people. They wanted people to take more risks...but they still rewarded them only for successes.”
  (Ben Swire, 20:06)

• On conversations vs. compliments in facilitation:

  “Leading with curiosity instead of judgment allows everyone to feel equally valued, equally seen, equally loved.”
  (Ben Swire, quoting Safe Danger, 27:59)

  • Instead of saying “great job,” Swire suggests facilitators should probe with curiosity (“Tell me more about that”) to keep conversations open and inclusive.

• On the role of humor:

  “Fun is not enough. But without fun, this is just therapy…play, joy, laughter...takes the edge off...allows them to take some risks and play.”
  (Ben Swire, 43:48)

Practical Exercises & Techniques

Distilling & Sharing Values (06:45–08:07)

• Reflect on someone who shaped you—describe with a phrase and image—then discuss with others.
  Why? It reveals personal values and promotes meaningful dialogue.

The Five Whys (10:56–12:50)

• For deeper understanding, have a conversation where, for any statement, you ask “Why?” five times.

No-Look Portraits (Family Activity, 35:44–39:00)

• In pairs, draw each other without looking at the page or lifting your pen.
  Share personal stories (e.g., childhood, embarrassment) and title each drawing based on a comforting phrase you needed at the time.

Emblematos (Personal/Family Reflection, 39:00–43:38)

• Create an emblem (using craft supplies or collage) representing your personal motto for the year—swap and make it for each other.

Facilitating Real Connection: Practical Tips

Conversations > Compliments (27:59–30:06)

• Avoid praise, ask “Tell me more about that,” focus on process and experience rather than outcome.

Focus on Process (30:06–31:46)

• Vulnerability and connection can’t be commanded or put in a manual; they have to be experienced and practiced, like learning to swim.

Safe Failure as Growth (32:39–34:04)

• Allow space for mistakes; the long-term payoff is creative innovation.

Humor and Social Risk-Taking (43:38–46:39)

• Humor and laughter are crucial to disarming group tension and creating an environment where people feel safe taking risks.
• Social risks can be “dangerous,” but doing them together transforms shame/embarrassment into growth and connection.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:04 — Ben Swire’s intro & risk aversion
• 04:45 — “Safe danger” definition
• 06:45 — Exercises for unlocking connection
• 10:21 — Exploring “comfort” vs. “safety”
• 11:34 — The Five Whys
• 15:26 — IDEO culture influences
• 20:06 — Treating company culture as a design challenge
• 27:59 — Why facilitators should lead with curiosity
• 32:39 — Risk, mistake-making, and innovation
• 35:44 — Family applications: Drawing and storytelling games
• 39:00 — Emblematos activity
• 43:38 — The role of humor and play
• 45:50 — Importance of social risks (especially for introverts)

Closing Reflection

This episode reinforces the idea that comfort and innovation—not to mention deeper relationships—sit on opposite ends of a spectrum. Swire and Duffy offer an approachable, humorous, and practical toolkit for anyone wanting richer teamwork, personal growth, or family communication. At its heart: creating playful, safe environments where vulnerability isn’t a risk, but a rewarding path to connection.

Recommended Resources:

• Ben Swire’s Safe Danger
• Make Believe Works (for workshops and resources)
• Chris Duffy’s book Humor Me

Notable Quote to End:

“The goal is that everyone can feel seen without worrying about being judged. Because if that happens…everybody finds value in that connection, in that moment.”
(Ben Swire, 14:56)