← How to Be a Better Human
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- [00:02]
A
This is how to be a better human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy, and I'm very stressed. Why am I stressed? Because I have access to the Internet, okay? I read the news. I know what's happening in the world. Also, I have young children, and I worry about the kids. And then sometimes the kids need things in the middle of the night, so then I'm up in the middle of the night, so then I'm tired the next day. And I still have to record a video making an intro for the podcast, but there are these deep, dark circles under my eyes. And also there's so much work to do.
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B
And speaking of work to do, there's
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A
always more work to do, and there's also always more laundry and always more cleaning and always more groceries and always more bills to pay.
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There's so much stress, and it all just keeps coming.
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You know, all of us have stress in our lives, and some of us
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handle it in healthy ways, and others
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of us maybe in less than healthy ways.
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B
So I think that I know that I need to. And I bet a lot of you
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A
also need to talk to today's guest, Dr. Jenny Tatez. She is a licensed clinician with a doctorate in clinical psychology, and she is the author of.
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Of the new book Stress how to Soothe youe Mind and Body in Minutes. Now, soothing my mind and body in Minutes. That sounds pretty dang good.
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A
I would love that. The stressors are not gonna go away. They're always gonna be there. But maybe I. And maybe we can learn some strategies to deal with them.
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So let's find out how to do it. To get us started, here is Jenny
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reading a passage from her book.
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Let's take an example that unfolded in my house one morning when my husband Adam, was. Was tired and rushing. Not a good combination. He dropped a full carton of milk on the kitchen floor, fuming. He cleaned it up rather aggressively and cut his hand on the cake plate at the bottom of our refrigerator. Unfortunately, we didn't have any bandages in the house. So feeling even more frustrated, he jumped in the car for a drugstore run. Agitated and replaying his horrible morning. On the way home from the drugstore, he then got into a minor car accident. You can't make this stuff up. Of course, I have plenty of examples of how I've exacerbated an already stressful situation. Years ago, exhausted and newly back to work after the recent birth of my second child, began gnawing endlessly on my fingernail to the point where I found myself in the emergency room. With an antibiotic resistant infection that required minor surgery. If I had only paused, observed my stress fueled urges, taken a few deep breaths and tried one of the stress resets in this book, I'd have spared myself hours in the emergency room and multiple follow up visits with an infectious disease specialist. I'm pretty sure you have examples of your own.
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A
I have many examples of my own and we are going to talk about them. But first we're going to take a short break. We'll be right back.
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D
Now more people than ever can bring in their bill for a better deal at Verizon. Got AT&T or T Mobile. We got you Xfinity or Spectrum. You too. So tell your friends, your family, your quirky neighbor Jeff, grab your megaphone and yell it from the rooftop. Get a better deal at Verizon because chances are anyone in shouting distance is included. Bring in your at&t t Mobile, Xfinity or Spectrum bill and we'll give you a better deal on the best network Come by Verizon today. Best Network based on RootMetrics Best Overall Mobile Network Performance US 2nd Half 2025 all rights reserved. Must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.
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E
This podcast is brought to you by Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. With the Wise account, you can send, spend and receive in over 40 currencies with no markups and no hidden fees. Whether you're sending pounds across the pond, spending rials in Rio, or getting paid in dollars for your side gig, you'll get the mid market exchange rate on every transaction. Plus most transfers arrive in less than 20 seconds. Join 15 million customers internationally. Be smart. Get Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com, ts and Cs apply.
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Today. We're talking about how to handle stress
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with Dr. Jenny Tatez.
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Hi, I'm Dr. Jenny Tates. I'm a clinical psychologist and I'm passionate about spreading hope to a wide audience. So I often write about my favorite practices and my most recent book is called Stress Resets.
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A
So Jenny, thank you so much for being here. And I want to start with probably the most basic question, which is what is a stress reset?
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C
A stress reset is something you can do quickly, literally within minutes that can change the course of how stress affects you. One of the most unfortunate parts of being human is that we have a knack for taking something minorly stressful like imagine like almost like a little stain. And we have a knack for, like, trying to fix it in a way that just makes it so much worse than it initially was. And so a stress reset kind of gives you this opportunity to keep it contained and maybe even make it better.
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B
So what is actually stress, then?
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C
In the first place, stress is these moments when we feel totally overwhelmed. It's like this mismatch between our bandwidth and what we're facing. It's when you kind of think it's too much. I just can't.
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A
So one thing that I really love about your book is that you talk about places where we can look at stress with our mind, but you also look at stress in our body. So can you talk a little bit about stress as it plays out in both of those realms?
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C
You know, it's interesting. When we're feeling kind of overwhelmed, we end up getting into a stress cycle. We start thinking thoughts that are catastrophic or negative. We experience stress in our minds. Like, you know, this is terrible. This is the worst thing that could possibly be. If there's something that's ambiguous and we're not sure what it is, our minds kind of default to expecting the worst or imagining. Imagining things are going to be terrible. And then we experience stress in our body. Obviously, thinking thoughts like, let's say your boss puts a meeting on your calendar. It's very easy to start to think, like, I'm going to be laid off. And then obviously that's going to do a number to your body. Maybe you're going to start to feel really tense, short of breath. Then the third piece that I think is really interesting is then we often do things that make things that much worse. So if your boss put a meeting on the calendar, you're all tens. Maybe you decide, like, I can't focus. I'm just gonna, like, procrastinate for, like, the next four hours until the meeting happens. And then you've put yourself into this whole tornado. And the crazy thing, Chris, is, is that I've had so many clients that have had, like, this exact thing happen to them. And, like, it's kind of hilarious. Like, some of the reasons for meetings could be, like, the way you're parking in the company's lot. Like, it could be something that's so not like, I'm sorry, we're relaying off your team. It's. It's nothing to do with, like, the fact that you were late to a meeting. It's something that kind of humorous.
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A
I so relate to that feeling of, like, you have a panicked idea of what this thing is going to be, and Then you waste the whole day because you can't stop fixating on it. And then it turns out that it was like, hey, by the way, I'm having a one on one call with everyone just to talk about, like, we want to make sure everyone gets their favorite snacks. So what's your favorite snack? And you're like, that's good and not bad. And also, so why did this have to be a meeting? But I was, I've been freaking out for hours.
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C
Totally. And even in our personal lives with like a text like, hey, can we talk? It's like, I wanted to try to put something fun on the calendar versus, like, you're a terrible friend and we need to like, end our friendship.
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I love to just like, call unexpectedly. And a lot of people are like, let's not do this to me. Yeah. Like, this is always reads as an emergency. And I'm like, I was driving for 20 minutes. I thought I would see how you're doing.
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C
Yeah. Yeah. So sweet.
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No.
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And so I talk about resetting stress at all those, like, at all those three junctures in our minds, in our bodies, and in our behaviors. And you could do this in the moment, but you could also do this preemptively. Like, it's really hard in those moments to quickly think differently than how you normally think or to be able to recalibrate your body or be intentional about your behaviors. But there are things we could do ahead of stressful moments that are like preventative medicine.
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A
You talk in the book about, like a stress reset versus a mental buffer. So can you walk us through what the difference between those two is and when we would apply one versus the other?
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Yeah.
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A stress reset is in those moments, in that moment where you get that email, where you get a surprise call from Chris, like, that is when you maybe need to reset right then and there. But a buffer are things that we want to do. It's almost like saving money for an unexpected cost that you weren't, you know, you suddenly need new tires or something. You want to be saving money in the bank. So it's really hard. A lot of people expect that all of a sudden, like, they're going to be able to do something difficult, like not be judgmental in like a really hard moment if they haven't built up, like the practice of being less judgmental or kinder to themselves. And so I think we need to be realistic. Like, I don't want to be. I don't want anyone to think, like, you know, I tried this. It didn't Work. You might need to be trying this at other times to, like, if you want to really run fast during, like, a, you know, scary event on the street, you need to, like, have some ability to run fast, period.
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A
Well, one thing that is just. Is just funny is you and I are both so clearly in Los Angeles in that, like, several of our things have been, like, a parking related stress or your driving stress. So, like, car related stress is running on the street. Yeah, yeah. But then you also have. I'm sure you get this all the time, but you have, like, such a naturally, like, calming voice and demeanor. I see why you are, like, a clinician who can help people deal with stress. Do you think that you've always had that or you think you've gotten more like that because of your clinical practice?
- [09:28]
C
Chris, I love that you're mentioning this because this is one of the things that has irked me so much. People online, like, accuse me of having, like, an artificial therapy voice, and I'm like, I am literally. I am literally the worst actor. Like, if you wanted to hire people for, like, a show, like, I couldn't do it. I think maybe part of it is, like, la. Maybe part of it is my personality. But. But, yeah, this is me in and out. My friends would tell you that this is me.
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Oh, I mean, such a good way. Not as a critique at all.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Like, I'm like, I don't know, but
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I just want to clear the air. I'm like, why, when I do a podcast interview, do people say that I sound fake? I'm like, oh, my gosh, Talk to me, like, tomorrow. Call me spontaneously when you're driving. I think a lot of people, maybe clients or people that might be watching this, have the sense that, like, somehow, like, I don't experience stress or because I exude calm. Like, you know, there's some sort of Teflon around me and stress doesn't penetrate. But, like, I feel. I totally understand stress. I get stress. I feel stressed. I just really try to practice every single thing. I prescribe, like, all the time.
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A
What are the main sources of stress for you?
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C
You know, in my clinical practice, I feel so honored and lucky to do what I do. But one of my specialties is working with people that struggle with chronic suicidality. And so I am often on, like, kind of on call. Like, I want to be helpful to people, and so they're. Most of my patients are able to reach me between sessions. So I. I choose to work with a, you know, kind of like the psychological version of Kind of the er, professionally. And then I have three little kids who are amazing but there's also a lot of. You know, my son like 2 nights ago was like at 9 o' clock after I asked him like consistently since 5 o', clock, realized that he had like a major homework assignment that was like involved me taking pictures of him and like this whole thing. I'm like, dude, we've talked for four hours, what's due tomorrow? Nothing, nothing, nothing. And that's a minor stress and that's a pleasurable stress. But that's in the moment. After you've been going since 6am it's like what's happening now? I have to do homework with an 8 year old at 9pm which is not his prime time. Yeah. So yeah, the normal stressors. And also again, I'm human. Things affect me the same way they affect everyone else.
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Even just in the way that you framed it. You were like, I have this really serious job where often it is a life or death thing. And I think anyone would argue like that is so stressful. Of course it makes sense that you're stressed. And then you said, I also have my kid and he's wonderful. But then I'm stressed about having the homework and that's a good thing. But one of the things that I do a lot, and I think a lot of people do, is we sometimes have this emotional judgment around the things that we feel stressed on. Like, oh, but this is like a gift, like getting to spend time with my kid. I shouldn't also feel stressed about that. And you talk in the book about how like layering that emotion on top of like this isn't worthy of stress or this I shouldn't be angry about this thing or it's not, I'm not allowed to feel jealous or whatever the emotion is can sometimes be maybe like the main driver of the stress around a thing is that like we don't allow ourselves to feel the way we feel. So I just would love to like talk about that since I think it came up there and it is such a natural and universal thing.
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C
Yeah, I mean technically we all have what's referred to as primary emotions, like the first thing that we feel and then we can easily create secondary emotions. So I could feel anxious that like, you know, on a small level that like my kid has some project due and I was supposed to email it to his teacher and like I'm not up to date on the school emails and he totally forgot so I could feel like a little small level of anxiety. And then I could start to judge, like, what's wrong with me? Why am I feeling anxious now? And then I have, like, anxiety on top of anxiety, which for some people in a different situation could lead to panic. If, like, someone's heart's racing and they're like, this is so weird. Like, that could, you know, lead to, like, more anxiety, or it could lead to different emotions. It could lead to something totally different. Like, oh, my gosh, I'm so embarrassed. Why do I feel stressed by this? So it could be, like, anxiety, more anxiety, shame. Then maybe there's guilt of, like, like, why do I feel this way? This is, like, so it's embarrassing with him. It's bad for me. And so it could lead to this whole spiral. That's a very silly example, but I think in human life, it's like someone was just telling me that, you know, they were listening to a song that was really sad in front of a child, and they felt embarrassed by emoting. And it's like, you felt sad and now you feel embarrassed. Now you feel worried about what that did to that person. But it's like, we're human. And so it's again, like, the stress thing, we could either keep it small or we could create this whole web of layer on top of layer. And the first feeling that we have is helpful and productive. Like, the first feeling is like, let's get this done. Let's go for, like, good enough. This is not going to be perfect. We're just going to do this. Like, how fast can you, like, do the things versus, like, unproductive, which is, like, shame or more anxiety. It could lead to, like, not being in a position that you could actually do the thing. And so I think a huge thing that we can all do when we start to feel stressed instead of getting into catastrophic thoughts or instead of, like, berating yourself, is, like, normalizing the normal, like, just being a good friend to yourself. It makes. It's so simple, but so something we don't do for ourselves, but we do easily for others. Of course you feel this way, given this. Of course you feel this. And it's just like a quick reframe versus, like, what the hell is wrong with me Is, like, this makes total sense. And that immediately could probably take stress down a notch. And that's why we, like, enjoy talking to, like, the friends that are empathic and validating. And when we don't, like, call people that, you know, say, like, you're overreacting and don't worry. What's wrong with You.
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A
I loved how in your book you ground it in your practice and like, what school of thought you are. And one of them that I wasn't as familiar with was dbt. And I just love to talk about it because it feels like it's at the heart of a lot of what we've already talked about and what we will continue to talk about. So can you tell us what does DBT stand for and what does it mean?
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Sure.
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DBT stands for dialectical Behavior therapy. And it is a treatment that was developed by Dr. Marshall in, who is an incredible pioneer. And just very interestingly, she came out later in her career in an article in the New York Times sharing that a lot of the treatment that she developed was the treatment that she wished she had when she really struggled with psychiatric crises. And it's really incredibly moving. She actually had been hospitalized repeatedly for her own mental health challenges and treated in really inhumane ways and prescribed tons of medications that really did more harm than good. And not that there's anything wrong with medications, but the medications she was prescribing tribes were really not working for her. And literally the unit that she was hospitalized on ultimately became a DBT unit where she came out and told her story, which is really powerful. And so DBT is a treatment that combines Zen Buddhist principles with cognitive behavioral therapy. And so it teaches, it's called dialectical because it's kind of seems like a dialectic or an apparent contradiction. It teaches 100% change alongside 100% acceptance. So I wholeheartedly accept this moment and I also wholeheartedly will change. And acceptance also kind of paves the way for change. And when you learn dbt, there's four specific tools that you learn. So a lot of people maybe think therapy is like, you go, you share your problems, you do a lot of the work, your therapist listens, take some notes and maybe summarizes some things. But DBT is almost like a class where your therapist teaches you a specific curriculum that includes four modules. Mindfulness, how to be present in the moment without judgment and in a way that allows for more joy. Interpersonal effectiveness, how to assert yourself, ask for what you want, maintain relationships, be skillful in maintaining your objectives. Self respect and your relationships. Emotion regulation, how to manage your emotions so they're kind of more on a dimmer system rather than an on, off, switch. And distress tolerance, how to cope with crises without making them worse. And DBT is a gold standard treatment for people that struggle with things like suicidality and self harm. Substance use, A lot of co occurring problems. But I think the DBT skills are amazing. And so one of my goals in writing Stress Resets is to disseminate these to the masses. Because every DBT therapist I know, myself included, feels like, this is so cool. We won the career lottery. I have all these cool tools at my disposal. I could use them in my life. I could teach that to friends. But why not use them preventatively or to enhance quality of life? Like, they don't need to just be used for crises. Or when you're at your lowest point,
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A
you know, just to read a quote from the book, you say, if you're wondering what the heck dialectical means, the term refers to the concept that ideas that seem in opposition can both be true. A key dialectic in DBT is that you can simultaneously accept what you're facing and change your life. And one of the things that I
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think comes up a lot for me
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when I think about stress is this idea of in my control versus outside of my control. Let me give you even the most extreme example, right? Like, you live in a repressive authoritarian regime. The idea that the solution to your problem is, I just have to think about things differently. That's not true. And yet changing the way that you think about things and your ability to get through each day when you're in a. A repressive authoritarian regime also could be a really big and important thing, even though it wouldn't change the, like, larger factor. So it's like it doesn't solve the problem. And also you can't solve the problem unless you are able to function. So I feel like that's one of the, like, big dialectics that obviously I'm picking the most extreme version of.
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C
Absolutely.
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So think about, like, talk to me about how we can think about stress in some of these ones where it is, like, very external. It's not just like how I'm perceiving things. Like, you get in a car accident, that's clearly an external event. But how does the internal process also matter in that external event?
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C
Yeah, I mean, so again, you can get into a car accident and think like, this is terrible. I'm never gonna drive again. I've had patients that live in places like LA where you need to drive, and it's like, this thing happened to me and game over. I will never drive myself. I will be taking an Uber. I will not drive on the freeway. I'm just gonna take roads. But we have to learn to. This thing happened. It was really awful. It was unexpected. It makes total sense That I feel anxious and stressed and I'm going to choose, like, what would I do if I wholeheartedly approach this with like a beginner's mind or like, this was my first time doing this thing. And obviously I'm going to be cautious and I'm going to be careful and I'm going to totally accept any additional stress in my body as I approach this. But to continue, what would you say
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to someone who feels like, because they look at the news and they look at the outside world and they see horrible things happening and they see other people suffering, that their own suffering is unworthy because it's not big enough, it doesn't matter.
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C
I think that that is a really common example of self invalidation. Like, both things are true, like your pain. And again, this is so interesting. It's like the things that people tell us would make us like, enraged, but then we tell them to ourselves on repeat. It's. I've seen so many young adults whose parents are like, you have nothing to be upset about, look at all problems and look at how good you have it. And they're like, want to throw a book at their parents, but throw the phone at their parents. You know, but it's like when we tell that to ourselves all the time, I mean, I think both things are true. Like, I have every reason to be upset and also there's really big problems in the world. And. And it could also be helpful to, to be able to learn. One of the things I talk about is also observing and describing your emotions. Like, I could say, you know, this thing that happened to me on a zero to five scale is a two. And being, you know, in a war zone. Right. Understandably be like a five plus, like on a, you know, five being highest. And so they're both things. You know, we don't want to minimize our experience, but we also want to have some perspective.
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We could all use some perspective. And we're going to get even more of it. But first, we are going to experience some podcast ads.
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- [21:55]
A
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B
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A
and we are back with Dr. Jenny Tetes. I'd love to talk about some of the specific practices because I mean, something that again, is so fantastic about you and your work is you are so grounded in what can people actually do. Like, okay, here's an actual practice that you can do and here's your book is genuinely just full of practices for people to do. One of them is you talk about how you had a patient who you described to her the difference between framing something as I need to calm down versus I need to get excited and how the exact same moment could be a calm down or a get excited moment, depending on how you looked at it. Can you talk a little bit about that?
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C
Sure. There's research that finds that, you know, there so much about emotion regulation is about appraisal, like when we're excited. If you think about a time that you're really revved up, even maybe exercising or something, like, it could be joyful to have your heart rate up and to feel even like, you know, if you're laughing really hard, maybe your face is flushed. But oftentimes, if we are in a different situation, the same physical sensations, we interpret the same physical sensations negatively. And so telling ourselves we need to calm down, especially if we're revved up, isn't helpful. But kind of channeling that into, like, this matters to me, I care about this. My body stress response is helpful, can be really empowering. And there's actually a lot of on adopting like a synergistic mindset around stress. So this combination of believing that stress is adaptive, like, stress is the price of a meaningful life. If you had no stress, you would probably be apathetic and have nothing going on in your life. And also that your body's stress response is helpful, like, literally even. There's a famous article that I like about turning your knots into bows. Like, literally seeing like knots in your stomach as, like, bows, like before you're going into the gre. This is a side that I'm doing well. My stomach is like, you know, revving up my body to perform. Like, this is not like, oh my gosh, like, I'm gonna fail because my stomach is growling. No, this is like a sign that you're gonna do well. If you can reframe stress more positively, especially when it's in line with what matters to you and you can accept wholeheartedly your body's stress response. The combination of doing those two things and interventions that teach those two practices in like 30 minutes can actually correlate with reducing cortisol, reducing mental health challenges and also narrow achievement gaps. Like this is like a 30 minute intervention. Like four years later can correlate with first generation college students actually graduating college. And so this isn't just like a nice kind of reframe. It translates into again that behavioral piece of choosing behaviors and also changing the way you see yourself in the way in the course of your life like these. The goal of resetting stress is not to just feel better in this moment. It's to live the life that you want to live.
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A
You know that idea of appraisal and reappraisal. You talked about how even though this is such an important skill and one that can really transform it, it also is a really challenging skill. And you say, just to read from the book on page nine, you say, one of the challenges of reappraisal is applying it to different situations. While participants in studies can actively rethink their stress responses in specific situations like taking a test or giving a talk, they're not necessarily able to do the same when it comes to navigating a difficult relationship or worrying about a health issue issue. And then you talk about how that, that is actually like a transfer problem. I find that so much in my own life. Like I am so, you know, people get really stressed about public speaking. I love to speak publicly and some of that is just natural inclination, but some of it is like, as I'm about to go out on stage, I like jump up and down, I move my body, I'm like, great, great, great, great, great. And I'm like, then it turns into, I'm not stressed, I'm excited. But then people are often surprised to find out, like if I'm going into a room, like I, they had like a meet and greet at the preschool for my, my son. And when I like walked into this meet and greet, which is just like a very friendly, low stakes thing, I'm not expected to do anything. I was like, my heart was pounding and I was so nervous to be like, I have to meet these parents and talk to them and I have to make a good impression. And I, you know, I want to have a good relationship. It just didn't transfer for me in that way. So I'm curious, like, how do you transfer from one to another?
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C
Yeah, Chris, I mean, can I ask what you thought when you walked into the preschool? Like you said, you said, you kind of just alluded to some, like, I have to make a good Impression.
- [29:08]
A
Yeah. It felt like. Well, I'm like, what I do now is setting the tone for the next several years. And it's not just me. It's like, how are people gonna see my wife? How are people gonna see my kid? Will we get to have playdates? Like, you know, I had put a lot of stakes on it that I probably were not actually there.
- [29:25]
C
And what would be, like, a more helpful way to approach the situation?
- [29:28]
B
Well, I think probably the way that
- [29:30]
A
I actually approach, like, if I was giving a talk to a hundred people, you know, like, walking into a remark or a thousand people, whatever. I always say, like, like, whatever.
- [29:37]
B
Worst case scenario, they don't have fun.
- [29:38]
A
They'll never think of this again. If it's good, they'll remember it. If it's bad, they'll forget it.
- [29:42]
C
No. And if you could dial off the positivity or the gratitude or the opportunity to savor even. I'm thinking of, like, I'm about to walk into a room with people that are kids the same age. It's rare as an adult to be able to meet, like, so many people that live in the same area that are going through, like, a similar stage of life. This is an opportunity to maybe, like, connect with some people that are in a shared experience in a shared, like, geographical area. But if we could think about it in a way that's useful and adaptive, and then I think automatically, like, just doing that would change your body's stress response, would change, like, the. The kind of social anxiety, like, in your body and, like, tension and maybe shortness of breath. But if not even just if you are feeling that, like, that in your body, despite thinking more neutrally or effectively about the situation or positively about the situation, you could still, like, this is okay. This is normal. I care. You know, sometimes. Sometimes going into a social situation, I similarly, like, experience, like, oh, my gosh, like, my heart is going faster. Yeah. I haven't seen some of these people in ages, and I. I want to make a good impression. And this belongs. I mean, it's interesting. Like, you know, for someone running the marathon, it's like, there's some expectation of pain to be expected, and acceptance of that and celebrating that is part of the process and part of the feat of, like, mind over matter. And I think we need to kind of bring some of that. Like, it makes total sense. If you're. If your body's doing something, how can you normalize the normal and not make the normal into pathological in a way that just creates this tornado of, like, Your body and mind feeling like they're waging war against you.
- [31:17]
A
If I know I'm about to talk to a bunch of people, one thing that I do is I don't just like stand still and then walk out on stage. Instead I like, I'm literally like jumping up and down backstage. I'm like skipping, I'm like fake punching the air, just like moving my body
- [31:30]
B
and shaking my arms out and legs out. And I do all that just because it's like, it feels like, well, if my heart is racing and I'm jumping
- [31:37]
A
in these ways, that's how it's supposed to be. If I'm just standing still and my heart is racing, then it feels like that's nervous energy, it's not positive energy.
- [31:44]
F
Yeah.
- [31:45]
C
And that's one of the things. There's a specific set of skills called tip temperature, intense exercise, paced breathing and progressive muscle relaxation. If you are feeling totally overwhelmed and like you need to do something different with your body, like intense exercise and that, that doesn't mean going to like a gym class that could literally be doing jumping jacks or burpees. And if you could attribute that like it makes total sense that my heart is doing this because I'm vigorously exercising. And then that also like quiets your mind. You can't be like thinking your worst case scenario thoughts while you're doing a squat jump. That automatically like creates a different attribution and changes your body chemistry.
- [32:24]
A
You also talked about the power of cold water, which I thought was really interesting. Just like having a bowl of ice water and putting your hand or your face into it can be one of these ways of just kind of like quickly resetting your body.
- [32:34]
C
Exactly. So that is part of the tip skill. So again the T is temperature. And so there's a specific practice where if you like, the human body has this amazing feature that if your body is submerged, if your face specifically is submerged in cold water and you're holding your breath, breath, you automatically like lower your heart rate and your blood flow is redirected from non essential to essential organs. And so if you're feeling totally overwhelmed and something really horrible happened to you today, or you're really feeling unable to like kind of turn off rumination or thought spiraling. If you took like a salad bowl full of ice water, set a timer on your phone for 30 seconds, held your breath, stuck your face in the ice water, if you were wearing an apple, watch, your heart rate would come down. It's like a control alt delete feature that we all have I should also just say a disclaimer that if you have cardiac issues, this does change your heart rate pretty quickly. So it's not advisable if you do have a heart condition. But it's also a larger theme that in a matter of seconds or minutes we can change things. We can totally. If you literally don't want to do that. Even just having the mindset of I could feel better quickly. Like a lot of times right in the thick of how we're feeling, we assume I will feel this way forever and it's going to get worse. It's like actually I could feel different in seconds in my body and in my mind, and things are constantly changing.
- [34:03]
B
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A
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C
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B
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A
Restrictions apply Service not available in all areas.
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E
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- [36:35]
A
another example that I wanted to talk about is you talk about as one of these mind buffers, something that you can do regularly that can help you build your endurance and your stamina in the kind of mental sense around stress is you talk about untangling yourself from your negative core beliefs. I think this is such an interesting idea that who we are versus who we believe ourselves to be and that you could actually untangle those two things. So I would love to know more about what the difference between who we are and who we believe ourselves to be is and how we can identify that difference.
- [37:15]
C
There's so many ways that we see ourselves in the world and other people that might have nothing to do with our reality. And so, you know, past painful experiences can create some sort of narrative in your mind of like, I'm not good enough or I'm unlovable or if people really knew me, they wouldn't care about me. And maybe we have beliefs about other people of like, people just want something from me, or beliefs about the future of like, things won't work out. And it's really, really hard to like, let facts penetrate if we hold on to these ways, like we see the world through these kind of specific glasses. And so it's helpful to kind of think about your life and how did you come to see yourself? How did you come to see other people? How did you come to see kind of your future and see like, what are my core beliefs and how do they make sense? And so a lot of people that I see that have been like, let's say bullied feel like there's something kind of wrong with them or they're not lovable or they're not cool. And maybe that leads to behaviors like avoiding initiating relationships or reaching out to people or putting themselves out there wholeheartedly and just kind of like doing what they think Is like, you know, what they're supposed to do. And so taking a step back and thinking about, like, what are my beliefs, what behaviors would I do to kind of transcend them? And what would I do if I didn't believe these things? Maybe I would just wear what I wanted to wear and do what I wanted to do and not feel like I needed to fix. And so I think it's helpful to think about, like, what are the ways I see myself and are they not helpful and are they not relevant in this moment? And that also leads to a lot of self compassion. It was really hard to at a pivotal age to have had a negative experience. How can I give myself the freedom of changing that now?
- [39:00]
A
I think I have for years had a strong belief about myself that I am physically not capable of doing things. And I don't mean I can't move or I can't take care of myself, but when it comes to fixing something or when it comes to being involved in a sport or athletic, I've just, just have had this belief that like, I'm not able to do those things. That that's. Other people are good at that and I'm not. And if I try and do it, it will mess things up. And it has led me to then be like, I can't hang a piece of art in my house. I can't put a nail in the wall. That's something I have to either get help with or I have to hire someone. Or I just like, if I do it, it'll cause this whole problem. And it's like, if someone asks, like, do you want to come play on a pickup basketball game? I'd be like, of course not. Like, why would you even ask me that? That does not sound fun. I don't like that. And so it's okay for me to not like that. But then some of it is like the ability to attempt a small home repair or to go swimming and think of myself as a swimmer. It's challenging those beliefs. And then when I do it, I'm like, huh? But actually I do enjoy this. Or, oh, that actually wasn't as hard as I thought. Or even if I mess it up, it's not a big deal to mess it up. And now there's three or five or even 12 little holes in the wall, but they're all covered up by the painting by the time it's hung up. So. So who cares?
- [40:17]
C
I think it just speaks to like, our minds tell us these things and then they really affect the scope of our Lives and what we choose to do. And who knows, like maybe you would actually enjoy pickup basketball, but our minds kind of create these narratives and then we let our behaviors like follow. And what if we choose our behaviors and like expand our minds?
- [40:38]
A
I'll give you the more vulnerable one, which, you know, I don't. I have less of an explanation as to like where it comes from or, or what it is. But I think that I sometimes have this feeling that the thing that makes me, and not even sometimes I think I often or maybe always have have this feeling that like the thing that makes me good or would make other people think that I'm good is like a collection of evidence that I'm putting together and that if I don't have a strong enough pile of evidence that I'm good, that like it could be cross examined away and that actually they would find out the truth that like I'm not a good person or I'm not worthy. You know, it's like I, if I'm able to say, like, well, I did this and I did this favor for this person and I was kind in this way and like, look judge, here's all the evidence, like, surely I'm a good person, but it's not some sort of core internal thing.
- [41:27]
C
Yeah, no, I really relate to that. I was thinking about what my example would be and it's like my parents got divorced when I was young and my mom got remarried and my stepdad was kind of like a cliche stepdad of like calling me an idiot when I was seven years old. And I think I adopted this idea that I'm like not smart enough or I'm not good enough, you know, I think we both collected the external validation around good enough. But like, what if I just see that the thought that I'm an idiot or I'm not smart enough is just a mental event from this childhood experience. And like that is an understandable thing to hold on to. But I don't need to be fixing it in the way of external achievement after external achievement. And like those things like aren't satisfying because they don't change the core belief. Unless you understand the core belief and do. What would you do if you didn't believe that to be true? Like maybe take a break from, from the good enough external pursuits or validations.
- [42:20]
A
It ties at something else that you've talked about in your work, which is like, sometimes if we act as though the thing is true even if we don't believe it, that that can lead that thing to become True. And so, for example, you are really depressed and you are feeling horrible, and you don't have any energy. Sometimes the thing that could actually help is to just be like, well, what
- [42:43]
B
would you do today if you weren't
- [42:45]
A
depressed and you did have energy? And then force yourself to do some version of that is like. Even though you're like, the last thing I want to do is call up a friend and go see a movie. If you force yourself to do that, you may find afterwards. Huh. I actually feel less bad than I did before.
- [43:01]
C
Exactly. And just to tie one thread with the core beliefs, I think everyone has these. And I don't want you to think that there's something wrong with you if you do. I was at a professional conference that was pretty experiential, and we all had to wear name tags. And instead of it saying Chris or Jack many, it said, I'm a terrible person. If people really knew me, they wouldn't like me. Yeah. And these people are amazing. And so I just think to normalize this is part of the human condition. And this doesn't require years of therapy to unpack or transcend. And then in terms of the thing that you're saying about changing the way you behave, this is so powerful. I mean, there's a treatment called behavioral activation that is literally giving someone a schedule of a few things that. That might give you pleasure. Oftentimes, people have to relearn pleasure if they're really depressed. Like, the pleasure that they once experienced might not be the same amount when they initially go back. Just a few things that might give you pleasure and things that might give you a sense of accomplishment or mastery, Something that's difficult but possible. And if you do it, you would feel like a challenge was accomplished, and then you could keep growing. Doing a few things each day for pleasure and mastery over several weeks actually works as well as antidepressants for moderate depression. It's literally, behavioral activation is a proven treatment that works as well as medications, no side effects, getting a planner and being willing to do the things. And also when you're doing the things, be totally present. Don't be thinking, like, I'm the worst at, you know, home repairs when you're doing your first one, or thinking like, no one likes me in a, you know, a social situation or something. And a lot of people think, like, I'm going to wait till I feel better to do better. But you could be waiting forever, and you could be feeling. Put yourself in a position where it's so much harder. And so I think even thinking about today, like what are some things you would do if you were living the way you wanted to feel and letting the behavior kind of start from the outside in.
- [44:56]
A
Dr. Jenny Tates, it was such a pleasure to talk to you. You are really incredible and I am so grateful you made the time. Thank you so much for being on the show.
- [45:05]
C
Thank you Chris and I feel the same about you and I'm really honored to be here.
- [45:13]
B
That is it for today's episode of how to Be a Better Human. And thank you so much to our
- [45:17]
A
guest, Dr. Jenny Tatez. You can find out more about her book Stress Resets and all of her other work on her website drjennietates.com youm
- [45:25]
B
can find out more about me at
- [45:26]
A
chrisduffycomedy.com I have information about my new book Humor Me How Laughing More can make you present Creative, connected and happy. As well as my live show dates and all my other projects up there.
- [45:35]
B
How to Be a Better Human is put together by a team that makes
- [45:38]
A
my life so much less stressful and I hope that they're doing the same for years. On the TED side we've got the unflavored flappable Daniela Bollorezo, Banban Cheng, Michelle Quint, Chloe Shashar Brooks, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lott, Tanzikasun Manibong, Antonio Ley and Joseph de Bruyne. Ryan Lash languidly edited this video and the episode was fact checked by Mateus Salas who is chill about everything except inaccuracies on the PRX side. Our extremely relaxed audio geniuses include Morgan Flannery, Nor Gill, Patrick Grant and Jocelyn Gonzalez.
- [46:06]
B
Thanks to you for listening.
- [46:08]
A
Please help me to not stress about new listeners by sending this to someone who you think would enjoy it. That's the number one way we get out to new listeners is word of mouth.
- [46:15]
B
We will be back next week with
- [46:17]
A
even more how to be a better Human. Until then, take care.
- [46:28]
F
Healthcare can feel complicated. That's why Optum uses technology to connect the people and processes that make healthcare easier, more affordable and more effective. We're making it clearer for you to know exactly what your benefits cover and to help you better manage your health. We're coordinating care between your doctors and your technology. We believe better, simpler healthcare is always possible. That's healthy optimism. That's Optum. Visit optum.com to learn more. We're lost. It feels like we're going round in circles.
- [47:02]
A
Goals.
- [47:02]
C
I'm gonna ask that man for directions.
- [47:05]
F
Hi there. We're trying to get to the state fairgrounds.
- [47:08]
A
Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree at this here road. Nah, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.
- [47:15]
C
How is their signal out here?
- [47:17]
A
T Mobile and US Cellular are coming together so the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five year price guarantee too. Okay, here's the turn.
- [47:29]
C
Actually, can you pull up the way
- [47:30]
F
to a T Mobile store?
- [47:32]
G
America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available at US Cellular stores in hermiston. Best mobile network Based on analysis by Oklos B test intelligence data second half of 2025 bigger network the combination of T mobile's and US cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.
- [47:57]
H
Hi there, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethinking Podcast and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds. It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work. The admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work work, they actually do it. Start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com
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I
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A
America's best network based on root metrics
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E
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