How to tell a juicy story (w/ Rachelle Hampton)

Summary

Episode Summary: "How to Tell a Juicy Story" featuring Rachel Hampton

Podcast: How to Be a Better Human
Host: Chris Duffy
Guest: Rachel Hampton
Release Date: March 31, 2025

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Introduction: Welcoming Rachel Hampton

In this special live episode recorded at the 2025 On Air Festival in Brooklyn, New York, comedian Chris Duffy welcomes guest Rachel Hampton, the new host of the acclaimed podcast Normal Gossip. Chris introduces Rachel as a master storyteller who transforms mundane details of everyday lives into compelling narratives. He highlights Rachel's ability to uncover sharp insights and offer actionable takeaways on enhancing human connections through storytelling.

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Understanding the Mechanics of Juicy Storytelling

Detailing the Essentials

Rachel Hampton delves into what makes a story "juicy" and engaging. She emphasizes that "the devil is in the details" (04:12). According to Rachel, having the foundational elements of a story is just the beginning; it's the intricate details, context, and setting that elevate a simple narrative into something captivating. She illustrates this with examples from Normal Gossip, where seemingly ordinary events—like those in the worlds of knitting or chair restoration—are brought to life through specific, relatable details.

Balancing Background Information

Chris and Rachel discuss the importance of providing the right amount of background information. Rachel points out that overloading a story with too much history can detract from the main narrative, while too little can leave the audience confused. For instance, Rachel explains how explaining terms like "Ethical Non-Monogamy (ENM)" (05:17) is crucial for audience understanding without overshadowing the core story.

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The Role of the Audience in Storytelling

Collaborative Storytelling

Rachel highlights that effective gossip—and by extension, storytelling—is a collaborative effort between the storyteller and the audience. "Gossip is a very collaborative sport," she notes (07:09). By understanding what the listener is interested in, the storyteller can tailor the details to keep the audience engaged. This interactive approach ensures that the story resonates on a personal level, making it more memorable and impactful.

Adaptability Based on Audience

Chris shares his admiration for Rachel's ability to hook listeners even when the initial topic might not seem interesting. Rachel explains that this skill stems from anticipating the audience's reactions and guiding them through the narrative with strategic details and emotional cues. This adaptability allows listeners to become invested in the story, transforming their perception of seemingly trivial events into fascinating tales.

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Maintaining Positivity in Gossip

Creating Empathy for All Characters

One of the standout features of Rachel's approach is ensuring that gossip does not become mean-spirited. "We try to make sure every one of our characters, you could kind of understand where they're coming from in a story," Rachel explains (11:00). By providing context and depth to all characters involved, Rachel fosters empathy, preventing the audience from viewing anyone as purely a villain. This nuanced portrayal promotes a balanced perspective, making the stories more relatable and less judgmental.

Balancing Humor and Sensitivity

The conversation also touches on the importance of genuine enjoyment in storytelling. Rachel consciously incorporates humor and ensures that both she and her guests have fun, which translates to a contagious positivity (12:08). This approach not only makes the stories enjoyable but also creates an inviting atmosphere where listeners feel comfortable and entertained.

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Exploring Diverse Types of Gossip

Beyond Traditional Gossip Topics

Rachel discusses how Normal Gossip broadens the scope of traditional gossip topics. "We put out calls for gossip at the beginning of every season," she mentions (09:47). By inviting submissions from various niches—such as polyamory, road trips, megachurches, and tabletop gaming—the podcast diversifies its content beyond the usual themes of money and sex. This strategy not only keeps the content fresh but also appeals to a wider audience with varied interests.

Fascination with Interpersonal Dynamics

Rachel reveals her particular interest in interparent drama and complex interpersonal relationships. She finds the politics within parenting and the dynamics of relationships in tight-knit communities incredibly intriguing, as they often involve navigating challenging and relatable scenarios (35:18).

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Sources of Gossip in Everyday Life

Observing the World Actively

Rachel emphasizes the importance of being present and attentive to one's surroundings to gather authentic gossip. "Just being alive and awake to the world helps you get good gossip," she states (29:35). Whether it's overhearing conversations on the subway, listening to stories in a diner, or engaging with people in casual settings like Uber rides, Rachel finds that real-life interactions are rich sources of compelling narratives.

The Introspective Element

She also highlights the role of introspection in uncovering interesting stories. Moments of solitude allow her mind to revisit interactions and identify intriguing details that might initially seem insignificant but hold potential for a captivating story (31:06).

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Gossip Online vs. Offline

Navigating Online Information

Rachel advises caution when seeking gossip online, noting that much of it requires scrutiny and skepticism. "Any gossip you find online has to be taken with a grain of salt," she warns (38:07). She distinguishes between trustworthy, firsthand gossip and the unreliable, often exaggerated narratives found on platforms like Reddit or Twitter. Rachel recommends engaging with online communities as sources for multiple perspectives rather than definitive truths.

Building Trust and Authenticity

In contrast, offline gossip benefits from the trust built between the storyteller and the listener. Rachel underscores the importance of the relationship in ensuring the gossip's authenticity and relevance. This personal connection enhances the storytelling experience, making it more meaningful and believable.

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Conclusion: Embracing the Art of Storytelling

The episode concludes with Chris and Rachel reflecting on the intricate balance required to tell juicy, engaging stories without falling into negativity or misinformation. Rachel's expertise in transforming everyday moments into enthralling narratives offers valuable lessons for anyone looking to enhance their storytelling skills. By focusing on details, understanding the audience, maintaining empathy, and sourcing gossip thoughtfully, listeners can improve their own ability to connect and engage with others.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Hampton: "The devil is in the details." (04:12)
• Rachel Hampton: "Gossip is a very collaborative sport." (07:09)
• Rachel Hampton: "We try to make sure every one of our characters, you could kind of understand where they're coming from in a story." (11:00)
• Rachel Hampton: "Any gossip you find online has to be taken with a grain of salt." (38:07)

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, providing insights into effective storytelling and the nuanced art of gossip as discussed by Chris Duffy and Rachel Hampton.

Transcript

[Chris Duffy]

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[Rachel Hampton]

What else?

[Chris Duffy]

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[Rachel Hampton]

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[Chris Duffy]

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[Rachel Hampton]

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[Rachel Hampton]

Of course. I'm so happy to be here in the beautiful penthouse.

[Chris Duffy]

I know.

[Rachel Hampton]

Look at this view. It truly is.

[Chris Duffy]

Yeah, it's a gorgeous. I assume if you're listening to this, you're not seeing this, but it's absolutely beautiful.

[Rachel Hampton]

I'm so sor.

[Chris Duffy]

Well, Rachel, just to jump right into it, what have you learned about the mechanics of what makes a juicy story good? Because I feel like sometimes you think you have good gossip, and then it turns out that everyone you're telling it to is just very, very bored by it. So how do you actually tell a juicy story?

[Rachel Hampton]

I think the devil is in the details. I think so often you can have the bones of a good story, and then once you start telling it, you're like, this is every other story I've heard about an E and M couple in Brooklyn. How do I make this more interesting? And so much of it is like, oh, well, you know, the wife, she is a art critic, and the husband is an architect, and they met here. And then you play into how their relationship came together. And so I think it's mostly about detail, context, setting. Unfortunately, the things you learned in, like, fourth grade English literature when you were learning how to deconstruct a story, are you.

[Chris Duffy]

Were you just making that up or.

[Rachel Hampton]

Is that a real thing? Yeah.

[Chris Duffy]

Cool.

[Rachel Hampton]

Also, lying. Lying, yeah.

[Chris Duffy]

Well, it also seems like, having the right amount of background info. Right. So like, ENM don't know what that stands for. Not going to be easy to follow the story. Yeah. If someone doesn't know what E M stands for. What is E M?

[Rachel Hampton]

It stands for Ethical Non Monogamy, which is the latest fad in Brooklyn to avoid commitment.

[Chris Duffy]

Okay. And so, you know, sometimes people get bogged in all of the background where they're like, let me explain the history of ethical non monogamy and where the term comes from and why we use it. And then you actually haven't heard anything about the architect and the artist that you actually wanted to hear. But then other times, they don't give you enough, and so you're just clueless. One of the things that I think normal gossip does so well and so fun about the show is in the middle of a story, you pause and you say, how are you feeling? And then you also say, like, what's gonna happen next? So tell me about those are very intentional moments in the show. Tell me about those.

[Rachel Hampton]

I mean, I think that when you have gossip, you really, really want to tell it. But I think one of the most important things about gossip is the other person who's receiving the gossip. I think that their reactions and what they bring to the story is actually what makes it sing. I think pausing to check in and figuring out what the person you're talking to is actually interested in is really important. Where, if it's the artist and the architect, if you're talking to someone who is not a creative, they don't really give a fuck about the art that's in this couple's living room. But if you know someone who knows art really well, you're like, well, they have this Basquiat, but it's kind of. I think it's a knockoff, and that says a lot about that couple. But if you said that to someone who doesn't know who Basquiat is, it doesn't really matter. So it really depends on who's receiving the gossip and what is really kind of snagging on them. And then you can hone in on the details that they actually want, which makes the entire enterprise just more collaborative. I think gossip is a very collaborative sport.

[Chris Duffy]

See, this is also the thing that I think is fun. Like, obviously, we're in a room where a lot of these people are podcast people. This is a podcast festival. So what? I didn't mean to break that to you, but as a result, I'm sure people have thoughts about how they can use this in their own creative work. But even if you're someone who does not have a podcast of their own, they're not someone who's thinking about this as hosting a show. I feel like this is the piece that anyone can use, which is pay attention to the person who you're telling a story to. What are they going to care about? What do they need to know? And then how can you hook them even more? Because for me, I'm a huge fan of the show. And before I listen to normal gossip episodes often, I do not care at all about some of the topic. And then afterwards, now I'm like, she had acrylic wool. Oh, my God. That's shocking behavior.

[Rachel Hampton]

Exactly.

[Chris Duffy]

And that's because, like, you get invested. Or like, when I first listened to the episode that takes place at, like, a kid's park, I didn't have a kid, so I had no familiarity with, like, the internal politics of the trampoline zones. But then you listen to that, and afterwards I'm like, I cannot believe they brought peanut butter cupcakes in.

[Rachel Hampton]

They know there's a nut allergy. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Chris Duffy]

And so you can really all of a sudden get this person hooked by taking them along on the journey and giving them the right little clues. Do you find that that plays out in your regular life outside of hosting the podcast now?

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, definitely. Whenever anything happens in my life, I'm immediately thinking of how I will tell this story to the four people who I talk to the most regularly. And I'm thinking of the details that I will tell them about the event. And I will not give anyone a full view of the event because they don't need that. That's kind of boring. That's my experience. That's from my the. For my friends who just want the gossip, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna tell this friend who's really into crafting that they were wearing a sweater that I'm pretty sure that it was hand knitted, but I'm not sure where. Or I will tell a friend who's really into Shakespeare that this person kept misquoting Hamlet while we were talking. And I didn't know that until I looked it up later. So I think with each story that happens in my life, I'm on a bad date. I'm 100% thinking about, like, oh, this is how my best friend is gonna hear this story, and it's gonna be great.

[Chris Duffy]

I feel like when I think about gossip in my own life, it's often really, like, money or sex related. Stuff. And I feel like you all do such a good job of getting gossip that is not just in those two categories. So how do you do that? Like, on a meta level, how do you actually get gossip that's not just and she slept with this other person and he's sleeping with the teacher or whatever it is.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah, we put out calls for gossip at the beginning of every season. So this season I'm going to try and remember what I asked for. We asked for. We did ask for sex gossip. We asked for specifically polyamory gossip. We asked for road trip gossip, megachurch gossip, fandom gossip, tabletop gaming gossip, which we did get, by the way. So I do think most people's instincts when you talk about gossip are to think who's sleeping with who. And I think those things can be window dressing to a story because those are often the most fun dynamics to think about. But I think getting a really good setting that feels both very specific but also very understandable from anyone's point of view is pointing people in the right direction. Sometimes they don't think they have gossip. And then you're like, what's going on in your Dungeons and Dragons game? And they're like, whoa, you're right. We did lose a member of our team because they lied to us about their character sheet. And you're like, thank you. Tell me more.

[Chris Duffy]

And how do you keep the gossip from being mean? Like, it doesn't feel like your show is ever mean spirited. So how do you keep that from being the case?

[Rachel Hampton]

I think we try to make sure every one of our characters, you could kind of understand where they're coming from in a story. I think when we receive gossip, sometimes there's very easy villains, which makes sense. When you are the protagonist of a gossip, you're like, she sucked. Which is fair. But you also have to think about as the person receiving the gossip and turning it into a story. Like, why did she suck? In what specific way did she suck? Is the way that she sucks understandable because of where she comes from? And you kind of built those details in where it's like, I don't want anyone, if I'm telling them gossip, I don't want anyone to be on the side of the person I'm complaining about. But when I'm writing a story for normal gossip, I want someone in the audience to be able to empathize with the person who is being complained about.

[Chris Duffy]

This is another thing that I love about the show is I feel like you clearly have a good time. Like, you are Laughing and you're enjoying it. That's contagious, right? Like, I feel like there's a real. It's fun to hear other people have genuine fun. And especially when the world is full of horrible things happening, it's even more fun to be like, at least someone is having fun out there.

[Rachel Hampton]

Someone's giggling.

[Chris Duffy]

At least Rachel's having fun for the rest of us. How much of that do you consciously do and how much of that do you think is just naturally coming through because you just love doing this?

[Rachel Hampton]

Well, I love this job. I talk about that all the time. This is my dream job. It's one of the few jobs that exist in media right now that don't require to be on Twitter or understand what Elon Musk is doing, which is just great for my brain. It's definitely very conscious as well, in that I always want the guest to feel comfortable interjecting. That's actually one of, I think the biggest technical things with the show is that with most interviews, for example, you're conscious of crosstalk. You want them to not speak over you. But in normal gossip, those little interjections are often the funniest moments. And so I'll often cut myself off or just make a little off color joke or start laughing because it's helps the guests warm up and feel like they can do that as well. Which is really what makes it really fun. But I'm also someone. I say this all the time. I'm a hehe haha ass bitch. I am always laughing. I'm really glad that people find it contagious. Cause I've definitely had people never read the Apple reviews, but so many people in my last show were like, why is she always laughing? And I was like, why do you hate funny? So it's a balance between being understandable and clear in speaking, but also, yeah, having fun laughing. As much as you would want someone to laugh when you tell them a funny story.

[Chris Duffy]

Yeah. It's also so rare that you get a good he he, ha, ha. You know, I think that's a great noise.

[Rachel Hampton]

I'm always hee heeing. It might come out at some point.

[Chris Duffy]

I will say as a comedian that the worst thing you can ever hear is when someone just goes ha. Like, I actually think a single ha is the worst noise that can be made.

[Rachel Hampton]

I don't know if I could natur. That's ha.

[Chris Duffy]

Yeah, ha. When you tell someone a joke and they go ha, that's funny. You're like, that is way worse than you saying I hate you.

[Rachel Hampton]

You're my enemy now.

[Chris Duffy]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah.

[Chris Duffy]

And I'm my own enemy when that happens. I'm like, I'm gonna go home and absolutely look in the mirror and think, why have I done the things that I've done that got me to this place?

[Rachel Hampton]

It's time to start gossiping about that person who said ha. What was their life that led them to start saying ha? You don't even. You could just make like a. Like, you don't even know.

[Chris Duffy]

That's so much better.

[Rachel Hampton]

Hmm.

[Chris Duffy]

Is so much better.

[Rachel Hampton]

I'll do the like. It's, you know, you can have other little noises of amusement that signal you're not really that amused. But to say ha.

[Chris Duffy]

No. And also, I mean, God bless the snort people. Like, one snort can make up for the ha lady for sure.

[Rachel Hampton]

One of my best friends snorts and whenever it comes out, I'm like, got you.

[Chris Duffy]

It's so good. And they're always embarrassed and you're like, don't be embarrassed. You are giving us a kiss.

[Rachel Hampton]

Snort more, please.

[Chris Duffy]

Yes, snort more.

[Rachel Hampton]

Snort more.

[Chris Duffy]

That is, if there's one thing I could bring into the world. Snort more.

[Rachel Hampton]

That's the lesson of this podcast right now.

[Chris Duffy]

I will say one time I did this room is maybe under 100 people, is kind of an intimate room. And one time I did a comedy show in a room similar size, also fully lit. And a woman in the front row just said, not for me. I'll think about that till the day I die.

[Rachel Hampton]

Low key, iconic.

[Chris Duffy]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Hampton]

Who is she?

[Chris Duffy]

She was a in the front row.

[Rachel Hampton]

If one of you said that right now.

[Chris Duffy]

A white haired queen of the Upper west side.

[Rachel Hampton]

My favorite kind of lady.

[Chris Duffy]

Absolutely. We're gonna take a quick break, but then we will be right back with more from this special live episode. Don't go anywhere. This episode is sponsored by Quince. This April, I am traveling to Vancouver for the annual TED conference. And I'll tell you what, I am going to be wearing the softest, the most luxurious sweater that I have ever worn. It is one of Quince's high quality travel essentials. I got the Mongolian cashmere sweater. It's soft, it's stylish, it's perfect for traveling. Quint's items cost 50 to 80% less than similar brands. You can get lightweight shirts and shorts from quints for $30. You can get pants for any occasion, or even a first class quality suitcase at an economy price. Now, by partnering directly with top factories, Quint's cuts out the middleman and they pass the savings onto us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics and finishes. So for your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quints. Go to quints.com human for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order that is Q U I N C E.com human to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com human will full coverage make me look cakey? Is my undertone neutral or is it cool? We get it. Finding the right foundation is hard, but with IL Maquillage, it's easy to find your perfect match online, customized for your unique skin tone and coverage needs. Plus, with Try before youe Buy, you can try your full size at home for 14 days. With over 600,000 five star reviews, this best selling foundation is going viral for a reason. Take the Power Match quiz [e-mail] Quiz I L M A K I A G E.com Quiz BetterHelp Online Therapy bought.

[Rachel Hampton]

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[Chris Duffy]

And we're back. Okay, here's a big question for you, which is what even is gossip?

[Rachel Hampton]

It's like talking about someone when they're not there. I think is probably the easiest way to define gossip, but I feel like gossip is kind of the space in between truth and fiction. And is there a point to gossip? Yeah, I think that it teaches us about how we want to be in the world. I think often when we are gossiping about people, they're doing something that we kind of disapprove of or that we think is a little weird or is different from the way that we live our lives. And I think that what sticks out to us in gossip often has to do with our own positionality in the world and that if someone was just living their life the way we lived, we wouldn't gossip about them. We would just be like, that's a person. They seem fine. But when they start doing things that are notable or in some way, I don't want to use the word deviant in some way different from the way that we expect someone to live their lives, I think is when we start gossiping.

[Chris Duffy]

People often think about gossip As a vice.

[Rachel Hampton]

Mm.

[Chris Duffy]

I think that I'm not putting words in your mouth to say that you think of it as a virtue. Can you talk about that?

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. I mean, I do think being good at gossip is a virtue because there are many, many ways to be bad at gossip. I think that you can be just in gossip for malicious intent, where you are storing up information on people to deploy at your leisure, which I kind of respect. I'm not gonna lie. But I don't think I would say that's necessarily a virtue. I think being the kind of repository of gossip, being that person that everyone comes to when they want to gossip, is just means you're a good listener. But I would say largely the gossip is kind of neutral. Like, I think that gossip can just be harmless. I think it can be harmful. I think it depends on what you're using it for, what you're doing with it, what the kind of end point of it is. So I would say, like, net neutral.

[Chris Duffy]

Let's test it out and see if it is net neutral by getting some gossip from people here. So does anyone have a piece of gossip that they would be willing to share with us? Thank you. There's a person right here. We can give the microphone to you. My name is Kate Downey. I grew up in rural Maine. My parents still live there. Very involved with the small community. The guy that plows the roads. There's one guy in the town, plows all the roads. You have to be friendly with him or he will do yours last. Wow. And so he gets a lot of presents and invites to a lot of things. The problem is he is 78, and he won't stop because it has given him so much power in the town, and he won't give up the town contract. And so a group of young people, like, a group of the young guys who are, like, in their 50s and 60s, forcibly took over. Not forcibly. Like, there was not violence, but they.

[Rachel Hampton]

Like snowplow coup is.

[Chris Duffy]

I did not. The fact that seconds into asking for gossip, we're at a snowplow coup in Maine is incredible. I am so close to doing my own podcast about it. But, yeah, they basically tricked him into giving them the keys to the snowplow, and they just started plowing instead.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, my God. I have many questions.

[Chris Duffy]

Also. What a fitting metaphor for the world we live in. An older generation holding on to perks and benefits and refusing to give up to the younger generation. And he shouldn't be driving a car.

[Rachel Hampton]

I was. That was one of the questions. Should he Be driving?

[Chris Duffy]

No. Okay, like he didn't kill anyone, but.

[Rachel Hampton]

Like he didn't do a good job.

[Chris Duffy]

My question is, if you don't give a present, you do still get your area plowed. It's just later in the plowing. It depends.

[Rachel Hampton]

I would hate to have to deal with this man, but I unfortunately do think he's an icon. When did he start? How long was his reign?

[Chris Duffy]

So my parents have lived there since right before I was born. So 36 years.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh my God.

[Chris Duffy]

And it's been the same guy the whole time? Wow. One thing that I wanna know is there must be. I'm assuming people aren't just handing off cash. So like, what is the hierarchy of bribes? Like if you give him a home baked brownie, that's better than if you give him six apples. Like, what gets you to the top of the flower?

[Rachel Hampton]

He really likes apples.

[Chris Duffy]

Could be an apple. I don't know. It's a really good question. My mom does these Norwegian Christmas cookies every and gives him like a big tin of them. And I think she also lets him hunt on our land without a permit. The snowplow man must taste blood.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh my.

[Chris Duffy]

Which is a very common thing in rural Maine of like, you can just hunt on my land. It's fine.

[Rachel Hampton]

This is a whole scheme.

[Chris Duffy]

Yes, it's an economy. Blood of the plough is going to be hard to beat. Does anyone have another specific piece of gossip that they would like to share back there?

[Rachel Hampton]

Okay.

[Chris Duffy]

Hi, I'm Davante. So one of my best friends is getting married later this year and four months before the wedding, the person who is officiating the wedding confessed their feelings to both my best friend and their partner.

[Rachel Hampton]

Wow.

[Chris Duffy]

Full disclosure.

[Rachel Hampton]

At the same time? At the same time. They were both there.

[Chris Duffy]

They were both there. In what context?

[Rachel Hampton]

How'd that conversation go?

[Chris Duffy]

You know, pretty well because they're now in a throuple. I was gonna ask which one, but it was both.

[Rachel Hampton]

I was really hoping that's where this was going. Cause when you said both friends, I was like, they could let this drive them apart. Or.

[Chris Duffy]

And if you didn't know we were recording in Brooklyn, you do now. Wow. Okay, now my obvious question. Did they go through with the ceremony then?

[Rachel Hampton]

So.

[Chris Duffy]

Well, it hasn't happened yet. Oh, so all of this has happened before the wedding? The wedding is in May. Who knows? It could crash and burn. I think they should get. I think they should get another. A new officiant and then it can just continue adding kind of like, is he still officiating?

[Rachel Hampton]

Or did they get someone else?

[Chris Duffy]

So they're still officiating.

[Rachel Hampton]

They use they, them pronouns.

[Chris Duffy]

And I'm trying to stay as far away from it as possible, even though.

[Rachel Hampton]

I'm in the brighter state. You gotta. You don't have to insert yourself, but you need to start doing individual dinners with all three members of this throuple. And just being so curious, so inquisitive, Just, how are you feeling? That seems really hard to handle. So do you need any help?

[Chris Duffy]

I also think that person should teach. They should be teaching a masterclass on communication. To have successfully created a throuple when they were confessing, that's absolutely best case scenario. It had to be while they're planning a wedding. Yes. As soon as it happened, I was like, they've been engaged for like nine months. You're waiting until like three before they actually get together to confess the feelings.

[Rachel Hampton]

Did you ask why? What prompted them? Also, wouldn't it be kind of iconic during the wedding if they said when anyone. Does anyone have any objections?

[Chris Duffy]

It's less of an objection and more of a proposition, right?

[Rachel Hampton]

Yes, why not?

[Chris Duffy]

Oh, man. I think I'd have to pass away right there on the spot.

[Rachel Hampton]

But what a way to die.

[Chris Duffy]

You're right. It would be iconic to die at someone else's wedding before they get married to a third person. Well, I certainly think that we are not gonna do better than what we have done in those two pieces of gossip. Please give a round of applause to those people. Fantastic work. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. There's a lot to digest there. We're going to take a minute to process all that and then we will be right back. Picture this. You're halfway through a DIY car fix, tools scattered everywhere, and boom. You realise you're missing a part. It's okay because, you know, whatever it is, it's on ebay. They've got everything. Brakes, headlights, cold air intakes. Whatever you need. And it's guaranteed to fit. Which means no more crossing your fingers and hoping you ordered the right thing. All the parts you need at prices you'll love. Guaranteed to fit every time. EBay. Things people love. Will full coverage make me look cakey? Is my undertone neutral? Or is it cool? We get it. Finding the right foundation is hard. But with IL Maquillage, it's easy to find your perfect match online, customized for your unique skin tone and coverage needs. Plus, with Try before youe Buy, you can try your full size at home for 14 days. With over 600,000 5 star reviews. This best selling foundation is going viral for a reason. Take the power match quiz [e-mail] quiz I l m a k I a.

[Rachel Hampton]

G e.com quiz better help. Online Therapy bought this 30 second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders, take a deep breath in and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self care. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax.

[Chris Duffy]

And we're back. I feel the most acute jealousy I've ever felt in my life that this is what you do for a living.

[Rachel Hampton]

Now I can't lie. Any day I wake up and I'm like, oh, I can't believe I have to work today. I just think, Rachel, you just get to hear people's problems all day and you don't have to fix them.

[Chris Duffy]

It's incredible. Yeah, it's a best case scenario of being a therapist. Oh, incredible. Okay, what about like, where, where do you get good gossip like a regular person? They're not. People aren't coming up. Where do you get it? On the streets? Are you on the subway listening in? Like, what's the best place for a regular person to hear some, some hot, juicy gossip?

[Rachel Hampton]

I think walking around in the world without your headphones on is really helpful. We are lucky in that we're in New York City. And truly, if you sit on the train long enough, you will encounter some good gossip. I have been in the back of an Uber and gotten good gossip. I have been walking through the street and heard someone say, you won't believe what happened. Turned my music down and said, tell me more. So I think just being alive and awake to the world helps you get good gossip. But I also think going into situations with the idea of getting gossip makes you more aware of potential gossip that you could start observing. I think every moment is kind of full of gossip. I'm sure I'll have gossip about this event afterwards.

[Chris Duffy]

Oh, this event is full of gossip. That's for sure. Yes, absolutely. It also seems like, you know, you're a writer and I think writers often have the very like perked up ears to clips of little dialogue floating around and that's the best. It's so good to do that. You know, I think that idea of like not just being zoned out or also we have the ability to fill all of our seconds these days. Like you can be listening to a podcast and then move straight from that into, like, watching a video, into being at home, like, taking a shower. And there's never, like, a moment where you're just alone or also, like, having the world intrude on you. And I think that's often where, like, the really fun stuff happens.

[Rachel Hampton]

I think so as well. I also think being, quite frankly, alone with your thoughts helps gossip. I think that the thing. The moments that your mind keeps returning to in an interaction are often the things that are most interesting. Like, why do I keep thinking about that?

[Chris Duffy]

I've heard sometimes friends who are doctors have told me that there's a. I've heard that this is called, like, the doorstop moment. I don't know if that's true, but that, like, one thing they teach you in medical school is that often if someone comes in, like, right at the end of the checkup, they'll go, like, and one more thing. And like, that was the whole point of the checkup, was so they could be like. And also, like, is it weird that I've been bleeding from my ears at night? And you're like, yeah, that's. I'm glad you asked about that. And I think, like, I'm listening to.

[Rachel Hampton]

A lot of fish.

[Chris Duffy]

But there's, like, a lot of. A lot of those moments that happen, like, at the very end where you think you're done and you have to. Like always in an interview, the single best moments are when you're like. And the interview's done, and then they say the most interesting thing.

[Rachel Hampton]

Exactly.

[Chris Duffy]

So I've learned over the years to, like, you gotta keep the tape rolling.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. I think the silence is usually what people choose to fill the silence with. Says a lot.

[Chris Duffy]

Just the thing that you made me think of, because you were talking about places where you hear gossip, is, I feel like a lot of times if you're in a crowded diner or a restaurant. This morning, I met up with a person in a diner, and we were just sitting at a totally regular diner, like, midtown Manhattan diner. And in a lull in our conversation, the person next to us, a stranger, got up and was thanking the waiter, and they said, this was the best meal I've had in my entire life. And we were both like, what happened to you in your life? That this was the best meal you've had. And, like, those are the moments where I'm. For me, my entire trip to New York City is defined by hearing that one person say that. Yeah, that's why I came here, is to hear that man. And Think like, this was just a regular dinner.

[Rachel Hampton]

What's going. Do you say this to every single waitress you've ever spoken to?

[Chris Duffy]

It didn't even occur to me that he could be lying.

[Rachel Hampton]

Oh, he could be lying.

[Chris Duffy]

Oh, he said it so genuinely that I was like, I'm not going to.

[Rachel Hampton]

Help you if a man says something. Probably lying.

[Chris Duffy]

That's true. That's true. You have. And this is something anyone who listens to normal gossip knows you have deep insight into the male psyche.

[Rachel Hampton]

Working at Defector has really helped with that because it's worker owned, but it's also a sports media website. And I know nothing about defense. I very recently learned the Chicago Bears are a bad team. And my dad loves the Chicago Bears. I was like, there's no way you're spending all your time rooting for a bad team. Turns out he was. That's gossip. But working with all of these men, I'm like, wow, there's some good to be found here.

[Chris Duffy]

Oh, yeah, well.

[Rachel Hampton]

And that really does help me move through the world.

[Chris Duffy]

That's hilarious. And also, you had a moment in one of the episodes of the podcast where you. You dissected what straight male friendship is in a way that I've never heard someone dissect it so perfectly that you were like, there's a lot of men out there who just. They just kind of zone out with their friends. And then at the end, they know no facts about their life at all, but they've been hanging out for four hours and they couldn't tell you a single thing about that other person.

[Rachel Hampton]

That's why they don't get good gossip. Whenever I am with men, I mean, it's really nice when you're going through something hard, that you can just have a dinner with two men and they won't ask you a single question about your personal life. Low key slay. But you have to ask your friends about what? Their love life. There are so many people I know who I'm like, so your friend, how does he feel about his girlfriend? They've been seeing each other for a while and he's like, couldn't fucking tell you. And I'm like, are they getting married? And you're like, I don't know. And it's like, what do you talk about all day?

[Chris Duffy]

I'm being honest. This does not reflect well on me. But I know so much more about my male friends now because I know when I'm hanging out with them, I will be held accountable when I come home that my wife will ask that question, like, I literally am hanging out with them and I'll go, she's gonna ask how their relationship is doing.

[Rachel Hampton]

Let me out.

[Chris Duffy]

You better ask, how's your relationship doing? And then I find out a lot about them.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yes, it's really helpful.

[Chris Duffy]

Yeah, that's the only reason I do it now is cause I'm like, I'm gonna have to attest afterwards.

[Rachel Hampton]

There's a start at some point.

[Chris Duffy]

Yes.

[Rachel Hampton]

And at some point you'll just be interested in how their relationship.

[Chris Duffy]

Oh, it turns out I am interested. I just was like, it didn't even occur to me that we wouldn't just talk about, like a random online comedy sketch that we saw 15 years ago for four hours straight. What is overdone, gossip wise? Like, we talked about maybe like love and cheating is a little overdone. Or what is the kind of gossip that you don't want to hear again? And the flip side of that, what kind of gossip should we be hunting for?

[Rachel Hampton]

I'm kind of tired of toxic friendship gossip. Mostly because once you get to that point, I kind of think both people are toxic. And it can you ever have the feeling where your friend's telling you a story and at first you're like, yes, pop off, queen. And then she keeps going and you're like, oh, you might be the person who's wrong here. And I don't really know if I should. I should say that right now. And that's really hard to deal with. And also, it just means you're not really getting a full story because they're looking at the friendship through such a specific lens. And they're like, this person's evil. And it's like, sounds like they just were hungry, but sure. So I'm kind of tired of people who are just like, I'm gonna cut my friend off. This is how I cut my friend off. And it's like, we only get so many friends in a lifetime. Work through it. And then gossip that I'm never tired of. Maybe because I'm not a parent and I don't foresee myself being one for a long time. But inter parent drama is very fascinating to me. Any drama that has to do with having to be around people you otherwise would not choose to spend your time around. So, like, work, family, parenting. I feel like when you're a parent, you're like, this is my kid's friend's parents, so I have to be friends with them. And you're just stuck in this situation. And I love that shit.

[Chris Duffy]

It is also interesting when you. I have a 14 month old, so, like in that first two years of parenting. And it's really interesting that I haven't had many other times in my life where you talk to someone and you're trying to feel out what is normal for you might be like, absolutely a cardinal sin for them where they're like, and of course we use what kind of diapers? Reusable or disposable?

[Rachel Hampton]

Wipes.

[Chris Duffy]

What kind of wipes? And do you let your baby feed itself or do you feed the baby Screenshot. And whatever you answer, you're like, one of these, you're going to hate me. And one, we're gonna be friends. It's so rare that you, like, declare an alliance in those ways.

[Rachel Hampton]

In other ways, it's such a minefield. And I think that's what makes it very interesting. There's a lot of politics in parenting with very anomaly, innocuous questions. And it's like decoding a new language.

[Chris Duffy]

Okay. And what is the best place for people to get gossip online? I feel like there's a lot of bad gossip online, but where do you get gossip online?

[Rachel Hampton]

I think any gossip you find online has to be taken with a grain of salt because I think so much of gossip and what makes us good is trusting the person, the gossip bearer. You trust their point of view, you trust that they're telling you the important details. So I think of gossiping online less as finding someone to tell me something and more as like, I'm gonna get 27 different perspectives of one moment and then I'm gonna figure out what. I think this is how I watch Love is Blind. Basically where I watch the show and then I'm like, love is blind. Subreddit love is blind. YouTube video breaking down what happened? Love is blind. Twitter. Love is blind. Chat with my friends. And then by the end of it, I'm like, now I know how I feel about this. So I would say gossip should be found. If you're gonna go on Reddit, just if you don't know those people, don't trust them. You can read what they say, but don't take that on board as your own. That's what I would say. Most of it's probably lies.

[Chris Duffy]

I mean, that's extremely good advice for just being online in general. You can read what they say, but don't trust it.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah. And that's fine. I think there's sometimes something not being true makes it more fucking, but you have to know that it's not true. It's like when you know you're being delusional, you have to know you're being delusional.

[Chris Duffy]

And yet if you know you're being delusional in some ways you're not delusional.

[Rachel Hampton]

It's active choice.

[Chris Duffy]

It's an active choice. To be delusional is now that is, I think, a perfect place to end, which is sometimes you have to actively choose to be delusional.

[Rachel Hampton]

And I do it every single day. Thank you, Chris.

[Chris Duffy]

Thank you, Rachel. Thank you so much for being on the show. That is it for this episode of how to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Rachel Hampton. The new season of Normal Gossip premieres Wednesday, April 9. Do not miss it. I am your host, Chris Duffy and you can find more from me, including my weekly newsletter and other projects@chris duffycomedy.com you didn't hear this from me, but how to Be a Better Human is put together by a team filled with intricate drama and messiness. On the TED side, we've got Daniela Ballarat, Banban Cheng, Chloe Cha, Sha Brooks, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lott, Antonio Ley, and Joseph De Bruyne. This episode was fact checked by Julia Dickerson and Matteus Salas. For them, gossip is an incorrectly cited journal article in a bibliography. They cannot believe it. On the PRX side, their ears perk up every single time you say something juicy. Morgan Flannery, Nora Gill, Patrick Grant and Jocelyn Gonzalez. Thanks again to you for listening. You are the listeners. You make this show exist. Please tell everyone you know about our show. Spread the word. Whisper it, shout it. Write it on a bathroom wall. Share this episode with a friend or a family member who you think would enjoy it. We will be back next week with even more how to Be a Better Human. Until then, take care and thanks for listening. Strap in. You're in the race with F1TV Premium. See what the race director sees with custom multi view. Watch every jaw dropping moment in Live 4K UHD across up to 6 screens. Uninterrupted experience. Ultimate live immersion with F1TV Premium. Available on selected devices. Race the rudders. Race the sails.

[Rachel Hampton]

Raise the sails.

[Chris Duffy]

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[Rachel Hampton]

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[Chris Duffy]

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[Rachel Hampton]

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