Podcast Summary:

How to Be a Better Human – Interview: The Razor-Thin Line Between Contagion and Connection w/ Dan Taberski
Aired: December 29, 2025

Overview

In this episode, host Chris Duffy features Dan Taberski’s gripping TED talk about the phenomenon of mass psychogenic illness—commonly referred to as “mass hysteria”—using the 2011 outbreak in Leroy, New York, as a springboard to examine the dynamics between illness, stress, social connection, and the role of storytelling in how we understand health. Taberski draws connections between cases through history, from medieval convents to modern police bodycams, and underscores how our minds and bodies are profoundly, and sometimes mysteriously, linked.

An in-depth interview with Taberski and Dr. Shoshana Ungerleider follows, delving into cultural, gendered, and psychological nuances, emphasizing empathy and curiosity over certainty when confronting health mysteries.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Leroy, NY "Tic Outbreak" (02:56–07:00)

• In 2011, several high school girls in Leroy developed sudden tics, stutters, and spasms reminiscent of Tourette’s syndrome.
• Initial reactions in the community were disbelief—accusations of faking (“were they making it up?”), which gave way to anxiety and confusion when symptoms mounted in double digits.
• Extensive physical testing (for Lyme disease, heavy metals, water, air, and mold) found no cause, fueling wild theories (e.g., “bad batch of tampons” [05:10]).
• The final “official” diagnosis: mass psychogenic illness (mass hysteria).
  • “She basically said, oh, well, it's all in your head. You're fine. How are you as a medical professional going to look your patient in the eye and be like, you're fine. Stop thinking about it.” (Emily, 05:41)
  • Many affected girls and their peers rebelled against the notion: “I thought, that’s bullshit. I don’t believe that… I just don’t know how to believe that.” (Jessica, 06:18)
• Taberski's thesis: We need to “learn how to believe in mass hysteria,” accepting that these illnesses are both real and social.

Mass Psychogenic Illness: The Science and Social Dynamics (07:00–13:06)

• Definition: Real symptoms spreading rapidly through connected groups, without organic causes (no physical findings).
  • “It's a very specific type of contagion that says a lot about how we're connected as people.” (Taberski, 06:27)
• Common factors: Underlying trauma/stress; tight social bonds; “not random.”
• Historic examples:
  • Nuns meowing in convents (Middle Ages).
  • The Salem Witch Trials, now thought to plausibly be mass psychogenic.
• Modern cases:
  • The 2001 post-9/11 “mystery rash” in schools, likely linked to collective anxiety over anthrax scares.
• Social spread: “They tend to happen at the stress points in the culture… in the fissures of society.” (Taberski, 09:30)

Policing, Fentanyl, and Modern Media Vectors (09:53–11:50)

• Police officers increasingly report “overdoses” from simply being near fentanyl, with symptoms captured on body cams:
  • “I feel weird, man. …His legs are tingling. …My toes are tingling.” (09:53)
• Of 332 cases tracked, only one had toxicological evidence—and even that’s unconfirmed.
• Medical consensus: It's “near impossible” to overdose from mere exposure this way.
• “It only happens in this very specific, preexisting social group: police officers, male police officers, incidentally.” (Taberski, 11:05)
• Spread via video: seeing these incidents on bodycams becomes a vector, creating a loop of mimicry.

Connection, Contagion, and the Case of Rose (13:06–15:10)

• Rose, a student with pre-existing Tourette’s, describes how her symptoms worsened during the outbreak: “So I had a tic where I would punch myself right here in the face… I was literally beating the shit out of myself.” (13:37)
• At Tourette’s camp, people “pick up” each other's tics, but the experience is framed as joyful and connecting, not distressing.
  • “Does that feel good or bad?” “Oh, I love it… because you are having the best time and you are around your people.” (14:17)
  • “At Rose’s Tourette’s camp, when the contingent comes on, they let it happen. They don't hold back.” (14:23)
• Key Point: The line between contagious illness and community can be razor-thin—the same force can be distressing or deeply bonding.
  • “The line between contagion and connection is a thin one. Sometimes it's hardly there at all.” (15:12)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I just don’t know how to believe that.” (Jessica, on being diagnosed with hysteria, 06:25)
  Captures the psychological struggle to accept an intangible diagnosis.

• “Mass psychogenic illness is… a very specific type of contagion that says a lot about how we're connected as people.” (Dan Taberski, 06:27)
  Highlighting the social nature of unexplained illnesses.

• "The spread… tends to be a function of how connected the victims are to each other." (Taberski, 07:50)

• “They tend to happen at the stress points in the culture. Or as one expert put it to me, they tend to happen in the fissures of society.” (Taberski, 09:40)

• “You can pick up other people’s tics. They’re literally sharing their symptoms… Even if just for one weird, humid, buggy weekend in the summer, they're able to revel in those symptoms and really appreciate the connection that it gives them.” (Taberski and Rose, 14:41–15:06)

Interview Highlights: Dan Taberski and Dr. Shoshana Ungerleider

On Choosing the Story & Linking Cases (17:53–18:59)

• Taberski was drawn to Havana syndrome, which, like the Leroy episode, features symptoms without a biological explanation—but carries political (espionage) overtones. He noticed a discomfort with the idea of mass hysteria in both “traditionally female” (Leroy) and “traditionally male” (Havana Syndrome) contexts.

Stress, Trauma, and Susceptibility (19:16–19:41)

• Outbreaks often arise where there is shared or individual trauma. “When something like these symptoms and this contagion comes along, their stress or trauma sort of makes them more susceptible to it, for sure.” (Taberski, 19:27)

Gender, Stigma, and Dismissal (21:44–24:14)

• Gender bias remains entrenched: “Hysteria, the root of the word, is Greek for uterus… Women have been called hysterical for centuries, and it’s obviously still a huge problem in terms of being taken seriously in medical situations.” (22:09)
• Yet Taberski urges seeing women as “standing in for the larger world.” The stigmatized experiences of women can illuminate broader issues.

Mind-Body Blurring & The Limits of Diagnosis (24:32–31:17)

• Why we resist psychogenic explanations: “Because you can’t see what’s going on in your mind… it feels a little bit more like faith… It’s just a really hard thing to wrap your mind around.” (Taberski, 24:49)
• For both patients and doctors, “it’s hard to make [the diagnosis] until it’s almost over, until after the fact” (31:17) due to fear of missing a real physical illness.

The Power of Storytelling & Empathy (32:07–33:18)

• Taberski advocates for “sitting down and talking to people with empathy and an open heart and an open mind to find out what they think happened… I think no answer or a complicated answer is the most interesting answer.” (32:19)
• Curiosity, rather than certainty, is the journalist’s greatest tool: “I’m comfortable with just hearing what people think happened to them without me having to say that’s right or wrong.” (31:37)

Final Takeaways: Connection, Mystery, and Sitting with Uncertainty (33:38–34:19)

• Taberski: “My favorite [definition] is hysterical laughter… You are having a contagious experience, and that contagion is really a reflection of your connection to other people. And to just be able to sit in that and just be wowed by it, I think is part of the point.” (33:38)
• Ungerleider: “I love that.” (34:10)
• Taberski: “I don’t know what’s happening, but we’re connected, and it’s a wild place to look at the world from.” (34:11)

Episode Structure and Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | | --------------------------------------------------------------- | ----------- | | Leroy tic outbreak story | 02:56–07:00 | | Mass hysteria definition, social roots, historic cases | 07:00–09:53 | | Fentanyl panic & bodycam phenomenon | 09:53–11:50 | | The lived experience: Rose and Tourette’s | 13:06–15:12 | | Dan Taberski interview (origins, medicine/society/gender) | 17:29–34:22 | | Takeaways on mind-body, empathy, the unknown | 33:38–34:22 |

Tone and Style

• Candid, compassionate, and lightly irreverent, especially in Taberski’s reflections and the inclusion of direct, unfiltered quotes from those affected.
• Direct and personal, inviting listeners to grapple with the discomfort of medical uncertainty.
• Empathetic storytelling, with a persistent emphasis on listening over labeling.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode takes a mysterious medical event and turns it into an investigation not just of illness but of society, psychology, and belonging. Through riveting narrative, real voices, and vulnerable interviews, Taberski and Ungerleider illuminate how “contagion” can leave people disconnected and dismissed—or sometimes, strangely, more deeply bonded. Ultimately, the episode urges us to hold space for what we don’t understand, approach each other with empathy, and stay curious about the places where science, story, and humanity blur.