Podcast Summary: "Work advice from the world’s favorite couples therapist w/ Master Fixer Dr. Orna Guralnik | from Fixable"

Podcast: How to Be a Better Human (from TED)
Episode Release: December 22, 2025
Host(s): Anne Morris & Frances Fry (featuring Dr. Orna Guralnik)

Overview of Episode Theme

This episode brings together workplace experts Anne Morris (leadership coach) and Frances Fry (Harvard Business School professor) with renowned psychoanalyst and couples therapist Dr. Orna Guralnik (star of Showtime's "Couples Therapy"). The conversation explores what lessons from couples therapy can be applied to work relationships, team dynamics, and self-improvement at work—revealing surprising overlaps and offering concrete tools to repair, nurture, and optimize professional collaborations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Translating Couples Therapy to Work Life

• Main Idea: The emotional skills used to navigate intimate relationships are deeply relevant to building healthy, effective workplaces.
• Quote: "How to build and rebuild trust. How to repair relationships. How to not just tolerate differences, but really lean in and value them." — Anne Morris (04:09)
• Dr. Guralnik’s Core Principle:
  • "A lot of what we do in the world is figure out how to work through difference... even when we’re not interacting with other people, we interact with ourselves because we have different parts that are often in conflict." (06:24)

2. Dealing with Difference: Curiosity Over Judgment

• Tactical Advice: Shift mindset from right/wrong or better/worse to seeing difference as an opportunity for curiosity and inquiry.
• Quote: "If we're different, one of us is right, one of us is wrong, one of us is better—which is most of the time flawed. So to convince ourselves to move out of that... into a state of curiosity." — Dr. Orna Guralnik (07:28)
• Coaching for Listeners:
  • Take a metaphorical (or literal) deep breath, decrease urgency, make space for the other’s perspective. (09:25)
  • "Imagine yourself taking up a little less space... and making a little more space for who you're talking to." (09:25)
• Frances’s Reflection: Learning to balance taking up space for yourself and yielding space to others, creating a true dialogue. (10:13)

3. Systems Thinking: The Relationship as Its Own Entity

• Insight:
  • "A relationship is more than its parts... you're creating a system, and the system has its own properties and it needs attending." — Dr. Orna Guralnik (11:56)
• Hopeful Angle: Even one person can begin to transform a relationship dynamic at work by setting the tone for communication and care. (13:05)

4. Practical Tactics for Office Relationships

• With Bosses:

  • The onus is often on the employee to shape the relationship. "You don’t need a two-way street here. There are plenty of things you can do to create a system of communication." (13:46)
  • Example: Become a better listener; invite direct feedback; create conditions for open dialogue. (14:40)
  • "The more you create an environment of proper deep listening... it goes both ways." (15:04)

• With Teams:

  • Teams function best when members’ roles are clear and there is a shared sense of purpose, not competition.
  • "The team ideally wants to experience itself as a unit, as a functional working group, where the importance of the individual is not what's at stake, but the unit, the system as a whole." (16:00)

5. The Practice of Repair: Rupture and Rebuilding Trust

• Key Understanding: All relationships are cycles of rupture and repair.
  • "There’s a saying... all relationships are a constant rupture and repair. Constant." — Dr. Orna Guralnik (17:54)
• Frances’s Reflection: Trust is often treated as fragile and irreparable when, in fact, it can be rebuilt stronger than before. (18:08)

6. Knowing When to Leave a Job or Team

• Coaching:
  • If repeated efforts to repair and improve the relationship yield no change and leave “a bad feeling,” it might be time to leave. (19:05–20:44)
  • "If you feel like you’re able, you have problems... If you feel like you can move the needle, you might not need to bring in an additional voice. But if you feel stuck... then an additional voice might be helpful." — Dr. Orna Guralnik (42:44)

7. Skills: Deep Listening

• Technique:
  • Deep listening is about quieting your urge to respond and really striving to understand the essence of the other’s message, not just the details. (21:01)
• Practical Step: "When you can repeat back the other person's point to their satisfaction, you’ve probably gone through the act of deep listening." — Frances Fry (22:27)
• Orna’s Add: Not just parroting words, but summarizing the essence of their meaning. (22:56)

8. Romantic & Professional Partnerships: Navigating the Overlap

• Benefits: Working with your romantic partner offers richer perspective and exposure to new facets of each other.
• Challenges: Power dynamics, competition, and “discourse confusion” (using work language in romance and vice versa) can be toxic if not managed.
• Advice: Learn to shift modes and language depending on domain (work/domestic/romantic); avoid “optimizing romance.” (24:57)

9. Modeling Vulnerability & Lifelong Learning

• Behind the Scenes of Couples Therapy Show:
  • Orna’s real consulting with peers is included to show continual learning, not “know-it-all” expertise.
  • "Relationships are based on not knowing and learning from other people and being in conversation." (30:44)

10. Unusual Tools: The Therapy Dog!

• Orna’s dog Nico is deliberately part of her therapy practice, providing comfort, emotional connection, and a loving, nonverbal presence. (32:31–33:14)

11. Dr. Orna’s Top Two Tips for Better Work Relationships

• Express Gratitude: "Express gratitude to whoever you’re working with about something real... you're building the field." (34:57)
• Listen Deeply: "Decide, okay, I'm going to listen... It's all about introducing a spirit of generosity, inclusiveness, recognition." (34:57)
• Build the Field: Cultivate a “field in which you want to live” by setting the tone, even if others aren’t on the same page (35:47).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 04:09 | "How to build and rebuild trust. How to repair relationships. How to not just tolerate differences, but really lean in and value them." | Anne Morris | | 06:24 | "A lot of what we do in the world is figure out how to work through difference..." | Dr. Orna Guralnik | | 07:28 | "One of the things that happens when we’re faced with difference is ...our mind tends to go towards, 'if we're different, one of us is right, one of us is wrong,' which is most of the time flawed." | Dr. Orna Guralnik | | 09:25 | "Imagine yourself taking up a little less space... and making a little more space for who you're talking to." | Dr. Orna Guralnik | | 15:04 | "The more you create an environment of proper deep listening... it goes both ways." | Dr. Orna Guralnik | | 17:54 | "All relationships are a constant rupture and repair. Constant." | Dr. Orna Guralnik | | 20:44 | "If you feel like it’s not moving, go, move on." | Dr. Orna Guralnik | | 21:01 | "Deep listening requires...quieting down your wish to speak." | Dr. Orna Guralnik | | 22:27 | "When they can repeat back the other person's point to the other person's satisfaction—you've probably gone through the act of deep listening." | Frances Fry | | 24:59 | "We do not want to be optimizing romance." | Anne Morris & Dr. Orna Guralnik | | 34:57 | "Express gratitude...Listen. It's all about introducing...generosity, inclusiveness, recognition." | Dr. Orna Guralnik | | 35:47 | "A field in which you want to live." | Anne Morris |

Important Timestamps

• 06:24: Dr. Guralnik on dealing with difference in all aspects of life
• 09:25: Dr. Guralnik’s tactical advice to shift to curiosity and make space for others
• 11:56: Concept of systems thinking in relationships
• 14:40: How to improve a relationship with your boss (becoming a better listener)
• 16:00: Team dynamics and roles, avoiding destructive competition
• 17:54: The rupture-repair model of trust
• 19:05: When to leave a work relationship or team
• 21:01: Steps and brain science behind deep listening
• 22:27: Frances’s "repeat-back" test for deep listening
• 24:59: Shifting discourse between professional, domestic, and romantic domains
• 30:44: Dr. Guralnik’s commitment to vulnerability and peer consultation on TV
• 32:31: Role and rationale for Dr. Guralnik’s therapy dog, Nico
• 34:57: Dr. Guralnik’s two most actionable tips for workplace relationships

Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is thoughtful, inquisitive, hopeful, and grounded. Anne and Frances are playful and self-effacing, while Dr. Orna is warm, candid, and gently philosophical—quick to offer wisdom but always with humility. The overall tone is encouraging: real change is possible, often with small, practical shifts in how we show up for each other.

Core Takeaways

• Approach difference with curiosity, not judgment.
• Even one person can begin to shift the “system” of a work relationship or team.
• Deep, attentive listening is powerful—and more accessible than many think.
• Regularly express authentic gratitude and recognition to build a work “field” you want to inhabit.
• Rupture and repair are natural cycles in all relationships—don't fear the break, focus on the repair.
• Pay attention to the languages you use in different life spheres; don’t “optimize” your romance or bring business jargon home.
• If trying to improve things at work isn’t moving the needle, it may be time to move on.
• Vulnerability, learning, and seeking counsel aren’t weaknesses—they are signs of wisdom and maturity.