Podcast Summary: "Your Best Self is the Same as Your Worst Self" (w/ Heather Havrilesky)
How to Be a Better Human – Hosted by Chris Duffy
Release Date: June 9, 2025
Introduction to Heather Havrilesky
In this episode, comedian Chris Duffy welcomes Heather Havrilesky, a celebrated writer known for her memoir Foreverland, and her advice columns Ask Polly and Ask Molly. Heather delves into the intricacies of being authentic, embracing the messiness of the human experience, and navigating the challenges of self-expression in both personal and public spheres.
Embracing Authenticity and Complexity
Heather emphasizes the importance of being honest with oneself and others, highlighting that authenticity often involves embracing contradictions and imperfections. She reflects on her own journey, acknowledging periods of insecurity and self-doubt that led her to a deeper understanding of herself.
"We wouldn't always make sense. But that messiness and that complexity, that's exactly what today's guest, Heather Haverlesky, is all about."
— Chris Duffy [00:00]
Personal Journey and Self-Awareness
Heather shares her personal transformation, moving from a self-described "sociopathic streak" in her younger years to a more self-aware and introspective individual. She discusses the impact of major life changes, such as marriage and motherhood, on her identity and writing.
"I recognized that I was very insecure, a little narcissistic. I had a lot of different problems. I was definitely a drinker. I wasn't necessarily completely over the top with any of these things. I just didn't know what was going on, and I didn't know who I was."
— Heather Havrilesky [06:20]
The Role of Humor in Self-Expression
Both Heather and Chris explore how humor serves as a coping mechanism and a tool for honest self-reflection. Heather explains that her ability to joke about herself is crucial to her writing process, allowing her to present a more relatable and authentic persona.
"You can't really make a good joke about yourself unless it's true. Right. No one laughs when you're like, I am so put together and I have my life on track."
— Chris Duffy [08:45]
"I wouldn't want to write an advice column where I didn't mock myself, make fun of myself, joke about things. It would be excruciating for me."
— Heather Havrilesky [09:21]
Balancing Public Persona and Private Self
Heather discusses the challenges of maintaining authenticity while engaging in self-branding, especially in the age of social media and public scrutiny. She criticizes the pressure to conform to a singular brand identity, advocating instead for embracing one's multifaceted nature.
"We cannot be tempted to turn ourselves into brands because we're hollowing ourselves out. The more you bring your full self to anything you do, the happier that thing will make you and the more satisfying and the more brilliant the thing will be."
— Heather Havrilesky [14:35]
Writing Process and Finding an Authentic Voice
The conversation delves into Heather's writing process, emphasizing the importance of capturing genuine emotions and experiences. She describes her method of writing first drafts based on raw emotions and later refining them without losing their authentic essence.
"What I want to recommend is fast processing. Fast."
— Heather Havrilesky [29:52]
"That is what I'm living for when I'm reading people's work."
— Chris Duffy [31:36]
Critique of Self-Improvement Culture
Heather offers a critical perspective on the self-improvement industry, arguing that it often induces shame and anxiety by promoting an unattainable standard of constant personal growth. She advocates for accepting oneself as a complex mix of strengths and flaws.
"Self care is bullshit. You know, every day you should, you know, whatever, but everything is a balance, okay?"
— Heather Havrilesky [40:55]
"Creative people have very naturally ambitious. Creative people have a lot of struggles for a very good reason. Because you can't be Zen and be ambitious at the same time. You actually have to be bothered by things."
— Heather Havrilesky [45:15]
Advice for Aspiring Writers
Heather provides guidance for new writers striving to find their unique voice. She encourages embracing influences from favorite authors without imitating them, trusting one's creative instincts, and allowing authenticity to guide the writing process.
"You trust them to run with the ball, you know? And then when you trust yourself, when you see that, it teaches you to trust yourself to run with the ball when you're feeling it."
— Heather Havrilesky [38:19]
"If you want, like, how do you know something's done? How do you get to the place where you're not over, you know, second guessing yourself?"
— Heather Havrilesky [26:58]
Conclusion: Embracing the Full Self
The episode concludes with Heather reinforcing the message that true happiness and fulfillment come from embracing all aspects of oneself—the light and the dark, the ambitious and the flawed. She emphasizes the importance of authenticity over striving for an idealized version of oneself.
"We cannot be tempted to turn ourselves into brands because we're hollowing ourselves out. The more you bring your full self to anything you do, the happier that thing will make you and the more satisfying and the more brilliant the thing will be."
— Heather Havrilesky [14:35]
Heather's insights encourage listeners to accept their complexities and contradictions, fostering a more genuine and fulfilling approach to personal growth and self-expression.
Notable Quotes:
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"Polly is like that, too. You know, I just, like, go on too long. I mean, I think that the main thing for me is just, is there momentum? Does it feel like it's getting bogged down like a book, like a heavy book? Or does it feel like there's something important to say here."
— Heather Havrilesky [32:29] -
"The funniest moments come from not trying to make a joke, but it just, like, it exists because you're being honest."
— Chris Duffy [30:53]
This episode provides a profound exploration of authenticity, personal growth, and the balance between public personas and private selves, offering valuable insights for anyone striving to be a better human.