Ep. 434: Demystifying Interior Design with Gordon Dunning

Summary

How to Decorate Podcast – Episode 434

Demystifying Interior Design with Gordon Dunning

Release Date: October 7, 2025
Hosts: Caroline (Marketing), Taryn (Product Designer), Liz (Creative)
Guests: Latham Gordon & Kate Dunning, Gordon Dunning Interior Design

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Ballard Designs team welcomes back Latham Gordon and Kate Dunning—the duo behind Atlanta’s Gordon Dunning interior design firm—to demystify the process of working with an interior designer. The conversation unpacks every stage, from before you hire a designer to what happens after install day. Latham and Kate share hilariously candid insights about communication, budgeting, relationship dynamics, and the realities of the design business, all while emphasizing the importance of personality, clear communication, and authentic storytelling in the design process. The episode is full of practical advice for anyone considering hiring a designer, whether for a single room or a whole house project.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Hiring a Designer Feels Mysterious

• There’s no single, uniform process for working with a designer, making it seem mysterious or “behind the curtain.” Every designer works differently, so expectations and methods vary.
• [02:02] Caroline: “Because so many designers work differently, there’s not a right answer...it feels secretive.”
• [02:21] Latham: “It can be very irritating to shop for a designer because it’s not apples to apples. So, let’s talk about that.”

2. Preparing to Work with a Designer

• Start by identifying your priorities: timeline, aesthetic, budget, process style, etc.
• Use resources like social media, local events, and especially personal referrals to scope out designers who might be a fit.
• It’s more about vibe and process fit than just aesthetic.
• [04:00] Kate: “Thinking about how you work with other professionals. When do you feel heard? When have those relationships gone well?... If somebody—I could get an update every week, or I prefer it when we get to have phone calls, or people who validate me or who listen or talk in pictures...”

3. The Interview Process: Designer Meets Client

• Both sides are interviewing each other. It’s expected—and healthy—for clients to interview multiple designers.
• Be transparent; designers are used to it.
• The initial process typically starts with email, moves to a phone call to gauge personality, and then an in-home walkthrough if there’s mutual fit.
• [09:06] Latham: “It is important to interview multiple folks. And it’s totally understandable. We all understand you’re probably doing that.”

4. Money & Budget Conversations

• Be open and “get cozy” discussing your budget. Even if it’s an estimate or a range, sharing it up front saves time and helps designers respect your limits.
• Pricing structure varies: some designers are fee-based, some hourly, etc. Ask about this early.
• It’s normal (and okay) to have your project paused until your budget matches your goals.
• [15:35] Kate: “If people give a bigger budget, they’re like, ‘They’ll just work towards that budget, and I could have gotten it for less.’ Totally valid fear...I would probably give a range just like we are.”
• [16:26] Kate: “That’s uncomfortable. But you’ve got to get comfortable doing it, because what is going to be worse is you’ve gone through the design process, paid for that design process, which is already thousands, and then it can’t happen at the end.”

5. Process: From ‘Love/Hate’ Meeting to Install

• Gordon Dunning’s unique “Love Hate” meeting asks clients to react candidly to samples (fabrics, layouts, tile, etc.), which sets the tone for open dialogue--and saves costly indecision later.
• Clients are encouraged to be brutally honest: “Say it now!”
• [28:13] Latham: “Love Hate is the first one. Most people might call it ideation, but we call it Love Hate because...we need them to say ugly things about tile, fabric, layouts, whatever it is, because—say it now, because once we get here, you got to pay extra to say no or say, ‘That’s ugly.’”
• Everyone with a meaningful opinion should attend “Love Hate,” especially partners or family members who might later object or have veto power.
• [23:14] Kate: “If [your partner] is going to have veto power, he needs to be doing it during the process…It could be your mama, could be your best friend…Whoever is going to completely take the wind out of your sails—they need to be a part of the process.”

6. Communication is Key

• The relationship is very communication-heavy; designers serve a customer service role as much as a creative one.
• Discuss communication preferences—email vs. phone, frequency of updates, etc.—and make sure it matches yours.
• [78:03] Kate: “Communicate as much as you want to. Don’t text and don't DM. That’s a big, big for us...email all you want…I can’t find it [in my email] if it’s DMed!”
• [07:08] Caroline: “It’s a really communication-heavy relationship. You all are also in the customer service business, like, oh yeah, big time.”

7. What If You Don’t Like the Result?

• It’s rare for an entire finished project to disappoint, thanks to layered feedback. But designers should have a clause for returns or mistakes.
• [45:13] Kate: “We have had elements not been liked. Not the whole thing, thank God. I think that’s everyone’s worst nightmare, the client obviously, but us too…”
• The possibility of “install day regret” is mitigated by iterative meetings, honest feedback, and by encouraging all stakeholders to attend design meetings.

8. Handling Existing Furniture

• Good designers will work with your existing pieces if they matter to you. The design fees are similar whether you use new or old, since the planning and layout is the same.
• [57:22] Kate: “That’s a common misconception—designers are like, get rid of it all…We will absolutely use your existing stuff and your mama’s existing stuff and whatever, because that is what tells the story and makes it function and gives it life and depth and all that sort of stuff.”
• [60:04] Kate: “If they come with existing furniture... you procure less furniture... But we’re still designing the same amount of stuff, whether it’s for free, the table is free or not.”

9. Art, Accessories, and the “Finishing Touches”

• Art selection is handled as collaboratively or designer-led as a client wishes.
• There is typically an accessory budget, which is approved up front and finalized post-installation.
• [68:07] Latham: “There's always an accessory budget in the invoice…We have taken notes during the design process and in their questionnaire about things that tell their story. Like little weird things we love, little weird things that we get to add.”

10. The Realities of Scope, Timelines, and Minimums

• Be upfront about a firm’s minimums—some only take full house projects; some work room by room over time.
• Timeline and involvement adjust based on whether it’s a gut renovation or decorating a single space. Processes are largely the same, but larger scopes require more meetings and longer timelines.
• Install days for decorating-only projects can feel like an “HGTV reveal,” but Gordon Dunning leaves before clients return, so they can have their own reactions—no performance pressure.

11. Common Misconceptions & Tips

• Not all designers want to “take over” and do everything their way—good ones care deeply about your story and preferences.
• Designers aren’t judging the state of your home at your first meeting—“If your house was perfect, we would not have a job.” [82:26]
• There are few “quick questions”—changing one thing often impacts many others, and thoughtful changes take time.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On communication style:
  [77:59] Kate: “Don’t text and don’t dm. That’s a big, big for us…It’s just so we can find your information and care about you.”
• On honesty during the process:
  [28:13] Latham: “We call it Love Hate because we work with a lot of nice people, and we need them to say ugly things about tile, fabric, layouts, whatever it is, because—say it now.”
• On bringing your partner or key decision-makers into the process:
  [23:14] Kate: “If he has an opinion, he needs to come to our love hate meeting. He needs to come to the very first design meeting, say he loves and hates stuff, and then he can be Smith and go on.”
• On the personal nature of the relationship:
  [05:30] Latham: “It is a very personal relationship. So really thinking through those things and taking your time on the front end and not rushing in will make a huge difference in your experience.”
• On expectations:
  [13:20] Kate: “Don’t be afraid to say what your priorities are, because we can’t do our job well if we don’t know all the details of your goals.”
• On the aftermath of an install:
  [42:10] Kate: “We want you to go and, like, sit and celebrate it with your family and be like, oh, this is what… that’s who it’s for. We’re not who it’s for.”
• On budgeting:
  [76:42] Latham: “We do try to talk about money a lot throughout the process. It’s really important that we’re comfortable with it...it’s only one of the only ways we can do our job well.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|:--------------:| | Why the designer process seems secretive | 02:00 – 03:00 | | How to prepare before reaching out | 02:44 – 06:06 | | The importance of communication fit | 04:00 – 05:30 | | Budget transparency & financial structure | 05:08 – 17:37 | | Interviewing designers: what to ask & expect | 09:00 – 15:00 | | The “Love/Hate” meeting & feedback process | 27:17 – 35:54 | | Managing partners & outside opinions | 22:21 – 24:32 | | Handling install day and client reactions | 41:13 – 44:09 | | What happens if you dislike a result? | 45:01 – 47:39 | | Working with existing furniture & art | 57:03 – 63:08 | | Accessory budgets & finishing touches | 68:07 – 73:56 | | Common misconceptions & “quick questions” | 80:06 – 82:49 | | Designers are not judging your home | 82:09 – 82:49 |

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Tips & Takeaways

• Prioritize personality and process fit over just visual style.
• Be ready to discuss money openly and early.
• Involve anyone with veto power or strong opinions from the very start.
• Expect clear, regular communication—figure out what style works for you and your designer.
• Engage fully; your feedback, honesty, and story are essential to a successful collaboration.
• Designers welcome your existing pieces; don’t preemptively purge or hide family treasures.
• There’s rarely a truly “quick question”—embrace the process for thoughtful, cohesive results.

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Where to Find Gordon Dunning

• Instagram: @gordondunning
• Website: gordondunning.com
• Newsletter & consultations available via their site.

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For more decorating tips, podcast notes, and to submit your own design dilemma, visit howtodecorate.com/podcast.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to how to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team. And I'm Taryn, and I'm a product designer.

[B]

I'm Liz. I head up the creative team.

[A]

We're your hosts. Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks, and tales from interior designers, stylists, and other talents in the design world.

[B]

Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at.

[A]

The end of each episode.

[B]

We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email [e-mail] now, on with the show.

[A]

Yay. We have two of our favorites back. Kate Dunning and Latham Gordon of Gordon Dunning.

[B]

This is.

[A]

And y' all have been on the show several times. TV show Design School with qvc. You are interior designers here in Atlanta. You've been in House Beautiful Atlanta Homes and Lifestyle, Atlanta magazine. You were the next wave designers for House Beautiful. You've had many accolades, but we're also friends, and we love having you here. And we're excited because we're going to talk about working with an interior designer. What does that process look like? What are. What should you expect from an interior designer and that partnership? What is the timeline like? We're going to get into all the nitty gritty, and y' all are going to walk us through it. And I know we're going to have lots of giggles because y' all are hilarious.

[B]

So, yeah.

[A]

Welcome back. Yay.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[C]

It's been a lifelong dream of mine to be funny, so we'll see if I can come to play with it.

[B]

She'll get there one day.

[C]

Have not yet achieved, but thank you all so much for having us. We're so excited about this because I feel like, you know, we say in our studio all the time there are no dumb questions. And so being able to help anybody out there who's entertaining, getting designer feel more comfortable in that process, I think helps everyone.

[B]

So thank you. Yeah. It feels like such an intimidating thing. It's such a industry shrouded in mystery.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm looking behind the curtain today, and.

[A]

I, you know, I. I don't know that it's intentional, but because so many design designers work differently, there's not a right answer. And so then it feels like it doesn't make sense to, like, it's not a. It's not a uniform process, and therefore it feels secretive.

[B]

And that's why it's Very annoying.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, I can imagine we have our process and we have the same thing every day, but yeah, it's. I would imagine it's very irritating to shop for a designer because it's not apples to apples, right? Yeah. So we'll talk about that. Yes, yes, we have to have a whole discussion. So let's talk about the pregame. What are some things that, that we need to do before we start thinking about a designer that we want to work with?

[C]

I think the most accessible thing is. Well, first think about what are you going to be your priorities, whether that is timeline, aesthetic, price point, you name it. Just be thinking about those as you dive into Instagram, dive onto websites, use any of your resources that are local. If you're in the Southeast, looking at who's coming to Atlanta, Decorative Arts center and speaking or any other book signing events in the area, and that can happen in any, you know, area of the country that you're in. But finding out who's coming in and going and watching folks speak, hearing what they have to say on their panels, going down deep, dive rabbit holes on.

[A]

Instagram, listen to their podcast episode now.

[B]

Interview past clients that they've had. Yeah, I think a lot of foes, folks think that the first thing to do is do Pinterest and know what your vision is and know what your aesthetic is. That's actually the part we got down, we got to have. And there's so many talented designers in Atlanta, if we're talking about Atlanta. But everywhere there's so many. How the personality, the vibe and process are really where it starts to define whether you're going to have a good process or a good design experience. Experience. So thinking about how you work with other professionals in your life, when do you feel heard by your doctor? When do you feel heard by your child's teacher? How does. How have those relationships gone well? And defining that and being like, if somebody. If I could get an update every week, or I prefer it when we get to have phone calls or people who validate me or who listen or talk in pictures or have lots of meetings, what types of action items would you like in that process that feel good to you?

[C]

Because there's the aesthetic side, but there's the experience side. And sometimes those come together. And sometimes, you know, you've got to work to find that. Do you feel more comfortable with an hourly structure or a fee structure? And, um, so the financial piece of it is really important. You know, do you have a really long time, like, did the folks that you seem to gravitate towards aesthetically, do they also have a process that looks like would work for you? And I think coming, figuring out how those two can come together. And you may not know all those until you start picking up the phone.

[B]

And get really cozy and comfortable with the fact that you're going to have to talk about money and you're going to have to talk about timeline. So define your budget. That doesn't have to be like $13,126, but you know, what would you be comfortable spending now versus over a period of time and just, just talk about it. I mean, so I think that's what you do before.

[C]

Well, and I think too, you know, considering all of that, it is, I think everyone's hope on both sides of that relationship that it's a long term relationship, whether that is that you're going to renovate a historic home and do every piece of furniture in it. Still, hopefully that relationship is so good that five years from now when you have another baby or you buy a second home or whatever it is that you call those same people back. It is a very personal relationship. So really thinking through those things and taking your time on the front end and not rushing in will make a huge difference in your experience.

[B]

So I'll say with that, especially if you are building or renovating, you need to be finding, if you're going to work with interior designer, you need to be finding a designer at the same time you're doing an architect or a builder. We're often thought of later in the process and there's so much to design alongside the architect and the builder. And when processes are rushed, they're not as good.

[C]

Well, and I think too each one of those parties, a builder, an architect and a designer are approaching a job at a very different perspective. And all are valid and important. Um, but it stinks when we get into a project and if a wall had been, excuse me, six inches, one other way you could have gotten that sofa you really wanted, you know, and if we had all been working in tandem, then that could have happened.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Um, and you know, it's just that's our lens that we look through things from, is from the inside out and having a full team as soon as you can makes a big difference.

[A]

Yeah, I like that you pointed out that thinking about relationships with like your doctor or a teacher or some somebody else, because it's a really communication heavy relationship. And I think people don't realize that, but y' all are also in the customer service business like oh, yeah, big time. That is communicating, working through problems. That is a lot of what your role is. Obviously, you have a creative vision, but you gotta execute the creative vision. And so there's a lot that goes.

[B]

Yeah. And you gotta. I mean, it's specifically with us, and it's my understanding that most designers as well, we enjoy working with people. So I know we'll talk about misconceptions later, but I think a lot of people have the movie idea of a designer who comes in. It's like, this must go. I have this vision. This is what's going to happen. And I don't think that's what most of us enjoy doing. We want to get to know you and your life and your family and how you live and then punch that out into an interior. So that communication is so incredibly important.

[A]

Yeah. And you can't ask for what you really want and voice challenges if you don't feel comfortable with the person.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Like, you know, I think we've all been in, like, think about a haircut where, like, someone gets a terrible haircut and you're like, it's great. I love it. Yay.

[B]

That is a perfect example. You need to find somebody who you would feel comfortable saying, I don't like it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now we have a process where you are hopefully not saying that on install day. Right. That's the wrong time to say it. That's before your hair gets cut.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Before it's gone. But that is so important that you can have the difficult and the fun conversations.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So what does the interview process look like when you're interviewing a client and they're interviewing you?

[C]

Oh, man.

[B]

I feel like.

[C]

Yeah, this is a great question. I think it's really important. And we say this to a lot of clients. It is important to interview multiple folks. And it's totally understandable. We all understand that you're probably doing that. And so to be transparent about that is very comfortable. And, you know, my mother is working through a project. Project now, and she was interviewing two different cabinetry folks, and she's not going to work with one. And she was like, I feel so bad. And I was like, we're used to this game. Yeah, it's okay. We know we're not going to be the best fit for everyone based on, you know, a whole rubric of things that that could be or could not be the right fit. So the interview process in. In our world and everybody's process is different, of course, but I think most people have a procurement, client procurement phase. A Design phase and execution phase. And so during the client procurement in our world, there's typically an initial email and. Or phone call, depending on the scope of the project and the personality of the person. You know, that phone call can be really critical because people have a lot of questions and hearing the tone of our voice helps a lot. You know, emails are often pretty cold. So initial email to get your intel is usually how it starts. And then there's usually a call for personality gauge. And then we go out. And so if we know the scopes. Right. Personalities are matching up and all that, then we go out to the home. And that's always so much fun. Just seeing the space, seeing the folks in the space, really getting to start diving into who they are and what their hopes and dreams are, in addition to what that applies to interiors wise. And that's kind of our initial phase. Then we sort of move into what we. The proposing phase, where we, you know, go and send them their proposal and all that. Then when you give them a rose, right?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yes. You give them a rose. And there's like an introvert.

[B]

Yeah, it's a whole thing.

[C]

Introverted dance. That's fine. That's my job. Yes.

[B]

On the side, you can do your eighth grade.

[C]

You're learning dance really well. I do sometimes. Kate gets to do that. And that's fun. Told you so. Dance is my favorite dance to do. But we do that all kind in good fun.

[B]

So I think when the. The interview process, we very much are interviewing the client, just like they are interviewing us. But I think that they should be coming again with what your scope is and what asking money questions in that initial phone call is really important. Engaging that personality, that vibe and that. I think people hire us often because of vibe and process.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That we fit their vibe. We ain't everybody's cup of tea. We are kind of silly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's two of us. I mean, I don't know. There's lots of other partnerships, but we are like Siamese twins.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All the time.

[C]

And we're a lot. We're a lot. It was so funny. One of the. Our favorite builders to work with. We drove by. We often work on any historic renovations that they're working on because that's one of our passions. But we drove by one one day and we saw their sign out in the yard and we weren't on that project. And we're like, hey, why don't you put those on? Put us on that one. It's just like, you would have terrified them so much. And they're so calm and we're like, yeah, totally legit.

[B]

So, I mean, anybody with any sort of confidence will understand that as you're interviewing. But the vibe is so important. And that personality matchup and how you would want to be treated by your hairdresser. I think it's such a good comparison.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

To be able to call back and be like, I have a raccoon strip on the back of my head that I just found. You don't need to fix that.

[C]

Exactly. But I mean, it should be a conversation. It should be open. There are no stupid questions. I just. And come with a list. I mean, we have clients. Come with a full list. Sometimes. Sometimes people just hold that in their head magically. I don't know how they live their lives that way, but more power to them. But I mean, just an open dialogue is really important. And what your priorities are. And don't be afraid to say what your priorities are, because we can't do our job well if we don't know all the details of your goals.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You can also just show up and say, I don't know what to do.

[C]

And then we'll figure it.

[A]

What are some questions they should ask you on the first?

[B]

How does your process work? How do you charge? I hate this question because it's work, but it's totally legit and they should ask it. This is the scope of my project. This is the type of stuff that I like. What can I expect to spend if they have no idea of budget? Because, I mean, it is again, shrouded in mystery. And it's not like you buy a whole house of furniture every year. You probably, if you did it 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago, or you've never done it, prices have changed, things have changed.

[A]

Right. And it adds up quick. Like, you're probably thinking about the furniture. You're not necessarily thinking about the wall coverings, the lampshades, the pillows and the rugs. And like, all of those things are.

[B]

Also all those sorts of things. Yeah.

[A]

And the.

[B]

What we call cell phone fees, the receiving storage and delivery, just getting it there.

[C]

Project management. Yeah, all that.

[B]

Yeah, all that stuff. So we will. We will talk people's ear off on the phone and give them as much information as they are willing to take. And like, there are almost points in an initial call where I will stop and be like, do you want me to monologue to you? Do you just read this, send it to you? And I'll be like, no, no, no. Or what? You know, whatever. Like I read your process. I'm good. Please leave me alone. I've already learned out there, figured out that you're crazy. So. Bye. So I think those, those questions are really good.

[C]

And I'll say pricing is often. I will say our response is often a range because we don't know you well enough yet to know are you going to really value antiques in your room? Are you going to. You know, there are a lot of different tiers of pricing that can all look beautiful and all be a successful design in terms of function and aesthetic. But we don't know you quite well enough to know what your priorities are.

[A]

So if someone has a dollar amount in their head of like, okay, I'm comfortable spending X amount. I know that you want them to tell you that, but should they be. Should they be afraid that you're gonna like, balk at that or think, oh, that's too much or too little? Like, is that.

[B]

Well, I, I think I would be nervous that somebody would judge that whether it's a low budget or I think on the other side, if people give a bigger budget that they're like, they'll just work towards that budget. And I could have got it, gotten it for less.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's a very valid fear for sure. So if I were in their position, I would probably give a range just like we are.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm willing to spend this to this. I don't really know what I'm looking at. And maybe that's too little and working with it. I mean, it can. A living room can be anywhere between, I don't know, 40 and 300,000.

[C]

Keep off.

[B]

Like, I mean, it can be crazy town.

[C]

Well, you can gild your walls if you want us to.

[B]

But that's interesting is that folks often think that I don't want diamond encrusted. I don't want a diamond encrusted lamp. Well, still an unliker brass. Nice one is $1,200. Do you want to spend that?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, we're not going to do diamond encrusted and it's still going to be expensive.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So should they be worried? No. But I understand that as a human.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's uncomfortable. But you've got to get comfortable doing it because what is going to be worse is you've gone through the design.

[C]

Process, you've paid for that design process.

[B]

Which is already thousands, and then it can't happen at the end. So we typically, I mean, we, we explain that during our process along and along where we have these Money conversations. We're like, we, you know when people are like, I don't really know, or there is no budget. And I'm like, yes, there is. Everybody's got a top. Yeah, everybody. Let's just see what it comes out to be. These are the types of things people say. Totally get it. Completely understand. But we can't respect a number that we don't know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that may mean that we go, it's too low. That's not enough. Yeah. And that's a risk that you have to take so that we can respect it.

[C]

And we've had that conversation with potential clients before and said, it's not enough. And then they come back six months later and they're like, all right, I've had bonus season. I'm ready to go. And so.

[B]

Or three years later.

[C]

Yeah, that too. That too. Oh, yeah. I mean, whenever it is. Because we can make a lot of things work well on a lot of different budgets. But there are some budgets that don't make sense necessarily to work with a designer.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And it's not that that's a poo poo budget. It's not that that is something to sneeze at or laugh at. It's just sometimes it doesn't make sense then for you to pay for design expertise, too. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Yeah. If you have a $20,000 budget and it's going to take already, I don't know, five, seven. It just depends on the scope.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In design fees.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, we've got to sofa and chairs, and it's not going to feel like you spent a lot of money. So for those things, the Internet is incredible. You've got blogs, you've got online design resources. I mean, it's, you know, just because a designer is above your budget does not mean it's anything Disney set. All of my friends are teachers.

[A]

Like, that's a great time to listen to the podcast or go into our store and talk with our store team.

[B]

Yes. There are retail stores out the wazoo with design services. I mean, there are so many resources and it is a different. It's a different experience. Yeah, but that again, yeah. Definitely nothing to point your nose up at.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Point your nose snuffing.

[A]

What are some questions that you will ask them that they should be prepared to answer? Other than that, we've obviously covered the budget. Anything. Anything else that you're like, you know, we're going to ask you this. Be prepared. Or if a designer doesn't ask them, that should be a concern.

[B]

Like in Red flags. I don't know that there's any hard and fast ones. It goes down to that. To that personality matchup. So watch to see if your values are aligning, because what we are going to ask you a lot is about your story. Where did you meet your significant other? What's it? I mean, why did you name your kids, what you named them? What are your. Did you love your parents house? Talk to us about that. We are really into story and people walking in and saying, this looks like your house, but it functions and it's beautiful. So clearly Gordon Dunning did it. So that's really important to us. If that's important to you, then it makes sense. If you are our type of client and the designers that you're interviewing aren't asking you those types of questions, then that's a red flag. But if you're somebody who's a wham, bam, thank you, ma', am, let's just get it done. I just want it to match.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then those questions mean nothing to you. So that's why it's kind of a hard question.

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[C]

You know, but I think any designer is going to come in and talk to you about how you're going to use this space and what your goals are for this space. Like, why are you redoing your whole home, your kitchen, your whatever it is? And so talk through. I mean, obviously you'll be redoing it for aesthetic reasons, but, hey, is this falling apart? We've had another kid. We just bought this house, and we're coming from a totally different perspective. And we just had neighbors move in that are best friends from childhood. And my parents live across the town, and we need to be able to have them all at the dinner table, you know, whatever it is. And so knowing what your reasoning is for doing that is helping us be able to prioritize.

[A]

Yeah. What you want.

[C]

Yeah. What's the pain?

[B]

What's the pain point?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What makes you want to part with your dollars for this?

[A]

Pain points, I think, is a great one because I do think sometimes we know it's not working. We don't necessarily know why. And you could probably help them figure that out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they can say, like, you know, storage is my challenge and it's not working. Or like, I bought this couch, it's uncomfortable or whatever it is. Like, that probably gets you a little bit more.

[B]

And if one were to soul search and still can't come up with bullet points saying, there's just something wrong with this room. I don't know why. Yeah, yeah. It's okay. You can be vulnerable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We hold you. We do a lot of. A lot of psychology in our work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. One that you should come prepared for is how you and your partner are going to handle this. Yes. Together. Yeah.

[C]

And we've worked with all kinds of families in all kinds of different ways, and all have been successful. And we've had some that maybe had hiccups because they didn't think that through on the front end. And someone had opinions that we didn't realize weren't aligned.

[A]

Is that what you mean?

[B]

Right.

[C]

Yes. And that's okay. I mean, we can help with that. There are some things we go. That's a marriage discussion that y' all can have when we're not here. You know, if someone's like, oh, no, I want a man cave, and she's like, I want a she room or whatever with this extra space that. Don't need to figure that out on your own.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But most priorities of why you're doing it and why you're investing in it, I think that needs to be figured out and shaped.

[B]

Right. Yeah. You both need to value it and.

[C]

Who all has an opinion and what that opinion is on. And therefore those people need to show up.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We've never actually.

[A]

I don't think we've ever about that because I can imagine, like, if someone is the one showing up to the meetings and they're giving the okay, but then like, well, what about the other person? Are they happy and.

[B]

Right. Yeah. Behind the scenes saying, you know what? I didn't want that.

[A]

But they weren't there.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

We actually have not had that problem in a really, really long time. And I think it's because we talk about it a lot. So stereotypically, we usually meet with the wife and the husband is. Comes later. Obviously that's not what always happens. But there's, you know, there's a design enthusiast and one who is not. Um, and so that we will say, like, if he has an opinion, he needs to come to our love hate meeting. He needs to come to the very first design meeting, say he loves and hates stuff, and then. And then he can be Smith and go on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we need to be aligned on. If he is going to have veto power, he needs to be doing it during the process. I'm saying he. It could be she. It could be your mama. Yeah.

[C]

And often it is mama. It just depends.

[B]

Yeah. Because if you're going to show it to her in the end. And you're going to go, or your best friend or whoever it is who is going to completely take the wind out of your sails. They need to be a part of the process.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we do talk. That hasn't actually happened in a very long time.

[A]

Okay, this actually brings up a great question because what if, like, I think we all love a design board. I'm sure you all prepare design boards and that kind of thing for your clients. So. And it's normal, I think, to want to have a second opinion. How do you feel about people sharing those design boards with people that aren't in the process? Probably have no idea what any of those little swatches mean. Like. Yeah, that I feel like could be tricky.

[C]

It's kind of. We're, we're very encouraging of gathering opinions as often as you would choose at the beginning of the process. Once we start getting down to those final designs, if you are going to get disappointed and pivot based on mama's opinion, who hasn't been a part of any of this after final design, just know you're gonna have to pay for it.

[B]

Yeah. I don't really care if you, if you go outside. We are fee based. Right. So we have a package that goes with a dollar amount and that's, that's bespoke to each.

[C]

But it's a very specific process and very specific deliverables.

[A]

And you're basing your fee, I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, off the number of hours that you expect to spend designing it. So it's, it's an hourly structure like a lawyer or.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Would do.

[B]

And ours goes with the process and the hours and that's how we come up with it. But if we have an extra phone call or whatever, you're not billed for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But yeah, if it comes, if we're down to the very end of the process and you're sharing it and things are changing, then the process is going to get jacked and they're going to have to charge additionally for that. But also you're going to be sad because that's when it's going to start going off the rails. So share. We have a client portal. It's all available online all the time. Share it with your friends, but just do it the same way you would do if there's something going on with your kid at school. Do you want to be shared? Whose opinions do you really want?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Or your baby name. Air it as much as you would share your baby Name.

[A]

Yes. That is a great. Do you want those opinions and things like, am I willing to pay to listen to this person's opinion?

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, I tell my best friend and they don't like this blue curtain fabric. Like, am I willing to pay to extra for that? Yeah. Or do I not really give a shit?

[C]

Right.

[A]

Because fabric is. Yeah, exactly.

[C]

Then you can show someone it's all pretty and done and say, isn't this beautiful?

[A]

Or do you have the confidence to share with your best friend. Your best friend. I hate it. And say, okay, that's cool. Thanks for telling me. But I'm going to keep it because I think. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because you find a new friendless and she. I mean, you can name your child marble coffee table. Looking at it and they should go, that is so you.

[A]

But some people have that, like, friendship where you're like, I, this is not for me. I wouldn't pick this. But you do it. Yeah. You're not for me.

[B]

My sisters, for sure.

[A]

But you don't have to take their feedback.

[C]

Exactly. Yeah, precisely. I think you sum that up well. Like, if you're confident enough to share it and just move on about your business, then great. Other. And. Or are you going to pay for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

To. To share with you or whoever.

[B]

Yeah. But we're not gonna guard it. That's your personal problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

You choose. You choose. You. You can go.

[A]

I guess I was more asking, like, does it cause. Could it cause problems? Which.

[B]

Yeah, it doesn't typically for us, though. I don't know why.

[C]

No, I think people usually solicit on the front end and get any opinions, but I mean, we. From the get go. So if someone's got an opinion.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

They come put their booty in a chair.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, or be just.

[A]

Well, it is really easy to be the. Oh, my gosh, what do we call it? Monday gallery.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, you know what I mean. If you're willing to show up and put in the hours to like be involved in the process, then, yeah, it's just small activity.

[B]

Now, I want to know more about this love it, hate it meeting. I know. Yes. It's the best part of our process.

[C]

I'll give you a quick rundown on our process first. So we are fee based and so it's a nice little package. And I honestly, this has been our process from the beginning that we have, you know, our procurement process, which is an initial consultation. We propose they pay money and say yes or say yes with Their money, however you want to put that. And then our first design meeting is Love Hate. And then we have two additional meetings that really get us to that final design. And then their deliverables are there, and.

[B]

Their meetings or phases, depending on how big the process is. So sometimes there's several meetings in Love Hate.

[C]

Yeah, just depending, like, if. Yeah, that can vary, but, yeah, so phases is probably a better way to term it. But that Love Hate one is the first one. And so that's when we're really getting to know clients. And that's when we call it Love Hate. Most people might call it ideation, but we call it Love Hate because we work with a lot of nice people, and we need them to say ugly things about tile, fabric, layouts, whatever it is, because. Say it now. Because once we get here, you got to pay extra to say no or say, that's ugly. And so let's. Let's start here. And it also, I think, establishes a trust with our clients so that they feel comfortable telling us, I hate my haircut. Can you fix it?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah, I think that's really important.

[B]

And it is step. So when they come to that meeting. So we describe our. Like Latham was saying, our process, we do it like a funnel. So in the beginning, we're learning all this stuff about you. We're measuring it, and there's a questionnaire. So we know stuff about you already. We've interviewed all that sort of stuff. Now we've pulled all these things for you. Specifically, we've designed several different layouts. I mean, and this applies to every type of project. Construction, renovation, decorating, whether it's just one room or a whole house. So we'll throw sketches and floor plans and tiles and fabric and everything all over the table. You have this created for you. Ginormous set of options. Options.

[C]

And caffeine is offered. Caffeine is offered.

[B]

Very exhausting. And so all they have to do is feel their feelings out loud, and it's hysterical. It's so funny to see how different people do it because they sit down at first and they're like, okay, we're like, you hate that. I don't hate. Maybe for somebody else. We're not designing their room. Do you hate it? You hate it? So they can say anything between love hate. Not for me. Be as persnickety as they. Some people, like, rub the fabrics on their faces, and then it said, that is important.

[A]

And then if it's your nap, if you're gonna take a nap on that sofa, I wanna know Is this room pillow nappable? Yes. Yeah.

[C]

It's critical.

[B]

So everybody who has an opinion needs to be there, which is, you know, typically a smaller group of people. But then everything is on their portal after it, too. So they have. And we'll give them a homework date. So we'll say, okay. Love Hate was really at the end of that meeting. We're like, love hate was very overwhelming. You okay? You gonna be all right? This is all on your portal. Go home, discuss, sit in the room, talk about it, think about stuff, and give us your final thoughts in a week. And then we go to the next phase where it's more of a peek behind the curtain. So we've taken all that feedback, everything we learned at Love Hate, which is so much stuff.

[C]

Learn a lot.

[B]

Did they get in it? You know, they're like lilac. Really hate it. And this is why. And then we get into grandmama stuff. I mean, we get into all kinds of things.

[C]

It's great. And the things that people have peeves about are hysterical. Things that you've just never thought about in behavior. You know, whether it's like a chest of drawers, if it has a nice little handle that goes when it closes.

[B]

Oh, no.

[C]

Some people love that. Some people hate that. What? You know what? It's a double vessel sink or a single vessel sink. I mean, that is a house divided, y'.

[B]

All.

[C]

I mean, it is drama in there. I mean, it's so funny the things that they've never thought of before or that have bothered them for their whole lives.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's different with every client. And so we always have a good time learning about people.

[A]

Huge. You need a hidden camera.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I would love to.

[B]

I mean, I truly would love to do that. We should ask some clients if we can do that, because it would be so funny. It really is probably our most fun meeting. And we really start to get into budget then, because we find out what's important, because there are things where they're like, I have always wanted this. And then we get to the lamp page, and they're like, I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. So we're not even going to.

[A]

Great, though. A dimmer switch. That's one of those things where I'm like, oh, it is so satisfying.

[B]

It is so good. Dimmers are very polarizing.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

I know.

[A]

We didn't know. I thought everybody wanted to run things.

[B]

Nope. We have one client who went and took them all out of her house. Not. I mean, this was pre us going in so it wasn't that we put them in and she took them out.

[C]

But she just wanted to. If the lights are on, the lights are on.

[A]

The lights are off, but you don't have any options.

[B]

Yeah, I don't want it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And we gave it to her. Gave her what she wanted. And her house is beautiful.

[C]

It is. It is. It makes her happy. And that's. That's the most important thing, you know, it's.

[B]

It's great. There was a reason that we were talking about Love 8, and I don't remember what I'm talking about.

[A]

She wants to know more about. So. Yeah, we did a good job. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, cool.

[A]

How long does that meeting take?

[C]

Like, a couple hours.

[B]

Okay, a couple hours. And if it's. I mean, if it's a bigger project, again, it goes into phases, but we.

[C]

Try not to ever have a meeting that's over. Three. Two is ideal. Yeah, Two is ideal. Three even we are like, oh, my gosh. You know, it's just being on having that many decisions to be made in that amount of time. People get really exhausted, and then they start just saying whatever. And if you get to the whatever, then you need another meeting.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So three hours max. Typically two.

[A]

But I take it y' all like hearing the why behind.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like, that is so important for your process.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

So important.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's so, so important. It's also really fun to watch, like, partners talk about it. They're like, you like that idea. I do. And it's really interesting to see them. But the why is. That's the most important thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I said options, and I'm mad at myself for saying it, because it's not options on the table because there's way too many things on the table to actually happen in your house because we're going to pull more things. So if we. If they pull out something, we also have a magic wand pile that happens during the love hate. I really like how this feels, but I'd like it in a different color. So if we could take a magic wand and change one thing about challenge pile.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

So if we learn the why, then we are empowered to be able to make the why happen. I feel like this is turning into a card game.

[C]

Yeah, kind of. This is hilarious.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can. It's card.

[C]

Yeah, you can discard.

[B]

Especially if we're doing construction, we're like, you can throw the marble samples at us. Actually, we usually say Marcy, and that's not very nice to Marcy. They don't ever do it.

[C]

So that's good. But it is nice because, I mean, in that sometimes you've gone through their Pinterest boards, you've had all these conversations, you've read their questionnaire, and still when you get in there, they're like, I actually hate that color. What I was talking about in this image was this one thing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And, you know, you try to find the consistencies, and sometimes still, until you're standing there talking in pictures and words together, it's not evident. And so that magic wand pile is what helps redirect us, if need be, towards that semifinal goal. Usually, at least there's a big chunk that was in the direction, but sometimes the surprise weirdos that we throw on the edge as a. Just in case they. They really did, like, that funky thing or that thing we really think would be cool in their house sometimes, then we pivot that way. And I think, too, Al, that also helps bring to the top. There's lots of different types of clients. Some want a lot more guidance, Some want a lot more partnership and involvement. And that really comes to light in there, too. And we try to. I mean, within our process, we try to identify about. About folks and cater to that as much as we can.

[B]

Yeah. I want to add the Ann pile. We have an Ann pile.

[C]

Oh, Ann.

[B]

An Ann or a Lee pile is what we call it because they're middle names that just, you know, they're just friends with everybody. You know, you can be Katherine Anne. Yeah. You can have. Yeah, we're like that. You know, that just works. She's not the room starter, but she's good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, that's the Ann pile.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's something they don't. Maybe don't love or hate, but it's just like it there.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Neutral.

[C]

You got to have something.

[B]

I see how that works.

[C]

Yeah. Just for the out of rest or.

[B]

Something to blend it and it complements it. Right. Catherine a.m. bailey. You have.

[A]

That's nice.

[C]

We appreciate a good graduation name.

[A]

Okay. How it does the process. It sounds like the. The process, like the funnel that you mentioned is the same regardless of scope, but is there anything about it that changes with scope? Like, is that obviously the timeline, but, like.

[C]

Yeah, timeline's a big one. I mean, you know, if we're doing construction and furnishings and that can be renovation or new construction and all that, then that will take a longer timeline. And sometimes we will run those as nearly parallel processes. Processes. I'm not sure. Different processes, but we'll run them Almost parallel. So we'll start on construction, and once we get about two thirds of the way through, we'll start furnishings so that we're kind of considering those things together. But no one gets totally exhausted. So sometimes we'll join all that, but just spread it out a little bit or so. If it's a really large home, we'll need more meetings about similar things. So timeline does make a big difference. Trying to think what other ways it'll pivot.

[B]

The deliverables change.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Obviously, if we're doing a construction project, then there's construction documents.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And there's election schedule.

[A]

That was actually going to be my next question. Like, if someone is doing construction and that's involved in the fee, then would they expect you to like, be meeting with the tile installer to make sure that that's installed properly? Like, what level does that involve?

[B]

I guess so we in the design phase. At the end of the design phase, there's a set of deliverables. And I assume most people work this way. They do construction. You'll have a set of construction documents and a selection sheet in your design board.

[A]

So you're providing the documents on. Like this is what the tile.

[B]

Where the tile goes. Where the shower ahead goes.

[C]

All the rest of the.

[B]

Occasionally architects will have gotten into that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But usually we do the coloring it in to that extent. We call it coloring it in. Coloring it too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we provide all of that stuff. And in the best situations, we do walkthroughs during construction along with them, as many as they want. We have. What we recommend for sure is that we do a framing electrical and millwork and a millwork walkthrough so that we can say where the light switches go and things like that. Because things always change during construction. And we're there as your advocate and just to make sure they were all now standing in the room and it looked good and planned to put this light here. I'll know. Great aunt so and so died and she left you a light and we switched it and this looks better here. Whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And sometimes too. I mean, inches are inches and sometimes a wall went in and it's six inches off and you go through framing walk through and you go, okay, well, all right, that happened. What's the sacrifice to. To move it back and we're gonna have to wiggle that window and so we can stand there and help problem solve that so you're not left your all on your own.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

During that. Because, you know, we want to only be there as Much as you want us to be. But there are some things that we really think we should be there for to help your life be better.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And because you had the, like, you know, what the vision was, what the. What it's supposed to look like, and, like, their minutiae to some of these questions that maybe the contractor's asking them, and they're like, I don't know what the.

[B]

That is a huge thing to know when you are building is that you should and can and are empowered to call your designer when you have that stuff. You can look at your builder and say, please call the designer and ask them a question. What should happen? And what we say to our clients all the time is designer, builder, architect. Your design team should figure out the. After there's been a weird pivot, something's happened, then we should all figure it out and then present the options to you. You shouldn't have to do that. That's what you're paying for.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's gonna be better. Let's be honest. Like, you're.

[A]

You do whatever you do during.

[B]

For a living. We got this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And if all three are aligned, it's absolute magic. And most of the time it is.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Most of the time it is. I mean, one of our favorites. I mean, we do those three walkthroughs, and then they'll just call us on emergencies. And sometimes it's an emergency, you know, no one's dying. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and honestly, too, occasionally. I mean, occasionally. I mean, we usually have really strong teams, but occasionally you have a turkey on the team and.

[B]

Turkey.

[C]

Yeah. You know, that's just gonna be the nicest peacock or peak. A peacock is often it. And that individual doesn't want to do what you want them to do, then we can be your advocate and, you know, they didn't want to take those historic doors and figure out how to make them work in the house. But guess what? That's what we specified. That's because that's what you wanted. And we'll stand there and look them dead. You're gonna do it too.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You're gonna do it.

[A]

And they get to be good cop and you get to be back up.

[C]

Exactly. Exactly.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Latham was that one.

[C]

Y. I am. I'm usually really nice, but when someone's.

[B]

Shouldn'T have do anything, she just stares.

[C]

Yeah, she just stares. So you're doing that tomorrow or today.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

It's a lot easier when it's not yours. You know, it's a lot easier to be someone else's pit bull. Yeah, A lot better.

[B]

Yeah. Obviously, top to bottom construction takes time, and you see it happening along and along. If it is a room just of decorative elements that are not stuck to your house, then those things usually all happen in one day or one couple of days. And that's pretty fun.

[C]

That's very exciting.

[A]

You mean the install or the design process?

[B]

The install. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not the design process.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you're coming in and doing, like, the grandeur zlhtv style.

[B]

Yeah. Except we're not.

[C]

Except we're not there. We sweep ourselves out in the background.

[B]

No, no, no. Leave wine. Smelly, good things. A nice note.

[A]

See, you don't want to see the reaction.

[B]

No, no.

[C]

Because what if they need a minute? Because we have had clients come home before. This is everything they wanted and hoped and dreamed for. And they walk in on install day, and they're like, oh, this is. This is a big change in my life.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it takes them 24 hours to be enthusiastic. You shouldn't have to worry about our feelings if that's where you are.

[B]

My kids, I got stuff going on that's actually not why we've done this, obviously, way before that, but that was. It's really. It's a. We want you to go and, like, sit and celebrate it with your family and be like, oh, this is what.

[C]

You know, that's who it's for. I mean, we have a great relationship with all of our clients, but that we're not who it's for. It's for you. And so you should get to come home with your kids and whatever.

[B]

We were.

[C]

Oh, my gosh, this was so great. We were home recently, and clients, kids came home before they did, and we were designing an area that was really kind of their space, and it was a real treat to see.

[B]

That was actually really cute. It was an accident that we were still there, but not accident. But they. Oh, my gosh, they were so precious. And we turned this kind of little found Eve into a little tea room for them. Well, actually, it wasn't supposed to be a team room. It just turned into that on install day. Just a little art. Beautiful wallpaper in the vault of the Eve. It's so stinking cute. So it's kind of this color, like, it's lovely little blush. And the girls are what, like 7 and 4 or something like that? And they came running in, and they saw that we had put in a little accessory tea set there, and they were like. And they went on a cute little R's. Her little R's weren't exactly right. They gave us a tea set, and it was so cute.

[C]

It was precious.

[B]

And they just found every little detail so exciting. But they seem easily walked in and be like, this isn't my favorite color.

[A]

Yeah. His mama picked it so last week.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

But they didn't.

[B]

They absolutely adored it.

[C]

That was. That was so cute. So every now and then, and we did. We had one client who very much insisted that we be there. And if in. If that is what they, you know, really, really wanted, I mean, I guess we can make that happen.

[B]

But that was worth it.

[C]

She cried. That was worth it. She cried. We cried. It was great. So, I mean, occasionally, but 99 of the time, we're out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We. We send an email. We send the we out email after install day, and it's like, you're allowed to come back to your own home now.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We are not there. There. There is something for you to drink.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Come on home.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That is crazy. I didn't expect for y' all to leave before they come.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, you know, our, like, experience with it is seeing, like, any she TV show. So you assume that they're there and, like, want to see that, but that.

[B]

Definitely falls for you and be like, do you like it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you notice this little thing?

[A]

And it would be pressure on them to be performative about how it looks. Yeah. And, like, their reaction to it. Yeah. Yeah, I get that.

[B]

None of us are good at that anymore. Since the Internet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Being performers in person.

[C]

We do okay.

[B]

We do okay.

[A]

What happens if you get to install day and they don't like it? Like, has that ever happened? Probably not. Because how would one handle that situation in this hypothetical?

[B]

That is a crummy Sid. We have had elements not been liked. Not the whole thing, thank God. I think that's everyone's worst nightmare. The client, obviously, but us, too, because we have learned to love you and the whole process and all that sort of stuff. Also, financially, that ain't great. So that shouldn't happen because we've listened the whole time. We've measured things. There has been. During COVID we did some virtual outsourcing of measuring, and there was one time something, like, really didn't fit.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

That was a bad day, but that was a call.

[C]

So we. We. Yeah. And I'd say most designers have a clause. It's like, you buy it, it's yours, you know? But in that case, when it Just straight up didn't.

[B]

We were like. We took that big old and just.

[C]

Stayed up with us.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then we're gonna not hire that measuring team ever again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now we do. Yeah, we do try. That's like with Love, hate and in peek behind the curtain that we talk about the red flags of something. Like if something is really weird, like it's just there's a lamp that we love that we call the disease lamp or something super brightly colored or marble. People sometimes are not sure about marble and how it. How it functions. We try to go for the no on it so that we talk about how bad it could be for your life. Like now this is weird. This is a weird ass lamp. It's really big. Are you sure? So we don't. We don't try to weasel anybody into anything to appease our egos because that just doesn't. Then we would.

[A]

You're not trying to push people into something.

[B]

No, because then if they. If we took that risk, then we end up. Then we end up having that awful conversation of it doesn't work that subjective. So who. Whose fault is it? Yeah. So that's awful.

[A]

And I would think that in most cases there are so many options that you can find someone something that they're gonna like. So it's not like this is the only lamp that would work here. So even if you don't like it, like we're using it, I mean there's gonna be something else to chuck it in instead. And you'd rather do that.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So that's only happened to us a few times where somebody hasn't like a particular element of it and we actually feel like it's not wrong. I think maybe.

[C]

Yeah, maybe two or three times max.

[B]

And then it's just a super awful, uncomfortable question conversation.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And it's kind of case by case.

[A]

What once you leave, you send that we out email. What happens after that? Are there any situations in which like someone comes back to you or something gets staying they call you or like what is sort of the like after.

[B]

With those relationships are just as strong after that. So there is. We've got to finalize your invoice. So we're still talking to you. So there's your invoice with all that sort of stuff, which hopefully is never a surprise because we send updates every week about that. So that's usually just if you know, like right now price is going up for various reasons. So that's happening. And then if you know, a snag happens I'm trying to think. Recently some automatic draperies, the. One of the motors in it malfunctioned, so those relationships should be just as strong. She emailed us that this happened and we took care of it. And I think it's being fixed tomorrow. So those. That should just. That's part of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're still not.

[C]

Additional fees and we're still sitting, you know, like, I feel like it's an open door. I mean, we're still chatting with you. We're still friends. You can call us anytime. There's a photo shoot. There's a photo shoot. Yeah, we love those.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are those in the contract? Like, is that something that someone should know going in? Like this is going to happen at the end?

[B]

Yes. Yeah, it is. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Does anyone ever have issues with it?

[B]

No.

[C]

Typically, I mean, now if we are pitching it to a magazine, we always ask the client, you know, if someone wants to. To publish it, for example, we talk to the client and say, do you want your name in this? Do you want your gender in this? Do you want any part of you involved in this? And some people want their names. They're totally comfortable with that. Some people are fine with just a.

[B]

Portrait of them in it. Yeah. I mean, various publications want various stories, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, some want more of the homeowner element than others.

[B]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So that's totally up to them.

[C]

Yeah, that's totally up to them. Because we've had work published with portraits and we've had work published where no one even knows what their name was. Right. So, you know, we try to be respectful that this is their home, you know, but also it's our profession, so trying to find the. The perfect way where that is successful for everybody.

[B]

Yeah. At what point does that happen? The photography of the scene, you know, it would be awesome if it happened like a week after the install. That's super.

[C]

That's the dream.

[B]

But that's happened. It happens all over the place. Sometimes a year later. Just depends on what other stuff we have going on. Yeah. And.

[C]

And whatever stuff they have going on. Like, I mean, sometimes we'll get through a project and let's say it was a three room project, but we know in six months they're doing three more, you know, so then that gets kind of pushed and pushed and pushed until we know we can go and shoot all day. Sometimes it makes sense if it's a kitchen to get in there and shoot it for a half day or something. So you can submit it to competitions or Whatever. But for the most part, you know, we try to do it as close to install day as we can, just so nobody's feeling like they're tiptoeing around their own house.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But for the most part, it's within six months. I'd say that's the goal.

[B]

Have you ever gone into a house that you went to, go for photograph like a year or six months later, and you're like, oh, they moved that there.

[C]

I don't think we have with. Which is a sad face. Sometimes there's a surprise face. You're like, hey, this chair's up here. This is Terry.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

They must not have worked on there for them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's funny.

[B]

Or somebody snatched it. I feel like a child took a chair once.

[C]

No, but.

[A]

No.

[B]

Isn't that weird?

[A]

Well, no, that's good. That means that your.

[B]

I think coming from a designer, I like to move stuff around all the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How could they even control themselves? Yeah. To move things around, but no, not really.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sometimes it's exactly how we want to. Yeah.

[C]

That's amazing. I don't exactly.

[B]

The box on the book on the.

[A]

It's right, right. Like, they haven't even Accessories.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That's shocking to me.

[C]

And it's clean. So clean.

[A]

I know. But there is a comfort in, like, oh, this is how Kate and Latham thought that this box looked best. And I'm just. They thought red tulips looked great in this vase. So I'm gonna just keep on ready.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

And it is funny. I mean, there are some that you walk into, like, years later, and, like, this is exactly how we left it. But what's cool is that it always has some layer. Not always. If there's kids and dogs, which there often is, there is a layer. And it's cool to see that they are actually able to live their life in space. The way that they plant and that. That's really, really fun.

[A]

That's not in a museum way, but in, like a. I loved it. They did it. Right. Like, I can just. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Well, we. We put a bunch of stuff out so it definitely doesn't look like a museum.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. What about you mentioned before, sometimes they've done, like, three rooms, and, you know, three rooms are coming. Talk to us about that a little bit, because you. You know, I know that there are probably some designers who only do whole house projects or some that do room by room. What does that look like?

[C]

Yeah. I think a lot of firms have A minimum. And we do to a certain degree. But I think. I mean, we're in this for. Well, we're in this because it's a business, so we're making money here, but we're in this for relationships, too. And, you know, if it is a great fit and it's going to be a smaller project than maybe someone else's, but we know we're going to be together for a really long time and we really like each other and work well together, then that's just as good as a one wham, bam, whopper project, you know, because it's the same. It's just over time, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, I think a lot. That's a great question to ask when people are interviewing, like, what is. How do you define your minimum? I think is a good question. And what is your minimum? Is it dollar related? Is it square footage related? Do you only do whole houses and a ton of designers only do that? And I think ours is a little bit more subjective and case by case. What I really don't like doing is picking is all we need is a chair in our living room, a light in our daughter's room, a runner and a pink color. And like, like, we don't just pick things. And I don't think any designers are capable of just picking things. We look at a space, whether it's a house, a room, whatever, as a full composition and a lifestyle. So just like picking a chair.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That makes a whole lot more sense to go to a resale store and talk to somebody about, this is my situation. Can you help me find the proper chair?

[A]

Or some. Some designers do those. I don't know if y' all do this, like the expert or something, where it's like an hourly consultation.

[B]

Y.

[C]

Yes, and we do that too. We're on intro, and we'll do that as well. And. And that's been great. We've had a couple of folks on there just have like three or four problems and they got 30 minutes and they're like, okay, and we'll get on there. And their drapes are hanging there and like, dude, is this right? How should I hem these? What's the height? You know, and we could solve some problems like that, but if someone is coming to us as a full service design, we want to give them a full service design.

[B]

And there's. There's all the same work involved in the picking because we have to. Because that. The way that we approach stuff, this might be specific to us, I don't know, is that we Want to know who you are.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And how you work. So we still want to measure the space. We still want to do the questionnaire. So there's all that work up front to just pick a chair. It's not worth it for the squeeze. I mean, there's. You don't. Not the squeeze, but whatever.

[A]

It's a really expensive chair.

[B]

It's a really expensive chair. I wouldn't buy a chair like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I just go on somewhere.com and buy my chair.

[B]

Yeah. But they might. Yeah.

[A]

So, okay, and then what if I've. We've worked together. We did three rooms. And now moving on to the other three rooms. Does that process look totally different? Because you've already done Love Hate.

[B]

You kind of have Love Hate specific.

[A]

Okay. It's specific.

[B]

It's room specific. It's room specific and human specific. So we've done layouts for only the scope we did before.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay. So. So we'll do Love Hate again. But Love Hate usually goes faster.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because we do already know a lot more about you.

[C]

There's a lot less to hate on the table.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

When we're round two.

[B]

Yeah. There's one client that we're working with right now, and I hope she listens to this and knows who she is. Who we have kind of. So we met them when they were doing their new build when Gordon Dunning was quite young. And we picked all the. Picked shouldn't have said that. We helped them specify all the things for their home. And then we did their common spaces, their kitchen, their living room, that sort of stuff. Then we did their kids nurseries. Now we're doing their office. So we. Those folks, we do do one room at a time, but that's. I mean, it's fabulous. Yeah. And meetings are so quick. Like, she'll sit down and go blue, huh? Wild. Exactly. You know, it's just exactly what I'm. Very, very easy. So her slots are not two hours.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Except for catching up.

[C]

Yeah, except for catching up. Yeah. Sometimes there's, you know, personality. 30 minutes that we need to film into that too.

[A]

What if the project is someone that, like, has a lot of good stuff that they like? Maybe they love this question, but they are, like, buying a new house and they're like, okay, I have all this stuff. I have a whole house. It was fully furnished, totally done. But, like, now my space is totally different. I don't know what to do.

[C]

We love puzzle solving.

[B]

That's a common misconception. Designers are like, get rid of it all. I'll only work with you if you're doing all new furniture.

[C]

There are probably some of those designers, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We're just not on.

[B]

That's a great question to ask people. But we will absolutely use your existing stuff and your mama's existing stuff and whatever, because that is what tells the story and makes it function and gives it life and depth and all that sort of stuff. So part of our measuring, we send in the. The Asbel guys and they'll measure everything. And we go through and measure and take pictures of things we could possibly use. Whether that's recover or. Or just use it as it is. And that's anything from art. Everything. I mean, anything. An existing light fixture. We often come in and think, what can we keep? What will give it life and depth and storage for the environment.

[C]

Yeah. Because I think, you know, I mean, if your grandma's piece is not the most beautiful thing in the world, but it means something to you, that matters.

[A]

That you're like, this is really not worth keeping.

[B]

Yes. Yes. But if they are in love with it, it makes their soul happy, then it is. And we don't get to define that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We'll just put other things around it.

[B]

Just put other things around it. It's not usually.

[A]

Or something.

[B]

Yeah, A lot of things go there. Usually something to your husband's office. Yeah.

[C]

And sometimes they're like that too. They're like, I need to keep this for sentimental value. I know it's not my favorite thing, but I'm like, that's great. It'll go as the, you know, guest room bedside table then.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Or, you know, they'll help us prioritize that too. And if it really matters to them and they think it's beautiful and we don't. Doesn't matter. We're gonna put it.

[A]

Do you ever have to tell them you hate something?

[B]

I don't think we've ever done that really bothers me?

[C]

We have told them it doesn't work. Well, we have said, like, it doesn't work. And that's typically scale related.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that happens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

But yeah, it's not usually like, yeah, no.

[B]

That's so nice.

[A]

Well, I just mean you are asking them to be upfront with you about what they hate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I wasn't sure if it ever, like, goes both ways where you're like, I have to be honest about something.

[B]

That if it doesn't work. Yeah, yeah. Like this. I mean, your grandmama's sofa is so precious, but you have a Huge living room. It looks like a dollhouse sofa.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So let's put it at the end of your bed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or something. Or let's recover it or something like that. But saying, like, this is dated. If it makes their heart full, then it's not dated for them, you know? Right. Like that kind of thing. The thing that I think disappoints a lot of people, and I totally get it, is that if you have a lot of furniture, they think the design fees are going to cost less.

[C]

But we are.

[A]

You mean that if they come with existing furniture. Got it.

[B]

Yeah. Yes. So you procure less furniture. So the furniture, the decorative elements, all that stuff costs less because you need less.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But we're still designing the same amount of thing, same amount of stuff, whether you. Whether it's for free, the table is free, or not. We still gotta measure it, we still gotta lay it out in the room. We still gotta see how it all works for each other.

[A]

So your design would be pretty much consistent, but the purchasing of the new pieces might be less.

[B]

Well, it should be, hopefully.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because you already have a table.

[C]

Right.

[B]

There's a, you know, thousand, four thousand dollars. I don't know what your table.

[A]

Well, I guess I'm thinking, like, well, if you're recovering it and.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

You're adding wallpaper and you're, you know, like, that also can add up too. So it's not like. Yeah. But tit for tat.

[B]

If you've already got something right, then it will cost less. But the design fee is still the same.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because we're still looking at that as a. As a whole. Right. Yeah, that stinks. I acknowledge that. That stinks to people.

[A]

But. But if you think about it this way, like, how rewarding to now feel like, okay, yes, maybe it still cost a lot, but I got to incorporate this thing that I've been trying to incorporate. I've probably spent money buying things to go with it that didn't work. And I've wasted some things or bought some things that are wrong, and now I finally get it right. Like someone doing. Right. Yeah. You know?

[C]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[A]

At least there's.

[B]

We love people's existing things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That gets. That gets really exciting. And I think some people get really nervous about it. They're like, I have this, but I don't know if you're gonna like it.

[A]

What about moving houses, though? Cause I imagine that is. That can be challenging. Like, what if the house is architecturally totally different or a very different scale? Like, they Used to be in a historic home, and now it's a great big new build.

[C]

Yeah, that's hard. That's a hard game, and that's what you pay for. Yeah.

[A]

But I will say.

[C]

I mean, and you. Sometimes that's. You gotta get the right artwork to help make it, you know, and position it in a proper way around the sofa so that it makes that sofa feel grander when, you know. So we play that game a lot, but it is. Sometimes things have to go somewhere else, and that stinks when that happens. But that means that somebody somewhere really got an upgrade in your house. It's just that you're also gonna have to upgrade.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like a conversation that happens a lot in situations like that. They're like, can we keep our existing sectional? I want to be like, there's nothing wrong with it. Here are the cons. You could fit more people in here, and it could function better with this layout. But we understand that that sectional is free. You already own it, and your kids are young, and maybe it doesn't matter because you'll beat that up and you'll do this later or. So we just make an educated. Help them make an educated choice for it. So, yeah, I mean, you can keep it. It's your life. Do you want to keep it?

[A]

Would there ever be a situation in which you'd be like, okay, we're gonna design it, and then, like, the way we think it should work. You keep that sofa for three years, when your kids are no longer playing with crayons, you call us, and then we'll know. But we'll already know exactly. Like, what fabric.

[B]

Exactly. Yes. Yes.

[A]

That's smart.

[B]

Yeah, that happens.

[A]

So you'll do that?

[B]

Oh, yeah. For sure.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, sometimes the life phase, for whatever reason, is such that dining chair, chairs.

[B]

Procure new dining chairs, and we'll either put an inexpensive fabric on the seat, or if one already comes with a slip seat, like, with, like, a natural linen or something on it, really just leave it like that. Let your kids bash it up. We'll do the fabulous velvet in a few years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're like, you and I were talking earlier, like, I got a couple years or like, I got 10. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, let's just do it and live it in. In 10 years, I'll get another new fabulous thing, that it'll stay around for longer. Yeah, okay. You mentioned art. What about shopping for art? Because I do feel like some designers approach things differently where, like, they don't Necessarily shop for art for their clients. And then some do. So what does that look like?

[C]

It's kind of client led. I mean, we. We talk a lot about priorities, obviously throughout the process, but some clients are like, I don't really know about art. And some. It's important to some, it's so important, too, that they actually do want to make the selection. So in that case. And they do want it, they want to invest on it, but they want some guidance. And so we'll send them to some of our favorite galleries we believe are consistent with their aesthetic. Give them a few artists to follow and look at and interview. And then there are other ones that are like, here's my budget. Fix it. And so in that case, then we'll actually select these specific pieces or commission the artist through us to create the pieces. But we're as involved as the client will allow us to be. I mean, we'd happily select everything in someone's house, but. But people don't always want that. Sometimes we give them shopping rules and, you know, they're going on a big, special trip sometime this year. I'm like, okay, well, when you go there, here's the size you need. Here are a couple different subject matters that might work. And then, hey, if you pick up something else, you know, maybe in about this size, that'd be great. And so then they'll get to come home with something that has their story and their experience in it. Sometimes they've been somewhere, didn't get anything, and then. And we go on deep dives and a number of different. Whether they're artists, to commission something new or antiques or vintage and pull things from all kinds of websites and local dealers.

[A]

And that's smart.

[C]

Find them something that we're like, yeah, you can tell people this came from Paris.

[B]

Yes, it did.

[C]

It did not when you were there. But that's fine. No one needs to know. It's still part of your story, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So we try to keep it storied.

[B]

And that sort of stuff comes out in love hate, usually because we will have pages of art that we already. Or Latham hates this word, but I don't know a better word for it, wall decor, you know, so it would be, you know, maybe if they're really passionate about travel and have spent a lot of time in India, we'll pull some, like, rugs that could hang on the wall or something like that. So there's not just, like, canvas artwork I'm talking about. We'll pull things for them to love and hate. On and that. That's what starts that conversation of whether it's important to them and want to spend a lot of money on it or not.

[C]

Yeah. And, I mean, because of the work we're in, we have a lot of friends that are artists, and we love to support them in any way we can when it's the right fit. And there's a wide range of styles in there, too. And so we. We love the opportunity to get to work with them and support them when clients let us lead that. But also, you know, to support our clients on whatever their artistic collection journey is. We. We have one client who. Her kids for their birthday. I mean, from infancy, what they get for their birthday every year is a piece of original artwork. So we only procured like, two pieces of artwork for her house. Everything else, she was just like, here you go. And we had another client who had an art closet. It was the most magical thing I've ever been in in my life. And you just opened the door, and there was just beautiful original artwork just stacked in her closet as if she were a gallery. Because she was like, I've just been waiting to do this. But I knew I had stuff on her wall. And she was like, I don't want to put holes in the wall. I want to put it in the wrong place. I know what I like artistically, but I don't know how to incorporate it. And so there was just like, dozens of pieces of artwork in there. Oh, it was so exciting.

[A]

I can't decide if I love that or hate that. It's been in a close. Who.

[B]

Not.

[A]

Not terrible on.

[C]

But, you know, it was. It got. It got her through the COVID Yeah. She was just like, I just, like, I'm buying this. I'm supporting this artist. I'm doing this. And then she's like, and now this closet full of stuff. And I was like, I gotta hire designers.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Not really.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It was just waiting in the wings. It was on deck.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah. It was ready.

[B]

It was ready.

[C]

But it was that. Those are really fun. When we do have clients that love art and often introduces us to new artists, which is cool.

[A]

Do you ever have a situation where you're finishing a room and the art or there is blank space on the wall, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it gives us heartbreak.

[B]

And often we will bring something on approval that day, on install day, just to. Okay. Be like. It could look like this, though.

[A]

Yeah. Could look like that doesn't.

[C]

And here's the price tag.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Just. Just know.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You can support this artist?

[A]

Yeah. What about leaving room in your budget or finishing touches?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. There's always an accessory budget in the invoice. What's the gift look like? It looks like a dollar amount. So when they go smart, they only look at a dollar amount. And we have taken notes during the design process and in their questionnaire about things that tell their story. Yeah, like little. Little weird things we love. Little weird things that we get to add.

[A]

Like objects sit abouts. Like what are we talking about?

[B]

Yes, but usually like those stories that they tell and then we like, tuck that back about some story. The only one I could think of.

[A]

Turtle turns into like. Yes. Turtle shells on the wall or something.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Like.

[B]

Yes, exactly. And so we try to remember that sort of stuff.

[C]

What was the thing that was scarlet? What was the scarlet one?

[B]

I don't remember. I don't know.

[C]

But sometimes just really quirky, weird things will come out in love hate. And we'll like print off a weird photo and put that in the frame that we've procured to put.

[A]

There's.

[B]

There's one client who was really into wrestling, like professional wrestling.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they don't feel like that kind of person at all. But they are very, very into art. And so we. I think you and I were in Paris and we picked up. We were getting a lot of sketches and there was this real weird line drawing of what you think of when you think of a wrestler. And I'm sure that there is a name for this type of wrestler.

[C]

The onesie thing.

[B]

Not it was a singlet, but then he had like a. Like a mask on and everything. But it was just a line sketch that we got in Paris.

[A]

So it was a most elegant drawing one could have of a wrestler.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. And we put it in a real pretty frame and put it on their bookshelf and it stayed. So there's like little winks. Oh, that was. Lafayette was their dog.

[C]

Lafayette.

[B]

Lafayette was their dog. And so we framed a portrait of Lafayette in there. Even though they are not traditional, it was really small, like a cute little oil painting that was fun. So, like, stuff like that and we. So once they've paid for all their stuff and we've started ordering, we late and we've. We've held onto this in our. With our team. We're like Latham and I get to do accessories. So we do all. Well, you know, we'll go to Scott's. We'll go to. I mean, we'll. Wherever the. The world is our oyster and find weird Little things. The thing that stinks or doesn't, depending on who you are in this situation, is that accessories are all returnable because they just show up on install day.

[C]

You've never seen them or approved them.

[B]

Never seen them. Okay, got it. So they get to shop in their own house. So it's a risk that we take, but it makes sense because of the way that we procure them. We're usually like randomly somewhere and grabbing them and they don't make sense. A lot of times out of context, you have to see them on that, that set of books or whatever to.

[C]

Be the one off thing or the perfect box on the coffee table or what have you. And you know, we, when we send the final invoice, then all those are item. Itemized out and so they can sit there and go, is that box worth that? To me maybe.

[B]

Because under the bus here, sometimes she, she likes herself like a real expensive dining box.

[C]

I do, I love, she loves so much. And some people be like 200 for like this big. Yeah, but it's pretty.

[A]

It's so pretty. So. Okay, sorry. The accessories budget is not built in on the front end. It is a layer that will be in the room, but you haven't paid for it yet. And then they're gonna, they do pay.

[B]

A portion of it. So when they're the way. I don't. I hope this is okay to say.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So our. At the end of the design process, they. And let's just talk decorative because that's what we're talking about. You get a full itemized invoice with every last little thing, including a line that says accessories and you pay 80 of that and then the 20% is on the back end. And that 20% could morph based on how many accessories you keep or if a price goes up or down.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Should be real close to that 20.

[C]

So that's our budget when we're shopping. So they, they have approved. Hey, it's going to be X number of dollars worth of extra stuff in this room.

[A]

The accessories budget, like a percentage of the room. Like how does one. Cause I feel like that would be something that might be a hard pill to swallow for people.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

I'm answering that up so fast.

[B]

I think it is. I always think it's going to be. But I think hopefully they've looked at our work and that's how they've figured out that it's okay. But people usually don't.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They're like, okay, that's how it finishes. And we determine Them by. It's. I mean, it's really case by case. We'll be like, okay, surfaces. How many surfaces are there? Is this room covered in bookshelves?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And everybody reads out their candle now, so that's harder. And how much do they care? Some people are put around people and some people aren't.

[C]

Some people have a whole library full of books and don't need extra coffee table books on their coffee table. Some people have an art closet. I read on a Kindle and that's all I got, you know, But I have three different sets of bookcases in my home.

[B]

And we. And we just. Yes. And we're like, I probably need a porcupine box. That's going to be something.

[C]

Yeah. Stylistically also is part of that sliding sale, too. You know, if they're an antiquesy person, it's probably gonna be a little bit higher than someone who's like, whatever.

[B]

As long as they've only been to London and Paris, it's a lot easier because there's a lot of London and Paris out there.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

But we do try to tell their story in those things, too. So, like. Well, if someone's recently been to Japan, we'll make sure that the coffee table book that we're putting there, if we're buying it, is Japanese textiles or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so we try to source based on what their questionnaire says, what we know about them through the process, et cetera. Etc.

[A]

That's a great, like, little tip, though, even for someone not hiring an interior designer. Like, great gift. Like, oh, yeah. Just went on a big trip. Like, I'm gonna buy you a coffee table book for that. I'm totally gonna do that for my parents. I just can't buy them anything. They don't want anything.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe I can buy them. You know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Books. Or just give them a hug. Parents are.

[A]

I know, but that's hard to rap on Mother's Day. Yes.

[B]

Yes, it is. I get it.

[A]

But you know, like a. You know, something that, like a book related to somewhere they went. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's really, really, really fun. Accessory shopping is a lot of fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And a lot of times people are like, yeah, thanks a lot. It's great. And we don't have to move a thing. And then if we could come in and take the photos right after that, it's done.

[A]

Yeah, it's good.

[B]

Are there any other places within the process that you should figure out, like, we might be spending a little bit more. I just Feel like I've watched enough of those, like, home renovation shows to know that, like, you go in with a budget of X and whatever that is, it's going to be 15%.

[A]

More like an oops budget.

[B]

Yeah, an oops budget. Like should. Should we factor in an oops budget? I like, I think renovations, for sure. Okay, for sure. Definitely. For all kinds of different things.

[A]

What about a tariff budget?

[C]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

And that's hard to nail down.

[C]

It is hard.

[B]

It's really hard to nail down.

[C]

Yeah, we have like a. A conference call on those, like about every month right now for one of the organizations we're in. And it's kind of like you don't know.

[A]

Yeah, Everything we told you last month, that's now irrelevant.

[B]

We're seeing so many vendors who are eating some of it and who are eating some of it and then doing it later. So in a private project. So right now I am. But right now you don't need a tariff budget. It as a rule, because people are honoring the fee that you paid. Whatever you paid will be honored. But if you drag.

[A]

You mean the designer or the vendor? Like, if you have quoted to your client, this table is going to be.

[B]

$500, then the vendor is honoring it. So we don't have to do that. Which is. And that. That just tends to be the trend right now.

[C]

But some have implemented now, you know, but that will be on our next swipe, not on our past swipes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's, I think we think through the contingency budget in decorative projects where so we kind of take on that fear if somebody's like, I got $4, and we're like, it's gonna be more like $6. So.

[C]

But we do try to talk about money a lot throughout the process. It's really important that we're comfortable with it, you know, And I was raised in, you know, a time and place in a family where that was rude. It is not rude. It is very important. And it's only one of the only ways we can do our job well. And so we have to be very comfortable talking about money so that they're very comfortable talking about money.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so sometimes we get a semi final and they have expressed interest in some things that that is going to blow their budget, you know. And so we just try to be very educational about that in that moment and say, hey, this is the table you want. We need you to understand that if you do this, you are not going to be in budget. And typically, as long as you've managed expectations and there is some. Some contingency in their bank account, then it's fine. Sometimes they go, nope, that's all the money I've got. Let's reassess. And that's fine. It's just being clear about it so that no one's disappointed once they get that final bill.

[A]

Yeah, that sucks.

[B]

We don't like communication money.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Communication is actually something we definitely wanted to talk about today is I think a lot of people worry about communicating with their designer. Communicate, like, communicate as much as you want to. Don't text and don't dm. That's a big, big for us.

[C]

Huge. We will not text you and we will not DM you.

[B]

If you DM and go, oh, my God, that's so cute. That's like. Yeah, but if you DM me. So last night I was thinking about the kitchen, and this kitchen that you just posted, I really like too, which I can't go. So two weeks down the road, I'll be like, I know. They said something about a kitchen. Did I dream it? Where was it? Yeah, I can't find it in my email. That's the only reason why. Yeah, that's it. It's just so we can find your information and care about you.

[C]

We can do our job. Well, if you are emailing us or.

[B]

Calling us, you can email all you want.

[C]

Yeah. And our professional life is people's personal lives, and so we get that. And so they're thinking about us at 10 o' clock at night. For the love of God, I am not thinking about you at 10 o' clock at night. As much as I love you. But that's probably. You're right, it's not true. I am thinking about them, but I'm also finally not parenting and working and doing all the things. And so if I get a ping on my text message, it's just gonna put me in the car.

[B]

But you can email at 3am you can email.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Or whatever.

[B]

Probably look at it at 5, but that's. I mean, just because of my own choices. But you can. You can email anytime you want to. I mean, I think this is true of all just modern communication.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Email anytime you want. Yeah.

[C]

When we go to conferences and we talk to other designers, there are many of them that text their clients. And if that is the conversation that you need and that's the way you need to communicate with your designer, where you're just not the fit.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and I think that's part of it is communication, style which is.

[B]

Back to choosing somebody who's like your doctor and stuff. Can.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Do what I text my doctor.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And some people would.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm just not one of those people.

[A]

And Tim, I like, I think everyone knows probably their own communication style. But like if you're someone that does not work on their own per. Doesn't use their own personal email, then don't work with a designer that only uses email.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And that's. I mean there's tons of people in the world to work with. So find somebody who's. That's gonna fit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That business stuff is really important.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Anything else people should know?

[B]

I think the only one was the quick question thing that people often have.

[C]

Oh yeah.

[B]

And like a revisions where folks will want to change something and in their minds, which I totally, totally get. Can we just change this. This one element or can you tell me if this light fixture works again? We. We look at a full composition. So it takes time for us to get in your house. House. Because we talk about a lot of houses. So I got to remember who you are. I mean, I. I know who you are, but I'm like, wait, did they like a drawer microwave or not? They either hated it or love it. I can't remember. So we gotta get in there and then we gotta make the decision. So it takes a little bit longer to answer what is what Seems like a quick question.

[C]

Yeah, there are that many quick questions. There really aren't because we're considering so many different elements and that's why you wanna there. But I can also understand that that's frustrating to just be like, I'm just asking you if this one. If it's here or here that I hang this light fixture. But we're like wo. But if you do that, then that impacts how big that piece of artwork can be. And we told you already there. Exactly. And then that, you know, I mean, there's just so many different elements that we're considering because that's our job. And so it's never quick and so I hate that. But it just isn't.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm not going to add to that. I can add to that. You did a great job. So pretty.

[C]

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

You too.

[A]

Anything else? I mean, no. I mean, you said misconceptions, quick questions and picking. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

There was one other misconception.

[B]

There was. I think we covered it somewhere in there.

[C]

We're not scary.

[B]

Like what?

[A]

Oh, when People are like, what. What layout should I. What layout would be good in here?

[C]

Like, what's a.

[B]

Like, what's a quick vision? Like, what's your vision? But I think we talked about that when we were talking about.

[A]

Like, you're not walking into a room and immediately knowing what should go in there. You have to wait.

[B]

Right. You gotta know who you are.

[A]

Process. Who are you?

[B]

What is your life?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, and I will say there.

[C]

I'm not saying that there are no judgmental designers in the world, because there are. But another thing is when you are inviting us into your home, we get a lot of. When we're first walking in someone's house. I'm sorry it's such a mess. I. I did that. If your house was perfect, we would not have a job.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We do not expect it to be impeccable when we walk in.

[B]

We don't get invited if it's not.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

So, yeah, we're there to help. So hopefully it's a little off some way. Otherwise we don't have a job to do and then we're not going to get paid by you. No, I'm just kidding. But I think knowing that, you know, we're coming in with problem solving eyes, not judgmental eyes.

[A]

Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So hopefully. Hopefully everybody's like, yeah. Yeah, I hope so. Yay.

[A]

All right. I think we covered it all.

[C]

I think we did.

[A]

I know. I'm sure.

[C]

What we might.

[A]

You might. You know what, we might get some questions from some. From some listeners. I'm tongue tied. In which case, we'll have you back.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[C]

Yeah, happy to. Well, y', all, anytime.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

It's always a treat making this easy.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

This is so fun.

[B]

I do feel a little bad that we talked a lot about our process. Process.

[C]

Well, everybody's is different. I mean, everybody's process is different. And I think, you know, there are some central elements, but I. I hope it gives folks enough to be dangerous enough to have questions to ask when they go to other firms, too.

[A]

All right, well, tell everyone where they can find you. Follow you see your work.

[C]

Oh, yes.

[B]

The.

[C]

Probably the most fun place to follow us is on Instagram, as we are a very visual business. And our handle is Gordon Dunning. G O R D O N. And then running with a D, as in dog, which is always how we have to spell it to everybody. But yeah, and then there's.

[B]

There's a. The World Wide Web. You could go there. Www.gordondunning.com yes. Where else? I Don't know. I don't know.

[C]

And we have a newsletter you can sign up for on there. We only bug you about once a month and tell you it's not true.

[B]

It's once a quarter. We try our best.

[C]

We did take the summer off, so. Intention. There's all kinds of happenings and book recommendations and podcast recommendations on there for folks that. The evangelist. Yeah, that's next month.

[A]

Sneaky peaky.

[C]

Where else can Intro. Oh, intro.

[B]

Oh, yeah, we're on intro.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

What else you could do? They could do a consultation fee with you or.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

I'm sorry, but. Well, what do you call it? A consultation, I think it's called. Yeah, like a couple hours. If they had a few quick. They had a few quick question.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

That's. They would sit and be like, so here's the situation. Think of it as you're telling everyone the characters. So you have a new friend and you're like, listen, like, my sister is a booty head and she drives me crazy. And the friend is like, well, what was she like growing up? Like, you need to give the characters.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, there's gonna be.

[B]

You need to give to. My mom's like this. Okay, now I totally get it. We need the characters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's why it's not a good question.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

A little bit of backstory.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Makes total sense.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

And as we talk about often on the show, inches matter, matter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you can't just say, this is how we're to hang it or whatever. Like sometimes things are tight and you gotta. Yeah.

[B]

It just matter a lot. Yes. Inches and D. And money math.

[C]

Centimeters too. We'll do matrices.

[B]

I mean, I like the name.

[C]

That's a conversion chart on my phone. You know, you just do that.

[B]

Oh, my Lord.

[A]

Okay, that's our show.

[B]

Okay, there you go.

[A]

Ending on Centimeters. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog howtodecorate.com podcast to send in a decorating dilemma. Email your questions to podcastallarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media. AlardeSigns.

[B]

Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.

[A]

Until next time, happy decorating.