Ep. 439: Designing for Real Life with Brian Patrick Flynn

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Decorate Ep. 439

Episode Title: Designing for Real Life with Brian Patrick Flynn
Release Date: November 11, 2025
Host: Ballard Designs Team – Caroline, Taryn, and Liz
Guest: Brian Patrick Flynn

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode welcomes interior designer and HGTV Dream Home host Brian Patrick Flynn, focusing on how he designs for real life: balancing aesthetics, trends, and practicality—especially after becoming a parent and working in both residential and production design. The discussion ranges from trend opinions and color preferences to behind-the-scenes insights into designing for television, and closes with an entertaining “in vs. out” trends segment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brian’s Journey: Returning Home & New Dad Life

• Transition Back to Atlanta & Consistency

  • Brian shares that after over a decade designing HGTV’s Dream Home and Urban Oasis franchises, mostly on location around the country, he’s now returning to Atlanta.
  • Becoming a dad has shifted his priorities, making consistency and being at home more important than travel and long on-site projects.
  • Quote: “As a new dad, I kind of love this... all the clichés once you become a parent, you have to have this consistency.” (04:07)

• Parenting Milestones & Perspective

  • The hosts and Brian reflect on how parenthood reimagines what “big milestones” mean, shifting the value from career achievements to daily family moments.
  • Quote: “Waiting till I was 47 to become a dad allowed me to... I’m much more patient now.” (24:38)

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2. Favorite Projects, Color Preferences & Facing Traditionalism

• The Ansley Park House: Embracing Traditional

  • Brian recounts designing a notably traditional home in Atlanta, moving out of his comfort zone (he’s known for his use of color and modern forms).
  • Most of the transformation came from reupholstering, wallcoverings, and new accessories—not new furniture.
  • Quote: “99% of everything that appears in that house was already there. It was just a matter of then bringing in new fabric... and the client—no pushback.” (06:26)

• Color Hates & Loves: A Roundtable

  • The group reveals their least favorite colors: Brian is known for avoiding beige and lime green, while Caroline and Taryn confess a dislike of orange and aqua.
  • Notable Moment: Amusing debate—what IS chartreuse vs. lime green? (14:10 – 14:42)
  • Brian admits, “Beige has never been a thing I had experience with. But... this particular shade of beige kind of sold me on it.” (15:47)

• Design Language & Rebranding Colors

  • Consensus emerges that colors like “beige” and “mauve” could benefit from a rebranding (“khaki” is more palatable).

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3. Designing for TV: SEO, Color Choices, and Production Demands

• The Role of SEO in Design (Search Engine Optimization, 11:43)

  • Brian explains that designing for HGTV is highly influenced by SEO data, guiding everything from paint color to finishes, based on what viewers are Googling.
  • Quote: “I am basically SEO’s... I can’t say ‘bitch,’ but if I could, that’s my job.” (11:33)

• Product Partnerships and the Production Process

  • There’s a complex balance between personal taste and demands from sponsors, marketing calendars, and data-driven trends.
  • Quote: “It’s been a complicated design process because I really can’t have my own opinion... NOW that this is... my last one, it’s bittersweet.” (20:33)

• Designing for Camera

  • The importance of color fidelity for filming led Brian to embrace 5000 Kelvin daylight bulbs (much to the horror of the other designers).
  • “My obsession with 5000 pure blue daylight LED [Kelvin] has to do with my career as a production designer.” (31:52)
  • Debate: Using “operating room” blue-white light vs. cozy warm light at home (34:15–36:38)

• Behind the Scenes: Set Design for Film/TV (54:28–58:00)

  • Real sets often have multiple versions of the same sofas/tables for different shots.
  • Continuity is rigorously maintained.

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4. House Tours & Mixing Styles

• Oxford, MS House

  • Designed using Ballard collections, the house fuses early ‘80s influences, blending masculine/feminine cues via color, shape, and pattern.
  • Quote: “We wanted this... to be a super ‘80s-inspired house... if you go, you’ll see a fresh take, not an overtly retro one. It feels natural, not performative.” (39:00–40:57)
  • The use of “beige” is symbolic both of his own taste evolution and his attention to client lifestyle.

• Mixing Eras & Textures: Why It Matters

  • The panel reflects on the set designs of Nancy Meyers movies (Something’s Gotta Give, It’s Complicated) as the gold standard: approachable, lived-in, feminine + traditional + modern.
  • Quote: “If everything is the same style, you kind of feel like you’re selling a set... versus creating a living set that’s supposed to feel like a real home.” (45:08–45:18)

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5. Trends: In vs. Out Lightning Round

(Starts at 66:21, several segments; see below for timestamps)

Brian’s Hot Takes:

• Beige: In, with caveats (“khaki” is ideal) (69:15)
• Pleated Lampshades: In (69:28)
• Color Drenching (walls/trims/ceilings same color): In, especially if trim is uninteresting or, contrastingly, historic and worth showing off (69:30–70:00)
• White Kitchens: Out (70:08)
• Blue & White: Always in (70:23)
• Mauve: In (“Unexpected neutral,” but needs a new name) (70:30, 71:10)
• White Houses with Black Trim: Out (too timestamped, ubiquitous in recent new builds) (71:20)
• Scallops: In (playful, flexible for masculine/feminine schemes) (73:39)
• Bulbous/Rounded Italian-Inspired Furniture: Beautiful now, but likely to be “timestamped” (77:57–78:11)

Brian’s #1 Most Hated Trend:

• Sticks in Vases Stuck in Corners: “My least favorite thing in interior design... 2002–2010, every house had those damn sticks and that damn vase.” (74:28)

Plant Trends:

• Fiddle leaf figs (the “perfect green,” but the wave has passed; now being replaced by olive and Indian ficus trees)

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6. Home Life & Real Family-Friendly Living

• Designing a Kid-Friendly Home

  • Brian details how living with a toddler changed his home: soft modular tiles now cover all formerly white floors; unexpected educational experiences arise from playful uses of color and pattern.
  • Quote: “Every room is, like, technicolor... super educational, and it wasn’t on purpose.” (28:50)

• Realism vs. Perfection

  • On letting a slightly messy, less-than-editorialized house be filmed for Homeworthy: “Every time I see it, part of me’s like, listen, that’s real life.” (26:44)
  • Embraces design that grows with life, not staged perfection.

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7. Production Designer Nerd-Out

• How TV/Film Sets Are Built

  • Breakaway sofas and different-scale furnishings for different camera angles.
  • Extensive documentation for continuity: “That’s someone’s job—huge folders, Polaroids, every angle...” (58:10)

• Beloved Sets as Design Inspiration

  • Nancy Meyers films (“Something’s Gotta Give,” “It’s Complicated”) and Tom Ford’s “A Single Man” are cited repeatedly as the best examples of timeless, approachable sets influencing modern design.
  • Nancy Meyers’ sets: “So simple... a mix of all these traditional things... it looks like somebody lives there.” (46:45–46:52)

• Dealing with Feedback

  • When your designs are seen by millions, you need a thick skin; “you can’t please everyone.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I am basically SEO’s... I can’t say ‘bitch,’ but if I could, that’s my job.”
  (Brian Patrick Flynn, 11:33)

• “If everything is the same style, you kind of feel like you’re selling a set, a furniture, versus... creating a living set that’s supposed to feel like a real home.”
  (Brian, 45:14)

• “Sticks in a vase shoved in a corner... every time I go to someone’s house and they were hiring me, they’d have those damn sticks and that damn vase.”
  (Brian, 74:28)

• “We all thought we could keep [fiddle leaf figs] alive and found out quickly, we can’t.”
  (Brian, 76:38)

• “My obsession with 5000 pure blue daylight LED... is from my career as a production designer.”
  (31:52)

• “If my house was mostly muddy colors, I’d be fine with [warm light]... but we have a blush room, and it looks blush at nine o’clock at night because of the 5000K bulbs.”
  (36:02)

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Segment Timestamps

• Brian’s design journey & return to Atlanta: 03:33–04:28
• Parenthood, milestones, and patience: 22:13–24:44
• Ansley Park house & embracing traditional design: 05:25–07:42
• Color preferences: beige, orange, aqua, lime green: 13:35–14:51
• SEO and design for TV: 11:43–12:55
• Lighting and the 5000K debate: 30:27–36:38
• Oxford house, Ballard Designs mix, '80s inspirations: 38:16–43:01
• Nancy Meyers/film set design inspirations: 45:50–51:14
• Behind the scenes—set/furniture versioning for film: 54:28–58:00
• In vs. Out: Trend Lightning Round: 66:21–73:52
• Plant trends (fiddle leaf, olive, ficus): 75:00–76:14
• Final takes on Italian bulbous furniture: 77:11–79:29

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Tone & Language

• The episode retains a chatty, playful spirit—hosts and Brian regularly ribbing one another and riffing on design details.
• Discussions are open, sometimes self-deprecating, and unfiltered—Brian especially doesn’t shy from calling out his own “controversial” takes or admitting his mistakes.
• Technical details are explained (e.g., SEO, Kelvin light temperature) without jargon, making the episode insightful but approachable.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This is an episode not just for fans of beautiful rooms, but anyone curious about how real designers manage evolving trends, real-world needs, and the demands of making design work on and off camera. Brian’s insights bridge the worlds of practical residential work, production design, and personal transformation—delivered with candor, industry know-how, and plenty of laughs.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to how to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team.

[B]

And I'm Taryn and I'm a product designer.

[C]

I'm Liz. I head up the creative team.

[A]

We're your hosts. Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks and tales from interior designers, stylists, and other talents in the design world.

[B]

Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode.

[C]

We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email [e-mail] now, on with the show.

[A]

Today we are very excited to welcome one of our favorites, Brian Patrick Flynn. He's an Atlanta interior designer who you may know from his work as the host of HGTV's Dream Home and Urban Oasis. He's known for his vibrant, eclectic style and his ability to transform spaces in approachable and unexpected ways. Today we're going to talk about the recent house tour you did on our YouTube channel. Your experience with HGTV Dreamhouse, how you approach decorating for film and TV as many tangents. And we're going to end on a little in versus out segment where we're going to talk about some. Some trends and what you feel, how.

[D]

You feel about them, likes and dislikes, I think.

[E]

Let's get right into it.

[A]

Yeah. Welcome to the show, Brian. Thanks.

[D]

Thanks for having me.

[B]

It's been a while since you joined us, so we're glad.

[D]

Yeah, it's been six years. I came and saw you all in a much different studio, and it was just after I finished HGTV Dream Home 2020. HGTV Dream Homes are the year I filmed them, the year before their actual year. So that means I saw you in 2019 and I just finished one in Hilton Head. And I remember we had a. We had a really awesome podcast taping and I enjoyed every minute of it. And that was kind of my first foray into being on them. And now I love them. It's like my favorite place to have a conversation, especially when we just go with it because it ends up being. And I fully listen. Like, I'll go, I'll see on my Spotify. It'll show up. And I feel like I'm, you know, brackadocious.

[E]

But I'll listen to a podcast that I was like a guest on on the plane, and I love it. It's like, it's like re. It's like reliving A conversation, but through a fresh pair of eyes.

[D]

So I love doing this stuff.

[A]

We're happy to have you. It is hard for me to call you Brian. I want to call you Brian Patrick Flynn.

[E]

Thank you.

[A]

It is a. You're. It's like Julia Louis Dreyfus or something.

[E]

Or Sarah Jessica Parker.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like you can't just call her Sarah.

[E]

No.

[D]

Or Neil Patrick Harris.

[E]

Neil Patrick Harris. Yeah. And you're not the first to say that.

[D]

It's when, When I first started my career, there was another Brian Flynn. I don't. My memory's a little foggy because this was the early 2000s, but I don't remember if it was either in film school or in one of my first jobs as a news producer at NBC. But there was another Brian Flynn and it was spelled B, R, I, A N. I remember that's when I added my middle name.

[E]

It was more because there was other ones out there.

[D]

And Brian was a common name for kids. For kids who grew up in the late 80s and the 90s. There were plenty of Brian's.

[E]

Now there's not a lot of little gen alpha Brians. But yeah, most people do like to use all three names together. So Hollis doesn't. My, My, my spouse. But it's very common to have a close friend and be sitting there and.

[D]

For her to refer to me as all three of my names. And I'm fine with it because I.

[E]

I think it phonetically flows.

[A]

It does, it does. It sounds good together. Yeah. Well, we have had such a great year together because you and I went to Oxford to film your client's house. It was fabulous. And then we just did. You just did an event at our store in Chattahoochee. So that was fun. And so now here we are. So we're just like. I know you're. You're sick of me too.

[D]

No, I, I. On our way in for this taping, I ran into Caroline out in the parking lot because she let me in and I had asked her if she was sick of me yet because there had. There, there's been like a good five month run now.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Where we've consistently been in touch. And what's really interesting about it is.

[D]

Because of my job that I've had for the past 11 years at HGTV as a designer of HGTV Dream Home. And there was a franchise that I was a designer of, which was called HGTV Urban Oasis, which is no more. I have spent the majority of my designer life not here in Atlanta. It's been in whatever cities those took me to. Plus my actual career has always been in production design. So I've always been going to sets to create them for the camera. And now that I'm back here, like, it's really, really.

[E]

It's a little bit of a shell shock to see the same faces again and again. People who I haven't seen in 10 years have been away for so long.

[D]

But now as a new dad, I.

[E]

Kind of love this. It's so true. All these cliches once you become a parent, like, you have to have this consistency. And I get being home now. Like, I wanna, I'm excited to jump back into the Atlanta interior design market. I mean, I really haven't been around that much. It's been over a decade, but I'm happy to be back. And obviously I'm. I'm here to stay now that I have a year and a half old.

[D]

Is that how you say I'm so new up and you date if she's a year and a half old? Do I say a year and a half?

[B]

Well, you can be weird and do the months, but it's not weird until over two.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So I just call her an 18 month old.

[B]

Yeah, you call her 18.

[C]

Oh, yeah, that's totally.

[A]

18 months is. Yeah.

[B]

Year and a half. That's awesome.

[E]

But I wouldn't do 36. I could, I wouldn't say 24 either. Maybe I stopped the most at 18.

[A]

Once you get over 20, it starts to be a lot.

[B]

Yeah. When. When people say like 32, then like there's a lot of math.

[A]

I don't like math, which I don't love. Yeah.

[E]

That's like show off at that point. It's like you're a parent or you a mathematician. Make up your mind.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

But anyway, thank you for having me.

[D]

On your lovely podcast.

[A]

Well, welcome back to Atlanta.

[B]

It sounds like.

[A]

And you've always had, you've always done client projects. I actually, I wouldn't. I think we all went to one of your client projects in Ansley park, was on a tour of homes.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

For some type of. Yeah, it was for. It raised money for something for school, I believe.

[B]

Was it the no photos one?

[A]

I don't remember, but it was, it was absolutely fabulous. And I remember walking in, loving the design. I don't know if I didn't have like the pamphlet or whatever, but I went, walked in, did the whole tour and then found your, Your like card or like whatever.

[D]

The, the placard.

[A]

The. Yeah, the thing that was talking about who the designer was. And I was like, oh my gosh. I didn't know Brian Petrick flended this house. It was, I loved it. That was so unexpected.

[D]

I know, I, I, it was so.

[E]

Traditional for if you guys aren't aware.

[D]

Of it, it was. So I took some, I've taken somewhat of a break, not from Atlanta in general, just because when, when I went through the whole process of trying to become a dad, especially in a two dad family, everything was done through science.

[E]

So egg donor, first of all, after.

[D]

Egg donor, surrogate and then creating embryos. There's a whole thing we went through for three and a half years to make this dream which we never thought would be possible come to life. To have it, to be a same sex couple and have a biological child.

[E]

It'S like absolutely mind blowing.

[D]

So I think like I wasn't really rooted here anymore.

[E]

I was like, it was coming back here, resting, getting all my stuff together. Go back to other houses.

[D]

Where's that going with this? We were just talking about, I remember.

[A]

The house in Ansley, the client house.

[D]

So I got the opportunity to do this house for a couple in Ansley and they had remarkably, they had remarkably traditional taste, but they had incredible taste. So I kept thinking, wow, if they're going to push the envelope, like traditional has not been my thing. It is by far the most successful project. I think that even like from a social media metric standpoint, the rooms people just went bananas for them. And basically the thing that's mind blowing to me about that particular project was 99% of everything that appears in that house was already there. It was just a matter of then bringing in new fabric to pull together the upholstery, new wall covering to pull the floor covering into the upholstery and then into the drapery and reframing art and then bringing in new accessories and the client. It was so insane because I, here I was with a husband and wife and I was like, okay, you want me to infuse color in the house? And I think we're doing a straight up Kelly green and hot pink guest bedroom. And then there's the me I know as a designer who uses color that I need to wait for them to say absolutely not or be like, get.

[E]

The hell out of my house, I'm calling the police.

[D]

But they, they did not. And, and no, they, there was like no pushback. It was like both husband and wife were on board with everything. And I, I knew when I first took that job, I'm like, this is going to be. This is going to be a house that I'm really going to be proud of. Cause I'm not a traditionalist.

[E]

And the house really was. And, and everything was really elevated and they said yes to all the textures I wanted to bring in. And we did it in 2022, which.

[D]

Is when we had that big problem with supply chain.

[E]

Do you remember that?

[D]

Yeah. Oh, what am I asking you if.

[E]

You remember that you work in.

[D]

This is a retail company.

[E]

It ruined designers lives. Cause I remember thinking, okay, I've got my general contractor who'. But he only has access to so.

[D]

Much wood and so much nails.

[E]

And then. And then chips were gone, like computer chips. So everything we did had to be done by the beginning of August before the kids went back to school.

[D]

And I was. Remember at the time I was doing an HGTV dream home in Red Rocks, Colorado. And here I was there installing, hoping that all the stuff had showed up.

[E]

Here and the bosses had stuff in them.

[D]

I don't know what happened, but I think we had the right people on the job. But I'm very proud of that project. And it had like a, like a 16 or 18 page spread in Atlanta.

[E]

Homes and Lifestyles, which I didn't know that was possible. And we didn't get the COVID or anything. But I remember looking at it, I'm.

[D]

Like, you know what? Maybe this new phase of my life.

[E]

Especially being a new dad, perhaps. Perhaps I am becoming a traditionalist. How about you guys? Would you say you're traditional or you're more modern?

[A]

I like a little of both.

[B]

We're definitely a mix.

[A]

Yeah, we like both. Do you us individually or us as Ballard?

[D]

Individually. As decorators who work in the decorating business.

[A]

Yeah, that's probably the most actually. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I probably lean more modern, but yeah.

[B]

I feel like your house is very traditional. Yes, it's rooted in tradition. And then your forms you like, I would say are modern.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

And Caroline likes a clean silhouette.

[D]

I've seen pictures of Caroline's house. It's.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Perfect.

[E]

It actually looks.

[D]

It looks like. Well, I think it looks like your.

[E]

Personal style as well. Yeah, I can see that house.

[D]

Taryn, I'd be fascinated to know what yours is. Pattern or no pattern, neutrals or color.

[A]

And yes, you're. I feel like you use a lot of traditional forms, but like you have a very playful palette.

[B]

Yes, I feel like I'm closer to being like you. Like, I like to pack a punch of color. Like it can't. It can't be plain or it's boring.

[C]

No, that's totally true.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I think what's really exciting is like we all have Ballard in our house. A lot Ballard in our house. And it plays to either one.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

If you want to go more traditional or if you want to go a little bit modern.

[D]

My house, my Atlanta house, is a 1965 mid century modern. And I would say at least three or four of the rooms have pillows that are from Ballard or accessories that have been bought in the past 12 to 13 years. And they're definitely traditional, but they fit in perfectly in this super modern house. And that is especially with a lot of the designer collections you have, like through Miles Red and Su.

[E]

Suzanne Castler is another one.

[D]

Right.

[E]

And Bunny Williams.

[D]

A lot of those can easily fit in any different type of architecture.

[E]

But I want to ask something on this podcast that's super controversial.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

And I did this last week. I was at adac and I went to one of my interior designer friends who lives in Jacksonville, and he's another designer that uses a ton of color. And you know when you go to a a talk afterwards, you open it up for questions. I always want to be the icebreaker because I know the audience.

[E]

People are terrified to be called out. They're there in the audience. They don't want all of a sudden a hundred people looking at them for their questions. So I just usually break the ice by asking a question.

[D]

But I, I didn't know if I was going to get an answer or not. And the question was, I wanted to know what his most used paint color is.

[E]

Mine is Sherwin Williams Extra White. And then after that would be Sherwin Williams Tricorn Black. And he didn't answer the paint question. Cause his a. He said I don't have one because every single house I do is so different. There's. I don't have one paint color to choose more than others.

[D]

And that blew my mind because most design, most designer clients of mine will be like, hey, will you please tell.

[E]

Us what whites or blacks to use?

[D]

But he said his least favorite color was orange.

[E]

And working for HD. I've been working with HGTV since 2010, so after 16 years, a lot of my work has always been based on SEO. And so I need to get into.

[A]

That more in a minute.

[E]

Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to. Like, I am basically SEO's. I can't say bitch, but if I could, that's my job. Has been CEO SEO for about 16 years.

[B]

Well, will you tell people What SEO is just in case they don't know what it is.

[E]

Yeah, yeah. So anybody that is listening and they're like, what is he talking about? It means search engine optimization. So it's whatever you put into the Google or the Google, put it on Google or on a search bar on a website, what happens is the network, like in HGTV's world, is collecting all that data and if it turns out there are a hundred thousand people in within like a 10 month span that are saying, how do I use beige in a bathroom? That means they need to have videos or photographs of beige bathrooms to answer what those people want. And so search engine.

[D]

Search engine optimization has been something that's been given to me to design off of for the past 16 years. I think that's what's so unique about my job. And it's also why as a production designer, brands have hired me, because they'll be like, listen, we're pushing this whole line of cranberry paint next year. Or we're going to be going into royal tones next year with royal purples and greens and blues. We need rooms that can suggest that, that are over the top and some that are real that reel it in a little bit. But where was. Why did I bring up SEO? I was talking about. So back when I go, I'm super tangential. So thank you for keeping my leash. Thank you for keeping my leash on.

[A]

This is your. This is your medium.

[D]

Thank you. Yeah, you'll keep me at bay. I feel like I'm a little dog going to his training crate. But what I was going to say is he had mentioned his least favorite was orange. And back when I first started working with HTTP back in 2010, orange, red and brown were universally the most hated colors. And one of my favorite things to do as an interior designer is, is everybody has a thing they do with their clients. I want to know what are absolute nos from the homeowners. First, like, they hate this color, they hate this pattern, they hate the silhouette, this piece of art. I hate it. It's like they might have it, but it might have been passed down. And they're like, I hate that painting, but I have to have it somewhere in the house and I want you to figure out where it goes. But so, Tara, what would be your. What would be your favorite color?

[B]

Least favorite color?

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, man.

[C]

Do you have one?

[A]

I do.

[B]

We have one. That's what I'm really trying to think through because I love or I love orange. I love. I feel like it's like A. I don't know. Aqua probably is my least favorite.

[A]

Probably.

[D]

Caroline, what about you?

[A]

Orange.

[D]

Wow. So wait, you said. You said orange.

[E]

You said aqua. Aqua.

[D]

I'm shocked. I figure most people would actually find that to be a palatable, like, saturated tone, but beige, oh, my gosh.

[C]

I can't beige.

[D]

So I am torn between beige and lime green.

[A]

So, yeah, lime green is pretty bad too. I don't like lime green. You like lime green.

[B]

I can do green.

[C]

Yeah, like a chartreuse.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, but I think.

[B]

But lime.

[A]

Lime green is not chartreuse.

[C]

No, that's true.

[E]

Lime green is.

[D]

Well, people, there's lime green at the.

[E]

Bottom of that painting. But my answer has always been bent based.

[B]

It's always been beige.

[A]

Is your. Is your not lime green?

[C]

Okay, so chartreuse has more yellow and is a little dirty.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[E]

That's chartreuse right there.

[B]

See, we all agree that's chartreuse.

[A]

Okay. This is like. That would be more slime green.

[E]

Yes. Because chartreuse has a little bit of acid.

[C]

Okay. No slime green.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is what's killing me is so all these years, beige has never been a thing I had experience with.

[E]

But.

[B]

But I like beige in winter. No winter wardrobe.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I love camel.

[A]

Oh, love camel.

[E]

That's fair.

[A]

I know it's not beige. Nearby.

[C]

It's not beige.

[B]

Only linen. Linen I can do. But you're not going to call a beige wall linen.

[A]

See, I just need rebranding.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I love beige.

[C]

When I first moved to Atlanta, I moved into a townhouse and all the walls were beige throughout the entire place. And I.

[B]

Every apartment.

[C]

And I could not paint it. And then the. The carpeting, the wall to wall carpeting matched as well. And it was.

[A]

That is terrible.

[C]

I. Yeah, I'm glad to not live there anymore.

[A]

But I like beige as a neutral mixed in with color. But I don't like beige as like a monotone.

[C]

Right.

[D]

So I just.

[E]

I say that, but I actually just finished my very first, like almost all beige project. And I can't believe I'm saying this, but this particular shade of beige kind.

[D]

Of sold me on it. I know, I know, I know.

[C]

So tell us more.

[D]

I think I have learned the differ beige that we all know from the 80s and 90s, where the carpet and the walls and the ceiling builder beige, the builder beige. And also the furniture that's meant to go into like a corporate rental is all beige. There's a very. It's almost like a dirty looking cream but then there's khaki, which is kind of it, which is in the camel world and it embraces itself more. And if you look at the color card, there are on the color card, there's khakis that can fall more into the almost brown gray world.

[E]

So I've rebranded beige.

[D]

And in my world, if I have clients that need that color tone in their house, I'm going to be calling it like the khaki family. And it works for me because this house that I just finished, I just did my first lake house ever. I've never done a lake house. And after sitting there watching the view with this beautiful bold teal go through almost every single room in the house, it is really nice to have that visual rest from your eyes, letting the neutral frame the beautiful blue and then the blue sky and then the green. So this is my first time doing it. I felt like such a fish out of water because just like Liz, my answer has always been beige. But luckily lime green didn't play in.

[E]

At all in this case.

[A]

I do feel like muddy colors look good in the lake house because the setting is muddier and more like woody.

[E]

Right.

[A]

Versus like a beach house where everything's more like a clean tones.

[B]

I kind of agree you. A house in nature is almost better with less color to me because the nature is where living in a city where I am looking, my views are other houses. I want the inside to be playful because my view is a neighbor's fence or, you know, like. Or my. Or the garden. But I'm just saying I think that does. Because I wouldn't. Hey, that's why I don't want beige.

[D]

I don't know. Well, and also a beach, to me, a beach house, that's where pure whites can come in because you're framing either if you, if you're, if you're doing a beach house in 30A, you're going to have the white sand. If you're where I'm from in Fort Lauderdale, it's going to be brown sand. But still, people would have white interiors. But I think when you're on the lake, you usually have a ton of trees and wood, whereas on a beach you just have a horizon line in blue and white or blue and beige. And I think that is why the warmer tones really work well inside. But I still can't believe that I just did a house and I'm super excited to share it on social because, yeah, it's. I mean, there's a lot of beige and it worked.

[E]

It's not flat at all. It's actually, it's got a lot of depth.

[A]

So how did you work the Bayesian in a way that made you happy?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And added that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

So the particular project that I'm talking about is.

[E]

So for the past 11 years I've been the designer of the HGTV Dream Home. And this is officially. This is, this is not actually brand new. This. Nobody knows this yet except for Hollis, but this will officially be my last one. It's sad to walk away because I've been really, really proud of this project for the past decade and things. When I was brought on back in 2015, I was supposed to do one of them.

[D]

In the TV world, this is what's referred to as a tent pole. So for example, like American Idol will.

[E]

Be Fox's tent pole. It's like the one thing that people, they know every year people are excited about and then you build other programming around it.

[D]

Well, it already been around for I think close to 20 years. When I came on board and I was asked by my boss at the time who. My bosses have been incredible. In fact, all of them were sitting at my wedding reception because they're all friends for life. I thought I was doing it for one year and then all of a sudden my wedding reception was 2018, which means this was like four years into it. Well, I kept getting renewed and renewed and renewed. And I think the reason being is my job as a production designer has been so different than a straight up residential, private client decorator, interior designer. Because SEO is such a huge part of my job. So I am hired again and again because I have one department that is wall covering which would be paint and, or, well, paint and, or wallpaper and maybe any other type of thing. Like a mixture that could create the look of like a not, not faux painting, but like plaster. So I usually, I usually wall carving. Cause it's more broad then we have, we have home furnishings, then we have like pavers, then we have like composite decking. Then we have the appliances, the countertops, the cabinets. There's like dozens and dozens of different categories that fit into something like this. So when I'm hired, I have these massive spreadsheets that show everybody's flighting. And when I say flighting, in the.

[E]

World of, of mer.

[D]

Of marketing, there are certain things that.

[E]

Need to be out in the world at this time through this type of merchant.

[A]

Like their schedule, marketing schedule.

[E]

For the sake of making sure this is out. Like it's almost like a campaign.

[D]

So I have to Check my own ego at the door and know I've got all this data from all these different brands. Like we want these particular 12 colors are going to be used because these are the ones that are going to be really big in 2026. Or these are all the pieces of furniture that you're allowed to have access to because these are the, the vendors that we will have in stock in.

[E]

20 a year from now.

[D]

So it's been a very complicated design.

[E]

Process because I really can't have my own opinion. I have to take all these opinions and then create a cohesive design that best showcases all these different things. And it.

[D]

Now that this is. I just completed my last one, it's. It's bittersweet because I really enjoyed it.

[E]

It has also kept me in so.

[D]

Many other cities, which is, until I became a dad, was incredible. Like, I got to spend, I got to. And I always get to spend the fall in these places. I got to spend one fall in Washington State, which is flawless. There was not a single day of rain. It was pure sunshine. And the day I got on the plane to leave Washington State was the, the very beginning of legit fall when it starts to rain. I never got to see that. And then the year after that, I was in Whitefish, Montana, which is one of the most spectacular places in the country. And I happened to be there all throughout fall. So I got there and things were starting to turn yellow. And by the time that I left.

[E]

The trees were bare.

[D]

So I had this incredible like over decade run of which I'm so grateful for.

[E]

And I'm going to miss it because I love that job so much.

[D]

There's this Taylor Swift song on the.

[E]

The tortured Poets department. It's called so Long London. And every time I hear it, I have to listen to it by myself because it makes me sad because there's this whole layer of this. She talks about like she's going to miss it because she loved this place because she lived in London and left the relationship.

[D]

But I'd been, I'd been in this.

[E]

Relationship with this job for over a decade. I've loved it so much.

[D]

But the thing that's so cool is this would not have been sustainable now.

[E]

As a new dad. I can't be gone seven months a year with a little one at home and.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean?

[E]

Everybody here, everybody in this conversation is a parent, right?

[C]

Yes. Yes.

[E]

Are, are, is anybody else in this group before parent of a girl?

[A]

Yes.

[E]

Okay.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

So two of us have girls. I, I Am. I'm a one and done. So hall and I. Clover is our. Will be. She's our only child. I'm turning 50 next year. So I. I think that I had.

[D]

Her when I was 47. One of the things that I learned is, like, the importance of consistency. And I didn't have it for so many years. And that's what I loved about my professional life, is that I got to be in a different city every single year. But that doesn't work anymore when you have somebody who has milestones every week. And I asked about the girl thing now because there's something really, really unique.

[E]

About the father, daughter relationship and the mother, son relationship. And I'm number three out of four.

[D]

Kids, and there's two boys and two girls. And I think I was always closest with my mom, like the aunt and.

[E]

When I was little, when I was.

[D]

A little boy with my dad for sports and stuff. But there's something about having a little.

[E]

Toddler now where I don't want to be gone.

[D]

Like, right when they're this age, I just want to be home.

[A]

Well, it's like, you work so hard.

[B]

To have them too. And, like, so then you're like. And at least in my case, I was like, I wanted this. Like, this is what I wanted.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So for me to then, like, escape from it feels a little like I'm missing the best.

[A]

The best few days, maybe a week.

[B]

Oh, no, it does.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

No, after the weekend, I was very happy to send them to school. That's not it.

[A]

But I meant, like, to miss the big stuff.

[B]

You do. You're like, this is why I had them. I wanted to enjoy this. I want to enjoy their happiness and they growing.

[A]

I feel like with adults, like, there's so few big milestones once you hit adulthood. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, it's weddings.

[A]

Weddings, babies, maybe like a big job or. But, like, they're kind of like they're years between them. Right. Whereas kids, like, they're all the time, especially babies. And then like their first ballet recital and their first day of school and, like, it just. There's so many miles. I know. It's like there's always something that's like, they're first. Yeah. There's always so many on the way, and so it's fun. You don't want to miss any of them.

[D]

And that's the one thing I'm so proud of when I've been asked by people, like, what are your. Like, what are your. What accomplishments are you the most proud Of. And I think waiting till I was older to become a dad, when I already had my career kind of taken care of and I'd been really smart financially with all my choices and being with HGTV for so long, there has not been a lot of. There's not been a lot of off months because being the designer on two mega franchises was incredible.

[E]

But it comes with a lot of responsibility and a lot of people's opinions and a lot of executives who've all been incredible to work with.

[D]

So I started to realize, like, wait, something's gonna change pretty soon. And I think waiting Till I was 47 to become a dad allowed me to. I'm much more patient now. If I would've been a dad at 30 or 31, I would've been impatient. I also would've had FOMO for my friends who were out living their 30s. So I got to do my 20s.

[E]

And my 30s and my 40s out there.

[D]

Now, at the end of the day, I love the idea of Friday night being inside watching Ms. Rachel and being.

[E]

In bed by 8.

[A]

And are you familiar? Yes. Are you familiar? Are you familiar?

[E]

The things that you start to talk when you. Oh, my gosh, there's so many songs like the Itsy Bitsy Spider and then. Oh, my gosh, all these songs that I thought I retired forever at the age of six are now back in my life and are on rotation. And Lisa Loeb, this big 1990s pop.

[D]

Star who sang that song that was in Reality Bites, she has all of these children's albums, and they are freaking incredible. So now I have this. I'm able to, like, play Caroline taking. Yes. And then there are all these. There's all these things called Rockaby Baby where they take actual classic rock and pop songs and do specifically on the xylophone. So like every Taylor Swift, Swift hit, even if it's not a radio hit, it's like there's a song called August. They have a Rockaby Baby version. So your kid could be in the car and you're singing along to all the words, but the kid is getting to hear all the xylophone and so the xylophone notes. So there's so many things now that being a parent in the digital age that are good, but, like, the screen time, that is not.

[E]

We're not doing that. Like, that's hard to fight because the minute you.

[D]

Right. Because you know, it'll keep them attentive. But at the same time, the dopamine hits not real.

[E]

Then they expect it all the Time. So it's a dance right now.

[A]

Okay. What have. How has your home changed since I was, you know, people can find your house. You've done a Homeworthy tour. It's been published in all sorts of magazines so they can find your fabulous mid century home. Has it changed much since she's.

[C]

Did you always dream of having a ball pit in your home?

[D]

Wow, there's a lot of questions being thrown at me right now. That's a process, all this. So, so the funny thing about when I did the homeworthy tour, it was Clover's only five months old and it was the one day on my schedule that I had available in Atlanta in between HGTV Dream Home and another project that I was doing at the time and I was not ready. It's one of the first things that's been out there on the Internet that I didn't, I didn't have enough time to have my cause. You know, in real life, especially when you have kids, rooms are not really styled.

[E]

You have piles everywhere. Like the house can still be clean, but it's by no means pared back or editorialized enough where you want people to see it in. I'm like, you know what, I'm just going to go with it and just let the house be shot the way it was. And every time I see it, part of me is like, listen, that's real life.

[D]

And another part of me is like.

[E]

Those side tables look terrible. Like you guys are fresh floral there. So I, I, I watched a little bit of it and then I was slowly cringing inside. Yeah, because, because it was not the way I wanted it to look.

[D]

But to answer your question, so I, I've never really been a true minimalist, but I'm a massive fan of like pure ultra white painted floors because of the way they reflect light. And in my mid century modern house, the exterior is tricorned black. So is our cabin. Our cabin in Ellijay, which is an hour and a half north, is also all tricorned black exterior and then all extra white Sherwin Williams on the walls and the floors. The reason I've always liked the white is mostly because I love how it bounce.

[E]

The white is.

[D]

I love how it bounces light. Well, people kept telling me, hey, once you have a kid, that can change. And I would argue and I'd say, no, no, no, the diff. Before I had white floors, I had glossy black floors. And a lot of people would say, are you kidding? Doing pure white floors with a kid? And I'm like, Listen. It's actually the glossy black floors that show everything. They become a mirror. And so I was always. I always push back on people. I'm like, white is easy to wipe. And I do stand by that. But what's happening is my little inanimate object was learning to crawl. And there is a massive difference between the thud like that onto a hardwood floor, and then a thud that's like this onto carpet. Because you know when you hear the. The muted fall.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

There's no cry and there's no running to make sure she's okay. When it was, like, on wood, even if she wasn't hurt, I was freaking out. So now, to answer your question, how does my house look?

[D]

You no longer know that I have white floors, because every single surface on the main floor of our house, we have two levels is covered in that.

[E]

Those.

[D]

The 20 inch by 20 inch modular.

[E]

Carpet tiles, and all different types of colors. And so when you walk into my house now, what has changed is every single room is, like, Technicolor. Even if the walls are white, there's, like a ton of color and powder on the floor.

[D]

And the reason I'm so proud of it is watching her freaking development. Like, she's walking down the hallway and it's all Roy G. Biv, and she's like. She's like yellow, green, blue, and she just knows it. And then she walks into another room, and it's blue and white, plaid, blue, white and purple. Plaid, blue, white, purple. So she's learning as she walks through every room and she looks at the art, Dolly Parton. Like, she'll see people. She knows things now. And I've realized that the way that I've decorated the house is, like, super educational. And it wasn't on purpose.

[E]

It just happened. And now every time my sister's kids.

[D]

Want to play, everybody wants to go to Uncle Brian's house because it's like. It's like one huge playroom.

[E]

It's not for everybody, but I also want to raise my daughter there.

[D]

And, yes, I do have ball pit.

[E]

Liz.

[D]

I never thought I'd have a ball pit.

[C]

I saw that on your Instagram. I was impressed.

[D]

I thank you for being impressed, because.

[E]

I was mortified when I put that out there.

[D]

But the ball pits these days. This is what's. What's happened so much with the younger generations is you can get a ball pit, and you don't have to get all primary colors. You can choose the exact pound of balls you want. So I specifically went with different shades of navy White and lavender and it's. It fits in perfectly. And every kid that walks in that damn house, they go right to that ball pit. Guess the one kid who has no.

[E]

Interest in the ball pit. Yeah. She's like, yeah, whatever. It's here all the time. Jump in as much as you want. She's in the corner usually playing with her Taylor Swift dolls. We do have Taylor Swift dolls. It is very ongoing thing in the house. Like at. We're like huge when we get our baby. Moon was to Tokyo to go to the ERAS tour. So like she's. Yeah, it was an incredible baby.

[C]

That's amazing.

[E]

Especially like at the 14 time difference. That was in February 2024. It was a month and a half before she was born.

[A]

Wow.

[E]

Yeah, it was a.

[A]

It was a year and a half ago.

[E]

Time flies, right?

[A]

Okay. I heard the most shameful thing about you. You like 5, 000 Kelvin light bulbs.

[D]

I know.

[A]

Expl.

[D]

Gross.

[A]

Shocked and appalled.

[D]

It's disgusting. I know. I know. I hate.

[E]

I hate myself for it.

[D]

So I had. Years ago, I. When I. One of the things that. One of the big milestones in my career was In June of 2018 I got my first major cover. It was House Beautiful. And it was for. We have a vacation home in Iceland. And it was for the COVID and my main photographer who I had been working with for so many years, Robert and I had shot the COVID for me.

[E]

Like we had not. We'd shot our own images and h. Not HTTP House Beautiful Love the images so much. They're like, we want to run the images that you and Robert shot. And she never told me I got the COVID but she invited me over, the editor on my way back from Iceland to stop in New York to.

[D]

Come back because flights.

[E]

The. The flights back home, the latest you can do is like six o' clock.

[D]

And by the time you connect you can't come back. So I spend the night in New York and we sat down for dinner and she plopped it in front of me and I'm like, wait a second.

[E]

I thought maybe we'd have like a one or two page spread. I never thought I'd get the COVID And I could not believe it was a full spread.

[D]

Where I was going with that was the Kelvin thing.

[E]

So I had just come back from Iceland, which is. Which in the winter is. Has a lot of bright white because there's a lot of snow. It's not necessarily super cold, but the snow sticks. And my obsession with 5000 pure blue daylight led Kelvin has to do with.

[D]

My career as a production designer. Because when you are in charge of a brand new color collection for a paint sponsor, you have got to make sure that when those TV camera lights come on, it's the exact shade of green or red or brown or beige or white or blue or aqua that they are selling. And the best way to do that is by having as the most pure white light as possible on when you're flipping on the practicals. So I've always lived in this world of using bright colors. And then when I started to put on like 3000 kelvin in my house.

[E]

And everything started to yellow, I'd be like, hey, I like pure ultra white.

[D]

But when I put all the lights on, I have that. Now I've got a cream or beige living room. And it kills me because people come.

[E]

Over designers and they're like doing it. Did he really use that thing?

[D]

Like they'll come over.

[E]

And then my one client who I.

[D]

Have my own lighting line with, Chris Rama too.

[E]

And a lot of times I use.

[D]

The 5000 Kelvin bulbs and she loves. I had this one fixture, it's like my bestseller. It's called the Truex T R Uax. It's my mother's maiden name and it's a 30 inch diameter mid century modern globe. But we traditionalized it by running a band of brass around the middle where the two half domes meet. So that way it can be shipped in a smaller box. It definitely won't break because we decided if we made it out of glass, we'd have like a 90% issue with breakage.

[E]

And then we found that if we did it in acrylic, they wouldn't break ever. And it became more family friendly.

[D]

So she was not home when we.

[E]

Installed the light fixture. And I got a text from her like a few days after I'd left town and she's like, we have to, we have to have a talk about the light fixture.

[D]

I'm like, oh no, oh no.

[E]

Oh no. Cause it's hard. These are so big, they're hard to install.

[D]

She was freaking out. She said I, she knew there was that I designed a light fixture shoe. She's like, brian, it looks like an operating room in here. And I was like, I don't know what she meant. She's like, it's like this white. It's like this overhead bright white. And it's like. She's like. And I realized that's right. I'm so used to the 5,000 LED blue sunlight Kelvin that other people see and they think they're in Walmart because.

[E]

It'S like that, you know, it's piercing.

[D]

And so it's too much. Right. It's almost clinical. And so now when people come over, I usually warn them first because I. So the answer is, the reason that I use it is because I use a lot of saturated color in my house. And when I do 3000 or 2600, 2800 Kelvin, if I have a blue, the blue looks purple. If I have the green, the green looks brown. If I use the 5000 Daylight Kelvin, the colors read true to their values. And that's my answer and I'm sticking to it. I know it's not for everybody and.

[A]

I'm sorry, that is.

[B]

I mean, I'm like an absolute not.

[A]

So that's absolutely not a hard no for me.

[D]

Same with you, Liz. Absolutely not.

[C]

No, absolutely, absolutely not. And I. Yeah. And I actually have a neighbor a couple doors down that has that throughout. And then he also has. He also has no shades, so it just like beams straight into. Into our house too. So sorry about that.

[B]

Neighbors are saying, oh, for sure.

[D]

Yes. And my outdoor lights are all. I have my outdoor lighting collection too. And they're all 5,000 Kelvin.

[A]

You know what?

[B]

They could have the blue white light.

[D]

My black, but it still looks black at night because there's not a lot of. There's not a lot of street lights are always out.

[B]

If it's black, you could just use the word.

[D]

It was still a gloss.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, it'll still look good.

[C]

I'll give it to you that you want to have like those, you know, that true color experience. Yeah, but like, yeah, to, to your clients, you know, talking point. Like it feels like an operating room. If it's. If it's all. If all. If it's all white walls and.

[D]

Yeah, she was right. It was. That room actually had beige walls, but we're Talking about a 30 inch diameter light fixture which.

[E]

Yeah, the output is like Oppenheimer. Like, it is by no means. Like it's no mean it's no by no means subtle. But that, that is one of the most controversial things that I've done and I stick by it. So I have not changed those. I've been in that house for 10 years and they have stayed 5,000.

[B]

I mean, you know, we've given a lot of advice on lighting about and color, but we've never said if you use 5000 and you use this color, we tell you to maybe it will be the same.

[A]

I mean, because we're always like, don't Reasoning your house. I just am shocked because we've had so many people on the show and they're pretty much on the other.

[E]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

End of the spectrum from you.

[D]

And the thing is, I can't argue with them because they are technically correct.

[E]

We're all decorators in this room.

[D]

Like, they are correct.

[E]

The warmth is good. But I just, I do not. I just, I don't like. If I. If my house was mostly muddy colors, I'd be fine with it because it wouldn't. It wouldn't affect anything. But I. For example, our. Our family room is blush. And it looks blush at nine o' clock at night. It looks. It looks blush at ten o' clock at night. If I had. If I had 3,000, it would look. It would look beige. So. But I, I do not.

[D]

For those at home listening, I do.

[E]

Not recommend doing what I do in my own house.

[D]

It's for my own obsessive.

[E]

You should, you should go with warm light. Just don't listen to me.

[A]

Well, it's funny because the, the house that you did in Oxford that we featured on our house tour series, it had some very warm tones in it. Like a lot of warmth, a lot of beige, actually.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

In that one particular room. And like, you know, lots of green with yellow undertones. You had some mauve. So I'm trying to think, did you put. What color bulb did you put in that house?

[E]

Oh, you're gonna kill me.

[D]

So it's 5,000 in there too. The reason being is my client is.

[E]

So lovely, she went with. So let me tell you, here's some reasoning behind this. She may have. She may have Very nice to me. She may have changed it since I've left. But. So this house that I did in, in Oxford, I. I don't have much experience there, except for. We call them our outlaws. So my sister married into a family who is very much big. And like, they have a big. They have a very rooted history there in Oxford. And so I call her my cousin, but she's actually my sister's cousin, like, in law. But we get along incredibly. We have the incredible. We have, like, very similar tastes. We're big movie people and music people. And when she got.

[D]

She had this house, I'm like, I.

[E]

Have to put my stamp on it. Cause it was this really cool.

[D]

It is this really cool probably 70s or 80s cottage, which could go any direction you want because it's not rooted in any actual classicism that would have any type of vernacular input. It's like, hey, you can do what you want here. And I was going through all the.

[E]

Different partners that I could work with to bring this house to life. Because there's a limited budget there. And also it's not the easiest place to get to because it's either a five hour drive or you have to fly into Memphis and then drive an hour. So I was going back and forth. Who could I actually pull off doing a full house in Oxford with? And when Ballard came to mind, it was like, okay, we're gonna do like a fresh take on traditional. We're gonna do things that are kind.

[D]

Of a total 50, 50 in the.

[E]

Middle between feminine, masculine. And also we wanted to have like a really early, really early 80s influence. And when I say early 80s, I was born in 76. So a lot of my memories of the early 80s would be the really high waisted pants, the gigantic glasses, the really flowy woman's hair, the men with the really long, not long mullet hair, but just long hair. And it was like super duper, like business masculine. Like men would have the tweed suits and they'd have the big glasses and the weird mustache, the porn mustache and stuff.

[D]

And when we were talking about like things that I wanted to do in that house, I was like, it has this one room that kind of looks.

[E]

Like one of those 70s or 80s sunken living rooms.

[D]

Do you know what those are?

[C]

Oh, yes.

[D]

You know what I mean? Those are two steps down and they're.

[E]

Super impractical, but they're gorgeous and sexy as hell.

[D]

We were like, I said, why don't we actually bring this back to like 1982, 1983, and do it all different shades of beige. I offered up beige, but I'm like, let's do it in a way where it looks like the beige that was.

[E]

A huge staple in like 1982, 1983. So we did. We. I already had these modular sofas that.

[D]

Were a very, very deep shade of taupe. And then we just built on that. And then when Ballard, when we decided to do the project together, you all have this really big, like almost 36 inch diameter, somewhat golden orb that looked.

[E]

Like, yes, it's traditional, but it has the scale and the opulence of something from Studio 54. Studio 54 died in the early 80s. And I was like, okay.

[D]

All these things were coming into mind. And I remember when I got in touch with you and Karen, I think when I was like, hey, this is going to be a Super 80s inspired house. And I don't think most people think of Ballard Designs and think of, oh, 1982, you know, @ all. But now that you've been there, you spent time in that house with me. Wouldn't you say that there's like a very fresh. Even the kitchen, because the kitchen. I decided to let the palate in the kitchen be dictated by the colors of kitchen appliances back in the late 70s, early 80s, which would have been harvest gold and avocado green. So we did. I don't remember what color the cabinets. Are they green or yellow?

[A]

Green.

[C]

Green.

[D]

They're avocado green. Right.

[A]

The splash was yellow.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

And the floor. And you. Yeah. You did the floor tile.

[E]

Yes, we did. We actually did a carpeted kitchen.

[D]

It's the.

[E]

It's the modular floor tiles, so it made sense. Cause there's a six year old who lives in the house.

[D]

But the reason I'm really proud of that house, especially working on with y', all, is I love to take things that don't. Don't go together and try to make them fit organically without looking forced. Do you. After you've spent a day and a half the house with me, do you see like an. An ongoing. Not theme or motif, but a thread that's woven through almost all those rooms that does look slightly feminine.

[E]

Early 80s and masculine. Early 80s.

[A]

Oh, it's fabulous. I've loved every single room there. It definitely has a. A retro vibe, but not in like an obvious or like a. Like a way that was that. Yeah.

[E]

It feels natural, performative.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[E]

It's kind of understated. Right.

[A]

It's like if you were to see someone in like a fabulous sort of 70s inspired outfit, where you're like, oh, that's perfect.

[E]

That sticks best. That is the best way to explain this house. Because especially the dining room. Because the dining room, we also. We also have a lot of natural lights. We added skylights. We did1 that's 4 foot by 4 foot.

[D]

A very big skylight in the dining room because the dining room is really shaded. But we went with the burlwood table from you guys. And then we also.

[B]

Ajax. Yeah.

[D]

What is. It's called Ajax.

[C]

Jax.

[A]

Jax.

[E]

Jax, Jax. Right.

[D]

And then the. That beautiful, feminine, almost scalloped chair parks.

[B]

Boom.

[E]

Is that what it's called?

[B]

This is a good quiz for us.

[A]

I know.

[E]

Yeah. And also I decided to do com with that because the silhouette is so incredible.

[D]

You can drastically change the style of that chair depending on the fabric.

[B]

Right.

[D]

So in my case, I, like, I.

[E]

Really wanted a solid, and I don't remember if I Decided to go mustard or if I went with avocado.

[A]

But green.

[E]

It's a green. Yeah. It might be velvet. It might actually be a little bit more in the emerald world.

[A]

Yeah, right, yeah.

[E]

But that mixed with the table, totally unique. And then the coffee tables that I did in the sunken living room are definitely in the traditional world. Oh, and also there's the bar drinking.

[D]

There's.

[E]

There's a table that's meant for like drinking and board games in the sunken lounge. And that is a walnut table with brass sabots at the bottom. And then it's the slip covered chairs that are barrel chairs. And then I have one of your skirted tables which is right underneath one of the skylights, which is packed with like plants that are thriving.

[D]

And I'm really happy because, like, I've never, like, I'd never used beige. Like I told you, I just did the workhouse. I'd never really gone back to the early 80s, and I feel like that house was a really, like, interesting juxtaposition of retro and new.

[A]

It fits her. Having met your client and cousin in law. What'd you say? Yeah, cousin law.

[D]

Cousin outlaw.

[A]

Outlaw.

[E]

It's the whole thing.

[D]

I'll figure it out.

[A]

It fits her, like, personal style.

[D]

Definitely.

[A]

And what I met of her, her personality, like, she's cool. She has very cool style. And so like for someone else, my, maybe it would feel ill fitting. Yeah. But like for her, I was like, oh, this makes sense.

[E]

It fits her style.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

And there's always vinyl albums playing, so like it really, really fits the style big time.

[D]

And it's Oxford, Mississippi, which is very traditional. I mean, it's a, it's a straight up south, but it is like, I think it's a liberal arts college, so you end up having a lot of.

[E]

Culture there because the young people really make it.

[D]

And, and I'm really, really proud of that project because I, I just, I had never seen myself doing something in Mississippi, especially because I'm away all the time. I'm usually not in small southern towns. So it was after doing these bigger city ones, it was a. I had.

[E]

No idea that there were so many people that lived there.

[A]

And you between that and the, the Atlanta house we were talking about earlier, like, you really should do more. I feel like traditional pieces, I think.

[D]

I, I think it might be that I'm turning 50 next year. I think that might be it. I think I'm starting to understand how people's taste evolves as they get older. Like, I will always be a mid Century modernist at heart. But I'm beginning to understand why people stick with traditional style silhouettes because they never go out of style and you can pass them down over years. And if you don't want it to be stuffy or boring or cliche, you throw in your own thing. And I think putting more traditional style furniture into my mid century modern house, I think what makes it designer.

[C]

Yeah. There were some pieces that you used in. In that house in Oxford that, like the sofa with the pleated skirt or the dining table, the round dining table that you used with the skirted chairs are more traditional, but they kind of ground everything else to be more playful.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I also thought it made it less one note.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Because if you had something that's supposed to go kind of retro, 70s, early 80s, then you add something super traditional. Think about a lot of the sets. I take a lot of my inspiration from Three's Company. And Three's Company, the set of that was super beige. It had this huge, like, iconic butterfly that from Life magazine. It was this frame thing that said Life and it's a butterfly. And everything was wicker and there's a lot of plants. And that style brings me back to sitting on the floor. 1982, 83, 84. As a little boy, you watch TV when it was live, there was like four channels. If I wanted to watch, if I wanted to watch tv, it was what my parents were watching.

[E]

And I'm looking back to those houses.

[D]

That always were modern at the time, but they had traditional furniture. And I think that's what made it.

[E]

What.

[D]

What makes a set feel more like a true home. If everything is the same style, you kind of feel like you're selling a.

[E]

Set, a furniture, versus, you know, creating a living set. That's supposed to feel like a real home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it loses its. It just feels like a stamped part of time.

[D]

Yeah. It doesn't age well.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Like, if you have different things from each sort of era, you can't tell. You can't exactly like, denote what era it was decorated. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you've got like traditional and.

[B]

Modern pieces and why we're all into it, because you can take something you got from your grandmother, you can go buy something new to mix with it, and you've got, again, this very livable space that continues to grow.

[D]

Have you all seen. So speaking of spaces. So what's really different about my world for most people is the production side. So I'm always designing things that actually, I know will Read well under different types of lighting. Things that will tell a story of the person who lives there. And the case of hgtv, something that will have mass appeal for all different types of taste levels. But in my career now, like 20 to 25 years, there are like two massive sets. One of them has been a directive that I've used for my career at hgtv. And it's this remarkably popular set from Nancy Myers. So any Nancy Myers film is going to have a huge cult following of people who love decorating. And it's. It. It is called Something's Gotta Give. It's with Jack Nicholson and Diane Keaton, and it is like one of the most beloved sets in modern cinema. And it is so simple. And I think it is because it's a mix of all these traditional things and it is super unfancy. It looks like somebody lives there. The. The character that Erica Berry, who's an author, played by Dan Keaton, is this remarkably intellectual New Yorker, I think. And you, you, you look at the furniture like, oh, this is like a.

[E]

Smart and classy person who's well educated, like, lives here and like, it's a comfortable place where you can run around without your shoes on, you can have a glass of wine.

[D]

So one of them from my career.

[E]

Has been with the people who love the set of Something's Got to Give, want to live here. And that's how a lot of times I've designed HGTV dream homes. And it's worked because I thought I was doing one And I did 11 of them. And then, then, which, I mean, the.

[D]

Proof that the, the metrics right there might be pretty strong in my favor, but the other thing is there was a movie that came out like in 2010, and it's this incredible film. It's. Do you know that the. The fashion designer Tom Ford, he directed a movie and it's called A simple. It's called. I think it's called A Simple Man, A Single Man. It's starring Colin Firth and Julian. Julie.

[C]

Julianne Moore.

[D]

Julianne Moore. Julianne Moore. She plays a character named Charlie. And it is another one of the most beloved sets because it straight up.

[E]

Is a Ballard design home set in the 60s. You guys don't even know this, probably, but it is so straight up. Ballard silhouettes throughout the entire house. It's. It's in Hollywood.

[D]

It's like a beautiful Hollywood Hills house. It's super feminine. She's a single woman. They're like best friends. And she, I believe she has an. A British Accent. Every room is totally badass rock and roll. But what's mind blowing is it's not.

[E]

It's like it's straight up traditional. There's a lot of blush, a lot of neutrals.

[D]

But the way the rooms are put together, every like woman and man was.

[E]

Like, I want to live there. Like, that house is badass. It's rock and roll, but it's traditional. And I think there is something about when you mix the traditional with something unexpected, whether it's a piece of art or it's a light fixture that's a little bit more 70s or a little bit more sculpture or even mid century or Scandinavian. I think that is what captures, I think, the millennial and possibly the Gen X audience. As far as Gen Alpha and Gen Z, I have no idea what the.

[A]

Hell they like, do you?

[E]

What is Gen Z like for interiors? What do they like?

[A]

Well, I feel like there's a lot of the grand millennial thing and. Which I guess maybe you could argue is millennial, but I feel like it also skews younger than that. But then also the Nancy Myers thing. Yeah, I feel like that's still relevant, right? Yeah. Or. But maybe that's just my algorithm. Well, you know, speaking of Nancy Myers, I rewatched with my. My husband was out of town, so I watched the Parent Trap. The Nancy Myers Parent Trap with my girls this weekend. And those house, I was. I was honestly thinking about it, the whole movie.

[B]

Those houses also are Lindsay Lohan one.

[A]

The Lindsay Lohan one. There's the Napa House, and then Natasha Richardson's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

London Townhouse. Both of those are gorgeous.

[B]

That's a fun one to watch after you have kids. So I watched that like last year and I was like, oh, really? You just like had these two twins?

[A]

Were like, you know what?

[B]

You take that. I'm never gonna see that dog again.

[D]

I've never seen it.

[B]

I know on your to do is watch it as a parent now and be like, yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

And then they're both very wealthy, independently wealthy.

[B]

She's this designer and he owns this vineyard. And you're like, oh, you both were wealthy.

[A]

They both have full time help. Yeah, yeah, I hang out. But watch, I pulled apart.

[B]

Okay, sorry, sorry.

[A]

But the set was fantastic. But both of their homes, they were like, oh, yeah, I would move in right now. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[D]

Well, I'm excited about this because I have a friend who I think actually is in that. Like an actress friend who's in that movie. But there's Another movie. So as far as I understand. So Nancy Meyers did.

[E]

This is the Parent Trap. Right. Which is not the same as Freaky Friday. That's not Nancy Meyers.

[C]

Totally different.

[E]

I've not seen. So I was planning to last week, going to see Freakier Friday on my own. And before I was going to watch Freaky Friday first, because I haven't seen it. But the Parent Trap is the other one I hadn't seen yet. But listening to you guys talk about it might be a good thing to watch with Clevver when she's three or four. Right. It's, like, fun.

[B]

Oh, it is a fun one.

[A]

It's a cute. Yeah, that's what it's for, girls.

[E]

Oh, it's twins, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cute. You can watch it in a few years.

[A]

But that's a. But she does always have great sets. It's. They're like a mix of, like, approachable and familiar. You know what I mean?

[D]

Definitely.

[E]

And they're not.

[D]

But they'd also. There's something that's highbrow about them.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

In a way where it's not. It's not, like, done for show, you.

[E]

Know, it's not like dropping like a.

[D]

A Birkin into a room to prove your status.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

You know, I think that's how she designs, like, those.

[A]

That set, the Something's Gotta Give set is and has been like the pinnacle for, like, 15 years.

[E]

Nuts, right?

[D]

Like, yeah, it's a 2003 movie. I was still in college when that time.

[A]

20 years. 22 years.

[D]

Yeah. Almost 25 years. And I remember it's still. And it's all different generations that love that set. And then the other one is there's another movie that came out a few years later by Nancy Myers called It's Complicated with Alec Baldwin and Meryl Streep. It's funny because those two movies were shot in the opposite places in which they portray. So I believe in Something's Gotta Give. I think she's supposed to be living in the Hamptons, but that house is actually shot in Santa Barbara. And then conversely, I think that they actually shot in the Hamptons for Meryl Streep's house, which is supposed to be in Santa Barbara, which is interesting because.

[E]

I mean, that's funny.

[D]

That's why I love production design, because it is nuts.

[E]

I don't know how we're pulling this stuff off, but with the right camera angles and the proper aesthetics, establishing shots, you could fake anything.

[A]

Would you ever go into, like, set design? For a feature film.

[D]

I don't, I don't think so anymore because now that, now that I'm a dad and I have a little one, the super long days that I loved and was so enthralled by, to me I, the idea of missing a milestone in a former life. Absolutely keep going and going to film production but it's a remarkably hard, it's a very hostile environment because those are long days with you know, 300, 400 people on set. The insurance is through the roof, everybody's super stressed out. And now I've had this incredible like 16 year run with it run at with HGTV which has been incredible. And I, I, I'm walking away like with so many good memories and I.

[E]

It'S, I don't know how I got so lucky in a previous life because most people after 16 years in a place would just be like, I never want to see you people again. This has been the worst. But I have, I've had like a really good run and I've made some really good friends along the way and it has been so collaborative and I think one of the reasons being is.

[D]

You have to have really thick skin when you're designing something that's going to be seen by tens of millions of people who are going to scrutinize everything. So what I've always done is I've once we go live in December every year with HTTP Dream home. I usually I try to uninstall Instagram for until like maybe Christmas or so or I have it. I have, I have two phones. I have a regular phone and a content phone that's specifically used to capture.

[E]

Like content with cinematics. I love the cinematic feature on video and I, I never post my, I never post social media in real time. I never want it to affect my actual socialization.

[D]

So if we were hanging out together, all of us for drinks, I might.

[E]

Take out my content phone like before.

[D]

I'm gonna go to the bathroom and find a really cool establishing shot of us all having drinks. When you don't know I'm watching you.

[E]

And get some beautiful black and white of you guys sharing drinks. And then I have like something later that I could put into a real or post. It just seems real. It seems more, it seems more, it seems more like documentarian style. So, so I think I got really lucky where I had. I got to do what I went to school for and work as a production designer but more on the interior design relatable level. I would say my least favorite part of My job was people's opinion.

[D]

Yeah, I believe it's, you can please some people all the time or all the people. Like that's the same thing some of the time.

[E]

Yeah. And it made my life easier because I was like, okay, there's no way you're gonna hit 100%. There's no way.

[A]

Unless you're Nancy Meyers.

[E]

Apparently, unless you're Nancy Meyers, then you get to get a, then you get a set designer.

[A]

But whoever that is, why have they not come forward?

[D]

I don't know.

[E]

I want to know.

[A]

Okay, sorry. What, wait, so what are some things that you might design for a set that would, that like, would surprise people or like ways like things about a set that maybe would surprise people in, in true film.

[D]

So if I was doing an actual commercial, like not HGTV Dream, not HGTV Dream Home. Because HGTV Dream Home is so specific because somebody actually wins it. So every single thing that's in the house is photographed exactly as it's going to be. And every single thing that's in the house is part of the prize package. So nothing can be moved, moved or changed. But when you were shooting a commercial and you have a scene that involves.

[E]

Say a character or multiple people or actors and a pet, you usually, I know this sounds really insane. Sometimes you will have different modifications of.

[D]

The same piece of furniture.

[E]

Which means in a wide shot, if you've got two people sitting, having a conversation on a three seater sofa, it might be the actual size you would have in real life. It might be say a 96 inch to 110 inch sofa. But when you change to a tighter shot and you have a new focal length, focal length on your lens, those people might appear way too far apart in a closer shot sitting on the sofa in the same. Because you have to have continuity. So they might be in real life. The gap that you have between you might is great. But when it's time to do the close up up, there's sometimes a set dresser with two other versions of that sofa, much smaller. So you guys get up, the other one comes in, the next closer up shot comes in and you seem less wide, less far apart from one another. So this is stuff nobody would. I could talk about this for hours because this is my job, like, and so you have to like have back.

[D]

Because the worst thing about working as a production designer is when the camera rolls, everything has got to be there.

[E]

There's no resetting. Everything has to be in place because every minute is thousands of dollars. So you have to have a backup plan for every backup plan. And you have to know you have to have a bunch of extra fabric for anything that's on set. Like, Hollis works in wardrobe. He probably has to, like, have 10 of the same jacket or 10 of the same shoe. Because if something is needed for a scene and it has a little bit of a mark on it, you're holding up camera. You cannot hold up camera. So my job is to make sure the cameras are always rolling, and everything that's on that set has got to be correct for that particular scene.

[A]

So you might have several different versions of the same couch.

[E]

That's very likely. And also same with possible dining tables. And it would. It's more about the scale. So it has to do with, like, how are these people gonna fit on this? Or you might do one that's extra deep. If it's a scene where it's. There's intimacy. So if there's a scene and there's intimacy and people are not necessarily upright having a conversation. They're moving around. It has to be wide enough to hold their bodies. Otherwise, you're doing choreography with these actors who are now, like, having an arm over the side of a sofa. That make no sense. I, I, this is so nerdy, but I love talking about this stuff.

[A]

No, it's interesting. So what if. What if it's, like, a fixed set? Like, like a, like the friend set? Or like, a set where you're, like, always shooting in the same space? Like, they have different versions of that same. So if everyone sits on off wings.

[D]

I think that back in the 90s. So that came out in 93.

[A]

Like a Sig.

[D]

Yeah, like, so when I believe that in a traditional sitcom art department, you would probably have these gigantic rows behind the scenes that nobody would see of extras.

[E]

Because if all of a sudden, like, an actor accidentally knocks over that Tiffany lamp, there's continuity. You can't go to the next scene if that lamp is broken. It has to become part of the plotline if it's broken.

[D]

So usually there are multiples of almost.

[E]

Everything on that set, But a lot of times, if it's an antique, you can't. There's only one. And that way it's documented like crazy. There are Polaroids on Polaroids of that thing from every angle, exactly where it should be placed on the table. Like, there's this movie in the 90s called Misery with Kathy Bache, who won the Oscar for it, and it had to do with. There was a little tiny penguin figure, and she knew that the author, played.

[D]

By James Caan, who she was torturing, she knew that he got up and.

[E]

Tried to escape because she was a perfectionist.

[D]

And she knew that the penguin's beak was supposed to be, like, facing west.

[E]

But it was facing north or something. But that's your job. And there's a job called continuity. And Your job is 100% to have.

[D]

These huge folders where it's just pull right after pull. Rate of. Okay, this is this way. Counterclockwise. That page of that magazine is open on that table for this scene, but on that scene, it's closed. That's somebody's job.

[B]

I would be terrible at that.

[D]

It's also terrifying. You get it wrong that you have to redo the scene that cost thousands of dollars.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

But, I mean, Friends definitely had to have.

[E]

They had to have multiples of those things because those. Those were very specific.

[A]

But do people really notice?

[C]

No, apparently we don't. We don't notice.

[E]

People in production would notice. Directors notice that there's a keen eye.

[A]

Someone's gonna.

[C]

But everyday people.

[A]

I feel like everyday people would. Yeah, yeah.

[E]

No, they wouldn't. And also, it's. It's the amount of precision that goes into making a set feel like a real home.

[D]

Even just with stains in certain places.

[E]

Or even in the TV show Roseanne.

[D]

They had this knitted, like a very classic knitted, like, afghan. Yes. On the back.

[A]

Yes.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

On the browns, yellows and reds or something. Yeah.

[D]

It's familiar.

[B]

I can picture it without even.

[D]

Right.

[E]

And it's a character because. Just similar to the Victorian frame that's on the peephole of.

[A]

Oh, my God. Yes.

[E]

Those little things are like.

[D]

That's a character.

[E]

You had no idea. You were watching 10 seasons of a show where that. That is a character. It's like one of. It's. You recognize it? Actually. The first season of Friends, one of the most fascinating things about it is the original set designer had this post because it was a loft and. Right. If you ever watch season one, there's, like, 10 episodes where you're like, where.

[D]

Did that beam come from? There's a beam right in the middle of where people are usually standing. And then it's gone forever from the other seasons. But they realized that beam, when you open the front door, it was causing weird shadows to happen in production. And also, it was a place where the characters would gather and from different angles of cameras, you had a beam in the way of Joey. So if you go look, you can even Google it.

[E]

You'll See, there's a, there's a famous Beam production. We all know about it.

[D]

We know all about it.

[E]

And also. And then Lucy and Ricky. Lucy and Ricky.

[D]

Lucy. Lucy.

[E]

Well, no, the Lucy and Ricky. His real name was Desi Arnaz in real life.

[D]

Yeah. They created the two camera format for sitcoms. They like, they, they were like the masterminds behind the whole technical art of creating a sitcom. I love this stuff. I didn't. I love this. I know.

[E]

There's a whole movie about it. It's called Meeting the Ricardos or Being the Ricardos. This one Nicole Kidman and Javier Brennan. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Wow. But you know what? Just like regular, like just everyday good design, the, that thoughtfulness is the reason why we don't notice it. That's true. Right. Because good design just plays a really fantastic backdrop.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

And effortlessness comes with experience.

[E]

And that's why I think like when I was, when I was brand new and starting out, I used a lot.

[D]

Of color and a lot of pattern that was over the top at the time. It still is now.

[E]

But I felt like I had something to prove it back then. And now the new beige version of 49 year old me kind of get it. Like there's certain things that just are.

[D]

Going to stand the test of time. And 30 year old me had a lot more to say and I still, I'm still proud of that work that I did as a self taught designer back in the, in the early 2010s but I was a lot of those things I would never do today. I also had limited knowledge, limited, limited access to materials and limited access to artisans back then. Now I can have everything made similar like you all do, you know, people to make things and upholster things and all that.

[A]

So you mentioned before that a lot of your design choices for the dream home were driven by SEO and were like things that the teams kind of suggested like this would be something people are interested in. Like can you work that in? Was there anything that you were ever like, I hate this, I do not want to use this. But like I must.

[E]

It's actually, it's converse.

[D]

It's the other way around. So when I did one of the first houses that I did was in Asheville and the idea was to do something that was like a modern take on folk. Because it was west Asheville, almost every.

[E]

Neighbor around the house had their own chickens. So it was a very farm to table area and people were very into folk art. And I always wanted to make the houses fit the vernacular. So Most of the styling for the rooms was done. I went to these. Not flea markets, but they were. What's the other word? An antique mall. And there's a famous one. And I forgot what it's called. It's like a, it's some type of man's name.

[A]

It's like a, a giant red barn.

[E]

It's a giant red barn. It's, it's, it's amazing, it's incredible and it's famous.

[D]

And I went there and I accessorized the majority of the house with worn.

[E]

Somewhat farm inspired things that they were by no means fancy. They just felt like down home, old school. When I got the data back from the marketing department, they're like, hey, so we have these pages. People did not know. People did not like all the accessories. They thought there was too many things.

[D]

And I always will listen, I always listen to the data because it doesn't lie.

[E]

So I couldn't really get upset about it. So to answer your question, I, I had to take that narrative and realize, wow, people want more minimal styling. So then it became more about like a stack of books and fresh floral and that kind of raided through the roof. So that would be. It's kind of the converse of what you asked. But I would say if there's anything that was given to me that I hated that I had not on HGTV Dream Home, but I used to work on when I was younger. In my 20s, I used to work on a, a makeover show because I started, I went to film school and then I became a news producer.

[D]

And while I was working in news production, I got laid off right around 911 and into like actual 911 because people were just not working. And I got lucky and I started working for the production company that was about to start shooting season two of Trading Spaces. And they needed a producer who understood interior design.

[E]

I happened to knock on the door because I was looking for work and I was gonna move back in with my parents at 26. Cause I'm like, I'm not, not gonna do a cubicle farm job. I've got to work either in news or like truly working in this interior design world. It's because the only thing that I.

[D]

Love, my parents were like fine. So I moved back in with them as a grown ass adult. And it turns out the production company I went to, they're like, listen.

[E]

So we were already staffed up, but we had this new show, this Discovery Channel show that became the rival of.

[D]

Of Training Spaces was called Surprise by Design. And they hired Me because they saw.

[E]

That I knew how to strip and refinish furniture. And I also could write a script and direct a scene we had. So that got me my job working.

[D]

For the Discovery Channel.

[E]

And then what's really interesting is the Discovery Channel. Discovery merged with HTT back in 2017. So I legitimately worked at Discovery Channel my entire career if I think about it. But, but I had a little bit.

[D]

Of a break where I worked here.

[E]

At Turner Studios for tbs and there was a makeover show called Generator in a movie that had a spin off sister show called Movie and a Makeover. And I started as a producer on that because I had the experience working on these makeover shows.

[D]

So I was a director behind the scenes for anything that had to do with home transformation. And my job would be to make sure that we made a schedule and we had all the right artisans to do the work. There was this one sponsored episode where it was, it was sponsored by a retailer that I don't think is even in, I don't think this retailer is even around anymore. But they had a very specific zebra print and coral and terracotta and pink and aqua coverlet set that they were pushing for like back to school or something. Oh, interesting. And I had to design the entire room around this absolutely hideous thing. And I, I, it was my job.

[E]

My job was to make this thing look good. And by no, I, I, it was.

[D]

So I did, I don't know how I did it. I did the whole room. I did like this monochromatic thing or which is blush on blush on blush on blush. And I try to minimize all the zebra and stuff. And I remember being so mad at my executive producer who's still like a lifelong friend or family to me, and she was like, listen, no, the sponsors are who are paying for this. So this is the piece they're paying for.

[E]

So design a roommate. That was back, I think 2008. And surprisingly enough, there are no professional portfolio images of that room in my.

[B]

Oh no.

[A]

Do you have photos anywhere?

[D]

I absolutely do. And that will be burned very soon. What an idiot I was.

[E]

I was so new back then. I kept photographing my houses at night.

[D]

You don't shoot interiors at night.

[E]

Use all natural daylight with everything on a long exposure.

[D]

But I learned so much about, I learned so much about photography from those mistakes that I made. But the client or the brand was really happy and the homeowner loved it because her daughter. It was, it was a, it was a beautiful. Otherwise, everything else in that room was custom. But yeah, that one time I had to use that. That I had to reverse design something around the most hideous coverlet in history.

[E]

And none of it was natural materials. I mean, it was probably flammable at the time.

[A]

That's amazing. That was a good one. Okay, before. Last thing, before we go, we talked off camera about doing an in versus out little segment.

[D]

I have opinions.

[A]

Wrap up with that. I know you have opinions. That's why we want to ask you.

[E]

I have a very controversial one that's going to piss a lot of people off. So you can't get mad at me. And I'm doing. I'm doing fine print here. Okay, we're going to start it with this. I love when things are popular because I love pop culture and I love.

[D]

When something becomes a huge part of.

[E]

Like the narrative socially. Like it. It timestamps something like, you know, that like, for example, like. Like the sets of TV shows we're talking about right now or a very popular.

[D]

Look.

[E]

I don't know if you remember, like in the. There was this very popular thing in the late 90s where girls had a necklace that had bubbles on it. Like, you guys.

[D]

You blow.

[E]

Did you have that? It was a trend. It was a little thing with an.

[D]

Actual bubble and you could. It had a little bubbles maker and you could unscrew it and blow bubbles.

[C]

And it was just going to raves. Like.

[E]

No, I think this was like raves.

[C]

Rave jewelry, children.

[D]

This was popular because. It's the opposite. It was popular because of a 90s sitcom called.

[E]

She Made It Popular. She had a big hat with a sunflower. The sunflowers were a thing. So all that to say, I have tried this big new trend. What are we talking? We're saying we'd like in. Okay, I'm not in with this. I'm out with it. And I've tried it firsthand because I wanted to see what all the rage was about. And I am by no means telling people they're terrible for liking it, but I've tried it and I do not understand people's obsession with it.

[D]

And it's pickleball.

[B]

Ah.

[E]

And I would say half of my.

[D]

Social world loves it. And I tried.

[E]

I tried, actually tried it in North Carolina two months ago, and I actually enjoyed it. I enjoyed the social around it.

[D]

Because the way that things are, these.

[E]

Things are built is you can have 10 courts and they usually have nearby is incredible food or there's also a place to have a drink in between.

[D]

But I did not understand. I didn't think it was that different than playing tennis. So I guess my thing is I.

[E]

Don'T understand why people have taken on to pickleball so much more than tennis. Does any. Do any of you understand or do you play?

[A]

I don't play.

[C]

Pick four.

[A]

10. So I can't.

[E]

So none of you really have a strong reaction?

[B]

No. So only listeners are yelling at you that we can't hear.

[E]

Okay, that's fair. And plus, that's fine with me because, like I said, I tried it and it didn't seem that different. I also am 6 foot 5, so I have a really big wingspan.

[D]

So if I'm gonna do anything that involves a racket and a ball, I'm gonna have an advantage because I take up so much progress.

[C]

That shorter.

[E]

Yes.

[D]

So I don't know. Did not understand the difference between that and tennis court.

[B]

Were you just as good?

[D]

I was just as bad. I don't like team sports. I like sports where I can not have anybody to play with. So I like. Yeah.

[B]

How do you feel about mahjong?

[D]

There's another one I would really fail at that. I like lifting weights. I like running sometimes.

[A]

This is going in a very.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I was thinking inverses out. And I was going to name design trends, and you tell me.

[E]

Listen, it doesn't actually work.

[B]

You said trend.

[A]

That's true. I didn't specify design.

[E]

I will tell you my least favorite design trend in history.

[A]

Wait, can I give you my list?

[E]

Absolutely.

[A]

Well, I have to.

[E]

I love everything about this.

[A]

Yeah, we'll end with that.

[D]

Okay, go for it.

[A]

I'm going to. And then I'm going to. I have a couple written down. And then you'll. I'll throw in whichever one.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Beige.

[E]

In.

[D]

But fine print, because it depends on how it's used. If you use something in the khaki world, I'm all in on it.

[A]

Okay. What about pleated lamp shades?

[D]

In.

[A]

In.

[E]

Okay.

[A]

Color drenching.

[D]

In. I'm always a fan.

[E]

Yeah, I, I, I, I, I actually prefer. I say with color drenching, if you don't have interesting trips and you don't have interesting doors and you don't have an interesting ceiling detail, color drenching is an amazing thing to let those not so interesting things fade away. Conversely, if you're in historic house with the sickest trim and the sickest medallions, and you do the color drenching, but you change the finish, it's the most incredible way to highlight something. So I do think I'm a huge fan of it.

[A]

Okay. What about white kitchens?

[D]

Oh, no, I have one and I'm remodeling, so I'm gonna say out.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

Nice.

[A]

I'm just for the record, naming things that are, like, popular and I'm loving this is not like setting judgment on it.

[D]

No, no, I love this.

[E]

I think that we are. We are not gonna get in trouble with anybody because we're just talking about trends that are out there.

[A]

It's more like what is. What is coming and what is out there. You know what I mean?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Blue and white.

[E]

In always. Always.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. What about mauve?

[D]

Oh, that's a tricky one. Oh, it is. It is by far one of the most used colors in my history of my career. Which is bizarre because most used colors, it. Mauve is one of mauve and purple. But when I first started doing houses, I don't know what I did. Right. Yes.

[E]

I'm gonna say in. I think, I think it's. It's an unexpected neutral that kind of. It kind of goes with almost every other color when it's used in moderation. I think the most muted shades of.

[D]

Mauve kind of fall almost.

[E]

Almost lavender adjacent.

[D]

And they're also.

[E]

They can also be gender neutral some. So I'm gonna say in on that.

[A]

Okay. What about.

[C]

I think saying the word mauve is not good.

[E]

I think she's right. Liz just nailed it. We need a rebranding.

[B]

I think it does need a rebranding.

[C]

It needs a new word.

[E]

Lavender shades. Shades of lavender.

[A]

I feel like lipstick. It's like a lipstick color. Yeah. It doesn't. It's. I don't know.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, you're kind of right. I can see mauve being a very popular, like, Kylie Jenner brand of lipstick.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

A mauve colored lipstick.

[A]

Nude. I don't know. Yeah. Okay. This is really big in Atlanta. White houses with black trim.

[D]

Okay. So I understand why they're here. Like, I do. And I think they're gonna age really well. But there are so many like I in my neighborhood alone, which in my neighborhood is mostly mid century modern houses or new builds where there would be be a mid century that was built that wasn't really done well.

[E]

It was more like thrown up. And they level it and they build a new build.

[D]

And all the new builds are the.

[E]

White farmhousey one with the black. The black windows. And the reason that I'm gonna say out is because they're. They become time stamped. I think, like a lot of the classic AR here in Buckhead who have been doing those for 5060 years do it in a way where it could be a hundred year old house.

[D]

But there's a very specific look between like 2017 and 2024 that might do you is kind of what you're talking about. Does that sound right? Yeah, I think, I think it, it.

[E]

Depends on the architecture but I think the majority of them look like they were built in the last seven, eight years.

[A]

Well, I ask you because you have a black house and so I wasn't sure like what your thoughts on that would be. That's.

[E]

I am a fan of black and white together. I've actually I did one all white house. I, I did a Scandinavian farmhouse for HTTP urban oasis in 2019 and this.

[D]

Was in the capital of Minnesota is Minneapolis. I don't know why that just, that just escaped me.

[E]

But it was an all this had to be by jury. So the HGTV had a weigh in. I was either going to do it a cod blood red. I had to do. I want to do colors that were legit to architecture in Scandinavia. So cod blood red. Red was how a lot of the fisher people would, they would paint their fishing cabins because that's all they had access to was the blood from the cod and it had enough pigment in it where it would, it would turn red. So I, I pitched that black.

[A]

Not very romantic at all.

[E]

What about that super popular Benjamin Moore.

[D]

Color called dead Salmon?

[E]

Have you heard about this? It's like the most popular blush out there.

[D]

And also when I used to work at hdtv, the connecting street that would bring you to the headquarters with called like Dead Horse Lane.

[E]

And I'm like y', all, this is some morbid directionals.

[D]

But my answer was I had done an all white Scandinavian farmhouse with, with black trim that really looked like it had been preserved for overtime.

[E]

So I think there's a trick to it. But right now I'm going to say out because there's just too much of it.

[A]

Yeah. What about scallops?

[D]

This is my last one and I.

[E]

Think that there's a playfulness with scallops and especially as a girl dad that they just fit everything. Whether it's a pillow or it's even architecture.

[D]

Sure there's a little bit of fun. It could even go masculine if you.

[E]

If you go with a darker color.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

I think that right now it's kind of all over the place. But I think, I think, I think it is here to stay. It's always been here. I just think it's made it more as a mainstream lately. But I think I say it's in any.

[A]

Any other. Those are really good.

[C]

No, I'm. I'm waiting to hear.

[A]

Yeah. What's your. What's your. What did you say? Your one that you hate?

[B]

Your number one haters.

[A]

Number one always. Yeah.

[B]

Now he's not gonna remember I told you, Karen.

[E]

Oh, my gosh. It's so specific. I'm a. Okay, so I might be aging myself.

[D]

But there was this huge thing, like, between, like, 2002 and, like, 2010, where people thought, like, one of the I.

[E]

So to answer you, my least favorite thing in interior design is sticks in a vase shoved in a corner. And what I mean by that is.

[D]

There was this very popular time, like.

[E]

I said, 2002 to 2010, where almost every millennial or Gen Xer who had bought their first house had this very specific. There was this major retailer had these sticks that you could go buy. They were like 5ft tall, and they would stick them into this very specific vase and stick them in corners of rooms. Similar. Similar to the trend of bamboo being everywhere.

[D]

Like, bamboo. Like bamboo. Like actual bamboo.

[E]

Lucky bamboo. Remember, like, the cut bamboo.

[A]

I feel like there was very Trading spaces.

[E]

It was that era. Yeah. It was, what, 2002-2010. Ish. And every time I go to somebody's house and they were hiring me, they'd have those damn sticks and that damn vase. And the vase was.

[D]

The vase came in three colors, like mauve, pink, or blue. And I would be like, they all have it to the point where it's like a cult. And then it vanished. Like, I don't know, like, after 2011 or so, it started to go away. And that's a very, very passionate response.

[E]

Because I encountered many sticks and a V shoved in a corner in my lifetime.

[A]

I feel like that turned into the 2010s. Fiddle leaf.

[E]

Oh, nailed it. Which now has been replaced with the olive tree, but the faux version, because the olive tree only thrives in Mediterranean environments. But now there's a new one that is an Indian version of the tree. Do you know what it's called?

[D]

It has this beautiful. This gigantic leaf, but it's perfectly leaf shaped like that, like symmetrical, versus a.

[E]

Fiddle leaf, which is kind of asymmetrical, and it has now become ficus. It is some type of ficus, but it is. It is.

[D]

I think the word Indian or India is in it. And it's beautiful. I used it once. They're not.

[E]

They're not.

[D]

Not. They're not the most affordable. They're gorgeous. But I think that the fiddle leaf.

[E]

Has now been replaced. Yeah, I, I, I, I, I have them in my house still. I still have they.

[D]

Actually.

[E]

I do like planting them outside as well. Fiddle leaf figs.

[D]

But they did get kind of out of control. Right.

[A]

Well, they were just in, like, every photo shoot. It was clearly like a, Like a. Oh, and we. Oh, we did it too. For sure. It was very much like that.

[B]

I still have them in my.

[D]

Yeah, right.

[C]

Yeah, I do, too.

[A]

Well. Yeah, I finally was able to. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Once you keep it alive. Now you're stuck with him.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I love that all four of us have experience with the fiddle because it, it was. I think it was one of those trends that it had a point.

[E]

Like, it's, it's a beautiful, It's a beautiful, like, sculptural plant that we all thought we could keep alive and found out quickly. We can't.

[D]

But some people, like, who've kept them alive, those things get huge. Like, I mean, the height.

[B]

They add so much height to a corner.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Like a.

[B]

Or you could. Maybe the stick face will come back too.

[A]

And they're the perfect green. They're a really good green shade.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, don't you think? Yeah, I agree.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

They had a lot of life.

[D]

I think that's why we all like them. What are our thoughts on. I have one last question. It's another very trendy thing.

[E]

What are your thoughts on the super.

[D]

Popularity of the Italian modernism thing that's been like, taken over Pinterest over the past, like, six or seven years? That very. Almost everything.

[E]

There's a lot of scallops.

[D]

There's a lot of, like, bald tops on chairs.

[E]

Like B, Like B, A, L, L, E, D. Like bald shapes. Like, everything's kind of like the rounded trend.

[A]

Oh, like it's kind of 80s.

[E]

Yes. But I think a lot of it was taken from Italian modernism, which usually.

[C]

Has a lot of sculptural bulbus.

[E]

Bulbous is the perfect word. What are your thoughts? Do you think it's.

[B]

How do you feel about bulbous?

[E]

I hate that word.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think this will be, like, it almost. There's this, like, 80s, like that Memphis movement. Like this, this will is like almost a node to it, but Italian may.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

It's going to. Definitely. The rounded furniture is 100% going to be time stamp stamped.

[D]

What a bummer. I agree with you.

[B]

Still love it right now.

[D]

But it's gonna look very.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In 30 years, you're gonna try to hand yours down to somebody and be like, thank you I know.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

There are a few designers who I.

[C]

Feel like that can pull it off.

[A]

Do it really well.

[C]

But like Nicola Harding.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Uses. Uses pieces like that. And she's a British designer, and everything is, like, super layered and feels very traditional. But then she'll throw in something very sculptural and minimal and. Yeah. Italian kind of bulbous shapes and weird geometric things that you just don't know how to make work otherwise. Unless it's in a loft and sitting there by itself. And it is a sculptural piece, but she's able to throw these things in there. And it works. It works because there's such a huge, heavy juxtaposition of these two styles of English country cottage plus modern.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

So it's. It's. I agree with you.

[C]

There's really hard to find folks that can pull it off.

[D]

There are folks, but we did our.

[E]

Own version of it in the Oxford house. There is. There is some 80s going on there, but there's not a lot of rounded furniture.

[D]

Except actually, the. The chairs are barrel chairs. But I'm with you. I think that when you take six pieces of furniture like that and you put them in an empty lot off, it looks complete.

[E]

Like those six pieces. The minimalism works. But then when you try to put into a room with kids and dogs.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Doesn't really play nicely with others.

[C]

It's definitely a varsity move. And don't try it at home.

[D]

No, I agree with you. I totally agree with you on all this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Professionals, you have to.

[A]

Brian Patrick, Glenn, thank you so much. This is a delight, as usual. I know.

[C]

This was really fun.

[D]

I cannot wait to see what this gets edited down into because we went on so many tangents.

[B]

Jokes on you. We don't edit.

[E]

Oh, great. Good night, everybody.

[D]

I'm putting you to sleep with all my information.

[E]

Well, thanks for having me.

[D]

Me. And thanks for playing so nicely all this years. It's been a very, very long, long relationship I've had with Bower Designs. And I think now that this new chapter has come where I've had this big part of my career that is now ending and on a very positive note, I think that it's going to be interesting for me to start doing whatever my next chapter is, especially here in Atlanta, and especially when it comes to product design, which I'm already doing now. But I want to keep things going with you all because I love the idea of using more and more, like updated, traditional and these houses that I'm doing. And I love the fact that you are all here and I'm here and it's all local. It just feels like. It's just feels like a great partnership.

[A]

Yeah, it's meant to be. Can you tell everyone where they can find you and follow you?

[D]

Yeah, you can find me on Instagram. And this is. This is controversial. So when. When my Instagram started, I could not get my handle to be my actual name because there was too many letters at the time. So my handle is at B. Patrick Flynn. The B stands for Brian, which is my first name. So when people come up to me in public and they only know me from Instagram, they come up and say, hi, Patrick, and I don't know who the hell they're talking about.

[E]

So the B is for Brian, which is my name, which could not fit into the whole thing. So if you type bPatrick Flynn on.

[D]

Any social media platforms, you'll find me. And just remember, if you meet me in real life to call me Brian.

[A]

Or Brian Patrick Flynn or all three days.

[E]

Yeah, the five syllables flow together nicely too.

[A]

All right, well, that's our show.

[D]

Bye.

[A]

And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our show blog howtodecorate.com podcast.

[B]

To send in a decorating dilemma. Email your questions to podcastallarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space.

[A]

And of course, be sure to follow us on social media alardesigns.

[C]

Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.

[A]

Until next time, happy decorating.