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How to Decorate
Ep. 446: Santa Fe Style & The Art of Layering with French & French Interiors
00:56:53
Ep. 446
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to how to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team. And I'm Taryn and I'm a product designer.
- [00:13]
B
I'm Liz. I head up the creative team.
- [00:15]
C
We're your hosts.
- [00:16]
A
Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks and tales from interior designers, stylists and other talents in the design world. Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode.
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B
We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email us@podcastallardesigns.net now on with the show.
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A
This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog, a service that delivers gently cooked, freshly made pet food straight to your door. Each balanced recipe is developed by board certified nutritionists and clinically proven to support healthy aging. The Farmer's Dog, guided by science, driven by love. New customer. Get 50% off your first box at the farmersdog.com Spotify plus you get free shipping. All right, today we are thrilled to welcome husband and wife design duo Heather and Matt French. Heather, the studio's creative director, brings an artist instinct for color, scale and storytelling. And Matt is director of construction and product development, bridging creative vision and technical execution, ensuring every project is not only beautiful, but built to last. Together, their Santa Fe based design firm, French and French Interiors, creates luxurious yet livable rooms for their clients across the U.S. heather and Mat, welcome to the show.
- [01:30]
D
Thanks for having us.
- [01:32]
A
I absolutely loved getting to dive into your portfolio because we have really not had many, many designers on the show who do projects in the Southwest. Like a few here and there, of course, but it was just really like, it transports you into this new world where the colors and the patterns and, and the landscape, it just all works together so beautifully. So I, I just really had, like, it was so fun to get to check out some of your client projects.
- [02:04]
C
Thank you so much. It's a, it's a really great and beautiful place to work.
- [02:10]
A
Yeah, why don't we start there? Why don't you tell us both? I know you're both originally from the south, so maybe give us a, a little, you know, primer on how you made it out to Santa Fe and how you started your design business about 15 years ago.
- [02:27]
D
How do we make it to Santa Fe? Well, we had fixed up a little house in southwest Florida where Heather's from. I'm from south Alabama, Fairhope, and we knew we wanted to go back out west and we wanted to find somewhere that both of our careers at the time would work. Heather was in natural medicine and I was in natural building and renewable energy. And you know, Santa Fe was really one of like maybe three places in the country where both of our careers made sense. And, and also that somewhere that we could find a piece of property and, and build our own house on. And. Yeah. And you know.
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C
Yeah. And then long story short, we got out here and decided we wanted to pivot careers and it was the best decision we could have made. And. Yeah. And, and went on from, from there. It was. Yeah.
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A
So was it that first house project in Florida that sort of ignited your love for design and then, you know, kind of blossomed there if you were in different careers at that point?
- [03:37]
C
Yeah, I think for me I was, I was really always naturally interested in it. And, and now I, I say to our, our on or like, pay attention to what you pay attention to because I, from a really young kid, I think Matt too, you know, my room was really important to me. Space was really important to me. My mom let me design my room as a, as a child. I did this like, black and white Disney themed room for myself. It was hilarious. Now looking back at it, it was cute. And yeah. And then I went to, went to Auburn University, which is where Matt and I met for college. And, and I remember looking at the interior design building across from my dorm and thinking like, oh, that's so interesting. But I didn't, I didn't even understand what the career was or that it was even an option. I think we, we kind of come from a different time where kids now kind of understand that there's this world out there beyond like doctor, lawyer, engineer, whatever. I, I, I guess I just didn't really grasp it, you know, and so it was a natural interest. And then after we got married, we remodeled that house in Florida. And Matt always likes to say that our, our shelter magazine budget was larger than our mortgage.
- [04:54]
D
Yeah, we couldn't afford furniture, but we were stacking things up on our magazines.
- [04:59]
A
Amazing. So, okay, in that first house, how, how does your dynamic, you know, in maybe like what you were bringing to the design project is that, was that maybe similar to what it is now or, or have you sort of evolved your different skill sets?
- [05:18]
C
I think we've evolved pretty significantly.
- [05:21]
D
Yeah. And you know, so growing up in Fairhope, my mom had a store where she would travel and import kind of home goods and collectibles, hot sauces. It was really sort of a, a really interesting import, like Emporium, I don't know. And she. We had a lot of interior design designers that would come and buy from her, and she would go, when she would travel for the shop, would buy for them. And so. And my, My grandmother was a painter. And, you know, I was, you know, in the South. I feel like it's. It's almost a more like, materially aesthetic culture, you know, like just the way, you know, we decorate our homes and people dress and. And, you know, I. I feel like beauty is perhaps maybe because it's a more traditional culture is important. So I feel like that sort of was like my baseline of really sort of appreciating beauty and things. And. And so, yeah, when we, when we were designing that house, I feel like we didn't really know all the layers you would build in. So, like, like, paint color was really important to us. I remember, you know, I don't know, a patchwork of samples trying to figure out paint color. And, you know, we had a lot of pushback from people about everything we did. You know, like, why would you want to tear out the drop ceiling in your. In your kitchen? And like, that fluorescent box lighting is so great for a workspace. And while, you know, it just seems like every. Everything we were doing, we had pushback of like, just aesthetic and all of our decisions we're making. And also that, like, why would you want to sell now? Because the home prices are going to only go up so much. And, you know, we stuck to our guns. We sold our house ourselves two weeks before the market failed in Florida, which was like, oh, six, like literally it.
- [07:23]
C
All that.08 bubble burst way before in Florida.
- [07:27]
D
Yeah, we made like. Right. And we made like 125% or so profit on the investment of the house. And it was.
- [07:35]
A
You were those people that everyone's like, I wish I was those people.
- [07:38]
C
Yeah, yeah.
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D
And it was like, just by chance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, we say it was like a. It was like a double bubble because we had a hurricane. It was.05 and we had a hurricane come through. Charlie came through Punta Gorda and. And the area we were. And like a hundred tornadoes came out of it and just like ripped apart neighborhoods and then left some untouched. And we were lucky enough to be one of the untouched ones. So, like, it was like an extra boost of value. But like, literally two weeks after we sold the place and packed up like the clampets and we're pulling out west, our house is worth what we paid for it, you know, and so it was just like a validation all the way to the end that. To follow our instincts and that we were onto something, you know?
- [08:26]
C
Yeah.
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A
What an incredible story. Wow. That's crazy.
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C
Yeah.
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A
No wonder you. You kept at it. You clearly had a knack for it. Well, I wanted to talk about Santa Fe, and, Liz, please jump in here at any point, because, like I mentioned before, it's such a, you know, specific landscape and locale, and I think so many people probably have a vision of what the American Southwest looks like and, you know, the colors that are there and the. The motifs and on the architecture. And so I'm. I'm curious how that has all influenced your design and, you know, how. How you've worked with it, how you've maybe, like, worked against it to try to meld the different things that you like, into your. Into your spaces.
- [09:16]
C
Yeah, I think it. It took me a little while to embrace the, like, traditional aesthetic of. Of Santa Fe, and, you know, so I went and worked with a firm before. Before we opened up our own for a few years, and they had. They had a little bit of, like, an east coast aesthetic. And I. When I left that firm, I wanted to really make sure that what we were doing was very different and more colorful. And, you know, I wanted to stand apart from what was happening here in Santa Fe. And so it took me a little while to kind of wrap my head around it. And then we did a show house that. It was an incredible house, the Applegate estate, which we actually. This. This was in 2015, I want to say, and we just redid that house for a new client that purchased it. And it was just an Architectural Digest, like, two weeks ago or something like that.
- [10:19]
A
Incredible.
- [10:21]
C
Yeah, it was. It's great. It was fun to get to go back to it, because that. That. So we did one room for a show house there, and it just has this very storied. The house has this very storied presence about it where Frank Applegate, who's, like, the father of folk art here in Santa Fe and hung out with these really amazing artists, including Georgia o' Keeffe and Ansel Adams, photographed the house. And those photographs are currently in the Smithsonian. And it just has this amazing presence about it. And so when you're in it, you really want to honor that. And so Matt and I really pushed to kind of figure out, how do we. How do we embrace this, you know, like, triple adobe wall? Like, very. You know, like, the walls are like, pottery. It's very beautiful. How do we embrace this aesthetic? But also Kind of keep it. Keep it our own. And. And that was the first time that we really, really pushed hard with multiple colors. Like, before, we. We were colorful, but we weren't using a lot of color. And. And we were still figuring out how to layer it and layer pattern. And so that. That room and that. That 2015 show house for. For us was like pinks and greens and. And lots of woods and different, you know, case goods that had different patterning on it. And it was just very interesting. And so I think. I think it. And we use these Navajos from the 1930s that had that. That type of patterning on it, and it really kind of pushed us to bring in that Santa Fe aesthetic into this very layered, kind of Back east, kind of Southern meets English look that we have.
- [12:15]
D
I don't know, like to speak widely, though, on, you know, the west, like, say, the west versus the Southwest, and just the regionality of design. I feel like, you know, modernism and architecture kind of have lent itself to come into sort of the modern Santa Fe style because of the angularity. And, you know, there wasn't a lot of furniture originally in, like, Spanish colonial times. They would just have, like, a chest and maybe, like, you know, one chair in the whole house, you know. But there's, you know, there's something about the landscape here that draws in people that, you know, are looking for, like, a wide horizon, you know, whether it be personally spiritually, you know, to like, expand, you know, their artistic vision or, you know, like cowboys here. I mean, if you sit down next to a belly up next to, you know, a salty old cowboy here, you might find that he was like, the dean of classicism at Yale or something. You know what I mean? There's just this unexpected cast of people here that come here for, like, sort of an expansion of themselves, you know, and. And you can feel that, you know, and. And. And design wise, you know, in the 80s and 90s, you know, kind of like when America, like the salsa craze or, you know, like, America sort of got, you know, the market craze of all that was kitsch about the Southwest, you know, which I full circle love now. You know what I mean? But I feel like we have this comfort with it now, with retrospect of sort of, like, been through this, like, absorption of our experience here and what all that means. But, yeah, we, you know, it's easy as designers here to sort of placate to an expectation of, like, what is Southwest, you know, and we wanted, you know, we were so inspired by sort of the history of design and designers and, you know, thinking about the whole world of design and interiors and went into. To, like, have a practice and a clientele that was outside of Santa Fe as well as here, because there's really only so much marketplace to be had. And, like, one of the things we learned, we love show houses, and we recommend to everybody to do. Take every opportunity to do a show house because it gives you a chance to be with other designers and see how everyone interprets what they do without a client, you know, and get to know themselves. But. But we realized, like, how many great designers there were here for such a small town and really wanted to. To one day have a practice that was outside of. Of just Santa Fe. So I felt like there was some strategy there, whether we knew it or not.
- [15:29]
C
Yeah.
- [15:30]
D
Developing our. Our look.
- [15:32]
C
Yeah, there was for sure.
- [15:33]
D
Yeah. I feel like I just went on for a really long time there.
- [15:36]
A
I'm sorry.
- [15:37]
C
No, not at all.
- [15:39]
B
Your work is such a great combination of, I think, your Southern roots and that traditionalism that happens in interiors definitely here in the Southeast and that mix of the traditional that you're finding in the Southwest. And I think there's also just this beautiful. Looking at the pictures from the Applegate estate piece that you did that's on your website, there's also, and maybe this is just, you know, me leaning into your name a little bit, A little French provincialism happening as well. I mean, that kind of like, dustiness and worn French feeling fabrics that are happening in there that are. That still feel at home in, you know, a worn, well worn home like the. Like the Applegate estate.
- [16:36]
C
Yeah, I think there's a groundedness to. To Santa Fe, and I think that no matter where we're working in the country, that's kind of a. Through thread of our work. And I think, yeah, there's something. I think because we do use a lot of color and pattern, we have to be really thoughtful with how. How we layer things so it doesn't feel like Clown Town or, you know, super chaotic, you know, and so really making sure that the way that we layer those colors and. And that the scaling of pattern is appropriately placed and. And is really important, I think, especially in a house like the Applegate estate, where, um, you know, the architecture is so soulful and storied that, you know, you couldn't just come in and. And do, you know, loud murals on the wall and, you know, like, if you were gonna do something like that, it would need to be more muted and a bit more Grounded and, you know, so, yeah, I think. I think Santa Fe really just brings this groundedness to our work, for sure.
- [17:48]
B
Yeah, there's definitely a sense of place. Um, um, which is fantastic. And I would never say clown town at all about your work.
- [17:59]
A
The.
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B
Your use of color is very sophisticated.
- [18:02]
D
Thank you.
- [18:03]
C
There's been moments. There's been moments. Everybody's got a self grat, so sometimes.
- [18:08]
A
It'S hard to hold yourself back. Color's just so fun. Well, yeah, there's. It's so funny. Like, if someone had said to me, you know, southwest mixed with English cottage, I would be like, there's no world in which those two go together. But. And then I saw your work and it just, it. They, gosh, they compliment each other so well. And I know that's really because of your skill in, in blending them, but maybe start with, like, what, you know, what about each of those things? Because I think color, obviously is a big tool for you because those sepia tones of Santa Fe, you know, really thread through your work.
- [18:50]
C
Well, I have to say, it took us a long time to get clients to listen to us. And the moment for us was a project that was in House Beautiful. I forget what it was called anyway.
- [19:05]
A
I can't remember.
- [19:06]
C
And it made it in. The client was so happy. And Cindy was her name. She was amazing.
- [19:14]
A
And.
- [19:16]
E
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast. Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move. Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Customer availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [19:46]
C
You know what really, how I ended up communicating that to. To how I end up communicating that to people is that the desert is a really harsh place. At least here in Santa Fe, it's a really harsh place. And I think you want your house to be. You want your house to feel cozy and comfortable and a bit of a respite from. From, you know, the wind and the dust and, you know, it's so expansive and it can feel a little overwhelming and it's beautiful. But want. You don't want that necessarily in your home. At least I don't. And so it took a while. I would lay out all of these florals for clients and we'd present it to them and there'd be some geometrics that were in there. And every client for years would say, I want more geometric, I don't want floral. Like, ugh, okay. And so, and it's really those florals that soften everything. And that was kind of the pivot and the push of being able to show a client and in show houses and then with the, with these, you know, houses that we've done that it works. And it really is important to, to be able to layer like both the geometric and harsher patterns with the, with florals and, and that softness, you know?
- [21:05]
D
Yeah. Or even wallpaper. I remember sort of before, but you know, because I, I would say like what, 2018 or so, I would say maybe pushed by some British designers is botanicals and florals and wallpaper was all of a sudden back, you know, And I feel like that never stopped in the south, perhaps so much. But like it was almost like an apostate. I mean, we, like. I remember people being appalled by us using wallpaper and layering pattern. I feel that we were working out how, because we loved all of that and we were figuring out how to make all that work. That by the time it started to hit and designers were sort of getting curious because there was the era of Hygei. Everything was like hygee or hygiene or whatever and gray and pale and tone on. To light sort of tone on tone and. Or glam. Right. And we were so outside of that that people thought we were crazy. You're never going to have clients, you know, and I feel like, you know, we also have tried to have like, I don't want to say like an old fashioned or traditional career arc, you know, and when everyone was saying that, you know, Instagram was going to kill print and all these things and like, why do people need print magazines when there's this thing called Pinterest, you know, we were like leaning as hard as we could. It was like, how do we get in print? Like, if it is going to be, if it is going to go away, how do we get in print before it's gone? You know, and we didn't want to like hire, you know, a publicist early on or someone that was going to like, all right, you got to go to every event, you got to be in everyone's face and just sort of like push ourselves real hard out there. We were just sort of wanting to like build a clientele and build a business and just like a good interiors business first. I mean, and then, and then when HGTV had the, the big. The Fixer upper show, right they were looking for, like, we want the next husband and wife like. Like now, like, you know, what we could do with you guys. You know, you're just this, like, whatever you are, and we're gonna make you something else or whatever. And, like, I'm so thankful that, like, none of that worked out. And it took us enough time to realize that we didn't. We didn't want to go that route or whatever, that we wanted to keep developing what we were and figure out a way to. To make our vision, you know, create a clientele. And print has really been, you know, the recognition of national print has really brought clients to us that are coming to us to have, you know, our interpretation and vision of what they want for their homes, you know?
- [24:12]
C
Yeah, I think. I think we're kind of like traditionalists through and through and, you know, with a bit of a twist. And I think when people were saying to us, you know, you're crazy. Don't do that. I think we were really confident in the fact that when you. When you put something. When you put something out into the world, you're going to get clients and people back that really relate to you. And I think that that really has been our career arch for us is that we have clients that come in and really trust us because they want what we want. And we really think similarly. There's a. There's a. Like a calmness to our clients and a comfort that they usually come in with because they. They get it, you know. And so I think when you're really kind of true to yourself and true to your aesthetic, that it makes those client relationships easier and. And allows you to, you know, get in things like print and, you know.
- [25:13]
A
Yeah, well, it's. You mentioned, Matt, that the. I guess the draw of Santa Pei is sort of like this expansion of your, you know, creativity or your mind or your spirituality or whatever. And I wonder if that does make your clients more open to creative choices. Right. Like, they. Maybe they have more of a. Acceptance of that, because that's kind of what Santa Fe. What the draw of it is. Maybe. Maybe there's something there.
- [25:45]
D
Yeah, there definitely is. I mean, you know, just moving out, you know, somewhere where you're not from is an act of courage, you know, and creativity is an act of courage. I feel like in a lot of ways, you're, you know, you're tapping into, whether it be like a consciousness field or something that is, like, transcendental and bigger than you, but it takes, like, courage to do that. And sometimes that means, like, Leaving your hometown or your home region, and there is that feeling of adventure. I feel like people come here with, you know, and, you know, the courage of creativity is like, you know, it's an adventure. And I feel like a lot of our clients come in just excited to come in and see, like, you see part of our library back out here and, you know, like, being so far away from, you know, big multi line showrooms and all of that. You know, for our clients to come in here and see, you know, 10,000 fabrics and all these choices and to know that, like, they're not going to have the, like, decision exhaustion of, you know, you know, figuring all that out, you know, that we. We take all of this and narrow it down to something that, you know, resonates with them, I think it's a relief, you know, but it's still like they come in here with like a sense of adventure, you know, I definitely think there is something to that for sure.
- [27:07]
A
I want to get back to color a little bit more because I do just love the colors you choose. And I imagine they do work so well with that desert sort of landscape. And is that something that has been with you from the beginning? Is that something that's sort of evolved more? And also maybe you could speak a little bit to how you're building your color palettes, because they're very layered. You know, you mentioned earlier kind of doing less. Less color per room. Is that what you were saying? Like, maybe one color? And now there's like, yes, for.
- [27:46]
C
For us. I always start with. I call it a keystone fabric. So people start from all sorts of places, you know, whether it's a, you know, painting or a rug or, you know, whatever. I generally start with a fabric and I'll find some. Some fabric that I think will. That the client will really resonate with. And it has a lot of different color in it. I've got all these color, all these fabrics right next to it. I was going to pull one, but. And so I. That I think is really the jumping off point from, for me creatively. But before that, we have really in depth conversations with our clients. So we do a con, like a concept phase where it's a. It's a much more educated presentation than what you would get on Pinterest. So we're really showing our clients all of these different ways that we can go and different options and really hearing what they have to say. And so we get to know them really well in that process, you know, and that's the time for us where they'll say things like, oh, I hate orange. That reminds me of whatever as a kid. I can't. I can't do that. No orange. Or, you know, whatever. And so by the time we're going into our design development phase, we're really. We're really kind of niched into what the client is wanting to see and how. And how we're interpreting that for them. And so when we find that. That keystone fabric with all of the colors that is really defining what those tones and how that house is going to read, you know, if that makes sense. And then from there, we're layering in. I'll play with pattern from there. And so we'll have like a large scale, small scale, medium scale, something like that to make sure that it. It reads really well. And, yeah, that's. That's kind of how I kind of how I do it.
- [29:46]
D
You know, talking about fabrics, this kind of, I feel like, is a point to make, is that we really love the industry of design, and all of us do. Right. And to your average person would have no idea how many unbelievable fabrics there are in the whole industry at large. And so many of them are a piece of art, an incredible piece of art in themselves. And so to use the library. I love her technique of doing that. To flush a color palette out of is amazing. And that's something. You know, we're looking at design schools for adults, daughter right now, and I'm sort of meeting more young people that are studying design or young designers that are, you know, wondering how, okay, I got this education and how do I get started? And it made me really realize, like, part of our history and how we got to where we are was, like, just a love of the industry itself. And so wanting to know everything we can find out about all the heroes of design, that if you ask a lot of these kids coming out of school and, you know, and in our hiring process have really found, like, who are your inspirations of designers? And they can't think of anybody. They might say Kelly Wearstler or something. And I would say that, like, you know, not to take anything away from, like, going to school. One of the great things about this industry is that it's all there. It's in the books, it's in the magazines, and you can, like, just through the materials of this business, get such an education and how people put it all together and, you know, without really going through sort of the history of design and figuring out, you know, like, who are all these greats and how did they do it then? You really would be figuring it out on your own, you know what I mean? And I think that that's like what stops a lot of people from being successful in this business, is that they're starting from scratch instead of like, you know, flipping through like a Mario bottle or David Hick or like any of these people that have like just stacks of books and like, really finding out what it is they love about it and why it works and why it doesn't work is like the. The start, you know what I mean? It should be like the start of interior design schools, but it's really not, you know, it's really not, you know, having like a library where they go through all the great stacks of all the greatest designs in history. They don't get that in school. You know what I mean? That's why a lot of people can be successful in this business without an education, is because, you know, you develop your eye and then all the rest of it is just being a good business person, you know, and just like, just thinking about the fabrics and seeing our stack of fabrics here. I mean, it's just. Fabrics are the great last, sir. Not last, but example of like a. To the trade, you know, Beautiful example of what this industry has produced.
- [32:53]
A
Yeah. Well, it is interesting, you know, so many fabrics now. I think especially with digital printing, they can do smaller batches and they're. And so it sort of spawned this world where you could create a fabric line on your own and, you know, so. So that creates all of these new artists, right? Because they can. It's. It's a little bit easier to create the fabrics and. And then they can find people like you who are. Who are looking for really, like, small batch, artisan made type of things. So I think that's been really so interesting.
- [33:32]
C
And, you know, there's all sorts of options, which is great. We do a lot of custom colorways, for sure.
- [33:37]
A
Yeah, Yeah.
- [33:38]
B
I also love the idea of like an art school just having a class that's just interior design books 101.
- [33:46]
A
Right.
- [33:47]
B
Throw some cushions on the floor and just dig in. I'm signing up for that right now.
- [33:54]
A
What are some of your favorite design books? Just if you had to pick like three each of you, that you'd put on that curriculum.
- [34:02]
C
Yeah, Well, I love Sister Parish. Sister Parish in general is kind of like my. One of my faves. And then Catherine island is a huge inspiration, like current inspiration. I love the way she layers things and uses color.
- [34:16]
B
She's.
- [34:16]
C
I think she's insanely talented. I love Mario Botta.
- [34:22]
D
Gosh, there are so many great. You know, I feel like on that list should be some sort of, like, let me, like, Halt. Boheme was a great one, bringing together, like, pattern and all the Bunny Williams books. Bunny Melon, the Bunnies, the.
- [34:45]
C
I'm forgetting him. This name of another one I was really inspired by. Oh, gosh. Furlough Gatewood.
- [34:52]
D
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [34:54]
C
That was an incredible book. And then I love Anna Spiro. Her. Her books are great. And then, you know, and now we have friends all writing them, which is.
- [35:04]
A
Yeah.
- [35:05]
C
Seeing their perspectives is so fun. Stephanie Sabe's new book. Yeah, it is.
- [35:09]
D
Yeah. I was just flipping Wong's landscape book this morning. If you guys seen that. It's so good.
- [35:14]
A
It's so funny how. Yeah, you're right. Like, the print industry, especially shelter magazines, has struggled, you know, in the last 10 years and changed a lot. But design books, it seems to me, like, have never been more, you know, prolific, like.
- [35:36]
C
Yes.
- [35:36]
B
And exciting.
- [35:37]
A
I mean, it's. It's fabulous because, you know, so many people get to create this sort of cohesive unit of their work, but I don't know, I guess I don't really have a frame of reference of, like, how many design books used to come out, but it just seems like a lot.
- [35:51]
C
But I think it's an interesting point, and I was thinking about it at the. The other day, because I'm starting to. To write one myself right now. And, you know, I think. I think that, you know, like, the start of Instagram and social media kind of gave rise to. To a bunch of us designers kind of at the same time, and now we're all at a certain point where we're, you know, starting to think in that direction more, and I. I think that's a big part of it, you know, like, we. We had this. A lot of us had this opportunity that we could. That we grabbed and were able to come up at the. At the same time. And I think. I think that's a big part of why we're seeing so many books.
- [36:33]
D
Yeah. And. And then also there's so many great design events, you know, now, like, there's a design week everywhere. Great. And, like, I just got. Went to Birmingham. Antiques in the Gardens, you know.
- [36:44]
A
Yeah.
- [36:45]
D
And the people that are on these panels are, like, all kind of on. A lot of them are on book tours. But there's just so much opportunity, too, to just go and listen to these great panels of people that are signing books afterwards and. Yeah. Have y' all ever been to that. To the Birmingham show there.
- [37:04]
A
I've never been to Antiques in the Gardens, but I've always wanted to go.
- [37:08]
D
It was fun.
- [37:09]
A
Birmingham has an incredible design community.
- [37:12]
B
It does.
- [37:12]
A
You know, it's another one of those sort of not small towns, but like, relative to the design, like to that really incredible design community. It's like, huh. Interesting. You know, maybe like Santa Fe or.
- [37:26]
C
Right. Yeah, no, there's greats there, for sure.
- [37:28]
A
Yeah.
- [37:29]
D
Yeah. I mean, the surrounding area and the. The garden, you know, there's such a. Like a rich history there of like architecture and gardens and. And everything. And I guess like being, you know, sort of a parochial Alabama boy and an Auburn person that I looked at Birmingham as it's like, you know, up on the hill, sort of superior place. That same. I don't know. But.
- [37:52]
A
Yeah. Well, I, I loved seeing your. Your portfolio because I think one of our very first design dilemmas. We. We don't have a design dilemma today because we're low. Which. Listeners, please send your questions in. But one of our very first ones, I want to say was from. I don't know if it was Santa Fe, it could have been Arizona. But it was someone who wrote in and said that they had sort of this new build, but like Southwest home and. But like loved English cottage interiors and so she couldn't figure out how to blend them. And I remember. I can't even remember what advice we gave, but I was like, this is the. This is the designer whose book she needs. This is her. This is the work that. That she needed to see to be able to like, figure out, you know, what. How that could even possibly come to fruition. But anyway, so it was just funny because I was like, I vividly remember that. That design dilemma because we're like, that's a. That's a challenge. That's a hard one.
- [38:52]
C
It's a hard crossover. It was. It. Yeah, it's. And I think especially when you haven't seen it done before, you know, it's, you know, you guys going for a long time and, you know, it's challenging to think about something in a new way. And yeah, that. I think that that was the big push for us was to really think about something in a new way.
- [39:16]
A
I love what you said about, though, the. The landscape being so harsh and so you're, you know, your interior needs to maybe be like a little bit of a respite from that. I always think about that in. In terms of the beach where, you know, you know, when you've been out in the beach and it's like, it's hot and it's bright and you're just like, I want to go to like a dark room and like kind of. And, and how like wonderfully peaceful that is. So it kind of has that. But your rooms aren't dark though, so I'm curious. Like they. But they do feel, I guess, layered and, and cozy, some of them.
- [39:51]
C
Yeah, we like, in our house, we have a small. Matt really likes small spaces. I. I kind of tend to like bigger spaces.
- [40:01]
D
I grew up living on a boat with my mom for a couple years and then we, you know, lived in like cottages, you know, like, you know, a proper like 1100 square foot cottage. And like. Yeah, I do find that comfort in like a smaller space.
- [40:13]
C
Yeah, we kind of differ in, in that way a bit. And so we, we have. We were really conscious when we built, when we did our house, now our current house, that we had rooms that felt really cozy, like you're saying. And like we have one, we call it the blue room. It's just like a really dark blue room with wood paneling and wallpaper on the ceilings. It's. And he's right. It's the room that we all hang out in the time we're always there.
- [40:39]
D
Yeah. It's funny when I think about that room. This is completely irrelevant and a departure from the conversation. Sorry. But let's do it. I. We had painted. So it has this like, yellow, has this like, paneling. We had this other room that was yellow and we accidentally painted too much yellow. But I had to, I had to install it and get it on the wall still like this blue and yellow. It was like exactly like the taking care of business room in Graceland.
- [41:07]
C
People walked in, they're like, what? Yeah, sorry, we just had to spray pre spray this and it's gonna change.
- [41:14]
D
And I like, it took me a while to get to it and like, she kept trying to up that to like the top of my list. Yeah. And I was like, you know, come.
- [41:22]
A
On, Elvis, let's talk about your house. Because your house is fabulous. I like just every single space is so. Just delightful and layered and interesting. And I did see a little Ballard out there on your porch.
- [41:39]
C
Yes.
- [41:42]
B
It definitely is. Is a designer lab.
- [41:45]
C
I feel like. Yeah, it is. It is for sure. Yeah. It's the first house that we've ever one, been able to afford what we do because, you know, it's, it's expensive and two, we're able to be that. That creative, you know, so it's Kind of like our little wonderland. It's great. And you know, we have a 16 year old daughter that, you know, we can, we can be as playful and fun as we want right now. It's great.
- [42:09]
A
Yeah. So what was the, what was sort of your. Some of your initial jumping off points in the house, things that you knew early on that you were going to incorporate and then built around?
- [42:23]
C
We. Well, it's probably not the most exciting answer, but, but I think it was, it was really comfort. We wanted, we wanted really comfortable furniture. And I think like our floor planning was, was really important to, to us and how we were going to use the house. And so we were moving in from the country, so we were like 45 minutes south of town for almost 20 years and then moving in and, and we knew that our life was going to really kind of switch to much more, you know, entertaining and into a different, kind of a different phase in our life with our daughter in high school and whatnot. And so I think that that really was the jumping off point for us is what, like how we were going to live in the house and what we wanted to portray. And then I think from there, you know, we're exposed to so much as designers. I mean, you know, like Matt was saying earlier, you know, there's millions and millions of fabrics and we see a lot of them, you know, and.
- [43:33]
A
I think.
- [43:35]
C
We were able to go through and just kind of choose what we wanted and what we liked at the time and what felt fun and vibrant and knowing we can change it when we want to. And it, you know, it wasn't as, you know, like, those things are a little bit easier for us to do than it is for a client. So it didn't feel, it didn't feel like this huge decision that we were having to make. You know, it just felt like where we were at at the time, which I think is what pulled the house together enough. You know, funny enough.
- [44:03]
A
I feel like so many designers say, like, I love your perspective of we could, we could change it at any point because you're in that business. But I think we all, we often hear that because there are so many choices, it's paralyzing because then you have to pick. And it's, you know, more challenging for your own space because you can go anywhere.
- [44:23]
D
It is harder to design for yourself.
- [44:25]
C
I think it is harder to design for yourself. And I did have to step back and kind of, you know, and also we were on a timeline. So Matt remodeled this house in four months, five months. I mean, yeah, the first part.
- [44:39]
D
Yeah, the first part was about five and then we did another one and you know, we knew that we had an opportunity for that article to, to happen. That was in House Beautiful. And we booked for the last part, we booked Ro Rufino like six months ahead of time to set that, that deadline.
- [45:00]
C
Yeah, we're like this, like we were photographing Robert's flying and he's a incredible stylist and, and you know, came in and styled for that shoot and you know, like, we had to hit it.
- [45:11]
D
When we had it. Yeah. So like when we broke ground in July, knowing we had to shoot September 20, it was like, you know, I go in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. I mean, I went to full. Yeah.
- [45:26]
C
My friends are wearing doors up as they were walking in the house.
- [45:30]
D
Our friends get worried about me because, like, we will if it takes it. We'll do like, you know, 18 hour days. My knuckles will be dragging the floor at the end. And then just like, you know, whatever it takes. Especially, I mean, we booked a great photographer, Jenna and Robert, so far in advance that it was like, it was the, the like, hardest deadline we've probably had.
- [45:54]
C
Yeah.
- [45:54]
D
Whereas like, you know, of course, like everything matters for, you know, clients and you have time debt, you know, time set and everything. But like, yeah, that was, that was quite a push for sure.
- [46:06]
C
But I do, I, I think, yeah, we were, you know, there was a timeline, we had to meet it there. You know, like there, there were all sorts of different factors and yeah, when.
- [46:15]
D
We were styling, there was like wet paint.
- [46:19]
C
Yeah.
- [46:20]
A
I guess if you have a deadline, then maybe you, you're forced to make those decisions. So you couldn't, you didn't have time for paralysis. I suppose.
- [46:28]
C
Yeah. I was like, this is great.
- [46:30]
A
It works how you, you mentioned your daughter is interested in, you mentioned she's interested in design a little bit. How, how does she, you know, how. What kind of input does she give you on the house and choices?
- [46:48]
C
She's pretty, she's pretty involved, which is great.
- [46:53]
D
She has opinions.
- [46:54]
C
Yeah, she has opinions.
- [46:55]
A
She loves it.
- [46:56]
C
She's really passionate about it, which is fun and exciting to see. And you know, Annette, now I think I sometimes I'm like, oh, maybe my style is getting a little dated. She's like, well, haven't you seen this designer or that designer, you know, whatever. I'm like, no, I haven't actually. And yeah, I mean she's, she's got a great eye and I think, you know, like her room, she came to us and Said she wanted it to feel like a sunset or a sunrise, and she really wanted that. Like, her room is this really beautiful peach. I forget the actual color of it, but it's really pretty. And then we. We had somebody come in and do these hand painted murals at the top of her wall, like a border. And she wanted florals, and she wanted it to feel really, you know, cozy and comfortable. And so we. She put together her own, like, schematic design, and then I helped her pull together the rest of it, and then she pulled fabrics that she wanted, that she wanted for like a. Like this one special chair that she has. And, you know, so it was like a really nice collaborative thing that we did together and. But she had final approval of everything in her room.
- [48:14]
D
Yeah.
- [48:17]
A
It'S such a pretty room, and it does look like a sunset. Yellows and peaches.
- [48:22]
C
Yeah.
- [48:23]
B
Those yellow curtains paired with the peach walls is just really fantastic.
- [48:27]
A
There is something about yellow curtains, A bright yellow curtain. I don't know what it is, but, like, they're just magical.
- [48:36]
C
Thank you. Yeah, we love.
- [48:37]
B
I love that.
- [48:38]
C
I love how that turned out.
- [48:42]
A
Well, what. You know, you mentioned loving fabrics and. And having those as sort of the. The keystone of your design. So I'm curious what sort of fabrics you're. You're finding yourself drawn to now. You know, anything that, like where you see things moving.
- [48:58]
C
Yeah, I love Michael Smith's fabrics, and I like. I tend to really like designers fabrics quite a bit and. Or, you know, like, collections that are being done with pure Frey or Schumacher or really something like that. And I think the reason being is that designers will. I'm always on the lookout for a really unique color perspective and how that's combined and what. And. And how those tones are maybe not. Not quite as easily found, you know, and so that, for me, is what I'm really attracted to. I think Michael Smith does a really good job of that. And. Yeah, I. There's so many.
- [49:44]
D
I was gonna say, like, there's so many. There's so many.
- [49:48]
C
Yeah. I mean, I literally have thousands next to me right now, actually, because I'm. I'm getting this. This fabric wall redone. But.
- [49:55]
D
Yeah, and I feel like one of the great things about, like, florals and botanicals, you know, in general, of course, like, not to no shade on stripes and all the other patterns, but, like, I feel that when you're inspired by nature and, like, how to interpret it different, there's always, you know, there's just so much innovation that could be made. I mean, kind of there's nothing new under the sun. Like, looking back, like, there was this. There was a antiques dealer that had all these, like, Parisian samples from, you know, a span of like 50 years, this collection. And it was just. It was incredible to see, like, how many. How much there's been. That's never been seen even, or, like, to rediscover. And I mean. I mean, there's new companies popping up, like. Like, tier to your comment earlier all the time, where, you know, between furnishings and papers and patterns and everything for us, like, we have to travel and go see it all just to try to keep up with what's all new and like, you know, what, you know, 200 million square feet of high Point or wherever to see it all. I mean, it's really exciting. I feel like maybe even during, like, sort of the housing boom of the last few years has just really, like, expanded what's out there by so much.
- [51:26]
A
Well, you know, your point about botanicals, like, there is such a wide range of botanicals. There can be really delicate and lacy florals, really feminine stuff. But then there's also, like, really almost masculine, like, edgier, you know, where they're like more black block print or darker colors or sort of like, you know, a woodland. Yeah, like, they can kind of just. Florals can go in a much more. You know, they're not always, like, chintz.
- [51:58]
C
Yeah, exactly. We. We have this fishing cabin that we're doing right now for a client from Texas. And, you know, the husband was like, I don't. I'm not, you know, crazy about florals. I don't know how I feel about it. And I was like, don't worry. We'll go more w. Woodland that comes.
- [52:14]
D
From, like, I always say, like, you know, I love camo and, like, mossy oak and all that real tree and, like. And like, I'm serious, but joking. But, like, it really. It's like. It's a wildland textile print. I mean, if you like, out all the culture, everything cultural about camo, like. Yeah, I don't know. I love all the different types of camo.
- [52:37]
C
More camo. That's not necessarily the kind of woodland I'm talking. Sure, I know, but, like, going to.
- [52:44]
A
Develop a floral camo.
- [52:46]
D
Yeah, some, like. Some, like, mossy oak recliners.
- [52:50]
C
Right.
- [52:53]
A
Actually, now that I'm looking at your house again, I see, like, a good bit of Ballard. Like, is that a rug? One of our rugs and a mirror and stuff. Nice.
- [53:01]
C
Yeah, we. We. We love Ballard.
- [53:03]
A
Well, we love you, too. It's it was, again, it was just so fun to see your portfolio. I encourage everyone to go follow y' all and take a look at your site. And I. I guess we're gonna be looking for your book in, I don't know, 16 months, 20, 27. Okay.
- [53:20]
B
Okay, great.
- [53:21]
A
Well, you give us a call back, we'll have you back on the show to talk about it. Congrats, by the way. I don't even wanna know how, like, scary that project, that process is from the beginning, you know? Like, how do you get your head around writing a book?
- [53:39]
C
I know. That's where I'm at right now.
- [53:41]
A
Yeah. Well, can you tell everyone where they can find you, follow you, and see your work?
- [53:47]
C
Yeah, absolutely. Our website is www.FrenchAndFrenchInteriors.com and our Instagram handle is @French and French Interiors.com. nope, just kidding. French and French interiors. But I think it's the same on. I'm pretty sure it's the same on Facebook, too. Yeah. And what is it on TikTok? I don't even remember.
- [54:12]
D
It's probably the same.
- [54:12]
C
I think it's probably the same.
- [54:14]
A
And you said y' all just had a project in Architectural Digest so people can.
- [54:20]
C
In the.
- [54:21]
A
Wait, what are we in October issue?
- [54:24]
C
No, it was online. It was just online.
- [54:26]
A
Oh, online.
- [54:26]
C
Okay.
- [54:27]
A
Okay. So people can go check that out. We can link to it in the show notes.
- [54:30]
C
Yeah.
- [54:33]
D
And, Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
- [54:49]
C
Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.
- [54:52]
D
Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty.
- [54:56]
C
Liberty.
- [54:56]
D
Liberty Savings Fairy, underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. Yeah.
- [55:02]
A
All right. Well, thank you. That was such a delight.
- [55:05]
C
Thank you guys so much. You guys are amazing.
- [55:07]
A
All right, that's our show. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog howtodecorate.com podcast to send in a decorating dilemma. Email your questions to podcastallarddesigns.net so we.
- [55:20]
C
Can help you with your space.
- [55:21]
A
And of course, be sure to find. Follow us on social media. Ballardesigns.
- [55:25]
B
Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.
- [55:32]
A
Until next time, Happy decorating.