C (1:57)

Thank you.

A (1:57)

You grew up in Boston, so I did want to start there because we were talking a little bit before starting, but, you know, New England, it's very rooted in classicism, beautiful architecture. And so maybe you could just start by, like, how that informed your design perspective and how maybe you got into the world of interior design.

C (2:19)

I am originally from Boston. I am very much an east coast girl living in a Pacific Northwest world, and I think that for me, growing up around neighborhoods of heritage houses that range from, you know, 1600 all the way up through, you know, that hallmark of Pre World War II, which is sort of where I see some of the stopping point of some of the true, deep craftsman rooted authenticity of older homes that we work in. And I think that Boston gave me a very strong sense of place and time being relevant to design and being relevant to the work that we do. And, you know, I just have always loved things that have patina that are handmade, that are crafted with purpose and thoughtfulness. I undergraduate have an art history background. I worked for Sotheby's in my twenties, in college, and did a lot of auction work in Boston. And so I've always cared deeply about antiques and one of a kind pieces. And, you know, we live in an age of immediacy. We live in an age where there can be a bit of a global aesthetic that starts to all run together. And we talk a lot in the office about the fact that you may think you're creating this amazing, unexpected space, and if you lean too far into Pinterest two years later, you're now publishing work that everybody else is doing the same work because they saw that same sync on the algorithm or they seen that same color or that same fabric. And so for me, growing up in Boston, and for me, living and working in heritage homes and older neighborhoods means taking the house and the cues from the house and the cues from the outside and the cues from the neighborhood and giving it a sense of place that roots it in its original time and roots it in its neighborhood or location in the world. That I think can really help you develop a design aesthetic for each house that is very personal and deep for the client, but feels appropriate for where it came from and where it lives.

A (4:46)

It's a great point about the algorithm sort of homogenizing design, and you obviously have it in. In a specific way for your clients and maybe kind of seeing what's new and what's different and, yeah, being able to put that into purpose. But I think, you know, we, the consumers also, also are sort of, I guess, at the risk of doing the same thing, maybe on a smaller scale, which is like that coffee table. I'm seeing it everywhere. Like, now that's the coffee table I feel like I need to buy. And I think that's sometimes where the algorithm is confusing because you're in. You feel like, oh, this is so timeless. It's a, you know, classic white kitchen. And then we see that regurgitated so many Times that then it feels specific. So how do you decide or, or I guess know which ones to stay away from? You know, something that's really gonna have staying power versus something that is, I think for us.

C (5:46)

I mean, you, you referenced our work being edited. Um, but I also feel like when, and again, we do work on newer projects and newer houses, but I'm speaking to some of the older homes. When you buy an older home, the house is a client on as well as the client being a client. It is not uncommon. It is more typical that the house has often been through many, many layers of renovations. And aside from the very wealthy up until about, you know, 50 years ago, some and even more now, some of the details that are added back into a house that we do are so much more accessible to everybody nowadays. So if I take a powder room as an example, you want to get it right, you want a cohesive design statement. You can use the house for the bones, but some of the most high end work you're seeing across the board, people can replicate on their own. Now you can find an amazing sink from Turkey for a reasonable price point to ship over. You can get, you know, de Gournay equivalent prints and wallpaper at a price point that might be more affordable with an amazing faro and ball paint color. Right. And so designed at a very high level, is accessible to the masses in a way that it never used to be. And so you just have to be careful not to end up with these Mr. Potato Head of houses. And if you use the house as the guiding life force of cohesion, then the things that are less permanent like the sink and the wallpaper or the faucet, you know, if 15, 20 years from now you just want to change your mind, it can be a different look, but you haven't necessarily infused into the house something permanent that just doesn't feel quite right, if that makes sense.

A (7:31)

Like sticking with the, the, I suppose, guidance of the original architecture. Your, your new thing, your new thing you've renovated is going to have more staying power because it's aligned with the original thing. So that's kind of what you're doing.

C (7:45)

Yeah, and we really knit things together. Something as simple as, you know, you do inset shaker face frame cabinets, but you leave a flat stop at the top and you run the actual crown molding from the room around it and you run the actual baseboard from the room around it. And so it doesn't feel like this appendage that got added to the house, it's got the Detailing all knitted together and that really gives you a level of cohesion that, that flows very cohesively.

A (8:14)

That makes so much sense. If you have bought this beautiful old home that you love and you love the style of it and the vibe of it. What if you bought a house that you were like this, you know, is the right size, it's the right neighborhood, it's the right price. Like, do I love the style? Is it my favorite thing? No, but like, here I am. I do feel like occasionally we get emails from people that are like, I don't really like my house, but, but how do I make the best of this? Yeah, what do you do there?

C (8:42)

I mean, scale, proportionist space planning is number one. So like really unpacking, what can you achieve in the space? I mean, the power of paint, wallpaper and window treatments is huge. Right. So if the scale and proportion is awkward, you can really cheat things a little bit with window treatments. You can really give a space like amazing impact with paint. It makes a huge difference, I would say. And, and then just really thinking through the proportions and getting those proportions right, of how you add furniture and add, add pieces.

A (9:22)

But, but should you still use that original architecture as your sort of guiding, you know, thread throughout?

C (9:31)

I don't think you can be heavy handed about it. So, you know, if you are in a modern, modern condo building, it would be unlikely that I would introduce an entire Georgian paneled, you know, crown molding detail. But what I might do is, you know, paint it a really amazing color, put up some great window treatments and then use pieces that are beautiful old, classic pieces mixing with other things to get a sense of authenticity and warmth and, and you know, a harking back to old age. But I think it can get goofy if you try to make something, something it's not, is my general take.

B (10:20)

Now say you're starting from scratch, because I do think that's part two. That is just another kind of, you know, way to look at it.

C (10:31)

You mean building a whole house from.

B (10:32)

Scratch and then integrating again just the style you want to. And for instance, we talk a lot to designers about, you know, your location does somewhat decide the architecture, but it doesn't always match. If that makes sense, like your love for colonial, but you live in Arizona. Does that actually, can you make that work?

C (10:59)

Great question. I have yet to do a colonial in Arizona. My general take, if a client called me and said, I'm a New Englander, I'm moving to Arizona, I just want my salt box shingled colonial that I have On Cape Cod, that's what exactly what I want. I would urge them to consider materials and adjusting things to be in harmony with location and place. So sunlight makes a huge difference. How the materials manage the weather make a huge difference. And so I could see a house where you might have, you know, a Spanish colonial roof and you might decide to go with stucco, but you might introduce proportions that. And scale that really speak to that colonial. But I would backwards infuse it with building materials and colors and tones on the outside that really works for wherever you are. And then when you get on the inside, same, I would. You want to manage floor, paint, color, all those things that the tones work with the sunlight of the place you're in. And then you can start to have a beautiful big farm table with authentic Windsor chairs made from, you know, my favorite place in Connecticut that makes them the old fashioned way and, you know, sweet rugs and a beautiful brick fireplace with a little, you know, kettle hanging in it. Like you can do all those things, but I think you need to adjust it within the percentages that contextually has enough of a reference for place and seasons. And sunlight that feels correct would be my pivot.

B (12:45)

No, that's a great idea. I mean, that makes the most sense. I just was wondering in this day and age too, how. Because we are so inspired all the time, and we are. There's such an influx of imagery and things like you said, that we enjoy and again, that we think are a trend and, or.

A (13:04)

And.

B (13:04)

Or things we find out we love, and it is hard to make sure it's timeless. So how do you help your clients with inspiration? Like, what are you giving them? What are you telling them? Where are you telling them to go and look? And.

C (13:23)

Yeah, great question. So I guess step one question is, you know, what is the relationship between client and, you know, designer and architect in terms of inspiration? And how long do you keep looking and when do you put the pencils down and the computer down? And for us, the process is very collaborative in the beginning in terms of gathering and imagery. It is very common. People love colors that look good on them. Look at people's closets, pull, you know, get a sense of what they're loving. I find it incredibly helpful to understand what is the energy, what is the mood, how do you want to feel, how do you want to live? You have to get really, really. People can get really stuck on imagery or Pinterest or very specific things that they like, but there's a point at which you need to get enough of what I've just described from clients and, and, and, and then let us do what we do and we'll go back to them and make some adjustments. And if it's a two or three year project, you know, you need to leave space for evolution, you need to leave space for things to change or for someone to travel and see something. But it, it's the thread of what you're doing. It does not need to be literal. The other thing I will say about that, partly because from a designer and client relationship, we have really been working hard to understand in this constant, moving, constant imagery world, how do we leave space for us to really do what we do well, while giving clients agency to feed us things, but not backwards edit, micromanage or flood us with our entire design presentation is, you know, an option for a backwards reverse Google search with 20 more options. And I have always joked that someday I'm going to rename the firm Soup and Symphony, because you would never say to somebody, take a bite of garlic, have a bite of salt, have a couple tomatoes, and you are not going to ask them one by one, do they like all those things as they take a bite of them. It's putting that soup together. Same thing. Do you like the oboe? Do you like the drums? Do you like the violin? It's putting it together. So for me, it's my job to understand, are we doing a really melodic symphony? Are we doing a really robust symphony? And then it's. And feed enough from that client and they may find things as we go, but it's the spirit, it's the energy, it's the emotion of where we're headed, if that makes sense. And that's as important to me as imagery.

B (16:11)

It makes complete sense. To your point.

C (16:13)

Yeah.

B (16:14)

You can only add in so many.

C (16:15)

I love that analogy.

B (16:16)

Other ingredients that weren't expected before you.

A (16:18)

Yeah.

B (16:19)

What is it now?

A (16:22)

And it's the way they work together that's the magic, not each ingredient individually.

C (16:28)

Yeah.

A (16:29)

But I do have a question about that. Cause I love that idea and I think it really speaks to why working with a designer is valuable. Or at the very least, having a cohesive plan is valuable. Right. Because it's how they interact, the different pieces that makes it feel special. But how about if you've, you know, you've done your house, you've. You've got a living room that every, every item works together. It's created this magical space. And then you move, like should you, you should still at least like each individual item. Right. Because there is a chance you could put it in a totally different context and still wanna like it. Or do you feel like that's not.

C (17:08)

It's. I'll actually. I'll. I'll speak about it personally. Cause I think I actually could bring that to a really personal level. Um, I have moved many times. I have owned a Greek Revival, a Victorian, an old Tudor house when my husband was getting his PhD. The most boring 1980s townhouse, blah, you know, situation. And I think that you have to edit and re. Put the puzzle together each time. And every time, for me, there are things that go in storage. Most of my artwork always makes the cut. Like, really passionate about my art. But when you move, you have to go backwards through the same process. And it is remaking a brand new, you know, puzzle or recipe. And it is a new challenge. And some things work and some things don't. And some things you love, you put in storage because maybe you use them next time, but you do have to be an editor. It's the way it gets done well and gets done. Right.

A (18:15)

Yeah. And I guess how you put those pieces back together maybe. Maybe in a new way, but.

C (18:19)

Well. And things can end up in completely different rooms too, you know, so something that was a great living room side table. Could be a bedside table in the new house. So you don't have to think about, like, this is my living room furniture. It goes in the living room. You know, a sofa that was great in the old living room might fit at the end of a bed or, you know, in an upstairs reading nook.

A (18:41)

Yeah.

C (18:41)

So it can kind of maneuver. I would say.

A (18:44)

One of the things that I really loved about your portfolio is, you know, there was. There was a lot of sort of like, classic. What's the word? I'm thinking of like, cabinetry. And, you know, the woodworking had a very classic feel to it. And then sometimes you would throw in sort of a modern counter or bar stool. Or not. Maybe not modern is not the right word, but like sleek. Sleek lines, know, clean line. Silhouette. Yeah. More contemporary.

C (19:19)

Yeah, I would say more edited. I mean, that's sort of how we think about it within the office. But. Yeah, so. Sorry, ask the question.

A (19:27)

Or, you know, or a.

C (19:28)

Or sort of a.

A (19:30)

Like, beautiful edited pedestal table at a banquette. And so I loved sort of the way there was. And it would be like a really beautiful wood, but very, you know, clean silhouette. And so you could see, like, here's where you've got something more contemporary, and it's mixed with the thing that is very classic and So I loved the way you were bringing those pieces together. So I was curious, maybe talking, if you could talk through a little bit of, you know, what makes you go for the more clean, lined, you know, bar stool or table, and how you're bridging those two pieces together maybe with the traditional cabinetry to make that special, you know, moment.

C (20:17)

Yeah, I mean, we do a lot of the interior architecture on the projects that we work in. So all the paneling, all the cabinetry, all the trim work, all the millwork, like that is sort of on our shoulders. Different projects. If we have an architect involved, we'll collaborate with them, but generally speaking, we're the ones designing and doing all of that. Um, you know what? I do think we're living in a time of maximalism, and it's interesting because I.

A (20:51)

Welcome to our ugly home.

C (20:53)

Reddit is back for a historically hideous season. It's our 100th ugly house. This place is made AM. That is impressive. And if these walls could talk. Do you cry a lot?

B (21:06)

I do.

C (21:08)

They'd have a lot to say. What in God's name is this pit? Don't get too close.

B (21:14)

No.

C (21:14)

If you see the show, I'm scared of that. Ugliest house in America. Season premiere Wednesday at 8 on HGTV. You know, we are all influenced by what we see, what we experience, what we feel. Back to the emotion conversation. I have always found that the projects that we complete most successfully and the houses I'm drawn to just have a quiet elegance and restfulness to them. And it doesn't mean they're boring, and it doesn't mean that they're not layered. But to your point, given that if a house has a more traditional slant and the cabinetry is more traditional, it's easier to take the less permanent things and whether it's a light fixture or a bar stool, and give them a softer, more sculptural, more edited quality, because those are the easiest things to swap out and change, almost like you would an earring, you know, in an outfit or a great pair of shoes. And so if the architecture's done well, there can be room and space over time to adjust those things. But I also think that it takes steadiness to, as a firm to kind of understand what is the story we're telling. And we are collaborating with our clients. But there should be a through line to the work you're doing, particularly once you're a more established firm. And I think that is a piece of who I want to be and the work I want to do just gives you that great exhale when you walk in the door and that it is edited, but also warm and approachable and livable and. And all those things. And I personally live in a house that is more layered with texture through artwork and books and, you know, sta. And wool and linen and like real textures. I'm not a pattern on pattern on pattern person in my own life. And so I think while we use patterns in our projects, we don't. We don't use tons of them. And we are apt to want to find a sculptural moment. So you're probably seeing that.

A (23:28)

There was one in particular that I was like, this is so pretty. It was a.

C (23:32)

Well, now you have to tell me.

A (23:33)

Breakfast banquette. I know. I'm trying to figure out, like, all of my tabs. Yeah, it was a breakfast park. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It had this great cushion. It's sort of a plaid. And then, you know, and the. The mantelpiece was a beautiful marble mantelpiece in the room. And the kitchen had, you know, very classic paneling. And then the. The table was sort of a tulip table and this beautiful oak. But I felt like the. The oak and the. And the wood textures sort of had enough of that. Maybe traditionalism, like it had this traditional material, but in this, you know, contemporary line. And I love the way that came together.

C (24:13)

Well, thank you. And what's interesting about that reading nook is that. And I will give a shout out to Lauren from my team, who was the senior designer on that project. I will say I do have team members who are super talented and have perspectives that grow mine and are along with the clients. And what's interesting about that is that when you have a small nook, you know, a pedestal table is obviously the best way to get people around it and not have legs in the way. And you can access a banquette. You know, this classic Saarinen table is always a great go to, but that is so clearly 1960s, mid century. And so the pedestal table that we had custom made for that project has a fluted angled base with a little bit of a pitch to it. And it's an authentic oiled oak table. And so what you're seeing is that, like, okay, you've got this really classic house that has this dental molding on the trim. And the dental molding goes around the kitchen hood. And then just by giving this fluted moment to the base and warm oak material, you've taken something that could have been a little more cold and sterile and Given it a warmth, but like winking to be a little mod. And so that is an incredibly geeky way of over explaining one table choice. But thank you for noticing. And it was purposefully doing the job in a couple different ways to do what it's doing.

A (25:36)

Yeah, well, you know, and it, it's like there aren't a lot of elements in that little breakfast nook.

C (25:42)

Right.

A (25:42)

Like there's a cushion, a back cushion, a light, a rug, two chairs and a table like you. Each thing had to be really beautiful and matched together perfectly to where, you know, because you. There weren't a lot of other flourishes.

C (25:59)

Nothing on that vignette came off of a container ship from mass production. And so that is something. I should raise my hand to say that something emotionally changes when you use real materials and when you have people roll up their sleeves and make them with their hands. And nothing has a really candy shell poly on it. Nothing is synthetic. This client was very sensitive to chemicals as well, so we were careful about that. Light is handmade from a small batch Etsy. Etsy vendor, like that does make a difference.

A (26:36)

You know, I was curious about your, you know, you're in the Pacific Northwest. You were talking earlier about really being focused on creating a mood and a feeling in the room. Right. And that's sort of like your guiding light. And I was curious if there are certain things that your clients are looking for because they're in the Pacific Northwest. You know, is it, you know, you were talking earlier about how you don't get a lot of seasonality there. So is there something that you're like, are your clients more. More apt to be focused on natural light or coziness or something just because of the environment that they're in that you're trying to create?

C (27:18)

There's a real down to earth quality to life in the Pacific Northwest because we don't get harsh winters like we do on the East Coast. We are just out and about all the time. And I do think that people want to live and love the outdoors and have, you know, they want to be able to walk in and out with muddy shoes and be able to handle the house. I think lighting things and managing things in such a way that during the darker months, you know, things feel warm and lush and inviting. I should add that picking paint colors, which I touched on earlier, I think it's relevant the way the sunlight during the winter months cast through the sky. It's like living in Scandinavia. So managing it that way, I think is really important. Generally speaking, the projects we engage in and we like engaging in. Our clients want something really beautiful and special, but they don't want super flashy. They don't want blingy. You know, it's not a show offy kind of town. It's a really get out and hike and kayak and come home and nestle back in. And so I think there's a layer of that that is. Informs our design.

A (28:37)

Yeah, like a relaxed quality or something.

C (28:40)

Definitely a relaxed quality.

A (28:42)

Let's talk a little more about painkillers, because I love you're. You know, we always, always. Everyone always wants to know about paint colors. So if you were talking to a girlfriend or something and they were asking for, you know, your wisdom about picking paint colors in the Pacific Northwest, what kind of things would you tell them? Like, you know, grays are going to be grayer, warms are going to be warmer. Like, what kind of things are sort of.

C (29:07)

I like a pink color that's not a screaming bright white. Sherwin Williams alabaster is a go to. It has kind of a chalky English plaster quality that I really love about it. If you do want a white that is true and does not go pink and does not go yellow, Benjamin Moore's simply white just has enough warmth in it to not be sterile. And so that's another really favorite go to. We do bring a lot of warm creams into our whites as well, and that feels great. I would say in the winter months, cool tones can actually feel great around here, but you have to marry them with an earthy side. So there have to be, you know, rich browns and textures and other things in the room that kind of offset it. The colors that struggle a little more in the Northwest, I would say, is if you try to go with some of the more, you know, like some of those, like, crazy, crazy deep ochre yellows that you might see in New Orleans or in Mexico. You know, you go on vacation and fall in love with all those, and you paint them here. Like, they just don't quite jive with the blue light that we get as well. A smidge of that works, but you have to balance it with some other things.

A (30:24)

I would imagine that would be a real challenge, moving from one part of the country to the. To the other. You know, like your whole scale of. Of paint and picking paint would have to change just because the light's different.

B (30:37)

Well, it's different per house. And then you move to a whole nother, you know, climate. And I imagine your whites, that you or your favorite whites have those Changed through the years.

C (30:46)

Yeah, they have a little bit. I would say a little bit. There are a couple still tried and trues.

B (30:53)

But yeah, your tried and trues for cream colors because I feel like those are really hard too. It's that area that's a little like. Well now it's this. Too much of this and too yellow.

C (31:04)

Lancaster White is really pretty. And hold on, look this one up because it got painted and I was looking at it yesterday and it looked so.

A (31:16)

Yeah, that one. Lancaster White's a real creamy one.

C (31:18)

Uh huh. But so Sherwin Williams Kestrel White. We just did a whole house where the walls were Ben, more Swiss coffee. And then the base case in tram was Kestrel White. And it is so pretty.

B (31:34)

I have a white house in the south and I had to pick the white for the sighting and it was the most stressful just based on quantity and to not make it a. The amount of blue white houses in my neighborhood is so perfect. So much that I went I horrible offensive. I leaned cream no matter what. I was like, I would rather my house go creamy yellow than at all end up in this like stark sterile color white.

A (32:07)

So.

B (32:08)

And I know outside is so different and I think that was the interesting part is I really had my heart set on a certain kind of a sagey green for the shutters. And the color I assumed would work once we were outside became completely baby blue. And I was like, I don't. Yeah, it was one of those where nothing. I just had to keep pivoting to areas that when I look at the color I was like, this is not it. But then outside it just became such a completely different color. Do. How do you do outside colors? What's like your magic formula? Because I don't know if I got it right.

C (32:43)

I mean honestly, I will say we will do pick our favorite neighborhoods and we tend to work in cities so we'll pick our favorite neighborhoods and start checking on houses we like. Or Pinterest is definitely helpful on that front. Some of the historic collections are really helpful for outdoor colors. So Ben Moore and Sherwin Williams both have really good historic collections and those colors tend to have pigments that are just a little bit muddier. They're often, you know, they're often based on what pigments they could have found 100 years ago more naturally. And so those can be a lot safer. Usually like go for something weird and crazy with your front door but stay a little bit more classic with the rest. Is tends to be how we handle it. And then honestly you have to do samples to your point, you know.

B (33:32)

Yes, we do. I mean, we have beaten that into our listeners. If they don't notice sample at this point. I mean, yes, we have. We have lost.

C (33:41)

Now, somebody this morning was asking me about a pain color going up and they said, okay, do you want us to just text you or FaceTime me once the sample's up? I'm like, yeah, you. No, I will be over on.

B (33:51)

I will not take an image because.

A (33:52)

That I know gotta see what's my realize not my phone.

B (33:56)

We'll get samples and they'll be like, here's the finished digitals. And you're like, send it. I. I mean, I literally need to see this product to make sure, you.

A (34:05)

Know, you do your best, but you.

B (34:07)

Do have to see it.

A (34:08)

Yeah, well, even like, you know, I've had girlfriends who'd be like, well, the. All these people painted their house White Dove by Benjamin Moore. So I'm just gonna do that color. And I'm like, no, yeah.

B (34:20)

Take advice.

C (34:21)

But yeah, try.

A (34:22)

You have to try it.

C (34:23)

Right. I also think don't be shy. That's my other advice. If you found a house that you love, ring that doorbell.

B (34:28)

Amazing.

C (34:29)

Ask them what their paint color is. Don't try to guess. You know, like, people forget to talk to each other. Like, just go talk to them and they'll probably tell you, like, oh God, it took 50 samples. This is exactly this. I'm and Peter cut it by 20%. And they'll be so happy and true flattered that you asked them.

A (34:44)

There's a house I walk by all the time. And I've. I've thought I always walk by it when I'm like on a walk. So I never have like paper with me. But I've always thought I need to put a piece of paper in their mail, in their mailbox. Be like, will you please text me your paint color to this address or this phone number? Maybe one day I will when I decide to repaint. But okay, but what about lighting? Are there other sort of. You know, once you've picked a paint color for your client's space, do you do any sort of extra lighting? Being in the Pacific Northwest that you feel like helps, you know, helps during those winter months, those kind of.

C (35:22)

I mean, we're pretty sensitive with lighting in general to light for all occasions. I will say as battle rap as we get the Pacific Northwest. Our summers are exceptional and we are light from 5am to 11pm and so, um, you know, it's. There's both range of the spectrum going in terms of sunlight. But I would say my lighting approach here is actually no different than it would be for a house in Boston. So we are deep believers in getting light at the human level. So sconces, table lamps, floor lamps, all those good things. Um, obviously I've gone back and forth with older homes on can lights. We're actually now a little bit in a hybrid mode where like a nice 4 inch can in certain places. I laugh. I'm 50 years old. Your eyes switch and you have that sense of like, yeah, I could use that extra light. So we're supporting some of those overhead decorative fixtures with 4 inch cans now more than we used to.

B (36:26)

In what applications? No, deeper. Yeah. And I think it's like, is it kitchen, living room?

C (36:33)

Well, I feel like washing kitchen for sure. Dressing room sometimes. We're actually working with a lighting consultant that I haven't worked with one in a while that I really like. And I was so impressed with his presentation. He talked a lot about washing walls. I have a client who has this spectacular house in Essex in London, and the lighting person there had done all these things because you're not allowed to have can lights in these heritage houses and that, you know, they're like washing the walls with artwork or uplading the walls. And that sounds very Vegas. And it's. No, it's like they're able to do it in this most amazing warm way. And I was so ready to not be a believer. And I'm impressed, actually. Really impressed.

B (37:17)

I mean, to your point, we need light to see, so there is a certain level of what is that maybe wonderful evening light that feels good and looks good on people. But you do need to function. And to your point, you need to be able to know when your pants are dark brown or black or is that a navy versus a black? Like, that's some, you know, that kind of stuff is important for having light.

C (37:39)

For sure. Yeah. And I think lighting. Back to your question of, like, what if you have a big white box and you don't have a heritage house or apartment? Lighting can go a long way to setting a mood. So, you know, if you're not allowed to put sconces forever in the wall, like, get a nice pair of sconces and if you can't, if it doesn't come with a cord kit, you can add a cord kit and just paint the little thing that goes down the wall and hide it behind a sofa. Really try to at least turn off or dim some of those overhead harsh lights when you're really using a room for certain purposes and would light it again at that human level of layup, sconces, table lamps. That makes a big difference.

B (38:23)

Yeah, lighting really does. Do you find where you are now that you use. You're using more lighting just because of the. I know you talked about the summers being real long and lots of light, but no.

C (38:34)

Okay. I don't think it's any different than Boston. I mean, I don't. I don't think it's any big, huge pit.

B (38:39)

I always wonder, you know, if in places like Alaska where it's, like, even more extreme, would you.

C (38:47)

I mean, we light a fire or turn the fireplace on or, you know, like, last night was Sunday. Yeah, but I don't. Or, you know, lighting candles and things earlier in the day. But I don't feel like we're actually architecturally, fair enough. Significantly different.

A (39:02)

Well, you do wonder, like, I would think that in certain areas of the world, seasonal depression is a real thing where you, you know, and so maybe it's only a few months of the year, but you might really want to design your space to. Or maybe even just certain rooms, not all rooms.

C (39:20)

Well, and that's where you can get really geeky about ketra and light temperature and, you know, there are light bulbs that will, you know, be more sunlight percentages. And like, for that situation, people do shift as well. But, you know, there's a fine line between it feeling hokey and feeling authentic.

A (39:38)

Any, like, common, you know, sort of pitfalls you feel like back kind of back to the. The trends and timelessness. Any. Any sort of common pitfalls you feel like people make when shopping that mean that their spaces or maybe a piece that they've chosen doesn't stand the test of time. Anything you feel like you wish you could tell people to avoid scale is everything.

C (40:08)

Obviously, teaching scale is. I mean, it's. It's a. It's a thing to know and learn. Logic and durability. I would think, like, rugs are a big one. There's a lot of really inexpensive jute rugs out there that just fall apart immediately. And there are other ones that are better made, that have different fiber qualities. And investing in pieces to your point about stand the test of time, invest in a. A good piece of upholstery and houses wear. So even if you get five or seven or ten years out of it and you reupholster it, you know, that is better than maybe buying something so inexpensive that the foam just falls apart and it's not even worth reupholstering I would say.

A (40:56)

What kind of rugs are you thinking? Like wool rugs? Like what, what is your go to?

C (41:01)

We have a combination of things. We are passionate about heritage rugs and antique rugs. I will say the global marketplace, Etsy in particular, and some of our favorite vendors that are small batch vendors, we lean on all the time. The nice thing about a heritage rug is that they are often made with a wool warp nweft. They have the high lanolin quality that you're going to get from the undyed sheep wool. And so they just have a naturally stain resistant property about them. On top of looking really good, everyone loves a good textural sisal, you know, rush rug, but some of them are a little bit more durable. Jute is made of rope and so roop is going to be the thing that probably stains first. And you know, but some of my favorite rugs have been big, old beautiful, generous jute rugs. And I just know I'm gonna probably have to start all over in five years because even just the traffic pattern of someone walking across a corner every single day, you know, and it's a 5 to $800 rug and I know it's going to look great and it's okay like to have to replace things and you kind of think in that mindset, you know, So I think you have to go into it knowing why am I buying this? What's the purpose versus, you know, sometimes high traffic areas will do an indoor outdoor rug that looks like a sisal because we know we want to have kids and dog in life and not worry about it. We want to give it a longer season of life. So it kind of just depends.

B (42:27)

Yeah, we love a sisle and it is, it's the thing we always, I feel like we're always trying to say is going to look great, not going to last, like, is going to be beautiful and it always looks amazing. But like, just be prepared. Like, don't think you're buying once, like yeah, being done.

A (42:46)

I just picture like, you know, you got muddy boots walking across the sisal rug. Like, I don't know, sometimes it just gets in those little grooves and you're like eh.

C (42:56)

But I think that's where you can say, like, well, let's set everybody else up for success, right? So like, well then why not go with a smaller sisal and then put a six by nine like old Ushak with really dark colors. Those first two steps, that mud and that water gets on the old rug and you still get to have a sisal. Or you put the old rug on top of the sisal and there's of lots less real estate of sisal near where someone might spill something, you know, So I there, you know, there are conversations to be had to allow.

B (43:24)

Well, and sometimes a room just needs that natural element, you know, or sometimes because the wool rugs with all the you that are usually a color, I.

A (43:33)

Should say they're usually.

B (43:34)

I know they make many. Yeah.

C (43:37)

But they don't do the same thing that the sisal does. I would agree with that. Well, and I think that the. I do think that, you know, our grandmothers or great grandmothers expected to have to mend or wear and tear or rotate or do whatever. I think because we can make a certain percentage of life seemingly bulletproof these days, we forget that things take tending and mending, you know.

A (44:00)

Yeah. There's something about a wool rug with like some patches or some frayed edges that's incredibly charming. Whereas you wouldn't think the same thing about a sisal rug. You know what I mean?

C (44:09)

When I stand by the side, I. I've been told that Americans are way more uptight about this than Europeans. Everybody goes on vacation to Italy or England and thinks, I want this. But they're not willing to let it go through the layers. And whenever clients question living with marble and they worry about the etching and the staining, I will say, do you go to other people's houses and see the etches and stains? You know, but everybody sees that ring of the first margarita party they had or that, you know, that somebody decided to make, you know, salad dressing and a lemon set on the counter or whatever it was. But nobody sees the stains in other people's house on the patina that it takes to build. And they certainly don't go to Europe and see it. But often Americans are not willing to give it the time to get those layers. Yeah.

B (44:52)

Seen as hard to accept, especially on something you. I think the financial part. Right. I think if it comes patinaed, you feel differently than something brand new.

A (45:02)

Well, it's like it's the first ones better heart, you know, the 20, 30, 40th, maybe you're like, whatever at this point, but it's, you know, like, you know, have. You have like a farm table. Think about like a wood table and you get that first ring on it and you're like, oh, my God, horrifying. But then you go to an antique store and you buy a farm table and it's got like woods and chips and like, yeah, it's incredibly charming. Yeah.

C (45:27)

Yep.

A (45:27)

Well, speaking of which, I, I did love, you know, we talked earlier about how use lots of, you know, some more clean lined furniture pieces in your clients houses, but you're also using a bunch of antiques. Just really beautifully, beautifully placed antiques. Whether it's a. Like there was a big hutch in one of your projects with a gorgeous patina and, and lots of antiques throughout. I was curious, you know, when and where do you love to use an antique and I guess how do you think about weaving it together with something that's more contemporary?

C (46:08)

Yeah, I mean I think we use antiques in all of our projects. It's very rare that a room doesn't have something that is older and you know, found. There's just a level of quality and craftsmanship and interest and warmth to be gained by doing so. We prioritize it. It's so natural in the way we design that we don't think about it in a strategic way because it's our go to, you know, I wouldn't look for a knockoff of a beautiful old French armoire. I would want to find the real thing. And that's sort of the game of the hunt. And it's the passion that I started with with my Sotheby's and design, you know, an art history background. I want to be helpful to explain how and why we use it. But it's a bit like explaining how a painter paints a canvas. I just. It's that push and pull intention of interest and flourish versus simple and edited that we try to find a balance of. And using antiques is such a part of our ethos. It's just what we naturally do. We wouldn't think too otherwise.

A (47:15)

Are there certain time periods or wood finishes of antiques that you're. You find yourself drawn to?

C (47:23)

What's interesting about that particular question, historically speaking? Again, I live in the Pacific Northwest where fir. Right. And green trees. I'm looking outside. Green fir trees are our natural plentiful source In Europe and on the east coast. Pine and oak have historically been the more common. I think I am more drawn to oak. It probably does layer in to my New England roots. If things are super orangey fir, it's maybe less my own personal happy place, but we aren't necessarily looking for any one specific wood or finish. It's just does it work? Is it the right piece?

A (48:10)

There's this one project that was such a great example of the sort of push and pull of antiques and, and more contemporary pieces. The Bellingham Foursquare.

C (48:23)

Oh yeah.

A (48:23)

And had all this fabulous, like, dark mold or, you know, woodwork, like a great staircase and wooden mantels. And then I felt like you were using such clean, lined, almost mod furniture pieces. Tell us about that project.

C (48:40)

It was.

A (48:40)

It was just a really.

C (48:41)

Yeah. It's funny. Hillary from our team, it's actually her house and she's the one person who's ever been a client who's actually come on board to work with us, but she does all that stuff. What a great story. I know she has three kids now, and so she. She does all of our onboarding and website inquiries now. But she personally has a love of just really light, airy, a bit scandi maybe. She also has a deep passion for antiques and very edited. And she came to find this phenomenal house that was originally owned by a judge in town when it was first built turn the century. And it is heavy. It is very much a house built to entertain and impress. And she came to me to hire our firm to say, I have a young family of all girls and I want something that is light and airy and scandi. And I am buying a very heavy, woodworked, dark house. And so she and I really set out to find a through line to allow for all of these sort of simple, soft scandi forms. You'll see like the. The dining table is an oval and the chairs are original dark, kind of blackened oak. And the artwork is really simple line drawings. And then there's this really cool sort of like almost like bubble chandelier over the dining table. And, you know, she wanted a house where you could pile drawings and crayons and toys. There's a sweet little play area just piled up in the entry. And we wanted to figure out a way. Hillary herself is very warm. She's very accessible. The things she loves are simple and elegant. And we were like, okay, game on. How do we take this big, heavy house and tell that story, you know, and not paint the woodwork? Right. Because that would have been the easy solution.

A (50:59)

Yeah. And the woodwork kind of makes it. It creates this incredible backdrop for some of those, like, light furniture pieces to pop off of the woodwork.

C (51:08)

Well, and then this house purposely chose really sculptural, edited, more scandi infused modern light fixtures to freshen up the old heavy house.

B (51:20)

Mm.

C (51:21)

There was no sort of crystal, brass, old schooly light fixtures. Like purposefully really light and airy on the light fixtures.

A (51:28)

Yeah.

C (51:29)

And adding more light fixtures to your.

B (51:31)

Point, you had to. I can't even imagine it with the original heavy. Like how you would get it for. Yeah, yeah. A young family that is clean and that's an interesting one.

C (51:46)

And it's another one of natural textures. Like, that house is very much linens and velvets and wool and, you know, really kind of authentic materials.

A (52:01)

Well, that was one of my favorite projects in your portfolio, so thanks for telling us about it.

C (52:06)

Sure. Thanks.

A (52:08)

Well, it was just a delight to get to look through your portfolio. And I loved, you know, kind of. See, you're. You were mentioning earlier how we're. We're living in sort of a more maximalism time. Like, there's a lot more layers and color that's kind of happening now in the workplace, so. Or the. The industry. And so it was fun to get a little bit of a restfulness. The edited nature of your work was really, really delightful.

C (52:36)

Well, thank you.

B (52:37)

And your website is beautiful. You have a beautiful website that really, everyone should check out. Just enjoy your work and your point of view is so lovely.

C (52:46)

Well, thank you.

A (52:47)

Can you tell everyone where they can find you, follow you and see your work?

C (52:50)

Absolutely. So, lisastateandesign.com website@lisastatendesign, Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook and LinkedIn.

A (53:00)

It looks like you're on the Expo.

C (53:02)

Sorry? Oh, yeah, we're on the Expert. Of course. Thank you for saying that. You know, it's so funny, when the Expert first launched and they were asking us to join and I was like, how is this ever going to work? And it people come so prepared. It is. I do them on Friday mornings typically, and we're always full. And you can reach out if there isn't a time listed that works for you. We can pick a different time. But it is so cool. People come so prepared with PDFs and questions and we get to dive right in. And if you haven't looked at the Expert, check them out on Instagram, look at the platform, and it's just a full, dedicated hour to all those things where I think a lot of people get like, oh, I've got great taste and I can put together a Pinterest board and I've got an architect and the builder's grade. And then you get so close and then there's this like, wait a minute, I am so overwhelmed. I am so confused. And is this working? And the Expert's just great for that. Really great. We also do. I will say the Expert call has been full of people who are interested in working in design or own a firm and want to kind of scale up and maybe grow their team. We get a Lot of expert calls of young designers or people entering the market who really just want to talk about career advice.

A (54:22)

Okay. I just had this vision.

C (54:24)

Okay.

A (54:25)

When you are taking an expert call, do you know what you're going into or are you really just putting. Because I've never done it before, so I have no idea.

C (54:32)

Sure.

A (54:32)

Are you, like, logging in and you're like, I have no idea what I'm going to get.

C (54:35)

Yeah. So the way the expert call and the reason the expert works so well is that you have this full dedicated hour with the designer, but everything's through the platform. So, you know, you don't have their email, you don't have their cell phone. You can't follow up with questions. But what you can do is you have the opportunity to put together a brief ahead of time. So people will upload a PDF, they will upload floor plans, they will upload photos. Some people will do nothing and they'll just chit chat or show me around on the zoom call. But if you do pre upload, generally speaking, we take, you know, 10, 15 minutes ahead of time to kind of pre review. And then I often have people re review while we go. And I'll sit and sketch, I'll hand draw. I'll take a photo and screenshot and post it. I know Jessica Hallison, like, marks up on the screen while she goes with floor plans. And people will do repeat expert calls. They'll get themselves kind of unstuck, and then they'll. Then they'll come back like three months later and ask a few more questions. It's just that proof of confidence where you're close but you're just not quite sure. Or you might not see the things that a professional would see, you know, or sources. People do come for sources too.

A (55:49)

Oh, I'm sure it's incredibly helpful. I'm just picturing you, like, waking up on Friday morning, like, no idea what kind of questions I'm gonna get today.

C (55:55)

Totally. And it's always, yeah, yeah. I usually know the flavor of the house. I know where it is, and I may or may not have some photos in a PDF. Yeah. Okay.

A (56:05)

So I bet that brief is really helpful. You could do a little prep work.

C (56:08)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (56:10)

Well, Lisa, thank you so much. It was a delight to talk to you and thanks for sharing your work with us.

C (56:16)

Absolutely. Can't wait to be featured, and I just really appreciate it.

A (56:21)

All right, that's our show. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog, howtodecorate.com podcast to.

B (56:29)

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A (56:35)

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C (56:40)

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A (56:45)

Until next time, happy Decorating.