D (4:59)

That's so wonderful. I mean, the Guy Goodfellow aesthetic is so rooted in history and tradition. And I feel like your sensibility that you bring to the work that I've seen seems to follow along with that, but still has a freshness and a lasting timelessness to it. I'm wondering how. Just how do you do that? Just break it down for us?

E (5:33)

How do we do it? Well, we always start with the bones of the building. We always start with the architecture. Guy's an architect, so, you know, he will. And we will sort of look at plans and really try to get that all right in the beginning, because actually, if you get the bones right, then everything else sort of falls into place, not afterwards. Because it's a sort of, you know, it's a sort of collegiate way of working. But if you get that right and the architecture is correct and the rooms are balanced and they function and they work, then the rest is sort of interior design and decoration, which sort of evolves over time. It's never static and, you know, things can sort of be swapped in and out. And I think this sort of timelessness that we strive to create is through a sort of.

C (6:36)

Hi, listeners. If this episode has inspired you to tackle a project in your own home, we want to help with a special offer just for podcast fans. We know how exciting it is to bring your vision to life. Whether you're updating a room or starting a refresh, you'll find everything you need to create a space that feels uniquely yours. As a thank you for listening, enjoy. 20% off plus free shipping on your next order with the code PODCAST20. Visit Ballardesigns.com to get started. Your dream home is just a click away. Use podcast 20 for 20% off plus free shipping codes not combinable with other offers. See terms and conditions for details. All right, happy decorating. Let's get back to the show.

E (7:16)

I'm not sure there's really a formula. It's more of a feeling, if that sort of makes sense. So this sort of layered, evolved, sort of, you know, comfortable accumulation of design, it sort of. It just evolves and it seems correct, if that makes any sort of sense.

D (7:42)

No, totally. It's just. It's so amazing to see these rooms that do feel like they've evolved over time, but then, I mean, clearly they're projects that you've put together. So there's such.

E (7:54)

There's.

D (7:55)

Right.

C (7:55)

Yeah.

B (7:55)

And it never looks like yesterday. That is what Liz is get. I believe, getting at. It's like.

E (8:00)

Yeah, so I. I guess they're all about being deeply personal. I mean, that's what's really important in any of this, is just to have to try and create homes that are deeply personal to the people that live in them, that are sort of biographical in a way. They tell a story. They, you know, they tell a narrative. They sort of feel lived in. They sort of respond to all of the sort of. The character and the personality traits, the interests, the sort of curiosities that those. Those people have. And I guess it's our job as the interior designers to sort of tease that out, to really understand it, because you want to create something that feels genuinely reflective of the people that live in them. Yeah. Because otherwise you're Just creating something that doesn't really have much substance.

B (8:56)

Right, right. Well, yeah, and we're really good at that here. I feel like, I mean like in general we make these layered, you know, we in general, America, we have a lot more new builds. My assumption, this is assuming, I'm sure, again, you work in all sorts of places, but compared to what you are rooted in, which again is this very English layered look, we are very good about going to the store down the street and buying the display and coming home and plopping it down and calling it a day. You know, that depth of character that it takes again years to build and collect and you're doing it in one sweep. It feels like, well, but yeah, so no, break that down. I want you to be like, no, you're wrong.

E (9:48)

We are doing it. I mean, there are certain projects that you're sort of, you're governed by a period. You know, you're governed by an install date. You know, you go through design development, you go through that with the client, you estimate it. You sort of put everything into procurement and you know, it's a challenge, It's a challenge to sort of get them in. But I do think that with a lot of our projects there is, there is the opportunity to sort of revisit, there's the opportunity to, to sort of pause and take thought that I haven't quite found the right commitment for the left hand side of the fireplace in the whatever room. And so rather than give, you explain to your client that you're looking for the piece. And it's not a sort of, it's not, it's not forgotten about. You know, again, it's this narrative, it's this idea of really only trying to find the very best. And sometimes the best just takes a long time. Sometimes you, you know, you're looking for some time. And so it's not that I'm saying our projects have, have gaps. They don't. We adhere to a sort of, we adhere to an installation date. But sometimes you are afforded the great sort of luxury of being able to take a little longer or, you know, I've got a client that I'm working with at the moment, a wonderful client of mine based in America actually, but we did a, an apartment for them in London. And it was a very quick turnaround. And I'm reminded of this because I went there today and we had, I think it was about 14 months to do the whole, to do the whole thing. And it was pretty intense, but we did it. They had very fine furniture that, you know, was part of their collection, which we incorporated. And. And it was sort of. It was done. They moved in, um, and. And then I sort of didn't hear from them for about, you know, nine months. And then they finally came to London. And it was only in this time that they were staying in their London apartment in January that I think even they felt they had just moved in. So even though it was nearly a year later, suddenly they started to respond and think about things that perhaps. Perhaps they hadn't thought about in the beginning. And we're sort of now doing a little mini phase in finding better pieces or finding something different, or you've lived with something for a short period of time. Say you just feel that you want to change it out. And that's really nice. I feel that a lot of our clients here, they. They don't just sort of. You don't install and then leave their clients for life. And sometimes you've worked on the same projects, you know, a number of times, so they're sort of always there. And when you can find the right piece. I know having, you know, I might be at an art fair in London or something and think about a client, and even though we're not sort of working for them at the moment, say, well, do you like this? This would be wonderful for this room. Or I've seen this really impressive piece, and they love that because that really is the natural evolution of those rooms. So I guess what I'm trying to say in a really roundabout way is that, yes, they do come together quite quickly, and they do sort of give this feeling or this legitimate feeling of feeling sort of deeply personal, lived in, evolved over time. But sometimes it actually does take time to legitimately do it.

B (13:42)

I think that's. I. And I'm sure, Liz, you're going to say the same thing. There's so much value in hearing you say that, because, again, we talk about expectations and we just expect, you know, when we have so much visual coming in all the time that we expect it to be done. I think there's that whole, like, if I just get this one last piece, it'll be done and I'll be set and it'll be good to go. And it's not always the case. And I think that's beautiful.

E (14:06)

I think it's about explaining that to the client. And we had a client recently, and they were new clients to us, and they had this wonderful townhouse in London, and I think that they were a little hesitant because we had sort of presented an Entire scheme for this house, and we had been design. Developing it in tandem with the architect, and I think they thought that the entire thing would come together and they would sort of just almost sign off on one document and that would be it. And then they would move in. And I had to explain that it's pretty much impossible to do that. And if we did do it, then the. The integrity of the design and the pieces wouldn't correlate because we would be having to source or commission things that. That were sort of quick wins.

B (15:01)

Yeah.

E (15:01)

And we don't want to do that

B (15:02)

here versus what you really want.

E (15:04)

We want to make life really tricky for ourselves.

B (15:07)

Yes. You want to make your job harder, but the final result more beautiful.

E (15:12)

Well, I think. I think we do make life harder because what we want to create, as I say, by creating homes that are deeply personal and this is sort of biographical, if you like. It means that you're constantly having to rewrite the blueprint. It's not like I can take, you know, something that I've done before. I can take elements of it. We obviously have elements of our sort of house style that we like to, you know, to. To use again and again, but you're never creating the same thing, which means you're always going through the sort of the prototyping phase. The phase that is. Is not tried and tested, and that is difficult, but it's because we want it to be deeply personal.

D (16:06)

Well, and I think that there's something about this, too, that we don't really talk about with our listeners as much, is that it sounds to me like your clients are always on your mind, and that relationship doesn't. Doesn't. That relationship doesn't end. Right. You're so.

E (16:23)

Yeah. Well, you're always seeing things and you're thinking, oh, that would be wonderful for this client, or I'll send this information to them. I mean, I think it's. It's also because we put our clients front and center in a world that is saturated by interior designers. It's really important to, you know, to be. To put your clients at the center of your world. You know, they're busy people, and, you know, you want to retain them as a client and you want to garner trust. And, you know, Guy and I and the team here, we're. We're. We're forever thinking, you know, we. I mean, I'm not sure I ever really switch off. Come. I mean, like. Yes, we love what we're doing. I'm. We all do. I think.

D (17:05)

Yeah. One of the Things that I think is so remarkable about the rooms that you all make is that they never feel showy. They feel a bit more quiet and comfortable and always, always accessible. Like you could just step right into the picture and just have, have, you know, a conversation on, on the sofas and just relax for the afternoon and read.

E (17:34)

Yeah.

D (17:35)

Like, what do you think is really pulling that together in so many of your. The rooms that you're pulling together?

E (17:46)

I really like the idea that you use this, you know, sort of relaxed, like, invites conversation. That's how I always sort of think about roomies, as a sort of conversation. I want them to feel sort of lived in, never pristine. I hate sort of walking into anywhere that you feel that you can't, you know, put something down that feels too precious. Feels like you can't sit on a sofa because somebody's going to come along and plump the cushions and it's disorderly. It's just, I think it sort of makes. When something is sort of lived in and relaxed feeling even with great pieces of furniture, even in a really beautiful, you know, sort of very grand room, it's all about how you sort of, I guess, how you humanize something. And the idea of, you know, the sofas being rather deep and generous somewhere that you can sort of curl up, you know, the fabrics not being so precious. So the idea that dogs that have just been outside just sort of jump onto and sort of be okay. I was staying at a friend's of mine in Norfolk this weekend and what they do so brilliantly, and he's another, you know, he's a great decorator, is that nothing is precious. And you know, my dog is out on the lawn, sort of scuffing the lawn and he sort of, you know, ran in and I'm, you know, trying to get him off the sofa and actually he's just like screaming, screaming. He's just like, it doesn't matter. I really like that sort of lack of, sort of pretension. Guy always talks about sort of,

C (19:35)

you

E (19:35)

know, mixing rich and poor. So when you have a very sort of rich looking fabric to then contrast it with something that's much poorer. So if you had on a pair of, you know, beautiful elbow chairs, a more formal, you know, fabric on the front, a damask or something sort of much traditional, then to maybe put on the reverse something that just felt drier and poorer. And I think that's a really good way of sort of bringing down the room to make everything just feel more comfortable and less sort of ostentatious. Yeah, it's the paradise podcast.

F (20:20)

I am your host, Ryan Michelle Bathet with my husband Sterling.

E (20:24)

What's up?

F (20:25)

Join us here on Hulu and Hulu on Disney, where we'll discuss each episode with the cast and crew of Paradise. I'll be getting all the secrets from Dan Fogelman, James Marsden, Shailene Woodley, Julianne Nicholson, and Sterling Kelby Brown. Paradise, the official podcast is now streaming

E (20:43)

and stream paradise on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.

B (20:49)

No, I agree. That's a beautiful way to. To look at it. And good to remember too, of friends. Right. Visiting someone's home, you do want to be able to be relaxed and not uptight because you've just paid whatever and you're anxious about anyone using the space. And then what is it worth? It's not if you can't use it and enjoy it.

E (21:10)

Exactly. And you know, people are feeling in a space because it is all about sort of comfort and the idea that something makes you feel comfortable. So it's not just like comfort and being able to sit on a comfortable sofa. It's like the general comfort of being in somebody's space because they make you feel comfortable. Mm.

B (21:31)

Right. And I do feel like your work is. There's again, like Liz was saying, I think comfort is a simple word, but it's. It's so precise in this that this very English layered look.

E (21:43)

It.

B (21:44)

It's truly comfortable. Nothing feels hard. And I want that. So how do I. How do I layer up is going to. Was going to be my next question because I feel, you know, just like you. I'm sure you start again with the good bones and then you have an empty space and now you have to make it beautiful. And, you know, how do I add layers without making it feel too busy? Because none of your spaces feel too busy.

E (22:20)

Hmm. That's interesting. Well, I guess it's about a really well thought out, you know, sort of general arrangement of furniture. I mean, that's key, right? So the idea that with every chair, you know, should be a lamp and a table. So that's sort of important. And again, the proximity and the heights to the furniture so nobody sort of sat on the wrong chair. That's too high. Within a sort of conversation. The idea that you might sort of create zones in a room so without with it not being too sort of static, but creating little sort of conversation areas, I guess. The layered look. We always talk about the layered look. How do you get the layered look?

B (23:12)

Gosh, we just want it. I know.

E (23:15)

Sort of, you know, I mentioned Deep sofas, you know, layered rugs, lots of lamps. Different lamps at different heights. You know, I mean, you know, seeing.

B (23:24)

Yeah, you're not matching them. You're not like. You're not matching lampshades. Lamps per se.

E (23:30)

I mean, you say it's so obvious. Think it's about. I mean, you wouldn't want, you know, how would I say this? I guess it's. It's about not being too pristine, too themed and too rigid. Does that sort of make.

B (23:54)

Yeah, no, it makes complete sense. I'm like, gosh, you know. Well, that's what this. I feel like this podcast has been so wonderful about, is trying to teach people again that guttural feeling that is so. Like you said, it's a feeling and kind of holding their hand to try to be like, how do you get that feeling? How do we describe it so you can understand? And no, you've done a great job. But I totally.

E (24:20)

I'm with you. I think that, you know, But I mean, isn't everything. Sorry, isn't everything in design and it's sort of about collecting ultimately? Yeah. If you. If it really crystallize, if you really sort of crystallize it. It's just about what, as a. As a client, as a collector, as a person, what is it that truly interests you? So lots of people have sort of fixed ideas about things because actually they. A lot of people don't have the confidence to say, I like, you know, this color, or they don't feel sort of confident in their choice. And actually, if you just have real sort of confidence in what you feel in your. In your conviction, it's like a gut reaction to something. I mean, I just instinctively know when I love something because I cannot. I cannot think about anything else. Like, I know when. I mean, just minutes before we. I came up here, a colleague that I'm working together with some on something, she said, oh, by the way, the clients collect selected this wallpaper out of all the wallpapers. And I said, well, God, out of all the wallpapers, why did you ever show her that one? It's the wrong. You know, it felt like a bedroom wallpaper. And it just felt incorrect. And there was a sort of misunderstanding, but I instinctively knew, even though the client had selected it from a. From a little digital board, I'd have to have a conversation with them to say, actually, total misunderstanding here. And what you thought is going to be right isn't right in the context of the overall scheme, which is a challenging thing to. Especially when they really like It. But I think that going to your point about the. The layering of rooms is also just about legitimately layering and allowing them to evolve over time. Because ultimately, what is time? It's like time is set by an installation date commercially. But when it's your own home, you're not. You're not really. You're not really. You're constantly evolving time, are you. You're just sort of always finding new things. You're moving things. I know from my own example, I'd now learned to live with picture rails because I would constantly move pictures around and there would be whole Swiss cheese in the walls. So in a roundabout way, I guess I'm saying that it legitimately evolves. It legitimately. Layers.

B (27:13)

Layers come with time.

E (27:14)

Confidence in what you genuinely like. Because we all know what we genuinely like. Push comes to shove, don't we?

D (27:21)

I think I should hope so. But, you know, it. It's just the matter of feeling confident, like you said earlier about. About making that decision and showing everyone that that's what you like for when they come over to your home. Right?

E (27:37)

Yeah.

D (27:39)

So how has your own renovation been shown what you like?

E (27:49)

Yeah. So I've just finished our flat in London, my husband and I, and he works in textiles. So, you know, the two of us together, you know, are. There's a lot to agree on, and we tend to have a.

D (28:06)

There's a lot to choose from.

E (28:07)

A lot to choose from. And we generally have a rule that if, you know, one doesn't like it, then we don't go for it. I think, again, to labor the point, but I feel very authentic in saying it, that it is truly representative of the things that we love. It's a very, very small flat in sort of southeast London, and we've had to, you know, fit a lot in to a relatively small converted space. And I think we made small architectural changes, like just moving a window 30 cm to the left sort of created a whole new sort of axis for the kitchen, which then, you know, sort of impacted the dining room. And then by removing a small vestibule to a bathroom, allowed a much bigger, you know, sort of shower room inside. So. So these really small tweaks made a much greater sense of sort of the space. But I guess I'm talking about that from a sort of layout perspective. But your question was. Just remind me your question again.

D (29:17)

Oh, sure. Just how did you find your own personal style in your current renovation?

E (29:23)

I think that, again, we had lived in that in our flats for about three or four years. And interestingly, when people came afterwards, they said, well, I can see what you've done, but it doesn't actually feel fundamentally that different, which I actually was really pleased about, because I don't feel like it. I think we've done the architectural changes, we've changed the hard finishes, we've done a new kitchen, we've done a new bathroom, we've redecorated throughout. But ultimately the spirit of the house is still the same. The paintings are still the same. You know, we've upholstered some other pieces of furniture. We found new pieces of antique furniture. Actually, if anything, we've sort of. We've slightly become more, I don't want to say minimalist because that is really not who we are. But we've become more edited actually, and we've really focused on the good pieces rather than more of the less good. But I think it's perfectly embodies our interest in textiles, in both antique textiles and textiles that, you know, I, we, we have at Guy Goodfellow as part of the collection, but also textiles and Philippe's company that he works for. So it's a sort of, it's a, it's a perfect harmony of the antique and the new. But nothing really looks too new in terms of the textiles. I guess there's an underlying what I call sort of slightly dirty color to it all because I think that that is the ochres and the deep greens and the sort of, you know, the deep reds like that is. That's what sort of characterizes that, that apartment. And it really works. And I think that it works to show what interests us. And yeah, I.

D (31:35)

Did you find that editing process challenging or were there moments of tension within?

E (31:43)

Well, I think ultimately you're sort of governed by a relatively small scale space, but. And it is, you know, by no means, as I say, minimalist was totally the wrong word to use. Still jam packed full, you know, I mean, of, you know, sort of even down to over all the doors, for example, there was a good sort of 60, 70 centimeters between the tops of the architraves to the ceilings, actually more in some cases. And so we had these sort of cantilevered, you know, bookshelves built above all of the doors that you would then have runs of books in nearly every room because it was a way to not have too many bookcases. It meant we could have more furniture and then you would just have all of these sort of books at sort of spring points above, above the doors. So it was a clever way of basically you know, creating storage. But actually it's very beautiful and it's very. It's. It's very necessary in those rooms. But I think that. I think naturally the editing process often comes because you. You've sort of. The time has come to sort of pass something on or to get rid of it, or you see something differently or something. Something else piques your interest. I think that some things last forever and some things have a sort of expiration date depending on, you know, depending on the object. Like, there are paintings that I know I will always have and I will give to somebody, you know, one day, but there are sort of other things that I fall in love with and sort of fall out of love with, and then I, in a. Sort of give them to somebody else or.

D (33:37)

I wanted to talk a little bit about English country home style, and I have a feeling that that means probably a little bit something different to everyone. How would you define it and what are some of the misconceptions you think that we have over here in America about that? I feel like it's very much on trend right now.

E (34:02)

But how to emulate the style, to

D (34:04)

emulate both, I think both interiors and gardens. And, you know, I think everyone. I think a lot of folks here are looking for that level of comfort. But what are some key parts of an English country home that. That would define it for you?

E (34:22)

It's less a formula and more a feeling. I think I said that before. Um, the idea that it's accumulated and sort of never themed. Um, the idea that it's sort of lived in a. Not too pristine. The idea that actually it's just legitimately evolved over time. Um, I think. How does that differ from American homes?

D (34:52)

I guess you. You mentioned themed. Like, I just. I don't want anything that I do that feels British to feel themed in my own home. Right. I think that that's probably a key where, you know, how do. How do we bring in. Sorry, I'm fumbling now, but, you know, trying. Trying to bring in heritage and. Heritage and comfort. But what are. What are some additional themes that you see? And we can. We can skip this whole thing if.

E (35:31)

No, no, no, no. I'm good on this. I'm good on this. Let me just see if I've got any, because I did make a couple of notes because I thought, my God, I'm never going to be able to get through them otherwise. In America. My sense is that you sort of take a project and it's like the whole project here. I think you sort of Sometimes you take, I mean, more often than not, we do the whole project, but sometimes you sort of get these little splintered off rooms.

B (36:01)

Yeah. Like a little sprinkle. You'll get a one little space to help with.

E (36:05)

I mean, nobody in England ever really says that they sort of employ an interior designer. They always say, I've had help. Which, you know, is an interesting sort of idea in its sense. Whereas of course, in America, you know, you. It's like a, it's a, it's a, it's like a key performance indicator to, you know, sort of your, your status, your wealth. It's like a particular car or something. You, you put a great amount of integrity and respect in decorators.

B (36:40)

Yes.

E (36:41)

I love that. You really do. You know, you sort of. You put them on a pedestal. You know, you give them the credit and the kudos that they require. I mean, and it's not that I, you know, need to be sort of celebrated at all, but I'm just saying that I think that's a different way. And I think here we just have a slightly more sort of less matched, paired back approach to decorating. Maybe it doesn't feel so, so constructed or maybe the idea that we don't want it to feel constructed. It's sort of deep, it's like the perfectly imperfect. Whereas I, if I think about sort of, you know, an American client of mine, like everything has to be very, very perfect. You know, she doesn't want any sort of imperfections. In fact, in their London house, sometimes she just can't get her head around that. We've put in a fabric that feels like it turns the whole thing on its head. Like it's what Guy would call like a shot in the arm. Just like she can't quite get her head around it. And we tried it and she would rather it just felt a little bit more. Harmonious with the rest of the theme. Where we like things to feel like they've almost been dragged into the room.

B (38:04)

Yeah.

E (38:05)

Like scales slightly off. You have a lot of heritage, the patterns slightly off. Like it feels like again, it might have just come in at a later stage.

B (38:13)

Yeah, her great aunt gave it to her and it was from her estate in the south of. Yeah, it's a beautiful.

D (38:20)

We love great Aunt Mildred. She's got taste. But there's, but there's. I think you, you said the word eccentric and I think allowing for a, a piece of eccentricity is something that I think we're not as accustomed to. Um, but I, I love that idea of, of Allowing space for eccentricity.

E (38:43)

Yeah. And I think that that also goes back to the advice or, you know, my, my, I say advice, like recommendation. My, my thoughts on like freedom and self expression. And if you can only say to somebody to sort of feel freedom and self expression and what they really, really want. If you can really tease that out. Yeah. Then there are eccentricities there. It's often people won't tell you what they want because they're scared of what you're going to say.

D (39:12)

Right. Those are the parts we're shy about.

E (39:15)

You think you are as Americans or as.

D (39:19)

Yeah, I don't think I am personally. You come to my house, you'll, you'll, you'll know me in the first as. As soon as you walk in the door.

E (39:25)

But isn't that worried what we want to do? I mean.

B (39:28)

Yes.

E (39:28)

Isn't that. That's what design.

D (39:29)

That is the end goal. Right.

E (39:31)

You actually want to open the door, feel relaxed, feel invited into a conversation, feel at home and feel that you have an understanding about the person that lives there. I mean, that's what I want. And I mean, I guess that's, that's the difference between this great sort of debate about design and, you know, when people. And it's not the work that we do, but I. When people talk about wanting to live in sort of. Or emulate hotels for their. I think we're kind of moving away from that now ultimately. But, you know, this idea that it's sort of homogenized, it lacks identity. You could be in London, but you could be in Doha or you could be in la. Like actually it all looks the same.

B (40:26)

Right.

E (40:27)

Does that sort of make sense?

B (40:28)

Oh, yeah. You don't know. They make it so you don't. Anybody can stay. You don't know who's staying there and. Yeah. And when it comes to a home, it's not what we expect. We want to know.

E (40:38)

But of course, many people do want that in a home. It's just they wouldn't come to us for it.

B (40:42)

Oh, no. You are wildly too fabulous. I need to know what is your most hated American design? Like something that every friend. Yes. That you're like something through the ages. There's got to be something that you hate about American design.

E (41:05)

Oh, I don't know. Give me a cue. What should I be hating? I sort of never really thought about that.

B (41:16)

That's good.

E (41:17)

That means you are sort of offend me. I do, yeah.

B (41:20)

Offended. Yeah. Is there something that offends you? How about the way we.

D (41:23)

Or just in General.

B (41:24)

Yeah, we strip every finish off every antique from Europe and we're just dry finish, like just letting them bleach out

E (41:33)

of what's going on. Yeah, yeah. That's a shame because I, you know, and I've sort of. I again, I guess over the years have worked with people again that have that sort of pristine polish. And I once had a client that famously, we were looking at a Queen Anne sort of games table or something, and I went to the antique dealer in London and I. The games here was perfect. It was absolutely brilliant. The style that the everything. And. But it was pretty beaten and battered and. And, you know, at the time, the clients sort of said, well, you know, it's great, Stephen, but we'll have to refinish it, so send it off to wherever and we finish it. And when I sort of went to look at it again and I said to the dealer, well, look, you know, it's ultimately a bit disheveled looking. And the client's saying, we're going to have to refinish it. And he said, oh, darling, just, you know, just make yourself a new one. Don't spoil it for others. Let somebody else have it. And I sort of thought that was a really good way of sort of, you know, because the idea that you. Most people love the patina of time, you know, the layers, the damage, the, you know, whatever it is, it sort of tells the story. It's sort of. It's the chronology of that piece. And so to sort of start stripping it off does seem a little perfume

D (43:10)

kind of, especially for a games table. Like, just think how many games have been played if it's really battered.

E (43:16)

Yeah, exactly.

C (43:18)

So.

E (43:18)

So we didn't actually buy it and we found something sort of appropriately, sort of more. More polished looking and somebody would have enjoyed that games table. But to think that, you know, one might take 250 years off the top of it does seem a little distorted.

B (43:36)

I mean, I think that might be it, that we're just like, there's an over. Not everyone. But of course, this perfectionism to it all, like you said, it's got to be perfect. It's. I mean, and that goes back to some of the first things we said again, that the whole lay look is so hard for us because, oh, that's old, that's been used. That's, you know, which is such a sad way of thinking of things sometimes.

E (44:00)

But I think that rooms also need humor. You know, they. They have. And goes back to the eccentricity. If everything feels like it's too Sort of, you know, too constructed. Then like, where's the humor? Where's that little piece of ugly in the end? Or the funny card or the naff gift that someone's given you because it wouldn't mean anything to you, but it means something to me. And again, that's those elements of personality that, you know, come, come through and I think set rooms apart.

D (44:38)

Yeah, I love that. So let's all just work to embrace. Embrace the imperfect. Be a little bit eccentric.

E (44:47)

Yeah, I love that.

B (44:50)

I think that's perfect.

D (44:53)

Well, we do have a decorating dilemma, if you'd be so kind as to help our listener out. Today's decorating dilemma comes from Sarah. I love your podcast and I've listened to more episodes than I can count. Thanks, Sarah. My decorating dilemma involves an 1895 summer cottage on Martha's Vineyard.

B (45:21)

First, Stephen. So you know, that's really old for American standards, just so we're clear.

D (45:28)

True. We're giving our second floor a long needed update. We have five tired bedrooms full of mixed secondhand furniture. The bedroom doors are off a long, narrow, dark center hallway that runs the full length of the house with no windows. I am excited to update the bedrooms with fresh looks, paint, wallpaper, rugs, and new furniture. My dilemma is how do I treat the hallway? And is it important to tie the bedrooms to the hallway and to each other? My thought is to pick a fun wallpaper and runner for the hallway and then pull colors from the paper and into decorating the bedrooms. I'm obsessed with all the wonderful wallpapers available now and could easily get carried away. But I also thought about using some of the bed in the bedrooms if it's not overkill. There's a skylight in the hallway that provides some natural light. I love color and wallpaper, but wonder how far can I go? Should the bedrooms tie together somehow or should it have. Should they all have their own distinct personality? Thank you for your expert help from Sarah S. So she's included pictures of her house and a few of her living rooms so she can get. So we can get the overall feel for her cottage vibe that she's striving for. So, gosh, I think this is right up your alley.

E (46:51)

Well, it's a very beautiful house and quite a dilemma. I mean, it's quite the project, right? I think that. So I think that the thing that really. What was the point. The point about the skylight. So I think that from the image I can see, You know, definitely using the skylight to floodlight because I Think that she said that on the corridor, there is no natural light. And I don't. I can't quite work out where it is in the hallway. It looks like it's above the staircase. And I. I don't know if you could almost create within the light. You could almost drop like a lantern or something within it on like a sort of crossbar or something. So that would give an interesting light at night and a sort of focal point. I think that a joyful sort of wallpaper is. Would be. You know, and the runner can really transform it. But I don't think that the bedrooms need to match, although I think they should relate. So I think that in any project, I think a sort of conversation between rooms is really important. So the idea that nothing is too jarring, nothing seems out of place to the next room. I mean, I know that some people have like a. You know, they say, oh, well, I want this type of room, or like, this particular, like, I think about a project that we're working on at the moment. And, you know, ultimately, it's a sort of. It's a Regency townhouse in London, but the basement looks like it's something, you know, entirely contemporary or, you know, it's. It's high deco in a way. It's. It's sort of different from it. So I think it's fine in those sort of isolated places. But I think here, if this is sort of a guess wing of bedrooms, then a conversation. The idea that they're sort of sisters rather than twins is a kind of good way of looking at it. Is there a thread that you can run through. From the hallway? Is there sort of color that you can take through and relate into the bedrooms? It looks to be a rather narrow corridor, and I wonder whether or not you can create a sense of sort of rhythm and balance with a very narrow console. It doesn't look like you could really put any chairs, but is it a very narrow console with a mirror? Could you put some, you know, very discreet, sort of quite shallow wall lights would be. Would be, I think, a way to sort of generate interest. And if it was a linear hallway, if you could create sort of, you know, a console on one wall and then something on the other wall, and it sort of moves through in that direction, if that makes any sense at all.

D (50:06)

Yeah, that does.

E (50:07)

I think.

D (50:08)

Yeah, I think you're right. Like a mirror at the end of the hallway where she now has a. Like a painting.

E (50:14)

Yeah.

D (50:16)

Might be a great way to bounce some of the light that's coming in from the skylight?

E (50:19)

I think so. And, you know, you could have a very sort of shallow cantilever demilune table with a lamp, maybe vase. I think it's, you know, a lot can be achieved there, I'm sure. Maybe some if you don't use the lantern over the skylight and you just let the light flood through, then maybe creating a sort of series of smaller lanterns as you move through. I guess it depends with anything. You know, you, you, you have something in your mind. And in more cases than not, it evolves. So it doesn't just evolve stylistically, it like legitimately evolves. And you think that it's just a lick of paint and a bit of wallpaper, but again, it's about getting the bones right. If you're going to wallpaper here and decorate, then why not get an electrician to come in and run some extra, you know, run wall lights for sconces, for a picture light. I mean, a picture would look great at the end of the hall.

B (51:23)

A picture light with a. Yes.

D (51:25)

Yeah, I think that's. I think that's really great. And I think to your point too, like, really just going, Going really fun and making. Making that hallway a bit of a destination.

E (51:38)

Yeah.

D (51:38)

And it's unclear on whether each one of those five bedrooms on this corridor are occupied full time. They're for guests. I mean, just. Yeah, you could just have so much fun.

E (51:53)

Yeah. I think that, you know, in a hallway like that, you sort of want a sense of lingering. So the idea that it doesn't become a thoroughfare to a final destination. There's somewhere that you might linger that you might look at. You could have a collection of pictures, something to sort of pique your curiosity as you walk through. I mean, that just makes life much more interesting.

D (52:19)

I love that idea.

B (52:20)

And what I do love about an upstairs hallway too, is it can, I feel like, be even more personal, like you said, with the pictures like this is if it is just your family staying up there, why would you not, you know, to your point, put the humorous things in the children's art or something special, like random?

D (52:40)

Yeah.

B (52:41)

You know, you're not.

E (52:42)

It's a little bit more private. It's a little bit more personal. We just recently did a project in the country and we sort of redid this sort of spiral staircase which sort of is on one of the back wings of the house. And again, it's. It's leading to the children's bedrooms. And it was a really good place to actually focus the family photography. So we have this very beautiful staircase, a spiral staircase, and they have a lot of this work, but it didn't seem appropriate to sort of put it anywhere else that wasn't in their bedrooms. So we just had everything in black and white, everything mounted in these beautiful frames. And then as you walk through it sort of, you know, it sort of celebrates the family, really. It is personal. But you wouldn't want it in your entrance hall. It would seem. That would seem too person personal.

D (53:33)

Right.

B (53:34)

Yeah. Because the guy. Yeah. When you have guests that you're not that close with and you're like, no, no, I didn't need you to see my.

D (53:41)

Well, actually, in the house, the house I grew up in, in there was. You walked in the door and you were in the kitchen, and then there was a long, narrow hallway that took you to the dining room and to the living room. And that's actually where my mom did a gallery wall with all of our very kind of personal, like, photos of, like, you know, a funny, like, picture of kids laughing or, you know, family photos or things like that. And invariably, that's the one place that everyone would linger.

E (54:10)

Yeah.

D (54:10)

Like, when you had new people coming in, they really wanted to stop there and they got a sense of who we were as a family and.

E (54:19)

Exactly.

D (54:20)

Yeah, that's. That's kind of what this makes me feel like. It's that same long, narrow. But I love the idea of making it a destination space. That. Yeah. How wonderful.

B (54:33)

I know. I think a wallpaper, some sconces, some pictures. This will be so fun to meander through on your way to the rooms.

E (54:40)

And I think it's about scale, and it's sort of difficult to get. But, I mean, everything is about the scale. I mean, get it wrong, and you can feel underwhelmed. It can feel too twee. It can feel like a doll's house. I mean, scale is everything in both pattern and furniture. So, you know, picking the right thing is key.

D (55:04)

Okay, I want to touch on one more thing. She talked about the. The rooms pulling colors from the wallpaper, or do they need to match? And what is your thought on that? Like, really with. I mean, do each one of. Does she have, you know, the pink room, the blue room, the green room? Like, how do you. What are your thoughts about kind of theming rooms or just having them be kind of neutral, pulling colors in.

E (55:31)

No, theming rooms is lovely. I think that's a really, you know, if you. If you have a desire to have a pink room, a red room, not a red room, a yellow room or. But I mean, that, that's fine, but I think that you have to find something that all that connects them all. So if you look at, you know, if you look at the wallpaper, if you find the sort of wallpaper that really makes your heart sing for this, this corridor, then, and you sort of laid out all the other set of rooms opposite, you know, off of it, then you need something to sort of unify it. And maybe it's a color, maybe it's a pattern. I. Yeah, I think that, you know, I would lean into it rather than retreat. Because otherwise, I think if you sort of try to just make something that is inconspicuous, you. You won't, you won't linger.

D (56:28)

Well, this is such great advice. Good luck, Sarah. Send us pictures when you get it all done. We'd love to see. Steven, thank you so much. This has been absolutely wonderful to talk to you. Can you let all of our listeners know where they can find you and follow you?

E (56:44)

Thank you. Yeah. So the interior and architectural website is guygoodfellow.com and the Instagram is Guy Goodfellow. And our fabrics and wallpapers is Guy goodfellowcollection on Instagram. And my handle is stephenrodell.

D (57:04)

Thank you so much. Well, that's our show.

E (57:07)

Well, very nice to be a part of it. Thank you very much for inviting me.

C (57:12)

And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog howtodecorate.com podcast to

B (57:17)

send in a decorating dilemma. Email your questions to podcast@ballarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space.

C (57:24)

And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at Ballard Designs.

D (57:27)

Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.

C (57:34)

Until next time, happy decorating.

B (57:39)

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