Podcast Summary: How To Fail With Elizabeth Day — Charlotte Church: ‘I was totally exploited. I was a commodity’
Date: October 15, 2025
Live from the Forum, Bath
Episode Overview
In this deeply candid live episode, Elizabeth Day sits down with Charlotte Church—former child musical prodigy turned activist, healer, and retreat founder—to explore the pivotal failures that shaped her multifaceted journey. Charlotte discusses growing up in the public eye, the exploitative nature of the music industry, and her evolving relationship with nature, creativity, and activism. Throughout, the conversation balances humor with unflinching honesty, offering personal insights into healing, patriarchy, and the challenge of becoming one’s wildest, truest self.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Early Musical Awakening and Fame
[04:02] - [06:30]
- First Song and Childhood: Charlotte recounts her first song as “Ride On Time,” which she performed with gusto at age three—eschewing nursery rhymes for pop hits.
- “Apparently I was just, absolutely shredding that Right On Time riff and just having a ball.”
— Charlotte, [04:19]
- “Apparently I was just, absolutely shredding that Right On Time riff and just having a ball.”
- Natural Talent: Her mother noticed Charlotte's unusual musical recall, knowing the lyrics to all the top 40 songs by nursery age.
- Surreal Teenage Years: Charlotte details bizarre, whirlwind experiences—performing globally, sitting a GCSE at the White House, and presenting with celebrities like Wyclef Jean and Eminem at age 14.
- “My life has been such an insane tapestry of experiences. A lot, really. A lot for a young person to deal with.”
— Charlotte, [05:52]
- “My life has been such an insane tapestry of experiences. A lot, really. A lot for a young person to deal with.”
- Notable Encounter: Tom Cruise stood out as tremendously kind to Charlotte and her family, defying Hollywood stereotypes.
- “He knocked on my dressing room door and he had his two kids with him…’You’re so wonderful.’”
— Charlotte, [06:36]
- “He knocked on my dressing room door and he had his two kids with him…’You’re so wonderful.’”
2. Nature, Psychedelics, and Reconnection
[07:57] - [11:51]
- Working-Class Urban Upbringing: Nature was absent from Charlotte’s childhood in Cardiff; connection came only through travel and motherhood.
- “A lot of the time when you’re working class in a city, nature doesn’t really factor… even going on a walk would be, like, what?”
— Charlotte, [08:24]
- “A lot of the time when you’re working class in a city, nature doesn’t really factor… even going on a walk would be, like, what?”
- Psychedelic Experiences: Ayahuasca and mushrooms played a pivotal role in her healing journey, linking her to nature and self.
- “I found my experiences to be revelatory, to be hard, but I'm also really interested...[in] what psychedelic medicine can do to us and can help us with, particularly in terms of our mental health and our trauma.”
— Charlotte, [10:21]
- “I found my experiences to be revelatory, to be hard, but I'm also really interested...[in] what psychedelic medicine can do to us and can help us with, particularly in terms of our mental health and our trauma.”
- Crucial Realization: Rather than being separate, humans are “woven into the web of existence which is nature.”
— Charlotte, [10:02]
3. Failure One: Creative Suppression in the Music Industry
[11:51] - [17:47]
- Lack of Creative Autonomy: The young Charlotte was feted for her vocal talent, but her creative instincts were suppressed.
- “I was constantly getting to sing with orchestras… But it wasn’t what I loved, you know, because actually at that time, what I loved was the Spice Girls.”
— Charlotte, [13:12]
- “I was constantly getting to sing with orchestras… But it wasn’t what I loved, you know, because actually at that time, what I loved was the Spice Girls.”
- Industry Resistance: Attempts to break from classical crossover to R&B were quickly shot down. She wasn’t allowed creative input.
- “My tiny little startings of writing and making my own music…that very quickly got sort of shut down by the people that I was working with in the industry.”
— Charlotte, [13:19]
- “My tiny little startings of writing and making my own music…that very quickly got sort of shut down by the people that I was working with in the industry.”
- After the Industry: Self-funded releases allowed for total creative freedom, but required learning the business side herself. She now feels “free and golden and just like, easeful and juicy” in music creation.
— Charlotte, [15:50] - Finding Creativity Beyond Music: Curating her wellness retreat, The Dreaming, proved her creative power and helped heal old wounds about artistry.
- “That was the thing…that really first started to make me accept and realize that I was a creative being.”
— Charlotte, [17:47]
- “That was the thing…that really first started to make me accept and realize that I was a creative being.”
4. The Exploitative Music Industry & Self-Protective Lessons
[19:20] - [24:07]
- Exploitation & Contractual Abuse: Charlotte did not feel protected or nurtured—she was a commodity, not a child:
- “I was not looked after, I was not nurtured. I was just totally exploited, like I was a commodity… I had 40% of my earnings taken from me by my manager at the time.”
— Charlotte, [19:47]
- “I was not looked after, I was not nurtured. I was just totally exploited, like I was a commodity… I had 40% of my earnings taken from me by my manager at the time.”
- Industry Context: The industry’s “soil was full of shit… full of terrible chemical compounds…strangling lots of young women at that time.”
- “And that soil was full of shit.”
— Charlotte, [20:58]
- “And that soil was full of shit.”
- Message to Her Younger Self: Despite exploitation, Charlotte expresses pride in her poise and inner calm amidst chaos.
- “I’m really proud of her. I’m really proud of the poise that she showed and the bravery and the calm in the storm.”
— Charlotte, [21:19]
- “I’m really proud of her. I’m really proud of the poise that she showed and the bravery and the calm in the storm.”
5. Failure Two: Patriarchal and Colonial Conditioning
[24:17] - [36:09]
- Patriarchy as Internal Conflict: Despite active self-work, Charlotte recognizes the inescapable grip of patriarchal and colonial ideas.
- “[Getting tattoos], I could just see it all, like. And my whole body was, like, reactive to the ways in which I was still allowing sort of patriarchal oppression in my life…from men, from women, from others, from myself.”
— Charlotte, [26:30]
- “[Getting tattoos], I could just see it all, like. And my whole body was, like, reactive to the ways in which I was still allowing sort of patriarchal oppression in my life…from men, from women, from others, from myself.”
- Lilith Symbolism: Her aquatic coral water snake tattoos were inspired by Lilith, “the first woman,” reinforcing spiritual and feminine strength.
- Compassion for Men and Healing Polarization: She stresses the harm patriarchy causes all genders and the need for compassion and balance.
- “Patriarchy is fucking terrible news for all of us…as women are rising, that is making a lot of men feel, like, threatened… It’s just that they’re so used to imbalance.”
— Charlotte, [26:59], [28:55]
- “Patriarchy is fucking terrible news for all of us…as women are rising, that is making a lot of men feel, like, threatened… It’s just that they’re so used to imbalance.”
- Generational Loss: Men’s loss of brotherhood and community, she suggests, leads to extra isolation and mental health struggles.
- Radical Forgiveness and Rage: While Charlotte finds it hard to fully forgive those who harmed her, especially in the tabloid press, she advocates for “tending the rage”—keeping fire alive, not letting it consume.
- “Have I forgiven? Not quite. Okay. I gotta keep a little bit of that flame, that fire.”
— Charlotte, [36:49]
- “Have I forgiven? Not quite. Okay. I gotta keep a little bit of that flame, that fire.”
6. Tabloid Betrayals & Phone Hacking
[36:09] - [36:59]
- Leveson Inquiry & Tabloid Intrusions: The press not only hounded Charlotte; they hacked the phones of extended friends and her family priest.
- Wounds beyond Her: Charlotte recounts her mother’s depression and suicide attempt due to relentless press attacks, adding generational trauma.
7. Failure Three: The Elusive Wild Woman
[38:50] - [45:43]
- The Wild Woman Archetype: Charlotte aspires to be freer, less confined by societal or personal restraints—connected to nature, creativity, and intuition.
- “She is pure creativity. She’s…lush… In so many ways I think…I feel really confined. I feel really not free. I’m doing my own fucking head in… I’m still, like, in these traps, in these patterns and traps of behavior.”
— Charlotte, [39:02]
- “She is pure creativity. She’s…lush… In so many ways I think…I feel really confined. I feel really not free. I’m doing my own fucking head in… I’m still, like, in these traps, in these patterns and traps of behavior.”
- Perpetual Healing & Self-Work: She warns against spending all one’s life in relentless self-work, advocating for circling in and out of healing.
- “We need to be able to circle in and out of it…go in for periods of time…But that is what makes us advance, is suffering.”
— Charlotte, [41:53]
- “We need to be able to circle in and out of it…go in for periods of time…But that is what makes us advance, is suffering.”
- Care for Others’ Opinions: Charlotte doesn’t care “what a lot of people think”—except insofar as she wants to bridge divides, even caring what “fascists think” to heal society’s polarity.
- “What else are we supposed to do in this age of polarity than to be a bridge?”
— Charlotte, [42:47]
- “What else are we supposed to do in this age of polarity than to be a bridge?”
- Mainstream Mockery: A recent TV sound bath segment mocked her alternative spirituality, deeply touching old wounds about not being taken seriously.
- “That pissed me right off… I was like, I really like you, Alison, but fuck you.”
— Charlotte, [43:21]
- “That pissed me right off… I was like, I really like you, Alison, but fuck you.”
- Dance Between Radicalism and Mainstream: Constantly oscillating between pushing boundaries and playing the publicity game, for the sake of her causes.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “I was just totally exploited, like I was a commodity.”—Charlotte Church [00:18], [19:47]
- “That soil was full of shit. Actually full of shit. Wouldn't be too bad, would it? Full of terrible chemical compounds…strangling lots of young women at that time.”—Charlotte [20:58]
- “Have I forgiven? Not quite. Okay. I gotta keep a little bit of that flame, that fire.”—Charlotte [36:49]
- “She’s so tantalizingly close, the wild woman...I feel really confined. I feel really not free. I’m doing my own fucking head in.”—Charlotte [39:02]
- “Tend the rage.”—Charlotte [37:10]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Charlotte’s early musical memories, industry surrealities: [04:02] – [06:30]
- Kindest celebrity encounter (Tom Cruise): [06:36]
- Nature, psychedelics & integration: [07:57] – [11:51]
- Failure 1: Creative autonomy suppressed by industry: [11:51] – [17:47]
- Music industry exploitation & self-reflection: [19:20] – [24:07]
- Failure 2: Stripping out patriarchal & colonialist conditioning: [24:17] – [36:09]
- Tabloid and phone hacking trauma: [36:09] – [36:59]
- Failure 3: Becoming the wild woman: [38:50] – [45:43]
- Sound healing TV anecdote, handling ridicule: [43:07] – [44:33]
- Radical honesty, navigating celebrity and activism: [44:40] – [45:43]
Episode Tone & Closing
True to the spirit of “How To Fail,” the tone is raw, reflective, and empowering—equal parts laughter, vulnerability, and hard-won wisdom. Charlotte’s openness invites listeners to reconsider the meaning of failure in their own lives, reminding us that amidst rage, wounds, and societal shaming, healing and wildness remain possible.
Recommended for: Anyone curious about fame, creativity, healing, activism, or simply seeking inspiration to be braver and wilder in the face of life’s adversities.