Emily Atack - ‘I’ve forgiven people for unforgivable things’

Summary

How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Emily Atack: ‘I’ve forgiven people for unforgivable things’

Podcast Release Date: May 27, 2026
Host: Elizabeth Day
Guest: Emily Atack

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Episode Overview

In this powerful and candid episode, Elizabeth Day welcomes actress, comedian, and writer Emily Atack to “How To Fail.” Together, they dive into Emily’s three core “failures,” exploring themes of self-worth, boundaries, emotional regulation, and forgiveness. Emily shares the personal and professional challenges she’s faced—from being typecast and objectified as a young actress, to overcoming trauma and finding her voice. The conversation is rich with vulnerability, humor, and honesty, with Emily reflecting on how these failures have ultimately shaped her strength and success.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On Boundaries and Relatability

[04:05 – 06:23]

• Learning about boundaries: Emily discusses how understanding boundaries, especially through therapy in her 30s, changed her relationships and self-care:
  “Boundaries are something that I didn’t grow up with. … Therapy for me has always been a massive thing. And boundaries is the first thing that I learned about in therapy.” (Emily Atack, 04:23)
• Relatability & lack of boundaries: Elizabeth reflects that Emily's openness and lack of boundaries are part of her appeal and warmth—making her “so relatable and loved.”
• Struggles on TV: Emily talks about the challenge of remaining impartial as a host and the tendency to emotionally engage with contestants, blurring professional and personal boundaries.

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2. Navigating Class & Upbringing

[06:23 – 09:50]

• Class identity: Emily recounts being described as “classless” due to her comfort in all social circles, and the unusual juxtaposition of her privileged yet normal upbringing:
  “I grew up in a household where class didn’t matter, your background didn’t matter.” (Emily Atack, 07:50)
• Show business family: Elizabeth details Emily’s creative lineage—daughter of Kate Robbins and session guitarist Keith Atack, and first cousin twice removed to Paul McCartney.
• Family stories: Emily shares childhood memories, including Beatles member Paul McCartney being an integral part of family life and John Lennon babysitting:
  “My mum grew up in Beatles mania. … One of her earliest memories was John Lennon babysitting them.” (Emily Atack, 09:26)

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3. Failure #1: Failing to Believe in Her Own Case

[11:02 – 20:12]

• Childhood labels: Emily explores how early family roles defined her—the "pretty one," overshadowing her intelligence and limiting her belief in her potential:
  “It was like I couldn’t have the brains because I was the tall blonde one that grew boobs really young.” (Emily Atack, 11:43)
• Finding her voice: She discusses gradual realization of her broader capabilities, especially after “I’m a Celebrity… Get Me Out of Here!”:
  “I wasn’t this tart that kind of had this… optic that had been painted for me. I just had more to give as a person, I think, which is what surprised people.” (Emily Atack, 13:51)
• Early trauma & resilience: In a vulnerable segment, she shares details of a traumatic adolescence: her parents splitting up, becoming pregnant while in an abusive relationship at 16, and being forced to become fiercely independent:
  “I just needed to pay the rent, so it was kind of like, I have to get this job. There’s no, there’s, you know, I can’t fail at this.” (Emily Atack, 17:43)
• Strength in adversity: Emily emphasizes her gratitude for these experiences, which fueled her drive and resilience.

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4. The Power of Sisterhood

[20:12 – 24:28]

• Emily and Martha: A moving exploration of Emily’s deep bond with her sister Martha, who is now her manager.
  “It’s an unbreakable bond between Martha and I and I would not have survived without Martha at all.” (Emily Atack, 21:00)
• Role reversal: The two sisters have alternately protected each other through life’s chaos, leading to a unique and supportive partnership.

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5. The Inbetweeners: Fame and Objectification

[24:41 – 32:22]

• Ambivalence about her breakout role: While the role of Charlotte in “The Inbetweeners” was a career springboard, Emily reflects on the downside—being treated as a pinup and subjected to sexual harassment:
  “There was the outer thing of being the pinup…and doing all that stuff. But…when social media started to really become a thing and people were writing about me…It was confusing. I didn’t understand.” (Emily Atack, 25:36)
• Coping mechanisms: Emily speaks about maintaining separation between her public persona and private life to retain her sanity and well-being.
• “Rivals” and new trust: Emily shares pride in her current role in Disney’s “Rivals,” noting it’s the first time she’s felt genuinely trusted as an actress:
  “With Rivals there is a particular trust that they have with me…They believe in me. And that has taken me 20 years almost.” (Emily Atack, 30:56)

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6. Failure #2: Failing to Emotionally Regulate

[33:49 – 42:33]

• Emotional transparency as both gift and flaw:
  “I make sure everybody knows how I’m feeling and I think it’s saved me over the years. I don’t bottle anything up. I wear my heart here, here, here, here, here, everywhere.” (Emily Atack, 34:01)
• Impact on relationships: She candidly describes patterns of dating troubled men and struggling to manage her reactions to rejection:
  “I could be about to do like the biggest job of my life…And if I get a text saying, sorry, babe, gotta cancel tonight, I would drop everything and go, I just can’t.” (Emily Atack, 35:33)
• Forgiveness: Emily discusses her capacity for forgiving “unforgivable things”—a recurring theme of healing and moving forward:
  “I have forgiven people for unforgivable things that they’ve done to me. And I believe that forgiveness is…it really is something you kind of have to find in yourself in order to…move on from something.” (Emily Atack, 36:54)
• Loneliness, secrets, and trauma: Emily discloses the profound impact of experiencing sexual assault at age 10 and the secrecy and loneliness this caused:
  “I was sexually assaulted, first of all, when I was 10. That was when I was first ever sexually assaulted. And that…I was treated badly…by older men from that age, like, throughout my life…I felt lonely and isolated.” (Emily Atack, 38:30)
• Internalized blame and unhealthy patterns: Emily details how these early experiences shaped her need for validation and complicated her adult relationships.

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7. Healing and Relationships: Motherhood and Alistair

[42:33 – 48:37]

• Meeting her partner: The story of Emily reconnecting with her now-fiancé, nuclear physicist Alistair Garner, after knowing each other as children:
  “We reconnected as adults, but kind of going, oh, we’ve got such a connection. … We decided from that moment…we were never gonna leave each other’s side.” (Emily Atak, 42:52; 44:01)
• Motherhood: Emily credits her son, Barney, with helping her heal, especially the way he looks at her with “pure, non-egotistical, non-salacious…beautiful” love.
  “Barney just looks at me in this pure, non egotistical, non salacious, pure beautiful way…I never have seen on anyone ever.” (Emily Atak, 48:10)
• Self-care: Becoming a mother has pushed Emily to “mother herself,” prioritize self-care, and view herself through a more compassionate lens.

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8. Body Image and the Pressures of Fame

[48:37 – 55:08]

• Mixed feelings: Despite appreciating her body’s strength (especially after childbirth), Emily admits persistent insecurity about weight, intensified by public scrutiny and trolling:
  “I still have a job to do and I still feel I’ve got a million insecurities about my weight. … I hate being called fat and overweight. It hurts me. It hurts my feelings…” (Emily Atak, 48:54; 50:43)
• Societal pressure: She discusses the contradiction between body positivity movements and her honest feelings of vulnerability around her appearance.
• Superficial reassurance: Emily articulates why comments like “you look great” don’t address the real issues for her:
  “For me, personally, I want to be smaller or I want to be…Even…I’m still looking at how many chins I’ve got on the monitor.” (Emily Atak, 54:23)
• Radical honesty: The conversation highlights the importance of honesty about body image, even when it goes against the grain of public messaging.

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9. Failure #3: Failing to Have and Keep Nice Things

[56:54 – 59:58]

• Chronic disorganization: Emily laughs about being unable to keep possessions nice or organized, contrasting herself with her ultra-together sister:
  “If I borrow something off you, you’re never seeing it again. And I can’t help it…people have had a go at me…But I think I’m just. I don’t have a materialistic bone in my body.” (Emily Atak, 57:03)
• Preference for giving: She loves buying gifts for others but doesn’t feel she deserves nice things herself.
• Small luxuries gone awry: The inside of an expensive handbag, she jokes, is more likely to hold a “baby bell from weeks ago” than elegance:
  “It’s got, like, an old baby bell in it from weeks ago…a pair of knickers in it.” (Emily Atak, 59:13)
• Authentic self-acceptance: Emily celebrates her inherent scattiness while recognizing areas for self-improvement.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On boundaries:
  “Part of who I am will always be that I forget the boundaries. But…it’s something I really, really try to…practice.” (Emily Atak, 04:23)
• On shame and secrets:
  “I was sexually assaulted, first of all, when I was 10…That I remember being 10 years old, and from that moment, I was treated badly…by older men from that age, like, throughout my life.” (Emily Atak, 38:30)
• On forgiveness:
  “I have forgiven people for unforgivable things that they’ve done to me. And I believe that forgiveness is…it really is something you have to find in yourself.” (Emily Atak, 36:54)
• On motherhood:
  “Barney just looks at me in this pure, non egotistical…pure beautiful way…It’s really amazing.” (Emily Atak, 48:10)
• On fame and objectification:
  “There were so many situations…I remember particularly 11, 12, 13, when I really started to wear makeup and look a lot older…and I developed these sexual connections with much older men…which was a space that I felt quite powerful and not lonely.” (Emily Atak, 38:30; 40:43)
• On body image and honesty:
  “I just really feel for us and I’m supportive of all this. That. Don’t get me wrong…But I will still go on holiday next week…in a bikini. And I will be called fat. I will. And I hate it.” (Emily Atak, 52:29)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Emily’s background & family context: 01:37–09:50
• Failure #1 (Believing in her own case): 11:02–20:12
• Sisterhood and Martha’s role: 20:12–24:28
• ‘The Inbetweeners’ and media objectification: 24:41–32:22
• Failure #2 (Emotional regulation, trauma, and forgiveness): 33:49–42:33
• Relationship with Alistair and story of motherhood: 42:33–48:37
• Body image struggles: 48:37–55:08
• Failure #3 (Keeping nice things): 56:54–59:58

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Conclusion

Emily Atack’s conversation with Elizabeth Day is deeply moving, laced with humor, heartbreak, and resilience. Her willingness to “overshare” delivers a powerful message about the complexity of failure, the ongoing work of self-acceptance, and the healing power of honesty and close relationships. Whether she’s discussing the chaos of her handbag, her relationship with her body, or childhood trauma, Emily demonstrates extraordinary vulnerability—a reminder that “a fail shared is a fail halved.”

Transcript

[Emily Atak]

I just needed to pay the rent, so it was kind of like, I have to get this job. There's no, there's, you know, I can't fail at this. But Rivals is just allowing me to go in and do my job and do it well. I remember somebody saying to me when I was younger, nobody's coming to save you. And I've never actually told anybody this.

[Elizabeth Day]

This episode of how to Fail is brought to you by Dove Whole Body Deodorant. Welcome to how to Fail, the podcast that firmly believes failure is what makes us human. Before we get this conversation, please do remember to like, follow and subscribe so that you never miss a single episode.

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[Emily Atak]

so good, so good, so good.

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[Elizabeth Day]

Emily Atak was raised in Bedfordshire, the daughter of an actress and a musician, and also, somewhat surprisingly, the first cousin twice removed of Sir Paul McCartney. She grew up surrounded by people who made their living in show business, so when she left school at 16, she was confident, she later said, that she wouldn't need a GCSE for what she wanted to do. This, it turned out, was acting, and she was proved right, landing her first audition playing a footballer's girlfriend in the TV show Blue Murder. But it was as Charlotte Hinchcliffe in the smash hit comedy the In Betweeners that she became famous. Atak was 17 when she got the part, which for many years would come to define her for good and for bad. She found herself on the COVID of magazines and ushered into the VIP areas of nightclubs, but also faced an overwhelming level of sexual harassment, experiences later recounted in her BBC documentary Asking for It. In 2018, she was the runner up in I'm a Celebrity and started focusing on comedy with an ITV sketch show and Stand Up Tall. It was a Pivotal moment both professionally and personally. In 2022, she started dating a childhood friend, the nuclear physicist Alistair Garner. The couple are now engaged with a baby boy who is almost two. Motherhood, Atak says, has made her feel I'm now living for something other than myself. And a tech is enjoying an on screen resurgence too. Back playing the fabulous Sarah Stratton on Disney's hit drama Rivals, as well as co hosting a new ITV game show, Nobody's fool with Danny Dyer. Described as a strategic reality quiz, Nobody's fool is designed to test the contestants intelligence, or rather who they think is is the smartest out of all of them. Although she was meant to stay impartial, Atak says she found it hard not to root for the contestants. I got emotional at the very end, she said. I do find that hard. The boundaries. Emily Atak. Welcome to how to Fail.

[Emily Atak]

I'm not meant to be crying yet. God, you're so lovely. That's such a lovely introduction. Thank you.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's a pleasure.

[Emily Atak]

Bang on every single detail.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's a real relief because that never happens.

[Emily Atak]

There's always something that people kind of, you know, get right. That's amazing. Thank you.

[Elizabeth Day]

No, thank you for being here. And you've had such an extraordinary career and you're still so young because you started so young. Yeah. And congratulations on everything that's been happening for you lately. I wanted to end on that quote about boundaries because it's something I struggle with too. Oh, God. Talk to me about boundaries, Emily.

[Emily Atak]

I mean, what a way to kick it off. Amazing. It's some boundaries. As something that I've learned definitely later, in my 30s, early 30s, I would say boundaries are something that I didn't grow up with. And that has. That was a kind of a beautiful thing and a terrible thing all at the same time. And I've learned maybe, I think maybe now that we are, that mental health is more of a discussion in life. You know, people are having therapy a lot more and, and being honest about that. And therapy for me has always been a massive thing. And boundaries is the first thing that I learned about in therapy. So part of who I am will always be that I forget the boundaries. But I'm really. It's something I really, really try to every, every day practice having my own boundaries and not worrying about upsetting people. When you create those boundaries, I mean,

[Elizabeth Day]

I know we're going to unpack some of this more deeply in your failures, but I also think it's so interesting because your lack of boundaries is possibly what also Makes you so relatable and loved because you are phenomenally gorgeous, which can actually be quite intimidating and it can create this distance, but maybe it must be quite sort of difficult. It must have been difficult to travel that line. And especially when you're doing something like Nobody's fool, which is such a brilliant premise.

[Emily Atak]

Thank you.

[Elizabeth Day]

And where you have to maintain this sort of Persona, where you're not showing emotions. So how hard was that?

[Emily Atak]

They really did sort of spot that early on that I didn't have favourites as such, but I was very bad at playing the host in that way of being completely kind of impartial. Being at the helm of a show like that with lovely Dani, part of the reason why they chose us is probably because we are personable and, you know. But, yeah, I really did have to kind of learn that it's a game and there is lots of money involved and people take it very, very seriously.

[Elizabeth Day]

And it's fascinating because the first episode, although the premise is that they have to choose which one they think is the smartest, it struck me how much of it is also about class, because the first episode, the first exercise, the sort of posh, white, older bloke who went to Eton is automatically just assumed to be the cleverest. Yeah. And I'm interested in class. And Rivals is also all about class.

[Emily Atak]

Absolutely.

[Elizabeth Day]

So have you always been interested in class?

[Emily Atak]

Always. It fascinates me because I grew up, I've always been in a very unusual position with class. A journalist once described me as classless and at first I sort of went, oh, what do you mean by that? But then what she meant was, what I mean by that is that you can't really kind of put you in any of them because you're relatable and personable to every kind of class. And I think I grew up in a very mixed way like that. Even though my parents were who they were, and we were privileged in a lot of ways, and we had a big, beautiful house and we went on nice holidays, but we didn't go to private school. We. They were very much. My parents were very set on raising us as kind of normally as possible. I hung around with, like, lads in puffer jackets and that, all smoked weed in their cars, you know, it was like, you know, like people just do nothing. The show, the amazing show, it was like that. Like, I literally grew up, so I was kind of known to my friends like that as the posh girl. So then as I kind of grew up and left school and started working, I actually realized I Wasn't the posh girl at all having pals, no matter what background they came from. I just genuinely didn't care about what background they were from. So, yeah, I grew up in a household where class didn't matter, your background didn't matter.

[Elizabeth Day]

And I mentioned that your mother's an actress and your father's a musician. Now, just to give them their due, your mother is Kate Robbins, who provide a lot of the voices for Spitting Image and wrote the song Surprise, Surprise.

[Emily Atak]

He did.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's so amazing. And your dad was a guitarist for Bonnie Tyler.

[Emily Atak]

Yes, for 30 years.

[Elizabeth Day]

Incredible. Bonnie Tyler, formerly of this parish. She was formerly on How To Fail. Now your parents are amazing. I want to hear about Paul McCartney.

[Emily Atak]

Yeah, fair dues. Fair enough.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is he around for a Sunday barbecue?

[Emily Atak]

Well, I'm sure he's the one that goes around bragging that he's my cousin. I'm sure. But yeah, no, he was very much a part of my childhood. He's a lovely man and he's a family man. And so the relation is he's first cousins with my Grandma Betty, who's not with us anymore, but he very much. And he writes about my grandma in all his books and every opportunity he gets, he talks about my grandma because she was such. And my granddad, because they were such key figures in his life when he lost his mum really young. So he was very. Yeah, he was very much a part of my mum's childhood on Mount Road in that mad house. Oh, my God, so many memories in that house. The back door was always open. You know, people would be coming and going all the time. And yes, my mum grew up in Beatles mania. And it was. She said it was just the most insane thing. She said one of her earliest memories was John Lennon was babysitting them. Paul and John would kind of come around and babysit them whilst my grandma and grand had worked in the pub. So, yeah, it was an interesting childhood for my mum and really unusual and creative and insane.

[Elizabeth Day]

Were they good babysitters?

[Emily Atak]

Apparently so, yeah. Yeah, they were. And mum, Paul, he was like a s. He was a bit older and I think. Cause my grandma was quite a lot older than him. He kind of really saw her as like an auntie figure, really growing up. For me, he was hugely a part of my childhood. I remember Linda really well. She used to take us out on her horses. They used to have beautiful, amazing acres of land that we'd all play on. And actually, I remember once arriving at his house for Sunday lunch and he said, oh, you've just missed Michael Jackson. And I was just like. I was kicking, I was fuming. And he was, sorry. Is it not enough that, you know, you relate to a Beatle? I was like, no, I want to meet Michael Jackson. But, yeah, so that was for. And then. And he had New Year's Eve parties all the time and. Yeah. Huge part of my childhood. Incredible, Incredible.

[Elizabeth Day]

Let's get back to you because this is what this is about. And your failures, there's so much in them that I want to get straight onto them. Thank you so much for the effort that you've clearly put into thinking about this. It means a lot to me. Your first failure, as you put it. I have failed to believe in my own case.

[Emily Atak]

Yes. So I. I can't remember how this started, really, but I. I just remember being very little and thinking that I couldn't do things. I don't know why I. It was. I think. I think if I'm being really blunt and honest. So there was me, Martha and George. I was the pretty one, Martha was the clever one, George was the naughty one. Right, that. Not completely, but if we're just in a nutshell, kind of seeing that, I think that's. I think for young girls particularly, this is where it starts, where if you are sort. I mean, Martha was beautiful, don't get me wrong.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes. These are the labels you were given.

[Emily Atak]

Yes. But it was like I couldn't have the brains because I was the tall blonde one that grew boobs really young. And all the boys fancied me and I fancied the boys and I played Kiss Chase with all the boys when I was younger and I was obsessed with boys. I was a boy mad. I feel like adults without meaning to, and family members, they kind of. They create these roles for you so they become comfortable to you. So I think I lent in to that and I think that, okay, I knew I was the tall, pretty one that Mum and Dad were proud to sort of physically show me off. And whilst Martha was playing on her little, you know, she would be looking at bugs in the corner on her little. I say, I don't even know what they're called. Microscope. Yeah, microscope. That'll do. I mean, that sounds terrible, but I think for girls, that's kind of where that begins a little bit. So I always kind of thought that that was all I was capable of, just standing there looking nice and being charming and, you know, being flirtatious and that was kind of my thing. And so when I realized as I got older that I had so much more to offer. It took a long time for me to be brave enough to actually say, I've got more to offer. But then at the same time, those things worked for me for a very long time. But over the years, I have found that when I have pushed myself and done things that people have really rolled their eyes out and gone, you won't be able to do that. I've always surprised people and I've always surprised myself and gone, oh, actually, I can do that. Even when it came to doing I'm a celebrity to get me out of here, you know, I. I was always sort of seen before that as the sort of pinup of the in betweeners and, you know, the school girl, the girl next door posing in lads mags. And people didn't know who I was as a person. So I really enjoyed taking off that mask on. I'm a celeb. Cause you have to. There's nowhere to hide in there. And I think, yeah, people got to know me as a person and realized that I did have more interesting things to say. And I don't know what word to use without saying it, but I wasn't this tart that kind of had this, you know, this kind of optic that had been painted for me. I mean, I'm still a tart. I've kind of. I kind of love that word and I kind of want to own it, but, like, I just. I just had more to give as a person, I think, which is what surprised people. It's terrible that it does surprise people.

[Elizabeth Day]

Your career trajectory is so interesting because it happened at a certain time, sort of pre. Me too, and during pre social media and also during a time when we're kind of still there, but where we didn't allow women to be more than one thing. So that childhood label became crushing in its way. And you were very good at it. And I would love to go back to that moment when you were 16, when you left school and you moved to London with Martha, your younger sister, and decided you were gonna make it as what was going on for you at that time.

[Emily Atak]

It's funny, my heart races when I think about being 16. I was a very troubled teenager, and I find that very difficult to talk about because I was such a loved child and we were encouraged to be creative and we were so privileged in so many ways. But there were a lot of. A lot of things that went on in my childhood that really scarred me and have traumatized me, really.

[Elizabeth Day]

I'm sorry.

[Emily Atak]

And people underestimate families splitting up as well. So When I was 16, my mum and dad split up. They're great friends now, and it's all fine now, but at the time, it was really awful. And my brother was only 13 and Martha was 15, and my mum, God love her, she couldn't cope. It was really, really difficult. And so my dad had moved out of the family home and my mum decided she needed to get away for a while. And I. So, yeah, Martha and I moved into a flat together and my brother George went to live with my aunt and uncle. And it sounds. So. It sounds awful. And I tread very carefully because my parents are amazing, beautiful, wonderful people who loved us so much. But this was a very difficult time. And my mum, bless her, she just couldn't cope. And I, as a mother now and as an adult, I. I get it now. And I was very angry at the time. It was all very scary and very awful because I was such a troubled teen. My poor parents, they just didn't know what to do with me a lot of the time. And I was hanging around in the wrong crowds. I was sexually active with older boys and men, and that was very difficult for my parents. And so I remember when my dad left, I remember at the time, and I've never actually told anybody this, I was pregnant and I was very young, and I was in this awful, abusive, horrible relationship, and I fell pregnant. And it was just in the middle of all this kind of stuff going on with my mum and dad. And I remember. I remember because all of that awful stuff was going on and obviously the pregnancy didn't. I've never spoken openly about how or what happened, and I don't know if I'm ready to yet. But obviously that pregnancy didn't continue.

[Elizabeth Day]

God, I'm so sorry for everything you were going through at this point.

[Emily Atak]

And so my family was kind of falling apart and that was happening, and I just felt very determined. So when we moved into this flat, I remember little Martha looking at me and going, what are we gonna do? And I said, I'm gonna become a famous actress. I just said it. I just made sure that I did. And as I say, my parents are amazing people and they. I don't. I don't berate them in any way for this. Everybody makes mistakes, and this was just a period of time where lots of mistakes were being made. But now, as a mother, I understand. And also, those mistakes, I think actually they've led me to be where I am now because I think a lot of people think that I had it all handed to me on a plate because of who my parents were, because my mum was an actress. But I did it by myself. I really did. And in the middle of, you know, doing. Of being in these abusive, horrible relationships, just trying to kind of. I wanted to be with somebody, you know, I wanted to be looked after. And so I was. I was going out with all these awful guys and doing all that. I was trying to make a life for me and Martha and, And yeah, and it sounds, as I'm saying it out loud, it does. I really don't want people to think my parents are terrible, terrible people. They really aren't. And I love them so much. And we have the most amazing relationship and I do think it made us all stronger as a family. And I do thank them for it because I genuinely don't think that I would have had that strength and the fearlessness. Cause I went into my first ever audition, like you said in the introduction, which nobody really knows about this. I went into my first ever, just completely. There was not a care in the world about what I looked like. I didn't feel self conscious. I just needed to pay the rent. So it was kind of like, I have to get this job. There's no, there's, you know, I can't fail at this. And I got the part and I. And it was from there, I mean, cocky as anything. Cause, you know, from there the in betweeners came very quickly and I was earning money and I just started. I started working and Martha passed her driving test a bit later on and started driving me to auditions. And. Yeah, so it was always me and. Me and Martha against the world.

[Elizabeth Day]

Thank you so much for. I mean, what a strong, strong person you are. That is a phenomenal story.

[Emily Atak]

I haven't told anybody those things.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, I feel honored that you have told me that. Thank you. And I just want to reassure you, it comes across loud and clear how much you love your parents.

[Emily Atak]

Yes, I do.

[Elizabeth Day]

You and Martha, it's one of the most special relationships I think I've ever had the privilege of researching on this podcast. Your younger sister is now your manager. She's an extraordinary agent for other people, including me. She's head of unscripted TV at Curtis Brown major agency. She's made a phenomenal success of her life. I wonder. We very rarely get a chance on this pod to talk about sisters. Will you talk about how important your sister is?

[Emily Atak]

Wow. I mean, it's, it's, it's an unbreakable bond between Martha and I and it's, it's something that I. I could. I would not have survived without Martha at all. And she. I think when we were little and we were growing up, I did everything I could to protect her. And again, not just from the madness and the chaos of what was our lives. And bless Martha, she was the middle child, so she wanted organization and structure and routine. I didn't give a shit about that and nor did my naughty little brother. We liked the fact that mum and dad would sometimes sleep in and we missed the alarm for school. That was great to us. But to Martha, that really, she hated all of that. And so I really did my best to protect Martha from a lot of things. And I think now she's just. It's almost like she repays. She's repaying the favor, you know, and she now looks after me and my career and my life. And it's just so funny looking at us from being children to then going into our teenage years, which is when she started to notice that I wasn't the most stable older sister in the world. I was very vulnerable and I was very chaotic and I made some terrible decisions, actually, you know, thankfully, thing she was able to watch, look at my behavior and realize, God, I don't want to do that. When shit hits the fan, when bad things happen, when we're grieving, when a family member passes away or something, that's when I switch back into older sister mode and I go, right, okay, I'm going to sort this out. It's going to be fine. But yes, day to day, she. I mean, she knows when my period is. I have to ask her when I'm due on my period. I literally rang her the other day and I said, I was like, I haven't got my period yet. I'm like, she's like, no, you're not due on for another couple of days. I'm like, that's amazing. Mental. Insane.

[Elizabeth Day]

She does that for all her clients. Yeah, Greg James.

[Emily Atak]

Yeah, exactly. He really needs to know when his period is. I remember when we decided that it was time to separate and I had to go off and live. She met a lovely person who she had a really long, wonderful relationship with. They were going to move in together and I was gonna go off and, you know, go into the sunset and make the big time, you know, it was kind of that. And I remember the day I left the flat and it was. I find it so hard to talk about. We've never spoken about it because it was just too much. It was too. It was. I couldn't. We Couldn't say goodbye. And I just. I went, right, see ya. And I just turned around. I just turned around and I kept walking. And I didn't look behind me. But it was a really important moment because it was. I knew she was safe and I knew I could leave her there. God, I knew she'd be okay. And she knew I was okay.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Emily Atak]

And it was just this unspoken thing. We didn't hug, we didn't say goodbye. I just got in a van with all my stuff and I just. And I. And I just left. And we both knew it was gonna be. We were gonna be okay. So it was a big moment for us. Bless you. Thanks. Thank you.

[Elizabeth Day]

So beautiful.

[Emily Atak]

We've been taught that love by our parents, our wonderful, mental, creative, insane parents, who we just love so much. I really wouldn't change any of that.

[Elizabeth Day]

And it was also the time when you are on the in betweeners.

[Emily Atak]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

And do tell me if you're sick of talking about this.

[Emily Atak]

Oh, no, it's fine.

[Elizabeth Day]

Because it was such a massive cultural shift for so many of us, that program, and for you, just in the context of what we're talking about here about underestimating your capabilities, I wonder how ambivalent you ended up feeling about that role. Because on the one hand, it catapults you into this sort of stardom, and you are brilliant in it and funny and talented, and on the other, you also are treated by a misogynistic culture really horrendously, which probably feeds into all of that trauma that you had from an early age. So I wonder, how do you feel now looking back at that period of your life and that role in particular?

[Emily Atak]

Well, I think I loved playing that role and I loved all the attention I was getting and not the negative stuff, but I loved that it had catapulted me. And I was getting invited to all these cool parties and all these, like, really hot men wanted to go out with me. And I would get. Me and all my friends, we'd go to all these nightclubs and, you know, we'd get all the best tables and they'd bring over the big, massive bottles of vodka with fireworks in them, you know? Do you know what I mean? And, yeah, and they were really fun. And I was able to kind of do that for my mates that, you know, they sort of loved having a mate that was on the telly. I didn't really have any telly friends at that point. It was all very much people I went to school with who were still my best friends now. And The. There was the outer. The outer thing of being the pinup and being on the front page of Loaded and FHM and doing all that stuff. But that, to me was just. That was just how I sold my work and that was very normal. And I enjoyed those photo shoots fine. I didn't think anything of it. I'd stand there in my pants, I'd break for lunch. My mum always came with me on those shoots and we'd sit around and I'd sit there in my knickers and have my lunch and then carry on. And then I'd go home, back to my flat in Bedfordshire and have all my mates over and then we'd all watch it on the telly. But I was very safe in my real life. I've just managed to always keep that really separate. So it was always quite jarring when I did see all these things out there, when social media started to really become a thing and people were writing about me in all these kinds of ways and I started getting all these kind of crazy messages of old men and people saying things to me in the street. I really did well to cotton wool myself from that when I wasn't in it, so. And, yeah, and I think that separation is kind of what saved me. Going mad, really, with it. So, yeah, it was always. It was confusing because I just didn't. I didn't see myself in that way. I remember, like, all the pictures of me and the In Betweeners. It was just. It was me in a school uniform. But people go, oh, yeah, the sexy schoolgirl uniform. I'm like, no, no, it's not fancy dress meant to be sexy. I'm just a schoolgirl playing a schoolgirl. I hadn't long left school when I started the In Betweeners, so I was just wearing a school uniform. So I didn't. I genuinely innocently didn't understand the sexual crassness that was linked to it. I really didn't. It was about the four boys entering, you know, entering their teenage years, trying to get off with girls. That. That was the. The premise of the show. And I know that, you know, it's peppered with the. The fit girl at school. It was kind of me and Emily Head were sort of, you know, the Emily Head who plays Carly, you know, we were the kind of the, you know, the bit of totty poster girls for it, I guess. But even that didn't. I didn't feel that there were. There was any. Anything sexually aggressive about that. It was just. That was just a bit of fun. It was A young, cool, sexy new show. The New Skins people were calling it. You know, so when it was. When it became aggressive, that's. It was confusing. I didn't understand. And also when I was kind of blamed for that behavior, that's what I didn't understand. Cause I was kind of like, hang on a minute. Because people are saying, well, if, you know, if you don't want to be treated like that, you shouldn't be wearing a really sexy schoolgirl outfit on tv. I'm like, that what? I'm playing a schoolgirl. I'm playing a role that means I have to wear a schoolgirl outfit. If that's then plastered on websites. And, you know, I remember there was like, deep fake porn sites even then with, like, my head on, you know, naked bodies, like, being done up the arse. And it's like you go. But with like a school tie on, like. And I just. I genuinely. I didn't understand that. I found that very confusing. Cause I was going, oh, is this my fault? Then? I'm kind of getting all this negative attention. I just. It was really confusing.

[Elizabeth Day]

I bet also, you were a teenager wearing a school uniform, playing that role. So there's this whole other dark added element to it that must have taken years to unravel in terms of your capabilities and how you're feeling about them now. I feel from an outside perspective that you are in an amazing, rich period of your professional and personal life, and you're just only going to keep going. And you're sort of on this really incredible trajectory to see you in Rivals. Just brilliant acting. I mean, we were chatting before we started recording. You're so good on that show.

[Emily Atak]

Thank you so much.

[Elizabeth Day]

Really, like, so funny, but also so moving. There's one particular scene that I'm gonna talk about again in the second episode of the second season of Rivals. It's this phenomenal dinner party scene. And you're pretending to cook it, but actually it's tagging it. And there's this moment where you move from laughter to tears to exasperation, to then having to gather yourself and walk into the dining room with a pot of stew. And I really did just sit there and think, that is amazing acting.

[Emily Atak]

Oh, thank you so much. I think it's be gonna. Cause I'm not acting.

[Podcast Sponsor Dove]

I think it's.

[Emily Atak]

Cause honestly, like, my whole life has been building up to that moment. And I think the reason why Sarah Stratton means so much to me is because it's the first time in my life, look, I've been given lovely opportunities and roles and I'm so grateful to the in betweeners and other jobs along the way that have really kind of put me up the ladder a little bit and But I do feel with Rivals there is a particular trust that they have with me that I've never had, that nobody has ever had with me before, which is they believe I can do it and they believe that I don't just have to be the girl that stands there in the corner not saying much. They've given me more to do. They've given me these beautiful scenes because they know I can do it. They believe in me. And that has taken me 20 years almost. I've jumped through so many hoops, I have. And don't get me wrong, I know I'm talking from a white middle, you know, white privileged position, but I have had snobbery over the years. People have been very snooty towards me because of, you know, the fact I've got blonde hair, boobs posed in lads mags, I wear fake tan eyelashes, I've always got a dodgy fake tan situation going on. But Rivals is just allowing me to go in and do my job and do it well.

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[Elizabeth Day]

Let's move on to your second failure. I fail to emotionally Regulate?

[Emily Atak]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

I've never had this failure before. It's so self aware.

[Emily Atak]

It's something that people love about me and it's also something about me that gets. It's got me into trouble over the years and I always sort of think back to childhood with things, and this is years of therapy, I think, but I always sort of think, where's that come from? That I've always. I've never had any problem with expressing how I feel. I make sure everybody knows how I'm feeling and I think it's saved me over the years. I don't bottle anything up. I wear my heart here, here, here, here, here, everywhere. And I hand my heart over on a little fluffy cushion and I go, just, just take it. Take Bin man could say to me, oh, hello, Em, you're right. And I'll go, oh, I've got the worst period pains ever. I just, maybe I've got endometriosis. Oh, God. I'm just, I'm really, I'm really, I've got all these pains and I just, honestly, I, I don't stop. I also am very reactive and I think a lot of this comes from men as well. Over the years, I've really failed to emotionally regulate when it comes to my relationship, my sexual relationships, who I'm dating, what's going on in that situation. And it's the kind of men that I've dated, I've always dated very problematic, troubled men who I'm trying to fix. And it's like, oh, let's be toxic together, let's try and fix each other. And then if something goes wrong in that relationship, I've reacted really massively like I could literally be. And obviously not now. I'm in a different situation now, but back in my dating days, I could have been in a. I could be about to do like the biggest job of my life, signing a huge contract. And if I get a text saying, sorry, babe, gotta cancel tonight, I would drop everything and I'd go, I've got to go home. I've got to go home. I just can't. I just can't. And I can't deal. I just cannot deal with that kind of rejection. I've, as I say, I've learned over the years to kind of manage that. But you know what really annoys me, really annoys me that I feel like all I've ever done is work on myself. I am exhausted with how much I've had to work on myself. People, not everybody does. And I think it's so Important to work on yourself. Because I'm the first person to admit when I. And like, like you said, I'm self aware. I'm so self aware. And I'm the first to admit when I'm too this or to that. And I do everything I can to try and change it, but people don't. Lots of people don't take responsibility for their failures.

[Elizabeth Day]

Oh my God.

[Emily Atak]

Do they?

[Elizabeth Day]

I hear you so deeply.

[Emily Atak]

I mean, I guess that's why this podcast is so great, because it's sort of. Of taking responsibility and going, this is what you know, this is what I've been bad at. This is what I failed at.

[Elizabeth Day]

Absolutely. I'm interested by something you said there about how you feel your ability to share emotionally has saved you at points. When's it saved you?

[Emily Atak]

I think people. People always know where they stand with me. So there's never. I never hold a grudge, ever.

[Elizabeth Day]

Wow.

[Emily Atak]

And people have. Yeah, well. And people have wronged me over the years, trust me. And this is where. Without sort of lowering the tone too much, but I have forgiven people for unforgivable things that they've done to me. And I believe that forgiveness is. It really. It's not just a cliche. It really is something you kind of have to find in yourself in order to, you know, move on from something that has maybe troubled you. And I do. I feel like my ability to forgive has done that. It doesn't really matter about their reaction. I know that I've cleansed myself of that. Growing up, I felt so lonely. I was lonely and I. And even though I was surrounded by people all the time and I was so loved, but I was so lonely. And I remember, and me and Martha and George, we bicker about this because their reality is very different. They don't remember feeling lonely. And they kind of go, why? And I'm like, I don't really know how to explain it. I just felt. I felt lonely. And so over the years, to me, building those connections, getting deep with people and like, even if I meet you in a toilet, you're my best friend, like forever. And that I think even though that's got me into trouble with my love life, I think it's enabled me to keep friends and have good friendships.

[Elizabeth Day]

One of the reasons a child might feel lonely is if they're keeping a secret or protecting someone from knowing the truth about something that has happened. Do you relate to that?

[Emily Atak]

Yes, completely. Because even I think I was keeping so much from my parents when I was young. Again, it's Going a bit. A little bit dark. But, like, I was sexually assaulted, first of all, when I was 10. That was when I was first ever sexually assaulted. And that I remember being 10 years old, and from that moment, I was treated badly, appallingly, by older men from that age, like, throughout my life. And I think the loneliness came a lot from that. And lots of things happened that my parents, to this day, still don't know the detail of how men have treated me and touched me and said things, whispered things to me in my ear when people aren't in earshot. And I think a lot of the loneliness stemmed from that and from that. I then developed a really unhealthy relationship with sexual and with boys because I kind of lent into that behavior a little bit. And I also found that I felt I knew I was wanted and desired by men from a really young age. Sexually desired. And that to me as a child, it's really confusing because you. I think I needed. I wanted to feel that I didn't want to do the sex stuff, but I liked that feeling of feeling wanted and validated and being called pretty. And, you know, I had crushes on older men who would then take advantage of that, but then sort of made me feel that that was a good thing. Like, there were so many situations from sort of, like, I remember particularly 11, 12, 13, when I really started to kind of wear makeup and look a lot older. And I was hanging around with lots of older people. I was sneaking out all the time. You know, my parents couldn't control me. I was just out the door. And I developed these sexual connections with much older men. And that was. It was a space where, even though I hated the sexual part of. Was a space that I felt quite powerful and not lonely.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Emily Atak]

So even the irony was that I felt lonely because. Because of the kind of. The attention I was getting from, like, a really, really young age that made me feel lonely and isolated because I didn't. My parents, whenever they did know about it, it was too difficult for them to kind of discuss. So then I just kind of internalized that, which made me quite lonely, but then weirdly lent into that behavior and found sexual connections with men to try and cancel out that loneliness, which doesn't really make sense.

[Elizabeth Day]

It makes complete sense. First of all, I'm so sorry and horrified that you went through that. And it's a testament to the woman that you are that you are sitting here today, successful, powerful, stable, with a beautiful family of your own. I just want to pay tribute to that because that requires an astonishing amount of work and drive. And it makes sense to me because there's something around safety here, isn't there? Or love. And if you are conditioned from such a young age to believe that the antidote to loneliness or a feeling of safety or a feeling of love comes with this sexual element with old men, then it completely. It does make logical sense that you didn't stand a chance. You were being manipulated. And I'm so sorry that you had to go through that.

[Emily Atak]

It's unusual. Yeah. It's very odd and it has, over the years, kind of. I've had quite an unusual relationship with sex and it's kind of. Yeah, it's been odd. But then to be a person who's highly kind of sexualized.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Emily Atak]

All of that simultaneously, like, it was really confusing. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Can we talk about Alistair?

[Emily Atak]

Yes, please. I love Alistair.

[Elizabeth Day]

Did I get that right? He's a nuclear physicist because some pieces describe him as a material scientist and I did single science gcse. So I've got no clue what either of those really means.

[Emily Atak]

Yeah, he's a nuclear physicist. He did his PhD on the corrosion performance of zirconium in nuclear reactors.

[Elizabeth Day]

Sorry.

[Emily Atak]

That's so cool. He's. Yeah, I hope I said that right. He's so cool. And he is a very key kind of ingredient in all of this. And he kind of ties my life up in a bow at the end. It's an interesting story with Al and I because we've known each other for 30 years. I remember meeting him when I was very young. I think I was about five years old when I met him. That might sound strange to some people, but, you know, we were just kids then and we would just play together. And so we reconnected as adults, but kind of going, oh, we've got such a connection. And it's like. It is a bit confusing and a bit odd, but we really fancy each other. And then, you know, and we were kind of going, yeah, but we're not allowed to fancy each other because my auntie is married to your dad. It's weird. And so there was. Obviously, there was all that kind of back and forth, but we kind of couldn't help it in the end.

[Blinds.com Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Also, we're not related.

[Windows 11 PC Advertiser]

No.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's like having a neighbor on the same street and they have a kid the same age and you play together and then that develops into.

[Emily Atak]

Exactly. And we remember each other from our childhoods and all of that. And I remember his beautiful brother Jim, who. Yeah. Who sadly passed away when he was 21. And so we are. And then Al lost his dad, Steve, just a couple of years ago. And I was there when Steve passed away. And it was then, in that moment, when Steve passed, that we decided that we were never gonna leave each other's side. Because what are we doing wasting this time? We're going through all these relationships, all these boyfriends and girlfriends that we don't want to be with, and we want to be together. And. Yeah, and we decided from. Literally from that moment. We call it the hug. There was a moment where just before Steve had passed away, and I sat with him, and I walked out into the corridor of the house, and Al just hugged me. And we didn't stop hugging for about 20 minutes. We just held each other for 20 minutes, not saying anything. And it was the first time I'd seen Al look so frightened and scared and alone. And I just. I hugged him. And then Steve died really shortly after that. And so we're bonded by this kind of grief, but also this strength of kind of spirituality, in a sense. I mean, he's a scientist, so he'd argue that slightly. But there's this really unusual and unbreakable bond Al and I have. And people find it strange and, you know. But I think when, you know, my stories is why I'm quite keen to sort of. Sort of tell all those details of my upbringing and all of that, because I think it makes a bit more sense as to why I've. I've decided that I need to be with Al and he needs to be with me, and we need each other. And he helped me kind of. Cause I remember somebody saying to me when I was younger, nobody's coming to save you, so you need to get a grip, and you need to, you know, try and find out a way to save yourself. And I just remember thinking that was so crushing when I was younger. But then when Al and I got together, someone said, yeah, Al saved you. I said, no, he helped me save myself. But he's the best, and he's really hot.

[Elizabeth Day]

He is. I can say that objectively.

[Emily Atak]

And now we've got Barney. And. Yes. And he is just the most hilarious little thing. And then it's funny, I look at him, look at Barney, and I'm just like, oh, he was always meant to be here. Barney was always meant to be here. Barney is like me. Barney's. It's almost like looking at me as a child and kind of just doing everything I can to correct the mistakes. Well, I'll make my own. I'M sure as a mother, but I just, I'm so lucky and that I've been blessed with Barney.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you think that becoming a mother to Barney has helped you mother yourself?

[Emily Atak]

Yes, completely. And it's helped me understand self care. It's helped me understand yet how important it is to look after yourself. And because you have to be this pillar of strength and be this stoic rock to this tiny little person. And he just loves me unconditionally. I've never seen anyone look at me the way Barney looks at me. And it's so special and magic and the irony that I've had people objectifying me my whole life and looking at me in a certain way. Whether it's, you know, the male gaze, men looking at me in a certain way, or it's people judging me or whatever. Barney just looks at me in this pure, non egotistical, non salacious, pure beautiful way that I'll never see on anyone ever. And I never have seen on anyone ever. And it's really amazing.

[Elizabeth Day]

Healing. Yes, healing male gaze that is so accepting and loving without question.

[Emily Atak]

Yeah, exactly. That I know. And he points at my body and goes, what? That boobies? And it's like, ah, I'll tell you when you're older. Yeah, but, yeah, he's just, he's just a blessing. I just adore him. And he just loves his milk and he loves baby bells and straightforward. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

I wouldn't normally ask this, I don't think, but. But because of everything you've been through and because of how you've been portrayed and how you've been seen, how do you feel about your body now?

[Emily Atak]

I love what it's been through and I love my caesarean scar. I wear it so proudly. And I look at my body very differently in that sense. But if I'm honest, I still have a job to do and I still feel I've got a million insecurities about my weight. And that will. I think that will always be there. And. And I really wish I could say that having a baby has given me this whole new attitude towards my weight and, you know, but having a baby has given me a different attitude in, in so many different ways with my body. But. But I still struggle with that. And I think women, there's a certain love language we have as women that all we do is talk about weight. That's all we do. That's all we do. And no matter how intelligent you are, no matter how much you like to think you don't care, you do, because we are conditioned to believe that it's such a huge part of our worth. And I have to admit, it's something that I will work on because I work on myself. But I find it really difficult. I hate being called fat and overweight. It hurts me. It hurts my feelings being called fat. Especially when you've been sexually objectified. It's sadly, I, I, I. You. I sort of go, well, I'm either one or the other. I'm either somebody that men say they want to spunk on, or it's. It's that I know. I'm too. She's. She's too fat. Oh, no, she. She's. She needs to lose weight. Look at her. Who ate all the pies? It's like when I just had a baby. It was ruthless. It was awful. So, yes, I hate being called fat. I hate it. And I wish I could say I don't care, but I hate it. It hurts my feelings.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you know what, Emily? I'm so glad that you said that.

[Emily Atak]

Thanks.

[Elizabeth Day]

Because I think that people need to remember that when they are saying those things without really thinking them through and believing that you can take it because you're famous. Gorgeous Emily. Atak. Actually, it's so important to have a reminder. This hurts me.

[Emily Atak]

It hurts.

[Elizabeth Day]

And I'm not making it into a feminist issue, and I'm not politicizing it. It just hurts me, Emily, because of everything that you have been through. I think it's so important that you said that.

[Emily Atak]

Thank you. And I think we're so. We're now having to do the thing, aren't we, of being strong about weight and kind of going, you know, oh, fuck. Fuck the patriarch. We should, you know, we should just own our curvy bodies and we should, you know, any body's a bikini bott. And I love. It's so incredible. And I feel so sorry for us as women, actually feeling like we. We're so traumatized by, by this subject that we feel that we have to get together on mass and we have to build this community of telling everyone to piss off when it's about weight and that I'm gonna own my curves and I'm. I don't care. You know, I don't need to be skinny. I don't. But actually, it's. I just really feel for us and I'm supportive of all this. That. Don't get me wrong. But I am just being really honest and saying, yeah, that's great. But I will still go on holiday next week, and I will be packed In a bikini. And I will be called fat. I will. And I will hate it. And I will put a picture up on Instagram in a bikini and go. And I'll find the right angle where I look, how I want to look, and I'll be happy with that. And I'll watch the likes rolling, and I'll watch the lovely comments come in going, oh, you look great.

[Red Bull Advertiser]

And.

[Emily Atak]

But there will be a cesspit and a pool of awful comments when paparazzi pictures come out, or, you know. Cause they deliberately get the worst angles they can. And it will all be about how fat I am. And that is really gonna sting. And it always has done. And I hate it. And it feels. I get embarrassed. Being called fat makes me feel really unattractive, and it makes me feel unsexy. And I feel it. Yeah, I feel embarrassed. And I don't. I. I don't want my body all over the Internet, but with people saying. With people saying that. So maybe. Maybe there's a world in which where I am on those covers of magazines where everything is Photoshopped and everything is. Everything is, you know, edited, and it's a version of yourself that you are happy with. Maybe that's just a more comfortable place for me to be.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah. I also want to make it clear because I don't want there to be any room for misunderstanding here. I know that what you're saying is not that you think fat in and of itself is bad. You're saying, as it pertains to you, when people troll you by using that word, it has a particular cadence for you.

[Emily Atak]

Yes, completely. This is exactly it. I'm not speaking on behalf of any other woman other than myself and my own body in this particular instance, because there are complexities about being called fat for me that just really trigger me.

[Elizabeth Day]

Does it help? Because my husband has spoken about this on this podcast, actually, about his body dysmorphia.

[Emily Atak]

Right.

[Elizabeth Day]

And he says, it doesn't help him when I say, you look great, you look amazing. He's like, that doesn't help. It does help me. It's really interesting, and I was really proud of him for opening up about it. Does it help when people say, you look great?

[Emily Atak]

No. I mean,

[Elizabeth Day]

in a way, I think what that does. It makes it a superficial issue, and actually, it's deeper.

[Emily Atak]

Yeah. I sometimes want to say when people are like, but you. But you're lovely where you are now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But for me, personally, I want to be smaller or I want to be. And even I could be doing the best work of my life, but I'm still looking at how many chins I've got on the monitor. You know, it's like. But that's because I just don't want people to say it to me. It just hurts my feeling. You know, there are. There are certain insults that people just can't take and that are just really awful. And that is just one of them for me. And I want to be a good role model and a positive role model, but I'm just being honest.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah, you are such an amazing role model because of that honesty, because of the effort that it costs you. And you know what? 99% of women listening to this will relate. And it's probably one of those things that comes with time and comes with age. Bring it on.

[Emily Atak]

Yeah. Yeah, like that.

[Elizabeth Day]

Peace with our. With our physical selves.

[Emily Atak]

Yeah,

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[Emily Atak]

Done.

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[Emily Atak]

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[Elizabeth Day]

Let's move on to your final failure, which is I fail to have and keep nice things.

[Emily Atak]

Oh, yeah?

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, so what. What kind of things?

[Emily Atak]

So I. I feel like when we were growing up, Martha was Martha. Whenever we'd like Go somewhere like on holiday, on a trip. Martha always had like a perfect little suitcase with her little toiletry compartments. She's got one of those really grown up toiletry bags with compartments in it. And I remember looking at that, like we got in there using all her stuff, putting it all on and just like, I'm that person. Like if I'm on holiday, I lose everything. I lose everybody else's things. I turn up hungover with a bag of. Just like, oh, just the bits that I need. And that's kind of it. Obviously I'll just shove a load of shit in the bag and then that's me done. I believe that. I, I don't deserve nice. I don't deserve expensive nice things. I don't know why. And Al says it's, it's something he's really noticed about me. Like I, I love buying things for other people. I love giving people presents. It sounds like I'm trying to be all like Mother Teresa, but like I love spoiling people. I don't feel like I deserve nice things and I can't. And also don't, don't get me nice things because I can't keep them nice. And I can't. I'll. I lose everything. It's the Bermuda Triangle of my life. If you come, if I borrow something off you, you're never seeing it again. And I can't help it, you know, and people have, over the years, they've had a go at me and said it's, yeah, it's disrespectful of other people's things. I'm like, yeah, I know that now. And I, I should, I should be better. But I just, I think I'm just. I don't have a materialistic bone in my body.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah. Yes.

[Emily Atak]

So I don't care. I don't care if I lose my phone.

[Elizabeth Day]

Don't care.

[Emily Atak]

Wow. Don't care.

[Elizabeth Day]

What's the nicest thing you've ever bought yourself?

[Emily Atak]

Well, probably my house. Yes, my. And my mom's house. I bought my mom's house for her, which is the, the most, the biggest privilege in the world that I can do that. But again, it's, it's all very much for other people. I still don't really know how to buy myself anything nice. I've got a few nice handbags now.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay.

[Emily Atak]

But, but that's kind of it. I don't. But also my handbag, I've got, I've got a nice handbag next to me down here. But wait till I show You. What's inside it?

[Elizabeth Day]

I can't wait to see it.

[Emily Atak]

It's got, like, an old baby bell in it from weeks ago. And, like, it's. I think it actually does have a pair of knickers in it.

[Elizabeth Day]

Oh, Emily, I never want you to change.

[Emily Atak]

I. I only want you to change,

[Elizabeth Day]

like, make your life better in. In if you ever need it to. But I just. I never want you to lose this. It's so special and so unique and so authentic and so lovable.

[Emily Atak]

Thank you. You. I mean, my mum drew the line a bottle of. A bottle. You know, those little mini bottles of wine. I. I was kind of saying, no, I'm. I'm off the booze at the minute, I'm off the ale. I'm. I'm doing a couple of weeks, you know, being. Being good. And then I put my bag on the floor and she said, what the hell is it? And it was an empty. One of those little bottles. Little bot for the gern and I,

[Elizabeth Day]

you know, a little bot for the journ.

[Emily Atak]

That's one of Greg's favorite phrases that Greg James is. But, yeah. Yes. So I am that. I'm that person. I'm scatty and I'm very disorganized, but I like to treat people. I don't know how to treat myself. I'm that person that. You go on holiday. You go on holiday with me, and within minutes, the towels are covered in fake tan. There's stuff everywhere. It's like my aim just to see on how much I can shit up a hotel room really quickly, but I don't mean to. And everyone's like, emily, oh, you sound

[Elizabeth Day]

so fun to go on holiday with, though. Listen, what an absolute delight and a privilege it's been for me to talk to you.

[Emily Atak]

Oh, no, thank you. Thank you. Me too. Thank you. And as I say, yeah, I am an open book and I do wear my heart up my sleeve and I hope nothing I've said gets me into trouble, but I think it's important to talk and it's important to share, and I'll always be an overshare. That's just who I am.

[Elizabeth Day]

Never change. I appreciate you so much for it. Thank you so much, Emily, for coming on how to Fail.

[Emily Atak]

Thank you.

[Elizabeth Day]

Thank you so much for listening and watching. This episode has been brought to you by Dove Whole Body Deodorant. Please do follow how to fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.

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