Podcast Summary: How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Guest: Gugu Mbatha-Raw

Episode Title: ‘Have I ever worked with an awful co-star? Maybe one or two’

Date: March 5, 2025

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and inspiring episode, actress Gugu Mbatha-Raw joins Elizabeth Day to discuss the transformative power of failure in her own life and career. True to the show’s mission, Gugu explores three significant failures—her early dreams of ballet, her creative love for painting, and her restless drive—sharing how each has shaped her artistry, perspective, and ongoing success. Through candid conversation, she reflects on her upbringing, creative process, industry experiences, and the lessons learned from setbacks.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Meaning of Her Name and Identity (04:11–06:32)

• Origin & Pride: Gugu explains that her name is a shortened form of "Gugulethu," meaning "our pride" in Zulu.
  • Quote: “You gotta be proud of it.” (04:30, Gugu Mbatha-Raw)
• Father’s Influence: She recalls her father's wisdom, emphasizing resilience:
  • Quote: “Great men try and fail, but they never fail to try.” (04:43, Gugu Mbatha-Raw)
• Her Father's Story: Gugu shares how her father's experience as a South African political refugee shaped her worldview.
  • UNHCR helped her father secure a visa as he fled apartheid-era South Africa, something Gugu learned later in life. (06:09–06:32)

2. Choosing Complex Female Roles & Industry Change (06:32–09:12)

• Role Selection: Gugu describes her attraction to roles that explore identity and women grappling with societal power dynamics, intentionally seeking stories shaped by the “female gaze.”

• Industry Evolution: As an executive producer on Surface (Apple TV), she observes the increased diversity behind the camera and senses her own growth aligning with industry shifts.

  • Quote: “For me, you can have a great female role, but it can still be with the male gaze…With those directors, it very much felt like it was the female gaze.” (09:26, Gugu Mbatha-Raw)

3. Failure 1: Her Dream of Being a Ballet Dancer (10:21–15:13)

• Early Passion & Disappointment: After years of intense ballet training, Gugu failed her elementary ballet exam at age 15—the first significant failure for a high-achieving child.

  • Quote: “I’d always got distinction from all my other ballet grades. And I did my elementary and I failed. And I was 15, and…that was tough.” (12:42, Gugu Mbatha-Raw)

• Redirection & Growth: The experience led her to reconsider her creative path, eventually guiding her towards acting.

  • Quote, Elizabeth Day: “Any rejection is redirection.” (13:58)

• Legacy of Movement: Gugu elaborates how her dance training still influences her presence and physicality as an actor.

4. Failure 2: Not Becoming a Painter (25:49–32:58)

• Early Love for Art: Growing up inspired by British artists, Gugu once considered a career in painting, even applying to Goldsmiths but was rejected.

• Return to Painting: During the pandemic hiatus from filming Loki, she rekindled her passion for painting as a means of creative solace and expression—with a notable focus on painting portraits of friends and figures impacted by Black Lives Matter.

  • Quote: “I started painting...and it felt like it was my creative expression in that time of having all of this creative energy that couldn't go anywhere with the acting.” (27:08, Gugu Mbatha-Raw)

• Processing Tragedy Through Art: She painted portraits of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, auctioning her work to benefit charities.

  • Quote: “It just felt like that was a way also of slowing down everything that was seemingly happening in the world and just…metabolize those ideas.” (29:07, Gugu Mbatha-Raw)

• The Act of Portraiture: She delves into the intimate, almost meditative space of capturing another’s likeness and how it relates to her acting practice.

5. Navigating the Acting Industry: Typecasting and Choices (33:39–36:39)

• Resistance to Categorization: Gugu reflects on moments post-Belle where she felt frustrated playing “the wife” roles, leading her to deliberately seek more substantial, nuanced characters.
  • Quote: “I made a promise after those films that I wasn’t going to play any more wife roles in that way.” (35:55, Gugu Mbatha-Raw)

6. On-Set Culture & Co-Stars (36:39–38:51)

• The Impact of Leadership: Asked if she’s ever worked with a difficult co-star, Gugu admits to “maybe one or two,” describing the ripple effect of negative behavior on set and the responsibility of lead actors to create a positive environment.
  • Quote: “Everybody’s looking to you to set the tone…If you allow a certain kind of energy or behavior, it trickles down from the top.” (37:30, Gugu Mbatha-Raw)

7. Upbringing, Mother, and Personal Support System (18:40–20:30)

• Mother’s Influence: Gugu shares admiration for her mother’s creativity, supportiveness, and their close bond as an only child raised by a single mum.

8. RADA and Early London Adventures (20:37–25:41)

• Coming of Age: Gugu’s journey to RADA at 18, adjusting to adulthood, and finding her feet in London—living briefly in a hostel run by nuns—highlight her adaptability and determination.

9. Failure 3: A Failure to Stay Still (41:24–45:44)

• Restlessness & Curiosity: Gugu identifies her inability to "stay still" as both a challenge and the driving force behind her creativity and productivity.

  • Quote: “I am maybe just a little bit more sort of antsy and restless than a lot of people… I feel like I’ve still got so much to do.” (41:46, Gugu Mbatha-Raw)

• Channeling Energy: This “failure” fuels her dedication to work and relationships, though she’s mindful of staying grounded and connected beyond the industry.

  • Quote: “The work sometimes is a place to sort of channel my rage… All of the energy that I have goes into the work that I do.” (43:27, Gugu Mbatha-Raw)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Resilience:
  Gugu Mbatha-Raw: “Great men try and fail, but they never fail to try.” (04:43)
• On Changing the Industry:
  “You can have a great female role, but it can still be with the male gaze.” (09:26)
• On Creating Art After Loss:
  “Painting was a way to process…and metabolize those ideas.” (29:07)
• On Career Redirection:
  Elizabeth Day: “Any rejection is redirection.” (13:58)
• On Responsibility as a Lead:
  “You set the pace, you set the energy, you set what's acceptable on set.” (37:30)

Key Timestamps

• 04:11 | The meaning of Gugu’s name, pride, and familial influences
• 06:32 | Father’s history as a refugee, working with the UN
• 07:25 | Discovery of complex roles and identity
• 09:12 | Working with female directors, the “female gaze”
• 10:21 | First failure: Not becoming a ballet dancer
• 13:58 | The concept of “rejection is redirection”
• 15:13 | Legacy of discipline and dance in acting
• 18:52 | Her mother’s support and single parenting
• 20:37 | Life at RADA and moving to London, “hostel run by nuns” anecdote
• 25:49 | Second failure: Not becoming a painter; love of art and return during the pandemic
• 29:00 | Painting portraits of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor
• 32:58 | The links between painting and acting
• 33:39 | Experiences of feeling boxed in professionally
• 35:55 | Making choices to avoid typecasting in acting roles
• 36:39 | Co-star dynamics, responsibility as a leader on set (including the “awful co-star” discussion)
• 41:24 | Third failure: Not staying still; positivity, drive and maintaining relationships

Tone & Takeaways

The episode balances warmth, humor, and introspection. Gugu’s anecdotes are thoughtful and candid, her attitude toward failure is refreshingly positive, and her gratitude for formative setbacks shines throughout. Listeners are left with a strong sense of how so-called “failures” can actually catalyze discovery, growth, and a more meaningful, intentional career and life.

For Further Listening

The episode’s second act, “Failing with Friends,” features Gugu answering listener questions and offering advice on navigating setbacks—a continuation of the practical wisdom and encouragement that runs throughout the main interview.