Joe Locke - ‘At 20, I Felt Like I Was Already 35’

Summary

How To Fail With Elizabeth Day – Episode Summary

Guest: Joe Locke
Episode Title: ‘At 20, I Felt Like I Was Already 35’
Date: September 24, 2025

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Overview

In this candid and thoughtful episode, actor Joe Locke joins Elizabeth Day to explore the lessons found in failure, growing up in the spotlight, and learning to reclaim youth and authenticity amid early fame. At just 21, Joe’s reflections span his rapid rise to fame as Heartstopper’s Charlie Spring, his ongoing journey with self-doubt, and the importance of learning to fail—and live—a little more freely.

The conversation delves into three core “failures” in Joe's life:

1. Failure to Enjoy His Youth
2. Failure to Believe in Himself
3. Failure to Let Himself Fail

Through compassionate and honest storytelling, Joe and Elizabeth discuss the costs of early success, the challenge of maintaining privacy, the comfort of female mentorship, and the universal desire to be liked and accepted.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. From the Isle of Man to International Fame

(03:33–05:20)

• Background: Joe was raised primarily by his mother and her three sisters on the Isle of Man, where he found early encouragement for his passion for acting.
• Heartstopper and Overnight Fame: Landing the lead role in Netflix’s Heartstopper at age 17 catapulted Joe to instant global attention, gaining millions of followers in days.
  • Quote: “I always say that overnight, I went from having 10,000 Instagram followers to 3 million, literally within the space of two days...” (04:15, Joe Locke)
• Joe describes the initial pressure and surreal nature of suddenly having a huge international fanbase.

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2. Privacy, Pressure, and Being a Role Model

(04:40–05:20, 20:32–25:02)

• Guarding Privacy: Despite his fame, Joe makes a clear distinction between privacy and secrecy, choosing to retain elements of his life untouched by public attention.
  • Quote: "I think my privacy is like a power, and the idea of losing that is... like, the loss of that power.” (From intro segment)
• On Being a Role Model: Joe rejects the pressure to present himself as a role model, focusing instead on authenticity.
  • Quote: "The only way I can be a role model is by being the true version of myself." (05:00, Joe Locke)
• Social Media Stress: The anxiety of “accidentally” sharing personal moments and being constantly observed is a recurring challenge, highlighting the unique difficulties young celebrities face.

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3. Theatrics and Broadway Dreams

(06:13–07:39)

• Theatre’s Deep Appeal: Joe describes theater as his artistic home, explaining the contrast between the immediacy and realness of theatre versus film/TV work.
• Musical Joy and Karaoke Fears: Despite performing in musicals, Joe comically admits a dislike for karaoke, especially among highly talented friends.
  • Quote: "I hate karaoke. ...All my friends are so talented and amazing... it's just not fun." (06:56, Joe Locke)

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4. Friendship, Found Family, and "Heartstopper University"

(12:13–14:25)

• Heartstopper’s End: Parting with the show felt like sending a child off to university, with the journey paralleling experiences missed by not going to university himself.
• Enduring Bonds: The cast formed lasting friendships—"beyond friendship. ...They will all be in my life until the day I die." (13:14, Joe Locke)
• WhatsApp Banter: The ongoing group chats are reminders of their tight-knit bond, with Joe sheepishly admitting his reputation as “the worst replier.”

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5. Youth Lost and Regained

(18:14–25:02)

“Failure to Enjoy My Youth”

• Living Older Than His Years: Joe reflects on feeling “35 at 20” due to career demands and missed young adult rites of passage—summer flings, club nights, cheap holidays.
• He describes growing resentment at missing a conventional youth but comes to appreciate that his own version, though different, is still valuable.
  • Quote: “I think I realized last year that I was living the life of someone in their mid-30s and I was 20.” (19:48, Joe Locke)
• Letting Go: Breaking out of an overly “grown-up” relationship and learning to have more fun were key. A friend encouraged him to embrace “messy” young experiences.
• Fear of Surveillance: Joe worried about the scrutiny that comes with being in the public eye, fearing ordinary youthful mistakes would be amplified online.
  • Quote: “…My worst nightmare would have been, like, me going to a club and kissing someone and it being all over Twitter. …But I also realized no one actually gives a fuck.” (24:08–24:28, Joe Locke)

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6. Searching for Acceptance and Validation

(07:55–08:29, 25:55–26:38)

• Need to Prove Himself: Joe admits to a lifelong need for likeability and acceptance, linked to growing up gay in a small community and the pressures of the industry.
• Although now more self-aware, he recognizes a lingering desire to shape others’ perceptions positively.
• People-Pleasing and Control: Both Joe and Elizabeth share personal connections to the urge to be liked, with Joe finding it hard to relinquish control over how he's perceived.

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7. Raised by Women—Comfort and Bias

(26:38–28:46)

• Female Influence: Raised by his mother, aunts, and grandmother, Joe finds himself more comfortable with women and even prefers working with them—"reverse misogyny," he jokes.
• Over time, he’s learned to be more at ease in all-male environments—especially as perceptions from school turned out to be mostly unfounded.
• Quote: “I feel far more comfortable being in spaces with women than I do men.” (27:17, Joe Locke)

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8. Believing in Himself (and Imposter Syndrome)

(29:49–36:26)

“Failure to Believe in Myself”

• Imposter Syndrome: Joe details feeling lucky rather than deserving—a sense that he “didn’t belong” because he hadn’t followed the traditional path through drama school.
  • Quote: “I felt like an imposter in my career because I was not handed the job. …For a long time, I felt like I didn’t necessarily belong.” (30:07–30:28, Joe Locke)
• Casting Story: A friend of his mum’s saw the Heartstopper casting call; his self-tape audition (which he refuses to let be made public!) led to chemistry reads and eventually, the role.
• Elizabeth counsels Joe on internal versus external validation. He admits much of his insecurity comes from within, not overt judgment from peers.
• Class and Opportunity: Joe reflects on the persistent class barriers in entertainment and the value of open casting in widening access.

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9. Letting Himself Fail

(38:32–42:22)

“Failure to Let Myself Fail”

• Perfectionism: Joe admits he avoids activities unless he’s good at them—he even quit football as a child “after the first week” when he realized he wasn’t good at it.
  • Quote: "I'm not good at not being good at things or I don't let myself do things I'm not… very good at.” (38:42–39:07, Joe Locke)
• Fear Rooted in Small-Town Life: The pressure to fit in, combined with the visibility in a close-knit place, reinforced his reluctance to try and fail at new things.
• Learning to Embrace Failure: Recent attempts (like struggling at Pilates) have made Joe realize the value of mediocrity and doing things purely for joy—not just achievement.

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10. Lessons from Failure and Looking Forward

(44:15–44:36, 29:09–29:49)

• Growth Mindset: Joe now accepts that he’s still learning and growing, and that it’s okay to not have everything figured out as a young adult.
  • Quote: “I have felt like I’ve had to be perfect and done and fully, like, ready as an adult. And I’m not there yet. And that’s fine.” (44:15, Joe Locke)
• Hopes for the Future: He dreams of a family and a slower-paced life, but is in no rush, wishing to savor what he has now.
  • Quote: “I’d love to have a family … but I can see myself wanting to slow down and enjoy my life with my, hopefully, children.” (29:09, Joe Locke)

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11. Memorable and Lighthearted Moments

(45:45–46:11, 07:33–07:39)

• Eyebrow Chat: Elizabeth praises Joe’s “amazing” eyebrows, leading to banter about grooming mishaps and how his expressive brows sometimes “infringe on acting.”
• Rubik’s Cube Challenge: Joe can solve a Rubik’s Cube in under 90 seconds, a skill honed out of a desire to prove himself.
• Pilates Fun Fact: Joe proudly shares that Joseph Pilates developed Pilates while interned on the Isle of Man.

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Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• “At 20, I felt like I was already 35.” (19:48, Joe Locke)
• “The only way I can be a role model is by being the true version of myself.” (05:00, Joe Locke)
• “My worst nightmare would have been me going to a club and kissing someone and it being all over Twitter. ...But I also realized no one actually gives a fuck.” (24:08–24:28, Joe Locke)
• “I felt like an imposter in my career because I was not handed the job...I didn’t necessarily belong.” (30:07–30:28, Joe Locke)
• “I feel far more comfortable being in spaces with women than I do men.” (27:17, Joe Locke)
• “I have felt like I’ve had to be perfect and done and fully, like, ready as an adult. And I’m not there yet. And that’s fine.” (44:15, Joe Locke)

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Episode Structure and Timestamps

• [03:33] – Introduction to Joe Locke and his background
• [04:15] – Heartstopper’s impact and overnight fame
• [05:00] – Discussion of role model pressures
• [06:13] – Theatre and Broadway experiences
• [12:13] – Saying goodbye to Heartstopper, cast friendship
• [18:14] – Failure to enjoy his youth
• [24:08] – Social media pressure as a young celebrity
• [29:49] – Failure to believe in himself (imposter syndrome)
• [38:32] – Failure to let himself fail (perfectionism)
• [44:15] – Reflection on growth and ongoing learning
• [45:45] – Eyebrow banter and closing moments

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Conclusion

This episode is a rich, honest meditation on the intersections of fame, youth, identity, and vulnerability. Joe Locke’s willingness to speak openly—about insecurities, growing pains, and learning to let go of perfection—offers relatable and empowering lessons that extend far beyond the acting world.

Recommended for anyone navigating a challenging transition, struggling with self-belief, or wanting a compassionate take on the complexities of early success and personal growth.

Transcript

[Joe Locke]

Like my worst nightmare would have been like me going to a club and kissing someone and then it being all over Twitter.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Joe Locke]

Like no thanks. But I also realized no one actually gives a I think I realized like last year that I was living the life of someone in their mid-30s and I was 20. I feel far more comfortable being in spaces with women than I do men.

[Elizabeth Day]

Hello and welcome to how to Fail. I'm Elizabeth Day and if you're new around here, this is the podcast that believe all failure is growth. So don't worry. You're very welcome. And remember, your mistakes are what make.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

You.

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[Elizabeth Day]

My guest today is still only 21, but has already racked up the professional credits of a seasoned actor and a following that most could only dream of. Joe Locke is best known for his lead role as high school pupil Charlie Spring in the hit Netflix teen drama Heartstopper, for which he received a an Emmy nomination. It was his television debut, and since then he's gone on to star in the Marvel miniseries Agatha all along to perform in a Broadway revival of Sweeney Todd. And now he's making his first West End appearance in Samuel D. Hunter's play Clarkston. He was born and grew up on the tiny, windswept Isle of Man, raised primarily by women, his single mother and her three sisters. Locked describes his mum as an amazing woman who always supported his ambition to act. He started out with school plays and local productions before being accepted into the National Youth Theatre at the age of 15. Two years later, Locke was chosen out of 10,000 other potential actors at an open casting call for Heartstopper. It was a role that would dramatically change his life, but not his privacy, which Locke still guards closely despite his 4 million Instagram followers and legion of Gen Z fans I think my privacy is like a power, and the idea of losing that is, like, the loss of that power. Locke says, I guess that's the thing I hold onto the most dearest, because that's the bit of me that is still unaffected by anything else. Joe Locke, welcome to how to Fail.

[Joe Locke]

Thanks for having me. That was such a lovely rundown. My mum's gonna love that.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is she good? I always want to give a shout out to the mums.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

My mum deserves Big one.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's a delight and a challenge to have you here as someone who guards his privacy so closely. Let's see how we get on.

[Joe Locke]

It's really interesting, like. Whereas, like, I would still say I do hold my privacy very close, but I'm much more, like, comfortable in, like, what that is. But now I'm, I don't know, feel more. I still have a very private person, but I'm more open.

[Elizabeth Day]

I love hearing that. And actually, I think it's so important to make the distinction between privacy and secrecy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

And I can understand why you were scared and a bit jittery, because that was an interview that you gave around the time of the Heartstopper hype.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

And for someone who, as I said, grew up on the Isle of Man and then your first big job was this immense hit, it must have been incredibly surreal.

[Joe Locke]

It was. You know, it. I always say that overnight, I went from having 10,000 Instagram followers to 3 million, literally within the space of two days, because Heartstopper came out. And it just was this overnight success in a way that we weren't prepared for. I don't think Netflix were prepared for. And it was a very weird adjustment.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

So then you've got 3 million people following you. Then. Do you feel like, well, I've got to be really careful what I do post now.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

There's the pressure of if I accidentally post something to my Instagram story, by the time you can take it down, that's already been seen by 10,000 people in seconds.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you feel the pressure of being a role model?

[Joe Locke]

No, I don't. I used to, but I have realized that's not my job. The only way I can be a role model is by being the true version of myself. I'm not aspiring to be a role model, and if that is something that people attribute to me, that's not my fault or my, like, thing to worry about. I used to worry about it a lot, but not so much.

[Elizabeth Day]

Let's talk about the play.

[Joe Locke]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

Because I know almost nothing about it. Tell me a bit about what the themes are. The character Jake, that you're playing.

[Joe Locke]

So the play's by Sam Hunter, who wrote the Whale, which was with Brendan Fraser and won a few Oscars a few years ago. And his plays are often more about, like, the characters and where they are in the world compared to, like, a really, like. Like, intense, actiony plot. And so our play follows my character, Jake, who moves, who travels to Washington, in rural Washington to a town called Clarkston, and starts working at a Costco. So most of the play is set inside this Costco and meets this other boy, Chris, and they. They, like, have a friendship. And then Chris's mum is battling with addiction. And the play is about the connections between that and them. And it's a really, really beautiful play, I think.

[Elizabeth Day]

And what do you love about theatre? Because I do think it was such a brave decision for you to go off the back of this Heartstopper attention and go and do Sweeney Todd in Broadway.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, I mean, I grew up doing loads of, like, amateur theatre in the Isle of Man. And that was, like, my passion and still is my passion. And so theatre's always been like. Like, film and TV is great and it's really fun to get to do that, and I love doing that. But theater is, you know, it feels like it's real acting. You get to act a whole story the whole way through. And then doing musicals, I just love musicals. And I got the opportunity to do that, and so I was like, yeah, fuck it.

[Elizabeth Day]

If you do karaoke, do you choose?

[Joe Locke]

I hate karaoke. Do you hate it?

[Elizabeth Day]

You have the passion on your face.

[Joe Locke]

You know what it is? Because all my friends are so talented and amazing, and you go into karaoke with, like, singers, and then it's just not fun.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's not fair.

[Joe Locke]

It's not fair.

[Elizabeth Day]

But you can sing.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, but not, like, I could sing a song that I have rehearsed and done and over and prepared. But then when you go into karaoke, and I find karaoke so stressful.

[Elizabeth Day]

You see, now I love karaoke. I can't sing, and so I opt for a rap. So that's my gift to you. What's your karaoke song, Skeetos? I wish.

[Joe Locke]

Great.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah, great. Is it true that you can do a Rubik's Cube in less than 90 seconds?

[Joe Locke]

I can.

[Elizabeth Day]

Wow.

[Joe Locke]

Someone at school told me that I wouldn't. I couldn't do it. And so I went home and taught myself overnight, because that's the kind of person I, at least was. Maybe not am I so much anymore. But I very much feel like sometimes I have to prove myself. And so I was like, I'll show you, and then I did it.

[Elizabeth Day]

And why do you think you feel you have to prove yourself or did then?

[Joe Locke]

I don't know. Maybe some sort of, like, wanting to be, like, accepted and liked. Probably comes down to that.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you feel accepted and liked now?

[Joe Locke]

To an extent, yeah. I think maybe it's more that now. I try not to care as much, but then also there are things that, like, I do really try to be liked and accepted for. Yeah. I think it's just different now.

[Elizabeth Day]

So many of us will relate to this. I also have that tendency where I want people to like me and to accept me because it feels scary not being. And at the advanced age of 46, I still haven't quite nailed it, but this podcast has actually genuinely, really helped me, both because I can show up as my true self, flaws and all, but also because the community that's grown around it, I'm incredibly appreciative of. And I wonder, when you're a famous actor, as you are, whether there is a degree of validation that is. That comes from that, that is actually quite profound.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, I think so.

[Elizabeth Day]

What does your mum think of your fame?

[Joe Locke]

I think she finds it, like, the fame itself, weird and sometimes slightly overwhelming. She still is a teacher in the Isle of Man. And then sometimes people will message you, be like, oh, do you think Jo could do this for me? And then she doesn't know how to respond to that. I used to, when I was younger, think, oh, Mum, why let me live my life? But looking back now, when I was 18 and heartstood came out and I was suddenly catapulted into this world that she had absolutely no idea of or no grasp of what. That I would be terrified if that was my child.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Joe Locke]

And actually, when I was 18 and that was happening, I was like, oh, Mom, I'm fine. Like, it's like, let me just live my life. Whereas now looking back, I was like, yeah, no wonder she was so scared.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Joe Locke]

Like, I was going to these big industry parties and then flying back to go and finish my A levels and then going to another party. And then, like, she obviously wouldn't and couldn't stop me because she wanted me to do the things. But, like, no wonder that, like, she found that really stressful and quite scary. And I should have. Well, I guess when you're a teenager, I was living it. I didn't think of it in that way. It's only in hindsight, you can see those things, but, like, I really should have cut her some slack for that.

[Elizabeth Day]

And she sounds like an amazing woman and an amazing parent.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Being able to strike that balance between love and protection and allowing your child to follow their dreams.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Locke]

She. She's very selfless. She's always put, like, me above everything for my whole life.

[Elizabeth Day]

Can I ask her name?

[Joe Locke]

Helen.

[Elizabeth Day]

Helen.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

This is a shout out to Helen.

[Joe Locke]

Hi, Mark.

[Elizabeth Day]

Helen Locke.

[Joe Locke]

Helen Locke.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's a great name.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, before we get onto your failures, I do need to ask you a few more questions about Heartstopper, please. Because I know that there are going to be so many people listening who are absolute obsessed with it, and I'm one of them. Was it bittersweet to say goodbye to the series?

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, it felt like the right time and in the right circumstance and, like sending a child off to university. I was like, okay, I'm ready to move on with my life and career, and I think the show is ready to. At the perfect time for it to end. And, you know, we always, as a cast, always talk about Heartstopper, like, being our version of university because none of us, most of us didn't go to university because the years we would have been at university, we were doing Heartstopper and we would, like, live in the same apartment buildings. And it was like our uni. And so, like, now I would have been graduating uni this year if I'd gone. And so finishing Heartstopper, and that at the same time was very, like, fitting. It feels like it's a nice goodbye.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is the film still happening?

[Joe Locke]

We filmed it. It's done.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's done. And you're exec producer on that?

[Joe Locke]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's exciting.

[Joe Locke]

It was very. It was very exciting. It's fun.

[Elizabeth Day]

And I think one of the things that was so obvious as a viewer of Heartstopper was the dynamic between you and your cast. I don't think. I mean, obviously you're a great actor, but I don't think you can entirely fake that. It just felt like the friendships were so real.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, completely.

[Joe Locke]

Like we're all, like, they're all my closest friends. I think also there's something about, like, I see all of them all the time, but if there's ever a time in my life where I don't see them for. For a while, there's a bond that's created there that's like. It's beyond friendship. And what we've all been through together is like a unit that no One else in the world can. Like, has been through that thing in the same way we all have. And so that, like, it's nice to know that they will all be in my life until the day I die. Aww. Like, regardless if I don't see them in years and years.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Joe Locke]

It's like family.

[Elizabeth Day]

That for me is the true metric of friendship. You don't have to see each other every single day, but when you do, even if it is within the span of a few years, you can pick up where you left off. Is there a heartstopper WhatsApp group?

[Joe Locke]

There is. There's a few. There's like a few over the years of things, but I think this one now is just called like Dinner at Fizzes because we were going for dinner at Fisayo's house and that was just. No one's changed the name.

[Elizabeth Day]

And who's the most active on the group?

[Joe Locke]

Ooh, I think it really depends. It's not like an active, active group chat. It's just like if be like, oh, if there's like a industry party, everyone's like, oh, you're going to the Netflix party tonight?

[Elizabeth Day]

Are you going to GQ Men of the Year awards?

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, that sort of thing.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay. I bet you're rubbish on WhatsApp. I bet you don't.

[Joe Locke]

The worst replier.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah, that's what I was about to say.

[Joe Locke]

I am so bad. I have probably like, I'm sorry to everyone. I like, haven't replied to. I just like, I'll read a text and I'll be like, okay, yeah, yeah. And then I'll just forget to reply. And then it just gets really stressful because there's like so many to reply to. So like once a week I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go through reply to everyone. But then they will reply when you're still messaging and say, well, now I don't know what to do.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Again.

[Elizabeth Day]

Final question on this. Did you watch Adolescents?

[Joe Locke]

I did.

[Elizabeth Day]

What did you think in terms of Adolescence is obviously also set in a high school grappling with some similar issues, but in a very different way. What did you make of it?

[Joe Locke]

I mean, I could talk about this for hours. The rise of like the right wing populism within young men. I think it's such an interesting and terrifying thing. And I think that's something that that show talked about and grappled with in a really accessible way, which is so great. I just don't know like, what we do to stop it.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah, well, I think shows like Heartstopper are in many ways the vehicle through which we change. Because there's something so delightful about that show in that it accepts every single character for who they are without over explaining it. And I think if we adopt that attitude as a broader culture, then we'll be doing so much better.

[Joe Locke]

Yes, that would be nice if we were to do that as a culture.

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[Elizabeth Day]

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[Joe Locke]

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[Joe Locke]

Yes.

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[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Let's do this.

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[Joe Locke]

Hey, you weren't listening to me.

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[Elizabeth Day]

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[Elizabeth Day]

Let's get onto your failures. They're big ones.

[Joe Locke]

They're fine.

[Elizabeth Day]

You went there.

[Joe Locke]

Well, you know, I looked at some people like, oh, like my driving test. Like, I failed my driving test twice, but like, me too. And then my third time, when I passed it, he turned to me, he said, so you've passed, but I've got a lot of concerns. And I just, I was like, well, you told me I passed now, so I'm not listening.

[Elizabeth Day]

So can you not remember what any of the concerns were?

[Joe Locke]

I drove too fast. I brake too late. So I got loads of minors on my test, but didn't get any major, so I didn't fail.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's so cool.

[Joe Locke]

I think now I think I'm one of the best drivers I know.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, this is actually so interesting because even though it's not one of your failures, I think it's a metaphor for life because I also, I did an almost perfect drive for my first driving test. Me too. I was so proud of myself until the last few minutes. And then I rolled back on a hill start, which I've never done not the same thing. Stop it, Jo. I'm the same person and I've never done that before. And actually I'm amazing at hill starts. And it was an automatic fail second test because I just thought, well, there's no point. There's just no point in trying. I got the same examiner and I made so many minor faults, but I passed because I think I was slightly more relaxed. And now as a consequence, I think I'm a far better driver.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, I think I'm a great driver now.

[Elizabeth Day]

So you see, failures actually equip us to succeed better.

[Joe Locke]

Exactly. There was a little bonus failure.

[Elizabeth Day]

No. Thank you so much. Okay, we finally landed that your first failure is your failure to enjoy your youth.

[Joe Locke]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

Tell me about your youth. So I, I mentioned that you grew up on the Isle of Man.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

What's that like?

[Joe Locke]

So. But the Isle of Man is amazing to grow up in. I, I think growing up there, I didn't appreciate how good of a place to grow up it was until I, like now can look back in hindsight and like the freedom of living in and growing up in such a free, like, safe place where like I would go out with my friends and I just knew when to come home, when it was got dark or like there was a lot of freedom in that, which was amazing. Acting and the entertainment industry is such like a interesting career because it's one of the few careers that someone so young can be in such a position of, I guess, power in the workplace. And because of that, I think I realized like last year that I was living the life of someone in their mid-30s and I was 20 and I would go and visit my friends at their unis and I'd feel so out of place because I wasn't living a young person's life. And I found that really, like, hard and I found that I realized that I just, I needed to take stock and like change some things in my life to then try and enjoy what I had of my youth. And I think for a while I like resented the fact that my job meant that I had like, couldn't be so young and do the young people things. But I realized I was like, well, I'm doing the job, I love living my dream. I just need to like, enjoy the youth through that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Joe Locke]

Like the parts of it I can. And my experience of being 21 is very different to what most 21 year olds experiences are. But I'm still 21 and I still should enjoy that.

[Elizabeth Day]

So talk to me a bit about what your experience of being 21 is and what young things, quote, unquote, you might have liked to have done.

[Joe Locke]

Well, I think it's not like I have a stable income. I have. I rent my own home. I. I do all these things that are very, like, grown up and adult. And I have meetings with my accountant and I, I don't know, talk to a financial advisor. Yeah. My friends are all. My friends in, like, in the acting world are all, like, buying houses and doing really grown up, adult things and are in long term grownup relationships. And I was like, going down that path. And last year I was like, I have never been able to experience, like, having a summer fling or going to a club and kissing someone, or, like, I don't know, going on a shit holiday to Majorca with my friends. And like, my life had just taken me in a different path. And I was beginning to resent the fact that I didn't, like, go to university or do the things that I had. Because when I was growing up, I was like, oh, you. Like, he saw me and he was like, well, he's gonna go to uni. He's gonna do this. My heart had my whole life sort of planned. And then obviously other things had other plans, which is great. And I'm like, not that I'm so happy for that, but I. I think I realized that I'd got so overwhelmed in that world of like, oh, I need to be this person that I am now that I had forgotten how old I actually was and how little life experience I'd had and how I need to just slow down and live my life.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah, because you're also the oldest child, aren't you?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

And you come across as someone who is so mature and sorted and.

[Joe Locke]

I am, but also I need to. And I'm trying to, like, not always be that person.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

And did you get any help with this that when you realized that there was a slight tension there?

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, well, I got out of a relationship, which was a good thing for. For becoming young again. And then I. One of my best friends, Dylan, is the most inspiring woman. And she just taught me to just, like, enjoy the fun things because I think I realized that I wasn't, like, letting myself enjoy young people things because I had this, like, high pressure life. And she was just like, you just need to just, like, let yourself have more fun and let yourself, like, make, like, the young people things that you do, like going out and getting really drunk and then vomiting in the toilet. Like, I would, like, stop myself.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

I Don't know. Doing that.

[Elizabeth Day]

So did you go and do.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, it's great. But also while doing it and not like having like a life crisis and like falling off the like I still am myself. I'm not going to change that. But I don't know, I've really been enjoying this year being young again because I feel like last year I spent the whole year living someone living the life of a 35 year old.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

And was there a fear attached to if you did let yourself go, quote unquote, that you would also be seen to be doing that? Because a lot of 20 somethings can make those mistakes in private.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, definitely.

[Joe Locke]

That was a big part of it is like, I don't know, not feeling an added pressure of not being able to do those on such a public scale.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

But I realized that I wasn't doing those things because I was so terrified of. Not the repercussions because I wasn't doing anything wrong, but like my worst nightmare would have been like me going to a club and kissing someone and then it being all over Twitter like, no thanks. But I also realized no one actually gives a fuck. No one cares, Joe. Like you're so egotistical that you think someone's gonna film you kissing someone in the club and put on like no one cares. I mean some people might care, but like you just got, you've got to do it in a different way. Like I probably wouldn't go to heaven and do it there.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

Because it's like. But you can let yourself go and have fun and be not so like all tight up. And in your own way it sounds.

[Elizabeth Day]

To me like there's something around trust here. Sort of trusting yourself as well as trusting that you're safe.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, I think so. I think so.

[Elizabeth Day]

I'm so glad that you're having some well deserved fun.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

This year's been my year of trying to have more fun.

[Elizabeth Day]

And you don't need to tell me this, but I'm interested. When you say you got out of a relationship, was the reason for getting out of it because you wanted to have fun? I've made that sound trivial. I didn't mean to.

[Joe Locke]

No, it was, it was a lot. Because I realized I wasn't ready in my life to be in a very like a long term grown up relationship.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

The social media of it all. How do you handle it?

[Joe Locke]

I'm very aloof on social media.

[Elizabeth Day]

You're very cat like.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, I like post something and then, or disappear and then I keep my social media Quite work focused, which can sometimes go into the personal because my work is so intertwined with my life.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you care what people you don't know think of you?

[Joe Locke]

I used to say no, but I think that anyone who says they don't care what people they don't know think of them are lying even if they think they're not. Most of the time I don't, but sometimes, yeah, it's not that I care what they think of me, but I would rather they think of me in. In a certain way.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Joe Locke]

Like I want would rather shape the way that they think of me in a way that I think is positive rather than, I guess, exactly what they think of me.

[Elizabeth Day]

That is such a smart response.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

That makes total sense because it goes back to trust and control.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, yeah, I like having control.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah, me too. Tell me a little bit about being raised by women and how you think that has shaped you.

[Joe Locke]

I was saying to my friend the other day that I think I've got like reverse misogyny because of my upbringing in the way that like I would if I was like choosing a team of people, like for work or whatever. I would never choose a man over a woman. I would always choose a woman, like for everything.

[Elizabeth Day]

I love you.

[Joe Locke]

Like, like I get it's probably bad and it's probably just as bad as being misogynistic, but that's my truth.

[Elizabeth Day]

I think it's fine because the pendulum has to swing so far direction that it's just recalibration.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Locke]

Like I would like always trust. I feel far more comfortable being in spaces with women than I do men. And I don't know if that's just because of my upbringing because I also had amazing male figures in my. In my life. But my mum and her sisters were very like my grandma and my granddad also was great. My dad when I was a bit older as well. But my mum and her sisters, very much so were very like strong influences on men.

[Elizabeth Day]

When you say you feel more comfortable in a room full of women rather than men, what about men who aren't straight? Would they be the same?

[Joe Locke]

Even more so.

[Elizabeth Day]

Really?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

Sorry, no, no, I know that's not necessarily true. But I think that I would feel comfortable in a room of gay men. But also now in my life I'd feel comfortable in a room of straight men in a way that I definitely wouldn't have when I was younger, like at school and things which I think also looking back wasn't necessarily their fault or my perception that I had this idea that I thought that, like, the bro y straight guys wouldn't like me, and so therefore I didn't put myself in those scenarios, so therefore wasn't comfortable in those scenarios. Whereas now I look back and I think actually, like, most of those people that I was scared of are actually really lovely guys and nice people. And I maybe was just as much putting on them what I thought they like projecting onto them what I thought they would be rather than what they actually were.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

There's that thin line between protecting yourself and defensiveness.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

So we're talking about your youth, but I wonder if we could spool forward. So as you mentioned, you're about to turn 22. So when you're 44, if you can imagine that advanced age joke, what would you light your life and career to look like?

[Joe Locke]

Ooh, I'd love to have a family, probably quite a new family, because I can't see myself having a family for a while. And I'd love to, like, still be doing this job and the job I love, but maybe a little bit slower. Maybe like, just because I feel like right now, like, in my 20s, I'm like, bam, bam, bam. Let's go, let's work all of it. Which is I love it. But I can see myself wanting to slow down and enjoy my life with my, hopefully, children. I'd love to have kids.

[Elizabeth Day]

I think you'd be an amazing dad.

[Joe Locke]

I hope so. I hope so.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, even that response to me look, and he's touching wood. If you're listening to this, even that response to me shows that you'd be amazing because you're not arrogant in any way, shape or form. Okay. Your second failure is your failure to believe in yourself. Talk about seamless link.

[Joe Locke]

Well, yeah, actually, I was like, believing myself sounds so eggy and so. But I was like, back myself, but it is believe in myself. Like, I think I this one for a long time and still a lot I feel like an imposter in my career because I was not handed the job. Like, I was just very lucky. And I was very lucky that Heartstopper chose me. And then I got a great agent. And then I was lucky that other things fell into place. And so for a long time, I felt like I didn't necessarily belong in the job that I'm in. And so therefore I didn't really have, like, a belief that I could make a career out of it. And I think there's quite a lot of the times that I still, like, find myself just, like, feeling so grateful to Be in the spaces I'm in that I forget that like. Oh no. Like I've actually worked quite hard to be here. Yeah, yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Can I ask what that open casting call process was like?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Talk me through everything.

[Joe Locke]

They. They sent an open call out. I sent it in my headshot and then I did a self tape.

[Elizabeth Day]

How did you find out about the call out?

[Joe Locke]

A friend of my mum sent it to my mum was like, oh this looks cool, you should show it to Joe. And then I was like, cool. So thanks Nikki.

[Elizabeth Day]

Shout out to Nikki.

[Joe Locke]

Shout out to Nikki.

[Elizabeth Day]

Helen's friend.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

And then I sent in a self tape.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is it really excruciatingly cringe having to do a self tape?

[Joe Locke]

The worst. I hate self tapes. Like now I've done many of them and it's easier but it's not fun. I much prefer going in the rooms for an audition. That is so much better.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah, because you have to sort of put your iPhone up on the cooker.

[Joe Locke]

It wasn't like people don't get to see you as a person. Every job I've gotten, I've gotten because I was able to go in the room.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, so you do a cringey self tip which I'm sure is great.

[Joe Locke]

But they asked me if they could release it and I was like, like publicly. And I was like over my dead body. Release that and I will sue you. Sue you.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's such a shame because there's this. There's this corner of TikTok that I'm obsessed with which is actors doing self tapes.

[Joe Locke]

Can I say something controversial? I think all of them are bad. I know every self tape, every. Even at the best actors in the world. I think all self tapes are inherently just not good.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, so we're never going to see.

[Joe Locke]

Never gonna see.

[Elizabeth Day]

Maybe when you die it will be able to.

[Joe Locke]

I'm gonna put it in my will. Do not release.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, so you send the self tape.

[Joe Locke]

Send the self tape. And then I think I did another self tape maybe and then a few zoom calls. But it was during COVID so it was all like I was doing my A levels. I was in the Isle of Man recording it with over like loads of books because I didn't have like a tripod or anything at that point. And then they flew me out to London. It was just like when was that? 2021. And then I did a chemistry read and then got the part.

[Elizabeth Day]

And how did they tell you you got the part?

[Joe Locke]

So by that point the casting director helped me get my agent Which I'm so grateful for because me and my agent have an amazing relationship now. And, like, he's the best.

[Elizabeth Day]

He's a man, so. Well, that's good.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

You've got a man in your team.

[Joe Locke]

I know. I think he's. Yeah, he's the only man on my team.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Joe Locke]

Literally is. It's great. So I did my audition and I flew back to the Isle of Man. And because it was Covid, I had to isolate on my own in my house for two weeks. So my mum had to move out, just me and the dog. And so my agent rang me to tell me, but I was just on my own in my house.

[Elizabeth Day]

Oh, my goodness.

[Joe Locke]

It made the two weeks of isolating worth it, though, because I was like, oh, I've got something to look forward to.

[Elizabeth Day]

Did you allow yourself to celebrate on your own with your dog?

[Joe Locke]

I think I did. I don't really remember, but I'm sure I probably got, like, a domino's and watched a movie.

[Elizabeth Day]

I love a domino's.

[Joe Locke]

I actually loved the two weeks of just being on my own and having to be the force. That was fun.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's so interesting, though, given what we're talking about with this failure, that failure to believe in yourself. Because the way that that happened is so unusual.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

That it in and of itself was an isolating experience as well as being a happy one.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

And I think, like, it was an amazing experience, but because I didn't technically, I don't know, get to, like, prove myself in the way that other people who are in this job have through like, going to drama school or. And, like, working their way up. I. I don't know. It didn't feel like. Not like I deserved. Yeah. Like I deserved it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

In a way.

[Elizabeth Day]

Has that feeling lessened with time?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

I think for the year after Heartstopper, I hadn't got any other jobs. And I remember kept. I kept thinking, like, okay, when I get another job, that's like, when I can. Like, I'd be like, oh, I'm an actor. Because people are like, oh, what do you do? Like, oh, I would hate saying I'm an actor. Because I. I was, but I. I don't know, I felt very. Like I didn't. I shouldn't be saying. Because I don't deserve to say that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

And then I got another job and then I was like. Still felt worried about letting myself, I don't know, back myself in that way.

[Elizabeth Day]

You're still uncomfortable saying it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's so interesting.

[Joe Locke]

It is.

[Elizabeth Day]

You are an actor.

[Joe Locke]

I'm Joe Lot. You are.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

And you're a really, really great one.

[Joe Locke]

Thank you.

[Elizabeth Day]

And you're gonna have a long career of proving yourself over and over again. We're touching wood again. My final question on this is really, are there people who make you feel like that in this industry who maybe judge you for not having been to drama school, not being professionally trained, or is it an internal job that you're making yourself feel that?

[Joe Locke]

I'd say it's internal. I'm sure there are people, but they wouldn't tell me.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

And I actually have found that, like everyone in the industry is. It's a really small group of people, especially people like my age. And everyone is so, like, supportive of each other. Especially when you're like going for the same parts. It's like, yeah, can be hard, but everyone is. Yeah. In my experience. So it's a very internal feeling.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you think that there are enough opportunities for young Joe Locks like you growing up in the Isle of Man, Coming from a background of like hard working people, are there enough opportunities for people like you in this industry?

[Joe Locke]

No. I think that the film industry is still very. It's got a very strong relationship with the class system in a way that other industries maybe, I guess all industries do in a way. And I think that open casting is a great way of making that more accessible.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Joe Locke]

And making the industry more accessible.

[J]

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[Joe Locke]

Over.

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[Elizabeth Day]

Your final failure, Joe, is your failure to let yourself fail.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

How early do you think that failure started?

[Joe Locke]

Like, early as I can remember. I remember, like, quitting football club after the first week because I know I wasn't good at it and I'm not. Not like, I'm not good at not being good at things or I don't let myself do things I'm not. I know I'm not very good at. Which I think I've recently realized has meant that, like, I actually missed out on a. Not a missed out, but, like, not let myself do things. Missed out on a lot because I've. I've stuck to the things I'm good at rather than, like, doing things I'm actively bad at. And I think everyone should do things they're bad at because. But I'm so scared of, like, being embarrassed and letting myself fail in front of other people and letting other people see the failure that I just oftentimes.

[Elizabeth Day]

Stop that I completely relate. Where do you think that fear and embarrassment piece comes from? Is it a feeling of not belonging or.

[Joe Locke]

I think it's really closely related to, like, small town. Growing up in a small town, like, the element's great, but I think there's this thing when you grow up somewhere so small and everyone knows everyone that, like, you have to fit in and you have to, like, like, abide by certain, like, social rules. And so when you don't, it. You stand out. And so I very much learned to, like, fit in in my things and stick to the things I was good at.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you think your sexuality played into that?

[Joe Locke]

Maybe I don't. Not hugely.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

I've been very lucky and I have never. I had a great experience with my sexuality and, like, no one ever gave me shit for it.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you do anything now that you know you're not very good at?

[Joe Locke]

No. You know what? I want to. I'm trying to more. I started Pilates, Okay. And I got told by my Pilates instructor that I have the flexibility of a 55 year old, so I'm not very good at that.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, that's good for it. Ties into your first failure.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Failure of youth.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, exactly. I have to fail a lot in my job. And like, I remember last week in rehearsal, we were getting. I got a note from the retro and I was really tired and I, like, took it so personally. And then I was like, thinking. I was like, it's just like, get over it. I think that's my. I've got. I think it's related to, like a fear of, again, like, people pleasing and not someone not liking me because I'm bad at something or like embarrassment from that.

[Elizabeth Day]

You want to be perfect in order to be lovable.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

But you can't.

[Elizabeth Day]

But you're the most lovable version of yourself when you are your real self, which is imperfect.

[Joe Locke]

Exactly.

[Elizabeth Day]

And that thing about taking notes personally, again, I relate not as a world famous actor, but when someone delivers what I experience as criticism, the chances are I will take it personally. But that's okay because I believe that being able to take things like that personally, but also being able to understand if there's a seed of truth in it and actionable feedback. The personal bit enables me to be empathetic and enables you to be empathetic and to understand other people's emotions. So I wouldn't take it away.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

And I think it's one of those things where you have to be compassionate with yourself and say, not get over it. Like, I understand that. I. Jo, I'm gonna take this. I'm gonna feel it deeply. But feeling deeply is part of my superpower. That's my advice.

[Joe Locke]

I definitely feel deeply.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

But what you say about not doing things that you're not good at. I remember once interviewing Malcolm Gladwell on this podcast, and one of his failures was failure to run. So he used to be a championship runner in high school. And then there came a point in his midlife where he just realized he was an entirely mediocre runner. He never actually made it to where he thought he was gonna make it, but he did deliberately. Still runs because there's joy to be had in the mediocrity.

[Joe Locke]

That's great.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

I really like that.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's so good, isn't it? It's like doing something not because you're getting anywhere with it, but doing it because you're sitting in the contradiction of it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

So I think Pilates might be your way through.

[Joe Locke]

I think so. Pilates started in the Isle of Man, Little known fact.

[Elizabeth Day]

Did it?

[Joe Locke]

Joseph Pilates was in an internment camp in World War I in the Isle of Man in Norkhalo Farm, and he started Pilates. That's my, like, fun fact that I like to own.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's an incredible fact.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Joe Locke]

Because everyone's like, no, it doesn't.

[Elizabeth Day]

No.

[Joe Locke]

And I'm like, well, Google it.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's incredible. So Joseph Pilates lived in the UK but was interned.

[Joe Locke]

He was interned in the Isle of man.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's amazing, Joe.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

You see? Well, you're great at facts.

[Joe Locke]

I. I have a. I have a very good, like, memory like that.

[Elizabeth Day]

What is your most embarrassing failure, do you think that you've had to just live with and grow from? Is there a terrible audition?

[Joe Locke]

I mean, there's been many terrible auditions. I know what my most embarrassing thing is, but I'm not saying on a podcast because I wanted to stay hidden and away from the world.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay. Will you tell me afterwards?

[Joe Locke]

I'll tell you afterwards.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, great. Thank you. What do you think failure has taught you, or these three failures specifically?

[Joe Locke]

That I have a lot of growing to do still. And that's okay. I think because of my life, I have. Have had to. I felt like I've had to be, like, perfect and done and fully, like, ready as an adult. And I'm not there yet. And that's fine.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

And we're all still growing.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

What an amazing note to draw this to a close on, but I do want to ask you one very, very important question, which is about your eyebrows.

[Joe Locke]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Day]

Your eyebrows are amazing.

[Joe Locke]

Thank you.

[Elizabeth Day]

And I'm a big eyebrow advocate. I think brows. Forget the eyes. Brows are the windows to the soul. Have you always had great eyebrows?

[Joe Locke]

I actually have a great eyebrow. Singular.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay.

[Joe Locke]

And I actually was supposed to go and get it threaded yesterday, the middle bit, but I didn't have any time, so I just plucked. I actually didn't. I got my one blade and went VMP this morning, which is what I used to do when I was, like, 12. There's pictures of me from when I was, like, in Year seven at school. And my eyebrows, like, here and here, because it just. I like, just would go with a razor and it would just go like that. But I've always had very thick eyebrows.

[Elizabeth Day]

So it's, like, so left natural. It's like a Frida Kahlo.

[Joe Locke]

Yeah, very much so. And up here, like, it grows all the way up here.

[Elizabeth Day]

Wow. Anyway, so I get them.

[Joe Locke]

I don't get them, like, threaded, threaded. I just get, like, just a little bit, you know, just a little. It's fucking sore.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's so painful.

[Joe Locke]

So painful.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

You have fantastic eyebrows. Do you think they help your acting?

[Joe Locke]

You know what? I think they sometimes infringe on acting because I quite have quite expressive eyebrows.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Joe Locke]

And so I often, when I watch myself, I think, gosh, that's doing a bit too much there, Jo. Which I probably am not. It's just because the eyebrows. It looks like I'm doing a lot.

[Elizabeth Day]

I can't wait to see them on stage.

[Joe Locke]

On stage. They're gonna be great.

[Elizabeth Day]

They're gonna be great.

[Joe Locke]

Do a bit more and be a bit bigger.

[Elizabeth Day]

Joe Locke, I've loved having you on how to Fail. Thank you so, so much.

[Joe Locke]

Thank you for having me.

[Elizabeth Day]

And good luck with the play. And everyone must go and see it.

[Joe Locke]

Yes, please go watch it.

[Elizabeth Day]

When does it open?

[Joe Locke]

17Th of September to 22nd November at the Trafalgar Theatre, Clarkston, starring Joe Locke.

[Elizabeth Day]

Jo, thank you so, so much.

[Joe Locke]

Thanks for having me.

[Elizabeth Day]

Please do follow how to fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends this is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.

[Joe Locke]

And Doug, here we have the Limu.

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[Joe Locke]

Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Marvel/LinkedIn Ad Voice]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Joe Locke]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty, Liberty.

[Marvel/LinkedIn Ad Voice]

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