How To Fail With Elizabeth Day – Episode Summary

Guest: Joe Locke
Episode Title: ‘At 20, I Felt Like I Was Already 35’
Date: September 24, 2025

Overview

In this candid and thoughtful episode, actor Joe Locke joins Elizabeth Day to explore the lessons found in failure, growing up in the spotlight, and learning to reclaim youth and authenticity amid early fame. At just 21, Joe’s reflections span his rapid rise to fame as Heartstopper’s Charlie Spring, his ongoing journey with self-doubt, and the importance of learning to fail—and live—a little more freely.

The conversation delves into three core “failures” in Joe's life:

1. Failure to Enjoy His Youth
2. Failure to Believe in Himself
3. Failure to Let Himself Fail

Through compassionate and honest storytelling, Joe and Elizabeth discuss the costs of early success, the challenge of maintaining privacy, the comfort of female mentorship, and the universal desire to be liked and accepted.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. From the Isle of Man to International Fame

(03:33–05:20)

• Background: Joe was raised primarily by his mother and her three sisters on the Isle of Man, where he found early encouragement for his passion for acting.
• Heartstopper and Overnight Fame: Landing the lead role in Netflix’s Heartstopper at age 17 catapulted Joe to instant global attention, gaining millions of followers in days.
  • Quote: “I always say that overnight, I went from having 10,000 Instagram followers to 3 million, literally within the space of two days...” (04:15, Joe Locke)
• Joe describes the initial pressure and surreal nature of suddenly having a huge international fanbase.

2. Privacy, Pressure, and Being a Role Model

(04:40–05:20, 20:32–25:02)

• Guarding Privacy: Despite his fame, Joe makes a clear distinction between privacy and secrecy, choosing to retain elements of his life untouched by public attention.
  • Quote: "I think my privacy is like a power, and the idea of losing that is... like, the loss of that power.” (From intro segment)
• On Being a Role Model: Joe rejects the pressure to present himself as a role model, focusing instead on authenticity.
  • Quote: "The only way I can be a role model is by being the true version of myself." (05:00, Joe Locke)
• Social Media Stress: The anxiety of “accidentally” sharing personal moments and being constantly observed is a recurring challenge, highlighting the unique difficulties young celebrities face.

3. Theatrics and Broadway Dreams

(06:13–07:39)

• Theatre’s Deep Appeal: Joe describes theater as his artistic home, explaining the contrast between the immediacy and realness of theatre versus film/TV work.
• Musical Joy and Karaoke Fears: Despite performing in musicals, Joe comically admits a dislike for karaoke, especially among highly talented friends.
  • Quote: "I hate karaoke. ...All my friends are so talented and amazing... it's just not fun." (06:56, Joe Locke)

4. Friendship, Found Family, and "Heartstopper University"

(12:13–14:25)

• Heartstopper’s End: Parting with the show felt like sending a child off to university, with the journey paralleling experiences missed by not going to university himself.
• Enduring Bonds: The cast formed lasting friendships—"beyond friendship. ...They will all be in my life until the day I die." (13:14, Joe Locke)
• WhatsApp Banter: The ongoing group chats are reminders of their tight-knit bond, with Joe sheepishly admitting his reputation as “the worst replier.”

5. Youth Lost and Regained

(18:14–25:02)

“Failure to Enjoy My Youth”

• Living Older Than His Years: Joe reflects on feeling “35 at 20” due to career demands and missed young adult rites of passage—summer flings, club nights, cheap holidays.
• He describes growing resentment at missing a conventional youth but comes to appreciate that his own version, though different, is still valuable.
  • Quote: “I think I realized last year that I was living the life of someone in their mid-30s and I was 20.” (19:48, Joe Locke)
• Letting Go: Breaking out of an overly “grown-up” relationship and learning to have more fun were key. A friend encouraged him to embrace “messy” young experiences.
• Fear of Surveillance: Joe worried about the scrutiny that comes with being in the public eye, fearing ordinary youthful mistakes would be amplified online.
  • Quote: “…My worst nightmare would have been, like, me going to a club and kissing someone and it being all over Twitter. …But I also realized no one actually gives a fuck.” (24:08–24:28, Joe Locke)

6. Searching for Acceptance and Validation

(07:55–08:29, 25:55–26:38)

• Need to Prove Himself: Joe admits to a lifelong need for likeability and acceptance, linked to growing up gay in a small community and the pressures of the industry.
• Although now more self-aware, he recognizes a lingering desire to shape others’ perceptions positively.
• People-Pleasing and Control: Both Joe and Elizabeth share personal connections to the urge to be liked, with Joe finding it hard to relinquish control over how he's perceived.

7. Raised by Women—Comfort and Bias

(26:38–28:46)

• Female Influence: Raised by his mother, aunts, and grandmother, Joe finds himself more comfortable with women and even prefers working with them—"reverse misogyny," he jokes.
• Over time, he’s learned to be more at ease in all-male environments—especially as perceptions from school turned out to be mostly unfounded.
• Quote: “I feel far more comfortable being in spaces with women than I do men.” (27:17, Joe Locke)

8. Believing in Himself (and Imposter Syndrome)

(29:49–36:26)

“Failure to Believe in Myself”

• Imposter Syndrome: Joe details feeling lucky rather than deserving—a sense that he “didn’t belong” because he hadn’t followed the traditional path through drama school.
  • Quote: “I felt like an imposter in my career because I was not handed the job. …For a long time, I felt like I didn’t necessarily belong.” (30:07–30:28, Joe Locke)
• Casting Story: A friend of his mum’s saw the Heartstopper casting call; his self-tape audition (which he refuses to let be made public!) led to chemistry reads and eventually, the role.
• Elizabeth counsels Joe on internal versus external validation. He admits much of his insecurity comes from within, not overt judgment from peers.
• Class and Opportunity: Joe reflects on the persistent class barriers in entertainment and the value of open casting in widening access.

9. Letting Himself Fail

(38:32–42:22)

“Failure to Let Myself Fail”

• Perfectionism: Joe admits he avoids activities unless he’s good at them—he even quit football as a child “after the first week” when he realized he wasn’t good at it.
  • Quote: "I'm not good at not being good at things or I don't let myself do things I'm not… very good at.” (38:42–39:07, Joe Locke)
• Fear Rooted in Small-Town Life: The pressure to fit in, combined with the visibility in a close-knit place, reinforced his reluctance to try and fail at new things.
• Learning to Embrace Failure: Recent attempts (like struggling at Pilates) have made Joe realize the value of mediocrity and doing things purely for joy—not just achievement.

10. Lessons from Failure and Looking Forward

(44:15–44:36, 29:09–29:49)

• Growth Mindset: Joe now accepts that he’s still learning and growing, and that it’s okay to not have everything figured out as a young adult.
  • Quote: “I have felt like I’ve had to be perfect and done and fully, like, ready as an adult. And I’m not there yet. And that’s fine.” (44:15, Joe Locke)
• Hopes for the Future: He dreams of a family and a slower-paced life, but is in no rush, wishing to savor what he has now.
  • Quote: “I’d love to have a family … but I can see myself wanting to slow down and enjoy my life with my, hopefully, children.” (29:09, Joe Locke)

11. Memorable and Lighthearted Moments

(45:45–46:11, 07:33–07:39)

• Eyebrow Chat: Elizabeth praises Joe’s “amazing” eyebrows, leading to banter about grooming mishaps and how his expressive brows sometimes “infringe on acting.”
• Rubik’s Cube Challenge: Joe can solve a Rubik’s Cube in under 90 seconds, a skill honed out of a desire to prove himself.
• Pilates Fun Fact: Joe proudly shares that Joseph Pilates developed Pilates while interned on the Isle of Man.

Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• “At 20, I felt like I was already 35.” (19:48, Joe Locke)
• “The only way I can be a role model is by being the true version of myself.” (05:00, Joe Locke)
• “My worst nightmare would have been me going to a club and kissing someone and it being all over Twitter. ...But I also realized no one actually gives a fuck.” (24:08–24:28, Joe Locke)
• “I felt like an imposter in my career because I was not handed the job...I didn’t necessarily belong.” (30:07–30:28, Joe Locke)
• “I feel far more comfortable being in spaces with women than I do men.” (27:17, Joe Locke)
• “I have felt like I’ve had to be perfect and done and fully, like, ready as an adult. And I’m not there yet. And that’s fine.” (44:15, Joe Locke)

Episode Structure and Timestamps

• [03:33] – Introduction to Joe Locke and his background
• [04:15] – Heartstopper’s impact and overnight fame
• [05:00] – Discussion of role model pressures
• [06:13] – Theatre and Broadway experiences
• [12:13] – Saying goodbye to Heartstopper, cast friendship
• [18:14] – Failure to enjoy his youth
• [24:08] – Social media pressure as a young celebrity
• [29:49] – Failure to believe in himself (imposter syndrome)
• [38:32] – Failure to let himself fail (perfectionism)
• [44:15] – Reflection on growth and ongoing learning
• [45:45] – Eyebrow banter and closing moments

Conclusion

This episode is a rich, honest meditation on the intersections of fame, youth, identity, and vulnerability. Joe Locke’s willingness to speak openly—about insecurities, growing pains, and learning to let go of perfection—offers relatable and empowering lessons that extend far beyond the acting world.

Recommended for anyone navigating a challenging transition, struggling with self-belief, or wanting a compassionate take on the complexities of early success and personal growth.