Jon Bon Jovi - Fame is a liar and a thief

Summary

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How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Episode: Jon Bon Jovi - Fame is a liar and a thief
Date: October 29, 2025
Host: Elizabeth Day
Guest: Jon Bon Jovi

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Episode Overview

This episode of How To Fail welcomes rock legend Jon Bon Jovi to explore the three key failures that shaped his extraordinary life and career. From almost losing his voice, to burning out a world-famous band with endless touring, and comically failing to ever become a fashionista, Jon shares candid, moving, and humorous reflections. Infused with his signature humility and honesty, the conversation covers legacy, resilience, family, fame, faith, and staying grounded through it all.

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Main Topics & Key Insights

1. Jon Bon Jovi’s Early Life & Identity

• [04:32] Jon speaks about not defining himself by his career, separating his sense of self from fame and success.

  “Performing, making records is what I do. It's not who I am.”

• [04:53] He describes humble beginnings: running errands at his cousin’s recording studio, emphasizing the value of learning from the ground up.
• [05:48] On the unique creative environment of New Jersey:

  “Growing up in the shadow of New York, that was a blessing... You had New York media... opportunity. And yet we grew up in the suburbs.”

2. Origins of Iconic Songs

• [07:55] Jon traces the writing of “Runaway” to days spent at the Greyhound bus station in his late teens, reflecting on humble origins and determination.
• [08:29] On “Livin’ on a Prayer,” Jon confides that, at first, he thought the song was just “good,” not anticipating its future impact.

  “None of us had any idea... It didn't become the magic of what the song was until we went with the band and developed that bass line.”
  “So I wasn't ready for it. I was surprised.”

3. Failure #1: Vocal Injury and the Fight for Recovery

• [13:06] Jon recounts the devastating impact of a vocal cord injury that nearly ended his singing career:

  “In 2014, the body crashed out from under me... By 2022... it's just not working anymore. And I don't understand it… The only thing that's ever been up my nose is my finger.”

• [17:40] He describes vocal cord implant surgery and the lengthy, grueling rehabilitation.
• [18:30] On re-learning how to sing:

  “I had basically seven or eight years of compensation to unwind, so they had to start from scratch, teaching me how to speak, then... make sound that sounded like singing.”

• [21:14] On resilience:

  “I would just... plow through that field until I got to the other side. When I couldn't, because I physically couldn't, that was disheartening... I would like to feel that joy and the resonance even if it were only one last time.”

4. Faith, Service, and the Importance of Giving Back

• [22:20] Jon discusses the evolution of his faith—moving from institutional Catholicism to a deeply personal spirituality.

  “My belief in spiritual journey has deepened a hundredfold.”

• [23:27] His philanthropy, including Soul Kitchen, is rooted not in religion but in worldliness, gratitude, and recognizing the privilege to serve.

  “Feeding somebody in a restaurant is no big great lift. But I know it makes an impact.”

• [25:19] Shares a story about intervening to help a stranger in crisis—even as police footage later revealed the depth of his compassion and sense of responsibility.

5. Failure #2: The Toll of Relentless Touring

• [26:39] Jon reveals the regret of pushing himself and his band too hard in pursuit of success, burning out the group more than once.

  "You should learn from your mistakes. So I've burned the band out on more than one occasion. Guilty as charged."

• [27:45] He reflects on the impact burnout had, and how every band member’s limits and needs differ.
• [29:30] The most challenging aspects of touring: for Jon, it’s the monotony of hotel rooms—not the performances, which remain a joy.
• [31:12] On fame:

  “Fame is a liar and a thief. It would be easy and understandable for many a person to have fallen victim to it... it can break you.”

6. Family, Longevity, and Love

• [32:43] Jon shares the story of meeting Dorothea, his wife from high school days, and the support she has given him through storms of fame and recovery.

  “[My wife] knows the ups, the downs, the bullshit, and the Christmas days of it all.”

• [34:14] His “mutual admiration society” with Dorothea and how healthy, respectful partnership has sustained their marriage.
• [35:52] Becoming a grandfather and how family priorities evolve as children grow up.

  “You're not the boss of anything anymore... That comes with a whole different set of rules.”

• [36:53] On parenting while being a rock star, and the blessings (and challenges) of raising children in the spotlight.

7. Friendship and Influence in Rock & Roll

• [37:47] Jon details the evolution of his relationship with Bruce Springsteen—from idolization to genuine friendship, and the unique camaraderie of being “band leaders” in the public eye.

  “By the last decade or so, I consider him to be like a really dear friend and that the two of us have been through a lot... I could say things in that kind of company... that you can't talk to about with a lot of people.”

• [41:23] Vivid recollection of how their careers intertwined in the early Jersey club scene.

8. Failure #3: Never Becoming a Fashionista

• [42:48] Jon tells hilarious stories from failed attempts at high fashion photoshoots with iconic designers, always ending up in black jeans and a T-shirt (or naked with a strategically placed blanket).

  "I want something... Now I am standing there in the buff. Okay? ... Elton's first comment to me was, 'I have the outtakes.'"

• [46:09] Admits he’s adopted “the uniform”: dirty jeans, a black T-shirt, white sneakers (“dad sneakers”), and a leather jacket.

  “I call it the uniform. These same dirty jeans that can walk to the laundry once a month... and a leather jacket.”

• [47:51] On aging, refusing cosmetic procedures, and what wisdom means to him today:

  “I had to come to terms with aging... These next couple years can be great if I'm physically right, because of the wisdom... Health is key to the universe.”

9. Reflections on Legacy and Success

• [49:28] Jon closes with a deeply personal definition of success:

  “It's not measured in terms of any numbers... Family, obviously, would be first. Keeping my family sane and together would be number one... and then the legacy, which is not only the music, but the kids and what they'll do and what they've learned and then that ripple... that matters.”

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Most Notable & Memorable Quotes

• On identity:

  “Performing, making records is what I do. It's not who I am.” [04:32]

• On “Livin’ on a Prayer”:

  “Prayer didn't sound like anything by anybody anywhere. So I wasn't ready for it. I was surprised.” [09:05]

• On burnout:

  "I've burned the band out on more than one occasion. Guilty as charged." [26:39]

• On fame:

  “Fame is a liar and a thief... It can break you.” [31:12]

• On marriage and partnership:

  “She is a complete sentence. She is a one word, complete sentence, everything.” [35:37]

• On resilience:

  “I would like to feel that joy and the resonance even if it were only one last time.” [21:14]

• On philanthropy:

  “Feeding somebody in a restaurant is no big great lift. But I know it makes an impact.” [25:10]

• On health and wisdom:

  “Health is key to the universe.” [48:48]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Early New Jersey Roots & Runaway: [04:47] – [08:29]
• Story of “Livin’ on a Prayer”: [09:05] – [10:59]
• Failure #1: Vocal Injury, Surgery & Recovery: [13:06] – [21:14]
• Faith, Philanthropy, Service: [22:20] – [25:19]
• Failure #2: Burnout & The Dark Side of Touring: [26:39] – [31:45]
• Fame, Family & Longevity: [31:12] – [37:47]
• Friendship with Bruce Springsteen: [37:47] – [41:42]
• Failure #3: Fashionista Mishaps & Uniform: [42:48] – [47:16]
• Aging, Wisdom, and Redefining Success: [47:39] – [49:28]

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Summary Tone

Throughout the episode, Jon Bon Jovi is unvarnished, wry, reflective, heartfelt, and generous with stories and advice—never shying away from his failings, always searching for meaning and growth.

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For Listeners New to Jon Bon Jovi or the Podcast

If you’ve never heard Jon Bon Jovi bare his soul like this, you’ll find a man whose legendary status is matched only by his humility. He discusses public victories, personal failures, and the deep lessons won through perseverance, making this episode rich not just with rock-and-roll history but with universal wisdom about resilience, authenticity, and the true meaning of success.

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Transcript

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I don't think I could do this anymore. I don't know why, but I'm okay with walking away from this because there's no way I'm dragging down the legacy. It wasn't that. The only thing that's ever been up my nose is my finger. I'm not doing this for the applause. I'm not doing it for the money. I'm not doing it for the fame. I've had enough of all of it.

[Elizabeth Day]

Welcome to how to Fail, the podcast that firmly believes that while success is nice, it's really failure that helps you grow. Before we get into this conversation, please do remember to subscribe so that you never miss a single episode.

[Loose Women Host]

The Loose Women podcast is back, and this time we've shaken things up a bit. In Loose Women Just Between Us, we'll be asking you to send in your juicy problems and dilemmas for our consideration.

[Elizabeth Day]

Then every week, you get two of.

[Loose Women Host]

Your favorite Loose Women or us.

[Elizabeth Day]

And what we will try and do is help you solve your problems just by drawing on our own life experience. And there's a lot.

[Loose Women Host]

So why don't you come and join us? Just search Loose Women. Just between us, we're wherever you're listening.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

To this podcast, it's Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. With Jonathan Van Ness, it's easy to feel hopeless. But we don't have to stay there. I'm all about finding places where we can turn that energy into hope and into action. One of those places is Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Americans United, or au, is this quiet but mighty force working every day to preserve freedom without favor and equality without exception. I am so obsessed with that tagline. And let me tell you something, honey, that wall between church and state, paper thin. It's got a leak, honey. It's one of the last safeguards protecting so many of our rights. So right now, from bodily autonomy to LGBTQ + rights to the future of public schools, to me, this is about creating a world where everyone gets to live as themselves. As long as you're not harming anyone else. Now is not the time to curl up and hide. It's the time to link arms and stand together for a better future. Join Americans United for Separation of Church and State and their growing movement because church, state separation protects us all. Learn more and join [e-mail] better. Let's go. Americans United.

[Elizabeth Day]

In a world of exaggeration and bias, the word legendary is often overused. But my guest today lays genuine claim to the term. He is an American singer, songwriter, guitarist, actor and philanthropist who along with his band, sold more than 130 million albums and performed in over 50 countries for more than 40 million fans before being inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fam. Born and raised in New Jersey, he ran errands at his cousin's recording studio as a teenager and started playing in local clubs at the age of 16. An early hero was local rising star Bruce Springsteen, whom he now counts as a friend. The rock band he fronted was formed in 1983 and released a string of world dominating hits including you Give Love A Bad Name, Blaze of Glory, and Living on a Prayer. He is, of course, Jon Bon Jovi.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Jon Bon Jovi. How's the English pronunciation?

[Elizabeth Day]

Gee, you can have that for free. Sample it in one of your records. So far then, so rock and roll. But there is another side to his public success. As chairman of his own NonProfit foundation since 2006, Jon Bon Jovi has focused on providing food and shelter to those in need. His Soul Kitchen encourages paying customers to make a suggested donation for their me and to cover the cost for someone in need. After undergoing vocal cord surgery that could have left him unable to sing, Bon Jovi is back with the album Legendary Edition, featuring collaborations with Bruce Springsteen, Robbie Williams, Avril Lavigne, James Bay, and many more. The band's Forever tour will kick off next year with dates in America and Europe. But Jon Bon Jovi insists that he's not an applause junkie. I do it for the joy and I do it for the art, he says. The rest of it is great because I'm good at it. But if you couldn't do it from a place of joy, what's the motivation? Jon Bon Jovi, welcome to how to Fail.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Thank you, Elizabeth. Happy to be here.

[Elizabeth Day]

I'm coming from a place of joy today, having you sitting opposite me. Thank you. Are you a believer in the fact that you are not what you do, you are something deeper entirely?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Oh, most definitely. That's not who I am. Performing, making records is what I do. It's not who I am. It's an aspect of it, but it's not the one and only aspect of it or who I am.

[Elizabeth Day]

I'm intrigued that you started out running errands at your cousin's recording studio. What kind of errands?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

A true gopher. A coffee boy. The guy that went for the burgers or the beers or the dry cleaning or whatever else anybody might need. I've gone as far as to have to go place bets on the horses, but I did. I Did. I met a second cousin who I barely knew, and thank goodness, he came to see my band, and he said to my dad, the band stink, but the kid's got something going for him. And he said, when you get out of high school, give me a call if there's anything I could ever do. And I just basically graduated high school, was playing original music and said, what can I do? And he said, you can run errands. And so I said, yeah, okay. So for 50 bucks a week, it was free, and then it was 50 bucks a week, I got to be around the studio.

[Elizabeth Day]

What do you think it is about New Jersey that has had such a creative influence on so many artists?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

It's a diverse roster when you think about Frank Sinatra to Frankie Valli to the Fugees to, of course, Bruce Springsteen to Southside Johnny and the younger generation that's come after all of us. But being in the shadow of New York City has something to do with it. Considering that my immigrant grandparents and great grandparents didn't go much further than the New York Harvard, they got off the boat and they were like, whoa, we're not going any further. We're staying right here. But growing up in the shadow of New York, that was a blessing, never a curse. You had New York media, you had access to theater, to concert venues, to radio stations that were going to be influential to opportunity. And yet we grew up in the suburbs. You know, I mean, New Jersey is so close to Manhattan. I mean, it's literally through a tunnel or a bridge, depending on how you want to look at it. But where I grew up was 35 minutes away, so that would be considered a London suburb. That's a different state altogether. I almost said a city, but we didn't have cities in New Jersey. We had your equivalent of a village.

[Elizabeth Day]

So there's that sense of sort of wanting to get somewhere that lies just beyond the horizon. Just beyond the tunnel.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Yes and no. It wasn't about wanting to go across the bridge, because you got there, because in a weird way, you always felt like you were there. But what I do believe it gave us was a chance to cut your teeth out of the spotlight. You were somewhat in the shadow, you know, you weren't asking to sneak into a club where, as I did at 16 and 17 years old, whereas in Manhattan, there was probably 40 other kinds of guys like you that were older, that were trying to vie for those same four slots in the nightclub, if you understand that. Right. So out in the suburbs of New Jersey, along these beach towns where There was bars next to bars next to bars. There was opportunity. And of course because of those who paved the way prior, especially Bruce, in the rock and roll era.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is it true that you wrote runaway age 19, in a bus station?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Closer to 20. Okay, 19, maybe closer to 20.

[Elizabeth Day]

19 and a half, yeah.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Cause it was definitely 1982. I was taking the bus to and from New Jersey from my parents house and you get out at the Greyhound station and a lot of young people my age were hanging around the Greyhound station. You know, they didn't have opportunities like I had been given to walk that 20 blocks up to the studio and back down to the bus station at the end of the day, before we.

[Elizabeth Day]

Get onto your failures, I'd be doing our listeners and myself a disservice if I didn't ask you about living on a prayer and also tell you how much that song means to me and so many countless others. And I remember where I was when I first listened to it and I remember the feeling of infectious, like freedom it gave me. It's had over 1 billion streams on Spotify. What is it, 2 billion just in America. Oh my gosh, what is that like when you listen to that song now? What's that like for you?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Well, because it was an out of body experience and I will defend my position. I'm one of three writers on it, okay. Me, Richie and Des wrote it. And on the day that we walked into this very small room, not dissimilar from this little podcast studio we're in, was teeny with an acoustic guitar, an upright piano and a notebook. None of us had any idea, you know, no great title, no great lyric, no great riff. We were gonna write a song together, okay. When the song was finished and the song was finished lyrically, the chords were what they were, the melodies were all set in stone. I personally thought, well, it's good, it's good, you know, it's telling a boy girl story. It's Shakespearean in that it's, you know, boy meets girl. Boy and girl will persevere if they work hard at it. And it didn't become the magic of what the song was until we went with the band and we developed that bass line. Now that I'm very cognizant of because I was like, no, we need something that pops, like Motown. We'd play some Motown stuff like that Sugar Pie, Honey Bunch. And then we developed that line, you know, with the octopodi. And I remember very hard working with me, Richie dez, Bruce Fairburn, the producer on what was to become that. And then the key change I fell for. Because I was young. No one in their right mind should be singing high Cs, but I did. And. And that's when the song took on another life. And just to add insult to it wasn't the first single on that album and it wasn't the first single on that album because you give love a bad name sounded like it was gonna be a radio friendly hit song. Prayer didn't sound like anything by anybody anywhere. So I wasn't ready for it. I was surprised.

[Elizabeth Day]

Before we get onto your failures, your mother was both a Marine and a playboy bunny, correct? I mean, she must be the only.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Person in the world perhaps, right? That'd be a short list.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's so cool.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I know, it's pretty co. And the older I got, the more I appreciated it because she did say to me over the course of her life, boot camp was nothing to her. And I thought, wow, you know, it wasn't until I was really much older that I realized what a tough life she had and how that she persevered and broke free of, you know, childhood traumas to go on and make a life of her own.

[Elizabeth Day]

You turned up to this podcast recording early. You're an extremely punctual man. Do you think that. Think there's an aspect of that early?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I'll go out in the line.

[Elizabeth Day]

Please don't. It just means I get extra time in your company. Do you think there's something because your dad was a Marine too? That's when your parents met, isn't it?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

It is.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is there something about that military discipline that you've inherited?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Not necessarily. It wasn't a strict military upbringing at all, but I think that you learned about commitment, dedication, perseverance, you know, in, in, in and of a long career and a long life. At this point, I've had the highest highs and I've had some pretty darn low lows. So, you know, punctuality is something that I admire because if I'm waiting on somebody, I'm cranky about it too. It's like, I'm here. How come you're not? So, I don't know. I don't mind punctuality. You could be forgiven for traffic. But if it's just sheer laziness and that's arrogance and that's terrible, you can.

[Elizabeth Day]

Be a rock and roll legend and be punctual.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

What's wrong with that?

[Elizabeth Day]

It's excellent.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

If my tickets say we're on at 7:30, you best be in your seat.

[Elizabeth Day]

Oh, my favorite kind of rock and roll star. Okay, let's get onto your failures. Your first failure is, and I alluded to it in the introduction, your vocal issues and almost losing your voice.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Tell us this story and when you first started realizing that there was something awry.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Well, in this latest chapter of the saga of this body, probably 2014, in 2013, I had a tumultuous time. Lost a band member who abruptly quit on us. The band, the crew, the fans.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

A.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Couple business dealings that didn't go the way I'd hoped they would. And we overcame that. And I did 100 shows and persevered. In 2014, the body crashed out from under me. And I wasn't even aware, but I know that when I walked by my guitar, not only didn't I touch it, but I gave it the middle finger. I wasn't at all interested in seeing my friend. And by 2015, when I was attempting to go back to work, maybe even a little bit, something just wasn't right. So this was odd for me. This wasn't just, okay, I'll beat the muscle back into shape. There was something wrong, but I couldn't figure it out. 2016, we put out a record called this House is Not for Sale. It's very much a statement record. There's a chip on my shoulder. We work, but again, physically, I'm not quite right and I don't know why. So the tour is very short after that, as we're writing what was to become 2020. And then Covid happens, you're not thinking about touring because there's no such thing. And by 2022, when the world is opening up again, I'm thinking, okay, what's the big deal? Let's go. I' the difficulties of, you know, this house is not for sale. And past Covid, like everyone else, I'm dying to get out in the world. I do what is to become a 15 show tour. And it's just not working anymore. And I don't understand it because, you know, as I in a cliched world, you know, they say, well, you know, what have you done? What excesses? It wasn't that the only thing that's ever been up my nose is my finger. It wasn't working and I willed it and I tried and I tried very hard on a daily basis. On a 15 show tour, which is practically. You don't even bring a change of socks for 15 shows, you know, it's like, that's nothing. At the end of the 15th show. I remember going into that dressing room in Nashville, Tennessee, and saying to my wife, it's pretty good. And she looked at me, she said, it wasn't. People think, oh, what a blow. It really wasn't, because she's going to tell me the truth. That day, I remember thinking to myself, well, time for a drink. I don't think I could do this anymore. I don't know why. But I'm okay with walking away from this because there's no way I'm dragging down the legacy. And that began my journey to what got me here tonight, speaking with you as I sought out a surgeon who explained to me that one of my vocal cords had literally atrophied, it was dying. And that he could do an implant surgery on the outside of the vocal cords to get them to close properly again, therefore simultaneously closing. And if I worked hard, he promised me nothing other than I would be better than I was. That night in Nashville, had I known that it was going to be a three and a half year recovery, I very well might have said, thank you, good night. But the process and the progress was steady enough that I didn't lose faith. It was just nowhere near what I thought it would be in the recovery. And then because of this record and my putting it out a year plus ago, I thought, it's a bitch to let this moment in time slip through my hands again with these last three albums. So we reimagined the record. And now and only now, am I willing to go out on a limb and say, yep, I could play some shows because I feel fully recovered or close enough to fully recovered that I have faith in the process.

[Elizabeth Day]

Thank you so much for sharing that. When you say an implant, is that. What is that?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Is that if you look closely here in the bottom of my throat, yes, there's a scar. Okay. That's where they cut. You go right through the front. They put two pieces of Gore Tex, which is plastic, outside of the vocal cords, but in the neck, that close the muscles together. Outside, every time you say a word, the muscles push the cords together and they were not firing symmetrically.

[Elizabeth Day]

And talk to me a little bit about the rehabilitation process because although you started off by saying you are not what you do, your voice is so endemic to who anyone is and your means of expression with the outside world. And I'm imagining there was a period of time where you couldn't speak, you couldn't communicate.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

It wasn't that extreme, and they told me it was going to be, but I did sound like The Godfather for a while, hey, you come and see me on this tv. Even that next day, they said, oh, you're not gonna be able to talk. And I was able to talk like that. You certainly couldn't sing, and there was no way you could sing like you sing. So the process was very slow. And then six weeks after the surgery, I could take speech pathology kind of courses, you know, to work with the speech pathologist. Now, let me equate that if. When you're walking down the street and if you had a pebble in one of your shoes at first when you said, ow, ow, ow, then eventually you would compensate by leaning on the other leg and the other shoe till you got used to that pebble being in the first shoe, and you compensate. Well, I had basically seven or eight years of compensation to unwind, so they had to start from scratch, teaching me how to speak, then how to ultimately make sound that sounded like singing, and to get better and better throughout this process. And it's a constant evolution. But I'm confident enough now to know that, you know, I can sell a ticket. I wasn't at all willing, you know, a year ago.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you think that the way you sing or speak has changed?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I think it's more the way I used to sing and speak now. And they've been able to unwind 90% of the bad habits that I'm working on the last 10.

[Elizabeth Day]

And how hard was that journey?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Well, it's like knowing it. You didn't know you had a pebble in your shoe for so long until someone took it out. You wouldn't know you had a pebble in your shoe. So I didn't know how I was at the end of a sentence going down and at the end of his sentence going down. You know, I didn't realize that. And these, these glottal strokes in your vocal cords are. And when I. And I would have to, you know, I would like kind of wind up to a notice to hit the pitch. I was starting to look like Joe cocker in that 2022 tour. Making the craziest faces and contorting my face, willing the vocal cord to get to the note that I was trying to reach. And I didn't understand why I couldn't. I do a full on stadium show four times a week now. Two hours, four days a week now. Prepping for next summer.

[Elizabeth Day]

What did this whole experience teach you about resilience?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I've always been a pretty resilient guy, and I've always had a will, you know, my wife had said in the film, which was nice for her to say he would will it into existence. I would just go and just, you know, plow through that field until I got to the other side. When I couldn't, because I physically couldn't. That was disheartening. But I didn't want to not do it. I'm not doing this for the applause. I'm not doing it for the money. I'm not doing it for the fame. I've had enough of all of it. But I would like to feel that joy and the resonance, even if it were only one last time. I don't think this is anywhere near a farewell tour or anything like that, but if it were, you can trust that these few shows that I've announced are going to be joy filled. Because this gratitude, humility, opportunity to go out there and do it again is all heartfelt.

[Elizabeth Day]

You were raised Catholic and you mention faith, albeit in a different context. In terms of your recovery, what does faith mean to you now?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Oh, a lot. Oh, it has a whole different meaning. The guilty Catholic upbringing in America had a difficult time with my relation to the organized Catholic Church the way it was in my youth and upbringing. And I was in and out of Catholic schools a couple of times in grammar school and in high school. So my relationship to it was distant. But as I got older, my relationship to God has only increased dramatically. Dramatically. And my belief in spiritual journey has deepened a hundredfold. I still don't feel the need to go to church with everybody. It's Sunday at 10:30 in the morning kind of thing. But I'm there every day myself, you know what I mean? In my mind or in my heart. And on occasion when I go there to the building.

[Elizabeth Day]

Has that informed your philanthropic activities?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Not necessarily. I think that came with travel the world travel with getting older, getting wiser, being a little more worldly made me a little more in service. Going through what I did physically, which changed the course of my life mentally, all of those things led me more and more and more to service. These are very, very, very trying times in the world. The quicker and the louder we become aware of it. And you hear people like you or I or anyone else saying it will give comfort and ease to those who don't have a microphone because anyone, everyone is going through some kind of anxiety now that we didn't have at a different time in our lives. Anxiety wasn't a word that I ever heard growing up. Wasn't a word I ever heard. 20, 30, 40, no way, no way, not even at 50. But at 63, boy, do I hear it. Young kids, older kids, grown ups, women, men, successful, non successful. We all realize, you know, this is a very trying time in the world.

[Elizabeth Day]

You really care about people, don't you?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I hope so. More and more you should, because maybe it's the access that we have to a whole planet. We see everything that goes on the way it does. Maybe it's this time in my own life, I don't know. But feeding somebody in a restaurant is no big great lift. But I know it makes an impact.

[Elizabeth Day]

The dignity of it.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Absolutely. And I don't need to be a scientist to find the cure. It's a buck that cost me for some food. Let's go.

[Elizabeth Day]

There was a very moving story that I read about you in preparation for this interview, about you interrupting the filming of a music video to talk to someone who was standing on the edge of a bridge, possibly about to take their own life. And you had a conversation with that person.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Yeah, people were walking right by this woman and the lady that was standing, you know, imagine I in this scene on the bridge, you know, I'm shooting a music video. So they're like, everyone get out of the way. And there's only one PA who's basically holding a little speaker so I could hear timing for the music video. The lady then said to me, that girl's on the wrong side of the banister. So we went over to her on the side of the bridge and. And I spoke to her and was able to convince her to come back onto the right side of the bridge. Yeah, I wouldn't have ever mentioned it to the world if the police hadn't released the film footage because they had an observation kind of tower viewing the bridge.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, if you save one person's life, your own life is deeply meaningful. So your second failure is not saying no to grueling touring in the early years and the impact of that.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Yeah, I've come to terms with that because I've done it more than once, you know, if anything. And you should learn from your mistakes. So I've burned the band out on more than one occasion. Guilty as charged. You know, in retrospect, had I really learned from the first time, which I claim to have done it, and then didn't realize when I did it the second time, that it was too much for some people to handle, you know, I have to live with that. But the first time, I think it's because you're young, your nose is to the grindstone, you get to the Absolute peak of success. And it's not anything other than, wow, was that fun? I gotta do it again. So it burned us out. The real gift would have been had I learned from that mistake fully at that time. The second time I did it was another, oh, my goodness gracious, 23 years later. And it was too much for, you know, for some of the people in the band.

[Elizabeth Day]

Was it too much for you? What does burnout look like for you?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I was having a really good time the second time. I just thought it was actually going swimmingly well, you know, physically, I was feeling incredible. We were having success, we were getting along, but everyone's journey's different, you know, And I thought everything was peachy and it wasn't, you know, so this I have to live with. And then you go on from there and you come to realize you're going to continue to make mistakes. It's just how you deal with them on the other side that you can admit it, face truths. It's not your story, it's the story. You're going to tell this story of tonight's interview differently than I will.

[Elizabeth Day]

What is a grueling tool for you?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Back in those days, it was 240 shows in a year, back to back. Another 240 shows a year later with a new album and five more top 10 singles. I don't care how young you are, that Superman tattoo is just a tattoo. It's not real. Wow. It was a lot. So of course it made sense that at the end of New Jersey we were exhausted. But at the end of 2013, when Richie quit and, you know, he's so. I should have realized that that was too much for some people.

[Elizabeth Day]

What's the most challenging thing? As someone who is not a rock and roll star, who hasn't been on that kind of tour ever, what's the most challenging thing about being on tour? Is it the travel? Is it the company?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Now, for some people, it's the not being able to travel. For some people, it's the quiet of home.

[Elizabeth Day]

Huh.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

That's not my issue.

[Elizabeth Day]

Oh, that's interesting, right?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Yeah. For some people, more like me, it was, I hate the hotel room and the club sandwich and the grueling, you know, schedule of the interview and the tour and the blah, blah, blah, you know. For others, it was the quiet of being home. It depends on who you are.

[Elizabeth Day]

Was it ever the performance for you personally? Was that a bit of a.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

No, no, I never hated the performance. Even if I, you know, in the, in the broken page of the Book when, you know, in that 2022 tour, it was painful, but I wanted to be there. I was trying to break through to that other side. It was like trying to break through the stone wall to see light through the other side. I thought if I kept doing would get better because I had exhausted every other trick and I didn't have any. Anyone else, a doctor or somebody else to say, no, no, no, this ain't going to get better.

[Elizabeth Day]

Does it always feel exciting when you are going. Does it not when you're going on stage in front of thousands of people?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

You know, jet lag or tedium or, you know, you're cranky because your team lost. You know, I mean, no, it's. There's a human element, but you have to remember that the people that are in the seats, this is the night they've been waiting for. And so you have to do your very best to go out there and be your very best, even if you're not having a great day. Not that we ever faked it, but some days, you know, your tummy hurts. You know what I mean?

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

You're going to be out there with a tummy ache. You know, it's just what it is. So you do the best you can with what you have.

[Elizabeth Day]

How do you feel about fame?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Fame is a liar and a thief. It would be easy and understandable for many a person to have fallen victim to it. And traditionally, over the years, you've seen it. You know, whether it's in movies or music or, you know, people that get addicted to it, they find it to be alluring, but really, it doesn't care who you are, it can break you. I was never drawn to any of this because of that. That wasn't why I wanted to do it.

[Elizabeth Day]

If you'd had a choice to do what you do, but without the fame, without any recognition but you could still do it, would you have chosen?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

No, no, no. Let me be perfectly clear. I'm good at what I do on the stage, and we're very good at what we do on the stage. When I'm there, I love that resonance between me and the band and me and the song and me and the band and the song and the me and the audience, but it isn't about, look at me. It's not about, you know, I'm ready for my close up, Mr. DeMille. No. You know, I really do compartmentalize each and every aspect of it, but it's not an addictive thing for me.

[Elizabeth Day]

I imagine that the grueling touring Also had an impact on your family life. And one of the things that is wonderful about you is that you have this long marriage with Dorothea, who you met at school. Tell us the story of how you met.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

She was sitting next to me in history class, and she was the girlfriend of one of my closest friends who had graduated and joined the Navy. And I never met her until we were in that history class and he was gone to the Navy. So this is, you know, six, eight months after he's joined, and I'm there in class, and I was like, oh, yeah, I just fell head over heels even then. We eventually, you know, started to date and he had gone. Moved on, if you will. And I never looked back. So my home life never suffered as a result of my success in my journey. But it also has been a great benefit to me in a number of ways of support, obviously, but also because we've been through the entire roller coaster ride together, that she knows the ups, the downs, the bullshit, and the Christmas days of it all. So there's no explaining it to her. There's no me wondering, who is this person that's gotten on the ride and why is the. What's the motivator for her? So all of those things have been so helpful to me. Yeah. I'm the only guy that's been married to the same girl in the band. Past, present. John Shanks has been married to Colleen, and, you know, he's the producer of the band. But other than that, everybody been married multiple times, and I've been blessed.

[Elizabeth Day]

Why do you think it's worked? What advice would you give to someone in my life?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Mutual admiration society.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

It started there. Immense respect, always just because I was in awe of her. She was more well read than I was. She was more worldly than I was. I had a drive that no one else had. We complemented each other in that way. We weren't competitive in any of that. So it was a great partnership, and we weren't jealous of each other in any way.

[Elizabeth Day]

And was she a great support when you were undergoing all of this rehabilitation?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Let me tell you, she deserves extra pay for psychiatry and psychology. And there was dark nights of, you know, emotions and anxieties. That, again, wasn't about being out there. It was about recovering. It was the holy hell of it all. Yeah, it wasn't easy.

[Elizabeth Day]

How do you think she'd describe you in three words? You can't say Jon Bon Jovi.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Yeah, right. Thank you. You did that for me? I don't know. You'd have to ask her, I really don't know. You'd have to ask her.

[Elizabeth Day]

How would you describe her?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I once said, and I really loved it, I said this. She is a complete sentence. She is a one word, complete sentence, everything.

[Elizabeth Day]

Aw.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

You are now a father and a grandfather.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

What has that taught you about yourself?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Well, I'll let you know more about the babies in time because Jake and Millie adopted a beautiful baby girl three months ago. And Jesse and his wife Jesse are expecting a baby any minute now. So we'll have two of them for these holidays, but they're brand new. The chapter in the book of parenting for me is crazy because although we have four kids and we're blessed that they're all healthy, the difference between them being kids under our roof and them being four adults and how different yet the same they are is sort of like, mind blowing and expands. You know how you parent and you have to learn that I'm not the boss of anything anymore, and I'm not even being cute about that. You're like, holy shit, what do you mean? You have an opinion, but, you know, you're not the boss of anything anymore. That comes with a whole different set of rules.

[Elizabeth Day]

And what was it like when they were younger and you were on the road a lot?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

They would come for periods in time, like they'd come here. They'd always come to the UK because it was London. They'd go to Dublin. They're not gonna be in Tokyo and they're not gonna be in Iowa, but they would come to the couple glamorous places for a week's vacation somewhere. They were always very aware of who and what, you know, daddy was and what he did because they were born into it. And I think there was the blessing and the curse of being my kids. He didn't know who to judge as being real friends and whose mom. He wanted to get to meet me, you know, but it helped them, too, you know, can't deny that it gave him opportunity.

[Elizabeth Day]

I'd love to talk to you about your friendship with Bruce Springsteen and the moment that you felt he was a friend rather than someone who you look. Yes, exactly. Looked up to from a distance.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

That's a good question. I don't know. Let me think.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is that him calling right now?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Yeah. No Spam Risk? Oh, no.

[Elizabeth Day]

Even John Bon Jovi gets Spam Cools.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

From South River, New Jersey. Wow. When I was very young, Bruce jumped up on stage and in New Jersey. I mean, he's the king of all of the rock and roll. Bands that ever came out of there. Right. And of course, someone I looked up to and loved his records and all that kind of good stuff. And the first time he jumped up on a stage with me is 1979, but we weren't buddies. I was singing one of his songs. I would say that through the 80s I got a couple atta boys. By the late 90s, I was still persistent. So I got a little more of this and that early 2000s, we became friendly. But by the last decade or so, I consider him to be like a really dear friend and that the two of us have been through a lot. And in truth, I mean, I could say things in that kind of company. And he could say things back to me that you can't talk to about with a lot of people. Being a boss, being a band leader, being a guy that people know and you're going to say things publicly or, you know, so, you know, you're out there. And he's still somebody I admire greatly. So I also hold him in that kind of esteem.

[Elizabeth Day]

Have you seen the Bruce Springsteen movie with Jeremy on the wall?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I sat next to him in the, you know, the two. He had a screening for family and friends. He said, you're sitting next to me. Yeah, the crazy, crazy thing about the film, it's written about a period in 1982. That's the summer I write Runaway. If you've seen the film, for those who have seen it on Sunday nights in Asbury park in 1982, remember, this is after four albums. He's already Bruce, you know, but it's pre Born in the usa so he's big, but he's not to the common, common, common guy, you know. Bruce. Yeah. Anyway, I'm a young kid. I just write Runaway. Sunday night is my night to play at the Fast Lane, which is the original band bar, the Stone Ponies, where the COVID bands played jukebox music. He would go there every Sunday night. Well, imagine what that did to the audience of the original Band Bar. We went from 200 to 150 to 100 to 75 to 60 to. We got to go on at like 7:30 or 8:00 clock because everybody's queuing at the COVID band Bar knowing that he's going to show up on that same Sunday night to play with the COVID band. As I'm sitting in the movie theater with him, I say, you see the crowd as your, you know, fictional characters playing. I'm in the crowd because my bar closed, you know, because we would all jokingly go and know that you're going to play with the band and then they're in the recording studio and they're working up the songs from Born in the usa. That is literally the room that I record Runaway in that summer. Wow. You know, those burgers and Cokes on the. On the console would have been the Cokes and the burgers that I was fetching.

[Elizabeth Day]

Huh?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

You see? So that's so.

[Elizabeth Day]

It must have been so moving.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Well, as I'm sitting with it, you know, we're sitting in this movie theater, I go, this is a time machine. That's what it's a time machine. And it'd be sitting here some 43 years later, you know, and of course, his being him and me still being him.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Wow.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Was cute.

[Elizabeth Day]

And does Jeremy Allen White do a good job?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

He does a very good job. You know, because this book that Bruce had given me a number of years ago, because he was impressed by the book, he's like, here, read this. You know, it's not like he would give me a book about him and go, read this book about me. But he's like, here, read this. I think you'll enjoy it. I couldn't put it down. And then, of course, he's been approached to have movies made about him time and time again. This was the way he wanted to tell his story. And not about the grandeur, but about the guy. And I think that Jeremy did a nice job of what the public facing stuff was. Who knew about the depression? Who knew about those other things? How could we? You know, we only knew him as that guy.

[Elizabeth Day]

Will there ever be a Jon Bon Jovi movie?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

He'd never say never, because it's not that again. I'm not seeking it out. I've been approached a number of times, countless times. Who knows? Could there be. It depends on what the script would be.

[Elizabeth Day]

Because you also had a very successful acting career.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I could play myself.

[Elizabeth Day]

You could play yourself. But actually, that brings us onto your third failure, which did make me laugh, because alongside the successful acting career, you also had a chance to be a fashionista. And you say that your third failure is failing to be a fashionista?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Not for me to this day, as I'm promoting a record and about to go back on the road. If a magazine that does all that fashion and stuff and says, wear these tent suits and you could be in our magazine, the answer is absolutely not, no. But I do remember a cute story many years ago when Gianni Versace was still alive and they did these crazy campaigns, and one was with Madonna playing poker with a bunch of dogs. And if you remember this, you know, it was a crazy campaign. It was right after she had done, like, a book with her Brits and, you know, all these wonderful, you know, pictures of her and these nudes and stuff. And we're in South America, and I'm. I'm playing these stadiums, and Donatello Versace is down there. And I had, you know, got to know them a little bit over the course of the years and been invited to the odd fashion show, which I couldn't quite understand. And Bruce Weber, the famous photographer, is there. And I said, you know those pictures with. With Madonna and the dogs? And he says, we want to take your picture come tomorrow. I said, yeah, I want to do something crazy good. And I got there, and they said, here's his black jeans. Okay, okay. Here's a black T shirt. Okay, okay. He goes, put them on. Okay, okay. Now I'm waiting for something. He says, put your hands in your pockets. Click, click, click. There's the campaign. We're done.

[Elizabeth Day]

You're like, where are the dogs? Playing poker.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Give me something. So the campaign comes out. Very nice pictures. Okay, Bruce, that was fun. So then Donatello comes to me again, and she says, would you like to do it again? This time with Richard Avedon? The very world famous Richard Avedon? And I says, yes, damn it, but I want something. So I go into Avedon's studio. Now I'm fully expecting black jeans and a black T shirt. He says, take your clothes off. I'm like, sugar, I'm the one that told them I wanted something. Now I am standing there in the buff, okay? And he says, wrap this blanket around your waist. Take the pictures. Now I am buck naked. They take. The pictures go away. In my 30s, I was pretty buffed. I look pretty good. Pictures come out. Great campaign goes out. I'm cool with it. I've learned my lesson. Shut up. Don't say things like this ever again. I run into Elton John. Elton's first comment to me was, I have the outtakes.

[Elizabeth Day]

Amazing. Amazing.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Jesus Christ. Because you're buck naked with a blanket wrapped around you. I have the outtake. Son of a bitch. Only Elton can get away with that. That was the end of it. I have no desire. I don't get fashion. I don't care for fashion. I don't want to know from fashion. I did love Gianni Versace. I wanted to do something like that with them, for them, but that was the end of it.

[Elizabeth Day]

Would you say that you now have a Uniform. So just toy.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I call it the uniform.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, so what is it?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

These same dirty jeans that can walk to the laundry once a month. A black T shirt and a pair of white sneakers, usually, which I've been chastise over. They call them dad sneakers now, which really bummed me out. And a leather jacket that is my uniform. All Saints T shirts, framed jeans, these white shoes that used to be that golden goose, but now I'm too cheap to pay for them. And this leather jacket.

[Elizabeth Day]

I feel like they would send you some.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

John, if we can put it out, maybe they might.

[Elizabeth Day]

Who was chastising you about the white shoes?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

The kind of girls that get your clothes at photo sessions. They're like, those are dad sneakers. You can't wear them anymore.

[Elizabeth Day]

Now, did I hear you say you wash your jeans once a month?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, this is interesting because. What? The regularity with which one washes denim is a very personal thing, but also it has a real impact on the way you wear your clothes, I think. And I would err on the side of once a month too.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Oh, thank you.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I thought I was about to be chastised for that.

[Elizabeth Day]

No.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Well, it's probably not once a month, but it's certainly once every two weeks, for sure. If maybe, you know, I mean, if.

[Elizabeth Day]

You'Re performing in them, maybe not that.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

But, you know, because you wash them, you dry them, they have a different fit, right? Then they get broken in and they're just right until the point where they're a little too baggy and then they gotta go, you know, or there's Cheetos being wiped on them one too many times.

[Elizabeth Day]

When you look back at those sort of early forays into being a fashionista and you see those photos of yourself, how do you feel now, looking back on them? How do you feel about aging?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Well, I'm fine with it. I'm not gonna ever get work done. And my hair is gray. And at least I still have all my hair. I haven't had any surgeries, operations, Botox injections, eye jobs or lip jobs or whatever the hell else you do these days. I'm not interested in any of that, nor would I do it. I had to come to terms with having gray hair. But when I was starting to come from that age and they would put hair color in, I hated that. So I just said, screw it, like 12, 13 years ago. I wouldn't do that. And so I had to come to terms with aging. You know, I just, you know, I look at my pictures of me now, I'M not happy about it. I look at 30, 40, 50, and I go, yeah, I'd like to rather look like that, but I don't.

[Elizabeth Day]

You look great.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Thanks. You do.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

You always.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

You're 63 years old, you know.

[Elizabeth Day]

But. And how. What do you think is the greatest gift that aging has given you?

[Jon Bon Jovi]

Oh, wisdom. These next couple years can be great if I'm physically right, because of the wisdom. The roller coaster ride of getting punched in the face forces you to take stock in any and everything. And health, of course, is number one on the list. You can always make a buck. You can always write another song, but your health is key to the universe.

[Elizabeth Day]

This podcast is obviously all about failure and what we learn from it. But I wonder if I could finish by asking you, Jon Bondrovi, what you now consider to be successful.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

It's not measured in terms of any numbers. Numbers don't mean it. They're not relevant relationships. Family legacy, I think, and not necessarily in that order. Family, obviously would be first. Keeping my family sane and together would be number one, friends or few and far between. So when you do have that five, you can count on. I have a few more than five because I do count this band and then the legacy, which is not only the music, but the kids and what they'll do and what they've learned and then that ripple that matters.

[Elizabeth Day]

Jon Bon Jovi, thank you so much for coming on how to Fail.

[Jon Bon Jovi]

I appreciate this. Thank you. It was fun.

[Elizabeth Day]

Please do follow how to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends this is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.