Michelle Yeoh - On typecasting, fertility and THAT Oscars speech

Summary

Podcast Summary: How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Episode: Michelle Yeoh – On typecasting, fertility and THAT Oscars speech
Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Elizabeth Day
Guest: Michelle Yeoh

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Overview

This episode of How To Fail features the groundbreaking actress Michelle Yeoh, whose illustrious career has ranged from kung fu cinema and Bond franchises to making Oscar history. In the spirit of the show, Yeoh intimately explores three “failures”—stage fright, Hollywood typecasting, and a life-altering stunt accident—sharing lessons learned, her resilience, and how perceived failures have shaped her as an artist and a person. With humor, humility, and insight, Yeoh also reflects on familial expectations, fertility struggles, her mother’s influence, and the cultural importance of her Oscar win.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On Joining "Wicked" and Being Surrounded by Love

• [06:16] Michelle describes filming Wicked as a grounding experience, providing "a solid foundation of love and serenity" during the pressure of Oscar season. She fondly refers to the cast as her “wicked, wicked family.”
• Reticence about singing: Initially wary about taking a singing role, Yeoh was encouraged by Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande. Cynthia supported her confidence during recordings.
  • Quote: “I know you can do this. I’ve heard you sing, so please sing.” – Cynthia to Michelle ([09:21])

2. Family, Early Failure, and Finding Her Voice

• [10:49] Michelle’s mother is described as a forceful but glamorous presence—supportive, but also instilling a tendency to please others at the expense of self-confidence.
• Divorce and finding her voice: Michelle recounts standing up to her traditional mother during her divorce ([12:48]).
  • Quote: “If you love him so much, why don’t you marry him?” – Michelle, to her mother ([12:55])

3. Fertility Struggles & Redefining Failure

• [13:37] Both host and guest discuss their personal experiences with infertility. Michelle reflects on the sense of failure imposed by traditional expectations and her journey to acceptance.
• Redefining motherhood: With the love of godchildren and an extended family, she learned "to love in another form."
  • Quote: “At that point, I did feel like a failure of a woman... Why have I been singled out?” – Michelle ([14:25])
  • On moving forward: “It shouldn’t be a feeling of loss... finding yourself and believing that you can move forward.” ([14:42])

4. Lessons on Relationships

• [16:11] Yeoh shares her approach to step-grandparenthood and describes her strong, non-competitive marriage. She stresses the importance of mutual respect and individuality in relationships.

5. Failure 1: Stage Fright

• [20:37] Michelle’s first declared failure is stage fright—not when performing physically, but when required to speak publicly, in any language.
  • Golden Globes anecdote: During her acceptance, nerves overtook her so much that she swore on stage:
    • Quote: “Everything goes. I forget my name. I don’t know what I’m there for. The first word... was shit. Then I realized... and turned back around and said, fuck.” ([21:23])
• Oscars Speech: Despite nerves, her heartfelt acceptance made global waves, particularly for Asian representation.
  • Quote: “It came from here. It really did.” ([23:41])

6. On Representation, Immigrant Stories, and "Everything Everywhere All At Once"

• [24:36] Discussion of the importance of roles like Evelyn (her Oscar-winning part):
  • “They’re everywhere… They’re not seen, they’re not heard… almost, like, voiceless.” – Michelle, on Chinese-American laundromat owners in popular culture ([24:36])
• Insisted Evelyn not be named "Michelle": To ensure the character had her own distinct identity ([26:10])
• On growing up in multicultural Malaysia: Michelle credits her wide worldview to her upbringing and her parents' values ([27:00]).

7. Failure 2: Typecasting and Stereotypes

• [31:27] In early Hong Kong and Hollywood work, she was typecast into roles such as the “damsel in distress” or limited Asian stereotypes.
  • On breaking barriers: Michelle pushed to do action roles, using her physical prowess to avoid cliché parts ([32:15]).
• With Jackie Chan:
  • Quote: “He’s a little macho... no, no, don’t let her jump on the motorcycle…” ([33:43])
  • Reflects on the adrenaline and danger of performing difficult stunts herself, “I would never do it again.” ([34:07])
• On Name Changes: Marketing her films required changing her name to 'Michelle Khan' to appeal to western audiences until encouraged by Barbara Broccoli to use her own.
• Hollywood Roles Post-Bond: Despite expectations after Tomorrow Never Dies, many offers remained typecast, so she turned them down for two years ([38:29]).
  • “Suddenly I was a minority... it was the first time it struck me.” ([38:29])
  • On limited roles: “Chinatown, right? Or a waiter in a Chinese restaurant… The most important thing is to be seen doing ordinary things, normal things, even positions of power.” ([40:05])

8. Experiencing Racism Even After Success

• [41:33] Has experienced forms of racism throughout her career, though directness has decreased with her success.
  • Quote: “I would be lying if I say no.” ([41:33])
  • Calls for compassion and kindness to counter judgmental tendencies.

9. Failure 3: Stunt Accident

• [45:13] Details a traumatic accident on set while performing a complicated stunt, playing a stuntwoman in a film directed by Ann Hui.
  • Incident: Was pushed off a flyover, landed on head/neck, and ended up in a full body cast for months.
    • “My head going into here. My legs came from behind me… On fire. Everybody thought, this is it.” ([49:34])
  • Learning limits: The accident made her reconsider performing dangerous stunts and the importance of self-protection.
• Quentin Tarantino’s Visit: During recovery, Tarantino’s enthusiasm rekindled her passion for filmmaking.
  • “He reminded me of why I loved filmmaking so much. It’s a passion, not just a job.” ([53:02])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On failure and resilience:
  • “When you're down, you learn. You become resilient, you become stronger and you learn from mistakes. Don't wallow in them.” – Michelle ([17:57])
• On womanhood and motherhood:
  • “It shouldn’t be a feeling of loss… finding yourself and believing that you can move forward.” – Michelle ([14:42])
• On Oscars speech nerves:
  • “Everything goes. I forget my name… The first word that came out was shit… then fuck.” – Michelle ([21:23])
• On having the right people:
  • “Find your people. Please don’t walk alone... You have a much better time.” ([55:00])
• On breaking stereotypes:
  • “Why do I need saving? What is it about that? It’s heroic for the guys, but for us, it’s kind of boring.” ([31:45])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:16] – Finding comfort on the Wicked set
• [10:49] – Michelle’s mother and early upbringing
• [13:37] – Fertility struggles and redefining motherhood
• [17:57] – On resilience and moving beyond failure
• [20:37] – Failure 1: Stage fright
• [24:36] – Cultural importance of Everything Everywhere All At Once
• [31:36] – Failure 2: Typecasting and industry stereotypes
• [33:43] – Jackie Chan’s advice and early stunts
• [38:29] – Discrimination and the "minority" experience in Hollywood
• [41:33] – Experiencing racism, compassion as a remedy
• [45:13] – Failure 3: Stunt accident and recovery
• [53:02] – Tarantino’s visit and reigniting her passion
• [54:07] – Reflecting on failure and resilience

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Closing Reflections

Michelle Yeoh reframes her so-called failures as pivotal lessons. Stage fright taught humility; typecasting taught persistence and the value of representation; her injury taught self-preservation and reignited her passion. Her story embodies resilience, the necessity of community, and the courage to embrace every direction failure can take us.

"There are ups and there are downs, but each... taught me to be more resilient, taught me to be smarter... Moving on, always in motion." – Michelle Yeoh ([54:10])

Transcript

[Michelle Yeoh]

When you're down, you learn. You become resilient, you become stronger and you learn from mistakes. Don't wallow in them. I held my arms out like that. Luckily I had a big gown on and went oh my God. I was sweating. It was just dripping because I was so scared.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes, hello and welcome to how to Fail. This is the podcast that believes that failure shows us who we truly are and what we're really made of. Before we get started on this conversation, please do remember to subscribe and follow so that you never miss a single episode. I know from experience that starting your own business can be super intimidating and can feel really isolating. So I empathize with those of you who are currently feeling that way. However, I've got a tool for you that can simplify everything and make you feel less alone. For millions of businesses, that tool is so Shopify Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel to brands Just getting started. Get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, Sign up for your pound one per month trial and start selling today at shopify.co.uk fail. Go to shopify.co.uk fail.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Hey everybody, it's Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better with Jonathan Van Ness. If you care about protecting real religious freedom for people of all religions and for people who don't want to believe in any religion, there is an event that's happening for you. I need it on your radar. The Summit for Religious freedom or the SRF pronounced sir. It's three days of connection, strategy and action in Washington, D.C. and online April 25th to 27th. You'll hear from authors, lawyers and policymakers. Join an organizing institute to level up your skills and even do a hill Day to meet your representatives and tell them why church state separation matters. You guys, this isn't just a conference, it's a community on the move. If you're looking for a way to get off the sidelines and into this fight of pushing back against Christian nationalism and building a future where LGBTQ + rights, reproductive freedom, and strong public schools are protected, this is for you. This is a movement for big change and collaboration that strengthens our democracy, protects public schools, reproductive and LGBTQ plus rights, and more. Come, learn, organize and leave with a plan and friends. You can learn more@the srf.org Michelle Yeoh.

[Elizabeth Day]

Has created a legendary body of work that defies easy categorization, from cult classic kung fu cinema to blockbuster Bond flicks and Oscar winning sci fi leads. In fact, it was her turn as a harassed laundry owner in 2023's everything everywhere all at Once that made her the first Asian woman to be given the Academy Award for Best Actress. At the time, Yeoh said in a moving acceptance speech that for all the little boys and girls who look like me watching tonight, this is a beacon of hope and possibilities. Her story began 63 years ago in Malaysia, where she was born, surrounded by mountains and nature. Her first love was ballet, which she learned from the age of four before going to England to attend dance school in Chester. At the age of 15, a spinal injury put paid to her dreams of turning professional. But back home, her mother entered Yeoh into the Miss Malaysia competition, which she won. From there, she made the leap into action movies, literally with her impressive physical prowess. Yeoh performed her own stunts opposite the legendary Jackie Chan, including landing an aerial motorcycle jump onto the top of a speeding train in 1992's Supercop. She was cast as a Bond girl in Tomorrow Never Dies, then starred in the global box office hit Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. For many of us, Yeoh will also be best known for her performances as Eleanor, the chilling future mother in law in Crazy Rich Asians, and as Madame Morrible in the Wicked films. This month sees her returning to the role in Wicked for good. In her seventh decade then, Yeo is as busy and in demand as ever. Her continuing and well deserved success recalls something else she once remarked. With every turn, with every twist and with every role, I simply said, why not? I will commit totally. I will do my best. I will be brave and unafraid of failure. Michelle Yeoh, welcome to how to Fail.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Thank you for having me. And what a title, how to Fail. Normally people go for how to be the most successful, the most rich, and this and that. And it's like how to Fail.

[Elizabeth Day]

Were you surprised when you got the request to come up with you?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Yes, I was like, is there really a program called how to Fail? But actually it's so important because you really have to be brave and not afraid to fail because otherwise you live through life doing nothing.

[Elizabeth Day]

Exactly. Well, failure helps you grow because otherwise you never take the risk. And I am so honored to be sitting opposite you. I really am. Having followed your career as a fan, having watched your Oscars acceptance speech and cried with your words, and also having followed Some of the things that you've said about failure over the course of your life, it feels magical to be in your presence. So thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. How is it being back in the world of Wicked? Is it as much fun to film as it looks to us as viewers?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is it?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, my God, yes. And actually, Wicked, while we were filming Wicked, it gave me a solid foundation of love and serenity because that was the time when we were campaigning for the Oscars with everything everywhere all at once. So I was flying between New York and LA and London, back and forth, back and forth for all the. And it is. It is a huge thing to believe in your movie and support each other with my cast members, you know, and then when I came back, it was just like, straight into the loving arms of Cynthia and Ariana and Jeff and Jonathan and you go, like, I'm okay. Yeah, I'm back here. I'm with my family. My wicked, wicked family. Yes. And even though I was the wicked Madame Morrible, they still loved me.

[Elizabeth Day]

I was going to ask you that, actually, because you're so good at playing mean. You're so good at playing mean because. And now, having met you, even within five minutes, you seem like the most beautiful, lovely person. And when you're playing mean with people who are your friends in real life.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, it's fun.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's fun.

[Michelle Yeoh]

It's so much more fun because, you know, you get to do all these crazy things and. But I do say to. I do ask John. I'm like, why do you think, Michelle Yeoh. When you think someone mean? And, you know, I remember when we were doing Crazy Rich Asians where I played Eleanor the mother, right? And he said, you, eyes turn black when you said to her, you'll never be enough like John, Seriously. And of course, he calls me horrible. You see, that's it. You think I'm horrible. He's like my adopted son. I love him to death. So that was an incredible journey. And there was also humor in it. I think that was what I truly loved about John's focus on each character had their moment of emotional depth, but at the same time, there was always a little bit of fun and humor and it comes across, you know, so going on that set is just. That's always singing, dancing.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, I was about to ask you about the singing because you were very reticent at first to say yes, weren't you? Because you knew you had to sing.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Called John and said, hello, this is a musical, right. And you Know I don't sing. Right. And the next thing I knew, he sent a video of. He says, I have two special friends who wanted to say hello to you, and they want you to, well, listen to them. So it was Ariana and Cynthia, and we had not met before at that point, and they said, michelle, it's imperative that you come and join us now. I mean, how do you say no to Ariana and Cynthia?

[Elizabeth Day]

Exactly.

[Michelle Yeoh]

But I must say, my first singing experience was really supported and encouraged by Cynthia. She really, really helped me out there because, you know, when you hear them, they're like angels. And so then when we were doing our song together, the wizard and I, and thanks to her, I'm actually on Billboard 100.

[Elizabeth Day]

Oh, yeah? Yes.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Because Cynthia's song got on there and I did a little intro with her, Right. And so when we were singing it, and the girls always sing Life, even though Cynthia is like, how many feet in the air and doing somersaults? She is singing Life. She's amazing. And I remember when I start the song, I literally just squeaked it because, you know, we had recorded it and just to give you a sense of comfort. And Cynthia came up to me and she held my hand and she said. She looked at me and she said, I know you can do this. You know, I've heard you sing, so please sing. So, you know, I listen to her.

[Elizabeth Day]

We are so grateful to her and to you.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, yes, I'm grateful to her.

[Elizabeth Day]

I wonder if we could talk about your mother.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, my God, that's a real character there. I mean, she is the real diva here.

[Elizabeth Day]

I mentioned in the introduction, because you had this experience very early on of failure, actually, when you were 17 and you thought you were going to be a ballerina, but you. You had an injury, and it was your mother who entered you to Miss Malaysia and sort of changed the course of your career. How important has your mother been to you?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Well, she's a force, you know, full stop. I mean, she is very dynamic. She's 84 now, but if you saw a photograph of her, you'd think she was, like, in her early 70s. And she's always glamorous, always dressed up, and she would look at me and go, like, are you going out like that? I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to the gym, Mom. You know, seriously. And she's always been like this. Just remember reminding you to look your best, be at your best, and all that. And sometimes I think it's good to have that, but sometimes it also Makes you. I was a people pleaser. You know, I was afraid to do things or say things that might sound wrong or sound right. And it undermined your. You would think that it would make you more confident, but actually it undermines it a bit because every time you're going like, oh, I don't look right, I. You know, for fear of sounding not smart enough or something like this. But I also feel that, you know, with Asian parents, especially moms, they try to have their children be seen and not heard. And we will always, you know, the girls should behave like girls, like, you know, not make loud noises and things like that. But so my mom instilled that in us, and it took me a while to go to her and say, actually, it's not true. You know, we can. We can't speak our minds, and we don't always have to agree with what everybody else is saying. And it is important that I believe in myself in that way rather than just say yes, because, you know, that doesn't rock the boat. I think she would have made the perfect diva. She would have made the. She sings beautifully. She. She would have been a great actress.

[Elizabeth Day]

When did you find your own voice and the courage to say that to your mother? How old were you?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, I was. I think at that time, I think I was getting my divorce.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay. Yes.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Because, you know, she's very traditional, and she was going like, no, no, no, you should just listen to your husband. And I'm like, no. I'm like, okay, if you love him so much, why don't you marry him?

[Elizabeth Day]

This is your first husband? Yes, Dibson. And we'll perhaps get onto it a little bit as it pertains to some of your failures. But one of the reasons I was so looking forward to meeting you today is because we have a story in common. I also got divorced, and I also tried and failed to have children.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Ah, then we have something a lot in common in that way.

[Elizabeth Day]

And I feel so grateful to you for talking about that particular story, because you can only understand it if you've been through it.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Yeah. Yes. Yes. And my mom didn't understand that at that point. So, you know, so it did. And I think it's something that you. First of all, you have to be brave enough to accept and not feel like a failure. And at that point in my life, I did feel like that. I did feel like, you know, I'm supposed just to do one thing. Women, all women are capable of. Why am I not? Why have I been singled out to. Did I do Something wrong. And you know, we. And that's the thing is like mom put the fear of karma into you. You must have done something wrong. You didn't do this. Right. So that's why you're paying for this in that way and this way. And you go like, no, stop. Because I don't believe that. And if I did something wrong in my past life, I hope I paid for it then.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes, right.

[Michelle Yeoh]

And so. But we do believe that, you know, good will pay forward with good. So at that point, I did feel like a failure of a woman. You know, this is like one of the most natural things for women to be able to do. And I think when you come to accept the fact that it's not your failure, you know, we all have different physicalities. Some, but some are very, very different indeed. And it shouldn't be a, a feeling of loss in that way. So finding yourself and believing that, you know, you can move forward. Because nowadays I was very lucky. My sister in law said, he'll have one of my children. And I'm like, okay, guys, stay back. And then my best girlfriends, they were like, so now I have six godchildren. You know, at that point they were all sharing their children with me. And I think from there I learned love in another form. Right. It's like, how did you cope with yours?

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, so beautifully put. I think I've realized that you can feel sadness and be at peace with that sadness. And that the sadness is part of life that actually it's taught me so much and my life is so fulfilled in so many ways. And I decided to start concentrating on the love that I did have rather than the love that I didn't or that I thought I wanted and yearned for.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Right.

[Elizabeth Day]

So I've got married again, like you, and he has three children. I have lots of godchildren. I have nieces and a nephew. So there are so many children in my life. And in this lifetime, I believe that part of my purpose is not to have children in the biological sense, but to mother in other ways.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Right? Yes, yes, I believe that. I think you open your hearts in another way. I think when you are just a mother to your own child, it becomes a very sort of overprotective, empowering, almost selfish kind of love that you share with only one. Maybe it was a good lesson in the sense that now I shared that one love with so many others and we now have a grandson.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah, what's that like being a sort of step grandmother?

[Michelle Yeoh]

I don't see. Because I get on Very well with my stepson. I actually call him my boyfriend. He goes around introducing, oh, that's my dad's wife and my girlfriend, everybody.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's amazing.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Did you just say girlfriend?

[Elizabeth Day]

This is a whole other podcast, so.

[Michelle Yeoh]

We get on very, very well together and, you know, and I'm very blessed to have that kind of relationship. I think the most important thing is what I feel is like he sees that I love his dad and you know, for what, who he is and what he is and it's vice versa. We're both very independently independent. We're both successful in our own ways. And so, you know, and there's no, I think sometimes in a relationship there shouldn't be any rivalry, you know, who's better than who or, you know, why are you more successful or, you know, better known, blah, blah, blah. So in that way, we're all very comfortable in who we are because we all have had failures, you know, and learn to live with it. I truly believe ups and downs is like a heartbeat. You can't just have one way. Right. That would be a flat line.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes. You wouldn't be alive. Exactly. That's such a great metaphor.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Yeah. So, you know, it's important to, you know, when you, when you're down, you learn, you become resilient, you become stronger and you, you learn from mistakes, don't wallow in them, you know, move forward. I, I believe in always moving forward because if you stay still, you're, you're just stagnant and you're just waiting for the inevitable.

[Elizabeth Day]

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[Elizabeth Day]

Well, talking of moving forwards, let us move forwards to your failures. Your first failure. What I appreciate about them, they were just very straightforward, no context. And I can't wait to find out more. Because the first failure is stage fright. How did you discover that you had stage fright?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, very easily. Every time I have to go on stage to make. Okay, I loved dancing. So if I had to perform on stage, it's not a problem. It's speaking on stage. And it is something unfortunately I have not overcome. So that's why I still see it as a failure. It's like now it's a little bit of a stage fright for fear of not coming across as being a little bit intelligent or funny or something like that, you know, or not saying the right things. So rather than, okay, I'd rather than not say anything and be like a wallflower.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, let me reassure you that you're coming across exceptionally. But I'm aware that you're speaking in a second language. So do you still have stage fry in your native language?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Hell yes. Right. It's just about being on the stage. And suddenly I remembered. I think it came out very clearly when I received my Golden Globes. Are you allowed to swear?

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes. I welcome swearing. I love swearing.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Golden Globes was the first big nomination for me personally. As an actress by your own, by your peers. Right. Just to get the nomination was. You were so blown away and you think, I mean, at that point we all just went just to be nominated. I'm already over the moon. Right. And you don't have expectations, even though you pray quietly. Right. And then you think, oh, shoot, if they really actually call my name, what the hell, man? I'll be so scared to go up on stage. So when they did call my name, I walked up on stage, and suddenly you. Everything goes. I forget my name. I don't know what I'm there for. And the first word that came out of my mouth was shit. And then I realized everybody went, oh. Like that. And then I turned around and go, oh, my God, you're not supposed to say that. And I turned back around and said, fuck. So that was my big intro. And how I realized you still have stage fright. And then it's constant, because even when I go on press tours and things like that, when you have to go on stage and when they say. Say a few things, say something like that. I would agonize. Like the night before, I won't be able to sleep just because I know I have to go on stage. So you prep yourself. You prep. You keep prepping yourself. Prepping yourself to make sure just to say that one or two sentences without my heart goes. And one time, it was hysterical. I held my arms out like that. Luckily, I had a big gown on, and I went, oh, my God. I was sweating right here. It was just dripping because I was so scared.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes. Well, how did you cope with the Oscars then?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Not well. You saw.

[Elizabeth Day]

You were so beautiful, though. I love that speech. It was amazing. I would never have known.

[Michelle Yeoh]

I think it's because it came from here. It really did. Because first of all, of course, Asians that would come up and say, you got to win this for us. You got to win. And then you stand in there going like, I will try my very best. I don't know how I got it, but, you know, I hope. And it really resonated to me how much it meant not just to in America, but globally to Asians.

[Elizabeth Day]

Oh, I know. It's so beautiful, Michelle. Cause it's also the role you played was so special in that respect as well, for so many reasons.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's so rare that a woman of a certain age, Evelyn, who owns a laundromat, who is a Chinese American immigrant, gets to be a lead.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Exactly right. I mean, when we. That's true. I mean, if you go into Chinatown, in any of the major cities, they're there everywhere. They're not seen, they're not heard. They're not actually given any attention. You know, they're almost, like, voiceless. And at that time, when they had the China hate thing, it was like, this is wrong. How do you just do that to Another fellow human being. So it was very interesting and I think what it was very important at that time was like, these immigrants have been in America forever. Right? That's what America is made of, immigrants. Yes, that's how it is. And to be able to tell a story that is about not just a period piece, not like Crouching Tiger, where it, you know, not like Shogun, not like something like that, where is about the periods past, gone long past. But today they're so relevant to all of us. To be included, to be seen, to be embraced for our differences. And that was indeed very, very special. And I remember when the Daniels, when they wrote the script, she was called Michelle Wang. And the first thing I said to them, no, you do not call her Michelle. Because Evelyn, she is her own person and she deserves to be seen and heard as who she is. Because every time you say Michelle, you would think of, oh, is Michelle Yeoh trying to do this as another person? And I always believe that that is how we should take that approach, is that we have to be honest. We have to be brave enough to say, well, you know, some people might not like it or appreciate it, but. But guess what? It's a reality, it's a fact and we should see it. If you don't see it, you will never understand it.

[Elizabeth Day]

So, so powerful.

[Michelle Yeoh]

And so I'm very, very aware.

[Elizabeth Day]

No, I felt it too. And it's so moving hearing you speak about it. I wonder if I could take you back to growing up in Malaysia surrounded by this beautiful nature. Did you always feel, did you have an instinct that your life was going to be meaningful in some way?

[Michelle Yeoh]

I always felt loved. I always felt happy. Malaysia is a very beautiful country in the sense that it is very multiracial. So to be honest, when I was growing up, we grew up with Chinese, with the Malays, with the Indians, with the expats. So we embraced our different cultures. We celebrated all our different cultures. So when I was growing up, I'd never thought that one day I would be on the silver screen. My mother is my mother again. She was a big factor in why I love movies so much. Because as a child we would go to all kinds of movies, like Indian movies, Malay movies, Chinese movies in all the different languages. Horror stories like I grew up with Dracula. Okay, I think she traumatized me, but. And as I was watching the screen, I never thought, one day that's what I want to do. I want to be able to do that. It never crossed my mind. I was very single minded in the fact that I wanted to do ballet. I wanted to be in the world of dance. I wanted to have my own school. I would go back to Malaysia. I come from Ipoh, this very small mining city, and start my own. Have my own school. So that was my dream at that point. You know, I'm a small town girl, but my dad, he made us think wider. He made us think beyond the borders. He made us believe that, you know, the most important thing is education in his mind. But he never limited us to, say, he's a lawyer by profession, that you have to be a. I think a lot of. Especially for Chinese, Asian families, you have to be a lawyer, a doctor, an engineer, you know, an academic, something that is stable. Then you don't have to worry about making money and, you know, you'll be able to pay the rent or, you know, have a stable life. And he. Whatever you want to study, it's your choice, because at the end of the day, it's your life. And at that point, even during my divorce, he was the one who stood up for me, and he turned around and said, no, if he's not the right man for you, and he doesn't appreciate you the way he should. And it wasn't Dixon's fault or my fault, but it was just a reality of the situation as such. And my dad was like, this is your home. Whatever you decide to do is your choice. And so he always instilled that in us, even as a child. So I went, oh, then I want to go to England. Because ballet was from the Royal Academy of Dance, right? It's from England. And so my dream was like, I want to go to England to see it for real, to the Royal National Theater to do all that. And he goes like, okay. And in fact, when I was offered a contract in Hong Kong, after all the injury, going back to Malaysia, winning the title, and then I still wanted to go back to England. And then I was offered to do a commercial with Jackie Chan in Hong Kong. And while I was there, the film company offered me a contract. And I was 22. I thought, no, my parents will definitely not. I think they would not agree because I would be by myself there. I held a contract in my hand for, like, two days and was like, how do I go to my dad and say, I would like to try this? Because it's not a subject that I studied. I've never been in a movie before. I didn't study it. In the end, you know, you gather up all the courage, and it's like, what's the worst thing that can happen. No, right? No. Okay. So I went to him and he looked at the contract. The first thing he said, oh, this is like a slave contract. Then I said, that's why I need you, Dan. But he didn't say no. He turned around and said, when do you want to go? So that's how I started my career in Hong Kong.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's how it all started. Yeah, well, you started this career. You were cast in this commercial, Jackie Chan. Then that led onto your movie career.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Correct.

[Elizabeth Day]

And that brings us onto your second failure, which actually is a sort of failure of a system, which is that you kept being offered various stereotypical roles.

[Michelle Yeoh]

In Hollywood, in Hong Kong, at the beginning.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, tell me about this.

[Michelle Yeoh]

It's similar, I think, everywhere. You know, how they. They put all of us women in a certain box especially. And in Hong Kong at that time, action movies were predominantly all about the guys and saving the damsel who are in distress. And then you sit there and you go, like. Like, why do I need saving? What is it about that? So it's okay. It's heroic for the guys, but for us, it's kind of boring, right? So. And I was very fortunate. There was some smart, successful woman in Hong Kong and the business. And they all turn around and say, it's true. You know, we bring a girl who is not from Hong Kong, and yet you want to put her in the box exactly like how we put all the other of our girls. And I said, I would love to try action, because the first movie I played the damsel in distress. I watched the guys do their stunts and action sequences. The incredible Sammo Hong and George Lam. And then I realized this is very much like dance. It's choreography, it's movement, it's speed, it's the dynamics of the body and all those kind of things. So then when I said that, I think the company was also. It was a budding. It was new, fairly new company. And so they were also trying out things. And in Hong Kong, in that golden era of filmmaking, it was action movies. Comedies were the biggest hits. So my Chinese, my Cantonese, and I don't read Chinese at all. So I didn't. How could I do comedy without being able to say the language? So I felt that my physicality would be something I could. Could tap on to give me a leg up, you know, find a way, rather than be the damsel in distress. That was my key point. And so they said, okay, we'll let her try. If it doesn't work, we'll put her back in the box.

[Elizabeth Day]

You're so cool. So then what was it like working with Jackie Chan? What's the best piece of advice Jackie Chan gave you?

[Michelle Yeoh]

No, Jackie is. He's a little macho. You know, he really believes that women needs to be protected. So when we did our movie together, he was always like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't let her jump on the motorcycle. Because partly. Which, to be fair to him, when I took that motorcycle and jumped on the train.

[Elizabeth Day]

One of the most legendary stunts of all time that you did yourself.

[Michelle Yeoh]

No, I would never do it again. I mean, at that time, we did stunts that I. When we were dubbing the movie in English, I go like, ow. What was I thinking? And you're hanging the side of the van. It was. And the number of times the near misses, the cars come at you at that point. Because Jackie was thinking, if you do this, I have to do that just to be on the same. And it's true, right? After all, he is poor Jackie. So I always tease him. It was like, well, I'm doing it.

[Elizabeth Day]

You made it difficult for him.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Why should I make it easy for him?

[Elizabeth Day]

Exactly. So that was the early days of your career. Then you were known as Michelle Kahn. Is that right?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

And then you got cast in Tomorrow Never Dies. And I hear that Barbara Broccoli gave you advice.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Yes, yes. It was really funny. I was on holiday in Italy, and so Barbara said, she will come and meet me. Have a first meet. And I love this woman to death. She really is such a champion for women. I was traveling with a group of friends, and my surname is Yo. So she went to the desk and said, okay, Michelle Khan. And they go like, khan what? So for the longest of time, she went through all the. So she checked. She Googled it was King Khan. Because my Chinese name is you Chu King. And we always put our surnames first, which is Yo. In England, they would put Chu King. Yo, right? So when I was studying here, I didn't have Masha. My friends called me Chu, which is short for Chu King, Right? Chu was easier. They'd be, like, teasing me, going, so everybody knew my name and remembered it. So finally we found each other. And when I eventually got cast to play Wei Lin in Tomorrow Never Dies, and Barbara and I have become fast and firm friends from then. And she said, what's all this nonsense about Khan? And na, na, Na, he's not even your name. Why would you have that name? And I go, well, because I was Advised when I was in Hong Kong, because in Hong Kong, they called me by my Chinese name. But once the name had to go on the posters for Europe and for elsewhere for distribution outside of Hong Kong. When they put Yo, Chu King, everybody goes like, what is this? Actually, okay, sidebar. I am so proud of my Korean friends who have stuck to their Korean names. You know, kudos to you because that's your identity, that's who you are. But you know, when I was first in Hong Kong, I had to listen to advice from people who have been in the business who are in the marketing field. And so then we said, how about King? But King. No, that doesn't sound like your name. Yo. I said, yo is a one syllable. How difficult it is, is it? It's just that when you look at it, a lot of people go like, yeah. And I go, oh my God, they really dest my name. So that's why they said, okay, let's have a Chinese sounding Khan, right? So I was like, okay, if they. Because you never get to go to Europe to promote your films. At that time, it was all focused really, mainly in Asia. And it was for the first time I saw my name. And it was next to this voluptuous woman with long wavy hair, looking very Caucasian. Actually didn't look like me at all. And there was my name, Michelle Khan. And I went like, oh. Because they had to market it in such a way that it was attractive.

[Elizabeth Day]

What a strange experience for you.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, yes. But, you know, I think at that point, the people who were marketing the film, they wanted to be included. They wanted. That was the best way to sell the movie.

[Elizabeth Day]

Different times.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, thank God.

[Elizabeth Day]

The whole time.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Thank goodness.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Over.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Thank goodness.

[Elizabeth Day]

Tomorrow Never Dies, one of my favorite Bond movies. And you reclaim your name on the advice of Barbara Broccoli. But then what happened after that? Because the roles you were then being offered after Tomorrow Never Dies pigeonholed you, didn't they? And for two years you didn't accept any of them.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Yes, you're right. Cause, you know, after a Bond movie, you would imagine. And yes, a lot of things, Things come your way. But at that point in Hollywood, it was still. How many faces do you remember of that era that was maybe the Last Emperor that was like. And then the Joy Luck Club, which was more than 30 years ago, that had, you know, I mean, the people who really did very well was like Lucy Liu, because she's amazing. But it was so far and in between. So the roles that Asian actresses looking like me or actors even, were Offered work because that was the first time when it struck me suddenly I was a minority. I never, growing up in Malaysia, going to Hong Kong and all those kind of things. It's not a word that we even use. You know, when I first arrived there and go like, oh, you're a minority? I'm like, what does that even mean? You know how many billions of Asians there are around the world and how many there are in the itself. It's like at that time, if you think about it, there were no pairing of what they would say to minorities. And I had a good friend who was an incredible director and he said to me, honestly, I would love to cast you, but because once we cast a minority who's the lead, you have no chance.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Wow.

[Elizabeth Day]

So this is the 1990s we're talking about. So what were the kind of roles you were being offered?

[Michelle Yeoh]

The very stereotypical. They had to find a reason why an Asian person would be in that role. So easy. Chinatown, right? Or a waiter in a Chinese restaurant. So it always has to be explained. The most important thing is to be seen doing ordinary things, normal things, and even positions of power. In the past, we had to fight for women to be in positions of power. For the longest of time, we didn't even get a chance to have a seat at the table. And we had to fight to change the whole dynamics, the whole way of thinking. And it's an ongoing battle. It's not a done deal. I mean, when we made Crazy Rich Asians, the last all Asian cast was Joy Luck club, which was 26 years ago. And the crazy rich Asians came out in 2018. So can you imagine that BC Rom com? All Asian cast? No chance. But we did it because I think our audience is much more embracing and willing and wanting to see all, to see their friends, their people up there. And that's the only way you can have a true, real exchange of culture and acceptance.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you know Oscar winning actress Michelle Yeoh, Superstar? Do you experience racism?

[Michelle Yeoh]

I would be lying if I say no. I'll put it delicately. Because they don't want. They dare not show us very direct racism because of the position I'm in right now. Maybe five years ago, even then you would face it. You know, you see the people go like, what's this Asian person doing here? I think the distribution of wealth has helped as well. But unfortunately it's quite apparent still today when you have in America, when you hear of Asian, older women get punched in the face for just walking down the street and just because, you know, young girls or boys get harassed and bullied because versus they're Asians. I think I don't understand, you know, to date, why it's still happening. So that's why when a movie like what we've done with Wicked comes out, where we encourage people to see, it's beautiful to be different because that's how we are all made. All of us are different and we should not be. I think the worst one of our worst human traits is we're judgmental. We like to judge. We like to be like above. I don't know. I don't know why we always think that we have to be better and be able to tell the other person or put them down or whatever it is. I think that is something. I hope that we all learn that an act of kindness or compassion goes a long, long way in our world. And we are in so desperate need of.

[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Elizabeth Day]

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[Elizabeth Day]

Your final failure is a specific stunt accident.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, I don't see it as a failure. I think I see it. You see, don't mistake that for being reckless. You know, we. As. Cause I still love doing my own sons, and I still do today. Now, I am not afraid to turn around and say, let my son double do it. You know, that's why she's here for. And to be honest, because you're only physically capable of certain things, right? At the end of the day, you are an actor. And I remember even when we were doing Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and Angry was always. He would really get pissed off when people say, oh, she's a stunt act. You know, she's an action actor. And he would go like, no, she's an actress, okay? It's just because she knows how to do some action, it doesn't make her just a stunt actress. With time, I've learned that you have to protect yourself. And remember, this is for entertainment. None of us should ever get hurt. And unfortunately, one of our movies, and how ironic it was. My kudos, my homage to the stunned people, because I was playing a stunt woman and I wanted to go behind the scenes and show the audiences, you know, those people that make us look so good. It's a tough life. And especially in Hong Kong at that time, because the stunts were real. I mean, I used to hate the horror stories where they said, we know that someone's going to get hurt. The van is ready to take him or her to the hospital, and you go, but why? The safety measures were just not up to par, unlike what it is today. Thank God. It was so bad. I thought everybody thought I broke my back.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you mind saying what happened? Is it a traumatizing?

[Michelle Yeoh]

So this scene, the Sun Woman had left that kind of career because she felt it was going nowhere. She was getting hurt and all these kind of things. But then she failed in her business and she had to come back to do stunt work again. And Sam o', Ho, bless him, he's the actor but also the mentor of this stunt woman. So he knew that she had to get back on the horse and do the stunt. And don't hesitate. One thing you should never do is hesitate. When you agree to do it, you have to be committed and see it all the way through. Even if you're hurt, you have to see it all the way through. And I think one of the best stories is Tom Cruise. You remember when he did that jump? He broke his ankle, but when he got up, he limped out of it. Can you imagine if he broke it and he went, ow, ow, ow, ow. That couldn't have been used. So in that way, if you punch someone accidentally, which you shouldn't, you should see it through because unfortunately, it's done. I love you. Okay.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay.

[Michelle Yeoh]

In this scene, I was. The big stunt was her jumping off and Sammo pushes her off this and it's in a flyover and she lands on a big truck that's moving by. It's like a 30 foot fall. And you know, we do it with wire land. Everything is good. So now we do have to do a cloak. So it's off maybe a little higher than here, about 15ft. And all I do is that was the mistake because the camera was close up. So it wasn't about the stunt. All it was was like he pushes me and I fall off frame like this. But because they were filming from down here, I had a longer way to go. And my bad was like, when he pushed, I tumbled. But I was still trying to. To give. To act right. Instead of going, know what? You have to flip. And so I landed head into. And we don't have like the. The airbags. We have cardboard boxes and like a couple of mattresses on top. And in fact, if you land like this on the mattress, it's like this. It's solid, right? So all I felt was my head going into here. My legs came from behind me and went. Exactly.

[Elizabeth Day]

They hit your back?

[Michelle Yeoh]

They hit the top of my head.

[Elizabeth Day]

Oh, my gosh.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Yes. And so when I. And everybody. My poor director, Ann Hoy. The incredible Ann Hoy. This was so poor Ann. I convinced her to do an action film, but she's a dramatic, amazing drama, a director. So this was her first thing into the action with some kind of action. She was literally standing. I landed here and she was standing where you are. And I turned around and your whole body is on fire. And I saw her and she was there, just in shock with tears streaming down her face. And poor Samuel, he was up in the flyover about 15ft away. And I heard him call me by my. My own name. Not Michelle, but Chu King. And I thought, oh, shoot. Something is really.

[Elizabeth Day]

So your body is on fire.

[Michelle Yeoh]

That's it. On fire. Everybody thought, this is it.

[Elizabeth Day]

You made it through and then you were in a full body cast?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

For how, for how long?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, My God, it was. It was quite a few months because, you know, the cracked ribs and all that is nothing but all the. That. Fortunately, I was so flexible. I think if I wasn't so flexible, I would have. At the back. Would have just. So it was. And at that point, you review. And my best girlfriends, because I was in Hong Kong, oh, my God, they would march into the hospital room and just gave me a earful. It was like, why are you doing this? Why do you need to do this? Look at you now. We can't help you. You can't help your. You know, there could be a lot worse. And I'm like, how about some sympathy girl? But they were right. And then you think, like, you're right. You're absolutely right. I should not go and do these kind of risky things. It was a little bit of a turning point. It's like, maybe I should skew away from doing movies or, you know, find some other things that. And, you know, when you're in the hospital and when you've got all those drugs in you, it's depressing, you know, and your body is just going like, I can't do anything. I can't even lift my arm or my leg or anything like that. It was not a happy time.

[Elizabeth Day]

But then someone visited you, didn't you? Yes. Who visited you?

[Michelle Yeoh]

Quentin Tarant. Do you know, I. Today I have to thank him. I have to thank him for being so relentless. Because, you know, he came to Hong Kong and he said, I want to meet da da da, da da. And one of them was me. And I am a huge fan of his. Any time I would have, you know, wherever he was, I would have gone to see him. But, you know, you're in a cast, you're thinking, and your mindset is also. No, but he was like, just give me five minutes. I just want to say hello. So finally he came to the house. And I remember I was sitting downstairs in our living room, and he came bounding, literally. You know, he's tall and. And striding down the staircase. He's like my child. He picks up a pillow, drops him at my. I'm sitting there and he plops himself down. And he starts talking about, you know, how much he loved my work and what, you know, how it was. And he literally, frame for frame, he reminded me of some of the stunts that I did and all that. So the next thing I knew was he made me realize why I loved filmmaking so much. It's a passion and is not just a job. Okay, just tailor your Passion.

[Elizabeth Day]

Gosh, I could listen to you for days. You've had such an incredible life and it feels like you're only just getting started still.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Yes. Oh, yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

I mean, if I could ask you to look back at these three specific failures from your vantage point now, what do you think they taught you?

[Michelle Yeoh]

When I was coming onto your program, that was the one thing. When I look at these three things, I go like, they're not failures, you know? Yes. It's something that happened in your journey, in your life. Like we say there are ups and there are downs, but each of this segment taught me to be more resilient, taught me to be smarter, taught me how. Yes, there are certain things that I will have to continue to deal with to overcome it, you know, and there are certain things that you go like, it's okay.

[Elizabeth Day]

Moving on, always in motion.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Always. Yes, I think when. I don't think the time for me yet is to come to a standstill. I still think there are so many different things that I'm still learning and hoping to do.

[Elizabeth Day]

Do you think that's what keeps you so young at heart whilst also being a wise soul? Do you think that's partly why this sort of zest that you have for discovery, for learning, for forward motion, that's important?

[Michelle Yeoh]

I think, yes, that has a great deal to do with it. I think having the right people around you has a lot to do with it because they inspire me, they help me to see things in different way. Having people who love you for who you are, I mean, that is like my husband. He doesn't try to change me. So I have people around me who have great, we have great respect for each other. We cajole each other, we bully each other to have the best, best outcome. And I think that is very important that you find your people because, you know, you don't walk alone. Please don't walk alone. You don't walk with people who respect you, love you, and you have a much better time.

[Elizabeth Day]

Michelle Yeoh, I am so thrilled to have met you. Thank you for coming on how to Fade.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was fun.

[Elizabeth Day]

Please do follow how to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends this is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Hello, it's Elizabeth Day from How to Fail here. My next guest is Oscar winning actress Michelle Yeoh. We talk about stunts, stage fright and how being the first Asian woman to win the Best Actress Academy Award meant so much to so many. Plus, there's this.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Oh, my God, I was sweating. It was just dripping because I was so scared.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes. Listen to how to Fail wherever you get your podcasts.