Podcast Summary

Podcast: How To Fail With Elizabeth Day
Episode: Mo Gawdat - The 3 BIGGEST Mistakes We Make In Finding Love
Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Elizabeth Day
Guest: Mo Gawdat

Episode Overview

In this insightful and deeply personal conversation, Elizabeth Day welcomes back best-selling author and former Google X executive Mo Gawdat to explore the role of failure and self-discovery in love and relationships. Using Mo’s recent personal experiences and the launch of his new AI-powered app, Emma, the episode delves into the “three biggest mistakes” people make when searching for love, weaving in lessons on vulnerability, grief, the distortion of modern dating, and the hope artificial intelligence may bring to genuine human connection.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Transformations and the Cost of Love

• Regeneration & Change

  • Mo reflects on how the past seven years since his first appearance on the podcast have completely changed him, moving from his corporate-driven self towards greater vulnerability and connection (05:42).
  • He shares how his relationships, particularly with his daughter and ex-wife, have deepened, and how he experienced falling “head over heels in love”—a relationship which, despite its end, marked profound personal growth (07:47).

• Learning Through Heartbreak

  • Mo candidly discusses his recent breakup with Hannah, the lessons it brought, and the pain of feeling that something could have worked under different circumstances (08:21).
  • He highlights the importance of vulnerability, admitting he was “very calculating in every word,” and not open enough for fear of upsetting his partner—a mistake that contributed to the relationship’s end (08:21–11:23).

Notable Quote

“Even if I want to keep up with you...it’s almost impossible. But for the first time ever, I wanted her so much…that I wasn’t the man I was supposed to be in that. I wasn’t vulnerable enough.”
— Mo Gawdat (08:21)

2. Heartbreak vs. Grief: Processing Emotional Loss

• Parallels of Heartbreak and Grief

  • Mo explains that heartbreak is “identical” to grief, but often takes longer due to the hope and effort one invests in salvaging a relationship (16:48).
  • He emphasizes that we experience grief twice: once through fearing a loss, and again in accepting it (16:48).

• Learning from Breakups

  • The problem, Mo notes, is our tendency not to reflect constructively on heartbreak. Instead, we allow pain to dominate the experience rather than extracting personal growth from it (16:48–18:28).

Notable Quote

“Heartbreak…is very similar to a terminal diagnosis followed by grief…We grieve through the process of getting to heartbreak, then we grieve through overcoming heartbreak. One of the top reasons why dating nowadays is failing is because we fail to reflect on a heartbreak to turn it into a learning.”
— Mo Gawdat (16:48)

3. The Three Major Mistakes in Finding Love

First Mistake: Using Capitalist Tools That Work Against Us

Segment Starts: 30:44

• Modern dating apps are built for profit, not genuine connection. The industry measures success by user engagement, not by actual relationship outcomes or satisfaction.
• Dating platforms encourage endless swiping and ego gratification, keeping users hooked and feeling replaceable.

Notable Moments:

“At the end of the day, believe it or not, you’re not the customer, you’re the product.”
— Mo Gawdat (31:25)

• The ease and abundance of choice make finding true connection harder, not easier—leading to “dating fatigue” and shallow interactions.

Second Mistake: Misunderstanding the Economics of Relationships

Segment Starts: 47:24

• Mo makes a nuanced distinction: love itself is not an economic transaction, but relationships operate on the principles of supply and demand.
• The low “cost” of dating today (swiping rather than genuine investment) has devalued true connection, reducing incentives for commitment or effort (48:04).
• Suboptimal matches result from burnout and convenience; settling for “good enough” often costs years of life due to the cycle of dating, breaking up, and recovering (50:03).

Notable Quote:

“In my lifetime, Nibel was worth the whole world, okay? Today, a partner…is worth a swipe. The cost is so low that the behavior has completely broken down.”
— Mo Gawdat (48:04)

• Added complexities include those for women who want children and thus feel pressured by biological timelines.

Third Mistake: Failing to See Our Genuine Truth Before Searching for a Match

Segment Starts: 55:06

• Many enter relationships carrying unresolved trauma or projecting past experiences, often unconsciously.
• Friends (and even AI like ChatGPT) can reinforce biases rather than promote self-reflection.
• True connection requires self-honesty, understanding of personal triggers, and recognition of individual love languages.

Notable Quote:

“There are so many things that we are not aware that are triggering our behavior, and that are really shaping us in ways that spell doom to the relationship, honestly.”
— Mo Gawdat (56:22)

4. Introducing Emma: An AI for Love

Segment Starts: 27:32

• Mo details the vision behind Emma, his AI-powered app designed to help people find and nurture love—not by increasing dates but by better matchmaking and real introspection.
• Emma interacts with users to uncover their authentic selves, recognize patterns, address past traumas, and encourage healthy relationship dynamics.
• Emma refuses to facilitate casual flings, instead focusing on those seeking true love.

Notable Quote:

“Emma wants to help you understand yourself enough…all of the traumas that you may not be aware of, all of the things that normally manifest when we fall in love and remove our veil, and lead to breakups eventually.”
— Mo Gawdat (28:21)

• Emma can also help couples communicate and understand each other’s needs and cycles, helping prevent misunderstandings and encourage consistent connection.

5. The Hope and Responsibility of AI

Segment Starts: 45:00

• Mo remains a champion for the hopeful potential of AI, countering scare stories by insisting that AI’s impact will always reflect human intention.
• He stresses that, ultimately, “we're not building multiple brains, we're building one brain” (45:35), and encourages the benevolent use of this technology.

Notable Quote:

“The dystopia that might come along…is not because of AI. It’s because of humans, the evil that men can do using AI.”
— Mo Gawdat (45:35)

6. Navigating Pain, Empathy, and Hope in Challenging Times

Segment Starts: 57:39–65:03

• Elizabeth closes by asking Mo how he maintains empathy and hope in a turbulent world. Mo acknowledges deep sorrow for global suffering but has learned the value in “allowing the pain”—to stay human without hardening one’s heart.
• He reflects on the paradox of pain and awakening, suggesting suffering often precedes collective growth.

Notable Quote:

“If there is suffering in the world, a bit of it has to be in your heart, because otherwise you are not human anymore.”
— Mo Gawdat (58:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 08:21 | Mo | “I wanted it to succeed so much that I wasn’t the man I was supposed to be…” | | 16:48 | Mo | “Heartbreak is very similar to a terminal diagnosis followed by grief…” | | 19:39 | Elizabeth | “He died, but he also lived.” | | 31:25 | Mo | “At the end of the day…you’re not the customer, you’re the product.” | | 48:04 | Mo | “Today, a partner…is worth a swipe. The cost is so low…” | | 55:20 | Elizabeth | “Your final failure…is we fail to see our genuine truth…” | | 58:26 | Mo | “If there is suffering in the world, a bit of it has to be in your heart…” |

Key Timestamps for Segments

• Introduction & Catching Up: 04:53–11:23
• On Heartbreak and Grief: 16:36–19:53
• The Definition of Love & Modern Dating: 20:11–23:25
• The Problems with Dating Apps: 30:44–35:10
• The Economics of Relationships: 47:24–50:03
• The Role of AI (Emma): 27:32; 43:23–45:35
• The Importance of Self-Awareness: 55:20–57:30
• Maintaining Empathy and Hope: 57:39–65:03

Tone & Takeaways

Throughout the episode, the conversation is warm, vulnerable, witty, and often deeply philosophical. Both Elizabeth and Mo share personal stories and hard-earned wisdom, maintaining a tone that is compassionate and gently challenging.

Listeners are left with:

• A reframed view of failure in love as a necessary and valuable teacher,
• Insight into the underlying economic drivers making modern dating so fraught,
• The hopeful promise that AI, if wielded wisely, could nudge us towards greater authenticity and connection,
• A call to maintain empathy and openness, even through heartbreak and global pain.

For more from How To Fail With Elizabeth Day, follow the show and check out the Emma app for a new approach to love and relationships.