How to Fail with Elizabeth Day

Episode: ON ADDICTION... With Mae Martin and Marian Keyes
Date: September 28, 2025
Host: Elizabeth Day
Guests: Mae Martin (Comedian, Writer, Actor) & Marian Keyes (Author)

Overview

In honor of National Recovery Month, Elizabeth Day curates powerful excerpts from previous interviews with Mae Martin and Marian Keyes—two guests who have navigated addiction and emerged with resilience and insight. This episode delves into their respective journeys with addiction, their evolving understandings of substance use, self-acceptance, and recovery, and the hope that can be found even in the aftermath of profound struggle.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Addiction and Medication (Mae Martin, 02:30 – 04:41)

• Mae Martin’s History with Addiction

  • Mae discusses their experience with substance abuse and ADHD.
  • On being medicated for ADHD: “It's been pretty life changing... it’s kind of eradicated any lingering urge to seek out a stimulant because it’s really measured and that part of my brain is satisfied, I guess.” (02:36, Mae Martin)
  • Mae expresses caution about dependency, aware of overmedication risks: “I'm wary of it. I know it’s easy to become dependent on it...so I'm careful with it.” (02:57, Mae Martin)

• Adopting Dr. Gabor Maté’s Definition of Addiction

  • Mae emphasizes Gabor Maté’s holistic definition of addiction:

    “He says an addiction is anything that you crave and you do compulsively despite it having negative consequences. So it's about those negative consequences in your life.” (03:22, Mae Martin)

  • Elizabeth adds: “He also says it can be a trauma response.” (03:43, Elizabeth Day)
  • Mae explains how embracing this broader definition helped them recognize addictive patterns beyond substances, such as relationships and technology.

2. Art, Therapy, and Real-Time Self-Discovery (Mae Martin, 04:41 – 07:25)

• Autobiographical Creativity in ‘Feel Good’

  • Mae shares how creating and acting in ‘Feel Good’ intertwined with their own journey of self-understanding, especially regarding gender identity and addiction:

    “It was so personal...I was really figuring it out in real time.” (05:33–06:33, Mae Martin)

  • The process was both harrowing and therapeutic, forcing real introspection.

• Navigating Narrative Closure and Pronoun Changes

  • Contrasting real recovery with TV expectations:

    “In TV you are constantly encouraged to have a satisfying narrative arc with a definite ending. But of course, that is not your life.” (06:33–06:46, Elizabeth Day)

  • The evolving pronouns of Mae’s character mirrored their off-screen experience:

    “Literally in real time, telling the crew on set. Actually, that would be nice if you guys would like. It was really happening...” (06:55, Mae Martin)

  • Mae credits co-star Charlotte Richie for meaningful off-screen support.

3. Alcoholism, Depression, and Rock Bottom (Marian Keyes, 07:25 – 14:13)

• The Interplay of Failure, Alcoholism, and Self-Worth

  • Marian recounts downward spirals after her "failure" to get into journalism college:

    “I felt that I had been hubristic in thinking that I would be good enough...I shut down all ambition...Alcohol had been a great friend to me from early teens, and it just became...a better and better friend...I just drank, and I drove down cul de sacs and I had relationships with men who endorsed my own sense of self-loathing.” (07:36–08:57, Marian Keyes)

  • A period of treading water, hoping for magical rescue.

• The Turning Point and Seeking Help

  • Description of “running out of road,” progressive worsening of addiction:

    “Any addiction is progressive. Like, it gets worse, and I continue to normalize the abnormal.” (09:39, Marian Keyes)

  • Recounts her suicide attempt as a desperate cry for help:

    “I didn't want to die. I wanted help. Like, I wanted somebody to come along and sort of helicopter me out of it.” (10:38, Marian Keyes)

  • Cooperative secrecy from friends and colleagues kept her illness hidden from family.

• Revelations in Rehab

  • Entered rehab thinking depression was the root issue, only to realize:

    “The only thing that's wrong with me is that I'm an alcoholic. And the only way I'll ever be okay is if I stop.” (11:54, Marian Keyes)

  • Grieving the loss of alcohol, which she describes as her “best friend,” yet ultimately finding hope and a new clarity.
  • Liberation from addiction: “My mood changed. And I felt, you know, I could see the wonder of the world, which had seemed like it was misty and ashy and shrouded in grey for so long.” (13:22, Marian Keyes)

4. Recovery, Hope, and Long-Term Freedom (Marian Keyes, 14:13 – 15:20)

• On Recovery as Possible
  • Marian emphasizes:

    “I hope because it's such a hopeless condition, addiction, you know, and that feeling that every door is locked, that you're trapped in this underground room, it is possible to recover like it is possible.” (14:25, Marian Keyes)

  • Describing freedom from obsession:

    “I am, like, almost literally blind to alcohol, which—the freedom I've been given...I was such a prisoner. And now I really can. I don't care if I accidentally smell somebody else's wine. I...feel, oh, my God, now get it away from me. It's like horrible stuff. Like, all it made me feel was miserable for years and years.” (15:04, Marian Keyes)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mae Martin reflecting on ADHD medication:
  “It's kind of eradicated any lingering urge to seek out a stimulant because it's really measured and that part of my brain is satisfied, I guess.” (02:40)

• Mae Martin on Gabor Maté’s wisdom:
  “An addiction is anything that you crave and you do compulsively despite it having negative consequences.” (03:22)

• Mae Martin acknowledging real-time growth through art:
  “I was really figuring it out in real time.” (06:33)

• Marian Keyes on the heartbreak of giving up alcohol:
  “It was my best friend...It took away my pain, it took away my fear, it took away my sorrow...The thought of being without it, like, I grieved it, like the way you would grieve a lover.” (12:19)

• Marian Keyes on recovery and freedom:
  “The freedom I've been given...When I was such a prisoner. And now I really can. I don't care if I accidentally smell somebody else's wine…all it made me feel was miserable for years and years.” (15:04)

Important Timestamps

• 02:30 – Mae discusses ADHD, medication, and addiction
• 03:22 – Gabor Maté’s definition of addiction, trauma response insight
• 04:41 – Autobiographical healing through TV and ‘Feel Good’
• 06:55 – Pronouns and real-life identity discovery reflected in art
• 07:36 – Marian begins recounting post-college failures and slide into alcoholism
• 09:39 – The normalization and escalation of addiction
• 10:38 – Marian’s suicide attempt as a call for help and pathway to rehab
• 11:54 – Realization in rehab: "I'm an alcoholic"
• 13:22 – The emergence of hope and wonder post-addiction
• 14:25 – Marian’s message of hope and recovery

Overall Tone

The conversations are honest, vulnerable, and deeply human—striking a balance between humor where possible and profound compassion for pain. Both guests illuminate how confronting and understanding failure—whether through personal struggle or creative pursuit—can ultimately foster self-knowledge and hope. The episode offers comfort and solidarity for anyone grappling with addiction or the shame of perceived failure.

For more conversations on resilience, recovery, and growth from failure, follow How To Fail with Elizabeth Day on your podcast platform of choice.