How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Episode: ON BABY LOSS… With Sara Pascoe and Trinny Woodall

Date: October 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode is a special compilation for Baby Loss Awareness Week, featuring deeply personal, insightful conversations with comedian and writer Sara Pascoe and broadcaster and entrepreneur Trinny Woodall. Both guests openly discuss their experiences with miscarriage, infertility, IVF, and pregnancy after loss. Host Elizabeth Day draws on her own journey as well, creating an empathetic and supportive space for listeners navigating similar struggles. The conversation is candid, at times raw, and ultimately hopeful, aiming to reduce stigma and share solidarity through stories of “failure” and resilience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sara Pascoe on Infertility and Miscarriage

[03:17–18:21]

• Infertility as a “Failure”:
  Sara describes how years of trying to conceive, without success, led to feelings of failure—compounded by the social narrative that pregnancy “should” just happen. She shares the toll this took on her relationships and self-worth.
  • "Every month, I always got my hopes up… And when I wasn't pregnant, I would look again at the same jobs like, well, at least I can do that now." (Sara Pascoe, 05:14)
• Magical Thinking & Guilt:
  She reflects on how, in the absence of answers, she resorted to magical thinking, blame, and the idea of ‘trade-offs’ between career success and motherhood.
  • "I really did think it was a trade off… The universe has given you all of this with your work. How dare you say I want something else as well?" (Sara Pascoe, 04:44)
• Coping with Unexplained Infertility:
  Both Sara and Elizabeth discuss the agony of “not knowing” and the ways in which unexplained infertility can lead to self-critique and endless anxious speculation.
  • "You can't unlearn those things. Other people's sadnesses, other people's traumas..." (Sara Pascoe, 08:00)
• Miscarriage While Waiting for IVF:
  Sara shares the unique pain of experiencing miscarriage after years of never being pregnant.
  • "My miscarriage, unfortunately, was while we were waiting to start IVF… After such a long time never getting pregnant." (Sara Pascoe, 09:06)
  • Navigating health service policies and COVID: Sara describes the "cruelty" of missing out on NHS-funded IVF due to COVID-related delays and geography.
• After Loss: Pregnancy & Anxiety:
  After finally conceiving, Sara discusses how joy is replaced with relentless anxiety, and how trauma colors every moment of pregnancy and parenting.
  • "After that, it's never ever a celebration ever again." (Sara Pascoe, 10:42)
  • "I did hundreds of pregnancy tests and I haven't been able to throw a single one away... It was the only way I could reassure myself I was pregnant." (Sara Pascoe, 11:18)
  • "I got obsessed with the ones which can tell you, plus three weeks, but then you sort of age out of that." (Sara Pascoe, 11:32)
• Cultural Pressures & Fertility:
  She discusses her husband’s cultural expectations, societal judgments on childless women, and how social media pregnancy announcements can be painful triggers.
• Parenting After Infertility:
  Sara speaks about her complex feelings as a mother after infertility, not identifying with “earth mummy” culture or the narrative that having children is purely joyful.
  • "There's something I wanted to say to you based on an article that you wrote... Because I've got a leg in both camps, right? I'm an infertile woman who then had a child. And I still don't identify as..." (Sara Pascoe, 14:47)
• On "You’ve Never Known Love Like This":
  Both Sara and Elizabeth reject the societal cliché that having children unlocks a new form of love.
  • "Love is not the word. Oh, I don't know. It's not all of it. So I thought, why would you sit there? I've never known love like it. You're telling yourself that." (Sara Pascoe, 16:29)
• The Lingering Impact:
  Sara highlights how even after successful pregnancies, past struggles persist.
  • "There's a whole other side of infertility, which is it doesn't go away... What you've been through for all those years doesn't go away." (Sara Pascoe, 17:32)

2. Trinny Woodall on Nine Rounds of IVF and Motherhood

[18:28–27:45]

• When the Desire for Motherhood Arrives:
  Trinny shares that she felt no strong desire to be a mother until her mid-30s, then experienced a sudden, intense want.
  • "I found it irritating… And then I sort of woke up one day, whether we call it biological clock or whatever, age, sort of 35, and I thought, I really want to be a mother." (Trinny Woodall, 19:39)
• The Persistence and Pain of Repeated IVF:
  Trinny describes a relentless, mechanical approach—five rounds in a year—which took a toll emotionally, physically, and on her partnership.
  • "Gonal F was like in my thigh and I was like the professional... Johnny was like, so fucking much, probably I turned into a really hormonal cow and I think I was very, very difficult to be around." (Trinny Woodall, 20:58)
• Pregnancy Losses:
  She bravely recounts pregnancies that ended in loss, the emotional exhaustion, and at one point, needing to deliver after a loss due to medical reasons.
• IVF Logistics & Emotional Nuances:
  The details of IVF, partner support, medical quirks, grief, and the surreal logistics (such as using frozen sperm while her marriage was in crisis) are discussed candidly.
• The Miracle Pregnancy:
  Trinny shares the unexpected moment she finally conceived her daughter Lila, almost by chance, after emotionally “disengaging.”
  • "I left and stopped thinking about it… A month later, I bled, I thought, there we go again… Then, I didn’t get my period… and I was pregnant." (Trinny Woodall, 22:16)
• Extreme Anxiety During Pregnancy:
  The fear never lifted. Trinny describes constant bleeding, multiple scans, and the emotional armor of assuming loss.
  • "I think I had that inevitable feeling, I’ve lost the baby… I so didn’t expect to hear her heartbeat." (Trinny Woodall, 23:56)
• Motherhood After Trauma:
  She learned maternal instincts through experience, citing breastfeeding as critical for intimacy and bonding after such a fraught journey.
  • "That breastfeeding of Lila, that moment of intimacy… made me so close to her in that very, very raw level." (Trinny Woodall, 25:48)
• Wider Questions around Motherhood:
  Trinny and Elizabeth discuss the complexity of motherhood—what it means to want to be a “blood mother,” the legitimacy of surrogacy, adoption, or choosing not to parent, and giving oneself permission to not fight endlessly or to change paths.
  • "The hardest decision is for those people who decide IVF is not the right route… do I want to be a mother or do I want to be a blood mother?" (Trinny Woodall, 26:44)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sara Pascoe on ambiguous loss:
  "The thing that I did… I didn't go for investigations. I didn't try and find out why I wasn't getting pregnant. I thought if it was meant to happen, it would happen. Which actually means I gave all of the power to something else... It then became very intertwined with worth." (Sara Pascoe, 04:13)

• Elizabeth Day on the unwanted persistence of memory:
  "And like you, I have a drawer full of pregnancy tests from those and they fade over time... which is actually a sadness because, like, oh, it's sort of the final fading of something that did exist, but to all intents and purposes, the world doesn't think it does." (Elizabeth Day, 12:33)

• Sara Pascoe on not relating to “pregnancy joy”:
  "People say things like, our body's doing these amazing things. And to me it just feels like terror. It feels like an accidental terror that I'm not in control of." (Sara Pascoe, 15:16)

• Trinny Woodall on IVF perseverance:
  "I did like five in a year... I was like the professional." (Trinny Woodall, 20:56)

• Trinny Woodall on combating imposter syndrome in motherhood:
  "When you spend that long, Elizabeth, you don't quite know. Will you be that natural… I learned to be a mother in that first year... You let go of the fact, can you be a mother." (Trinny Woodall, 25:54)

• Elizabeth Day on choosing your own path:
  "There are many other ways of being a mother and what does that look like? And then you sometimes don't know, do I want to be a mother or do I want to be a blood mother? And how different are they to me as a concept?" (Elizabeth Day, 27:08)

Important Timestamps

• Sara Pascoe’s Reflection on Years of Trying: 03:17–07:44
• Miscarriage While Awaiting IVF: 09:06–10:37
• Pregnancy and Enduring Anxiety: 10:38–14:20
• Sara on Pregnancy Announcements, Motherhood Identity: 14:20–17:32
• Trinny’s IVF Journey: 19:11–23:56
• Pregnancy and Parenting After Loss: 23:56–27:45

Tone & Style

The episode is characterized by a mix of candor, humor (as a defensive and coping mechanism), warmth, and deep empathy. Both guests are open about their vulnerabilities, failures, and moments of messy humanity. Elizabeth’s gentle interviewing style helps create a space where honest, sometimes darkly funny, and always compassionate conversations can unfold.

Conclusion

This episode is a testament to the power of shared vulnerability. Both Sara Pascoe and Trinny Woodall honor the lived experiences of those grappling with fertility challenges and loss, demonstrating that there is no “right” way to process, to hope, or to move forward. Ultimately, their willingness to lay bare their failures (and what they learned from them) is a source of comfort and solidarity for listeners who may feel isolated in their own journeys.

For support, resources, or to share your own story, listeners are encouraged to reach out to the podcast via the provided links or connect with charities like The Miscarriage Association.