Podcast Summary: How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Episode: ON FRIENDSHIP… With Dawn French and Vogue Williams
Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Elizabeth Day
Guests: Vogue Williams and Dawn French

Episode Overview

This special throwback episode of How To Fail focuses on the theme of friendship—its joys, challenges, and the hard-learned lessons from moments when things don’t go right. Elizabeth Day revisits insightful conversations with two guests: broadcaster and model Vogue Williams and beloved comedian and writer Dawn French. Each shares personal stories of friendship failures, growth, and what it means to build deep, lasting connections.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Vogue Williams on Friendship “Failures”

• Feeling Lucky, Feeling Guilty

  • Vogue reflects on reading Elizabeth’s book Friendaholic and recognizing herself in its pages. She shares the tension between feeling blessed with lifelong friends, yet not always returning the effort:
    • “I’m so lucky to have so many great friends, but I really feel like I’m not being a good friend to them.” (03:17, Vogue)
    • This inspired Vogue to say “yes” more—attending events and nurturing friendships that had taken a back seat due to children and work.

• Balancing Family, Work, and Friends

  • Vogue openly discusses how motherhood and career shifted her focus away from friendships:
    • “Friendships do feel like a failure to me because I haven’t put them first, definitely in the last, like, six years since I’ve had kids.” (04:44, Vogue)
  • She’s now balancing these priorities, realizing the importance of sustaining friendships for personal happiness.

• Effort and Guilt in Catching Up

  • Vogue and Elizabeth touch on how time and distance dilute contact, but true friends reconnect effortlessly:
    • “When we do see each other, there’s no guilt.” (06:06, Elizabeth)
    • “It was just like, you just pick it up again … everyone’s really busy.” (06:11, Vogue)
  • Honest conversations about absence can actually strengthen bonds.

• Defining Friendship and Making Tough Choices

  • For Vogue, close friends feel “like family” and should bring joy and trust—she is careful with her time and has let go of relationships that were no longer positive:
    • “It has to be like a two way thing. You can’t just be expecting so much of a friend and not giving anything back.” (08:14, Vogue)
  • She’s made deliberate choices to distance herself from people with questionable intentions or toxic dynamics.

• Fame & Friendship Boundaries

  • Elizabeth asks how Vogue manages friendships amid fame. Vogue says she’s good at keeping certain people at “arm’s length” and maintaining boundaries:
    • “There are people … that you kind of keep a little bit at arm’s length. … I see them at events but probably not going to go have a coffee or dinner.” (09:40, Vogue)

• Family as Friends

  • Vogue’s sister Amber is her “best of best friends;” their sibling bond blurs into deep friendship.
  • She jokes about her husband Spencer’s differing approach to friendships and the overlap between their social lives.

• Ending Friendships & Conflict

  • Vogue shares stories of explicitly ending friendships, rejecting “ghosting” and valuing directness:
    • “I don’t understand the ghosting thing … I think just tell them.” (12:38, Vogue)
    • She views clarity and honesty—even if painful—as acts of respect: “Clarity being the ultimate act of love and friendship in a way.” (13:25, Elizabeth)
  • Conflict is addressed head-on: Vogue prefers honest conversations over brushing issues under the rug, unlike her husband.

• Memorable Exchange:

  • Playful talk of friendship therapy and future plans:
    • “If we ever have conflict … we’ll go see a friendship therapist.” (14:35, Elizabeth)
    • “And you’re going to live next door to me. And our bedrooms will look into each other’s windows.” (14:38, Elizabeth)

2. Dawn French on Friendship Through “Itinerant” Childhoods and Collaboration

• Military Upbringings & Friendship Skill-Building

  • Dawn describes growing up as an RAF child, frequently moving, always needing to make new friends, and adapting quickly:
    • “You’re constantly putting on a personality fireworks display to make sure that you inveigle yourself into new friendship groups … It’s exhausting.” (15:25, Dawn)
  • She finds relief and kinship in others with similar backgrounds—including Jennifer Saunders.

• First Impressions and Class Barriers with Jennifer Saunders

  • Dawn recounts her initial discomfort with Jennifer, shaped by class divides within military society:
    • “She was an officer’s daughter … I regarded her as out of my league.” (17:47, Dawn)
    • Her “prejudice against posh people” faded once real friendship developed.

• Growing Beyond Prejudices and Learning From Each Other

  • Despite vast differences, Dawn and Jennifer learned to appreciate and love each other deeply, class distinctions melting away:
    • “It was only when we kind of fell in love with each other when we lived together that all of those prejudices melted away.” (20:08, Dawn)

• Platonic Love and Safety in Friendship

  • Recounting their professional and personal partnership, Dawn and Elizabeth discuss the concept of “falling in platonic love” and how safe attachments in friendship can be sustaining:
    • “I think it’s the most sustaining, most consistent love of my life.” (20:50, Elizabeth)

• Working Together Without Rupture

  • Dawn and Jennifer have avoided major rows, thanks to constant temperature checks and unspoken compromise:
    • “We take a sort of constant temperature of each other. So we’ve never got to a difficult row.” (22:10, Dawn)
    • They intuitively sense when to let the other lead, especially in creative collaboration.

• Jealousy and Friendship

  • Dawn addresses envy of a friend’s success, especially Jennifer’s with “Ab Fab,” but describes being able to feel joy for your friend while also recognizing difficult emotions:
    • “You have a cocktail of emotions. … What I’m all for is owning the rather ugly little moments … and explain it to the other person.” (23:47, Dawn)
  • This openness allows for understanding and growth within friendships—likening it to sisterhood.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the Effort of Friendship:

  • “You can really take your friends for granted, especially if they’ve been your friends for … years. … But it is hard to find time for friends, but it’s so important because they’ll be your constant in your life forever if you nurture them.”
    — Vogue Williams (04:12–05:29)

• On Directness and Ending Friendships:

  • “Clarity being the ultimate act of love and friendship in a way.”
    — Elizabeth Day (13:25)
  • “I don’t understand the ghosting thing. … I think just tell them.”
    — Vogue Williams (12:38)

• On Childhood Shaping Friendships:

  • “You’re constantly putting on a personality fireworks display to make sure you inveigle yourself into new friendship groups. … It’s exhausting.”
    — Dawn French (15:20)

• On Platonic Love:

  • “We kind of fell in love with each other when we lived together and all those prejudices melted away.”
    — Dawn French (20:08)
  • “It’s the most sustaining, most consistent love of my life.”
    — Elizabeth Day (20:50)

• On Jealousy and Friendship:

  • “You have a cocktail of emotions. … owning the rather ugly little moments … and explain it to the other person … they can help you through it.”
    — Dawn French (23:47)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:12–08:32 – Vogue Williams on friendship failures, guilt, and redefining priorities after motherhood
• 08:32–10:00 – Navigating fame, trust, and boundaries in friendships
• 10:33–12:32 – Ending friendships, sister as best friend, and direct conflict
• 12:32–14:21 – Vogue on directness versus ghosting, dealing with conflict
• 15:07–16:58 – Dawn French on military childhood, moving, and friendship survival skills
• 17:12–20:31 – Meeting Jennifer Saunders: class boundaries, first impressions, deepening connection
• 20:43–23:29 – Platonic love, safety in attachment, and professional collaboration
• 23:29–24:35 – Jealousy and honesty in friendship, likened to sibling relationships

Conclusion

Both Vogue Williams and Dawn French offer honest, often humorous reflections on failing and learning in friendship—whether it’s neglecting old friends, navigating fame, confronting hard truths, or overcoming childhood insecurities. Through their stories, the episode champions the value of vulnerability, directness, and the joy found in nurturing lifelong relationships.

A fail shared is a fail halved—as Elizabeth Day’s podcast joyfully proves.