Podcast Summary: How To Fail With Elizabeth Day
Episode: ON IVF… With Jessel Taank and Paloma Faith
Original Release: December 1, 2025

Overview:

This episode tackles the fraught, emotionally charged, and often hidden world of IVF (in vitro fertilization) and fertility struggles. Host Elizabeth Day is joined by Real Housewives of New York star Jessel Taank and singer-songwriter Paloma Faith for raw, honest conversations about their personal experiences with infertility, IVF, miscarriage, social expectations of motherhood, and the impact of these challenges on career, relationships, and identity. The episode provides comfort and solidarity to anyone experiencing fertility issues, while challenging stigmas and breaking open uncomfortable but crucial topics about womanhood and failure.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Social Conditioning, Maternal Identity, and Ambition

Guest: Jessel Taank | 04:43–08:58

• Jessel shares that she never saw herself as maternal, feeling societal pressure to have children after marriage despite her strong career ambitions:
  • "As women…you are expected to bear children…It is almost forced upon us." (Jessel, 04:53)
• The decision to try for children was mainly influenced by her husband's desires:
  • "We did delay it as much as we could…I wanted to travel…But there came time where I knew my husband really wanted kids." (Jessel, 05:30)
• She describes how years of unsuccessful conception subsumed her ambitions and led to a loss of self, frustration, and a feeling of career limbo.
• The IVF journey was isolating; she chose not to share with family to avoid stigma and gossip.

2. The Psychological Toll and Language of Failure

Host & Guest: Elizabeth Day, Jessel Taank | 06:47–15:28

• Elizabeth connects, explaining how IVF feels like "taking on another job"—one fraught with uncertainty and lacking a merit-based outcome:
  • "You are doing all of the work, and sometimes the results just aren't fair." (Elizabeth, 06:47)
• Day highlights the damaging language in fertility medicine:
  • "Medical language around fertility for women is often the language of failure. You have an incompetent cervix, inhospitable womb, failing to respond to medication…that really worms its way inside your psyche." (Elizabeth, 07:31)
• Both women discuss personal and cultural taboos that amplify the shame and sense of failure around infertility.

3. The Impact on Relationships

Jessel Taank | 09:15–10:36, 18:09–22:10

• Jessel candidly describes projecting her frustration onto her husband Pavit, who became a “punching bag” during their $100,000-plus fertility journey.
  • "Financially, it took a toll…that's a down payment on a house." (Jessel, 09:26)
  • "I blamed him a lot. It wasn't his fault…because he was the only person in this with me." (Jessel, 09:15)
• She describes relationship doubts during this period:
  • "Is this a sign where I should be doing something completely different…Should I just, like, end this right now and just be a successful entrepreneur and do it on my own?" (Jessel, 10:16)
• Upon successful IVF and the birth of twins, they faced another adjustment, with Pavit taking on the primary caregiver role.

4. The Reality and Aftermath of IVF Success

Jessel Taank | 12:47–17:42

• Jessel got pregnant after five rounds of IVF and transferring two embryos against medical advice (14:08–14:22). Her reaction was a mix of relief and startling reality:
  • "The feeling of getting pregnant at that time was just like, wow…I was so excited…And then I had them, and I was like, oh crap, they're here to stay." (Jessel, 14:10)
• She describes motherhood’s intensity using a vivid metaphor:
  • "Having twins is…like you buy tickets to a rave and you want to go to the rave, but then when you're at the rave, you just can't leave. You're constantly dancing to the music, and it's very intense." (Jessel, 16:46)
• Jessel admits she's "not maternal," emphasizing her wish to maintain ambition and identity beyond motherhood:
  • "I have my kids, and I'm so grateful…but I don't want my life to revolve around the fact that I am a mother…And coming to terms with that was really tough." (Jessel, 15:28)
• Her husband’s support is crucial: "Pavit…has really almost taken that role of being the mother and the father while I'm pursuing what I'm doing." (Jessel, 16:10)

5. The Invisible Burdens: Body Image, Intimacy, PTSD

Elizabeth Day, Jessel Taank | 18:09–21:06

• IVF’s physical and emotional side effects led Jessel to feel disconnected from herself and Pavit:
  • "You feel bloated, you feel…you just don’t feel like yourself…I felt desperate, and I had to combat this thing." (Jessel, 19:30–20:34)
• Intimacy became mechanical, damaging their connection:
  • "The intimacy really took a deep dive…when I have the kids, I just needed to focus on me and not my marriage in a way." (Jessel, 18:09)
• Elizabeth shares that only after her twelve-year journey ended did she recognize the toll on her body and identity, and how weight training restored a sense of self.

6. The Partner’s Trauma and Unspoken Suffering

Jessel Taank | 21:25–22:41

• Jessel reflects on her husband’s silent struggles and the tendency to overlook the partner's burden:
  • "The focus was on me and my trauma…I didn’t talk about Pavit and what he went through…people sort of dismiss the husband." (Jessel, 21:25)
• She resolves no longer to justify her relationship to others.

7. Paloma Faith’s Story: Loss, Medical Trauma, and Mental Health

Paloma Faith, Elizabeth Day | 23:24–32:44

• Paloma details a tumultuous experience:
  • Ectopic pregnancy (damaging a fallopian tube)
  • Emergency Caesarean after protracted labor (“seven hours sleep in seven days”), leading to postpartum psychosis and unrecognized depression.
  • The relentless pursuit for a second child through multiple failed transfers and one more egg retrieval.
• The isolation of infertility:
  • "No one really knows it’s happening. It’s quite a lonely thing…even if you’ve got a partner, you’re still alone in it." (Paloma, 23:26)
• Paloma reflects on her own “obsessive” focus during IVF:
  • "A woman doing IVF becomes almost like in this trance-like state…You don't even consider what might be lost…you're just about having these babies." (Paloma, 27:41)
• She only realized afterward that her depression had affected her relationship:
  • "I was probably depressed for a couple of years without realizing…It's only when it passes that I realized that I had been mentally unwell." (Paloma, 26:49)
• She questions if medication or more open discussion might have changed her relationship’s outcome.

8. The Myth of “Natural” Motherhood and Social Pressures

Paloma Faith, Elizabeth Day | 30:22–32:46

• Paloma calls out the social narrative that motherhood is both a biological “duty” and the most fulfilling thing a woman can do:
  • "We’re groomed to think that's our job…that’s the most fulfilling thing you can do as a woman. That's not true." (Paloma, 31:08)
  • She openly admits she draws fulfillment from other sources and sometimes misses spontaneity.
• Elizabeth echoes the way medicine blames and marginalizes women through its language, and both decry terms like “geriatric mother," "failed transfer," "incompetent cervix," and "inhospitable womb.”

9. Lightness, Humor, and Moving Forward

Paloma Faith | 34:01–36:11

• Paloma brings her signature wit in describing her two daughters (“yin and yang”) and predicts how their personalities will play out in her old age:
  • "I'm not a princess. I'm the queen of darkness," (Paloma’s daughter, 34:41)
• The episode ends on a note of ongoing self-discovery, humor, acceptance, and finding fulfillment in multiple aspects of life.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On career and IVF:
  • "When I think about my successes, it was always surrounding my career…when it wasn't happening…I was like, maybe this isn't meant to be." (Jessel, 05:15)
• On failure and stigma:
  • "The language [in fertility medicine]…is often the language of failure." (Elizabeth, 07:31)
• On ambition and motherhood:
  • "I have my kids, and I'm so grateful…But I don't want my life to revolve around the fact that I am a mother…Coming to terms with that was really tough." (Jessel, 15:28)
• On being child-free:
  • "I am truly at peace with the fact that I won't have a biological child in this lifetime." (Elizabeth, 11:53)
• On “maternal” expectations:
  • "Even when you've got kids, you're made to feel guilty if you don't think that your kids are the most fulfilling thing in your life." (Paloma, 31:31)
• On society's narratives:
  • "We've all arrived at this point in history where we're like…I’m trying to get my career going, and then it means that we're having children later…and my mum's always like, your body wouldn't cope with it.” (Paloma, 31:40)

Significant Timestamps

• 04:43: Jessel begins her story—social pressure vs. ambition
• 09:02: The strain of secrecy and relationship impact
• 12:47/14:08: Jessel describes successful IVF and twin pregnancy
• 16:46: Jessel’s rave metaphor for twin motherhood
• 18:09: Jessel discusses IVF’s toll on intimacy and self-image
• 23:24: Paloma describes her failures—ectopic pregnancy, mental health
• 26:49: Unrecognized depression post-childbirth (Paloma)
• 31:08: Paloma on being “groomed” to see motherhood as the primary fulfillment for women
• 34:41: Paloma’s daughter declares herself “queen of darkness”—comic highlight

Tone and Language

The language throughout is deeply personal, authentic, and unguarded, weaving humor and healing into difficult revelations. Both Elizabeth Day and her guests move between laughter, tears, and moments of insight—seeking not just catharsis but also solidarity for listeners facing similar challenges.

Conclusion

This episode of "How To Fail" is an essential listen for anyone grappling with infertility, IVF, miscarriage, or the intersection of motherhood and ambition. By diving into private pain with candor, vulnerability, and wit, Elizabeth, Jessel, and Paloma challenge stigma and reshape the narrative of success, failure, and fulfillment for women—and for all those touched by infertility and parenthood.