How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Episode: ON PERSPECTIVE… With Adeel Akhtar and Pat Cummins

Date: December 8, 2025

Episode Overview

This reflective episode of How To Fail With Elizabeth Day delves into the concept of perspective—exploring how even the world’s most accomplished individuals struggle to maintain it. Through candid conversations with actor Adeel Akhtar and cricketing legend Pat Cummins, the podcast examines how significant life events, including parenthood and loss, reshape priorities and alter the meaning of success and failure. Both guests discuss their journeys toward keeping a balanced view on career, emotion, and relationships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Adeel Akhtar: The Evolution of Perspective

[03:12 – 07:02]

• Early Career and Overthinking

  • Adeel shares how, as a younger actor, he became obsessed with minuscule details about his characters to the point of anxiety, investing disproportionate energy into aspects like what kind of sandwiches his character would eat.

    “My failing perspective when I was a lot younger would be like, right, all the research, how does he walk? What's his shoes? Does he like prawn sandwiches? ... With age, you could sort of be a bit more economic with your energy and how you invest in things and stuff.”
    (Adeel Akhtar, 03:16–04:02)

• Mental Health and Self-Perception

  • Touching on his experience with depression during his late twenties and early thirties, Adeel identifies the incongruity between self-perception and external performance as a root cause for his anxiety. With maturity, he found it easier to just be himself.

    “There's a sort of incongruity between how you see yourself and how you're trying to present yourself to the world. And now I'm just sort of caught up with the fact of not having to perform any other part of myself that isn't weird and complicated.”
    (Adeel Akhtar, 04:37–05:18)

• Parenthood and ‘Emperor Narcissism’

  • Adeel describes how raising children, and encountering the concept of ‘Emperor Narcissism’ (the developmental stage where children see themselves as the center of the universe), deepened his understanding of emotional needs.

    “My kids have just taught me to sort of go further and deeper in that journey, really.”
    (Adeel Akhtar, 06:31–07:02)

2. Pat Cummins: Loss, Presence, and Family

[07:02 – 12:10]

• Loss of his Mother and Maintaining Perspective

  • Pat explores the impact of losing his mother to breast cancer, how it reframed his approach to both family and career, and the tension between professional obligations and personal grief.

    “I felt that tussle as well. I think of just wanting to be a son, but... half me wanted to continue to keep playing, but the other half just wanted to be a son lying at the foot of the bed.”
    (Pat Cummins, 07:28–08:45)

• The Power of Parental Protection

  • Reflecting on his childhood, Pat discusses how his parents shielded him and his siblings from the severity of their mother’s illness—a gesture he recognizes as a profound act of parental love.

    “You don't realize till afterwards, when you're a parent and you're an adult, just the severity of it. ...They knew this day was going to come, whereas I probably, all of us kids probably hadn't fully grasped that.”
    (Pat Cummins, 09:04–09:48)

• Time, Priorities, and Presence

  • The loss of his mother sharpened his understanding of what matters, changing his approach from deferring family time for career ambitions to prioritizing meaningful moments right now.

    “I've definitely changed my mindset now. It's like, no, I'm going to live life, you know, say a big emphatic yes to things that we want to really do as a family... When we're on tour, let's make sure we have the time of our lives.”
    (Pat Cummins, 10:40–11:22)

• Continuing Bonds and Leadership Lessons from Mum

  • Pat recalls how he feels his mother's presence on the cricket field and highlights her ongoing legacy through the community groups and leadership she modeled.

    “She'd go and feed the charity on Wednesday. You'd never hear a bad word said about Mum. She was amazing.”
    (Pat Cummins, 11:38–12:05)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Adeel Akhtar on Over-Investing Energy:

  “With age, you could sort of be a bit more economic with your energy and how you invest in things and stuff.”
  (03:59)

• Adeel Akhtar on Authenticity:

  “Now I'm just sort of caught up with the fact of not having to perform any other part of myself that isn't weird and complicated.”
  (05:08)

• Pat Cummins on His Mother's Legacy:

  "She set up like a play group for, you know, the community and all us kind of kids ... Did everything you could imagine."
  (11:38–12:05)

• Pat Cummins on Priority Shifts:

  “I've definitely changed my mindset now. It's like, no, I'm going to live life, you know, say a big emphatic yes to things that we want to really do as a family.”
  (10:40)

Timestamps for Significant Segments

• [03:12] – Adeel Akhtar discusses his former struggle to keep things in perspective
• [04:02] – Insights on how age and experience shift energy investment
• [04:37] – Depression, authenticity, and emotional incongruence
• [05:39] – ‘Emperor Narcissism’ and the perspective shift from parenthood
• [07:28] – Pat Cummins recounts losing his mother while on tour
• [09:10] – The protective role of parents during his mother’s illness
• [10:40] – How bereavement redefined Pat's priorities and approach to life
• [11:22] – Pat on the continuing influence of his mother and lessons in leadership

Tone & Language

Elizabeth Day leads the conversation with empathy and gentle curiosity, while both guests are frank, self-aware, and reflective—blending humor, grief, and wisdom. The episode offers listeners a nuanced exploration of vulnerability, family, and personal growth, all through the honest articulation of “failures” that ultimately shape us for the better.