← How To Fail With Elizabeth Day
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- [00:00]
A
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- [03:10]
B
Merlin. Yeah, I remember this very, very well. I got raised in a household. My dad's black, from the West Indies, from Nevis. My mum's white, born and raised up north in Leeds. So they're a mixed couple. Which back in those days, there was a lot of stigma attached to that. There was a lot of NF national fronts. For example, my mum used to have to hand me to my dad on the bus so that he wouldn't get beaten up for being black and black with a white woman. So I got brought up with a very even outlook. I'm not black. I'm not white. I'm mixed. And I love that because I had friends before at school that were mixed, and I couldn't understand why they just call themselves black or just call themselves just white. I'd be like, yeah, but you're mixed. That's your mum and your dad. You've got the best of both worlds.
- [03:57]
A
Just quickly, what do you think of the term biracial?
- [04:01]
B
I don't get it.
- [04:02]
A
Okay.
- [04:02]
B
I don't get it, and I don't appreciate it.
- [04:04]
A
Good to know, because some people hate being called mixed.
- [04:07]
B
It used to really annoy me that when I used to fill out the passport form, it would be black, white or other. Now it's black, white, mixed with this, mixed with that, this and that. And I think, no, I'm just mixed, and I'm proud of that. So my mother got me into dance class. It was like Tempe for me to go for an hour. I think it was like three times a week, so. And because I had lots of energy, my mum was like, oh, God, give me a break. She's come home from school, she's done her homework. I'll put her in dance class down the street. So I became obsessed with just performing. And so there was an audition that a few of my friends were going to, and it was for the von Trapp family. And my mum, in a very, very mum way, tried to explain, you know, you're not gonna get it because you're not white with blonde hair and blue eyes. Not that. She said that. And I blocked that out anyway. I was like, no, it's an audition. Because once they see me, they're Gonna. They're gonna want me to be part of the stage performance. Finally she got in the car and drove me. And still on the journey there, she's like, melanie, are you sure you wanna do this? Because, you know. And I was like, I am adamant. I am gonna go to that audition, I'm gonna nail it and I'm gonna get the job anyway. I didn't get the job because it was far easier back in those days to say, oh, you two, this. We can't be as direct and rightly so. But that just goes to show that even though I knew it deep down, I didn't care. I still wanted to make sure that I went there so they could see me perform, regardless of my colour.
- [05:35]
A
So many things strike me about this story. One is your incredible work ethic. And that's something that I feel like you've always had.
- [05:40]
B
Yeah. My mum and dad had that.
- [05:42]
A
You will just prove yourself.
- [05:43]
B
Yeah.
- [05:44]
A
Again and again and again.
- [05:45]
B
Yeah.
- [05:46]
A
Where do you think that work ethic came from for your mum and your dad? Different places, I imagine.
- [05:50]
B
Well, my dad came to England, I think, when he was. Was he nine? His grandmother looked after him in Nevis and that. And that was quite common back in those days. So when he came over, he didn't really know his parents, didn't. Didn't really fit in in school. So he learned how to weld copper. Because back in those days, if you learn a trade, you're set for life, really. You always have a job. So I was raised with my dad doing one week of morning shifts, one week of afternoon shifts, one week of night shifts and it was a routine. And my dad never missed a day, no matter hail, rain or snow. And he. He used to ride his bike to work. My mum took on an extra job because of the 10p a week dance classes and stuff like that and costumes that she would hand make. So I've always known if you. You've got to rely on yourself, you can't rely on anybody else. You've got to make your own money.
- [06:41]
A
The other thing that strikes me about it is that you do not complain.
- [06:45]
C
No.
- [06:46]
A
You get on with it and you don't moan.
- [06:49]
B
No.
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A
Which is many things. It's quite northern. Just to like generalise horribly.
- [06:54]
B
It is quite north.
- [06:55]
A
It's quite showbiz, like the show must go on.
- [06:58]
B
I don't know. There's some celebrities that mourn about everything.
- [07:03]
A
Yes. You're not one of them. I mean, it's two schools today.
- [07:05]
B
I'm not.
- [07:08]
A
Who are they? Name them Nobody.
- [07:10]
B
No, you can. Jerry Halliwell. No, I'm joking.
- [07:15]
A
But there are moments in Bruce Lee, honest, where you do talk about the fact that the National Front was a presence, that you got called horrible names at school. You did get bullied, but what was your response?
- [07:26]
B
Well, my mum and dad used to say, for a start, fight your own battles. Even though you'd been chased all the way from school to the house, which was a good 25 minute run, because back then they didn't know what to call me. Did they call me Half Breed? Do they call me the N word? And I'd be like, I'm mixed. And then I'd run, run away because I was trying to get me. But I fought my own battles.
- [07:47]
A
So when you got rejected for the.
- [07:49]
B
Von Trapp family, I mean, I just went, whatever. That's the. Their loss. But was inside I was crushed. But I went to a lot of auditions and I'm thankful for that time because literally an audition back in those days, you'd get told, no, too thin, too fat, too dark, too light, it be that brutal. So you'd go, oh, okay then. Well, I'm not going to have an eating disorder because I like my booty. I'm just going to go to another audition.
- [08:14]
A
Those rejections taught you a lot about resilience.
- [08:17]
B
Yeah, yeah, I think that's you. If you ask anybody from back in those days when they were auditioning, they would all have like rhino skin, hard skin. It is a northern thing. You just pick yourself up and you just keep going.
- [08:31]
A
Were the other Spice Girls like that?
- [08:33]
B
Mel C. Very much. I think we all were in our own individual ways because we were like the rejects out of all of our different groups of friends. So coming together, you know, we, that's why we were so strong and we felt such a connection because we were all not hard done by, but we didn't really fit in anywhere. But yet we fitted together, even though we're all completely different looking and from completely different backgrounds, really. But I mean, when I think about it, Geri's mum, I mean she, she was a cleaner, her dad was a car salesman. Victoria's slightly different because she got driven to school in a Rolls Royce, but she still had to work hard, you know. MEL C. Single parent, got, got brought up in Liverpool, so we've all had our like, not perfect family lives, if you want to call it that.
- [09:21]
A
And he became your chosen family in a way.
- [09:23]
B
Oh, 100%, yeah. And we went through something so special that only the five of us really can know what that feels like. Because to have such a whirlwind and have so many doors closed, like, in our face. Girl band's not gonna work. We're like, well, why not? Well, surrounded by boy bands. Right, we get it. But why? Why isn't this gonna work? So we're gonna knock on another door and another door and another door until we find somebody that believed in us, you know?
- [09:50]
A
There are so many incredible Spice Girls tracks, but my personal favorite is Holla, which I think is well underrated. I loved it.
- [09:57]
B
How we used to write is we'd all come in with some kind of a topic or a theme, but it was always driven by one of our situations or the fact that, you know, we didn't want to be picked on anymore. So we have to make sure it's clear that we are girl supporting girls and not where it goes too much into the fantasy world. It's genuinely us five, because we really like each other.
- [10:18]
A
Yes. That's so great. And you're also so good about putting out into the universe the fact that you want a Spice Girls reunion.
- [10:24]
B
I always say it. And it will.
- [10:26]
A
Okay, good. It will.
- [10:27]
B
It will. No, we are actually in talks, all five of us. I can't say what for.
- [10:32]
A
Let's get onto your first failure. Yay. Because we're here to celebrate vulnerability and authenticity.
- [10:39]
C
That's how we learn and grow and evolve.
- [10:42]
A
Exactly. Your first failure is to do with the struggles that got you where you are today.
- [10:50]
C
I remember, I think it was around 2008. I was in New York City, and I was with my manager at the time. And I had worked so hard on this demo and this portfolio with pictures, and I even did my own music video and songs that I recorded and original songs that I recorded. I was shopping it around, determined to get a solo deal. I went around to every record label, and during that day, it was the actual blackout, the big blackout that happened in New York City. And there I was in Arista, top of this building, blackout happens. The execs running around. I'm singing my song Acapella in the dark. And he's like, keep going. And he's like, grabbing his stuff, freaking out, and then he just bolts out of the door and goes down the fire escape, as you do in New York City. That was my last. And my audition couldn't cut a break. No one would pick me up. And I was really down about that. But what was great is that I still had that portfolio. So when I had heard about the Pussycat Dolls audition, I was fully equipped to give them my music and everything, and the rest was. The rest was history. So that happened with pcd. I don't think people realizes that for a long time. For the Pussycat Dolls, I was first in a group called Pop Stars. And first I was in an actual rock group, acoustic rock group, signed to Geffen Records called Days of the New. And we toured with, like, Foo Fighters and Bush and everything. Then I was in Pop Stars, and then I was trying to go solo, and that led me to the Dolls. And people don't realize the journey. Yeah. All the doors closed.
- [12:49]
A
Yes. Cause you dropped out of college to tour with that rock band as well, didn't you?
- [12:54]
C
Yes, I did.
- [12:55]
A
And then Pop Stars was the reality TV show, and you formed Eden's Crush off the back of that.
- [13:01]
C
Yes.
- [13:02]
A
And I didn't know either. So I'm really glad that you've shared that story. The idea of doing an audition in a citywide blackout. In a blackout, and then having to pick yourself up and try again, keep trying and keep.
- [13:16]
C
I just.
- [13:17]
A
Yeah.
- [13:17]
C
When you have. You have to believe. You have to have that vision, and you just can't let go of it, because if you could see it, if you could dream it, then it could happen. And so I just never let up. And then the Dolls came along, that audition. And what's cool is that I never imagined that's how I would get my first break. And I actually signed a solo deal the same day as I signed the Dolls deal. Wow. So it's. I'm just saying things come in different boxes, not when you expect them. Right. Like, for me, I'm very spiritual, so I like to say that God has bigger plans and a bigger imagination than we could ever. We actually limit ourselves with how we think. So sometimes we think like, okay, I want to go this way. And it's like, no, you're actually aligned and meant to go that way, and that's going to get you to go back that way. Does that make any sense?
- [14:06]
A
It makes total sense. And I. I'm a big believer of it as well. The things that haven't worked out for me personally, I strive to try and learn the meaning behind that and the purpose that might be disguised within that struggle.
- [14:20]
C
Like, things aren't happening. One of my favourite lines is, it's not happening to me. It's happening for me.
- [14:26]
A
I want to talk a little bit about your work ethic, because what listeners to this podcast might not appreciate is that you turned up with notes that you had made pages and Pages yellow, Full scalp notes that you had made in preparation for this book podcast. I'm so appreciative of that and I recognize that quality in myself. And again, I think maybe a lot of women.
- [14:48]
C
Yeah, I can see that. As you're like, telling, reminding me of my own career and my track record, I'm like, wow, she knows more about myself than I do.
- [14:57]
A
But I think a lot of women, or maybe marginalized people in some way feel that they need to over prepare in order to be able to show up, in order to be able not to be underestimated by mainstream culture. And I want to ask you a bit about that, but I also just want to go back to your childhood. How much do you think your work ethic is shaped by how you grew up? Because you didn't have a lot of money growing up, so were you always aware of the need to work to make a living?
- [15:27]
C
Absolutely. When you grow up not having any money and your family is struggling, it's kind of embarrassing. It's really embarrassing. Then as you get older, I thank God every day that I came from nothing, because it's what made me me. It's what shaped me. It didn't break me, you know, it made me. What doesn't break you, makes you. And it's built me to who I am today. And I do have that very strong work ethic because of it, that insatiable work ethic. I think it runs in my blood as well, My Hawaiian, Ukrainian, Filipino blood. It runs in our blood. But I'm super grateful for it because I don't take anything for granted. And I always feel like I'm always striving for excellence and greatness. I think it could drive some of the people who work around me crazy because I'm like, it could always be better. I still tell Jamie, I can do better. I know I can do better. I just always want to strive for greatness and excellence. Otherwise I feel like I'm not making it count and I'm wasting my time here. Of what I'm supposed to truly be doing.
- [16:38]
A
Does that manifest itself in your romantic relationship?
- [16:42]
C
I think so. I think sometimes it could be unhealthy in that way. When not only in a romantic relationship, but also with the relationship with yourself, where you work too much that you're not able to celebrate those wins and those victories and just truly be present and be happy and be in awe and enjoy those moments. You know, There was this quote I.
- [17:07]
A
Read that made me sad about, I think one of your first parts that you got age 14 was the lead in Alice in Wonderland. And you had said, I couldn't believe that I got this part because I was up against a blonde girl with blue eyes. Is that a feeling that has stayed with you? That feeling of not looking the part or not being some way that someone else is?
- [17:35]
C
Well, I think that's what's so beautiful now of where we've progressed and into this day and age. You know, I'm playing Norma Desmond. You know, people might have not. I think I saw Lea Salonga and I storied it the other day. It said three Filipinos are now leading on leading roles on the West End. Like, it's never been like that in history, you know, so we've come a long way since then. But back then, yeah, that was unheard of. But my teacher, Ms. Matthias, was so radical in the way that she thought and she just defied, she broke all the rules and she didn't care care. And she looked at me and she's like, that's Alice in Wonderland. And that was many moons ago. I mean, gosh, I'm 45 now. That was what, 26 years ago? I mean, so kudos for her for being so forward thinking and giving me that opportunity. But yes, the fact of the matter was back then it was like that, you know, I was like a little brownie. I didn't look like everybody else in Louisville, Kentucky growing up. But that's what the blessing was, is that it makes me so unique today.
- [18:44]
A
You know, and at the time, what were your parents thinking of your ambition and your vision to be.
- [18:50]
C
They just let me go. They knew when I was like 6 years old and I heard the Greatest Love of All, Whitney Houston was like the voice of God to me. And I just. They knew that I had my own ambitions. I was always had this dream and vision and they just supported me. Like I said, we didn't come from much. So it's not like they're like, go and be a doctor or a lawyer. They're like, wow, you're taking the wheel.
- [19:20]
A
Please do follow how to fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends this is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.
- [19:36]
D
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