Podcast Summary: How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Episode: ON SCHOOL… With Jamie Dornan and Bernie Sanders

Host: Elizabeth Day
Guests: Jamie Dornan, Bernie Sanders
Release Date: October 19, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Elizabeth Day explores the theme of school-related failures with her guests, actor Jamie Dornan and U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders. Both share formative stories of not quite meeting expectations in their school years—Dornan with academic underachievement in Northern Ireland, Sanders with being cut from his high school basketball team in Brooklyn. Their reflections emphasize how disappointments at a young age can shape character, redirect ambitions, and cultivate personal growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jamie Dornan on Failing at School

• School as Social, Not Academic, Space (02:57 – 04:00)

  • Dornan describes his school years at Methody in Belfast as centered around friendship and sport rather than academics.

  • He admits he did “literally, literally nothing” in terms of revision or work, and confesses this is not advice he would give his kids.

    Quote:

    "I don't look back in school and think that it was a failure... I was there to gain friends and play sport… I really didn't [do any work]." – Jamie Dornan [03:00]

• The Performative Nature of Exam Preparation (04:00 – 05:50)

  • He details how the culture among peers was to claim not having studied, though most secretly did.
  • Dornan claims he was the exception—he actually didn’t study, and his results reflected that.

• Critique of School Structure & Authority (05:50 – 08:40)

  • Criticizes the intimidating environment at Methody, notably the lack of approachable teachers and the "us vs. them" dynamic.

  • Recalls the performative respect for teachers, enforced through strict uniform rules, but explains how it bred alienation rather than respect.

    Quote:

    “You'd have my respect if you smiled at me and knew my name and were wearing normal fucking clothes and not some fucking sinister black cape.” – Jamie Dornan [06:52]

• Struggles with Conformity & Narrow Career Paths (08:40 – 09:50)

  • Shares feelings of being pushed toward traditional careers (doctor, lawyer, business), with creativity or alternative vocations dismissed.

  • Mentions feeling “stupid,” not from lack of intelligence, but because his talents weren’t recognized by the school.

    Quote:

    "I didn't think I was stupid, but I felt like I was made to feel I was stupid quite a lot at that school." – Jamie Dornan [08:05]

• Personal Trauma & Academic Consequences (09:50 – 11:00)

  • Reveals his mother died after his GCSEs, and four best friends died the following year—major factors contributing to his lack of academic engagement.
  • Describes feeling aimless but sticking to the “done thing” trajectory of A-levels and university, which didn't fit him.

• Retrospective: Failure as Redirection (11:00 – 13:20)

  • Admits that had he performed well, he might have stayed on a path (office work) that wouldn’t have suited him.

  • Suggests that “failing” at school ultimately allowed him to discover his passions and achieve satisfaction.

    Quote:

    "...had I really taken those exams seriously... I'd be on a very different path and I just wouldn't be happy. So actually that failure at school for me... worked to my favour in a really big way." – Jamie Dornan [12:44]

Elizabeth Day on Her Own School Experience

• Contrast with Dornan’s Experience (09:00 – 09:50)
  • Day shares her own memories of Methody, describing it as isolating, approval-driven, and regimented. She felt out of place because of her English accent and pressure to succeed at exams.
  • Both reflect on how their differing responses to the environment shaped their paths.

Bernie Sanders on Athletic Failure

• High School Basketball Disappointment (13:30 – 14:17)

  • Sanders recalls loving basketball, making his junior varsity team, and cherishing his gold and white uniform.

  • He describes the pain of being cut from the team, realizing he was “good, but not good enough.”

    Quote:

    "Well, I was a good basketball player, but I grew up in a community where there were a lot of other good basketball players... The coach said, well, sorry, you're not going to be on the team anymore. So that was very disappointing." – Bernie Sanders [13:37]

• Finding New Strengths After Setback (14:17 – 15:16)

  • Redirected his energies to track and field, ultimately becoming one of New York City’s top long-distance runners and team captain.

    Quote:

    "The failure was not making the basketball team, but where that became converted into a success story was that being a good runner... gave me a sense of confidence that I might not otherwise have had." – Bernie Sanders [15:05]

• Processing Rejection & Building Confidence (15:37 – 16:22)

  • Sanders opens up about the hurt from the basketball team rejection, but focuses on how running restored his confidence.
  • Discusses the emotional impact of failure in one’s teenage years.

• Background & Family Influence (16:49 – 18:01)

  • Shares stories about his immigrant father’s bravery, his brother’s role as a mentor, and growing up in a modest household.
  • Reveals that his brother’s interest in politics and books influenced Sanders’ future inclinations.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Jamie Dornan:

  “I really didn't. I don't say that with any pride at all. As I said before, it's not a message I will pass on to my kids.” [04:10]

• Elizabeth Day:

  “My memory of it was very much, I need to do well at exams to get approval. And that was a kind of habit that shaped the rest of my life in quite a negative way.” [09:05]

• Bernie Sanders:

  “It was painful, sure. I loved basketball, and I very much wanted to make the varsity. And it was a very harsh blow that I was not going to be able to do that. No ifs, buts and maybes. So it hurt.” [16:04]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:57 – 09:50] Jamie Dornan on school, motivation, conformity, trauma, and retrospect
• [09:00 – 09:50] Elizabeth Day’s own reflections on school
• [13:30 – 15:16] Bernie Sanders on failing at basketball and finding success in running
• [16:04 – 16:22] Sanders on processing disappointment and building confidence
• [16:49 – 18:01] Sanders on family background and formative influences

Episode Takeaways

• Failure as a Redirection: Both guests illustrate how school-age failures can push individuals to re-examine their strengths, challenge prescribed paths, and ultimately find success and fulfilment in unexpected ways.
• Breaking the Mold: Dornan and Sanders discuss the limitations of rigid educational and social structures, underscoring the need for environments that recognize and nurture diverse talents.
• The Complexity of Adolescence: The episode empathetically explores how personal loss, rigid institutional structures, or competitive setbacks can deeply affect young people, but may also foster resilience and self-discovery.

This episode is an honest, nuanced reminder that even high-achievers and public figures often began as “failures,” and that failure is not only survivable, but can become the engine for our greatest growth.