Podcast Summary: How To Fail with Elizabeth Day

Episode: ON WRITING... With Salman Rushdie and Kazuo Ishiguro

Release Date: September 21, 2025
Host: Elizabeth Day
Guests: Kazuo Ishiguro, Salman Rushdie

Episode Overview

This special compilation episode of How To Fail features two literary giants, Kazuo Ishiguro and Salman Rushdie, sharing candid insights into their creative processes, personal anxieties, and the lessons found in perceived failures. Elizabeth Day, while marking the publication week of her own novel, explores with her guests how doubt, exposure, and adversity have shaped their lives and writing. The episode probes deep questions about the value of art, the role of emotion versus truth, the importance of supportive relationships, and the resilience demanded by both creativity and life itself.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Kazuo Ishiguro on Imposter Syndrome and the Value of Writing

• Early Days at UEA:

  • Ishiguro recalls feeling apprehensive and fearing humiliation when starting the University of East Anglia’s new—and then-frowned-upon—creative writing course (05:04).
  • He quickly became the “star” of the small group, despite initial doubts about his talent.
  • “I was pleasantly surprised that the standard wasn’t that high… Before I went, yes, I didn’t know what to expect because I was a bit of an imposter. I hadn’t really written much fiction.” (05:39)

• Lingering Doubts Post-Nobel:

  • Even after winning the Nobel Prize, Ishiguro wrestles with deeper questions about the worth of literature in society, especially compared to scientific or medical breakthroughs (06:00).
  • “At some deeper level, I worry about the whole imposter thing, yes… Is what I do really that worthwhile? Does it merit something like a Nobel Prize alongside scientists?” (06:04)
  • He questions whether prioritizing emotional resonance in art might contribute to societal drift from truth toward subjectivity.

• Writing from an Outsider’s Perspective:

  • Ishiguro describes his consistent use of narrators who are outsiders—whether a robot (in Klara and the Sun), a butler (The Remains of the Day), or a clone (Never Let Me Go)—to help readers see the familiar in new ways (08:36).
  • “It felt oddly natural to me to be talking through a robot. I don’t know what that says.” (08:54)

• Relocation and Perspective:

  • Moving from Nagasaki to Guildford at age five was less jarring than it might seem; Ishiguro explains that at five, “everything was startling,” and he was learning alongside his peers (09:27).

2. The 'Crash' Writing Technique and Collaborative Creativity

• The Myth of the Four-Week Draft:

  • Ishiguro clarifies the so-called “crash” technique was simply a way to force completion of a rough draft via total immersion and cleared obligations, not the entirety of The Remains of the Day's creation (10:41).
  • “It was a bit weird, but yes, it was like before we had these concepts of virtual reality… I found myself entering a fictional world that seemed to be more real than the world outside.” (11:45)

• The Crucial Role of Family:

  • His wife, Lorna, is an “essential” creative collaborator—editor, critic, and idea-generator since before his writing career began (12:17).
  • “It’s almost second nature to me, you know, that she’s part of the team… She sometimes gives me the ideas to start with.” (13:06)
  • Now, his daughter—also a writer—offers notes and suggestions, adding another familial layer to the revision process (13:40).

3. Salman Rushdie on Survival and the Power of Language

• Why 'Knife'?

  • The title directly references the 2022 knife attack Rushdie survived, but also extends to the notion of language as a tool—a “knife” to open up, understand, and explain experience rather than to wound (14:37).
  • “I began to think of language and this book as being kind of my knife. Not in order to injure anybody, but in order to, as it were, cut things open and understand and explain them.” (14:56)

• Naming and Perspective:

  • Rushdie intentionally does not name his assailant to deny him notoriety—a conscious echo of Margaret Thatcher’s stance on not giving terrorists publicity (15:32).
  • “Let’s not give this guy the oxygen of publicity. It is one of the few moments in my life when I’ve been inspired by Margaret Thatcher.” (15:41)

• First vs. Third Person Memoir:

  • Knife is written in the first person, contrasting with his earlier memoir, Joseph Anton, which was written in third person to dramatize the distance between the ‘then-self’ and ‘now-self’ (16:24).
  • The immediacy and trauma of the recent event required an unmediated, personal voice: “There’s no way this can be written except in the first person… it’s a very kind of, very unguarded and kind of undefended book.” (17:11)

• Trauma, Memory, and Re-traumatization:

  • Rushdie discusses how recalling the attack does not re-traumatize him, as he distances himself by “talking about the book about the attack” (17:47).

• Detailed Recollection of the Attack:

  • He recounts the surreal normalcy of the setting (Chautauqua Institution, NY) and the attack's suddenness, noting an odd sense of inevitability—“Oh, it’s you. This has come at last.” (19:45)

• Pain, Trauma, and Recovery:

  • Rushdie notes the lack of remembered pain during the attack—possibly a shock response—contrasted with the excruciating memory of his eyelid being sutured during recovery (20:57; 21:43).
  • “There’s this curious disconnect between outside me and inside me. So I tried to write about that.” (21:21)

• Physical Vulnerability and Healing:

  • He reflects on connecting with his body’s physicality after the attack—observing its “miracle” ability to heal and regenerate, specifically citing his liver's recovery and significant weight loss (22:28).

Quotes & Notable Moments

Kazuo Ishiguro

• “At some deeper level, I worry about the whole imposter thing, yes… what is the purpose of writing novels and putting them out there? Is it that important?” (06:04)
• “It felt oddly natural to me to be talking through a robot. I don’t know what that says.” (08:54)
• On his wife’s influence: “She sometimes gives me the ideas to start with.” (13:06)

Salman Rushdie

• “I began to think of language and this book as being kind of my knife. Not in order to injure anybody, but in order to, as it were, cut things open and understand and explain them.” (14:56)
• “Let’s not give this guy the oxygen of publicity. It is one of the few moments in my life when I’ve been inspired by Margaret Thatcher.” (15:41)
• On writing Knife: “There’s no way this can be written except in the first person… it’s a very kind of, very unguarded and kind of undefended book.” (17:11)
• “There’s this curious disconnect between outside me and inside me. So I tried to write about that.” (21:21)
• “If you’re a novelist, you don’t really pay a lot of attention to your body. And this was such an intensely physical experience that it connected me… It showed me the kind of miracle of this thing we live in and its ability to heal.” (22:28)

Memorable Exchanges

• Elizabeth Day jokes about The Rushdie Diet after his significant weight loss:
  • Rushdie: “It’s like Jane Fonda’s workout book.” (23:20)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------| | 05:04 | Ishiguro on UEA course, imposter feelings | | 06:00 | Post-Nobel doubts about the value of writing | | 08:36 | Outsider viewpoints in Ishiguro’s work | | 10:41 | The truth behind 'the crash' writing technique | | 12:17 | Lorna Ishiguro’s vital role in Ishiguro’s creativity | | 13:40 | Family criticism and extended writing process | | 14:37 | Rushdie on the meaning of ‘Knife’ and language | | 15:32 | Refusal to name the assailant; Margaret Thatcher ref. | | 16:24 | Memoir: first vs. third person perspective | | 18:18 | Rushdie’s account of the attack | | 20:57 | Memory of pain/lack thereof during attack and after | | 22:28 | Rushdie on physical recovery and bodily awareness | | 23:17 | Humorous exchange about ‘The Rushdie Diet’ |

Conclusion

This episode offers a powerful meditation on vulnerability, resilience, and the meaning of creative work in turbulent times. Both Ishiguro and Rushdie illuminate how, even at the height of success, self-doubt and critical introspection persist. Their insights transcend the specifics of writing, resonating with anyone who has worked through adversity, questioned their path, or sought meaning in challenge.

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