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- [00:00]
Elizabeth Day
We at how to Fail were all so heartbroken to learn the news of Bonnie Tyler's passing. She came on how to fail in 2024 and lit up the studio with her warmth and her humour and her anecdotes. And she also left many of us in tears when she spoke about the passing of her mother and her experiences with miscarriage. It felt only fitting that in honor of her memory, we reissue this episode with with so much love for Bonnie Tyler and her family.
- [00:37]
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- [01:07]
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- [01:42]
Elizabeth Day
Last month, a total solar eclipse was cited across America as people rushed to put on their special spectacles to stare at the sun. An unexpected consequence was that a 1983 power ballad once again became number one across the United States. The song was Total Eclipse of the Heart and its singer, Bonnie Tyler, is my guest today. She was born Gaynor Hopkins in Wales, near Swansea. Her father was a coal miner who had fought in Dunkirk during World War II. She grew up in a council house and started singing in local clubs where she was spotted by a talent scout. Eventually she was offered a recording contract by RCA Records. The legendary Ronnie Scott was one of her managers. Her hit singles included It's a Heartache and holding out for a Hero, but it is Total Eclipse of the Heart, from her fifth album, for which she remains the most well known. It has sold almost 6 million copies to date and remains a firm karaoke favorite. Tyler has earned three Grammy and three Brit nominations during her illustrious career. She was one of the first Western singers to tour the then Soviet Union, and in 2013, British represented the UK in the Eurovision Song Contest. Nine years later, she was awarded an MBE for services to music and charities. These days she's still touring and last year released her memoir, Straight from the heart. Tyler turns 73 in June. Although you wouldn't know it, but she says she has absolutely no intention of slowing down. I class myself as a working class girl and I've never stopped working. I do an awful lot because I feel other people would love to be offered what I'm offered. Who am I to say no? Bonnie Tyler, welcome to how to Fail.
- [03:38]
Bonnie Tyler
I know, what a strange title that is for someone that's done so much.
- [03:44]
Elizabeth Day
Exactly. Well, we're going to flip the notion of failure on its head because ultimately it's all a learning exercise and you sit before me as this legendary success story. And I am so honored that you're here today because I understand it's your first ever PODC interview.
- [03:59]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, I've done thousands of interviews, but I. I've never actually heard them called podcasts before.
- [04:07]
Elizabeth Day
Well, I hope I will endeavour to make it a good experience.
- [04:09]
Bonnie Tyler
Right. Oh, great. Thank you, Elizabeth.
- [04:11]
Elizabeth Day
I wanted to start off talking about the importance of working to you. What does it mean to you to work?
- [04:17]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, everything. When I left school on the Friday, I was determined to get a job by the Monday and start earning money so I could go out and buy things for myself. Although it was a shop assistant, I got two jobs by the end of the day on the Friday after I left school. I had no qualifications, I was terrible in school. I got one O level and that's for cooking. God knows why. I think she felt sorry for me. So I was working right from when I was 17, but then when I was 17 and a half, I really. Cause I'd always been singing in my bedroom with a hairbrush, you know, and it was kind of like fate was tempting me to answer this advertisement that was in the local newspaper, you know, and I did. And actually that came after I entered a talent competition in the local rugby club. My auntie put my name down for it. But anyway, this advertisement said, looking for three girl singers to join Bobby Wayne and the Dixies. No experience needed. I thought, that's great, that's me. I'd never actually sang on a microphone before, you know, I'd always used a hairbrush in my room. So I went along to the audition. There was about 34 girls there. And I thought I got no chance here, you know, but I did. I became one of the Dixies, and I was with them for about 18 months and then formed my own band. And we were working six nights a week every week, you know, and we loved it. And this is why I call myself a working class girl, because I've always, always worked. And I've always thought, like you said in the beginning, people would love to have the opportunities I've had. And to say no seems morally wrong. You know, of course, I don't do everything that comes my way, but, you know, if it's right, I'll do it.
- [06:24]
Elizabeth Day
You've turned down quite a few celebrity reality TV shows, I understand.
- [06:28]
Bonnie Tyler
I turned them all down, I think.
- [06:31]
Elizabeth Day
Do you regret saying no to any of them?
- [06:33]
Bonnie Tyler
No, not at all. Go in the jungle. My God, I couldn't think of anything worse, you know, I tell you, they've offered me really good money to do that about five times. No chance. There's no point in ever asking me again, you know, because I'm never going to do it. And of course, Big Brother years ago asked me, no chance. I'm busy with my band anyway. My band have been with me for 35 years. Some of them, you know, I have an awesome band. And just the other night now, I visited someone, sold out shows in Europe, you know, and I've come home for this podcast.
- [07:11]
Elizabeth Day
Well, I'm again, very flattered. Let's talk about Total Eclipse. If you're. If you'll allow me to tell me where you shot the video, because it's also an iconic video as well as being an iconic song.
- [07:25]
Bonnie Tyler
Absolutely, yeah. And I was very lucky at the time that MTV had just started. So you can imagine how wonderful opportunity, what wonderful opportunity that was to. And I was on Heavy rotation. Sounds rude. That was on heavy rotation on mtv, you know, and the video was extremely, extremely hard to do. It took two days, and we were in an old asylum somewhere outside of London. It was freezing cold on that day. In fact, there was snow on the floor as well, and I had to run through it barefoot. But Jim Steinman wrote the most incredible storyboard. Couldn't understand it, but I did it. But it was an incredible video and it got nominated for a Grammy and I lost out to Michael Jackson for the best song. That's right. He won it. And I also got nominated with the video with him. Thriller won it and I. What company to be in.
- [08:34]
Elizabeth Day
Yeah, I know. I guess we can live with that. I guess we can Live with that. And I mentioned that it was a hit karaoke song and still is incredibly popular. Have you ever either performed at karaoke or walked into a karaoke booth where someone is singing it and murdering it?
- [08:52]
Bonnie Tyler
Obviously, many of them on YouTube that they'll send to me. You know, my friend and I were out last night and have a look at this video, you know, and it's like, oh, my God, they love it. You know, they just all get together. But, yes, I did actually do it once, years and years and years ago. We were at this party down in Swansea, some local pub somewhere, you know, and they had a karaoke night on and somebody put my name down, didn't they? Well, of course, I had to do it, otherwise I come over. I can write. So I actually did two total clips. To the Heart and holding out for a Hero, you know.
- [09:29]
Elizabeth Day
Oh, I wish I'd been there, Bonnie. What a night that must have been for those locals.
- [09:35]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, it was fun.
- [09:37]
Elizabeth Day
Tell me a bit about your voice, because you have this extraordinarily powerful voice and it's got a slight raspy quality to it, and I understand that that's not something you were born with. That's something that happened. How did it happen?
- [09:50]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, you know, I was singing for seven years before I got disc. I was singing locally for six nights a week, and that took a lot of wear and tear on my voice. And I developed nodules three times in my career. And they went away with rest twice before, but this time they just wouldn't go. They were persistent, you know, So I had to have surgery to have them removed. And after the operation, I was told to be quiet for a month.
- [10:27]
Elizabeth Day
Bonnie is actively rolling her eyes.
- [10:31]
Bonnie Tyler
Can you imagine me being quiet, you know, for. Anyway, I tried my best. I had a notepad and paper and a thing around me saying, I can't speak to you because I've just had a throat operation, you know. But in the end, I just found it too hard not to talk, so I stayed in. Well, of course, when I stayed in and I had to stay in for like, six. And I ate a lot, you know, I'd never had time off work. The only time I'd been off work in my life was after this operation. I had to be quiet, but I wasn't quiet enough. And it ended up with my going back to the consultant. And he said to me, what have we done? You've been singing, haven't you? You've been. I said, no. He said, you've been talking. I said, I couldn't help it. I couldn't help it. He said, well, you've done it now. You're gonna be like this now, probably forever. It wasn't so bad. I went into the studio and I went, it's a heartache. And they said, oh, my God, your voice has changed, you know, but we like it. And so it turned out to be a positive thing for me.
- [11:45]
Elizabeth Day
That's so great, and that's really at the heart of everything. This podcast is about something that might be perceived of as a failure. One minute actually turns into this unique selling point.
- [11:54]
Bonnie Tyler
Yeah, I had my number three in America, you know, everybody's dream is to make hits in America, you know, and I've done it a few times, but that wasn't the first time with It's a Heartache. Strangely enough, before I had a chance to get my version out, Juice Newton and Ronnie Spector had already copied and released it. But they never got played because they liked my raspiness, you know, and they played my version and it went racing up the charts, you know, to number three. Three or four in America.
- [12:31]
Elizabeth Day
Amazing. I mentioned in the introduction that you were born Gaynor and on stage you are Bonnie.
- [12:36]
Bonnie Tyler
Yeah.
- [12:36]
Elizabeth Day
Do you feel you have a split personality? Do you assume a role when you go on stage?
- [12:40]
Bonnie Tyler
Funny thing. Yes. I'm Bonnie on stage, full of it. And I'm Anti Gaynor. Gaynor at home, you know, and all my family call me Gaynor, of course. And my friends, before we get onto
- [12:52]
Elizabeth Day
your failures, I want to ask you what it was like touring the Soviet Union of the first Western artists to do so.
- [12:59]
Bonnie Tyler
I was one of the first girls. I think I was the first Western girl to perform there. And it was very, very strange, but beautiful in a way as well, because I had my own band, obviously. I had my crew, and we had a Polish crew there as well. And we took our own catering, thank God, because in them days, you had to que. For anything, you know, we had, I believe it was the KGB taking care of us. We were in all these massive halls, you know. It was a bit strange because there'd be a lady on every floor of the hotels we stayed, you know, it's a normal thing. It was a normal thing in Russia then. But they watch everything. They write everything down. Whoever goes to room, it's all written down, you know. But the audiences were loving it, you know, because they'd never had this before. But. But the strange thing is the first 20 rows or something like that was all soldiers, you know, and police. The audience had to Be very well behaved, you know. I mean, when you go to a concert, you want to go. Yeah. You know, and sing along. Do you know what I mean? Oh, in 1988, there was none of that then. You know, it completely changed then. I mean, I've been to Russia so many times. I've sang in the Kremlin three times.
- [14:28]
Elizabeth Day
Have you? Who for?
- [14:30]
Bonnie Tyler
Putin. I know.
- [14:32]
Elizabeth Day
What was that like?
- [14:33]
Bonnie Tyler
He was in the front row at one time.
- [14:36]
Elizabeth Day
Was he dancing? Please tell me.
- [14:38]
Bonnie Tyler
No, he had a face down to his feet. The image.
- [14:42]
Elizabeth Day
I sort of want him to be, like, mouthing the words to Total Eclipse of the Heart.
- [14:45]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, he was there because it was. I think this particular thing was like a charity for younger entertainers. Getting into it. Obviously, that's not gonna happen anymore, which is a great shame, because it had turned completely different to what the first time I went there, and then when I went back, I couldn't believe it. Like, designer stores everywhere, you know, didn't have to queue for anything. I mean, we took our own catering. We had articulated lorries full of stuff, you know, that we'd taken over and playing. I don't know how the hell they managed it. I even took my sunbed over there. Can you believe it?
- [15:26]
Elizabeth Day
Did you?
- [15:28]
Bonnie Tyler
No wonder my skin is frothy. Thank God. I never did my face, though. I always covered my face with a. With a towel because I'd never looked good with a tan face, so. But my body was always brown. Now I'm paying for it, you know, because my. My skin on my arms and my legs and whatever. Oh, God. But, well, you look great. My face is all right.
- [15:51]
Elizabeth Day
Yeah, your face looks fabulous. Okay, so your first failure is elocution lessons?
- [15:58]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, yes.
- [15:59]
Elizabeth Day
How old were you when you started having elocution lessons?
- [16:02]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, I'd already started singing, and I was working, like, six nights a week in a nightclub. And I used to be frightened about talking in between songs, you know. I mean, I tell stories now in between every song, you know, and I go on and on. But then I was really nervous about talking, you know, and so the owner of the club where I worked, his daughter had been going to elocution lessons. And she spoke very nicely, you know, And I said to her mother, where does she go for an elocution lesson? So she told me, Mr. Vegana Powell. So I said, can you give me a crash course in elocution lessons? Well, that didn't last very long. I said, I better leave you before you end up talking me.
- [17:00]
Elizabeth Day
So were you going because you wanted to Diminish your Welsh accent.
- [17:03]
Bonnie Tyler
Yes.
- [17:03]
Elizabeth Day
Okay.
- [17:04]
Bonnie Tyler
I wanted to calm it down a bit, but I got no chance. I'm all over the world working. Right. But there's no way I'm gonna get rid of my Welsh accent. I can't do anything about it. It's a bit like Tom Jones, I suppose. Look at him. He lived in America since God knows when until recently, and he's still got his Welsh.
- [17:25]
Elizabeth Day
I just imagine that all Welsh celebrities know each other. So do you know Tom. Do you know Catherine Zeta Jones and Tom Jones?
- [17:31]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, Catherine Zeta Jones is my husband's second cousin, so her father is Robbie's cousin. And I actually sang in Their Wedding in New York. But Tom Jones, yes. I've worked with him a few times. In 1979, I think it was, when I had It's Heartache, a huge hit in America. I told. I did three sh with him, supporting him as if he needs any support. He doesn't need anybody to support him, but his manager knew my manager, and so I was on the bill, you know, and it was incredible. He was incredible, and he still is. Yeah. And we all went out for dinner every night after the show. It was fabulous. But no, I don't have his telephone number. I can't call him a friend as such, you know, because I don't. We're not in touch. But, you know, the last time I saw him was at. We were doing a charity show together with lots of other artists in the O2 in 2020, just before the lockdown came. That was the only other time I hadn't worked it throughout my life during lockdown, you know, but he was very nice. I got a lot of time for him. And he's still awesome. His voice is as strong as ever.
- [18:50]
Elizabeth Day
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- [21:35]
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- [22:05]
Elizabeth Day
I'm very interested in this idea of Welshness and your Welsh heritage though, and I would love to talk about your parents, who sound amazing. Tell us about your mum and your dad. Your dad was this World War II veteran. Yes, and very affected by what he'd witnessed.
- [22:21]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, he saw my uncle and his brains shot out, you know what I mean? Sometimes. Occasionally, when he'd come home and he'd had a few Drinks. He'd be like crying and saying about Uncle Frank, you know, and, you know, the things they went through. Can you imagine? You can't imagine, can you, being in Dunkirk. And my other uncle was there as well, my uncle Ernie, and he had terrible problems afterwards psychologically, but my father didn't have it that bad. It's just memories coming back to him and in drink and he'd be like, there's a word for it now, isn't there? Post traumatic, post traumatic stress or something. But no, they just had to get on and deal with life, didn't they? He was only a miner for a very short time when he was a young man, but he was working as a fitter and turner in the oil works in the bp. And when he was young as well, he used to be a very good boxer. You never think so mine, because he was so beautiful. He was absolutely gorgeous. But I have got his blue eyes.
- [23:31]
Elizabeth Day
You do have amazing blue eyes.
- [23:33]
Bonnie Tyler
My daddies.
- [23:34]
Elizabeth Day
And was it a happy childhood?
- [23:36]
Bonnie Tyler
Yes, it was very happy. We didn't have any material things as such, but nobody did in them days, you know what I mean? I was born in 1951, and when you think of it, that's not long after the war, is it? You know. But my pride and joy was my bike, you know, I love my bike. I used to go everywhere on my bike. Growing up in a big family, three sisters, two brothers, there wasn't a lot of hardly any money around, just enough to get through, you know what I mean? The pantry was basically what was in the garden.
- [24:11]
Elizabeth Day
You say you have three sisters and two brothers? Yeah, there was another sister.
- [24:16]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, yes, Pauline. Yeah. Pauline was stillborn. My mother never ever got over Pauline dying, you know, she was full term, you know, nine months. I can't do. You know, the thing is, see, when you're young and you're told that you would have had another sister but she was still born, it doesn't sink in what actually. My mother actually must have gone through carrying a baby for all those nine months and then nothing at the end of it. It must have been traumatic. But she never really showed us her pain. But it must have been terrible for her. But she never did get over it, mind. She always, whenever people said, how many children do you have? And she always counted Pauline, you know, and actually in 2020, my brother, my eldest brother died. Lynn, he was so proud. He was, you know, he was wonderful and he wasn't ready to go. He was enjoying his life, you know, he loved life, he loved his kids. He loved his grandkids and he just. In his sleep. I'm sorry.
- [25:32]
Christy from Lululemon
And now.
- [25:33]
Bonnie Tyler
It was awful shock. Awful shock. Anyway, sorry.
- [25:39]
Elizabeth Day
I'm so sorry.
- [25:40]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, well, you know, he had a wonderful life, and I know he's in a good place, but it was a terrible shock.
- [25:49]
Elizabeth Day
Yes. And so you could relate, presumably, even more to what your mother must have been through. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:56]
Bonnie Tyler
You know, because.
- [25:59]
Elizabeth Day
Yeah.
- [26:00]
Bonnie Tyler
At least he's with my mother and father now, and Pauline and, you know.
- [26:06]
Elizabeth Day
Will you tell me the story of the Father Christmas napkin?
- [26:10]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, right. Oh, God.
- [26:12]
PayPal Advertiser
Which.
- [26:12]
Elizabeth Day
I'm sorry. I read it and it was so beautiful.
- [26:16]
Bonnie Tyler
But my mother, she died of Alzheimer's, bless her. And shortly before she.
- [26:29]
Elizabeth Day
We don't have to talk about it.
- [26:31]
Bonnie Tyler
I'd be all right now.
- [26:32]
Elizabeth Day
Okay.
- [26:34]
Bonnie Tyler
Shortly before she, you know, got really bad with Alzheimer's, she was at my house and it was near Christmas, I suppose, because I had these placemats on the table that they had, like, a Father Christmas on them and, like a pocket where you put the napkin in, and it was very Christmassy, you know, and she folded it up into a. All. All the way into, like, a little triangle. It was a linen placemat that you put over a placemat, you know, and she folded it up into, like, little triangular. And she gave it to me in my hand, and she said, when I
- [27:24]
Ollie Sleep Advertiser
go,
- [27:28]
Bonnie Tyler
please put this in my coffin. Right. I said, mom, don't talk like that, you know, I want you to put it in my coffin, she said, because I want to give Pauline something when I get there. She said, oh, God. Anyway, so she. I did it along with us all, putting little things in coffin, you know, photographs, letters, as you do, you know. But she wanted me to do that, so I did it. And I still got one. You had a tear as well. I've still got one in my house. Thank you.
- [28:21]
Elizabeth Day
I'm so sorry.
- [28:21]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, my gosh. Oh, I had the best mother in the world, though. I know we all say we got the best mother, but I did.
- [28:28]
Elizabeth Day
Yeah.
- [28:29]
Bonnie Tyler
She was an angel. In fact, when I had my boat, I had a 50 foot. What do you call it? Princess boat. And it was for my 50th birthday, but just before my 50th, my mother died. So I said to Robert, forget about the boat. I don't want it. Nothing after your mother, you know. Yeah, nothing mattered. And anyway, I had it the following year, and my father was still alive then. He was alive for 18 months after my mother, that. So the boat was being built down in Plymouth. So before we took it over to Portugal where we have a house there. We said, daddy, come in and have a look at the boat, you know. And so we took him down to Plymouth and he kissed the side of the boat, you know, and we took him out for a spin in it, you know, it was. It had a fly bridge and everything, you know. It was a fabulous boat with three bedrooms and Daddy absolutely loved the boat, but I said to him, dad, I want to name it after Mammy, but I don't want to call it Elsie, you know. Straight away he said, there was an angel in the harbor, you know. He pointed at the angel and he said, call it Angel. He said, you mother was an angel. And so we called it Angel. Yeah, so I had that boat for about 21 years. We had wonderful times on there and all the family and everything, you know, great holidays with friends and family. And I sold it last year because I found that I wasn't going out in it so much, you know.
- [30:23]
Elizabeth Day
I cannot thank you enough for sharing that.
- [30:27]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, I'd love everybody to know, actually what a wonderful person my mother was and my father, you know.
- [30:34]
Elizabeth Day
Yeah, I think you have paid great tribute to them with that. Thank you. And what a testament you are to them, too.
- [30:41]
Bonnie Tyler
She always brought us up, all of us, to believe in ourselves, you know, it's strange because she was such a gentle person, right? And of course, with six children or seven, Mam you would have said. She was working so hard in the house, keeping the house clean and washing and ironing and we would tear terrible mind. We weren't any help at all. Looking back now, I think, God, you know, about the only thing I did do was like, tidy my bedroom now and then, you know, And I can't remember ever learning to cook or anything like that, you know, My mother was too busy doing it for us all, you know, she brought us all up to believe in ourselves, even though she was a housewife, you know, and she was doing everything. A housewife's job is so hard. Anyway, she didn't have chance to do anything else even if she wanted to. But she had the most incredible opera voice, but she only did it in the house, you know, people used to stand outside of my house just to listen to my mother sing an opera, you know.
- [31:51]
Elizabeth Day
That's amazing.
- [31:52]
Bonnie Tyler
Yeah, fabulous. I mean, there was all kinds of music in my house because all the generations, different generations, you know, there. My eldest sister was into, like, Frank Sinatra, my brother Lynn, love him, he loved Elvis Presley, Eddie Cochran and all that, you know. And then There was Angela, the Beatles, and, you know, all the 60s bands. And she gave me my first album, Hard Day's Night. I know every single word of it of the whole album. And I got to meet Paul McCartney in the end. Oh, wow.
- [32:25]
Elizabeth Day
That was amazing.
- [32:27]
Bonnie Tyler
But, yeah, funny that my gave us all so less to be confident, and yet she was very, very low key herself, you know.
- [32:37]
Elizabeth Day
So you were all into music and you were all into singing. So why do you think you're the one who became Fate?
- [32:44]
Bonnie Tyler
I think.
- [32:44]
Elizabeth Day
Do you think it's fate?
- [32:45]
Bonnie Tyler
I really do think. And not only that, I heard somebody saying the other day something, and I thought, yeah, that's really good. That is. Fate comes your way, but be ready for it and bite its hand off.
- [32:58]
Elizabeth Day
Yes. Yes. Oh, Bonnie, thank you so much for telling us about your family, your wonderful, wonderful family. So you had this innate talent for singing. You become a superstar, and then we come onto your second failure. Now this failure, I couldn't believe it. It's such a good one again, because it goes to the heart of everything that we're talking about. Simply the best.
- [33:23]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, yeah.
- [33:24]
Elizabeth Day
Which is actually called the best, which I didn't know until I read your failure. People misquote it all the time. So what happened with the best?
- [33:31]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, in 1988, I was recording an album with Desmond Child in Woodstock, actually, in Janis Joplin's old studio.
- [33:39]
Elizabeth Day
Right, can we just pause that sentence? That sentence is one of the most iconic sentences I think has ever been uttered in this studio. Okay, carry on.
- [33:47]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, of course, Janice had died in 1969, but I was working in this studio that she used to work in that her and her manager owned. I was doing an album, a very budgeted album. You know, like after Total Eclipse of the Heart and Secret Dreams and Forbidden Fire with the late, great Jim Steinman, the record company had forked out fortunes for them, you know what I mean? But for this next album, Desmond was given a meager kind of. Of budget to work for the whole album. They only paid him, really enough for seven songs. But we ended up doing. I think it was 14 or 15, and this song, simply the best I recorded then. And it was not played. You know, nobody played my version of it. And then two years later, Tina Turner released it, and it was a massive hit. You know, I always do a tribute to Tina in my show, you know, because when I was young, I was always in my bedroom with, you know, playing Ike and Tina Turner songs. Tina Turner, Janis Joplin, Wilson Pickett, you know, big voices. I Loved. You know, I do a tribute to Tina and I do that song. And I used to say I did it two years before Tina. But it doesn't seem right to say that now. Cause she's such a legend. That she was such an inspiration for all of us girl singers, you know. She was incredible. Absolutely the best. Simply the best. So I just say I'm gonna do a tour boot. I don't even say anymore now that I recorded it two years before, you know.
- [35:33]
Elizabeth Day
And what do you think happened there? Why do you think it was successful when she sang it? Is that about subjectivity of taste? Is it about the time being right?
- [35:42]
Bonnie Tyler
I think it was the time where they weren't playing certain people over an age. And yet they played Tina Turner. She's older than me. She was. But, you know, they didn't play my records anyway. And it turned out to be one of quite a successful album, actually. In fact, there are three or four songs on that album that I recorded before other artists. I did Save up all your tears before shared it.
- [36:11]
Elizabeth Day
Wow.
- [36:11]
Bonnie Tyler
I did To Love Somebody, the old bridge song. I did that before Jimmy Sunraville had a number one with it. And Don't Turn Around Aswad had a number one with it that Diane Warren wrote. I did that. And nobody played my versions of it. You know, I'm simply the best. Yeah. But the album is. It's a great album. And Desmond Child is a awesome producer as well.
- [36:37]
Elizabeth Day
You know, the Tina Turner thing is very interesting because hearing you talk about it, you're so supportive of other artists and particularly other women. Was there ever a point where you felt a bit resentful? Hang on a second. This was my song.
- [36:51]
Bonnie Tyler
No, no. It actually gave me my confidence back in my choice of material. Because I thought. I was sure that was a good song. Then it went to number one for Tina Turner. I gotta say, my. My mother, bless her, she said it's not fair. See, you did that song before Tina Turner, and it didn't play us.
- [37:16]
Elizabeth Day
But you never felt that.
- [37:18]
Bonnie Tyler
No, not really. You know, I mean, of course I was disappointed, but, you know, I love Tina Turner. I was so lucky. I met her a couple of times. Yeah.
- [37:27]
Elizabeth Day
What was she like?
- [37:28]
Bonnie Tyler
Fabulous. She even asked for my autograph. She. She gave me her autograph. Course I asked her. Then when she asked me and when I walked into the studio, this was before. She was huge. After she left Ike and she was trying to get back. And it was before that, big what's Love got to do with It? You know, and she was Singing a song called the Black Widow, I'm sure what it was called. And she was on a TV show with me in Germany and she saw me walking in. Cause I'd heard Tina Turner was on the same show. So I wanted to see her rehearsing. So I walked into the studio to watch her and she saw me coming in and she went, it's Bonnie Tyler.
- [38:13]
Elizabeth Day
Oh my goodness.
- [38:15]
Bonnie Tyler
Yeah, I was chuffed. And another time then I was doing the Terry Wogan chat show and she mind, I'm telling you too much now.
- [38:27]
Elizabeth Day
No such thing. What happened with Terry Wogan? Can you not tell me?
- [38:31]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, it was a change of clothes that we. Because I came out of my dressing room and Tina came out of her dressing room and she went, uh, oh, one of us has got to change. And I said, well, I hope it's you because I haven't got anything else with me.
- [38:49]
Elizabeth Day
Were you wearing the same thing?
- [38:51]
Bonnie Tyler
Very similar. Red leather miniskirt and a red leather jacket. And she had a red leather dress on. She looked absolutely amazing with them legs, you know what I mean? But fair enough. She had things to change into. I didn't. And she changed. Wow. But we both had black fishnet stockings as well, you know, and black shoes and it was really, really strange.
- [39:19]
Elizabeth Day
Yeah, it's like you're connected. Twins.
- [39:27]
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- [40:01]
Bonnie Tyler
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- [40:06]
Bonnie Tyler
They are so essential.
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- [40:10]
Bonnie Tyler
Are you more of a geranium or lavender fan?
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- [40:57]
Elizabeth Day
The music industry is famous, or perhaps infamous for being quite unstable, demanding. But you have had one great source of stability throughout your entire career, which is your husband. Robert.
- [41:11]
Bonnie Tyler
Yes.
- [41:11]
Elizabeth Day
How long have you two been together?
- [41:13]
Bonnie Tyler
We were married for 50 years last year.
- [41:16]
Elizabeth Day
Congratulations.
- [41:17]
Bonnie Tyler
51 this July. Yeah.
- [41:19]
Elizabeth Day
What do you think the secret is to a long lasting marriage?
- [41:22]
Bonnie Tyler
When we travel together, I think, you know, when you're together all the time, it's a good thing.
- [41:29]
Elizabeth Day
Now you don't have children and neither do I. Yeah. And that's why I'm very passionate about asking women who don't have children how they have navigated their life.
- [41:40]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, I left it too late, to be honest, to get pregnant. Cause when I did get pregnant when I was 39, it didn't last very long, a couple of months, you know, and I had a miscarriage. Yeah. I didn't dwell on it though, you know, because what's to be will be, you know. I always had a feeling, though, that it was a boy. I don't know why, but it's in my mind that I would have had a boy, you know. Yeah, yeah, we had a miscarriage. But I've got so many nieces and nephews and one of them lives with me and his partner, John. Chris. Christopher and John. They'll be there now when I go home. I've got 16 nieces and nephews and I see a lot of them, you know, we're a very close family, you know, and we got another one on the way. Chloe's pregnant now and she's. She's due next week.
- [42:31]
Elizabeth Day
Oh, that's so lovely.
- [42:32]
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- [42:33]
Bonnie Tyler
And the strange thing is, right, me and Chloe, we like clones, you know, she looks like me. She, you know, of course she's only in her 20s, but when I was her age, we were like twins, you know what I mean? Very often I used to say to her, darling, don't leave it too late now because she got married a couple of years ago. Don't leave it too late like I did, you know, because you may regret it, you know. I said we left it a little bit too late. And, you know, we had miscarriage when I was 39. And I think she must have taken it in because she's got a baby girl coming and I'm hoping to see her next week.
- [43:14]
Elizabeth Day
That's beautiful. Thank you so much for talking about that. I'm someone who doesn't have children and I've also had miscarriages have you, have
- [43:24]
Bonnie Tyler
you had a couple of.
- [43:24]
Elizabeth Day
Yeah, I've had three.
- [43:25]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, dear God.
- [43:26]
Elizabeth Day
But so I understand a little of what that is like. And I also. Although none of them was as late as your mother's and actually even.
- [43:37]
Bonnie Tyler
Thank God.
- [43:38]
Elizabeth Day
Thank God, even the term miscarriage for what your mother went through is not appropriate. But I can understand a little of the grief because really you're grieving in something that never happened. You're grieving an absence as well as a presence. And it's very powerful when women like you share your stories.
- [43:54]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, what I did, I wrote all my feelings down in a book. Right. Not in a book to sell. Yes, in a something, you know, and I, I've put it at the back of the cupboard somewhere.
- [44:10]
Elizabeth Day
I think that's so wise because actually you need it. Well, you will know that as a songwriter yourself, you need to put your feelings onto the page or somewhere so that they no longer eat you up from the inside.
- [44:22]
Bonnie Tyler
Yeah, I think it helps to write it down. Write down your feelings. And actually I'm not, I'm not a great songwriter. I'm very lucky that I work with incredible songwriters. I have, have written songs and my brother is a, a rock singer, you know, in a band called Sunshine Cabin Core. And they work in like regularly, every week still. And he's like, he's my little brother. Right. But I, he's, he's 60. Anyway, he, I, I used to write some songs with him, you know, and, and a couple of other people, but I've never had a hit with my own song songs. You know what I mean?
- [45:01]
Elizabeth Day
How do you feel being in your 70s? I mean, you look like you're in your 30s, but how does it feel?
- [45:06]
Bonnie Tyler
I don't look like I'm in 30, but I, I, you know, I did have a knee operation before Christmas. I had an old skiing injury, crack my meniscus bone and it gave me drip all these years later. I had this when I was in my 30s, but I had to have an operation. But anyway, the, this, the surgeon said it's going to take six weeks. I said I haven't got six weeks, I got two weeks. I'll be on that plane in two weeks. Nonetheless, I say so he said I was.
- [45:40]
Elizabeth Day
I feel. Yet you have a history of defying surgeons advice, which your third and final failure, in your words, I'm not too good at getting rid of things. So are you a hoarder?
- [45:54]
Bonnie Tyler
No. My dress room at home and in Portugal is just rammed, jammed. You know, I do have a clear out now and then and give it to my nieces, you know. But I'm due for another one now. All the cabinets are awful, all the wardrobes, and I got all around the whole huge room, and I've got rails everywhere, you know, I got to wade through the rails, you know. But mostly I wear jackets and trousers. And I don't hoard. I'm not a hoarder, as you see these on the television, you know, and my kitchen cupboards. I think we've all got every gadget that's ever gone. My latest is the. Is the air fryer. Oh, you actually like that?
- [46:40]
Elizabeth Day
Yeah, they sound brilliant.
- [46:42]
Bonnie Tyler
And I have a. Oh, a thermostat.
- [46:45]
Elizabeth Day
A Thermomix.
- [46:46]
Bonnie Tyler
Thermomix.
- [46:46]
Elizabeth Day
My parents are obsessed with those. Thermomix.
- [46:48]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, brilliant. We got one in Portugal. Anatomia.
- [46:53]
Elizabeth Day
So the clothes, do you hold onto them because. Because they are full of memories.
- [46:57]
Bonnie Tyler
Well, some of them. I actually have got a big trunk in my attic from Bobby Wayne and the Dixies days. Right. Well, you would never believe the size that I used to be. I used to be probably what you would call a size six. Now I'm a size 14. Now I'm a 16 jacket. I was always tiny, tiny like Chloe even now she's only got the baby bump, you know. And Chloe, my niece, who's having a baby next week, I have a trunk with clothes from them days because it's like. It is memories, you know. And my hot pants, you know, they were about this big, you know, I'm doing this on a podcast, so what
- [47:43]
Elizabeth Day
do you fear would happen if you let all of that go?
- [47:46]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, I probably should. It's ridiculous. I don't know when I even looked in that trunk last. Must be 20 years or something. You know, they probably. I don't know if they can get through a metal trunk. I don't know. It's probably Mothra.
- [48:03]
Elizabeth Day
I feel that there's something so beautiful about you, which is how rooted you are, how grounded you are in spite of all the incredible success and legendary status you've achieved. And maybe you understand the profound importance of staying true to your past. And maybe that's what it's about.
- [48:22]
Bonnie Tyler
I wonder. I am down to earth and everybody tells me, oh, the funny thing is, before I came here, there was two guys at the hotel, you know, and they walked in and they saw me and my husband, and one of the young boys said to me, well, said to us, gosh, you look so well dressed. And so. You look like celebrities. So anyway, we were still waiting for our taxi to come. Right. And we were waiting for a while and he said, well, what do you do? And I said, actually, and I told him, you know, I said, I'm Bonnie Tyler. And he was a very young boy, he must have been about 21, something like that. And his mate was same, he had his laptop with him. He googled it straight away. And he said, my God, you got 4 million people on. What do you call it? You know, and, yeah, I don't normally do that. You know, I don't say, well, actually, I'm Bonnie Tyler, like. And. And he said, but what's your husband do? I said, well, he's an Olympian. He went to the Olympics in 1972 way before you.
- [49:34]
Elizabeth Day
Champion, right?
- [49:34]
Bonnie Tyler
Judo. Yeah. He's a third down black belt, you know.
- [49:37]
Elizabeth Day
That's extraordinary.
- [49:38]
Bonnie Tyler
Yeah. And the thing is, in them days, Olympians weren't paid anything, you know, he had to work and train, he had, like, no money. We got together and everything, and in the end, very successful. We had clubs and things, you know,
- [50:00]
Elizabeth Day
and very successful personally too, as a unit. Yes, 50 years. So congratulations on that.
- [50:06]
Bonnie Tyler
Thank you.
- [50:08]
Elizabeth Day
Oh, Bonnie Tyler, I can't tell you how much I've loved this conversation. I. I would love to draw this part to a close by asking you what you think your parents would say to you. They must have been so proud of you.
- [50:22]
Bonnie Tyler
I think they'd say, my mother said to me, you know, keep the family like this. She said, right, yes, keep the family like this. And we are. And I think she'd say, say doing a great job of all of you, sticking together, all of you, being the family you are, you know, and it's because of my mother and my father, you know. Well, I was crying again.
- [50:51]
Elizabeth Day
I'm so sorry. I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna stop now. But I'm so excited for you to meet your newest niece.
- [50:57]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, and I am. I don't know what they're gonna call her.
- [51:01]
Elizabeth Day
I mean, Bonnie's a great name.
- [51:03]
Bonnie Tyler
Oh, and you know Chloe, right, who's having the baby. Her second name is Gabriel. Yeah, her sister named her after me. You know, my sister Avis, who's also a brilliant singer, by the way, but she sings for the church and charities and things, you know.
- [51:19]
Elizabeth Day
Lovely. Well, I think being an aunt is a beautiful role to inhabit, and I
- [51:23]
Bonnie Tyler
think I'm a good auntie.
- [51:24]
Elizabeth Day
I can tell you're a good auntie. I want you to be mine. So we need to talk after this, but Bonnie Tyler, I cannot. Thank you enough for gracing me.
- [51:33]
Bonnie Tyler
I really enjoyed it, Elizabeth, thank you so much.
- [51:35]
Elizabeth Day
I've loved it. Thank you. So.
- [51:42]
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