Robin Wright on ageing, confidence and the myth of being ‘too late’

Summary

How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Episode: Robin Wright on Ageing, Confidence, and the Myth of Being ‘Too Late’

Release Date: September 10, 2025
Host: Elizabeth Day
Guest: Robin Wright

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Episode Overview

In this rich and candid episode, Elizabeth Day sits down with award-winning actress, director, and producer Robin Wright. The conversation delves into Robin’s personal and professional journeys through failure, confidence, age, and the evolving landscape for women in Hollywood. Through the three "failures" she’s chosen to discuss, Robin shares profound insights on the value of taking risks, overcoming self-doubt, directing as a woman later in life, and her hopes for the next generation facing a fast-changing and often hostile world.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Learning from Failure and Building Confidence

• Early Self-Doubt and Missed Opportunities

  • Robin recounts turning down significant roles in her twenties due to a lack of self-confidence, despite her experience on the soap "Santa Barbara."
  • “I didn’t think I had that confidence, so I turned those roles down. And the ladies that did those roles were amazing. I wasn’t ready.” (13:27)

• Acting as a Physical Craft

  • Robin highlights the foundational impact of dance and the essential physicality she brings to her acting.
  • “It's pretty much my foundation. And I think it comes from being a dancer at a very young age... All of that, to me, is a dance.” (08:21)

• Advice to Younger Actors

  • She stresses the importance of experience, risk-taking, and failing in front of the camera:
  • “You learn from your mistakes. And to be instilling that and imbuing that to other young actors, that’s what makes me feel great as a director.” (04:54)

2. Motherhood and the Complexity of ‘Having It All’

• Choosing Family Over Career

  • Robin talks about her deliberate choices to prioritize her children over career during their formative years, navigating the challenges of travel and work-life balance in Hollywood.
  • “No, it was that I wanted to be a mom... I didn’t think that was fair to them to not be there to raise it. So I just worked in the summers when they were off school.” (22:18)

• Evolution for Working Parents

  • She recognizes that accommodations for working mothers in the industry have improved in the last decade.
  • “It’s a talent to be a mom. It’s, you know, it’s a skill. So to have that kind of support is amazing.” (24:34)

• Role of Motherhood in Her Work

  • Playing complex mothers on screen, such as in "The Girlfriend," forces her to examine and talk with her own children about boundaries and over-protection:
  • “So we’re going to have to wait and see [if my son thinks I’m overly protective].” (10:54)

3. The Fear of Fading and Ageism in Hollywood

• Fear of Not Being ‘Good Enough’—Directing Later In Life

  • Robin candidly discusses her insecurity about directing, despite years of industry experience, feeling she started ‘late’ and comparing herself to established (mainly male) directors.
  • “I haven’t done it enough and I hope to do more of it, to learn more and become better.” (39:53)

• Addressing Ageist Myths

  • Robin powerfully refutes the idea that it’s ever "too late" to change direction or start something new, especially for women:
  • “Too old to do what? I’m sorry. Do you have the stamina, the energy? ... It’s never too late if you have the desire.” (42:11)

• Self-Perception and Age

  • She views turning 60 as unimportant—a number rather than a limitation:
  • “It’s a number. I have more wrinkles. That happens. I don’t feel... I still feel like I’m in my early 30s, mid-30s.” (42:53)

4. Gender Dynamics, Class, and Power

• Navigating Class Differences

  • Having lived in both the US and UK, Robin brings a unique perspective on class and its impact on relationships, as explored in her recent show.
  • “Here I feel like it’s part of the national fabric, the class system, compartmentalization … And that’s what Cherry’s doing is she’s trying to fit in, but she’s basically saying, ‘this isn’t who I am.’” (11:55)

• Misogyny and Power Imbalances

  • Robin vulnerably shares a traumatic experience with a misogynistic director, highlighting the power abuses still prevalent in the industry and the lasting scars they leave.
  • “He yelled at me and said, ‘Speak.’ And I got up out of the trailer and I ran … Those are the things you end up spending tens of thousands of dollars worth of therapy … to get over it.” (45:24, 48:29)

• On Female Directorial Solidarity

  • She discusses the “pressure” of representing women in directing, recognizing society’s ingrained gender hierarchies:
  • “Men have always been the elevated gender. They just have … I just want it to become an ebb and flow. Let me grow.” (43:59)

5. Truth, Curiosity, and the Freedom of Admitting ‘I Don’t Know’

• Robin traces her inquisitiveness back to academic insecurities as a child and stresses the liberation in admitting ignorance and asking questions.

• “That is the power. And once you own the freedom and the want to say, ‘I don’t know what that means…’ What a liberating thing. Because it’s truth.” (28:00)

• Ram Dass Anecdote—Loving and Telling Truth

  • Robin recalls a story from Ram Dass about the challenge of loving everyone and the importance of telling the truth, linking it with authenticity and self-acceptance.
  • “You can love. They might get angry when you tell the truth, but you’re still loving them.” (29:33)

6. Peacekeeping, Childhood, and Emotional Labor

• The legacy of divorce and playing the family “peacekeeper” shaped her avoidant stance on confrontation, influencing her director’s approach.

• “I was the person in the room where I wanted to keep everything calm. Didn’t like confrontation...” (30:19)

• Connection to Claire Underwood (House of Cards)

  • Playing the powerful, unflinching Claire Underwood was both liberating and instructive:
  • “It allowed me to feel what it would be like to have that kind of strength and power where you’re not concerned with what anybody else thinks, because that’s your truth.” (34:31)

7. On the Youth of Today and Hope for the Future

• Robin’s “final failure” is the fear of not guiding or influencing the younger generation to resist the corrosive influences of modern media and deception.
• “I feel I would be a failure if... I don’t have some kind of influence, advice, guidance that I can give to the youth of today of how to grow up in this very destructive state of the world that we’re living in.” (48:56)
• She advocates for truth-telling, activism, and refusing to be controlled.
• “Let’s talk the truth. Because ... that is loving ... In a perfect world, we wouldn’t have war if we could do that.” (50:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Experience and Growth:
  “We all learned through that experience of making mistakes, failing, looking bad, and then rectifying it on your own...” – Robin Wright (04:54)

• On Starting Late:
  “This was the first opportunity I had, you know, at late 50s, just started directing in my mid-40s, you know, like this is late start and I’m so thrilled…” – Robin Wright (41:06)

• On Truth and Liberation:
  “That is the power. And once you own the freedom and the want to say, ‘I don’t know what that means…’ What a liberating thing. Because it’s truth.” – Robin Wright (28:00)

• On Women in Directing:
  “I just want it to become an ebb and flow. Let me grow.” – Robin Wright (43:59)

• On Emotional Range as an Actor:
  “What is still really difficult to do, is to go from being like this, and then somebody walks in the door … and they're like, your husband just died. ... It's that flip of a switch that's so quick. But you have to give the preamble a little bit of time to rise.” – Robin Wright (16:50)

• On Youth and the Future:
  “I feel I would be a failure if ... I don’t have some kind of influence, advice, guidance that I can give to the youth of today ... I just would love to ... help the youth. Say I call bullshit on that. And I’m gonna stand up. You’re not gonna control my life in that way.” – Robin Wright (48:56)

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Important Timestamps

• Opening reflections on failure and confidence: 00:00–05:43
• Physicality and approach to acting: 08:21–09:02
• Motherhood, career balance, and class: 10:01–13:14
• Fear of fading and self-doubt in early career: 13:14–16:03
• On switching emotional gears in acting: 16:32–18:23
• Reuniting with old collaborators (Forrest Gump, Here): 18:49–19:49
• Motherhood & working parent logistics: 22:00–24:34
• Origins of fear of failure and academic insecurities: 25:15–28:00
• Truth, curiosity, and the Ram Dass anecdote: 28:00–29:33
• Peacekeeping as a child of divorce: 30:19–33:20
• Playing powerful characters, Claire Underwood: 34:13–35:13
• Directing fears and entry into directorial work: 35:31–41:38
• Myth of being 'too late' and ageism: 42:11–43:30
• On competing, inequality, and industry gender norms: 43:59–45:02
• Worst experience with a director: 45:02–48:29
• Final reflections: hopes for the next generation: 48:56–51:19

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Conclusion

This episode offers a masterclass in resilience, authenticity, and the ongoing challenge to embrace failure as a teacher, not a curse. Robin’s honesty about insecurity, her resistance to the idea of being "too late," and her calls for truth and connection are resonant for listeners of all ages. Throughout, Elizabeth Day’s empathetic questioning draws out stories that are funny, poignant, and ultimately inspiring—a testament to both women’s commitment to learning and sharing wisdom gained through imperfection.

Transcript

[Robin Wright]

I didn't think I had that confidence so I turned those roles down.

[Elizabeth Day]

What is your worst experience of another director? And you don't have to name names or anything.

[Robin Wright]

Boy, have I got stories.

[Elizabeth Day]

Hello and welcome to how to Fail with Me, Elizabeth Day. This is the podcast where I ask every guest about three times they failed and what they learned along the way. I know from experience that starting your own business can be super intimidating and can feel really isolating, so I empathize with those of you who are currently feeling that way. However, I've got a tool for you that can simplify everything and make you feel less alone for millions of businesses. That tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel to brands Just getting started get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your pound one per month trial and start selling today at shopify.co.uk fail go to shopify.co.uk this episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all in one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. Squarespace is here to support entrepreneurship and help turn your passion into a business. It does so with cutting edge design, seamless checkout for customers, with simple but powerful payment tools. It helps you turn leads into clients, allowing you to grow and communicate with your audience. Their customers include the Dusty Knuckle Bakery and Cafe in East London and if you know, you know their bread is amazing. They're a Squarespace customer and a brilliant example of how to do it right. Their training program provides young people who've been excluded by society with the basic skills for work and life. Go check them out. Head to squarespace.com fail10 for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code FAIL10. That's FAIL10 to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. My guest today was a dancer at 10, a model at 14, and a soap opera actor at 18. At 21, she took on her breakthrough role as Princess Buttercup in the Rob Reiner directed classic the Princess Bride. Further iconic performances have followed as Jenny in 1994's Forrest Gump and then for five years from 2013 as Claire Underwood, the venal first lady in Netflix's hit remake of House of Cards. She was the first actress to win a Golden Globe for a streamer only series, and also racked up five consecutive Emmy nominations for Outstanding Lead Actress. She is, of course, Robyn Wright. Born in Dallas, Texas, her parents divorced when she was a toddler and her mother relocated to San Diego, California. Wright herself prioritized family over film roles for many years. When she gave birth to her two children, Dylan and Hopper. By her late 40s, Wright was busy staging a comeback. Her words and her career, both in front of and behind the camera, has gone from strength to strength. She now returns to our screens in the Girlfriend, a psychologically gripping TV series for Amazon prime in which Wright directs, exec, produces and stars as Laura, a billionaire art gallerist who has a suspiciously possessive relationship with her son. By any accounts, then, it's a successful life. But the greatest gift is failing, Wright has said in the past. Failing in a scene in front of the camera and then tightening up your bootlaces, putting your head up and going in and trying again. Robyn Wright, welcome to how to Fail.

[Robin Wright]

Thank you for having me.

[Elizabeth Day]

You are so welcome here with that kind of attitude to failing. Uh, oh, and that quote was actually, it was an interview that you gave where you were asked about the Princess Bride, which I mentioned in the introduction, and you were talking about being a young actor surrounded by these legends of screen. And now, if it's not presumptuous of me, I would say you're the legend. How does that feel? How does it feel being the legend and the girlfriend that the other actors probably look up to and have seen so much of your work?

[Robin Wright]

I mean, it's. It's an incredible feeling to be trusted, that you have a body of work under you for years and years. And we all learned through that experience of making mistakes, failing, looking bad, and then rectifying it on your own. How do you correct. You learn from your mistakes. And to be instilling that and imbuing that to other young actors, that's what makes me feel great as a director, is I am older. I've had more experience. I was where they were when I was their age. We all were. And I don't feel like it's a legend thing. It's just time under the belt.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes. It's that famous thing that Malcolm Gladwell talks about, isn't it? The 10,000 hours that even if you feel nervous still doing what you do, at least you know you've got that experience under your belt.

[Robin Wright]

Oh, yeah. And I feel like if it becomes too comfortable, too lax, you're not really driven by an Energy. There's not an impetus in the same way to want to make something very clear, perfect as you're performing or delivering a speech.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

Right.

[Elizabeth Day]

I completely agree.

[Robin Wright]

Just be a little bit on edge, little bit walking up. Because you do want everyone to feel and accept and absorb in the same way. You just want to be able to feel that you're not alone in a rowboat.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

And no one's getting what you're saying. And you're getting Scooby looks. What? Right.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, I think you do a terrific job of that in the Girlfriend, which I binged over the weekend. I'm obsessed with it. And part of the reason it's so good is obviously your skill as a director and an actor, but also because you have that ability to make something that might on paper seem a bit unbelievable. So this mother, who's very protective of her now only son and a girlfriend, comes on the scene and she's rightly suspicious of this girlfriend, played by Olivia Cook. And it's what unravels after that. And it gets very dramatic and very dark. But it is so brilliantly acted that I. I believed every single second of it.

[Robin Wright]

Oh, I love that. Will you be the only reviewer?

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes, I'll absolutely arrange for that to be the case.

[Robin Wright]

And that was the intention is to not fall prey to falling into melodrama.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

Because every incident, the drive of Cherry, he's the girlfriend. The will of the mother to not lose the love. So it's his tug of war between two women who love the same young man. Don't fall into melodrama. Just make the chaos reality.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

Because it does become chaotic in each of these women. Internally.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

And then they implode.

[Elizabeth Day]

The other thing that struck me about your performance in particular was the physicality of it. You are very in your body and it's very rare that I see dancing scenes on TV shows that aren't cringe and they really weren't. But how physical do you feel acting is specifically? And then we'll get onto directing a bit later.

[Robin Wright]

It's pretty much my foundation. And I think it comes from being a dancer at a very young age. And that, to me, is what makes me feel it. Basically. It invokes something that brings something else to a scene, let's say. So being tactile. If you want to be in a sex scene, but you can't use hands, you can only use eyes of seduction. You know, there's all those games you can play. But all of that, to me, is a dance. Wow.

[Elizabeth Day]

So will you think about how a character moves before you perform them.

[Robin Wright]

It's a big question. And it's interesting to work with actors, being an actor myself, because I know what they need to get to that emotion to deliver that beat that the scene needs. And every actor's different. Every actor does a different dance with you. So you kind of have to read the room and go, ah, okay. Some actors go, give me the line reading, just do it for me and I'll mimic it. And others are like, no, I need you to create a story that will help me bring this emotion to the surface and have it feel real to the viewer, authentic. So you're not acting at the audience, you're actually embodying the character. And that's what makes the audience member sit on the edge of their seat, cry, laugh, get angry. And we're storytellers now, Obviously, we've touched.

[Elizabeth Day]

On the fact that some of the Girlfriend is about motherhood, parenthood. What do you think it taught you or made you think about mothering? Playing this very specific role?

[Robin Wright]

I mean, I could relate to it because of where this ride takes you on this show is, you know, basically it's the love of one man between two women that turns into jealousy and then the jealousy turns into to the death. So I understand that as a mama cub, you take care of your babies and if something you see is perilous for your offspring, you will lie under a. An 18 wheeler truck before the baby's gonna. You know what I mean?

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

So I think we as mothers can all relate to that, but this goes a little bit too far. And I remember saying to my son, he's like, oh, I can't wait to see it, Mom. The trailer looks so good, but it's a little incestuous. And I said, do you think. And I said, just do me a favor, when you finally get to binge it, will you please let me know that I am not that overly protective of you? So we're going to have to wait and see.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, great. Yes. That will be an interesting viewing experience for him in particular. The other thing that I thought the Girlfriend did very well was its approach and analysis of class in a very subtle way. And I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about class because I think you have a very interesting perspective. Raised in America, but you have a British stepfather.

[Robin Wright]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

And you spend a lot of time here in the uk and how much did you want to play with how we feel about class? Yes.

[Robin Wright]

It's very delineated here, I find.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

And I've been here pretty much most of three years working in this country, and I've been educated. And you speak to individuals that are older than me, born and raised here, and they're like, oh, no, it's a thing. In England, it makes a huge difference. What university did you go to? Now? You could say the same about America. If you go to an Ivy League school, you're suddenly elevated because you went to Princeton versus, you know, SoCal College. But here I feel like it's part of the national fabric, the class system, compartmentalization. And you better know the classes and what that requires, how you have to be behave if you're not part of that class. And that's what Cherry's doing is she's trying to fit in, but she's basically saying, this isn't who I am. I love you, Daniel, and I'll never be this. I never came from money. But when you're trying to fit into a class system that you will never be accepted into, really, that's a difficult relationship to have. With a mother in law. Yes, with a mother in law.

[Elizabeth Day]

But your first failure is the fear of fading itself. So the fact that, as you put it to me, you didn't take chances in your earlier career. Which chances didn't you take?

[Robin Wright]

Turning down certain roles that I was offered in my 20s, let's say, because I just didn't think. Think I was qualified to play that character, fully, immerse myself, fail in front of the camera, do another take. I didn't think I had that confidence. So I turned those roles down. And the ladies that did those roles were amazing. I wasn't ready. And so I feel that it just takes time, experience, so that now that's history. I learned from that by finally failing, Having the confidence to fail.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes. I'm so interested by this lack of confidence at that stage. Because you cut your teeth on Santa Barbara rip. I used to watch it.

[Robin Wright]

Oh, my goodness.

[Elizabeth Day]

Which is. It was a really fantastic, long running soap opera. And you have to learn so many lines and be so quick that. What do you think soap opera acting taught you about acting?

[Robin Wright]

You have to become stealth in the technicalities because you've got three cameras going at the same time. So you have to feel out of your periphery. The red lights come on, so that camera and then your head turns this way to get the actor to move over here. So I was trained at a very young age of how to multitask while in a scene. And it was a great schooling, I have to say.

[Elizabeth Day]

But you still didn't feel confident enough, even with that on your cv, to take some of these roles. Why do you think that was?

[Robin Wright]

Because I hadn't done enough. You know, when you're young, you're basically playing yourself. You're speaking as yourself, you're moving as you would move through the world. You're given lines, but you don't own those lines as a grown woman or a grown man. Right. Yet. And I think that's just life. We were babies when we started. We didn't know who we were. We didn't know how to do the in depth homework one has to do to immerse themselves into a completely different character. That's nothing like you if you're playing a murderer, a sociopath. Right?

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah.

[Robin Wright]

When people ask, you know, which parts of you are like, so and so that you played, and you're like, nothing. Really?

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

And that takes time and experience and doing your homework and getting jobs that allow you to play and explore and discover.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

That's how I get there. It's experience.

[Elizabeth Day]

What is the most difficult emotion to convey on screen?

[Robin Wright]

Oh, my God. That's a tough one. I don't really know anymore, Elizabeth, because I feel like I've kind of. I've tapped them all, you know, I've clicked all the boxes. It's almost like a light switch now, truthfully.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah.

[Robin Wright]

And it wasn't before. I couldn't get to an emotion without putting my ipod, you know, and playing melancholic music by, you know, London Grammar to get the tears going. But I do have to say what is still really difficult to do is to go from being like this, and then somebody walks in the door, camera's rolling, and they're like, your husband just died. And to be able to go from us laughing about failure and then having to go to that with tears and shock and dismay in a second. And in life, we do that naturally when something traumatic happens. You know, that's still tough to do because you have to map it out as an actor ahead of time. Okay. When Elizabeth is saying that line, I know it's gonna be in two seconds, I'm gonna have to start sobbing, crying, or screaming at the top of my lungs. So while you're still speaking, I'm allowing that London Grammar music to reach my heart. And you hold it and you're like, yeah, we're doing it now. And then you go, what? You know, it's that flip of a switch that's so quick. But you have to give the preamble a Little bit of time to rise. But that's my personal experience. I don't know how others work.

[Elizabeth Day]

Kat was phenomenal. That was utterly amazing witnessing that. And again, we go back to the physicality, the feeling in your body first. That being where it springs from.

[Robin Wright]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

So in this context, I wonder what it was like for you. So, Forrest Gump, Allow me to be the first person to say, it's one of my favorite movies of all time. I remember going to see it in the cinema, and I remember asking my parents to buy me the soundtrack for Christmas. That's how much I loved it. It was the first ever movie soundtrack.

[Robin Wright]

Such a good soundtrack.

[Elizabeth Day]

The best. And you reunited with Tom Hanks and Bob Zemeckis for here. And of course, in the interim, there's been decades of your experience as an actor. What was it like for you as a sort of sign maybe, of how far you've come or how much your confidence has grown? What was that reunion like?

[Robin Wright]

A. It was like no time had passed for the three of us. Four of us. You know, Eric Roth, who wrote Forrest Gump, adapted Forrest Gump, also wrote here with Bob Zemeckis. So we were a band getting back together, and it was literally like no time had passed. Love each other just same. It was just as easy as if we had had dinner every Sunday night for 10 straight years. You know, we just had a respect for one another going. Right. I learned that, too. When did you learn that? When you were 40, 45. It was great. It was a good therapy session for us. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is Tom Hanks really as nice as he seems?

[Robin Wright]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, just checking. Thank goodness.

[Robin Wright]

The sweetest, the greatest, the funniest. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

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[Robin Wright]

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[Elizabeth Day]

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[Robin Wright]

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[Elizabeth Day]

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[Robin Wright]

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[Elizabeth Day]

I mentioned in the intro and now I'm wondering whether it was quite right but that you were raising children and you made that decision and you made the decision not to take on as many roles. But was that the case or was it more this that you were fearful of taking on the roles?

[Robin Wright]

No, it was that I wanted to be a mom. And I found that as the kids were getting past the toddler years and starting to really make, you know, solid relationships, friends, best friends. When they're 6, 7, 8, 9, taking them away from their routine and their community was really traumatic and what a nightmare. You got to come to another city and sit in a trailer and wait for mom to have a 30 minute lunch where all she wants to do is take a nap because she's so tired. And then I see them for dinner and then give them a bath and put them to bed. Then I'm exhausted because I've worked a 15 hour day. So it's kind of pointless. But the flip side of that, of being a mom was or do I leave and leave them with a nanny and their dad? Which one's worse? They both have their benefits and, and hindrances, you know. So I just decided take a cameo. If you can get a cameo during the school year and you're only gone for five days to Toronto, no problem. But going away and doing a movie for three months in Istanbul and FaceTime wasn't available yet, I didn't think that was fair to them to not be there to raise it. So I just worked in the summers when they were off school and they'd come For a little bit. And then they'd go to camp and they wouldn't even miss me. So it was great.

[Elizabeth Day]

Times have changed a little since that period you're describing. But I wonder if you feel things have got any easier for working parents, particularly in your industry.

[Robin Wright]

I think so. I've heard from a few people in the last 10 years, new mothers, let's say, and it's amazing, the convenience they're given, the accommodation, the support. We're gonna call you in later. Cause you're breastfeeding, you're six week old, we're gonna let you come in later to hair and makeup, things like that. And that's working with the talent. And it's a talent to be a mom. It's, you know, it's a skill.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah.

[Robin Wright]

So to have that kind of support is amazing.

[Elizabeth Day]

Are you angry in any way that times weren't like that then?

[Robin Wright]

They were like that then so much that way. You know, 20 years before I got into this industry, but I was very much taken care of. Would they, you know, pay for the nanny and. No. So you could take your child, but it was kind of, it was on you. And you could always bring your kid to set trailer, have a break, go back, feed the baby. I've had it pretty great.

[Elizabeth Day]

I have to say, going back to this idea that there was a fear of failure for a period of time. Where do you think that stemmed from originally? Can you remember experiencing that fear as a child before you started acting?

[Robin Wright]

Oh, God, yeah. Oh yeah, Big time school. And it started with academia because I just struggled with English and math. And that feeling of just sweating and you could feel it brewing, going, oh my God, I'm going to fail. I'm not going to be able to write this essay. I don't know how to do it properly. And that's when you start looking over the shoulder of your colleague in the class, right? You're like, can I see how you did the thing and the thing and the conclusion? And then I would start asking questions to my friends who were smarter than me, who were natural writers, great at arithmetic. And I would say, can you teach me how your methodology works for you? And you start doing that throughout your life as an actor, observing directors, what not to do, what you could think, okay, I know I'll never do that because that doesn't work for an actor. And I think you could generalize certain things in that context, right? And then what you do is you just stockpile all this education that you acquire over the years, whether it's in the workplace, relationships, family, being a mother to your kids as they grow up and start talking back and you start seeing these human beings that are their own people. And you're like, where did you come from? Then you have to navigate through different waters. And I love having that big old bag because then it's almost like the bag turned into a Givenchy sack.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

Of just good quality wisdom. Let's call them clickbaits. Let's call them cliches. Whatever. It worked. Gaining them and using them to your advantage.

[Elizabeth Day]

And I think what strikes me about that is that you asked the questions, you were curious, rather than what so many people experience, which is this kind of defensive, judgmental fear that they're not enough. So they don't want to reveal that they're not enough by asking the question. They don't want to reveal that they don't know. And I just think that's such an important thing to remember that actually it's often more powerful to say, I don't know and ask the question.

[Robin Wright]

You couldn't have said it better. That is the power. And once you own the freedom and the want to say, I don't know what that means. Tell me what that means. Will you write that down? I want to study it. Tell me where I can get online and read more about that. What a liberating thing.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

Because it's truth.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

The other thing's a lie.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

When you're holding it in or being like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that. Yeah, it's a lie.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah.

[Robin Wright]

And I just think truth is, you know, you can love everyone. I was listening to, you know Ram Dass.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

He has this piece on, this beautiful piece of music that I was listening to, and he's telling a story about when he first met Maharaj. And Maharaj says, just love everyone, Ram Dass. And he says, I can't. He said, why? He said, because I have too much judgment in me for other people. It's impossible. And he said, yes, you can love everyone and tell the truth. And it changed his life. And then he became a guru for other people. And those two things are genius. They're so simple. You can love. They might get angry when you tell the truth, but you're still loving them.

[Elizabeth Day]

I couldn't agree more. And sometimes the hardest person to love is yourself. And so sometimes you're being judgmental. I'm talking about myself here, actually.

[Robin Wright]

But we all do that, right?

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes. Sometimes you're being most judgmental of you. And that's why you're projecting judgment of other people. And that's why the work. It's like living in the question, living in the love.

[Robin Wright]

That's that. And I think that's the biggest poison that we do to ourselves. We get stuck when we're self loathing.

[Elizabeth Day]

I. I don't want to be a COD psychologist about this at all, but I do speak to a lot of people who were raised with divorced parents and they felt that they had to be perfect in order to be lovable, to sort of fix a problem that wasn't theirs their making. Do you relate to that in any way?

[Robin Wright]

Absolutely. And I became, you know, the caretaker from a very young age. I was the person in the room where I wanted to keep everything calm. Didn't like confrontation, hated confrontation, hated people that blew up. And I remember thinking, I really need to get into a therapy to release myself from this conduit that's holding me into the panic that I feel when somebody snaps, loses it. Because you get crew members, directors, actors that you've experienced over the years that just lose it on set at a crew member. And it just holds. Horrifies me. And I don't mind that because I think we can all be kind and stern. But it really used to rock my world.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

And at a certain point I just decided to go with diplomacy and calm in those instances. Because then it brings everybody off that ledge and people go, well, then you're all chaotic inside because you're suppressing it. I said, no, what I'm doing is I'm helping with a tactic. It's almost like a fun game we're going to play. Let's see if my energy, which is quantum physics, right. If you put that energy out in the room, people are going to get off the rage horse. So I like spreading that energy, which is easy for me to do. I'm not a good confrontation person where I'm like, no, you listen, you sit down. You can't talk to people. I'd never been that way.

[Elizabeth Day]

So did you learn to do that through experience?

[Robin Wright]

Probably experience through, you know. Yeah. Child of divorce. And I mean, what's the percentage of children of divorce? It's. It's a lot. So I think we've all been. Most of us have been through that. And as a child, you do just fall into it almost feels like an obligation. Like you were saying, it's like you have to be perfect and make sure everything in the room is perfect and everyone's happy. Make sure everyone's happy. And that's my responsibility. Because if things start to blow, it's my responsibility because I didn't keep it calm.

[Elizabeth Day]

I totally relate.

[Robin Wright]

And you want to free kids up from saying it's not your responsibility. And if that freaks you out, understandably. So if somebody's yelling in a room and it makes you really uncomfortable, leave the room, walk away from the drama, don't engage, and take it on. Right. So that's through life experience, too.

[Elizabeth Day]

And also romantic relationships. You have to be careful not to take that into romantic relationships. She said, I know. Yeah. And that's a learning process.

[Robin Wright]

It is. And, you know, that's cognitive therapy, which you learn later in life after you do other therapies. And will you do this? And there's two rules that I think are really important in a relationship that come from that style of therapy, which is you're not allowed to use the words never or always. And always come from a place of. I. I felt this when you said that, not you said you did it in this way. And it really does work.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

And trying to teach your children to operate that way, you hope that they just take that baton and run with it and they'll have a healthy relationship.

[Elizabeth Day]

My final question on this particular failure is as someone who was historically the peacekeeper, conflict avoidant, disliked, confrontation, was it then extremely liberating playing Claire Underwood? Yeah, in a sense.

[Robin Wright]

It allowed me to feel what it would be like to have that kind of strength and power where you're not concerned with what anybody else thinks, because that's your truth, you know, and that's a funny character to compare it to. But when playing a part, you need to invest in being that person, otherwise it won't be felt by the audience. You have to become. You have to like that character. As venal as they are. You gotta love that character you're playing, otherwise it doesn't really translate.

[Elizabeth Day]

And that's so interesting because then you realize that you have the capacity within you.

[Robin Wright]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

When you're embodying it. So it's like, actually, I can tap into that in my real life.

[Robin Wright]

I choose not to.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

Your second failure is your fear of not being good as a director.

[Robin Wright]

Good enough.

[Elizabeth Day]

Good enough. Okay. You started on House of Cards, but it was someone else who suggested it, wasn't it?

[Robin Wright]

Yes, it was the camera operator who had been with us for the three seasons, and he was very experienced. Like, he'd shot Michael Mann Oliver Stone movie. You know, he'd been around the block, and he was getting older, and he said, he's from Texas he was like, rob, I just want to be inside. I don't want to be out in the elements in the winter. I'm 74. Like, I just want to. I want a 9 to 5 job. Because we shot everything of House of Cards in a hangar. They built all the stages to replicate the White House. And so he, I was by his side every day asking him questions. Why did you move the camera there? Why did you start moving the lens this way when the line was delivered? What lens are you using? Why? Finally he said to me, season three, he said, why don't you get out there and do it? And I've got your back. And you've got our whole team of guys here that you've worked with for three years, and you've been asking them questions like an irritating kid. Do it while you do it. Learn while you do it. So he kind of inspired me to ask Netflix if they would let me direct one. And I did, and I loved it and I learned so much from the guys, so I owe it to them. I mean, they really gave me cinema school. Welcome to Only Murders in the Building the official podcast. Join me, Michael Ciro Creighton as we go behind the scenes with some of the amazing actors, writers and crew from season five.

[Elizabeth Day]

The audience should never stop suspecting anything.

[Robin Wright]

How can you not be funny crawling.

[Elizabeth Day]

Around on a coffin?

[Robin Wright]

Yeah, that's true. Catch Only Murders in the Building Official podcast now streaming wherever you get your podcasts and watch Only Murders in the Building streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers terms apply. This message is sponsored by Greenlight. With school out, summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world.

[Elizabeth Day]

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[Robin Wright]

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[Elizabeth Day]

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[Elizabeth Day]

You directed three episodes, I just want to know, as someone who is a complete ignoramus, how does it practically work when you're directing yourself? Starring?

[Robin Wright]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

How do you do it?

[Robin Wright]

It's literally like turning on a light switch because it's so second nature at this point. I've been doing it 40 years, you know, and. But mind you, I'm still directing when I'm acting in the scene and it's a two shot, I'm still looking at you going, I'm doing my lines and I'm being Laura. But I'm watching, seeing if I got what I wanted. And then I'll call cut. And then I'll say, can we just do it again? And can you do this this way?

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes. Given what we were talking about in the previous failure, you becoming the diplomat, you listening, observing, seeing the things that weren't said that needed to be said or needed not to be said, and sort of ushering people to their own conclusions about what would be the most peaceful way forward. That plus the Santa Barbara experience where you're constantly aware even though you're not looking at the camera with a red light. All of these things have come into play to make you the director that you are.

[Robin Wright]

I think so.

[Elizabeth Day]

But you're fearful of not being good enough.

[Robin Wright]

Of course, because I haven't done it enough and I hope to do more of it, to learn more and become better. And this is not about comparing yourselves to, you know, whether it's me and six other kind of inexperienced directors comparing yourself to the uber experienced or just naturally talented directors that just have it like a David Fincher or an Edvard Berger who I met in the post production process of the Girlfriend. And I love his movies because they're all different. And I'm like, I want to do that. And that takes a particular skill that I'm still learning.

[Elizabeth Day]

And what do you think the Robin Wright directorial style is? Or are you still shaping it?

[Robin Wright]

Definitely still shaping it, without question. But I think the essence of where I come from is I have to believe it. I haven't done enough.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah.

[Robin Wright]

And this was the first opportunity I had, you know, at late 50s, just started directing in my mid-40s, you know, like this is late start and I'm so thrilled to have had this opportunity to build something from the ground up where I could bring my vision from the inception and bring the others in going, you get me? You follow me. We on the Same page. Great.

[Elizabeth Day]

And I love how you've expressed that about starting, quote, unquote, later. I mean, starting in your prime, let's be honest. But that. Because I think, particularly as women, we are so often sold the myth that age diminishes and withers us, that no one will have any. I can't even imagine what it's like as a female actor. But if there is anyone listening to this podcast right now who feels that they've missed their chance and that they're getting too old, what would you say to them?

[Robin Wright]

Too old to do what? Yeah, I'm sorry. But, you know, do you have the stamina, the energy? I don't know what field we're talking about, but if we're just talking about moving into directing or, you know, acting and later in your life, it's. Do you have the desire? Is it strong enough, the want? Do you have the energy to put new work? And you got to open your mind to things that maybe you thought you knew and you didn't know.

[Elizabeth Day]

How are you feeling about turning 60? I imagine pretty great.

[Robin Wright]

It's a number.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

I have more wrinkles. That happens, you know, I don't know. I don't feel. I still feel like I'm in my, you know, early 30s, mid-30s, and I feel like I'm in a new chapter and not my last chapter. I'm in a new one and I'm going to learn so much, and I can't wait.

[Elizabeth Day]

I can't wait either. I think everyone has a psychic age other than their actual age, and mine has always been 32. Whatever age I have been or am, I still feel 32.

[Robin Wright]

Good. That's two good numbers.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes, right. Exactly. My last question on this failure. There are far fewer female directors because of social inequalities, systemic sexism, decades of it. Is part of your fear around being good enough or worry about failing in some way? Is it to do with that also that you want to not let down the sisterhood?

[Robin Wright]

I don't want to feel that I'm in a position where I'm competing with male directors who I feel are better and everybody else that knows that they're better, better than I. I just don't want to feel that pressure. And I think that's just in the atmosphere, and it's been in the atmosphere, and it's been going on for years. It's. Men have always been the elevated gender. They just have. And it's been accepted in society, and we've grown up that way. So this is Nothing new. But I just don't want to feel that inequality because of pressure. Like, you'll never be as good as these guys because, I mean, you look at incredible female, Jane Campion's incredible female director, you know. Yeah, but why do we have to compete and say, well, is she better than. I don't believe in that. I just want it to become an ebb and flow. Let me grow.

[Elizabeth Day]

What is your worst experience of another director? And you don't have to name names or anything, but something. Because you said earlier that you learn what not to do as well as what to do from your experience as an actor.

[Robin Wright]

Boy, have I got stories also.

[Elizabeth Day]

Feel free to name names if you'd like to. Who am I?

[Robin Wright]

Kind of do. I'm gonna preface it with a man who really doesn't like women. Very successful director in his day. And I was very young and shy, and I was traveling in a helicopter with this director out to the middle of a desert in California. And I mean, in the middle of this desert, like, nothing around where the set was to meet a very, very famous actor or two that he was directing in this movie. And I was ushered into the trailer to meet this very successful famous actor. And I was nervous as hell. You know, my heart's palpitating, and I'm just, like, sweating. I didn't know what to say. And I thought protocol would be what I was accustomed to, which is, when you're invited in, you are introduced to this new person, they set up the meeting like, you're here for this, and we're gonna talk about the characters and the story and blah, blah, blah. No intro, nothing. Dead silence. And I started to feel like it was my responsibility to start the meeting. I was a baby. And he yelled at me and said, speak. And I got up out of the trailer and I ran out into the desert, started crying, found some shade. And I was like, how am I gonna get out of here? I'm in the middle of the desert, and I just wanted to get away. So those kinds of things. I'm just like, I would never. And that's why it's so cool to. To be older. And you feel for the youngins, you know? Cause you're like, I know, exactly. You're torturing yourself because you're not getting that beat in the scene, and you torture yourself. But you can help them a little bit by just going, you know what? We were all in that boat.

[Elizabeth Day]

Thank you for sharing that, and I'm so sorry that happened to you. Did you get out of the desert. How did you get out? Did you get the helicopter?

[Robin Wright]

The other very established older actor who just was incredibly kind, and he came out and saw me squatting in what little shade I got from one side of the car. And I was squatted down on the. And I was crying. And he was like, you're gonna get heat stroke. It was 116 degrees Fahrenheit. It was like. It was crazy. And he walked me into the production trailer that was air conditioned. And I said, can somebody just get me a driver to the airport? And I got out of there. Oh, but you know those things. It doesn't sound very bad, but it really.

[Elizabeth Day]

The power.

[Robin Wright]

The power of it was intense.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah.

[Robin Wright]

And what that does when you're young and you're very impressionable is it makes you trigger shy, you know, and those are the things that you end up spending tens of thousands of dollars worth of therapy. Yes, they try to get over it.

[Elizabeth Day]

But they end up making you a brilliant director. So your final failure. And I'm actually going to let you say it in your words, but it's about the youth of today and what you wish for them.

[Robin Wright]

I feel I would be a failure if. When I die, before I die, if I don't have some kind of influence, advice, guidance that I can give to the youth of today of how to grow up in this very destructive state of the world that we're living in. The corruption, the deception, the lies, what media has done. You can't trust any of it. You know, social media has taken over the. You. It's. There's so much digital influence that is designed by whomever wants to design it, and they'll feed you whatever cookie they want to give you. And I just would love to. To help in some way, in whatever way I can, to help the youth. Say I call bullshit on that.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Robin Wright]

And I'm gonna stand up. You're not gonna control my life in that way. Because they're moving into a world that seems to be getting worse, is that.

[Elizabeth Day]

You'Ve always been an activist, from my understanding of you, and you've done a lot for the Congo and you've been very kind of engaged in the industry in which you operate. Is it difficult to speak out?

[Robin Wright]

Maybe my representative would say, maybe don't go there. I'm at a place in my life where I'm like, I'm not yelling and screaming at anyone. I'm just saying, let's talk the truth. Because that feels like we started this conversation. That feels realistic and authentic, and that is loving. Like, let's talk the truth. Let's get through and around this in some way if we can. And you know, that's the perfect world. We wouldn't have war if we could do that.

[Elizabeth Day]

You're leaving us with something to aspire to. And you are a truth teller and a storyteller. And I'm so grateful to you for your work, but also for coming on how to Fail. It's been a really wonderful conversation. Thank you.

[Robin Wright]

I've loved it. Thank you, Elizabeth. It's great talking to you.

[Elizabeth Day]

Oh, right away.

[Robin Wright]

Let's do it again.

[Elizabeth Day]

Let's do it again.

[Robin Wright]

We have a whole other thing to talk about.

[Elizabeth Day]

We do. I know. Please do follow how to fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends this is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.

[Robin Wright]

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[Elizabeth Day]

And a drink.

[Robin Wright]

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