Rosamund Pike - ‘Failure Is Pretending To Be Someone You’re Not’

Summary

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How To Fail With Elizabeth Day — Rosamund Pike: ‘Failure Is Pretending To Be Someone You’re Not’

Date: March 11, 2026
Guests: Elizabeth Day (host), Rosamund Pike (guest)

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Episode Overview

In this vulnerable and engaging episode, Elizabeth Day welcomes acclaimed actor Rosamund Pike to unpack the role that “failure” has played in her fascinatingly unconventional life. Known onscreen for her intelligent, morally ambiguous characters, Pike opens up about her real-life “failures”—from language learning, to failed relationships, to career missteps and botched dinners. The conversation explores not only the lessons but the liberation found in letting go of other people’s templates and expectations, ultimately making the case that the real failure is in pretending to be someone you’re not.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Decision to Avoid Reading Reviews

• Rosamund’s Approach: For over two decades, Pike has refused to read reviews of her work, starting after a scarring caricature in the Sunday Times.

“And there was the most monstrous caricature of me... the headline was ‘Who Let the Dogs Out?’... from that point on I have never opened a paper, I’ve never read a review.” (06:56)

• Elizabeth’s Reflection: Elizabeth echoes this, saying avoiding reviews is reclaiming a bit of power over one’s own narrative.

“It used to feel like picking a scab. If I'd known of the existence of a negative review, I would seek it out... Now I refuse to read them.” (08:05)

2. Luminate: Sensory Meditation and Creative Directorship

• Luminate App: As creative director, Rosamund describes how the sensory entrainment sleep mask helps quiet the “frontal mode network” of the brain, revitalizing users through color and pattern hallucinations.

“It’s like a total brain reset. It’s like, clears the cash, you know, clears the totally.” (14:16)

• Personal Impact: Elizabeth gushes about using the device and how it improves her sense of calm and creativity.

“I’ve used it every day since I got sent it... it really revitalizes, refreshes, makes me feel so much more in touch with creativity and calm.” (14:47)

3. Failure One: The Myth of Pike’s Mandarin Fluency

• The Fart Lady Incident: Despite claims, Rosamund struggles to speak Mandarin, aside from a viral idiom about not wasting time: “taking your trousers off to fart,” earning her the nickname “Fart Lady” in China.

“I said this and this clip from the Graham Norton Show... went viral all over China. And I am now known in China as the Fart Lady.” (16:25)

• Feelings of Shame: Pike wrestles with the shame of receiving credit for something she feels she doesn’t deserve, reflecting on the pressures of projected excellence.

“It’s just embarrassing that I get a lot of credit for being able to do it and I can’t actually do it.” (16:57)

4. Perfectionism, Shame, and Perspective on Small Failures

• Chocolate-Stained Diplomat: Pike recounts obsessing over a chocolate stain on her suit before meeting the Chinese Premier, feeling she had “let Britain down.” (24:21)
• Public Failures vs. Letting Go: By contrast, she describes being less bothered by opening the envelope too early at the BAFTAs—a major public gaffe—revealing her ability to let go of mistakes she felt less personal ownership over.

“I don’t care. Why don’t I care? I don’t care. I’ve embarrassed myself massively ... This might mean I never have to do this again.” (26:59)

5. Career Reflections: Seeking Authentic Roles

• Jane Bennet in ‘Pride & Prejudice’: Pike discusses bringing optimism rather than bland niceness to Jane, sharing a tender memory of intimate scenes with Keira Knightley. (28:26)

“She finds life more relaxing if she chooses to be optimistic. That’s how I saw her.” (28:39)

• ‘Saltburn’ and the Freedom of Character Work: She relishes Emerald Fennell’s irreverence and her own opportunity to play high Englishness with a “light touch.”
• Coolness and Authenticity: Pike’s definition of being “cool”: “You can go your own way. You don’t give too many fucks. You can think originally. I think you’ve got some attitude. Yes, I think I do feel cool.” (33:47)

6. Failure Two: “I Failed at Being an Action Star”

• ‘Doom’ Disaster: Her ill-fated turn in the action movie ‘Doom’ left Pike feeling out of her league beside Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson and disconnected from the genre’s expectations of sex appeal and physicality.

“The film was an absolute bomb. I mean, it probably could have ended my career. I mean, it was just probably one of the worst films ever made.” (40:18)

• Lessons Learned: Pike now sees that the environment didn’t suit her nature or values; it’s okay to fail at something that isn’t your authentic self.

7. Failure Three: Not Getting Married (“the failure to get married”)

• Called Off Engagement to Joe Wright: Pike describes the “devastating” end of her high-profile relationship, and the social script she felt she had failed.

“When it falls apart, everybody thinks the absolute worst...and so they look at you, you get the benevolent pity again... It is devastating. It’s utterly devastating, but it’s not devastating in any of the ways that people imagine.” (45:28)

• Freedom Through Breaking the Template: Letting go allowed Pike to embrace new templates for womanhood—unmarried, happy, and herself.

“You think there are so many other templates of what life can look like for a woman. I mean, there are so many other ways that love can look like, you know, and here I am, I'm not married, but I have a family and I've been with someone for 14, 15 years. Happily not married.” (47:36)

• Survival as the Greatest Lesson: The biggest takeaway: surviving failure is in itself liberating—“That’s the biggest part, is when you say, I’m fucking still here and I’ve done it and this is in my past.” (50:05)

8. Motherhood, Male Households, and Pushing Boundaries

• Life as a Boy Mum: Pike speaks candidly about the surprise and adventure of raising two sons, feeling occasional pangs about not having a daughter, but relishing the “bond between brothers” and the courage it brings out in her.

“I love the brothers. I love the relationship of brothers...To watch the bond between two brothers and the fights and the sudden, you know, rage that can dissolve into laughter that I completely don’t understand.” (53:42)

• Adventure and Fear: Pike openly admits her own cowardice and how portraying brave women is a kind of aspiration.

“I like to play brave people because I like to pretend that I’m not...I’m constantly in battle with my own fear.” (53:46)

9. Final (Bonus) Failure: The Undercooked Rabbit

• The Dinner Party Catastrophe: Pike tells a hilariously self-effacing story about failing to cook a rabbit dish in her 20s, using the episode as emblematic of setting impossible standards for herself in an effort to be the “earth mother.”

“By the time my guests arrived there was no way this thing was fucking falling anywhere near off the bone. It was like gripping onto that bone...” (56:30)

• Larger Message: Whether in relationships, careers, or kitchens, the real danger is striving to meet someone else’s story of success or perfection.

“Failure is really all about who you want to be and your failure to meet your own standards... It will be that you’ve pretended that you were thriving when you weren’t or you wanted to be someone who had... It’s usually about how you want to be perceived.” (59:20)

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Notable Quotes

• On trying to fit the template:
  “Actually, other things come and then you feel cool because actually you've done it your own way and you've survived. Which is the best part of all.” (48:40), Rosamund Pike

• On the aftermath of heartbreak:
  “That’s the thing that all failure actually is. That’s the biggest part, is when you say, I’m fucking still here and I’ve done it and this is in my past.” (50:05), Rosamund Pike

• On the real meaning of “cool”:
  “Cool is about being apart, is being okay with being apart, is keeping the sort of temperature chill when not having to kind of join in with the latest craze... Anticipate something, don’t just follow it.” (34:50), Rosamund Pike

• On failure and shame:
  “I can be so hard on myself for quite small things, and then I can let myself off the hook for something much bigger. It’s a weird thing... There’s a kind of shame involved, isn’t there?” (22:52), Rosamund Pike

• On impostor feelings:
  “Have you ever had that where you get a lot of credit for something that you actually sort of think... I don't think I get the credit in the first place.” (18:18), Rosamund Pike / Elizabeth Day

• On moving past perfectionism:
  “Now, I’m much more relaxed... I know how to cook, I know how to conjure good flavours. It might be a bit chaotic, it might be a bit late... but I will feed you well and I will kind of give you a good time.” (58:43), Rosamund Pike

• On enough-ness:
  “People want to come for dinner with you because of you. Like, you are enough. You are glorious company.” (60:25), Elizabeth Day

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Timestamps for Crucial Segments

• Rosamund’s first brutal review and swearing off reviews for life: 06:56
• Discussion of Luminate and meditation: 14:00–15:00
• Rosamund's "Mandarin" shame/Fart Lady story: 16:25–17:40
• Chocolate on her suit meeting the Chinese Premier: 24:21–25:18
• Public flop at the BAFTAs and letting go: 26:59–27:16
• ‘Pride & Prejudice’ and the art of subtlety: 28:26–29:03
• ‘Saltburn’ and Englishness/social satire: 31:01–33:33
• What it means to be “cool”: 33:37–34:50
• Doomed attempt at action stardom: 40:18–41:10
• Calling off the wedding and societal expectations: 45:28–47:36
• On survival and freedom after heartbreak: 50:05
• On raising boys and mothers’ fears: 53:42–54:55
• Failure in the kitchen—rabbit story and the impossibility of perfection: 56:30–58:43
• Closing affirmations: “You are enough.” 60:25–60:41

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Episode Tone and Takeaways

• Warm, self-effacing humor, deep vulnerability, and an underlying message of permission to be imperfect run through the entire episode. Pike’s wry and vivid storytelling—about everything from action bombs to culinary disasters to heartbreak—emphasizes that building a life outside the “template” is both liberating and hard-won.
• Elizabeth Day’s empathetic, intelligent probing enhances the sense of honesty and camaraderie, making this a conversation full of both sage advice and cathartic laughter.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

If you’ve ever worried about not living up to external or even your own impossible standards, this episode is a salve. Pike’s stories are proof that “failing” can reveal deeper truth, resilience, and ultimately, far more interesting forms of success—so long as you’re brave enough not to pretend.

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Transcript

[Rosamund Pike]

And the film was an absolute bomb. I mean, I probably could have ended my career. I mean, it was just probably one of the worst films ever made. We had a huge love affair. We were very, very in love. We had massive masses of adventures. We were very wild. And then it all fell apart. And when it falls apart, everybody thinks, oh my God, you know, what is it must be an affair. Polygamy, you know, drug scandal. But then you realize that actually you're free in a way, because you can. You think there are so many other templates of what life can look like for a woman. I'm the center of attention so often. I don't need a wedding. I'm quite a coward, really. And I like to play brave people because I like to pretend that I'm not.

[Elizabeth Day]

Hello and welcome to how to Fail. This is the podcast that believes every single failure can teach you something meaningful in the fullness of time. Before we get onto this conversation, please do remember to like, follow and subscribe so that you never miss a single episode. Hello, this is Elizabeth Day from the how to Fail podcast. I wanted to share something I'm genuinely excited about. One of my favorite UK wellness brands, Ancient and Brave, has just launched in the us I've used two of their products in my daily routine and they've made a tangible difference. The first is True Creatine Plus. With added taurine, vitamin D and magnesium, it supports physical performance, energy and cognitive function. It's easy to take at home or on the go, whether I'm working out or not. I also use their clinically studied True Collagen, a pure, potent and powerful staple that supports skin elasticity and hydration as well as whole body health. It's EU sourced, so free from growth hormones or antibiotics, plus it's neutral in taste and dissolves effortlessly into coffee or smoothies or a cup of tea. I would say that as a brick, wouldn't I? Ancient and Brave are proud members of 1% for the planet, meaning that 1% of their sales go to environmental causes wellness that feels good and does good too. Go to ancientandbrave.com planet and use the code howtofail. That's how to fail. No spaces or one word for $10 off any purchase. Masterclass is the streaming platform that makes it possible for anyone to watch or listen to hundreds of video lessons taught by more than 200 of the world's best. Whether be in business and leadership, photography, cooking, acting, music, sports and more. Masterclass delivers a world class online learning experience. The classes that excited me the most were the ones on writing. So there's a session with actual Malcolm Gladwell, author of Blink and the Tipping point. He's done 24 classes on how to find, research and write stories that capture big ideas and it's totally inspiring. I love that you can turn your commute or workout into a classroom with audio mode so you can listen to a Masterclass lesson anytime, anywhere. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual [e-mail] fail. That's 15% [e-mail] fail masterclass.com my guest today is known for her screen and stage portrayals of morally complex characters, the kind who are intelligent, watchful and often ever so slightly unexpected. In her own life, Rosamund pike embodies a similar sense of delightful ambiguity. An English rose who speaks Mandarin, a stage school reject who became an Oxford graduate, an actor whose long term partner is is a mathematician whose sons are called Solo and Atom, and who is creative director for a consciousness altering meditation app called Luminate. Such eclecticism is a legacy, perhaps of a bohemian childhood. Pike's parents were classical singers who took her backstage from a young age. At 11, she won a scholarship to a Bristol boarding school. By 16, she was at the National Youth Theatre where she busked playing the cello to afford the fees. Later she took a year off from reading English at Oxford University to pursue acting and on graduation landed a part as Bond girl Miranda Frost in Die Another Day. From there her career went stratospheric. Roles followed in 2005's Pride and Prejudice, Jack Reacher, A Private War and Saltburn. She was Oscar nominated for her star turn in Gone Girl and won a Golden Globe for her leading role in 2020's I Care A Lot. In 2025 she returned to the stage for the first time in 15 years in the National Theatre's inter alia. Critics described her performance in the searing legal drama as electric and the play transfers to London's Wyndham Theatre this month. A self confessed perfectionist, pike says from a young age that she was forensically interested in why I believed something and why I didn't. Even when I sat in rehearsals with my mother, she says I gave her a note age 7. I told her that she broke character just before she started her aria. Rosamund pike, welcome to how to Fail. Oh gosh.

[Rosamund Pike]

Thank you very much Elizabeth. Thank you.

[Elizabeth Day]

Did you see?

[Rosamund Pike]

I had to cover my ears when you read it. I studiously never read reviews. I have this superstition that if I hear anything good I won't Be able to repeat it? Yes, or it will disappear. I feel if I, if I'm told something good, I won't be able to do it.

[Elizabeth Day]

Have you always been someone who didn't read reviews or is that something you

[Rosamund Pike]

learned on the job? Well, I haven't read them for probably 25 years. The very first big BBC drama I did was Love in a Cold Climate. You know, the last time it came around and you know, it was a big deal, it was Nancy Mitford, it was directed by Tom Hooper. You know, we had this wonderful cast of Celia Imrie and Alan Bates and she, Sheila Gish and Anthony Andrews. And it was all these sort of legends were surrounding us and the three girls who was Elizabeth, Dermot Walsh, Megan Dodds and myself. And on the Sunday morning of the first episode I was in Sainsbury's and I thought, you know what? I am going to buy the papers. I am going to, you know, it's my first thing, I'm going to see what people are saying. And I bought the top one was the Sunday Times and I opened the Culture which then, as you know, the great late, great A.A. gill was the TV reviewer.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Rosamund Pike]

And there was the most monstrous caricature of me and Elizabeth and Meghan and the headline was who Let the Dogs Out? And I was in the queue, you know, about to reach the checkout, just frozen with my papers and whatever else I was buying. And from that point on I have never opened a paper, I've never read a review. And I'm sure that what AA Gill wrote about us was very funny as everything he wrote and it was probably fair and it might have also been, it might have been complimentary. But the headline certainly. No, certainly wasn't.

[Elizabeth Day]

You don't need to take that in.

[Rosamund Pike]

No. And I think. And then I thought, well, you know, if I don't want to read nasty stuff, it's not fair that I get to read good stuff. So therefore I just don't read anything.

[Elizabeth Day]

I'm the same. Not that I am an Oscar nominated actress with a global following, but I write books and I a few years ago made the decision not to read any reviews and I'm quite proud of myself because it used to feel like picking a scab. If I'd known of the existence of a negative review, I would seek it out and read it and it would sort of validate every bad thought I

[Rosamund Pike]

ever had about myself.

[Elizabeth Day]

Now I know of the existence and I refuse to read them. And it's a way of sort of taking back a Bit of power.

[Rosamund Pike]

It probably is that. See, I knew this was gonna be therapy. It's all about control. My partner reads his ebay feedback. That's where I send him if he's ever in a kind of morose state of mind, because he was once called the nicest man on ebay. So I send him in the direction of his ebay feedback, where he gets a lot of positive affirmation.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's so sweet. What's he selling on ebay? Just household items.

[Rosamund Pike]

I don't know. It was just. It was a kind of. I think it was. He was a great believer in. No, he's a great believer in the principles of ebay. And somebody came to him and offered him a kind of Buy it now at a sort of above the, you know, offer. And he said, no, you know, due to the principles of ebay, I'm going to stick to the auction, but wish you best of luck. And the man ended up getting it, but at a much lower price than he'd offered in the Buy it Now. And I think, you know, probably learnt something and also thought, God, this man is really decent.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, we're going to come onto your partner because it pertains to one of your failures.

[Rosamund Pike]

I don't really talk about it. I don't know why I've offered it up.

[Elizabeth Day]

I know.

[Rosamund Pike]

Thank you so much.

[Elizabeth Day]

Thank you so much.

[Rosamund Pike]

That's just because I called it therapy. And we're sitting in a pink booth.

[Elizabeth Day]

We are. It's like a womb, a womb of

[Rosamund Pike]

confession, a womb of failure. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

I wanted to end on that quote from your mother saying that you gave her a note, age 7. I wonder if history records whether she responded to that note. Did she agree with it?

[Rosamund Pike]

She absolutely did agree with it. Yeah. And I think that was one thing about being an only child in a creative family, is that we really spoke very frankly and openly and took sort of ideas from one another. And it didn't. I think, you know, I mean, I think if she hadn't agreed with it, she would have said so. But in that instance, she thought, my God, she's right, you know, because you do. As a singer, there's a technical, you know, there's technical preparation, obviously, to singing a big aria. And sometimes that can take for a flash away from the character, you know, and then I think when you kind of carry on in the business and it's the same with what I do, you know, there are some things, some things that require a sort of technical, virtuosic sort of ability, but you have to sort of hide that and still be real, as though you're just living it.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, with, inter alia, it's a play without an interval, which, as an audience member, I absolutely love. One hour, 40 minutes straight through. As the start of that play, do you prefer an interval or is it.

[Rosamund Pike]

Well, I mean, that play really warrants not having one. It's kind of. It mirrors a woman's life. It mirrors the fact that a woman, a modern, successful working woman with a family and friends and a relationship to keep up and a child, you know, doesn't get a break. And I think this play has to not have a break because Jessica Parks, who's a Crown Court judge, she doesn't get a break. And every time she thinks she's in control of the narrative, some other something else crashes into her world. And that's why so many women watched it the first time around at the national and thought, oh, my God, I've just seen myself represented on stage. That is my life. And actually some women came with their teenage sons and one of my friends said her son turned to her at the end of the play and said, oh, mum, I think that's you, isn't it? And she was like, yep. He was like, thank you. Which was pretty major.

[Elizabeth Day]

Have your sons seen it?

[Rosamund Pike]

No, they were just under the threshold. We put a 14 year old, 14 age limit on it because, you know, there are. It does deal with sex crimes and sexual assault as themes are in the play. And, you know, I'm a judge sentencing some pretty gory cases and a lot of it's spoken word, but it's still. We had to pick an age and 14 was the.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is it true that David Fincher, when you were starring in Gone Girl, once gave you a note from having filmed the back of your head and said you're not impressed enough from looking at the back of your head?

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, gosh, no. I think that might have been Tom Hooper in Love in a Cold Climate.

[Elizabeth Day]

I know that Fincher did say to you to think about smoothness.

[Rosamund Pike]

Yes, he always talked about being smooth. Huh. You know, he always wanted me to relax and never show anything in my forehead, which is always very hard for me because I won't have Botox, but I move. Move my head a lot. And he never wanted to see a single thing on the forehead.

[Elizabeth Day]

Before we get onto your failures, I have to talk to you about Luminate.

[Rosamund Pike]

Luminate. Good. Have you tried it?

[Elizabeth Day]

Amazing. Yes.

[Rosamund Pike]

Have you got Anova? Yes. You have? Great, great. It's incredible.

[Elizabeth Day]

And I promise you I'm not just saying this.

[Rosamund Pike]

No, I believe you.

[Elizabeth Day]

I've always struggled with meditation. I've always known that I should do it and never been able to, really. And Luminate, for the listeners and viewers, it's. You explain it, Rosamund. You'll do a better job.

[Rosamund Pike]

It looks like a sleep mask. And Luminate uses the process of sensory entrainment. So we use a pulsing light source, which is now encoded into the mask. And the mask will shade your eyes completely, so you're in a state of darkness. And then the light will begin, and it will pulse sort of around your forehead area, I suppose, where your third eye would be, between your eyebrows. And it's an input that your brain is registering, but it doesn't compute like a visual or like words. So the frontal mode network of your brain, which is the kind of busy. What I must do today, the list making, organizing part of your brain quietens down because it's not an input that. That part of your brain deals with. And other synapses fire. And it puts you very quickly and easily in touch with your subconscious. And what you see in front of your closed eyes or your mind's eye or your subconscious, whatever you want to see is, are patterns, shapes, and colors. Now, I don't know what you see, but I know what I see. Sometimes it's geometric. Sometimes it's just a bathing kind of spiritual sort of, I'm flying towards a light. Sometimes it's swirling more kind of like marbling. Sometimes it's jagged. Recently, I saw sort of sparkles, which I'd never seen before. And it's basically changing, I suppose, your mental state, your worried, anxious mental state into. Into color, shape, and pattern. And to me, it's like a total brain reset. It's like, clears the cash, you know, clears the totally.

[Elizabeth Day]

And you're the creative director. And some of the meditations, you'll hear Rosamund's voice, and you have a very beautiful voice for that purpose. But I just want to thank you for it because I've used it every day since I got sent it.

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, wow.

[Elizabeth Day]

And exactly. In that way, it really revitalizes, refreshes, makes me feel so much more in touch with creativity and calm.

[Rosamund Pike]

That's such a nice compliment. Thank you.

[Elizabeth Day]

No easy segue to your failures, but that's where we're going next. Your first failure is your failure to learn Chinese, which will come as a surprise to many because many of us thought you could speak Mandarin.

[Rosamund Pike]

Well, I have a family who speak Chinese. My partner is very interested in China and has been for a long time. I'm fascinated by China. I have two children who speak Chinese. A large part of their early childhood, the whole house would be speaking Chinese, and I still can't speak it. And in lockdown, I started to try and have lessons. And then when I came out of lockdown, it got so busy. And now I have all this credit for being an actress who, you know, has a high profile and is very interested in China, and I'm credited with being able to speak Chinese and I can't. And the only thing I can say is something I said on the Graham Norton show, which is a sort of thing they call a chengy, which is a sort of idiom, a saying, and it's a very good saying. It's sort of like about not wasting your time. And it's sort of, you know, don't bother doing like that. It's like taking your trousers off to fart. And I said this and this clip from the Graham Norton Show, Knockdown went viral all over China. And I am now known in China as the Fart Lady. I am the Fart Lady. People will come up to my face and say, oh, you're the fart Lady. But when you've had. I've had all the opportunity to learn this language. It's been going on around me. Netflix has been on in Chinese, Peppa Pig has been on in Chinese, and I still can't bloody speak it.

[Elizabeth Day]

Can you say anything more than the Far lady idiom?

[Rosamund Pike]

I mean, yes, I can say a few things. I know a few animals.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay.

[Rosamund Pike]

I know some. I know some. You know what they say in. In Chinese, of your smiling for a photograph, you say, which is aubergine.

[Elizabeth Day]

Oh, my goodness, that is a great fact.

[Rosamund Pike]

Aubergine. This year I thought I'm going to. I'm going to actually set my mind to it because I think it's just embarrassing that I get a lot of credit for being able to do it and I can't actually do it.

[Elizabeth Day]

I mean, it is infamously meant to be probably the hardest language to learn.

[Rosamund Pike]

Well, I said I'm interested in the brain, and it definitely works on a different part of your brain because, you know, you have these. It's a tonal language, right? So you know the word if you have ma, right? You can have mad, meaning horse. I probably got it wrong as well, but you can have ma, ma, ma, ma. And those are four completely different words. So, you know, woe batai, that you get the wrong. There was an NT live, I think Or a play of something went out in China. Not of our play, but it was something like a Greek tragedy, something like Electra or something, you know. You know, with matricide in. Or something really serious. And instead of the word for mother, which is ma, they used the word his horse at the end. Instead of my mother. My mother. It was my horse. My horse. And I have got these two sons who. Who have. Who are this bridge into a world that I could never be. I could never experience China as I can now through. Through them. But the fact that I get such a lot of credit for it, and I can't actually do it. Have you ever had that where you'll get. You get a lot of credit for something that you. You actually sort of think.

[Elizabeth Day]

I don't think I get the credit

[Rosamund Pike]

in the first place.

[Elizabeth Day]

I used to be able to speak Russian, and I'm very sad that I've lost all facilities to do that because I didn't practice when I came back. So now I've got one.

[Rosamund Pike]

Yeah. So you feel a sort of shame. There's a kind of shame involved, isn't there?

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes, and I do some. I can still say. Do you speak Russian? And I can still say the word for monuments, which is one of my favorite ones.

[Rosamund Pike]

What is it?

[Elizabeth Day]

Dosto primicati. Nisti.

[Rosamund Pike]

Yeah, say it again.

[Elizabeth Day]

Dosto primiciationisti.

[Rosamund Pike]

Prematurechinisti. That's the way

[Elizabeth Day]

it's either heritage or monuments. Anyway, that can be your next task.

[Rosamund Pike]

Okay. No, I'm not gonna learn Russian, but I'll come back with some. But I mean, there are lovely things in Chinese. It's probably like in Russian. There are meanings like a laptop is a dian nao, which is an electric brain. And there are words like that in Chinese, which I just. I might have got the tones wrong. So if a Chinese listener. I apologize. It could easily be a totally different word. But for English, it's fine.

[Elizabeth Day]

When was the first time you can remember being fascinated with language?

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, I mean, first it was accents. I was fascinated by accents because I grew up in Earl's Court, and there was, you know, just so many accents. It was very Australian at that time. It was much rougher than it is now. There were just so many accents. There was a big homeless problem, so we'd often. In our block of flats, we'd often come out and there'd be people sleeping rough in the corridors, and I just was exposed to so many different sounds, and I loved that. And I always wanted to try and work out because it felt like character to me. Accent was always characteristic. Well, I heard my parents singing in other languages, of course. Yes, there's a lot of operas in Italian or a lot of song is in French.

[Elizabeth Day]

You know those times late at night when you're scrolling and you see something online that you've been looking for and you just need to buy it right there and then you click on the link, you add it to cart before hitting checkout. But then that sinking feeling as you realize you don't have your card anywhere near and don't want to get out of bed. But that's when you see it. That purple pay button that has all of your information saved, making checking out as simple as a quick tap of your screen. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and has so many benefits. You can set up your own design studio, use Shopify's AI tools that write product descriptions and even enhance your product photography. You can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. See fewer carts go abandoned and more sales go. Sign up for your 1 pound per month trial today at shopify.co.uk fail. Go to shopify.co.uk fail.

[Rosamund Pike]

Are you dreaming of the perfect prom? But there's just one thing holding you back. Speak English. Hello, welcome to Ethnosync Ethnic modification. What is this place? We help you reach your true potential. How are you feeling? It's good to be Hawaii. Hey, new girl.

[Elizabeth Day]

Hey. Look at what you've done to yourself.

[Rosamund Pike]

For a new plant to grow, the seed has to die. Slanted. Rated R Only in theaters March 13th. Side effects may occur. I'm Craig Melvin. Cheers.

[Elizabeth Day]

Cheers.

[Corinne]

Cheers.

[Rosamund Pike]

I've always been a glass half full

[Elizabeth Day]

kind of guy, and now I'm talking

[Rosamund Pike]

to some people who look at the

[Elizabeth Day]

world that way, too. Some really fascinating folks who share their defining moments, their triumphs, their challenges. Their stories are funny and quite candid.

[Rosamund Pike]

So I hope you'll join me each week.

[Elizabeth Day]

And who knows, you might just come away with your own glass half full.

[Rosamund Pike]

Search Glass Half Full with Craig Melvin From Today on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Elizabeth Day]

Alongside the shame that you have this label that you don't feel you're living up to, is there also a sense that because you're a high achiever that you feel you're letting yourself down by not being perfect at something that's incredibly difficult?

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, well, I'm so far from being perfect. That might come later. If I sort of got to a level of sort of mediocrity, at the moment, I'm at a sort of base, at a sort of such a level of null. I don't think I'm letting myself down yet. I suppose if I now try and say, okay, I'm going to commit to having five hours of Chinese a week, and then we meet again in a year's time, and all I can still say is, tu kuze fung PI, don't take your trousers off to fart, then I might feel like a failure. Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely my hardest critic. I think most women are. I can be so hard on myself for quite small things, and then I can let myself off the hook for something much bigger. It's a weird thing. I don't know if anyone listening relates to that. So, you know, I can. Recently I was meeting the Prime Minister in China, which was sort of an unexpected part of my visit there. And, you know, I've thought really carefully about what I'm gonna wear. And I wear this beautiful Huishang Zhang suit. A Chinese designer, lives in London. I thought, this is perfect. And it's a lovely mint green suit. And, you know, I'm there early, I'm on time. Lateness is something I'm not very good at, or one of my failings, I should say, one of my failures. And I'm there promptly on time, with enough time to be very relaxed. The Prime Minister is entering the building, and he's coming up the stairs. He's with his entourage. In a minute, we're gonna transfer to the other room. And I'm feeling. I thought, I've done this, I've jet lagged. But I'm here, I'm in my nice suit, and I look down, and on my right thigh is a great big smear of chocolate. And chocolate is one of my weaknesses. Chocolate is. I have a sort of. I might almost say an addiction to dark chocolate. Anyway, it's obviously been. I mean, it sounds so mucky, doesn't it? It sounds so mucky. And there's this smear of chocolate. I mean, I am mortified. I'm like, oh, oh, my God. I'm letting down. I'm letting Britain down. I'm letting down the entire country. I'm letting the designer down. I'm letting everyone down. And people were trying to say, you know, no one's going to see it. It's tiny. To me, it was sort of huge and increasing dramatically every second, you know, trying to wipe it off. Just Makes it worse. So I think, okay, well, I would turn the. Maybe I can turn the skirt around. And then I'm. And then like. Well, then I'm going to let the designer down because it's obviously like she doesn't know where a zip goes. You know, the zip is obviously at the back or the side, not at the front, anyway.

[Elizabeth Day]

And a brown scene at the back when it's the lady on your fart. Lady.

[Rosamund Pike]

I mean, fart lady having a chocolate smear on her ass is not great. But still, it's all for the photograph, isn't it? So when you see those photographs, you can imagine a small smear of brown.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's brilliant.

[Rosamund Pike]

On my right buttock.

[Elizabeth Day]

Wait, so you're not good at letting your. Is that a small thing in your.

[Rosamund Pike]

So, no, that would be sort of. No, I would be quite. I would find that. I found that quite difficult. But then something else, like there was a sort of moment where I was presenting at the baftas with Dominic Cooper and I was all dressed up and we were at the BAFTAs and Dominic and I had tried to sort of rewrite something, which is the absolute. You mustn't. Unless you're a comedian. Unless you're a professional comedian. Don't try and rewrite it. It will sound trite. All the writing is kind of boring, but just do it. Just do the thing that it says. Don't try and be clever. Don't try and be funny unless you are funny. Right? We tried to rewrite it. It went very wrong. I was so embarrassed by how badly it had gone wrong that I just tried to get to the end and I ended up opening the envelope before announcing the nominees. Now, this is on live television. This is quite a major mistake, right? Everybody was mortified. For me, totally mortified. Tom Ford was the next presenter, who is the most immaculate gentleman you could possibly meet. I mean, there is no one more perfect than Tom Ford. There's never a hair out of place. He does everything with such elegance. He looked at me with so much pity coming off. I mean, so much pity. Benevolent pity. Which is the worst, right? The worst. And I thought, I don't care. Why don't I care? I don't care.

[Elizabeth Day]

I've just.

[Rosamund Pike]

I've embarrassed myself massively so. And I don't really know to this day. I think there was a huge relief in that. This is not something I feel I'm good at. I'm not good at being myself on stage. I'm meant to be another character. This might mean I Never have to do this again.

[Elizabeth Day]

Gosh, that's enlightened. Do you watch back your film and TV work?

[Rosamund Pike]

Sometimes? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what, Watch back years later? Yes. No. Okay.

[Elizabeth Day]

No, but at the time. Sometimes.

[Rosamund Pike]

Sometimes I do. Sometimes I sort of. Somebody will say, oh, I saw Diane other day. And I think, oh, my God, I must have been awful. I'll have a quick look on YouTube and have a look at a scene and think, God, I'd do that better now. But I can sort of let it go Sometimes. I do do that because I think in my head it's probably much worse than it was. I was just so inexperienced. It was such massive exposure.

[Elizabeth Day]

I mean, straight out of university into that.

[Rosamund Pike]

And also so unworldly compared to girls. Now, I think you turned up to

[Elizabeth Day]

the audition in one of your mother's taffeta gowns.

[Rosamund Pike]

Yes, yes, I did. I did. I did. I thought it was a beautiful evening dress.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Rosamund Pike]

And I didn't know that Bond girls sort of wear sort of three pieces of string or something. That kind of looks more like, I should be going down that. The bobsled race at the Winter Olympics. You know, more of a. You know, the people who go on the tray in that sort of sleek. Like Rawanze. I should have been more like that.

[Elizabeth Day]

I know that I could get derailed here because there are so many of your roles that I want to ask you about.

[Rosamund Pike]

Jane, we can. You can always cut it. Aren't you.

[Elizabeth Day]

Can I go, Jane in Pride and Prejudice? I thought you did such a phenomenal job there of breathing new life into a character who runs the risk so often of being boring. She's like the boring character.

[Rosamund Pike]

She's boring. I just think she chooses to see the best in people. And it was a kind of. You know, it's not that she doesn't have Lizzie's opinions, it's just that she finds life more relaxing if she chooses to be optimistic. That's how I saw her.

[Elizabeth Day]

And there's this beautiful scene directed by Joe Wright. Maybe we'll come on to him in a bit where you and Lizzie, Keira Knightley are under the bed sheets, under the bedsheets.

[Rosamund Pike]

And he's been copied so many times since then. He always could do intimacy so well. He could capture it on screen. And it was. I remember when we'd filmed that, and him and the dp, Roman Osen, they'd seen the rushes the next day, and they were just. They were so in love with those rushes. They just said, it's just magical. But he was always very, very good at being. And it's what people still talk about, you know, the little looks and glances, the hand squeezes, that he's very good at feeling, at transmitting feelings on screen in cinema.

[Elizabeth Day]

And the beauty of the mundane, I

[Rosamund Pike]

think, as well, is just so evident in that film. Ye.

[Elizabeth Day]

Jack Reacher also. You were great. Now, were you pregnant? Pregnant, yes. So it's some quite careful camera angles.

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And I was, you know, and it's funny because, you know, it was funny because I was increasing in size, obviously, during the filming, and the costume department, I realized one day there was a dress. And I said, is this a new dress? And they said, no, no, no, no, it's not a new dress. I said, I'm sure it is. It's fitting much better. They said, no, no, it's the same one. And I looked at the label and it was still the same size. And then I looked more closely at the label and I thought, has that been cut and restitched? And they had. They'd cut it out and restitched it with the same size so that I wouldn't feel bad that I'd gone up a size. Wow. But that is how, you know, people are so trying to placate a woman's ego because they think the film industry is so much about, you know, I mustn't get bigger. I mustn't get bigger. But I was pregnant. Right. I mean, you want to be getting bigger.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's such a revealing anecdote, isn't it?

[Rosamund Pike]

Yeah, I think it is.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, before we get onto your next failure, Saltburn, I mean, what a joyously hilarious performance. Were you having fun filming it?

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, I had the best time. I mean, Emerald Fennell writes the most wonderful dialogue, and it just sort of drips out of her. She's so good at analyzing herself, actually. She's so good at analyzing. I suppose the mean, the unsavory, the sort of the risque parts of herself that most of us try and keep hidden. And she just says, well, we all think that. Really, you know, she sort of says, I mean, you know, I prefer thin people, don't you? I mean, you know that whatever, it will come out of her. And you don't know whether she means it, whether she's just trying to shock, whether she's trying to provoke. But all of it is valid because she means. That means she writes a character like Elspeth who says, you know, I can't stand ugly people. Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

There's a confidence to the Irreverence, which.

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, see, that's such a good way of putting it. Yeah. It struck me when I watched it.

[Elizabeth Day]

I was like, gosh, that's so. I would never be brave enough to make that choice because I'm constantly anxiously questioning. And there's something so aspirational about that. Confident.

[Rosamund Pike]

Yeah. I mean, you just. Yeah. Elspeth was wonderful. And I love. I mean, it was just so fun for me to sort of play up that part of Englishness, the sort of faux, you know, darling, you know, tell me about your mother. God, is she drinking? Oh, you know, and you can just feel the relish of the sort of story later. It was such a specific social commentary, Thorburn. And it was just. And it was done with such a light touch. And she didn't have to explain it or over explain it. Everybody got it. Even the way she treats the house with such sort of casual disdain. And you sort of whip past these sort of amazing paintings and she sort of barely gives them a sort of close up or a sort of, you know, half a frame on the camera. And that's one of the mystifying things about, you know, having been someone who's sort of tried and sort of got it wrong, has moved, you know, has been in some of those circles. You know, when you were at Oxford, you know, I was invited sometimes and would always. I would somehow always be wrong because I'd made too much of an effort or I'd tried or I'd. I wasn't sort of. I was overdressed or I was always slightly wrong, you know, and there it's sort of. You can be, you know, squalid as you like, but then you'll wear black tie for dinner. Yes. And you just. As someone from the outside, you wouldn't sort of know that.

[Elizabeth Day]

Did you ever feel or do you ever feel cool?

[Rosamund Pike]

Cool? I feel cool all the time. Do you? Yeah, I love that.

[Elizabeth Day]

Obs.

[Rosamund Pike]

Yeah, I feel cool.

[Elizabeth Day]

What does cool mean to you?

[Rosamund Pike]

Well, I think it means that you can go your own way. I think you can go your own way. You don't give too many fucks. You can think originally. I think you've got some attitude. Yes, I think I do feel cool.

[Elizabeth Day]

God, I love that. Because one of your iconic roles is obviously Amy and Gone Girl, and there's this whole passage in Gone Girl, the novel, and translated brilliantly to the movie adaptation, about being the cool girl trope. But I love that idea of cool girlness being. Embracing your authentic eccentricity in a way.

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, you mean not not what Amy says.

[Elizabeth Day]

Not what Amy says.

[Rosamund Pike]

No, no, Amy is. No, because Amy is such a sort of, you know, she's such. She's grown up under the wing of misogyny, you know, so she's, she's. She's cool in the eyes of a. You know, it's like when you've grown up with a sort of sexist father, you end up just becoming a woman who's there to please a man. Luckily, I did not grow up with a sexist father. I think that's one of the hardest things to overcome actually, as a woman, is sort of freeing yourself from that sexist perspective of yourself.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Rosamund Pike]

Actually, I think cool is about being apart, is being okay with being apart, is keeping the sort of temperature chill when not having to kind of join in with the latest craze or kind of follow the band and anticipate a trend. Anticipate something, don't just follow it, you know, I think I. Yeah, it's funny. Oh God, look at all that strong feeling that came out. That's great. I think that's my own brand of it because I think as a kid I didn't feel cool in the normal sort of trope of it. You know, I was. Never had the right clothes. But now I don't sort of think that's about. That's actually what it is. I don't think that is actually what cool is. But in terms of how a teenager thinks, I was never. No, I mean, I had like buckle over sandals when everyone else had trainers. I mean, it was like mortifying. But now I think that sort of gave me some character because, you know, you try going in buckle over start, right sandals when everyone's got the latest trick at it, you know, or when everyone's having a tracksuit, you know, and someone's having a bouncy castle party and you know, I hear everyone's wearing tracksuits. My mom goes out and buys some banana yellow velour and sews me one, which I can. Has such a tight funnel neck I can barely get it over my head. And as a child I used to get very, very rosy cheeks. I mean, it was like I was like a sort of of little belisha beacon sticking out of this banana yellow velour, you know, so that is not cool. And yet it's so funny because recently a picture surfaced of that party and actually this bloody tracksuit that caused me so much mortification was really cool. Now you look back and you think my mum actually made me something really original. But it Wasn't right.

[Elizabeth Day]

That's so beautiful. That idea of that young Rosamund and the picture resurfacing and making people. When I use Luminae, I get a lot of childhood selves.

[Rosamund Pike]

You see people.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes.

[Rosamund Pike]

That's interesting. I usually just see pattern. I know.

[Elizabeth Day]

Now I'm jealous.

[Rosamund Pike]

You're more enlightened.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay, your second failure. Talking about the roles that you embodied and were such a success in. But your second failure is your failure to be an action star.

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh my God, as you put it. Yeah. I mean, it started well with James Bond.

[Elizabeth Day]

It did start well.

[Rosamund Pike]

There was a promising start, yes. You know, I was picked to be in the biggest action franchise of all time. So then when I was making Pride and Prejudice and I was having great fun in my cornfields in my bonnet, I get a call to be in an action franchise. They're making a cinema version, a narrative version of the video game Doom. And I think in my bonnet, in my field of hay bales, yeah, I can do anything. I can jump on this hay bale in my crinoline. So I can certainly go and kill some zombies on Mars. And originally it was with Ray Winston, that project, and then the whole thing was reimagined and he was the sort of leader of this kind of bunch of marines going out to this facility in Mars. And I was a scientist out there. And then for whatever reason, Ray Winston didn't end up doing it. And he was replaced by Dwayne Johnson, the Rock. So suddenly I'm in this film with the Rock and I realize how utterly ill equipped I am to be an action star. The first day I meet Dwayne Johnson, who couldn't be nicer, but is just a completely different beast from 24 year old RP who had a team of like macho guys around him. You know, there were people pepping him up, there was like weights on the set. There was like every time a gun was brought out, it was like there was a kind of, you know, it was like a holy relic, you know, for the kind of, for the, for the Doom fans. And you know, there was the sort of whole kind of routine before a take of like, I don't even know what it was. It felt more like a sort of Maori, you know, all blacks kind of, you know, pre game sort of warm up something. And it was, there was water spray and I was just out of my comfort zone, out of my league, out of my depth. And the film was an absolute bomb. I mean, I probably could have ended my career. I mean, it was just probably one of the worst films ever made. I mean, it was a catastrophe. I think, as I say, I don't read the reviews, but you get the sense, like you're lucky to have survived that one. But then it wasn't career ending for the Rock or you or me. As it turned out. It was probably after that that I started to do my research because I didn't know enough about video games. I wasn't the right kind of girl to be in that. I didn't want to be the kind of sex symbol. So it's okay, I guess, to fail at being an action star. If to be an action star in those days was to be the kind of absolute bombshell sex symbol. I just wasn't that person. And so as the girl, I think in a film like that, if the film is a bomb, you do think, shit, it's cause I wasn't hot enough. It's cause I wasn't hot enough. You know, I wasn't. It's not the total, obviously the failure of the film, but, you know, if loads of guys say that film is shit, your part in it is obviously to sort of, I don't know, play your character, but also kind of look hot. And I don't think I got that or took that seriously or kind of worked out for the gym body that, you know, a better female action star would have done. You know, all those things that nobody also, nobody helped me. Nobody said, you know, nowadays I'm sure an actress cast in that would have a personal trainer, would have a sort of. There would be a conversation about sort of, you know, you're playing Lara Croft. This is how she should look.

[Elizabeth Day]

Would you ever want to be an action hero now if you were offered it?

[Rosamund Pike]

No. But if I'm gonna be one, I wanna bloody succeed at it.

[Elizabeth Day]

Okay. The high achiever. Did your agent, Dallas Smith, who picked you up from the National Youth Theater.

[Rosamund Pike]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

You've described it as one of the. Probably the best professional relationship of your life. Did he say Rosamund? You know, this was really bad and I'm not sure what we're gonna do to.

[Rosamund Pike]

No, he's so diplomatic. You would have just said, well, darling, I thought you were, you know, you were. You were fantastic. Should we open another bottle?

[Elizabeth Day]

And that's why it's a great professional relationship.

[Rosamund Pike]

Now he would have the confidence to be more honest. I think I'll have to ask him. Well, you know, you might say, well, you know, darling, I mean, I always said I'd seen it. In fact, I've never seen. Infamous is the gossip show that's smart. We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down top Model. We talk about Jenna Jameson and how she dominated the 90s. You know, she's horny and she's in charge.

[Elizabeth Day]

She just was very smart about marketing herself.

[Rosamund Pike]

We talk about celebrities who maybe shouldn't

[Elizabeth Day]

be celebrities, like the Beckham guy.

[Rosamund Pike]

Brooklyn is their first kid.

[Elizabeth Day]

He's had a little bit of the Nepo baby curse.

[Rosamund Pike]

We investigate orgasm cults.

[Elizabeth Day]

A woman's erotic power can unlock many other powers in her life.

[Rosamund Pike]

And of course, we discuss people who have gotten into lots of trouble. My name is Molly McLaughlin. I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims. She was defrauding the elderly and her tagline was the only thing I'm guilty

[Elizabeth Day]

of is being shah mazing.

[Rosamund Pike]

Listen to Infamous, the gossip show that's smart. The show's called Infamous.

[Corinne]

I want to tell you guys about a podcast that is near and dear to my heart. And I cannot believe it already came out a year ago. And you can all go listen to it ad free by subscribing to the binge podcast channel.

[Rosamund Pike]

What podcast, Corinne? Tell us.

[Corinne]

Oh, it's called Blink Jake Handle story. I created it about a man named Jake who I met who is the only survivor of a terminal brain illness brought on by heroin use. But there is a lot of mystery and medical malpractice and true crime elements that are very shocking and surprising and even some supernatural elements.

[Rosamund Pike]

So this is definitely an amazing story

[Corinne]

and it's very unique.

[Rosamund Pike]

Did such an incredible job telling the story and sharing it with the world.

[Corinne]

So if you have not listened to

[Rosamund Pike]

it yet, my goodness, where have you been? Because blank is is so freaking good.

[Corinne]

Thank you. Search for Blink wherever you listen and subscribers to the binge will get the entire season ad free. Plus you'll get exclusive access to the over 60 other true crime stories on the binge podcast channel. Hit subscribe on Apple podcasts or head to getthebinge.com Sabrina Corrine I have been listening to a new show from the binge called Fatal Fantasy. I am obsessed.

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, my. Wait, I need to know more. Tell me. Tell me everything.

[Corinne]

Okay, I will. It's very shocking. It's this like ultra weird crime story of a murder for hire plot that. Yeah, wait for it. Leveraged the dynamics of the underworld and underworld being a medieval fantasy game.

[Rosamund Pike]

Wait, so it's live action role playing gone wrong?

[Corinne]

Horribly wrong. And you can binge all episodes now.

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, my God, that sounds so good. I know what I'm doing on my

[Corinne]

drive home today, search for Fatal Fantasy and subscribe to the binge podcast channel on Apple podcast [e-mail] and then once you're done, you can listen to one of the over 60 true crime and investigative podcasts a part of the channel while you wait for the next month's drop.

[Rosamund Pike]

I really need to know what happens.

[Corinne]

Selfishly, you do, so that we can talk about it. So whenever you listen, search for Fatal Fantasy and hit subscribe to the binge to get all episodes all at once ad free.

[Elizabeth Day]

You did carry on to have this stutter career and your final failure but one.

[Rosamund Pike]

But I'm going to keep because you

[Elizabeth Day]

were generous enough to give me four

[Rosamund Pike]

when you only used three. Oh, yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

I'm so happy you're going to talk about this, Rosamund.

[Rosamund Pike]

What is it?

[Elizabeth Day]

My failure to get married, as you put it.

[Rosamund Pike]

Oh, my failure to get married. Yes. Well, it's a big deal for a 28 year old, isn't it? When you sort of, you know, your sort of template for womanhood. You're doing the right thing. Got a lovely boyfriend, you know, he's asked you to marry him, you're getting engaged and you know there's going to be a wedding and you know, it's the right age. I remember him even asking me, you know, saying, are you, are you pleased that you're getting married before you're 30? And I thought, oh, I hadn't thought about that. But yes, actually, I think I am. You know, it feels sort of right, it feels romantic. And then the funny thing is when you don't get married and people think the absolute worst.

[Elizabeth Day]

This is the film director Joe Wright.

[Rosamund Pike]

This is film director Joe Wright, who we met on Pride and Prejudice. We had a huge love affair. We were very, very in love. We had massive masses of adventures. We were very wild. And then it all fell apart. And when it falls apart, everybody thinks, oh, my God, you know, what is it? It must be an affair. Polygamy, you know, drug scandal. I mean, I just, I mean, I don't even know what people think, but people definitely think the worst. And so they look at you, you get the benevolent pity again, all from all angles. And it is devastating. It's utterly devastating, but it's not devastating in any of the ways that people imagine. And people are speculating onto why it happens. And, you know, it was far less spectacular than any of the sort of, you know, than a polygamy story or a secret family or a, you know, whatever. But you know, for a while it was just awful because you don't want to go, you don't want to have Christmas because the last Christmas was, you know, with this person and suddenly you don't want to be around people who are being happy, who are happy and who are, you know, celebrating with their loved ones and, you know, with people who know them better than anyone. And, you know, even to sort of retreat back to your parents feels like a bit of a failure because you should be embarking on your own life and having them round to your place and, you know, so going back with your tail between your legs is sort of. It feels a bit. Well, it feels like a failure as an adult, Big adult failure. And also, you know, you really love someone and they don't love you anymore. That's also not, not great.

[Elizabeth Day]

Is that what happened?

[Rosamund Pike]

I think so. Oh, pardon.

[Elizabeth Day]

How far do you. Because I know the invitations have gone out. It must be weird that strangers know this, know this.

[Rosamund Pike]

Well, I mean, they. That's a story that's again, speculation by the press. I'm afraid that that's not true. We'd asked people to save the date. We hadn't had invitations sent out and we'd had a lovely plan of a wedding in Italy. And. But the freedom from that afterwards is that you sort of think, okay, so people have, you know, you haven't played, you haven't achieved the thing. I suppose the template, you know, he was a man who was eight years older than me. He was sort of. He was successful, he was good looking, he was funny, he was great. He was great. And then it doesn't happen. And, and you think, oh, no. But then you realize that actually you're free in a way because you can, you think there are so many other templates of what life can look like for a woman. I mean, there are so many other ways that love can look like, you know, and here I am, I'm not married, but I have a family and I've been with someone for 14, 15 years. Happily not married. Yes. To want to create in a different way for me with the next big relationship, next big love of my life. It was more important to, to cement that or sort of mark that with starting a family than having a wedding. Because also I thought I'm the center of attention. So often I don't need a wedding. You know, I don't even know if that is what having a wedding is about. I'm actually a great guest and I love weddings. I love. I find them really moving. I always Cry. I think making vows to someone is really beautiful. But I get a lot of opportunity in my life to wear beautiful clothes. And so that part of it, which I think for a lot of women is so magical, rightly so, you know, I didn't necessarily need that. But, you know, for any girls out there who are ending a sort of major relationship, I mean, you just cannot. You know, people say all these platitudes like, you know, time is a great healer, and it's awful. You just want them all to go away and shut up. But actually, other things come and then you feel cool because actually you've done it your own way and you've survived. Which is the best part of all, is that you've, well weathered it and you've survived it and you're still here. You know, that's the thing. That's the thing that all failure actually is. That's the biggest part, is when you say, I'm fucking still here and I've done it and this is in my past. And you can look at me with pity, with, you know, with sort of embarrassment for me. And actually, I don't feel any of that anymore. And that's the freedom. That's the freedom. And it doesn't come straight away. It absolutely does not come straight away. And if you, you know, now I can sit and talk to you about this without a kind of terrible knot in my stomach. And I think until you. Until you can do that, you're probably not over it.

[Elizabeth Day]

That was so brilliant. And it's like you're in my head because I often say that every failure will teach you something meaningful in the fullness of time. And it can be that sometimes the only thing meaningful it teaches you is that you are strong enough to survive it. But that, in and of itself is so unbelievably powerful and liberating and. And I went through a divorce in my mid-30s. And similarly, I felt like such a failure. And I felt so much shame and embarrassment and all of that and heartbreak. And then I experienced exactly what you did. That idea of, well, life hasn't gone according to plan, the plan I sort of set myself. But having ripped that up, there's a blank canvas now to decide what I really want and to be in tune with one's own true desires. And so often social conditioning gets in

[Rosamund Pike]

the way of that.

[Elizabeth Day]

The idea of being married by a certain time, certain age. And I'm so pleased to hear that

[Rosamund Pike]

you are where you are with it. And did you think your marriage was. Did you Think you married the wrong person or it just now?

[Elizabeth Day]

I do.

[Rosamund Pike]

You do think it was the wrong choice? Yeah. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

Well, by the same token, I don't believe in regret for that hoary old reason that I wouldn't be where I am now and I wouldn't have learned the necessary lessons, I don't think, unless I'd done that. And I certainly didn't think he was the wrong person at the time. I know some people have that feeling on their wedding day, and I didn't really.

[Rosamund Pike]

I think my partner now is famous for whispering to a bridegroom before he enters the church. You are the only person who thinks this is a good idea. What a legend. So you know, he's always been a relentless truth teller. Does one ever regret having a big love affair? I don't think you do.

[Elizabeth Day]

No, I agree.

[Rosamund Pike]

Even if it goes to shit and you feel. I mean, you feel. I mean, it is awful. It is awful. It's.

[Elizabeth Day]

Heartbreak is horrendous. It is a kind of grief. It is so difficult. It's so difficult. And because that person still exists and they've chosen not to love you, it's just heart rending. I'm not saying this about you specifically. I'm saying one.

[Rosamund Pike]

Fine.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yes, of course.

[Rosamund Pike]

Exactly. You know.

[Elizabeth Day]

Have you seen him since?

[Rosamund Pike]

Not really. No. Not really. I mean, we once found that we were sat next to each other on an airplane coming back from Toronto Film Festival. And we got on this airplane and it was like if it was a movie, right? If it was a movie, that would have been the sort of, you know, that would be. The rom com ending is, oh, they sit next to each other on an airplane and they talk all night long on the flight back to London and then they get back together. Right. But actually we talked all the way. And that was our only conversation since ending. And it was lovely.

[Elizabeth Day]

What an ending to that story. Okay, I know that we're running out of time, but I want to talk to you about your sons because you live in this male household.

[Rosamund Pike]

Yes, I do live in a male household.

[Elizabeth Day]

And your sons, are they 13 and 11?

[Rosamund Pike]

They are, yeah. 13 and 11, yeah.

[Elizabeth Day]

What has being the mother of two boys taught you?

[Rosamund Pike]

I really think life gives you what you need. I do think. You know, I always imagined myself having a daughter. You know, you could say I have a. There's a failure that I haven't had a daughter. You know, there's a. There's a sort of. I have a very close relationship with my mother. She had a very close relationship with her mother, you know, there's been this mother daughter thing that's been handed down, and I don't have that. And I do sometimes have a pang about that. People say, oh, you know, your sons leave you, your daughters never do. But the people are so full of doom.

[Elizabeth Day]

Who are you chatting to? Someone from Cran Crow.

[Rosamund Pike]

I did do a bit of a voice, didn't I? I love the brothers. I love the relationship of brothers. I think I always wanted brothers myself. But to watch the bond between two brothers and the fights and the sudden, you know, rage that can dissolve into laughter that I completely don't understand. I mean, I have no idea what's going on. You know, they fight each other, they hurt each other, and then they're laughing. I don't know what happens. I don't know why it happens. Only child doesn't understand. But I love it. And I love the fact that it's pushing me to be a sort of adventuress, which I'm quite a coward, really. And I like to play brave people because I like to pretend that I'm not. And I think I'm constantly in battle with my own fear. And I'm always pushing myself because I think I hate the part of myself that is fearful. And I really don't want to be that person. So I'm in a family of kind of. Of adventurers who do extreme sports. And so I. I try and have a go. You know, they like kite surfing, they like skiing, they like scuba diving, they like, you know, their football. I mean, I'd never touched a ball with my feet till I'd had sons.

[Elizabeth Day]

And that'll be the episode title.

[Rosamund Pike]

I mean, I barely touched a ball, to be honest, but, you know, trying to kick one with your feet, you know, they've taught me so much. So much.

[Elizabeth Day]

You told me before we started recording that you're very sensitive to smell. How's that with some adolescent boys?

[Rosamund Pike]

Yeah, well, I'm. At the moment, we're okay. I'm a big, you know, I'm a big sort of. I put deodorant everywhere. I put. Leave it out. You know, free to. Feel free to use it like a basket, you know, basket. You know, you leave. I think when they're older, I'll leave condoms around. I mean, it's sort of, you know, I think you have to just make things available. And I said, you know, I said, don't you like it, like, when someone comes into your home? Don't you think it's nice to come in and, like, smell like when I'm cooking, isn't it nice to come home from school and smell that? And they say, yes. And I said, isn't it? If you go in somewhere and it really smells like, do you want someone to come into your home and go, oof, God, their house smells bad? I said, I really don't want that. It's one of the things I'm really. I think I'm really. It's my pride. I think my pride can't take it. But, you know, it's like. But then all the blame goes to the socks and it's smelling. It's not the socks, it's your feet. You know, it's your feet. Don't blame the tools, don't blame the things. Get in the shower, wash your feet. And then the socks won't smell very good. Go, you know, dry the football boots, leave them out somewhere, stuff them in newspaper. I've got all the tips, so many DIY tips. I'm really good at smells. I've got alcohol spray, baking soda. I know all this. I know all this stuff. I'm a regular Mrs. Beaton over here.

[Elizabeth Day]

Your. Your final bonus failure is your failure

[Rosamund Pike]

to cook a rabbit, Mrs. Beaton. You see, there we go.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's a seamless link.

[Rosamund Pike]

Yeah. You see, it's like. We could have written it. No, I'm quite ambitious as a cook. As I say, I grew up in quite a small flat and my mum. We didn't have a kitchen that was the kind of kitchen where more than one person couldn't be in our kitchen where I grew up. So what my mum was doing in the kitchen was always a bit of a mystery because it was too small to have anyone else in there. So she would always sort of want to be alone in there and she would conjure. Amazing. She was a lovely cook. And I always wanted to do that because I think I have a sort of need to nourish people. I like to nourish people. And I. Anytime I've ever been to a family home that's got a kitchen that you can sort of sit around a table, I've rather envied it. And so when I grew up and became an adult, I really wanted to be someone who people would think, let's go into her house. Cause she's a great cook and I want to sit there and chew the fat and have long dinners and I want to sort of provide. But it means that I can be quite ambitious. And it was in my sort of mid-20s, probably around the Pride and Prejudice Time and we'd been in Italy and I'd had sort of all this experience of sort of delicious sort of rabbit and it's something you don't really find in England to eat very much. But anyway I thought I'm going to cook a rabbit and it's going to. I saw this recipe and it was all about it falling off the bone and being sort of, you know, cook it for slow. Anyway, by the time my guests arrived there was no way this thing was fucking falling anywhere near off the bone. It was like gripping onto that bone and I was distraug. I couldn't stand the failure as I perceived it of and the kinder people were and the more people said it looks delicious the more I self flagellated and loathed the fact that I was just a total incompetent failure. The thing I really wanted to be good at, you know, I wanted to be the earth mother. And I don't think maybe I am but you know, I tried but it's the sort of. That's what I mean. It's a small event that has catastrophic self flagellatory consequences. Because you want it too badly, right? You want the thing, you want it to be perfect, you want everybody to say that that meal was the best they ever had because it gave them such a lovely feeling. And then the wine we had and we Talked through till 5 o' clock in the morning and we had the best time and of course we probably did. And so since then I've tended to sort of try and I'm much more kind of fly by night by my cooking, about my cooking. I'm kind of, I'm now much more relaxed. Like I don't. I know how to cook, I know how to conjure good flavours. It might be a bit chaotic, it might be a bit late. The thing, the dishes might not come together but I will feed you well and I will kind of give you a good time. I mean it's a bit of a sort of trivial thing, you know, in relation to, you know, my marriage ending and my failure to cook a good dinner. But failure is really all about who you want to be and your failure to meet your own standards. I mean there's public failure obviously, there's like going bankrupt. But there's always a reason, isn't there, why that would happen. And it probably is you trying to be someone you're not even the going bankrupt. It will be that you've pretended that you were thriving when you weren't or you wanted to be Someone who had. You wanted to be perceived to be someone who had more money than you do. Or it's usually about how you want to be perceived.

[Elizabeth Day]

And usually you've inherited that story of what success is from. From someone else or from a society that might not reflect your values. And actually what it says to me. Rosamund Pike, I don't want to eat rabbit. I don't need you to cook anything.

[Rosamund Pike]

Are you vegetarian?

[Elizabeth Day]

No, I'm not.

[Rosamund Pike]

I just don't.

[Elizabeth Day]

Don't like the idea of rabbit.

[Rosamund Pike]

But even falling off the boner, otherwise

[Elizabeth Day]

falling off the bone sounds better than the alternative, like gripping onto the bone, I think, as you put it. But the point I wanted to make is that people want to come for dinner with you because of you. Like, you are enough. You are glorious company.

[Rosamund Pike]

You are enough.

[Elizabeth Day]

Take that and put it in your illuminator. But you are really. I've enjoyed this so much. You're so witty and intelligent and brilliant and this has been a great conversation. And I think that's the thing. Like, actually, we don't need the rabbit, we just need you.

[Rosamund Pike]

You are enough. That's it. That's all we need. You are enough. You have always been enough. You will always be enough. Harder to say than to put an eye on it and then try and say it.

[Elizabeth Day]

I know.

[Rosamund Pike]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Day]

No, that sounds horrible and cringe and I couldn't possibly do that.

[Rosamund Pike]

Well, he did it. He did it.

[Elizabeth Day]

Thank you so, so much for coming on House of Bay.

[Rosamund Pike]

You're welcome. I've enjoyed it. I've. Yes. The Therapy Womb, Toogood and Co Coffee creamers are made with farm fresh cream, real milk and contain 3 grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the 5 grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers for a rich, delicious experience. Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold or frothy, two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers. Real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle.

[Elizabeth Day]

Please do follow how to fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends this is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.