How To Fail with Elizabeth Day

Episode: Sam Ryder – ‘Fame is like giving a dog a treat every single day. You get used to it.’
Release Date: March 26, 2025
Host: Elizabeth Day
Guest: Sam Ryder

Episode Overview

This episode features Sam Ryder, the British singer-songwriter celebrated for his stratospheric rise, notably representing the UK at Eurovision 2022 and scoring a No. 1 album. In this heartfelt and philosophical conversation, Sam explores three pivotal failures: losing a Battle of the Bands, the struggle of maintaining hope and faith under pressure, and dealing with the personal cost of success. He discusses how these failures have shaped his creative drive, spiritual outlook, and commitment to self-acceptance and gratitude.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sam Ryder's Journey: Perseverance and Family Roots

[04:36–08:16]

• Early Life & Supportive Parents: Raised in Essex, Sam credits his parents for instilling hard work and self-belief.

  “All the sort of self belief you got in, you have to have in yourself through those years.” – Sam Ryder [04:36]

• From Carpentry to Music: Worked with his dad, briefly helped build at Wembley Stadium, and played in punk/metal bands.

• Wedding Singer Years:

  • Learned persistence, humility, and musical skill performing at weddings—where “no one cares” unless you truly love the craft.

  “You are anonymous. You are meat in the room… It was a very hard lesson immediately that like, no one cares. You have to do this because you love it and do not expect anything else from anyone.” – Sam Ryder [08:16]

• Key Insight:

  • Artistic fulfillment must be intrinsic—it cannot be transactional. Those years taught Sam to perform for the love of music, not external validation.

2. The “Battle of the Bands” Failure & Redefining Ambition

[13:46–18:44]

• 2019 Setback: While juggling work as a wedding singer and running a café with his partner Lois, Sam joined a Battle of the Bands for a shot to open for Ed Sheeran—but lost.

• Moment of Doubt & Resilience:

  • Felt it might be his “last gig”—a deeply discouraging moment, comforted only by Lois and the sense of being ‘ready’ for whatever would come.

  “It felt like the final nail in the coffin… I remember Lois really comforting me and saying… I am ready. I’m ready for this to happen. And I invite it into my life and I swear… I’ll perform it with the most grace I can.” – Sam Ryder [17:13]

• Support from Lois:

  • Lois never craved fame, but has been pivotal in keeping Sam grounded and loved.

  “[Lois] never wanted us to have… she loved it when I was juicing vegetables, going to sing at weddings and coming home… She’s been so incredible because she knows that this has been such a dream of mine…” – Sam Ryder [18:51]

3. TikTok Breakthrough, Fame, and its Psychological Toll

[20:18–24:08]

• Lockdown & Going Viral:

  • With Lois’s encouragement, Sam posted covers to TikTok—eventually receiving praise and support from global stars like Sia, catapulting his career.

  “…I just made this video, put it online and then was just stirring some pasta… And all of a sudden I checked my phone and it just had gone crazy. And, like, Sia had tagged me in this post, sharing the video…” – Sam Ryder [21:16]

• Fame & Its Price:

  • The whirlwind of recognition felt “like giving a dog a treat every single day… you get used to it, and it can be very taxing if you haven’t got your spiritual armament in check.”

  “There was a time right after the Emmy Awards where we were nominated and we lost to Ed Sheeran… I remember going back to my hotel room in Los Angeles… It’s time to go into the studio and do the work.” – Sam Ryder [10:28–11:38]

• Refusal to be ‘Always On’:

  • Challenged the industry notion that ‘disappearing’ is failure; insists creativity requires privacy and time.

4. Embracing Failure: Ego, Positivity, and Sincerity

[28:19–33:10]

• Second Failure: Positivity as a Double-Edged Sword

  • Being lauded as “so positive” began to feel like a branding trap, disconnected from reality.

  “Positivity can become a currency, but it isn't worth anything. It's snake oil. None of us are one dimensional human beings… I felt like perhaps I'd crossed a line…” – Sam Ryder [29:04]

• Song ‘White Lies’:

  • Inspired by these feelings of disconnect between public persona and inner experience.

• Faith & Realism:

  • Advocates for “real measured gratitude” and realism over forced optimism.

  “I don't believe in positive thinking. I believe in flexible and realistic thinking.” – Elizabeth Day [31:10]

• Spirituality:

  • Faith is a source of comfort and peace, not certainty (“Even if the kingdom of heaven isn't real, isn't this a better way to live?”) [34:15]

5. Comparison, Gratitude, and Building Your Own Path

[36:50–41:56]

• Managing Ego and Gratitude:
  • Grappled with frustration after not winning awards but recognized the need for self-awareness.

  “No one ever… gets rid of that ego. You just keep it in check. And the less you keep it in check, the more it grows.” – Sam Ryder [37:39]

• Creating Independence:
  • Built his own team and infrastructure, prioritizing personal connection and creative autonomy over charts and external validation.

  “…We’ve built our own recording studios, our own film studios, everything, so that no matter what happens, I can make records with a great team for the rest of my life. And it doesn’t matter about the charts…” – Sam Ryder [41:28]

6. Turning Away from Industry Pressures

[42:04–44:15]

• ‘White Lies’ Artwork & Symbolism:

  • Cover art of Sam’s face obscured represents moving away from old systems and public “persona.”
  • Photo taken near a pile of “rubbish” to symbolize leaving outdated industry structures behind, and embracing continual change.

• On the Music Industry's Flaws:

  “I think its lack of patience. Anything that's shiny and new, they run towards… but as soon as something else comes up, they get left in the lurch without being given the time to grow…” – Sam Ryder [44:15]

7. Third Failure: The Personal Cost of Success

[46:06–50:49]

• Missing Time with Family:

  • Regrets not being as present during this “golden age” where his parents and grandfather are still around.

  “I am living in the golden age of my life. My grandfather is alive, God bless him. And my mum and dad are fit and healthy…” – Sam Ryder [46:06]

• On Having Children:

  • Won’t consider it until he can be as present as his own father was.

  “I only want to have kids if I can be a good dad. And I don’t think I’m in the right space to be a dad as good as my dad was for me, really.” – Sam Ryder [49:34]

8. Music, Role Models, and Meeting Icons

[50:37–53:20]

• ‘Better Man’:

  • New song about being loved as a ‘better man’ by Lois and family.

  “That’s like the lyric… you love me like I'm a better man and like better than the one I think I am… and yeah, it's completely about that.” – Sam Ryder [50:49]

• Famous Encounters:

  • Met Brian Cox (scientist), Louis Theroux, Stormzy, and others – always unafraid to express admiration to his heroes.

  “If someone came up out of the blue that I didn’t know to say something nice to me, it would be the… I would be stoked…” – Sam Ryder [51:33]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Artistic Persistence:

  “I always say I was like a flea on a bunch of dying dogs, just sort of jumping off them at the right time…” – Sam Ryder [06:20]

• On the Trap of Fame:

  “It’s like giving a dog a treat every day. Well, like, every hour of every day, because you kind of. You get used to it, and it can be very taxing if you haven’t got your, like, spiritual armament in check.” – Sam Ryder [10:28]

• On the Reality of Music Careers:

  “When you said in your introduction, that’s the time that it was just playing around Europe, around Russia… to no one. And that’s the reality for so many people. Absolutely grafting, carrying on regardless…” – Sam Ryder [06:20]

• On Accepting Failure as Growth:

  “We aren’t victims of failure, we are beneficiaries.” – Sam Ryder [39:35]

• On Building His Own Creative Universe:

  “We’ve built our own recording studios, our own film studios, everything, so that no matter what happens, I can make records with a great team for the rest of my life.” – Sam Ryder [41:28]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:36] – Sam on the lessons from being a wedding singer
• [08:16] – The humility and ego check of overlooked performances
• [13:46] – The Battle of the Bands “failure” and reflective moment by the stars
• [17:13] – Lois’s support and “inviting” the future
• [21:16] – The Sia TikTok moment and life-changing viral success
• [29:04] – “Positivity as a currency” and its dangers
• [34:15] – Faith and “isn’t this a better way to live?”
• [37:39] – The challenge of ego and gratitude post-award loss
• [41:28] – Building his own creative infrastructure
• [46:06] – Missing out on his “golden age” with family
• [50:49] – The meaning behind “Better Man”
• [51:33] – Refusing to be intimidated and meeting his idols

Episode Tone & Final Thoughts

Elizabeth Day facilitates a gentle, intimate, and philosophical conversation, drawing out Sam’s humility and openness. Sam Ryder remains grateful, unguarded and at times self-effacing, combining depth with self-deprecating humor. Listeners are left with a rich portrait of an artist who’s wrestled with rejection, acceptance, and the shifting value of public acclaim—and who ultimately treasures love, gratitude, and meaning above all.

For further reflection:

• How do we measure success when attention and praise fade?
• What does it mean to build an authentic, sustainable life in the shadow of ambition and external validation?