How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Episode: Tom Ellis – Fatherhood, Surrogacy and Years of Therapy
Date: September 3, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Elizabeth Day sits down with beloved actor Tom Ellis—star of Netflix’s Lucifer and the BBC’s Miranda—to explore his relationship with failure and what it has taught him about family, career, self-acceptance, and growth. They discuss themes of fatherhood, surrogacy, therapy, and how being brought up as a Baptist minister’s son (and as a twin, among three sisters) influenced him. Tom candidly covers three key “failures”: his sports ambitions as a child, a fainting incident that nearly derailed his U.S. Green Card, and financial missteps as a student. Rich with humor, humility, and insight, this conversation takes listeners deep into the complexities of personal growth and resilience.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Spiritual Upbringing and Worldview ([03:40]–[05:09])

• Spiritual Beginnings: Tom discusses his religious background, being raised by a Baptist minister, and how this gave him both a sense of community and, ironically, put up obstacles (like missing sports on Sundays).
  • “When I was a kid growing up, I used to think it would be God and God's plan… As I’ve gotten older, I've taken a step back from organized religion, but I still hold on to a sense of spirituality and a sense that there's something much bigger that we can't put our finger on…” —Tom Ellis [03:57]
• Course Correction & Intuition:
  • Tom notes learning—often uncomfortably—to acknowledge when he’s on the wrong path, a skill honed with age and therapy.
  • "Acknowledging when I've been in the wrong place has been hard, but it's something that I've got better at." —Tom Ellis [04:42]

2. People Pleasing & Relationships ([05:17]–[06:38], [19:01]–[21:48])

• Scorpio Stereotypes and People Pleasing: Both Tom and Elizabeth are 1978-born Scorpios and admit to lifelong people-pleasing traits.
  • "It's been a lifetime’s work for me dismantling myself from that desire to keep everyone happy." —Elizabeth Day [05:17]
• Romantic Consequences: Tom links his people-pleasing with challenges in relationships, including a “savior complex,” gravitating toward those with hard upbringings, and difficulty knowing his own needs.
  • "To want someone, you know, I want you to like me is a voice in my head all the time in any environment I go into." —Tom Ellis [19:40]
  • "You open yourself up to people taking advantage of that sometimes…you can make yourself small without realizing it." —Tom Ellis [20:24]
• Therapy as a Lifeline: He credits years of therapy for greater self-understanding.
  • "I've had therapy, you know, on and off throughout my adult life...You're just basically asking someone to ask you the questions that you're scared to ask yourself." —Tom Ellis [21:10]

3. Career Highlights and Creative Influences ([05:47]–[11:54], [25:31]–[27:33])

• Working with Legends: Tom describes awe and intimidation on the Thursday Murder Club set with Helen Mirren, Ben Kingsley, Pierce Brosnan, and Celia Imrie.
  • "If you knew what was going on in my head right now, this is role reversal." —Tom Ellis [06:00]
• Missed Spielberg Moment: Tom and David Tennant found themselves starstruck—and slightly disappointed—not to be introduced to producer Steven Spielberg.
  • "Do you think anyone's gonna actually introduce us to him? And no one did." —Tom Ellis [07:05]
• Miranda Years: Tom recounts being cast as Gary after a chance audition, and the “against the grain” humor that resonated so widely.
  • "At the time… I was reading this script thinking, what on earth is this?...But I was—my interest was piqued." —Tom Ellis [25:47]

4. Fatherhood, Surrogacy & Family Dynamics ([08:07]–[11:45], [47:39]–[50:54])

• Surrogacy Experience: Tom reflects on the emotional journey of welcoming his youngest daughter, Dolly, via surrogate, calling the process “beautiful, viable, and filled with opinions.”
  • "Surrogacy is a really viable option for people where it's difficult to do it otherwise…We became very friendly with our surrogate. She was incredible...It seems like a very sort of strange relationship if you're not part of it, but when you are, it makes complete sense." —Tom Ellis [11:11]
  • "Childbirth and being a parent comes with lots of opinions from people. And I've been happier in life when I've closed my ears off to those opinions." —Tom Ellis [11:39]
• Step-Parenting and Representation: On his wife Megan Oppenheimer’s show, Second Wife, Tom is keen to showcase the nuances of step-parenting and remarriage.
  • "There are lots of…nuances about being a step parent, for example… while you’re going through them, a lot of the time you feel like you’re the only person who’s ever experienced this. And then of course…you start talking to people and realize it’s a very shared experience." —Tom Ellis [08:36]
• On Being a Dad: Tom finds parenting transformative.
  • "Love will conquer many, many things. Unconditional love is so powerful...True, unconditional love comes from [having children]…and it’s valuable and you want to cherish it." —Tom Ellis [47:48]

5. Failure 1 – Not Making It as a Sportsman ([11:54]–[13:21], [22:58]–[24:03])

• Passionate but Hampered: Tom loved football, cricket, rugby; but Sundays were for church, not sport, so his skills plateaued.
  • "I was very able, but I was never quite good enough to pursue it...And I was sort of resentful for it my whole sort of childhood…because I grew up in the church." —Tom Ellis [11:57]
• Learning From Letting Go: He channeled his disappointment into possible careers in sports physiotherapy, before stumbling into acting.
  • "I stumbled across acting at like the age of 17...I guess stumbling across acting was the real point of, like, ah, okay, this is what I should be doing." —Tom Ellis [23:17], [24:03]

6. Failure 2 – The Green Card Medical Fiasco ([27:35]–[31:23])

• Vasovagal Faints: A fainting episode while having blood drawn (and denying vulnerability on medical forms) led to a failed U.S. residency medical.
  • "I can feel it happening, and I'm like, I'm really sorry. I think I'm about to— (faints)" —Tom Ellis [28:55]
• Medical Systems Clash: UK doctors called him a “wuss”; US doctors explained vasovagal response and prescribed anti-anxiety meds for blood draws.
  • "What you're describing is a condition called vasovagal...it's a form of panic attack and your body decides something is really bad and your nervous system shuts down." —US Doctor, retold by Tom [30:07]
  • "I came in the following week...and I was absolutely fine." —Tom Ellis [31:17]
• Reflections on American Citizenship & Politics: Tom is candid, if wary, about now being a U.S. citizen in turbulent political times.
  • "I think I've become a U.S. citizen at the worst possible time, unfortunately. I love the states...But it also is the currency of how people value life. And people are prone to looking after number one first." —Tom Ellis [31:25]–[32:29]

7. Failure 3 – Student Finances Gone Wrong ([42:12]–[45:59])

• Financial Misadventure: Growing up without much money, Tom took out loans and was overwhelmed managing funds at drama school—ending up “living on a can of baked beans every two days.”
  • "It was the first time in my life that I had been given an overdraft...the perfect storm...It was like Brewster’s Millions, but without millions." —Tom Ellis [42:51]
  • "At the end of my first year I had a £1,500 overdraft—which back then was a lot—and I'd spent all of my loan." —Tom Ellis [44:07]
• Hard Work and Turnaround: He took three summer jobs to pay back debts, which acted as a personal wake-up call.
  • "That whole summer became a sort of a humbling process of, you can't allow this to happen. You've been given this opportunity, you've worked so hard for it. You need to buck your ideas up." —Tom Ellis [45:18]

8. Family, Twins, and Gender Dynamics ([16:16]–[19:01])

• Twin Experience: Born a record-breaking heavy twin (“Record Breakers” headline), Tom reflects on the curiosity and social skills that come with being part of a twin set in a public family.
  • "My dad said, you came out to an audience and you've never really stopped since then." —Tom Ellis [00:00], [16:49]
• Understanding Women: Growing up with three sisters made Tom comfortable with platonic friendships across genders.
  • "Growing up with sisters, do you think that helped you understand women?"
    "Definitely, yes, without a shadow of a doubt." —Elizabeth Day & Tom Ellis [18:15]–[18:19]

9. Marriage, Divorce, and Acceptance ([37:54]–[41:28])

• Flawed and Loved: Tom credits his relationship with Megan Oppenheimer with teaching him to be authentic and loved, imperfections included.
  • "What we love about each other is our imperfections. And I think that is a very different place to where I've been before in life." —Tom Ellis [39:24]
• Regret and Learning: On whether he has regrets:
  • "I think it's easy to say you regret things, but actually, no, I don't... I went into everything with great intentions and so, no, I don't have regrets." —Tom Ellis [41:28]

10. Cats & Comedic Relief ([48:42]–[50:49])

• Becoming a Cat Person: Although he was raised in a dog family, Tom became a cat lover thanks to Megan, even fostering kittens.
  • "Getting some kind of affection from your cat is one of the most rewarding things in the world. Yes, again, being a people pleaser and being a cat owner are two things that don’t work." —Tom Ellis [49:26], [49:52]
• Parenting & Pets: Their young daughter’s first word: "kitty."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | [00:00] | Tom Ellis | "There was probably about 20 people gathered around my mum's vagina just when we were being born and my dad said you came out to an audience and you've never really stopped since then." | | [11:11] | Tom Ellis | "We became very friendly with our surrogate. She was incredible...It seems like a very sort of strange relationship if you're not part of it, but when you are, it makes complete sense." | | [21:10] | Tom Ellis | "You're just basically asking someone to ask you the questions that you're scared to ask yourself because you probably know the answers already." | | [24:03] | Tom Ellis | "I guess stumbling across acting was the real point of like, ah, okay, this is what I should be doing." | | [25:47] | Tom Ellis | "I was reading this script thinking, what on earth is this?...But I was—my interest was piqued." | | [28:55] | Tom Ellis | "I can feel it happening, and I'm like, I'm really sorry. I think I'm about to— [passes out]." | | [31:25] | Tom Ellis | "I think I've become a U.S. citizen at the worst possible time, unfortunately. I love the states." | | [39:24] | Tom Ellis | "What we love about each other is our imperfections. And I think that is a very different place to where I've been before in life." | | [47:48] | Tom Ellis | "Love will conquer many, many things. Unconditional love is so powerful…and it’s valuable and you want to cherish it." | | [49:52] | Tom Ellis | "Getting some kind of affection from your cat is one of the most rewarding things in the world. Yes, again, being a people pleaser and being a cat owner are two things that don’t work." |

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Spirituality and Family Roots: [03:40]–[05:09]
• People Pleasing & Therapy: [05:17]–[06:38], [19:01]–[21:48]
• Embarrassing Spielberg Encounter: [06:38]–[07:48]
• Fatherhood & Surrogacy: [08:07]–[11:45]
• Failure 1 – Sports: [11:54]–[13:21], [22:58]–[24:03]
• Miranda & Acting Break: [25:31]–[27:33]
• Failure 2 – Green Card Medical: [27:35]–[31:23]
• American Citizenship & Politics: [31:25]–[34:41]
• Failure 3 – Student Finances: [42:12]–[45:59]
• Family Bonding & Parental Love: [47:39]–[50:49]
• Cat Adoptions & Affection: [48:42]–[50:49]

This summary captures the thoughtful, humorous, and candid energy of both Tom Ellis and Elizabeth Day, highlighting stories that range from formative family moments and professional anxieties to moving meditations on modern fatherhood and finding self-acceptance—failures, flaws, but always with love and hope.