Ask HTM - 4 Hours to Dispute $3.16, All-In on the S&P 500, and Hitting Coast FIRE #1123

Summary

How to Money – Ask HTM: 4 Hours to Dispute $3.16, All-In on the S&P 500, and Hitting Coast FIRE (#1123)

Hosts: Joel and Matt
Podcast: How to Money (iHeartPodcasts)
Release Date: April 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging listener mailbag episode, Joel and Matt field a variety of personal finance questions from the How to Money community. They cover nuanced retirement plan questions, break down the pros and cons of going all-in on the S&P 500, dissect whether fighting small medical charges is frugal or cheap, and give practical tips for major appliance purchases. True to their style, the duo keeps things jargon-free, conversational, and candid—peppering in memorable banter and relatable stories.

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Main Topics & Discussion Highlights

1. Coast FIRE and Unusual Retirement Accounts

Listener: Brian from Alaska [10:40]

• Context: Brian is a state employee with various retirement accounts (401A SBS-AP, 401A DCR, 457B), sitting on roughly ~$1.5M at age 41, considering a pay-cut and career change for better quality of life, and wondering if he's hit Coast FIRE.
• Key Points & Advice:
  • Retirement Account Alphabet Soup: The hosts acknowledge the confusion around non-standard employer retirement accounts, especially for public/state employees. They explain the Alaska-specific 401A SBS-AP is a Social Security replacement, giving employees control over investments, with 457B plans allowing penalty-free early withdrawals.

    “It sounds like a part to a computer... all these numbers and letters.” – Matt [14:10]

  • Am I Coast FI?: While details of Brian's spending are unknown, Matt and Joel agree that most 41-year-olds with $1M+ in retirement accounts can comfortably "coast" if they've front-loaded their investments.

    “Most early 40s folks with a million dollars in retirement accounts could easily go the rest of their lives without investing another cent and have plenty in retirement.” – Joel [13:47]

  • Next Steps: Run the numbers using a coast FI calculator considering future living expenses. Brian’s situation offers him tremendous flexibility to scale back on investing and focus on enjoying life, without undue anxiety about under-saving.
  • Takeaway: It's important to know when to stop aggressively investing and give yourself permission to enjoy your hard-earned flexibility.

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2. Cashing In Old Savings Bonds

Listener: Emily from Wilmington, Delaware [27:43]

• Context: Emily has a batch of matured savings bonds from childhood and is struggling to redeem them—bank didn’t help, Treasury is slow (6 weeks to 6 months since mailing them in).
• Key Points & Advice:
  • The Lessons from Savings Bonds: Savings bonds can spark financial curiosity in kids, even if the process feels old-fashioned by today’s standards.

    “Savings bonds feel like the throwback 60 year old version of getting something else started, right?” – Joel [30:51]

  • Redemption Realities: Ideally, matured bonds can be cashed at banks/credit unions, but limits and outdated processes can force you to mail to Treasury.
  • Wait or Chase?: If it’s only been 6 weeks, have patience. If it’s been 6 months, file a “lost bond” request and consider phoning Treasury.
  • Memorable Moment: The hosts lament government inefficiency and fantasize about user-friendly digital reforms.

    “Why can we not do the same thing with paper savings bonds? ... Fingers crossed.” – Joel [38:16]

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3. Is Disputing a $3.16 Medical Charge Frugal or Cheap?

Listener: Megan from Portland, Oregon [38:26]

• Context: Megan has spent 4+ hours disputing erroneous small medical charges (totaling $17.60) for preventative care, with each dispute successful. She calculates the HSA tax-sheltering compounding this “saved” money to ~$500 by retirement.
• Key Points & Debate:
  • Frugal or Cheap?: Matt says, “I think it’s cheap,” pointing to the time-money trade-off. Joel agrees—in most cases, $3.16 simply isn’t worth a multi-hour ordeal.

    “It's such a small claw… the tiniest of tiny toys in the arcade game.” – Matt [43:14]

  • But...: They acknowledge the principle of fighting back, and the value of grit and systemic challenge—but caution against disproportionate time spent on negligible returns unless you also gain skills, content, or satisfaction.
  • Humor & Relatability: The hosts joke about nerding out over compound interest and little arcane battles with bureaucracy.

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4. Going All-In on the S&P 500 for Retirement

Listener: Ken, via Facebook [51:30]

• Context: Ken (age 35) just went from a Target Date fund to 100% S&P 500 in his 401(k) and asks if others do this, and how to rebalance over time.
• Key Points & Advice:
  • Young + S&P 500: Matt and Joel both went very stock-heavy in their younger wealth-building years. Target-date funds can be “too conservative” for young investors.

    "It's not about the age bracket… it's about how long you've been investing, what you've been able to amass, and what sort of risk appetite you have." – Joel [58:59]

  • Rebalancing: As retirement approaches, consider directing new dollars into more conservative allocations rather than selling and shifting current holdings—especially if you start with decades on your horizon.
  • Legacy Considerations: If your assets will far outlast your needs, there’s less need to de-risk as you age.
  • Book Rec: The Simple Path to Wealth by J.L. Collins gets a shoutout for its simple approach to these questions.

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5. Appliance Advice: Buying a Replacement Refrigerator

Listener: Ashley [58:59]

• Context: Ashley’s fridge died unexpectedly; she needs practical, cost-effective purchase advice and wonders about water hook-ups/ice makers.
• Key Points & Advice:
  • Features: Water and ice dispensers are often worth it—especially with kids. Models with external dispensers are more convenient.

    “Absolutely, not only get the water line hookup, but—get a fridge that has the water spout on the outside.” – Matt [60:09]

  • Where to Buy: Matt is big on Costco (or Sam’s Club)—they offer generous return windows, included haul-away/installation, and bonus warranty coverage.
  • Design & Repair Warnings: Fancier, feature-laden models are likelier to be maintenance headaches (“Mo’ money, mo’ problems”). Beware of “hidden” costs and prioritize reliability/volume.

    “The fancier you go, oftentimes the more maintenance, the more expensive it is to repair.” – Joel [61:51]

  • Consumer Reports is recommended for unbiased reviews.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Retail Financing Tactics:

  “When did buying furniture become like buying a car?” – Joel [05:55]
  “They wouldn’t even tell her the price. That is crazy.” – Matt [05:29]

• On crunching numbers for fun:

  “For fun, she crunched some numbers to calculate her compound. For fun, she spent even more time, Megan, on this small money decision.” – Matt [40:25]

• On Midlife Money Philosophy:

  “It’s all about taking advantage of the freedom that you’ve earned through your hard work and diligence—not about looking to continue to make that number bigger and bigger.” – Matt [20:40]

• On cost vs. convenience:

  “We live in an era of extreme convenience, where people will pay significant amounts of money to make anything easier. Megan’s taking the exact opposite approach.” – Joel [47:00]

• On feature-rich appliances:

  “The fancier you go, oftentimes the more maintenance, the more expensive it is to repair... It’s like with cars these days.” – Joel [61:57]

• On open-ended life decisions:

  “A lot of decisions in life are two way doors... revolving doors where you can try it out for a while, give it a go. If it doesn’t work out, just hit command Z, undo.” – Matt [23:45]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Listener Mailbag Episode Theme: [01:29]
• Furniture Sales Skepticism Rant: [03:13]
• Coast FIRE/Alaska Retirement Accounts (Brian): [10:40]
• Savings Bond Redemption Woes (Emily): [27:43]
• Is Disputing Small Medical Charges Frugal or Cheap? (Megan): [38:26]
• All-In on the S&P 500 for Retirement (Ken): [51:30]
• Replacing a Refrigerator Wisely (Ashley): [58:59]

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Tone and Style Notes

• Language: Conversational, relatable, with Southern inflections (“y’all,” good-natured ribbing)
• Humor: The hosts riff on each other freely, joking about furniture scams, obsessive number crunching, and the joys of external fridge water spouts.
• Empathy: Especially around bureaucracy and inefficiency in finance (e.g., saving bonds, healthcare billing)

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Resources Mentioned

• Coast FIRE article & calculator – howtomoney.com [13:29]
• Consumer Reports (for appliance reviews) [61:33]
• The Simple Path to Wealth by J.L. Collins [58:20]

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Final Takeaways

• Don’t underestimate the power (or limitation) of aggressive early retirement savings—use your financial freedom intentionally!
• Be mindful of time vs. money in micro-battles—sometimes the philosophical stand can be its own reward, but not always the practical one.
• Simple investing (e.g., S&P 500 index funds) works extremely well for young investors—but gradual de-risking makes sense as retirement nears.
• In major purchases, reliability and practicality trump flashy bells and whistles—shop at stores with service-oriented policies and check unbiased reviews.

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“Best friends out.”

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast to terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for indeed sponsored Jobs. Welcome to how to money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I am Matt.

[Joel]

Today we're answering your listener questions.

[Matt]

That's right. Happy Monday to everyone. We hope everyone had a fantastic weekend out there. And Joel, we are gonna hear directly from listeners three specifically that I'm thinking of. We're gonna hear their voice memos and hopefully we'll get to a couple others. For instance, we've got we're gonna hear from our listener herself, her actual voice who's debating frugal or cheap as it pertains to healthcare. No, she is not.

[Joel]

There is no cheap when it comes to healthcare, man.

[Matt]

She's not scraping her own plaque off her own teeth with her own dentist tools like I do sometimes. We've shared that before the show.

[Joel]

Yeah, that's Everybody knows you're weird when it comes to your teeth stuff.

[Matt]

Another listener.

[Joel]

You just don't want anyone else touching them, right?

[Matt]

I personally completely enjoy going into the dentist, kicking back, opening my mouth and let them do their thing.

[Joel]

You just don't enjoy paying for it.

[Brian (Listener)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt]

Well, and in particular I'm just like, well we never get have cavities and I know I should probably how would

[Joel]

you know, well, if you never asked

[Matt]

a professional, I go in, like, once every so often, not even to say the number of years. But another listener has a dead refrigerator trying to figure out what she should take into account as she's looking to replace it. And another listener is trying to figure out whether or not he's financially independent or not. Yeah, he's got some different accounts in the mix as well, so we'll get to his question plus more during our Ask how to Money episode on today's how to Money podcast. Joel here on iHeartNetwork.

[Joel]

Let's go. Okay.

[Matt]

I thought I'd just say all the

[Joel]

things my sister was telling me this weekend. My older sister.

[Matt]

Older sister.

[Joel]

Older sister. Katie. A story about furniture shopping that shocked me. It was wild. And I feel like I have to divulge this. I was just trying to think about the last time I bought furniture. I think it was probably buying something on article. I think I bought a bookshelf on article and buying something on article.

[Matt]

Sweet stuff.

[Joel]

It's a really nice bookshelf.

[Matt]

Make some cool stuff.

[Joel]

Emily and I had debated, should we get something that's, like, you know, super cheap? Well, I don't know. It looks like it's flimsy. It's probably going to fall apart soon. Let's get, like, a piece that we're going to have for a long time. And article felt like that middle of the range sort of choice. And it's been great. I've really enjoyed the bookshelf, but. And it looks great.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

But my sister. So she went out, like, to get furniture at a real life store, a chain furniture store.

[Matt]

That's a whole different approach.

[Joel]

I don't know if I've.

[Matt]

Furniture buying.

[Joel]

Yeah. I don't know if I've ever bought a piece of furniture from one of those stores or this like, furniture, but now I never will.

[Matt]

Is it Rooms to Go?

[Joel]

Is that one of them? 1.

[Matt]

One of the big box stores where you show up and it's just like, I'll take all this for my house.

[Joel]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess I could. And there's, like, me and so many problems with the way those. Those big firms operate. Oftentimes, you know, no interest for a certain period of time, and then they completely screw you at the very end of the deal. But this was very different. So she went into. And I'll. I'll just name. I'll name the store, even though. I don't know. I'm not trying to throw them under the bus, but she said she went To a place called Ashley Furniture. And all right, at this store, I've heard of Ashley, they were looking for a coffee table and they like, like tried to hard sell them on a mattress upgrade.

[Matt]

Right?

[Joel]

Like, such a hard sell.

[Matt]

Don't you want the coffee table that can convert into a guest bed?

[Joel]

Actually, yeah.

[Matt]

All you have to do is put the mattress on top of the coffee table.

[Joel]

But the crazy, the craziest part of the whole thing was like they finally, for the coffee table, were able to get a firm price. My sister was like, I want to pay cash today and walk out with this piece of furniture. But on certain, on the other things that they were.

[Matt]

Is there even a conversation why they

[Joel]

would not tell them a price? They said, well, your monthly payment could be this. And she was like, how long's the term and what would the cash price be? She wouldn't tell her the answer to either of those questions. What? The salesperson on the floor would not tell her an answer to that.

[Matt]

Literally wouldn't tell her a price of the item.

[Joel]

Nope.

[Matt]

Oh, my gosh.

[Joel]

Basically like, no, no, no, you can't pay us cash. You have to pay the payment. And they're not forced to tell you how many. And I'm sure in the fine print of the contract that they would have forced them to sign.

[Matt]

It's crazy.

[Joel]

It's gotta lay it out in there. But like they're going to put. Get you to the table with the pen and the printed out paper before you can see the terms that you're signing up for. And you couldn't even get a cash price out of them. Like, it's absurd.

[Matt]

That is the craziest thing I've ever heard.

[Joel]

When did buying, like furniture become like buying a car?

[Matt]

Like, that's exactly what I was thinking of. Like, why is it even a conversation? Why is it something that we are debating, like, what's the price on the thing? And then I will decide whether or not I want to buy it. Don't talk to me like you don't need to talk to me. Just go back into your office. Go back into the back of the store or wherever it is that you've been lurking. You can watch other people shop, but leave me alone. Yeah, I understand why you are not keen to support that furniture retailer anymore.

[Joel]

Yeah, I mean, I think she bought the coffee table and it's happy with the coffee table. So I'm not even casting aspersions on how good the quality of the furniture is, but.

[Matt]

So she literally got it, did not pay cash and Is making monthly payments?

[Joel]

No, no, she paid cash for the coffee table. But on every other item she asked about, they wouldn't have a discussion on that. And so she said it took her a while to get the firm cash price. Coffee even on the coffee table.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Okay, so beware if you're out there

[Matt]

buying furniture that is such a bum way to outfit. Is that. I'm. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised. Well, like, your sister is a testament to the fact that these stores still exist. Like, it feels so old school and like, you, you said something about the same. Same as cash. Like the different, you know, periods of

[Joel]

time, whatever, 0% interest until 2031 or something like that.

[Matt]

Yeah. And, and, or like even for a year. And honestly, you know what this reminds me of is my parents. I remember my parents did that. I feel like it was a relic from the 90s. Something where they're like, well, why wouldn't I do that? And they were super diligent about it and paid it off like a month prior to what they had. And yeah, essentially they were being loaned money for free. Did not have to make any interest payments. Got the thing. But it almost feels like maybe that was the equivalent to credit card welcome offers back then. Like, you know, like. Like there are certain hoops that we jump through now. Or, you know, it's like, oh, if you give me a thousand bucks, then sure, I will jump through all these hoops, sign up for this new card, open this new account. Maybe it's a card I'll end up sticking with for a while. Oh, you got. It's a year later you got me with the annual fee. Okay. You know, there are all these hoops you jump through. And I wonder if in a similar way, that's what my parents were doing 20 years ago, perhaps.

[Joel]

But yeah, it's just. It's crazy to me.

[Matt]

The crappy sounding experience.

[Joel]

I could say from a marketing experience, you know, side of things, they might say, yeah, you can get. You can own this couch. You could take it home for $33 a month. Right. Because that entices people. It's a selling point. But when the person says, yeah, but how much is the actual price? You would think the salesperson would be like, I mean, it's 2500 bucks.

[Matt]

You know, like you'd be obligated to

[Joel]

tell you, yeah, they're playing hardball. It's so insane.

[Matt]

I just couldn't.

[Joel]

I was like, like, for real? How many times did you ask? She's like, I kept asking. They would not Tell me that is crazy. This is just hard to fathom. I was like, I have to. I have to talk about this on the podcast. I know you do.

[Matt]

She basically teed it up for you and knew that is what was going to happen. But honestly, whether you're looking to purchase furniture or a used car, Facebook marketplace or some other used source, man, that's the way to go. And guess what? They're not trying to do. They're not trying to finance the purchase with you. They're just like, oh, yeah, it's going to cost you this much. That's the way to go. Another way to go is with a blonde, fat Alex, which is the beer, Joel, that you and I are going to be enjoying today from Back Pocket Brewing. And this is another. This is our last beer from Clint. Is that right?

[Joel]

I think so, yeah.

[Matt]

So, Clint, thank you for sending this one our way. I'm looking forward to enjoying it. We will share our thoughts at the end of the episode, and listeners can submit their own Voice Memos to howtomoneypodmail.com that is how we A, get to hear your voice here on the podcast and B, share our insights not only with you, but. But with other listeners who might be in a similar situation. So you can almost. You might be a little annoyed and you're like, no, guys, just answer my question. Be like the sales rep, just tell me the price. But you see, there is an ulterior motive here, which is to help other people. It's not just to answer the question that you might have. So record one of those on your phone, 90 seconds or less. State your name. I love hearing where you're from as well, because I like to look up the particular town where you might be living and again, email it over to howtomoneypodmail.com There's a certain amount of, like, listener curiosity about.

[Joel]

About what other listeners, what's going on with your money, what they're up to. Yeah, I love to hear it just because I'm like, oh, I get the finger on the pulse of what's going on in the how to money community. What questions people have. And other listeners, I think, feel that same sense of curiosity about what are other people struggling with? What are the questions that are top of their mind? Maybe it's a question you think seems insignificant, but other people haven't even thought to ask it yet. And so you asking it brings it up on the show and makes it delivers value to everyone else out there listening.

[Matt]

That's right, man. All right, our first question is From a listener who has Alphabet soup of different retirement accounts and is trying to figure out if he is coast fire or not.

[Brian (Listener)]

Hey, Matt and Joel, Brian from Alaska up here. I had a few questions about some different retirement accounts. I know we constantly hear about 401ks and IRAs and Roth IRAs. I'm in a little bit different situation, so just kind of a breakdown. I'm a state employee up here. I've got a couple 401A accounts. One's a SBS dash AP. I guess that's a replacement for Social Security. And the Other one's a 401A DCR for a defined contribution. And then finally I have a 457B for a deferred comp plan. Those accounts have like 535k, 611k and 6.330k respectively. Honestly, without having the idea of Social Security and that kind of fallback, I'm honestly not really sure how I'm sitting retirement wise. I feel like I'm doing okay for context. I'm 41 years old. I am looking to change career paths here relatively quick and take a pretty big pay cut, but a pretty big increase in quality of life. So I just kind of want to know one what those plans, other types of plans mean and also like, how am I sitting retirement wise? What can I do? Or should I be trying to diversify or am I okay, really just kind of pulling back from retirement for a while so I can make sure that this new life that me and my family are getting ready to start in a different state is we can kind of live the day to day comfortably and maybe get back into retirement account funding here in the next couple of years. Anyway, guys, love the show. Glad to hear from you guys and look forward to an answer. Thank you.

[Matt]

Bummer. Brian didn't share where he's from. Joel, he just said Alaska. He didn't say the specific town.

[Joel]

Alaska, Brian.

[Matt]

Is it Juneau? Is it Anchorage? Is it some other lovely place to live that all of our listeners want to know about?

[Joel]

I mean, I don't know that I could name many other towns.

[Matt]

I just named 100% of Alaska. Of the towns that I know, those

[Joel]

two I still want to visit someday.

[Matt]

He's talking about switching things up. I think it's because he's tired of being cold. Yeah, he said he's at another state, which means he's moving somewhere warmer. That's a good point. Guaranteed.

[Joel]

Yeah, there. Are there any colder states in Alaska?

[Matt]

I don't think so.

[Joel]

Minnesota is pretty cold.

[Podcast Announcer]

Too.

[Joel]

I mean, first off, Brian, it sounds like you've hit Coast Fire, right? This is, this is where you've contributed enough potentially. Yeah, potentially. Right. We don't, we don't know because we don't know the full extent of your situation. But it's when you've contributed enough to retirement accounts that you don't have to invest another dollar if you don't want to literally for the rest of your life. Right. We actually have a new piece on the website, a new article on the website we did. We'll put it in the show notes. But it's all about Coast Fire. And so yeah, highly recommend everyone check it out because Coast Fire, I feel like it's getting all the love these days. Matt, in the Fire forums people are more interested in Coast Fire than some of the other types.

[Matt]

But most because it's a more balanced approach to retirement. Nobody wants to go crazy, pedal to metal and then not do anything.

[Joel]

One super strenuous decade so you can chill like for the rest of your

[Matt]

life and do absolutely nothing and zero value to the world. Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't really. Yeah, I can see how that's jiving

[Joel]

with fewer and fewer folks. Jives more with us than the other varieties as well. But like whether you actually have for each coach Coast Fire, Brian. Well, that depends on what your spending looks like. Right. And we don't have a window into that. But most early 40s folks with a million dollars in retirement accounts could easily go the rest of their lives without investing another century and have plenty in retirement. We'll get to more on that in just a second though.

[Matt]

Yeah, let's talk about the, the specific accounts though that Brian mentioned because they are a bit different than your traditional 401k, your run of the mill Roth IRA combo that I think most how to money listeners are likely using. And some of your accounts are Alaska specific accounts to the state accounts. So the four a lot of extra letters behind them. Yeah, yeah. So the 401A SBS-AP mentioned. It sounds like a part to like a. It's like a microchip part to a computer or something. Honestly, what it sounds like are the different coffee grinders that I've been researching, Joel. They've got all these numbers and letters and. Oh, is that. Oh, that's the burr diameter. Oh, and what is the WP or the WS stand for? That's like what's going on here?

[Joel]

I mean that's. Brian, this is part of what frustrates people about retirement Accounts in general is.

[Matt]

You got to learn all the terminology,

[Joel]

the great variety, the small differences, sometimes greater differences, like, between different accounts. And it can be. It can be a little annoying at times.

[Matt]

Yeah. Unless you're into it like I am with coffee grinders. And then, like, I relish every detail. I don't necessarily think that that's the situation that Brian's going to dash WB.

[Joel]

I want it.

[Matt]

Yeah, but the. Yeah, so the 401A SBS dash AP, this one actually functions like a match, but that money is going toward that annuity like, account instead of towards payroll taxes that increase your Social Security check that you're going to be drawn on down the line. So that's not something that's available to you. Social Security, Alaska, well, they decided back in the day that its public workforce is going to be better off in one of these plans than having more of their earnings just thrust into the overall federal Social Security system. So if you are a fan of things moving more towards states, more state control, this is a great example of it. And that's something I can get behind is states get to experiment and try to figure out what's going to work best.

[Joel]

So Alaska be experimenting, man. And they do different stuff up there. Right. They've got the. The oil rebate that they pass on to their citizens every year. So Brian, probably going to have a few thousand dollars less coming your way if you move away from Alaska. Right. You won't be a citizen of that state anymore. You're not entitled to that oil rebate. But this particular account that you're talking about, Matt, it functions more like a private account. Right. Kind of like the George W. Bush proposal from the early 2000s, the contributions.

[Matt]

Okay, Boomer, that's what happened.

[Joel]

He wanted to privatize Social Security, and that's kind of what Alaska has done with this.

[Matt]

How old are you again? Are you in your 50s?

[Joel]

I remember the GW. Yes. Okay.

[Matt]

See, maybe you're more interested in personal finance at that point in life than I was.

[Joel]

Well, I mean, we were.

[Matt]

I remember him getting reelected.

[Joel]

This is like 20 years old.

[Matt]

I'm assuming this was the second term. Yeah.

[Joel]

Yeah, dude, I was in college. He was dead on arrival when he proposed it. Yeah, well, we're not old enough to, like. We're in our mom's womb. We remember. We were alive.

[Matt]

Yes, but it wasn't. Yeah, I was more interested in, like, other stuff. Let's just say that while I was in college that some dubya proposal.

[Joel]

Not gonna say. I was, like, reading the papers Again reading the Wall Street Journal.

[Brian (Listener)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel]

You're getting analysis of it, but. Yeah, but I knew that it happened. And so the contributions are almost identical to Social Security. But the nice thing is you can invest the money how you like, whereas with Social Security that's not how it works. Right. When you leave your job, black box

[Matt]

of what happens to that money.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

Oh, somebody else has to provide it in order for you to get, I

[Joel]

mean, well, it's your money being paid into the system. Right. To provide for your benefit. But you don't really have any say over how it's invested or what's done with it. And so when you leave your job, the nice thing is with this account you can roll your funds from your 401A and your 457B into an IRA with a low cost brokerage if you want to. Right. Which is awesome. I mean there's I guess a chance you might want to keep the 457 with Alaska if you're keen to tap it early. But you know, in important because that's, that's one of the nice things about the 457 makes it different, is that you can tap that account earlier without tax or penalty. So an important caveat by the way, is the Social Security check you receive in your retirement years could be non existent. Right. Or at least diminish greatly based on what other work you've done in your life. So your retirement is essentially 100% in your hands. But Brian, it's in your capable hands because you know what you're doing, you're saving a lot of money. So the 401A there is, it's your employee contribution account akin to the 401k from a traditional employer. The 457B is essentially an additional plan that many public employees also have access to. It's rare to be able to, you know, use them all to the max. But it sounds like you've been loading up your accounts with intention. Yeah, I don't know, maybe you've, maybe you've been maxing out those accounts for a few years.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. That being said, so like we kind of are going through the different accounts. It does it honestly, it frankly doesn't matter all that much about the specific accounts. Like it like what we're talking about, like these are the vehicles that get you to the destination and for some people it's all about the, the ride or something. I don't know. To me it's all about the destination. It's about your ability to have sock these dollars away. And it's less about what does it matter if it's in this account getting there in style versus in this. Versus this account. Right. Like it's. Yeah. Like it makes me think of like the rapper on a piece of candy. I'm like, I don't really care about the rapper. What's tell me about the candy or like if you're going to mail an envelope, I don't really care what color it is as long as the letter arrives at its destination or the stamp.

[Joel]

Some people are in the stamps.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. With the phase of stamps and like I don't really care.

[Joel]

Just give me one, just slap the stamp on there. Generic ones are fine with me.

[Matt]

Yeah. And that's what he's asking about specifically is if he has enough set aside and he's got, I mean based on the numbers he quickly rattled off there, like close to $1.5 million invested for his future.

[Joel]

That's incredible.

[Matt]

It really is. Especially at his age. Like he really has front loaded the sacrifice. And I think someone like you, Brian, are unlikely honestly to stop investing. Which does mean that you're going to continue to grow that nest egg. Even if you are investing at a greatly diminished, in a greatly diminished way, but especially as you take this lower paying job, as you're looking to enhance your day to day life, it sounds like you are automatically going to be investing less from your paycheck. That being said, let's imagine that you still have money on hand and you crunch the numbers. Maybe you are going to find that there is no need to invest another dime. And in which case it's not like something that happens automatically. You can just straight up give yourself that permission. And so just keep in mind like there is no award for amassing some giant nest egg. That's going to be far more than you're ever going to need because

[Joel]

you're

[Matt]

looking to impact your lifestyle and hitting what's called coast fi, coast financial independence. It is all about taking advantage of the freedom that you've earned through your hard work and your diligence. It's not about looking to continue to make that number bigger and bigger.

[Joel]

Yeah, if you've achieved it, but you feel this need to continue saving at a 40% rate, then you're losing.

[Matt]

Even though your number's getting bigger, you are losing in life and whether or not you have enough. Because ultimately I think that's what he's asking. He's like, well what do you guys think? And it truly is tough to know unless you crunch the numbers. You have to know what your expenses, what your annual expenses are. And what's tricky though is that it's not just about what your annual expenses are now, but you got to do some forecasting. You have to project a little bit into the future and figure out like, oh my gosh, are we going to spend more than we're spending now? Are we going to spend less than we're looking to spend now at retirement age? Let's just say roughly in, in 20 years. So that's why it's tough to say, yep, you're good to go, or nope, because these are constantly evolving and changing goals that we, that we set for ourselves, depending on the kind of lifestyle that we're looking to lead.

[Joel]

Yeah. And ultimately, like my guess is based on the way Brian has behaved so far, he's likely not going to never invest a dime ever again in his life. Right.

[Matt]

Especially that's what he said though, right? Because he said he was just like, oh, what if we just hit pause on that for a number of years before we resume it? So that's even more of an indicator that he's likely to see his wealth grow not just from compounding, but from actual contributions.

[Joel]

I think for a lot of people in his situation, let's say his new job comes with a 401k and a match. Right. Getting just the match, like only investing that amount because you've done so well so far. It would always be hard for me, Matt, even if I was like, I know I don't need to invest any more money to be able to have enough in retirement, but my goodness, am I going to throw away like 100% dollar for dollar match in like, probably not. I'm probably still going to take advantage of that and then after that not invest another dime. So I don't know, I don't know about you, but like, that's just kind of the optimizer. And I'm not, I'm not like a full fledged optimizer all the way, but like, I would have a hard time leaving that on the table.

[Matt]

So it depends what you're trading off. Right. And so if you're in a state that you don't want to be in, in really cold weather, and I don't know what he's planning, but like it involves moving to a different state. So it sounds like a, for him to have that sort of entry level match, you know, or in the case in the example that you're giving that, it Would require a pretty big sacrifice. So for him it's like, okay, I'm looking to basically say no more to that in order for this, this, this big trade off. Yeah. And what, what I just kind of going back to like him hitting pause on that. What I love is that he can kind of try it out.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

You know, like let's say he's, there's

[Joel]

no harm in not investing a dollar for many, many years.

[Matt]

Yeah. Yeah. And he can, he can hit pause on his retirement savings for quite a while and say, oh, is this working out for us? And you can reevaluate. That's what's like. There are very few life decisions like this that are permanent where you can't, you know, where it's a one way. There are some one way door sort of decisions that we make.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

But a lot of decisions in life

[Joel]

are two way doors.

[Matt]

They're revolving doors where you can try it out for a while, give it a go. If it doesn't work out, just hit command Z, undo, get back to Alaska.

[Joel]

And he's just taken so much pressure off of his shoulders based on all the good work he's done so far. He can go into this breathing easily, not feeling any sort of intense burden to invest in nearly the same manner that he has been doing. He can take a load off again, run the numbers. Like Matt's saying. I think that's important. There are great coast fi calculators out there, by the way, that are worth checking into. Actually we link to one in that article up on howtomoney.com check that out, run the numbers. But then also know that, I mean that's part of the transition we all have to make at some point as investors, is knowing when to stop and then knowing when it's okay to start tapping the investments that we built up. Because that's part of the goal too. Right. Being able to utilize the money that we've amassed, not just amassing money forever.

[Matt]

That's right. But we've got more to get to. We're going to hear from a listener, frugal or cheap from a listener. We're going to talk about the s and P500. We'll get to that and more right after this.

[Joel]

You love what you do. You also love the idea of not doing it one day. But it's getting harder to know the best way to move into the future towards retirement. Right. We hear about inflation, rate hikes, the changing market, got to get kids through college, build an emergency fund, and then there's retirement yeah.

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

spurts of growth right?

[Matt]

We're tracking the fresh baby buds, begin to enjoy some of the fruits of our labor. But it is a constant labor of love, truly pruning in the off season to weeding, making room for new growth and plants. Now we gotta stay on top of it. We have a renewed sense of responsibility and that is also how we should be thinking about protecting the life that we've built for our family. It is a priority for us and luckily policygenius makes finding the right life insurance policy a breeze.

[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

grows with your life.

[Matt]

With Policygenius you can see if you can find 20 year life insurance policies starting at just $276 a year for $1 million in coverage. Head to Policygenius.com to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com

[Joel]

all right, Matt, we're back from the break. We've got More good questions to get to.

[Matt]

Let's.

[Joel]

Let's take one specifically about. This is kind of like actually an old school money question.

[Emily (Listener)]

Hey, y'. All, this is Emily coming to you from Wilmington, Delaware. First off, wanted to say thank you for a wonderful show and so much excellent advice, and I'm hoping that you can help me figure out what to do about a savings bond situation I'm finding myself in. Like a lot of kids of the 90s, I was gifted a good amount of savings bonds now totaling a few thousand dollars, and they've reached full maturity now after 30 years. So I went to my local banks, my credit union, and it doesn't seem like anybody is really in the business of cashing them anymore. And all of these different places advised me to actually mail them into the Treasury. So I got the right signatures from the bank and sent them in about six months ago, and I received confirmation that they got them about eight weeks after I sent them in. But nothing since then. Getting pretty nervous since they have a few thousand dollars of mine. But I'm wondering from your perspective, is this the best course of action? Is there something else that you would recommend for people who have these savings bonds lying around that have reached maturity? Thank you so much for all you do, and I appreciate your help.

[Matt]

Joel, did you notice that she said that Emily said y', all. But she's from Delaware. I think she tossed us a bone. I think she did that. Cause she knows that we're down here in Georgia, we're down in the South.

[Joel]

I also think y' all is catching on nationwide.

[Matt]

That's tr. For a while there, it was seen

[Joel]

as like this Southern thing.

[Matt]

It's like a safe way. It's an inclusive way to include.

[Joel]

A lot of people use guys like, come on. Y' all is just so much better than that. Everybody knows it, and we should all be using y'. All.

[Matt]

Yeah. I did this thing in college when I would combine you all and are so. Y' all are so kind of like dollar.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But y'.

[Ad Voice]

All.

[Joel]

Y' all are. That sounds like some from Kentucky or something.

[Matt]

Y' all are going to the store, right?

[Joel]

I don't know. Maybe because it rhymes with holler.

[Matt]

Maybe.

[Joel]

Yeah. Emily will do our.

[Matt]

The guys are like, oh, man, I didn't realize that the boys were that redneck. I swear. We're not.

[Joel]

No. Promise.

[Matt]

We need to speak in the King's English for the rest of the podcast. Joel.

[Joel]

We can. We can do that. All right. We'll do our best on this question. My guess Is, Emily, you're good with money, at least in some part because of the influence of a family member, which is cool. And despite the frustration of redeeming these bonds, I think part of the benefit they provide. And man, I think this is true when we talk about helping the next generation save. And it's part of our hope, I guess too, for the recently instated Trump accounts, even though they're not our favorite for multiple reasons, like maybe it will at least get the next generation interested and involved in investing and growing a nest egg for their future.

[Matt]

100%.

[Joel]

Part of the benefit of this is, is to provide the money, right, the startup money for whatever that young person is going to get into in the future and growing some money. But I think the other part is to just get them interested in money in general. And so I'm sure that had at least some effect for Emily. These saving savings bonds are not as flashy though, as helping you buy stocks. There are better ways to have a similar impact on a young person. In 2026. Savings bonds feel like the throwback 60 year old version of getting something else started, right?

[Matt]

But I'm still down with it.

[Joel]

I'm still down with it.

[Matt]

I'm still for it because of the fact that it's, it shifts the conversation like it shifts the narrative a little bit. We've talked about the Youth Fidelity account that I opened for my oldest daughter. It is crazy how that has changed our conversation around money, like, because of the fact that the automatic dividends are showing up there in her account. And so like, I've talked to her about dividends and earning interest, but now she's experiencing it firsthand and she sees it pop up. She's like, oh, what's this? What's this free money? I'm like, oh, let me, let me tell you about what that is. You know, that's the, that's the SPACS government sweep that you just got there. Like between that and some of the different tools. And this is obviously why some of these more modern age digital tools are maybe a little bit better. But you know, there's like a little chart that shows her essentially her net worth, you know, how much money she has to her name. And so she knows as it's going up and to the right that she's like, okay, good, that means I'm spending less and I'm earning more of my dollars. And so in a similar way, though, yes, 30 years ago, that's when the seed was planted when it came to Emily to have, oh, savings bonds they're on her radar a little bit more, which I'm all about.

[Joel]

Me too.

[Matt]

It's a great lesson that she's been able to learn. But I also want to make sure that, Emily, you get the money and you're not just receiving the lesson right here. So we don't often get savings bond questions that involve snail mail. You should have been able to redeem those at a local bank or at a local credit union. Although banks. So they often, they won't redeem it if they're over $1,000. And so I think that's what may have happened here. And I hate that they turned you away. So, yes, you can also send them into the US treasury by mail, by snail mail, as you did. But oh my goodness. Yeah, the US Government definitely takes its time and I feel your pain. I would absolutely be frustrated and tempted to be. Maybe I'd be a little bit nervous and maybe I should say I might even be tempted to be a little bit anxious about, oh, am I actually going to get those dollars. But I think we would try to encourage you to do your best to not do those things. Although I don't think saying don't be anxious is ever good advice.

[Joel]

But yeah, it's like don't think about a polar bear, black cars. Yeah.

[Matt]

All of a sudden that's what you see.

[Joel]

Yeah. That's all you can think about. When you [e-mail] Matt, they mentioned it's kind of like every time you call a 1-800-number now too. Even if you get on with the representative in the first two minutes still, even before you hit there, they're like, we're currently experiencing long wait times. I think it's just a cya, Right. That they put out there because long wait times are. They're just wanting everyone to think it might be a long wait time. And if it's not, then just be thankful. But I think with the government, truly, typically it is going to be a long way time. So the Treasury.gov mentions there's long wait times when you're redeeming physical savings bonds. And so they say that processing those paper bonds should take six weeks or so. If it were us, we'd wait. Did she say six weeks or six months? How long she's been waiting? Six months would be way too long. That would make me super nervous. If it's six weeks, I would say wait a little bit longer because then you're taking the government at face value plus a couple weeks, which is already just way too long. It shouldn't take that long. But they just might not be willing to help or able to take your lost bond request seriously if you reach out to them too soon.

[Matt]

Yeah, I could see that being the case.

[Joel]

So, yeah, if you're not too far beyond that six week period, we shouldn't

[Matt]

have been chatting during the most crucial part of the. When we're listening to her last.

[Joel]

Sorry, Emily. Yeah, but if you said six months, then I would file a lost bond request because if that's the case, that's way, way, way too long.

[Matt]

Yeah. And if you do that, it takes even longer. Right. So if it, if it is lost, it means you have to fill out another paper form, you got to get it notarized, you got to mail it in and then how long that's going to take. Right. Like for them to actually acknowledge receipt of that form is anyone's guess. So, like what? I don't want you to bang your head against the wall here. I think maybe, yeah, Again, depending on what you said, maybe hold it, hold off for a little bit longer to see if they not only acknowledge acceptance, but then actually begin to process that redemption. But then beyond that, maybe it wouldn't hurt to read. There's a phone number listed on the Treasury.gov site and they're actually open from 8 to 6pm Eastern, Joel. So I don't know, maybe like dialing up that number. That certainly.

[Joel]

Yeah, they might be able to check in on the status while you're on the phone with them and say, oh yeah, we've just processed it. It's being mailed out to you as we speak. Or actually we said we acknowledge receipt, but we can't find anything. Now we're gonna need you to go through this process. So I would, I would speak to a customer service representative over there. In the short term.

[Matt]

Yeah. And kind of, I guess so I'm slowly picking apart what I said about like, don't be anxious, Emily. And I think maybe what I was getting at, therapist man, I would do so well. I think what I'm realizing is I want you to take action where you think it will be able to provide you with results. But when it comes to sometimes when it comes to waiting, it's just a matter of being patient and just hitting pause a little bit and waiting for like if it's on the bottom of some stack of paper that someone, that there's an individual and you know, there's fewer people working at the government and process times are taking longer. If it's just them needing to work through the stack. Well, you calling, you being stressed about it, I don't think, I mean, I hate to say, but I don't think that's going to make any difference as to your ability to get your money back sooner. And I know it's easier said than done to say, oh, take it easy, remove yourself emotionally from the situation, especially if you need the money. Right. Like, let's say if you want to have this money on hand because you want to be able to use it for whatever xyz, go on a vacation, use for a down payment on a home, pay for kids, orthodontia. Right. Like, there's so many different things. You're probably thinking this would be so much better spent in this area of my life. Unfortunately, I can't do that because I haven't got my money from the government

[Joel]

and it would, it would be nice to see and I know was reading recently, Matt, about Joe Gabby, I think is his name from Airbnb, who's redesigning a bunch of websites and processes for the United States government. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw that article. Really cool that he's like, serving our country in this way, like making.

[Matt]

That was an article that I clicked and did not read, but just looked at the pictures and he was standing there next to the, the new food pyramid. And I remember talking about that because I was like, the new food pyramid looks good. And so he's attacked. I'm assuming he had something to do with that.

[Joel]

Also there's the Trump Rx website that he was responsible for creating and designing. Some of these government websites are so old and so crusty that they just really do need a redesign just for us all not to collectively bang our heads against a brick wall so that we can actually get done what needs to be done. That's partly on his plate. Although he mentioned in the article there are thousands of websites that need to be updated. There's only so much one man can do. I guess he's got a team with him as well. It just makes me think that the US really and this should be on his plate at some point in time. We should have a better procedure, right. For helping people with paper savings bonds in a, in a similar way to where we've actually finally allowed people to renew their passports online. Like, people are like, oh my gosh, thank goodness. Like you've. You're saving me so much, so much time and aggravation. And why can we not do the same thing with paper savings bonds? I would love to see that happen for Emily's sake. And for everyone else who has, like, old savings bonds and they're like, wait, I'm supposed to mail it into this random address and hope they send me my money? Fingers crossed. Yeah, exactly.

[Matt]

They should put the good stamps on there for that one. All right, let's hear from a listener who is looking to claw back some funds, some money from a healthcare provider.

[Podcast Announcer]

Hey, Matt and Joel, this is Megan from Portland, Oregon. I have a Frugal or cheap for you. Is it frugal or cheap to spend the time to dispute a very small medical charge? So to give some context, this past week I had to call my health insurance provider, Aetna, to dispute a bill for a whopping $3.60. I won't lie, I did feel a little silly calling to dispute or ask about this small of an amount. And me and the woman I talked to did have a good laugh about it. But I was being charged for part of what was supposed to be preventative blood work. And actually, this is the second time I've had to call them to dispute something that was supposed to be preventative care that was billed as out of pocket. I'm on an HSA plan, so I definitely see and question costs more probably than the average person, but both times were due to incorrect billing codes between the doctor's office and insurance company. In the previous instance, I had gotten an iud, which is considered preventative care, but they then charged me out of pocket $14 for a pregnancy test, which I didn't need but is required by law to get the procedure. And I found out that that was apparently not covered as preventative. So that was super fun and I was super frustrated. I've probably spent four hours or so working on these two charges. Both times I was able to get a reversal of them and they ended up covering them. But the reason I'm asking if this is frugal or cheap is because could I have spent that total $17.60 on the bills out of pocket? For sure I could have, but I think for me it's the principle of them just avoiding their due diligence and billing me for coverage that I have and I'm owed. So I'm wondering, is that frugal or cheap? Especially considering the amount of time it took me to get those charges reversed. As a side note, for fun, I did a little calculation and it looks like since that money did remain in my HSA account, which is invested, it should be worth a little over $500 when I retire. So I ask you frugal or cheap? Love all the work you guys do. Keep it up. Thanks so much.

[Matt]

So for fun, she crunched some numbers to calculate her compound.

[Joel]

For fun, she spent even more time. Megan on this small money decision.

[Matt]

Megan's all. She thinks the way I think. But that's what I like to do for.

[Joel]

Hey, you want to go watch a movie or something? No, I'm crunching numbers tonight.

[Matt]

Let me see what this would be in 30 years if were I to invest instead.

[Joel]

Hey, Matt, let's go get a beer. Nah, man. I'm crunching numbers about how much I'd have in my retirement account if I were to not spend money on that beer.

[Matt]

So the thing is, you are making fun of Megan.

[Joel]

No, I'm making fun of you. Yeah, not Megan. Megan's awesome.

[Matt]

But the truth is, Megan, I'm 100% with you. And that is totally what I absolutely love to do.

[Joel]

First, I wanna say I was reticent to take this question because the last time we took a healthcare frugal or cheap, we got raked over the coals.

[Matt]

Which one was it? The.

[Joel]

The one about whether or not you should allow the medical bill to go into collections. People on Facebook, Facebook group were not very happy with our response.

[Matt]

Oh, well, tough.

[Joel]

Yeah. I know. We're not. We're still gonna tell the truth. We're gonna tell the way we see it.

[Matt]

Yeah, Well, I mean, and if I was talking to somebody. Obviously it's different too if you're talking to somebody in person. And we try not to be too divisive, but I don't know, we also try not to. Try not to shy away from our opinion.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And we also followed up and explained why that. Hey, that's just a part of the. That's how the game's played. I don't like it. Oh, but you're perpetuating the system until the system changes or until you are willing to take up the banner and fight the good fight to change the system. We're going to abide by the rules that exist.

[Joel]

So my question for you is, is

[Matt]

it frugal or cheap?

[Joel]

Is it frugal or cheap? Like, what's your take? Because we're not talking about a whole lot of money. I guess 500 bucks over the course of decades. Right.

[Matt]

But I think it's cheap.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

I think it's cheap. Yeah. Yeah. So I. I was thinking about.

[Joel]

I said that sounded like you were on our side there at the beginning.

[Matt]

Well, I like. No, I like calculating compound interest over a course of time and to figure out what this could turn into. Like, that's like compounding magic. What's not to like about that? It's like every time I do it, I'm like, oh, I surprised myself. It's like a magic trick. And I'm. And I. And I never figure out how the trick is actually done because there is no trick. It's just compounding every now and again.

[Joel]

Are you like, what if I live to 200?

[Matt]

No, I never do that. I always cap it at around 100 because I'm like, well, that's just. There's no way I'm going to get to be older than that. Right. But I do think I was saying, like, Megan, this is like, unlike the last question where it's like, oh, some anxiety might provide some suboptimal returns. Like, she's thinking about it, but there's really nothing you can do about it. In this case, Megan's actual steps, the action that she took, gained her literal dollars back in her wallet.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And so I like that. I like that she's clawing this money back. But it's such a small claw. It's such, like in the arcade game, you know, like the little claw. This is like the tiniest of tiny toys. It's like a tiny little micro machine

[Joel]

that she's like, tight, getting the tiny green Pizza Planet alien.

[Matt]

It's a tight. It's like a tiny little piece of bazooka gum. My kindergartner gets bigger toys from his treasure box at the end of the week from his kindergarten teacher when he behaves. Well, dang, then Megan, I think, is getting here. So in that case, burn.

[Joel]

Matt.

[Matt]

I think it's. I think it's a little cheap because of how much time she spent.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

Right. And so when you take four hours into account, that's. That's too much for me.

[Joel]

I think I'm mostly in agreement. I will say a lot of people might be like, but the principal. Right. And the truth is the principal is often worth something. But how much is it worth? Like, my time is limited and I

[Matt]

had actually, four hours is a long time.

[Joel]

I had to call because there was like a little Medicare billing screw up this morning. I had to call the provider and I had to call Metashare. Okay. And I was annoyed and it did save me money because four hours, get it fixed. But no, no, no. It was more like 25, 30 minutes. Okay. But I. And it was like, enough money and it was enough of a frustration for me. I felt the need to call and I did get it corrected, and yeah, it didn't take too. Too much time.

[Matt]

Plus, you're like fodder for the show.

[Joel]

But if it had been. But if I wasn't even planning on mentioning it, but I did. And. But like, if it had been $8, I think I would have been like,

[Matt]

well, how much was the difference?

[Joel]

So it was. Well, I thought I was going to potentially save a couple hundred dollars. I saved about $125.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Joel]

So because there was still one charge, they were like, I'm sorry, we can't remove this.

[Matt]

And 125.

[Brian (Listener)]

I tried.

[Joel]

I tried.

[Matt]

But 125 is significantly more than $3.60.

[Joel]

Yes.

[Matt]

I'm just gonna say that if there

[Joel]

had been a $3.60 additional charge on my bill that I knew was not supposed to be there, I would not have called.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

It just wouldn't have been worth the time and the effort. And I would have let them keep their $3. That and I just would have known that I got swindled and I would have been okay with it.

[Matt]

It's different, too. I'm sure people are just like, oh, you guys are pretty quick to judge Megan when it comes to how she wants to spend her time. Because obviously there's certain things that we spend that I'll speak for myself that I spend inordinate amounts of time on that are kind of ridiculous, and I'm not saving all that much money. But it's because I have an interest in those things. Yeah, right. And so someone might say, oh, I remember you talking about plumbing out your laundry room to have a toilet in there. I don't know if folks remember that, but, yeah, that's something I did.

[Joel]

Everybody remembers that. They were hanging on your everywhere.

[Matt]

I had to research it. It took me time to go buy that 3 inch waistline from Home Depot. It was a pain in the butt to get in the van. But then of course, all the time that it took to actually do the thing, and it's just like, maybe you should have just paid a plumber to do that. And guess what? You're probably right. Plus, my back really hurt because I was in the crawl space. Back was sore for a couple of days, but really enjoyed learning a trade. Essentially, I'm learning how to do something that I've never done before. And it's a skill that I've added to the system. It's like a system upgrade. And now I know that anytime there's a potential plumbing issue that I have the capacity to be able to tackle that myself. And so in the moment, was it worth it for me to do that? Probably not, but I was interested in it and I was able to learn something. And in a similar case, I think if Megan is saying, well, I actually spent a decent amount on healthcare, different healthcare expenses, it's something I'm interested in. I like to help my friends. Maybe she might have the capacity to create some videos, some content, and she's sharing it with other people out there online. Right.

[Joel]

Here's how you fight the man, too.

[Matt]

Yes. These are all great reasons for her to pick up the $3.60 off the sidewalk. Right. And granted, if it was that easy, I would do that too.

[Joel]

If it's a five minute phone call, I'd do it. If it's gonna take longer than that,

[Matt]

though, I'm just not.

[Joel]

I'm just not interested.

[Matt]

Although five minutes to me is the equivalent of bending over and picking up some money you find on the sidewalk. But, like, But I also. It doesn't take me four hours to pick up money off the sidewalk. Right.

[Joel]

I think I also admire Megan for this though, too, because we live in an era of extreme convenience and where people will pay significant amounts of money to make anything in their life easier. And Megan's taking the exact opposite approach. And I think we do need.

[Matt]

Megan does hard things sometimes.

[Joel]

We need some warriors out there, man, to do a little bit differently and to kind of toe the old school line. Because so many folks are just like, I'm gonna take the easy approach. Oh, buy now, pay later for everything on planet Earth. Great, let's go for it. And so there is something about that tenaciousness that she's exhibiting that I think will infiltrate into other areas of life. I just.

[Matt]

I like that grit.

[Joel]

Yes. What? I just don't. What I want for you, Megan, is to not waste or to use to spend hours of your time in a way that might not, like, be tenacious in other areas that are gonna create more advantage for you instead of spending it on this, which is going to provide such a little return. I do love, too, that she was thinking about, well, how much will this money be worth down the line? Like the time value of money? That's an important thing to take into consideration in almost everything we do. But, yeah, like, I don't know. I still wouldn't. I still wouldn't have taken this approach. But I'm not mad at Megan for doing it either.

[Matt]

Yeah. Because she was able to learn something. But I also don't want her to be pennywise pound foolish. You gotta look at the big picture. And so like what you're saying, what if she'd spent four hours on her job, like knocking out some sort of or getting something really teed up for a presentation. I don't know if she's some. She's got like a fancy job where you present stuff.

[Joel]

I don't make it a piece of art. I don't know.

[Matt]

Or like, I don't know. To me, that might be a better use of time. But again, I don't know her motives and I don't know what she's planning to do.

[Joel]

What if you're going for a hunt and you're just on hold while you're hiking and you're like just listening to the background music? You know, like if you're doing something else productive. But if you're like sitting there fuming at your kitchen countertop, probably another reason to do it.

[Matt]

But then if you're on hold, that means you can't listen to the birds chirping, the audiobook that you might be listening to as well, or the birds chirping either way.

[Joel]

All right, we got more questions to get to. We'll talk about how to replace a kitchen appliance wisely. We'll talk about that and more right after this. You love what you do. You also love the idea of not doing it one day. But it's getting harder to know the best way to move into the future towards retirement. Right. We hear about inflation, rate hikes, the changing market, got to get kids through college, build an emergency fund, and then there's retirement. Yeah.

[Matt]

Here is where Fidelity comes in, though. Fidelity can help you to find clarity and saving for the future, even as your path and your priorities evolve. How? Well, they'll help you to create a free, personalized plan that adapts as your priorities change. They'll also show you what's called timely insights, small tips on ways to save and invest to help meet your goals. And you can monitor your plan so you stay on target.

[Joel]

The future is coming and so is retirement. Fidelity can help you take it on your way. Learn [e-mail] future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services member NYSE SIPC

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

All right, we're back from the break. Joel, we're going to hear from Ken, specifically via Facebook. Question of the Week Ken wrote, I recently changed my 401k investment from a target date fund to being 100% invested in the S&P 500. I made this change after listening to the podcast and getting similar advice from other sources. Is anyone else invested solely in the S&P 500 for retirement investments? And if so, how do you plan on rebalancing throughout the decades? For reference, I just turned 35 and so will probably have at least 30 years before retirement. What you think, Joel? The S&P 500? You know what my answer is going to be.

[Joel]

Yeah, we know where you are. I'm pitching it over to you all in on that.

[Matt]

I love it.

[Joel]

I just, I want to say first, I made a very similar move when I was younger. I was younger than 35. I was probably late 20s right where I was. I had been investing in Target Date funds because that was kind of the predominant advice I had heard for a long time from smart people. And it was easy and straightforward. And I was like, great, okay, I'll do that. That sounds smart and it's not.

[Matt]

Set it and forget it, baby.

[Joel]

It's not unsmart automatic. It's certainly not stupid like it's not a ridiculous thing to do, but it was the more I learned and dug in and did my own research. Too conservative for what I was trying to accomplish. And so my Target Date Fund was with Vanguard. The costs were reasonable for that. They were pretty inexpensive. I just wanted to be more stock heavy than what a 2065 target date fund offering even the furthest out Target Date Fund. Sorry, it just wasn't, it was too conservative for what I needed. I just had so many decades similar to Ken before I needed the money. I had at least three decades. I probably had three and a half decades before I needed the money. Having more bonds in my portfolio to smooth the ride and create less volatility, which, which meant worse overall returns over a long period of time. That just wasn't something I cared about. I was willing to take that increased volatility if it meant that I could harness the greater returns in the years to come. I think for most folks, and this is why we talk about it this way on the podcast, for most folks in the wealth building phase of their lives, this is a simplified portfolio that makes a lot of sense, especially when we're talking in your 20s and 30s and very early 40s when you're a long time off from needing it straight UP. S&P 500 or total stock market exposure can be brilliant.

[Matt]

Yeah, absolutely. You're talking about some of the changes that you've made. I'm guessing those were made in an effort to have a bit more small cap after talking with Paul Merriman, maybe a little more international exposure. We've talked about that here on the show. But for Ken, I don't think there's much need to make any serious changes when you have over 30 years before you're likely to retire. Because when we talk about rebalancing, we're typically talking about selling shares of a fund that's been crushing it and buying more in a fund that we own that's been underperforming. And in this case, though, Ken, like, you only own one fund. So when you are ready to change some of your exposure, the best way is likely going to be to use any new investment dollars to just slowly move yourself in the direction that you want to go. And so whether that's buying more international funds, whether that's maybe going back to the target date funds or maybe just going with a total bond index, something else like that. But doing that with new dollars as opposed to some sort of drastic sort of sell off and switch is I think would be perfectly warranted Especially assuming too that I mean, so you are, oh, you just earned 35. I don't know how many dollars you already have set aside. But, but I'm guessing, I mean for most folks this stage of life, right from 35 up to about age 60, like these are your high earning years. And so you can still get plenty of that aggressive growth, large cap growth with some of the new dollars that you're looking to invest.

[Joel]

Yeah, I like what you said too. Just changing your inflows into more conservative assets over time that can have a big impact. Right. So maybe you in so much depends on how much money you've got built up and when you plan on retiring and tapping those funds. But you might say, all right, at age 50, like I'm going to start transitioning instead of buying more S&P 500 because I've got so much S&P 500 exposure, that's when I'm going to start buying Target Date Fund to kind of smooth things out. Or that's when I'm going to start buying more a bond fund from Vanguard or something like that to smooth things out. So I'm not. So I'm less and less stock heavy over the years. Some folks who are amassing a nest egg, they'll never be able to fully spend, opt to stay more stock heavy, prioritizing growth over de risking. So it might also be they know

[Matt]

they're going to have legacy essentially. Yeah.

[Joel]

So if you're like, I don't know, man, I've been able to amass a lot more than I know I'll ever be able to spend. In fact, I don't care to have any sort of to de risk in any way. And I know that a lot of this money is going to be given away or left to future generations. A lot of people who essentially over save and over invest are able to have a riskier portfolio specifically because they're not as worried about downturns because they don't need that money in the way that somebody who's dialing it in perfectly does. Yeah.

[Matt]

And there's something too about like, I've got money in my brokerage account that I'm pretty sure I'm going to probably like definitely tap before my retirement years. But like I'm thinking I'm like, oh, maybe even within like the next 10 years. And guess what it's invested in Joel. Yeah, the S and P 500 all the way. Still, there's still there because there's, and we were joking about this earlier, right, that like A coach retirement looks a lot different than the traditional retirement. There is something about putting that money on the line, going for the big growth, taking the gamble a little bit. And when the time comes, it sort of forces you to be in a position of productivity. And that's not something I hate. And I.

[Joel]

You pick up, tell me more.

[Matt]

Pick up on the, on the double negative there. But essentially realizing that, well, I want to be able to continue to be productive and provide value to society. So how will society then be rewarding me for that? It sort of puts you in a position. It's like, well, the money's there obviously, right. Like, so if you have enough set aside, markets down, if you need to take it, it not perfectly ideal from a timing standpoint, but it's still there. So there's a difference between doing that and like going to Vegas. Of course, right. Like you can take this very far extreme version of this sort of conversation, but I don't know, we'll continue to keep folks posted as we ourselves get closer and closer to what, not just coast fire, because we've talked about how we're essentially coast fire. I mean for a couple. I'll speak for myself, you know, for the past couple years. But even what that looks like as we kind of get into our middle aged years, Joel, our middle aged years, that's what we're, that's where we're at.

[Joel]

Well, and I will recommend a book to Ken, the Simple Path to Wealth by J.L. collins, because he talks a lot about the wealth building phase of your life, the wealth preservation phase of your life. And that's why I think those terms are better than anything else because specific age brackets. Sorry, that doesn't do enough. Right. To inform us because if you started investing when you were 45, you're in your 48, you're in the wealth building phase of your life. If you started investing when you were 19 and you're 48, you might be getting closer to the wealth preservation stage of your life. Right. So it doesn't matter that you're 48. Like so much of it about is about how long you've been investing, what you've been able to amass and what sort of risk appetite you have moving into the years coming up.

[Matt]

Sure.

[Joel]

All right, let's get to our next question. Matt, our last question from Ashley. She says hi. Our kitchen refrigerator unexpectedly died. I know the best way to shop for any big ticket item is proactively, but unfortunately this will not be the case. I'm here looking for tips Tips, tricks, recommendations, brands to avoid, brands to consider, anything to help us make a good purchase. And bonus, if we can save money or get great points somewhere, we're taking the opportunity to get a water hookup installed that is clutch. Oh yeah. Have the water in your fridge. But yeah, so we can finally have water and ice dispenser. We're in our first owned home and have never had this luxury before. But I guess also looking for feedback for pros and cons on that. I know, for example, my mom always had problems with her ice maker and deeply regretted getting it. It constantly leaked and caused issues. Matt, I just want to say those minor luxury upgrades, it's so nice to make something really small. Like I remember my first house with Em, we didn't have a dishwasher and we had to wash dishes by hand. And I remember how much I appreciated that dishwasher in the next house that we bought because we didn't have one for so long. And so like, it's like, oh, just something as simple as a water line to the fridge.

[Matt]

Oh, no. Water line hookups are huge.

[Joel]

So many of us take for granted.

[Matt]

Oh my gosh.

[Joel]

Oh, dude. We didn't have one in that house because we had like the ice cube trays that we had to freeze.

[Matt]

No, I am a massive. So absolutely. So not only get the waterline hookup, but I will say, I mean, especially if you have kids, if you want them to be able to get their own cups of water, which let me just tell you, yes, you do get a fridge that has the water spout thing on the outside of the fridge because a lot of the fancier, newer French door refrigerators sometimes will put it on the inside. Gotta say, man, I don't like that. It's like you're letting out all the energy. You got to open the door and then the door doesn't get shut and it starts beeping at you.

[Joel]

Personally, I do hate the beeping door.

[Matt]

People don't like how it looks to have that little lever, the paddle there on the outside. I, I'm a huge fan of it. But aside from that, that's just my personal. That's my personal opinion. But head over to Consumer Reports and just figure out which. Yeah, take a look at the ones that get the best reviews because unfortunately some of like you're talking about the fancy fridges joint. A lot of times those are the ones that get the worst ratings. Right? Like the bells and whistles. They might seem like fun, but they can be really expensive to repair. Some of that has to do with water. She was talking about her mom, whose ice maker had had problems. A lot of that has to do with scaling in the water. These are all things I've learned recently. And you can get a special filter that removes the calcium, which is what causes scaling, and replace it with magnesium. So it's a similar element. People are like, what does Matt spend all this time doing? It's researching stuff like this of water quality.

[Joel]

Well, in part, you really could have like a home Fix it podcast if you wanted to.

[Matt]

I, I like the things I like and so when I, when I'm fine, when I find myself interested in something, I kind of go. Go whole hog or whatever. But, but yeah, I think that's a great place to start because you can get some unbiased opinions and testing that's been performed by a fantastic third party, isn't it? Consumer Reports.

[Joel]

Interesting that the fancier you go oftentimes the more maintenance, the more expensive it is to repair.

[Matt]

Like money, more problems. That feels like this.

[Joel]

That's the way it is with cars these days too, right? And that's, that's like we've talked about that kind of on repeat in fairly recently and regularly over the life of the show. It's like, oh yeah, get the newer fancier cars and not only are you just like spending a lot of money or maybe paying more in insurance, but then also when it comes to repairs, like a lot of these repairs, you can't, you can't do them yourself anymore on these cars or they've just become a lot more costly. Where you buy your fridge matters too. Actually, we should mention this. And it's not just because I'm a homer for Costco, but it's also because I'm a homer for Costco. That's the first place I'd look. This because they offer a 90 day return window, which is basically superior to any other store you're buying an appliance from. And if you're having trouble with the new fridge, you get it in. You're like, gosh, this is having issues. I don't know what's going on. Take it back and you have a long enough window. Right.

[Matt]

It's a lot easier to do that than have to mess with the actual one year manufacturer's warranty. Like you've got a physical store, somebody who you can reach out to.

[Joel]

That's right. Right. On top of that, the big box home improvement retailers are often going to charge you to haul away and to install a new appliance at Costco, all that stuff's included.

[Matt]

The big box retailers used to do

[Joel]

the all inclusive thing. They don't anymore. You have to pay extra for that. So there's often extra warranty coverage on top of that, like an additional year of a manufacturer's warranty. So when you factor in all of those things, yeah, you might get a slightly better price elsewhere, but you also might not. And so this is. Yeah, if you're a Costco member. I think the reason to go in that direction. Sam's club is solid as well. So I would. I would look to both of the warehouse clubs ultimately for. For some of the best appliance deals.

[Matt]

Absolutely. Also don't sleep on the volume of the fridge and freezer like the total cubic feet because you'd be surprised at the difference between some of the. And like the footprint is the same for the most part, but just how they insulated and divvy up the space. I remember specifically the last fridge we purchased, which was unfortunately at our old house. We scoured not only Consumer Reports and make sure we had the ones that were the best and most highly reviewed, but also the ones that had the largest amount of cubic square feet or whatever inside of it because there is a pretty big range and we wanted to make sure that we could get as much stuff in there as possible.

[Joel]

And I'll say the one that we have in our house, which was there when we bought it, same sucks. It's so bad.

[Matt]

Is it just from what reason?

[Joel]

Because it's poorly designed. It doesn't have enough actual storage space in the fridge.

[Matt]

So same. Yeah. Ours is easily less than the more affordable fridge that we used to own at our old house. And I kind of wish we would have had that. We would have that old one because I know we would be able to fit more in that fridge. Even though I will say we've got this fancy fridge currently that was in the house when we got it where you knock on the window, it lights up. The kids do it all the time.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

See if their water bottles are in there or if there's a drink in there for them. That is ridiculous. But it's. Don't think I would have chosen it, but it's there. Anyway. Let's shift to the beer. Joel, the beer that you and I enjoyed was a blonde fat ale, which is a Belgian style blonde ale by again Back Pocket Brewing.

[Joel]

What'd you think? Well, we don't drink many blonde ales, Matt, but this was bigger and more robust than most blond ales. I swear Most are just like, more like chiller, thinner.

[Matt]

This drink, more like a strong, golden.

[Joel]

Yeah, yeah, it was really good. It was big in like a mouth punchy, blondie sort of way. And this is not my favorite style of beer, but this is one of my favorite beers in this style I think, that I've ever had. So I'm not like, oh, line me up for a blond ale every night. But if you're gonna give me a blond ale, give me this one. It's delicious.

[Matt]

A little bit bigger. I just realized that, too. Yeah, yeah. Banana, left and right, like all the way banana. It's got those Belgian yeasts for sure. It was very warming as well. It just kind of had some of these warming notes and qualities to it. But personally, really enjoyed this one. I feel like I could. I could go on an entire tour of Eastern Europe. Is that where all the Belgian beers are? Is Belgium. Belgium considered to be in Eastern Europe?

[Joel]

No, I don't think so.

[Matt]

Eastern is like Romania.

[Joel]

Yeah. No, it's not. It's Western.

[Matt]

It's just. Is it Western or is it just like right in the middle?

[Joel]

I mean, I don't know. I think it's Western Europe.

[Matt]

I just picture it being like, super

[Joel]

close to, like, Amsterdam.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

France.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I don't know my European geography. I took AP US History, Joel, not European history.

[Joel]

We can work on that.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. There's still time.

[Joel]

All right, that's going to do it for this episode. Thanks as always for listening. We'll have links in the show notes to some of the resources that we mentioned. All right, Matty, until next time. Best friends out.

[Matt]

Best friends out. Is it just me or is it getting really hard to figure out the best way to save for retirement? Well, Fidelity can help you to find clarity. So you can save the best way for you. With a free personalized plan, goal tracking and timely insights, you'll be set to take on retirement your way.

[Joel]

Get [e-mail] future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services member NYSE SIPC

[Matt]

Struggling to see up close? Make it visible with viz. VIZ is a once daily prescription eye drop to treat blurry near vision for up to 10 hours. The most common side effects that may be experienced while using VIZ include eye irritation, temporary dim or dark vision, headaches, and eye redness. Talk to an eye doctor to learn if VIZ is right for you. Learn [e-mail] Cantu heard you loud and

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