Ask HTM Anything! #1000

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Money – Episode #1000: Ask HTM Anything!

Introduction

In the milestone 1000th episode of How to Money, hosts Joel and Matt pivot from their usual financial discussions to a special "Ask Me Anything" (AMA) format. This celebratory episode delves into a variety of personal topics, offering listeners an intimate glimpse into the hosts' lives beyond personal finance. Released on June 23, 2025, the episode marks a significant achievement for the podcast, underscoring its commitment to providing relatable and unbiased financial guidance.

Celebrating 1000 Episodes

From the outset, Joel and Matt express their excitement and gratitude for reaching this monumental milestone. Joel muses on their journey, saying, "Who else would you celebrate it with? There's no one else" ([03:04]). Matt echoes this sentiment, highlighting the unpredictability of hitting 1,000 episodes and emphasizing the role of their loyal listeners: "For some reason they love us or like us enough" ([03:27]).

Listener Questions and Hosts' Answers

The heart of this episode revolves around listener-submitted questions, which range from light-hearted inquiries to deeper, more personal topics. Joel and Matt aim to address as many questions as possible, fostering a sense of community and transparency with their audience.

---

Life and Career Questions

One listener, Allison, proposed a creative idea: "Why don't you and Matt go on a nationwide tour and hang, party, barbecue, drink, craft beer all around the country" ([07:12]). Joel responds positively but notes the logistical challenges, especially with family responsibilities: "The tough thing, it's gonna be hard to, like, leave the fam for that long" ([07:26]).

Travis asked about the best half marathons in Georgia suitable for runners accustomed to New York weather. Joel recommended the Helen Trail Half Marathon, praising its scenic mountainous trails and favorable April conditions: "It's beautiful... a great time of year where it's kind of cool, but it's not cold and it's not hot" ([16:11]).

---

Personal Interests and Hobbies

Rebecca inquired about the hosts' favorite board games. Matt proudly declares his love for "Settlers of Catan" ([12:20]), while Joel shares his preference for "King Domino" and "Acquire," highlighting the strategic and unpredictable elements that make these games engaging ([13:10]).

Jenny's question about opening a brewery reveals Joel and Matt's appreciation for craft beer and community-focused spaces. Joel envisions a brewery known for its friendliness and hazy IPAs, aiming to create a welcoming environment: "Just being super friendly with everybody who walks in and having a community, like a cheers-like joint" ([10:07]). Matt adds his dream of incorporating local farm ingredients and natural scenery, inspired by breweries like Hill Farmstead and Jester King ([11:28]).

---

Friendship Dynamics

Jeffrey posed a question about whether Joel and Matt ever get on each other's nerves and how they navigate such moments. Matt emphasizes the importance of prioritizing their friendship over business: "Working with your best friend can work as long as you prioritize the friendship above the business" ([32:16]). They discuss the depth of their bond, likening it to a familial relationship and stressing the significance of mutual respect and space: "Neither you nor I have brothers... it helps to, you know, you kind of overlook the different flaws that maybe the other guy has" ([38:28]).

---

Family and Parenting

Leslie's question about predictions for their children's futures leads to heartfelt reflections. Joel hopes for his children's enduring bonds and observes, "I think our oldest girls will retain it more than any of the rest of them" ([52:21]). Matt shares his aspirations for a large, joyful family, expressing a desire to become a grandparent and to see his children flourish: "I think that our boys are three days apart... I wish I would have been more thoughtful about that" ([52:27]).

---

Bucket Lists and Regrets

Jenny asked about creating a bucket list, prompting Joel to share his aspirations, such as a hot air balloon ride and hiking the Camino de Santiago with his father: "Hot air balloon ride... I want to hike the Camino. Santiago, preferably with my dad" ([19:26]). Matt expressed his reluctance towards bucket lists, preferring organic experiences over structured goals: "I hate the bucket list methodology" ([19:35]).

In response to the question about regrets, Joel reflects on the importance of taking responsibility and approaching loved ones with humility: "The biggest thing I've learned... to take more responsibility for my actions and to approach the people I love with more humility" ([66:23]). Matt emphasizes personal growth through past mistakes: "You can't you take, like, the judo move and, like, use the momentum of that bad decision to make" ([66:22]).

---

Miscellaneous Questions

Katie's query about collecting local folk art leads Joel to offer practical tips: "Try to find a festival in your area... you'll find it. You'll be exposed to a bunch of new folks" ([47:50]). Matt contributes by suggesting local galleries as a venue to discover and support artists.

Megan's question about becoming an expert in something obscure had Matt contemplating woodworking and the blend of form and function, while Joel expressed interest in gardening despite not having a green thumb: "I would love woodworking, but highly... What better way to enjoy something than using it" ([50:23]) and "If I was instantly an expert at gardening and I could like do it flawlessly, that'd be kind of cool" ([51:42]).

---

Discussion on Sabbatical Plans

Towards the episode's conclusion, Joel and Matt discuss their upcoming sabbatical plans. Joel expresses excitement about slowing down and enjoying the mundane joys of life: "Just some time alone and... experiencing the joy in the mundane" ([73:02]). Matt looks forward to embarking on an East Coast road trip with his family, appreciating the opportunity to explore and create lasting memories: "We've never taken a longer road trip... we've been getting more and more into the planning aspect of it" ([71:29]).

Conclusion

As they wrap up this extensive AMA episode, Joel and Matt reiterate their gratitude towards their listeners and share their excitement for the break ahead. They encourage listeners to continue engaging with the podcast and hint at returning with fresh content in early August. Concluding with heartfelt messages and a touch of humor, the hosts reflect on their enduring friendship and the journey that brought them to this significant 1000-episode milestone.

Notable Quotes

• "Who else would you celebrate it with? There's no one else." — Joel ([03:04])
• "If you really want to see joy, then I think it is going to involve a certain amount of letting down, putting aside what you care about the most in favor of watching other people and helping other people in your life succeed." — Joel ([68:35])
• "Working with your best friend can work as long as you prioritize the friendship above the business." — Matt ([38:28])
• "The toughest thing, it's gonna be hard to, like, leave the fam for that long." — Matt ([07:26])
• "I hate the bucket list methodology." — Matt ([19:35])

Timestamp Highlights

• [07:12]: Listener Allison suggests a nationwide tour combining fun and fundraising.
• [12:20]: Rebecca asks about favorite board games; Matt favors "Settlers of Catan."
• [10:07]: Discussion on opening a community-focused brewery.
• [38:28]: Matt on maintaining friendship dynamics while working together.
• [52:21]: Predictions for their children's future relationships and careers.
• [66:23]: Joel reflects on personal growth and regrets.

This comprehensive episode not only celebrates a significant milestone for How to Money but also deepens the connection between the hosts and their audience by sharing personal stories, aspirations, and reflections. Whether you're a long-time listener or new to the podcast, episode #1000 offers valuable insights into the lives of Joel and Matt, enriching the overall How to Money experience.

Transcript

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[Joel]

Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I'm Matt and today we're celebrating episode.

[Joel]

1000 with an ask me Anything episode.

[Matt]

So should we have gotten some air horns to be able to be like in the background as we're celebrating this?

[Joel]

Hey, we should have gotten a live in studio audience, invited them up to.

[Matt]

Our clubhouse Listeners can't see me raising my glass, but. Cheers, buddy.

[Unknown]

Cheers.

[Matt]

Seriously, 1,000 episodes, it's incredible. Quite the milestone. I'm so glad that I could celebrate it with you specifically.

[Joel]

Who else would you celebrate it with? There's no one else. Yeah.

[Matt]

Never thought that we'd hit 1,000. Adam, did we celebrate when we hit 100?

[Joel]

I'm sure we did in some way.

[Matt]

And I think maybe we even contemplated when we hit 500 episodes. But 1,000, that's a serious landmark, milestone sort of episode, buddy.

[Joel]

Really be celebrating our listeners for putting up with us for this long and it wouldn't have been possible.

[Matt]

Keep listening. Because for some reason they love us or like us enough.

[Joel]

Like us enough. Yeah, love might. They're like, they're listening, right? And they're like, no, that feels love.

[Matt]

That feels a bit strong.

[Joel]

I like you. Okay. But no, there's. And so many good. But it's funny, I was listening to recently, Matt, there's this podcast called Econ Talk and it's like super nerdy, pointy headed economist podcast that's been around for almost 20 years. And Russ, the host over there, just celebrated his thousands episode. And so I was listening to his and he took questions from CH GPT and he was like. Which I thought was like interesting, especially for what he does and the style of show that he creates.

[Matt]

But for us, we like hearing from the people.

[Joel]

The people's questions. Yes, that's what I wanted because actually I did real quick. I looked up on ChatGPT, like, what questions would you ask Matt and Joel celebrating their thousands episode?

[Matt]

Interesting. What came up.

[Joel]

They were super lame and basic. I was like, the questions our listeners sent in are way better than that.

[Matt]

Much more personality.

[Joel]

Yeah. So we got. Thank you, by the way, for submitting those questions. We will get to as many as humanly possible.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Joel]

Over the course of this episode.

[Matt]

Did you want to share. So last week's. So it was last Friday's episode with Jillian. We talked about the sabbaticals. Do we want to. Should we share now or at the end of the episode? Kind of the plan.

[Joel]

Let's do it at the end. We'll talk about our sabbatical at the end.

[Matt]

Stick around. But let's maybe listen to last Friday's episode if you haven't already listened to the sabbatical episode. Also, let us know what you thought of that format. We totally switched things up and took a very unstructured kind of casual approach to it.

[Joel]

And granted, more organic.

[Matt]

Yeah. And granted that particular topic allowed us to do something like that. But yeah, I'm curious to see if listeners were drawn to that because I think there are different ways that we could tweak the show in the future, which honestly. And we're trying all sorts of new things.

[Joel]

Yeah, now is as good a time as ever to consider what the show looks like moving forward because we've been doing the same way for a long time and we've made iterations over these last seven plus years.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Joel]

But we will probably make more and more just to try to, I don't know, be relevant and stick with the times.

[Matt]

And maybe we're not necessarily wedded to a singular format or just how we've done things in the past.

[Joel]

My biggest question for people is, is the intro too long? Do we need to cut the music back? Like, should we just get straight to it?

[Matt]

That's why I intentionally did not include the music on Jillian's episode. And I just liked how he just kind of kicked things off because it reminds me of some of my favorite shows that are a little more personal in nature where it sounds like you're just joining the conversation as opposed to feeling like something has been dished up, set on the plate perfectly for you like a maitre d at some super fancy Michelin star restaurant. It's all perfect. As opposed to, hey, how about you jump into the kitchen here and let's throw some food on the plate.

[Joel]

Should we. Should we under produce a little more basically, is what you're saying, I don't know, maybe a little more rustic.

[Matt]

Obviously there's different reasons for us to consider that, but yeah, this is an ama an ask me anything. And specifically we asked listeners to reach out with questions that they might have had for us that were specifically non financial in nature. Some kind of slipped through the cracks and found their way into some of the money questions. Slipped through the cracks. Well, we love, we'll still get to those.

[Joel]

We love your money questions and we want to take those moving forward post sabbatical with regularity. It's super fun and we'll get back to that. The heart of the show, how to money. But it's really fun when you have other questions for us that don't align with personal finance. And this is just like the rare opportunity to dig into those questions that you have and hopefully we'll have even more of these in the future. But this is. I'm looking forward to this totally.

[Matt]

And we have a ton of questions and so we're actually not going to play the any voice memos we're going to read the questions. That way, we can get to as many different topics as possible. Joel, you want to kick it off?

[Joel]

Yeah, let's do it. All right. This one came from Allison. She says, why don't you and Matt go on a nationwide tour and hang, party, barbecue, drink, craft beer all around the country. You could even incorporate some fundraising along the way, maybe for some nonprofits that help underserved kids learn about money. If you come to Sacramento, she says, I will help organize, which is enticing, because organization, not my strong suit.

[Matt]

Man. How's this sound to you? Would you. Would you be down for this?

[Joel]

Well, I think so. I really like the idea. One, I like the idea of nonprofits raising money. I like the idea of a nationwide tour. The tough thing, it's gonna be hard to, like, leave the fan for that long.

[Matt]

That is the first thing that went through my mind, like, or maybe we.

[Joel]

Set to get a giant RV altogether.

[Matt]

How do money across America.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

If it truly. If it wasn't for the kids and for Kate, because I don't think they would necessarily want to, like, be dragged along, like, towed along the entire country.

[Joel]

Sure.

[Matt]

While we went and did these fun things, like, I would, like, when I travel with them, I want to be able to do things with them. And I don't think that it's a cop out, but I do think that if I were in a completely different stage of life, if I. If we didn't have kids, and I think our wives would even be more on board with, like, going along and just kind of doing whatever the four of us, along the way.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But so much of my time now, I am so focusing on being able to do stuff at home. Like, garbage time is a phrase that I keep coming back to that I am really enjoying because we.

[Joel]

Sports reference. Right. When there's, like. There's, like, two minutes left on the clock and you can't, like, it's. It's the.

[Matt]

I didn't realize that that's where it came from. I just knew that the. The Seinfeld mentioned. That's my garbage time.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

Is that.

[Joel]

Well, that's usually, like, the.

[Matt]

Is that what he was.

[Joel]

Remnants of the game that feel unimportant. But there's a lot of importance in those moments. Yeah.

[Matt]

Yeah. And so a lot of times, like, the way he describes it is that we put so much hope on these massive trips or the big events or the what? The big turning 16. You get your car, whatever. All these other things as Opposed to the in between moments kind of sprinkled throughout life, which is where the real sort of living happens and how in particular, I think our kids form their memories. Like, it is the. It makes me think of like a science fair project. Like the poster board.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

It's like the backboard. It's like you, like, that has to be there in order to pin the bigger things in life too. It's like the substrate of our life.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And a lot of times we're trying to get rid of the garbage time and like, oh, I wish life was just more efficient, but I think so much of the beauty. Not to get overly philosophical right out of the gate here, but I feel like so much of that is what makes life amazing.

[Joel]

Like, I less remember my dad teaching me how to drive and more him throwing me in the pool. And like, throwing me in the pool is like, is a garbage time sort of thing. So I get what you're saying. I think, though, what resonates with me about this question and the thing, the hardest part of podcasting is that we get to meet so few listeners. And every once in a while we do. Matt, we went to a soccer game recently and we ran into a listener. We're talking to him and somebody, another listener was walking by, and I was.

[Matt]

Like, oh, I forgot about that.

[Joel]

I just wish I had more run ins with listeners. And so, because it is a joy, they're always cool and they're always, like, kind and conscientious. And so I do wish I had. I got to meet more of you.

[Matt]

All right. Juliana wrote, if you two were to open a brewery, what would it be known for? So specialty beer type, location, environment, entertainment, whatever feature. Joel, this isn't something that we've talked about. So what would you. Were you to open a brewery? I think what aspects would you want to focus on?

[Joel]

I think friendliness and haze is. Are the two things I really thought about.

[Matt]

And hazy IPAs specifically, and then a friendly, fun spot.

[Joel]

I mean, if you've been to many craft breweries, a lot of them, there's a lot of cool people, but sometimes they're too cool for school. And I love the idea of just being super friendly with everybody who walks in and having a community, like a cheers like joint for people to enjoy a deliciously crafted beer, but also, like, get to know people.

[Matt]

That's what's so great about breweries. Is that too cool for school aspect kind of goes out the window after you have like one beer, and then you're like, all right, we Used to, you know, 30 minutes ago I was feeling kind of snobby. But yeah, let me give you a hug. I would. So you've not been to Fonta Flora up in North Carolina. From a vibe standpoint, that would be the kind of brewery that I would love to open. Like the intersection of food and drink and like nature and like, like farm fresh ingredients that they're using a lot of local ingredients to make to make their beers. It makes me think of during our road trip next month, I'm hoping to make it up to Hill Farmstead, which I think a lot of breweries across the country have kind of based their operation on that, which is like, it's on a farm, it's out in the country. Like Hill Farmstead. It looks like an old cedar shake house essentially, you know, and it just looks so approachable, so cool. The intersection of nature and local farm. Like ingredients incorporating that into that. That is the kind of like where.

[Joel]

You'Re able to Jester King in Texas too. Oh, yes, that's gonna be another one.

[Matt]

Have you been to Jester King? No, I still make it out there. No, they've got an incredible farm sort of set up as well. I've yet to make it there, but that's the kind of vibe I'd wanna go for. That, like, plus some scenery. I don't know, maybe some hiking trails as well. If you're like, you know what, let me. I'm gonna walk this beer off and like the ability to hit some trails. How cool does that sound?

[Joel]

That'd be killer, huh? So that's awesome. No, I like that.

[Matt]

That plus. Okay, so style, barrel age, stuff. Like for me, I don't even think I care either barrel age sours or barrel aged stouts. But I would want to be in charge of the barrel program. Just that white oak.

[Joel]

What about barrel aged pilsners, do they do that? I've never had one.

[Matt]

Yeah, what's the British innocent gun?

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

Yeah, those are European lagers or pills that are slightly aged in oak at least.

[Joel]

All right, this next question comes from Rebecca. She says, what's your favorite board game?

[Matt]

Settlers of Catan.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

All the way.

[Joel]

Still, that's like the OG that's the classic. I mean, that has to have sold more copies. That's the OG of the strategy board games than any other one.

[Matt]

And the fact we've been playing it more because we've got Catan Jr. Which is what we've been playing with the kids. And it's one of the few that we can all sit down and play together. I know the ghost captain.

[Joel]

I know the reason you like it.

[Matt]

Just to be able to stop them.

[Joel]

Well, you like the trash talk and you like the negotiation and you like to be a little underhanded at times and you get to use those skills. You don't normally get to use the underhanded nature in everyday life, but in Catan you do.

[Matt]

It's a free market. You don't have to trade with me. Trade with me. I'm gonna put the trade out there, actually. So I'm trying to get the kids. I'm trying to encourage the kids to participate in person to person trading within Catan Jr. Because they're like, it's not a part of the rules. I'm like, I'm pretty sure you can do that if everyone agrees to it.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So I've yet to win that. That argument.

[Joel]

What about you in the rules? Board games, man. There have been different ones over the years depending on how much time I had in my life. And King Domino is one that's like short replayable but doesn't get boring. So I love that one. And yeah, if it takes 20 minutes, I'm more likely to play it. I used to love four or five hour long board games. Just ain't happening these days. But when we do go on vacation together, the one that we play, you, me, Kate and Emily, we typically play Acquire. And that's a really fun one, especially with our love of real estate. I like that one. And you kind of also.

[Matt]

The merging of corporations and sometimes you.

[Joel]

Don'T know who's gonna win until the very end. It feels like maybe you have an idea, but not really. So I like that too, that it's just kind of shrouded in mystery for a while.

[Matt]

By the way, we didn't even introduce our beer at the very beginning. We're totally just like throwing things upside down. But this one, just so folks know that we are in fact enjoying a hazy ipa. This is called Dark Hedges, which is a beer by Hot butcher for the world. We might even get to a second one here. Towards the end of the episode.

[Joel]

We drink two beers today. All right, so Susan wants to know, what's your favorite distance to run? Would either of you ever run? Want to run?

[Matt]

An ultramarathon favorite distance is easy. 10k. I love the 10k. Yeah, it's like, I don't know, it's the perfect distance because it's not so short. Like with a 5k, you're almost like sprinting the whole time. Whereas a 10k, you get into that rhythm. I like finding that rhythm.

[Joel]

It's easier to keep going at 10k pace because 5k pace is just a little bit.

[Matt]

You're kind of constantly pushing yourself.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

It's like, as if the masters were. What's the line from Legolas from the Two Towers?

[Joel]

Oh, I don't remember, but I'm reading.

[Matt]

Run as if their masters are at their backs.

[Joel]

I'm reading the first book in that trilogy right now.

[Matt]

Are you enjoying the heck out of it?

[Joel]

Yeah, I'm almost done with it. I'll move on to two once it's available on Libby.

[Matt]

I remember you mentioned that, but, yeah, we'll have to catch up.

[Joel]

I would say my favorite right now is the half marathon because I'm just 13.1. I'm built more for long distances. I'm not super speedy. So the 5K, I'm like. I'm like huffing wind because I'm just not fast. But I'm like, I can outlast people now.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

I can just go longer.

[Matt]

Keep going.

[Joel]

Yeah. And ultra marathon. Oh, I don't know if I see that in my future.

[Matt]

I'd like to.

[Joel]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Matt]

I told. I mean, I would like to, but.

[Joel]

How much do I have?

[Matt]

What it takes to actually run a 50k or 100k? I don't know, man.

[Joel]

It's a lot of time required to train for that level of. Of run too. So, I mean, you have to have, like 10 hours a week set aside.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Just for running to train for an ultra.

[Matt]

Not to mention all the time that. The additional time that you're spending icing yourself down, hitting it with the massage.

[Joel]

Gun, stretching, all that stuff.

[Matt]

Oh, my God. I can see myself being an old man ultra marathoner. Like, once the kids are out of the house and I've got a lot more time on my hands, I want to be one of those old grizzly. Just dudes that look like he's about to die.

[Joel]

Don't stomp till you die. Yes.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

All right. Travis says, what's the best half marathon in Georgia for runners training in New York weather? My fiance and I want to eventually do one in all 50 states, which is.

[Matt]

That's fun.

[Joel]

That's a really cool goal. So that's. He's picking up on my favorite distance. I don't know the best one in Georgia, but I'll tell you my favorite one that I've run so far, literally wearing the T shirt from it right now.

[Matt]

Oh, nice.

[Joel]

Helen back. They have a half Anifle. And it's a trail half marathon.

[Matt]

Up in the mountains.

[Joel]

Up in the mountains. And so it's beautiful. It's in April, so it's a great time of year where it's kind of cool, but it's not cold and it's not hot. Don't really probably want to run one in, like, late July or anything like that. So that. That would be my tip. Run that. Yeah, I'll run it with you.

[Matt]

If you come the Thanksgiving Day half, that's cooler temperatures as well in Atlanta, which is. Wait, so it used to be the Publix half. I'm pretty sure now it's Invesco. It's the QQQ half marathon.

[Joel]

So, no, I think the Publix one might be in March.

[Matt]

That's in the spring. Yeah. Yeah. So it used to be the Publix half at Thanksgiving, but then a new buyer came in, so that kind of feels like an appropriate how to money half marathon.

[Joel]

It's the Q, the half marathon acquisition.

[Matt]

Which I don't even know what QQQ is. It's not a.

[Joel]

That's the.

[Matt]

It's not an S&P 500.

[Joel]

No, no, no. That's the technology focus. Is it the next one?

[Matt]

So I think it's tech or nasdaq.

[Joel]

Yeah, I think it literally reflects the nasdaq.

[Matt]

Yeah. Okay. Kat said, what did you want to be when you grew up, Joel? So did I have the tense correct? What did you want to be? Yeah.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

Now, what do you want to be when you grow up? Currently, as if you are still a maturing child. Sometimes I. I say that because sometimes I feel that way where I'm just.

[Joel]

Like, what do I want to be?

[Matt]

What do I want to be when I grow up? I still got plenty of life, my ahead of me.

[Joel]

My favorite childhood job that I aspired to was to become a baseball broadcaster. And that was. I was a big baseball fan, but also just like talking as you might have deduced at this point, if you've been listening for any length of time. And so I was like, oh, man, I get to do both those things. One of my favorite sport. And then this passion for delivering information to people. And I'm so glad, actually, that I did not end up there. I think I really tired of baseball. I just don't really follow sports much anymore. And so I think I'd be, like, bored out of my mind if I was forced to.

[Matt]

But now you follow money. Would you have followed sports if you were a baseball? I mean, the ability to broadcast from. I guess I just think about all the different stadiums. Do the different broadcaster. Did they travel at all, or are you basically stationed, like, at a stadium?

[Joel]

No, they travel.

[Matt]

They travel team.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

See how.

[Joel]

Which sounds cool.

[Matt]

How cool would it be to go, I think, Austin and to, you know, it would announce a game from.

[Joel]

It would be. I like what we do more.

[Matt]

Yeah. Well, mine. I feel like I went through different phases. Right. Because as a little kid, after watching free Willy, who doesn't want to be a marine biologist, So I definitely went through that phase. Well, going into college, I was pre med. That's why, like, a lot of science majors wanted to be a doctor. But I remember multiple times as a kid knowing that I wanted to own my own business. My mom had a bunch of friends who owned different stores and businesses and stuff like that. And I remember always talking to them and them saying, oh, yeah, do you want to own your own business someday? And at that point in time, it was always like a brick and mortar. Like some sort of business that provides a service or sells something. Never thought that I would have a business like this.

[Joel]

Yeah, but if you had a brick and mortar, would it be a coffee shop?

[Matt]

Yeah, kind of like a third place sort of hangs. I think so. I'm trying to think what else? What else would I. I can't think of something else I would want to sell, and that's something, like, on a daily basis. Yeah. Yeah. Coffee shop sounds pretty awesome.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Yeah. Pull the best espresso shots over here. No doubt. Matt's coffee. Gotta work on the name.

[Joel]

All right. Jenny says if you were inclined to create a bucket list, what are five items you would make sure was on the list?

[Matt]

Okay, I. You do this one. Because I basically refuse to answer this one.

[Joel]

Really?

[Matt]

Okay. I'm not. I'm not like a bucket list guy.

[Joel]

I've got a few things I want to do in my life, so.

[Matt]

What are they?

[Joel]

Hot air balloon ride. Really want to ride in a hot air balloon before I die. I want to visit Japan. I want to hike the Camino. Santiago, Preferably with my dad. A full trail marathon.

[Matt]

I'll do it with you, though, if your dad can't make it. Okay. Because I would love to do that.

[Joel]

You can come with us. Three of us. It'll be fun. And I want to become a grandparent, so those are things that I really want to enjoy before I die.

[Matt]

So, again, I don't want to, like, get overly philosophic. I want to affirm your choices. Those all sound awesome by the way. But I just hate the idea of checklists and, like, it just seems like it's something that, like, you want to experience those things. I hate the bucket list methodology, though, because it feels like if you don't do those things that you haven't lived, you haven't achieved what it was, what it is that you want to achieve. It almost makes it feel like a to do list, which is like, there's things I do not necessarily because I enjoy doing those things. Like, typically when you make a list, it's because I'm like, okay, I need to update the insurance information. There's not like, it's not like the process of doing that is something that I enjoy, as opposed to the things I enjoy. They should come more naturally to me, as opposed to.

[Joel]

You have to be more organic writing.

[Matt]

It out, I guess.

[Joel]

So the only thing on your bucket list is to hate on bucket lists.

[Matt]

Yeah. How about that?

[Joel]

That's good.

[Matt]

I'll read the next one. Let's see. Ariana wrote, if you had no responsibilities, Joel, and if you could do exactly what it is that you wanted, what would be your perfect way to spend your day? Do? Okay, so this is a slightly separate question. Do you have any talents if you go back in time, would you pursue those talents, knowing what you know now? So two part question. The perfect day. And are hidden talents a part of that perfect day?

[Joel]

Okay, so I would say perfect day, going for a run, coffee with a friend, little disc golf. I never play disc golf anymore, but that would be involved in a perfect day. Some smoked meats.

[Matt]

See how it changed the mouth? I don't think the disc golf is as important to you anymore.

[Joel]

It's not.

[Matt]

But you've got this place in your mind that you think that that signifies a perfect day. But I am here to say maybe the run has replaced that. Because if it was something that you enjoy doing, again, it wouldn't be on your list. It would just be something that you went and did. Yeah, yeah. That's kind of like the bucket list thinking.

[Joel]

But if I had all day to myself, I'd throw that in. Because through the disc golf, I'm not gonna run for five hours. So if I run.

[Matt]

Unless you're running ultras.

[Joel]

If I run for one hour, then I can still get around to disc golf into. And then maybe hanging out at the pool with my fam, especially this time of year. Like, what's better than that?

[Matt]

See, that's what's so great, is that we've been able to incorporate some of the early retired or like, coast fire lifestyle into some of the days and weeks that we've been able to enjoy recently. And it causes me to want to challenge myself, to think that there are ways I can do these quote unquote, perfect day things on a more ongoing basis. Yeah, it makes me think about you remember, like, Matt's perfect week that I did, like several years ago where I, like.

[Joel]

I mean, it was a Laura Vanderkam special, right?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Well, I said that.

[Matt]

Well, I mean, I think I came up with it on my own.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

And then she reached out because she wanted to hear me talk about it and then she included it in her book. But I wanted to prove to myself that in seven day period of time that I could do a lot of the different things I wanted to do in life. Because at that point in life, I didn't feel like I had the time to. It's like, oh, do I have the ability to go and go for a run, meet up with friends and grab beers, have coffee with this other friend, do all these other responsibilities that I had, but also the fun things? And I think not. Okay. Not to make this overtly lessening and like, what's the big takeaway here? But I think there's a lot of folks who are listening, like us, Joel, who have done the really hard things. They have sacrificed, they have saved and invested for like decades now. And I think a lot of those folks might be closer to living the quote, unquote, perfect day on a more regular basis as opposed to feeling like for us, oh, that we have to even wait up, wait, hold off and wait until summer to be able to have some of these perfect days. And for somebody else, it may not be as extreme as that, where it's just like, I want to be able to wake up, spend some time in the words, do some contemplative prayer, have breakfast with my family, or work out with Kate. That's my thing that I've actually been enjoying a whole lot lately. Have breakfast with the family, engage in some intellectual, mind expanding sort of practice. Like, that's pretty extreme, but I think there's a lot of people who are thinking dudes. For me, even just working out every day would be fantastic. But I think there are ways that a lot of folks can start making some of those aspects of life more of a reality.

[Joel]

Start to buy back some of their time. I think so now, and not just wait until mid to late 60s.

[Matt]

Yeah, I totally agree.

[Joel]

Okay. And if you go back in time, would you pursue a talent that you haven't pursued?

[Matt]

No, I don't think I have it. I don't have any hidden talents.

[Joel]

Same.

[Matt]

Well. Oh, my gosh. Okay. So I haven't playing piano more. Okay. Well, my oldest daughter, she plays, and we're talking about getting a piano in the new space because we've got the space now for a little upright or maybe a studio piano. Turns out they're everywhere. You can get a free piano. Obviously you got to pay to get it moved and get it tuned or whatever. So it's still gonna cost you, I think, a couple hundred dollars. But that's something that I've enjoyed doing. So I'm kind of like, oh, man. And it opens up a different part of your brain, especially, like, music and just the way that the brain works as it's putting together notes and melody and it's good.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Something I've enjoyed this summer.

[Joel]

I love it.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

All right, we've got more of your.

[Matt]

What about you? Oh, hidden talent talents. Sorry, you asked me.

[Joel]

No, I think. I think the only other interest I have, job wise, if I wasn't doing this is like, I'm very highly relational. Like, Walmart greeter doesn't sound like my ideal job, but in some ways it does. Right. So something customer service focused, I don't know what that would be, but I've always said, like, if I'm not in this, something that's highly relational, customer service focused is what I would want to do. So what would that be? I don't know. Is that a hidden talent, even that I like people? I don't know.

[Matt]

The way you approach it, it could certainly be that.

[Joel]

Yeah. All right, let's get to more questions. Your questions, lots of good ones coming up right after.

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

Nice.

[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

Yeah, we talk about our wives and our kids here on the show all the time. Joel, you've got three, I've got four. I, uh, kids. That is. Well, if you are in a similar boat. Life insurance is crucial to take care of your family. If something happens to you, this isn't something that feels especially urgent. It's not a text message or a call from your boss that you've got to get back to. But it is vitally important if your loved ones count on your income in life insurance, it's not a one size fits all product. And policy genius doesn't treat it like one. They lay out all of your options clearly your coverage, amounts, prices, terms. There is no guesswork, just clarity.

[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

That's guardianbikes.com built in the USA, made specifically for kids. Guardianbikes.com.

[Matt]

Alright man, we are back. Jim wrote, we all know the basic way you two met college. Which is funny actually, because we didn't meet in college. But how slash, when did you meet and say to yourself, this guy is pretty neat. I think I'll hang out with him for the rest of my life, start a business with him. What was your thought when you first met each other, Joel? What went through your mind when you first saw me across the room?

[Joel]

Dude's got interesting hair.

[Matt]

And you thought, oh, I have to approach this individual.

[Joel]

Dude's got interesting hair was the first thing I thought. You had the coolest hair.

[Matt]

I have crazy hair back then you still.

[Joel]

Yeah, you did. You had, you loved the hair gel and it was, you were, it was smoking.

[Matt]

It's not. It used to be a bit more rufio from Hook.

[Joel]

That's true. It was.

[Matt]

Without us, without all the red or whatever color he put in there.

[Joel]

I think what stuck out very quickly upon meeting you too. Well, you guys had just like occasionally when you, you were a photographer, you would shoot stuff and then you would.

[Matt]

Occasionally. That's, that's like what I was going to say.

[Joel]

Occasionally you would barter for stuff for your job. So you would barter. You bartered for a beach house one time you bartered for free food at a restaurant. Like gift cards to a restaurant. Oh yeah, you guys invited us to partake at this. We didn't really know you very well and you're like, hey, we've got the gift card, come eat with us. And you paid for our fancy meal. And I was like, man, generous, cool people. We don't know you very well. And you still invited us to do that. So I was like, that's the kind of person I want to hang out with.

[Matt]

Oh, that's right, man. I appreciate that. And I totally forgot about that. Yeah, we had some neighbors, some friends of ours, they owned a restaurant, and they were looking for some new images for the website, and they hooked us up with a pretty fat gift card. And we're just like. We could go here a couple times. Maybe even. I don't know. Yeah, a couple times at least. Or we can invite Joel and Emily and throw down some amazing rib eyes. I specifically remember that you and I both got rib eyes. So just so folks know, we actually met in the neighborhood. We didn't meet in college. We did not know each other in college. Although I feel like we would have been buds based on stories I hear from your college days, for sure. But we met, funny enough, we met playing board games. Like, I don't technically remember meeting you.

[Joel]

Prior to that board game party.

[Matt]

A mutual friend invited us over to their house and we played, I'm guessing something like Puerto Rico or Settlers of Catan, something like that. But that's. That was my first memory. And I just remember thinking, you're more extroverted than I am. You're more social. And I know it's helpful for me to be around folks who pull. Pull me out a little bit more because I know my natural tendency is to stay at home and I enjoy going out. But you like to go out more than I do.

[Joel]

I do.

[Matt]

Which means it pulls me in a healthy direction. So in that way, I think we complimented.

[Joel]

I think that each other, the starting a business thing together. Like, we.

[Matt]

Obviously that came later down there, much later.

[Joel]

But then it became this, like, passion and practical pursuit for us was like, oh, how can we do this thing where we get to, like, work together and enjoy something that we create? And it allowed you to not have to work on the weekends, which you had to do as a wedding photographer. And so it was practical, but it was also passion oriented. You and I both really cared deeply about the topic of personal finance, and we couldn't have predicted that it would have been thousand episodes become what it is. And we would have been doing it as long as we have, but we're thankful for it. And to get to work together, by the way, is a joy. Like, not every day is awesome, but the whole arc of these past seven years. Like, to get to work with your best friend.

[Matt]

7. Coming up on 8.

[Joel]

Dude, I know people. I think a lot of people would recommend, do not start a business with your best friend, because it'll change your friendship. And I think there's actually maybe a Question about this later. So maybe I'll just get it out of the bag right now. Working with your best friend can work as long as you prioritize the friendship above the business. And we have consistently tried to do that. Not that we don't care deeply about the business, but we care more about each other than what happens with Totally and I. That matters a lot.

[Matt]

I completely agree. Not to completely get non sentimental, but I want to do Nicole's question here because she specifically was asking about bucket list vacations, which is something I feel like you hate.

[Joel]

Bucket lists.

[Matt]

Well, when you say bucket list vacation then I can say it like, oh, where's somebody somewhere on vacation that you would love to go? And that feels different to me than like a life bucket list of like before I die, I must do these things.

[Joel]

Okay, what's yours?

[Matt]

It is so in Italy, in northern Italy, the Dolomites, beautiful, amazing mountains. And they have these lodges or these huts that you can get up into the alpine zone. It's beautiful. But then you hike, you'll hike for five hours along this trail. It's like a route or a circuit and then you get to the next lodge or the next hut and then you spend the night there and there's a series of these that you can do. And when I think about specifically, I mean what I love to do the most, especially with Kate, that is what we love to do. And so that again, it's sort of the marrying of food and drink mixed with amazing scenery but with a splash of additional culture.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Thrown in. Which sounds like that's the kind of thing that I, that I certainly want to participate in. What about you?

[Joel]

I think Japan, like going back to the baseball thing. I love how much they love baseball. I would love to see some baseball games in Japan.

[Matt]

That sounds like a fun experience.

[Joel]

Love the coffee culture, the food culture. Like I would, I just would love to experience. I've been to China, it was awesome. I would love to experience Japan one.

[Matt]

Of these days maybe we'll do it, man.

[Joel]

All right. Laura says, what's the best non money advice you ever got? Slash, what's the craziest, weirdest, part time job you've ever had?

[Matt]

Okay, here's another two parter. Do you remember getting advice as a kid?

[Joel]

Not sure.

[Matt]

Maybe I'm assuming that you're asking like advice as a kid.

[Joel]

I was thinking young adult. And I was specifically my mind went to marriage counseling before Emily and I got married. And I remember the person who was doing our marriage counseling said don't Ever use the D word? Divorce?

[Matt]

Okay.

[Joel]

Yeah. And actually that's been incredibly helpful because once you use that word, once you open those floodgates, like, it creates a lot of instability in your relationship. And so never using that and realizing that that was never an option for us, it doesn't mean that we haven't had hard times in our marriage, in our lives, and that there are times where it's like, I don't even know if I like this person right now. I know that's how she feels about me, sometimes less me about her. But that saying that, that's off limits. That was really wise, sage advice for me.

[Matt]

I think that's great advice. Yeah. I immediately thought back to like when I was a kid. I'm just like, I think I was too much of an idiot to actually hear the great wisdom that was being served up to me. You know, like, I'm sure my grandpa, I'm sure my dad, my mom, that they said quite wise things for me to maybe pick up on, but I just was not. I did not have the ears to hear it. And so one thing. So I was like, okay, what is something that actually stands out? The parenting advice, or it's like a. Not a parable, but like a phrase. Prepare the child for the road, don't prepare the road for the child. Is something I always keep coming back to when it comes to anything. Like, you take that and just apply it to all aspects of parenting and I think you're going to be all right.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

What about from a job standpoint though? So the second part of her question, craziest job, weirdest.

[Joel]

Was dressing up as a cell phone after school in high school. Got paid 15 bucks an hour under the table.

[Matt]

That was pretty good. Nice.

[Joel]

But I think my favorite part time job was working the photo booth at Eckerds back in the day. I don't even think they have humans running those things anymore. It's all computers, computers and machines. But I love that because I get to live vicariously through other people's vacations. And then they come to pick up their photos and I'd be like, oh.

[Matt]

How was your trip?

[Joel]

It looked awesome and it was fun.

[Matt]

Yeah, my, like, none of my jobs seem wacky or crazy to me. It's just. That's just my life, I guess. So my mind goes to the first job where I received money from somebody else that wasn't my parents, and that was selling golf balls. And so I would spend the summers as a kid.

[Joel]

You clean them, right? And then sell them.

[Matt]

Yeah. We'd find, like, find them in the woods, scour the woods, the creeks, and they're just nasty. And we'd take them to. Well, this is the best part. We take them to the tee box of the different holes and put them in the ball cleaner.

[Joel]

Oh yeah.

[Matt]

And so we wouldn't even take it home and like use our own soap. We're just like. We could clean it right here, set up on the side of the cart path and sell back to these golfers the balls that they hit into the woods, basically. And something about too lazy to go.

[Joel]

Find and clean up themselves.

[Matt]

Well, because they don't want to. Like, you know, they're wearing their nice golf clothes and we're just like these grimy, poison ivy ridden kids.

[Joel]

That's the service, man.

[Matt]

That was my first taste of entrepreneurship, I think. And to realize that like, oh man, I get to do this exactly how I want. And you don't have to buy the thing from me. I want you to buy it. And I think you would love these perfectly unblemished, nice looking top flights or Titleists that you just hit into the woods. But yeah, that one stands out.

[Joel]

I'm always amazed at the myriad ways people can make money in our society. I saw in van the other day a company, it was like exterior lighting for homes. Like, that's all they did. I was like, that's highly specialized. All you're doing is exterior lighting on like the bushes in the house.

[Matt]

And I've seen billboards of folks who do not just say, it sounds like you're talking about the kind of lighting that you install the lights. And it like is like uplighting on the house or the tree. I've seen billboards around the holidays where they're advertising their services to put up your Christmas lights.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

And then also take them down.

[Joel]

Yep.

[Matt]

Which I guess I kind of get because there's a risk physical. You are in peril sometimes. If you're up on a ladder and don't have that thing set right, you could come falling off, man.

[Joel]

Yeah. Finding and washing golf balls is another one. You can have a list of ways to make money. Ken says since you spend so much time together, I'm wondering, do you ever get on each other's nerves? And if so, what's the secret to working through it quickly?

[Matt]

I do think some of it comes back to sort of what you were saying before. Putting each other first. So here's the thing. Neither you nor I have brothers. Like, we both have sisters.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And I Think there's a certain amount of, like, brotherly love that goes into our relationship. And I think when we are both in healthy spaces and we see each other as, like, as brothers and we love each other, just with that in mind, it helps to, you know, you kind of overlook the different flaws that maybe the other guy has. I mean, I assume you do that for me because I gotta get my own flaws. But I think it's like loving each other, but then also giving each other space. Cause there, I mean, folks might hear us talk at different phases in our life. We did more stuff together. We've also done less stuff together, but I think kind of finding that rhythm of, like, we've got our own interests and our lives don't perfectly overlap each other. Um, and so, like, you've got an interest, you. You'll go do this thing. I'm kind of doing this thing over here. Obviously we come back and we still make the podcast, but we also come back and live life together in different ways too. But not. Not every aspect of our lives is like a concentric circle.

[Joel]

No, but there's a lot overlapping circle overlap, for sure. It's interesting.

[Matt]

There's one question Venn diagram sort of shifts over time.

[Joel]

There was one question I think we should get to real quick because I think it just. It piggybacks on this. Aaron said, do your other friends get jealous with how much time you spend together working on the podcast, the newsletter articles, blah, blah, blah. How long until you get sick of working together in any single session and need a break?

[Matt]

Another friendship style question. I don't think about things that way.

[Joel]

That.

[Matt]

That feels like too limited of frame of reference or point of view to think that there are friends. I mean, I've got other friends out there, but are they thinking about the dynamic of our relationship? I don't think so. If they are, they don't. They don't tell me.

[Joel]

Yeah, so the only time that comes up, I think, is like, because we moved to a new place and people were like, wait, who are these families that wait, they pulled the trigger at the same time and they both moved three years ago. What is it that caused them to do this together? And I think they were like, do I have somebody I would do that with? And so I think a lot of people are like, the depth of that relationship is. I think it is rare in this day and age, right. That people have a friendship that is almost like akin to a familial bond. And so I think from that aspect, I don't think friends get jealous. But I think they have at times been like, tell me what makes that work, or tell me why is the. Why does it look like this? Why do you guys live your life in this way that is kind of tethered at the hip?

[Matt]

I hope it is awe inspiring and not like, oh, that's a weird, freakish cult or whatever. But, like, you're touching on something. A question I don't think we'll get to. But you're specifically talking about the move when we moved out to the burbs. But, like, that was a tough stage in our lives because not only was it tough for you and I, it was a little bit trickier from. Because the wives. I mean, like, you're moving your entire family. So it impacts everybody. Right. Like, there are massive financial consequences here. Social relationships. It was impacting the kids as well. And so that was certainly a period of time that required more discussions. We had a lot of what we call family meetings, where we're sitting down and having the conversations of what this is going to look like for us to uproot and to find somewhere new to live.

[Joel]

Yeah. So I think there's interest, but not jealousy.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. On a related note, I guess, about friendship, Angela, she asked, it was so much easier as kids. How do you make adult friends, Joel? How do you do it? Do you just start talking to somebody, ask them their deepest, darkest fears?

[Joel]

Sometimes I become friends with somebody randomly and quickly, but I think that's probably my bent. But I do agree that it's so much harder. And we lamented this a lot, Emily and I, both, as when we moved up here, because it's like, we're trying to build a new community and find new friends. And for a while, you're like, I'm a little bit lonely. I don't know where my new crowd at. And so, yeah, I remember in college, you're best friends with somebody in, like, two days. And then when you have young kids, I don't know, maybe it's like a few months. And now it feels like it takes years for a friendship to blossom because, like, your lives are just so busy. And it wasn't.

[Matt]

It's the stage of life we're in.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

As well.

[Joel]

Like.

[Matt]

Like, it doesn't at all surprise me that the. With the happiness. You see the happiness over a lifetime chart, and it's pretty much at its lowest point right now. Like, somewhere between, like, 38 and 42 years old is where it's. Seriously, it's literally the nadir. It does not get any lower than it is right now because so much is being asked of us. It is hard to dedicate the time, career, to parenting, to making friends and friendships. Relationships are the highest driver of happiness. So when you don't have the time to be able to do that, it makes sense.

[Joel]

I had a friend text me last night, and he was like, hey, last minute, but do you want to grab a beer? And eight years ago, I would have been like, yeah, man, I'm in. Let's go. And I was like, even highly relational me was like, I mean, not tonight.

[Matt]

Wow, I'm surprised. I was expecting you to have a great. We went out and then this happened. And it would not have happened if I would have said yes.

[Joel]

I've also got a lot more balanced, I think, where I don't need that relational stuff as much as I used to, even though I really enjoy it. So I don't know. I would say this, that through kids events, swim team is one of those, by the way, where you spend a lot of time with other people. Swim team this summer has been an awesome way to get to meet people. Church is another place where I feel like I've gotten to know people and know them deeply. And I think in the. In the burbs mat, at least where we live, like running together, dude. Running clubs, like the triple F thing. I know some guys that do that. I don't partake, but when you have.

[Matt]

Three is what they call it.

[Joel]

Joel, when you run triple F. Sorry, like triple A. Like triple F, whatever it is. But like, I think dudes bond up here by doing feats of strength together, whatever. So running with other guys, that's actually been a good way for me to get some notes to fellows. If you're running slow but long distances, you got a lot of time to talk.

[Matt]

That's true. Okay. Jim asks, as best friends, you have a ton in common, but in what ways do you guys differ the most? What do you think, Joel? How do we differ?

[Joel]

I think people would assume, listening to podcasts, One, people say we sound like their voices sound kind of like. Two, I think they're like, oh, man, these guys like a lot of the same stuff. They like craft beer, they like money. When you hear about the stuff that Matt and Joel, they both go to soccer matches together. They must be the same kind of person. And it's interesting because personality wise, you and I are incredibly different.

[Matt]

It's true. People would cracking open another.

[Joel]

Oh, yeah. Another time. So people would assume, oh, man, these guys are just carbon copies. But it's just. It's not true. So I think personality wise, we're very. I'm. I'm not detail oriented. You are incredibly detail oriented.

[Matt]

I do think that's one of the ways that we are the most different is just we're oftentimes, like, looking to achieve the same goal, but how it is that we kind of get there, we kind of end up in a similar place, but we've found different ways to arrive there. And it's also, I think, why we make a great team and why I think the business runs works so well with us both being a part of it.

[Joel]

And I think you tend to go deeper on interest, which is part of your, like, attention to detail kind of way of living, which I appreciate about you and I love. And like, I feel like I learn a lot from that vicariously. When you dig deep into stuff and I get to hear the way your brain's working about it and I just. I don't know, maybe I. Maybe I lack the ability to go as deep as you do.

[Matt]

You have the ability, but it's just not. I don't think that's just how you are naturally wired.

[Joel]

Yeah. So, yeah, that I think the personality type and it actually, when it comes to running a business and when it comes to what we both bring to this podcast, I think I'm really glad that we're really different.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

And I also think if you were a carbon copy of me, I'd get annoyed really quickly.

[Matt]

I would most certainly be annoyed with myself. Like, and honestly, that's. I tend to get the most annoyed with folks who are the most like me because I then see my own faults in somebody else and I'm just like, oh, that makes me uncomfortable because I see you doing something that I know I myself do. I was going to say that I feel that over the years that we've become. Even though folks, they know that we have similar interests, you just shared how we kind of have. That we're. That we are very different. I feel that we have actually sort of become more similar.

[Joel]

Oh, really? Over the years, I would say the opposite.

[Matt]

There's a part of me that feels that way because early on I feel like I don't know when it comes to job. Like, you were working in radio. I owned my own photography company. Like, I was like, you've been running a lot more now, which I love. But, like, back in the day, you're just like smoking cigarettes and playing tennis.

[Joel]

That's true.

[Matt]

I would enjoy my mom. I'd enjoy a smoke with you, you know, like at a concert or something like that. But whereas now we're both like, now I'm just trying to get you to do some strength as opposed to just. Just the cardio.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But generally speaking, I feel like we have, in a strange way, kind of found each other again.

[Joel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt]

Does that sound too serendipitous?

[Joel]

Friendships over a long term are really interesting things and they change and they morph and they mean something different to you at different times in your life. And I think especially over this past year, I've had some more difficult things in my life, personally, I think of which I've mentioned here on the podcast a couple different times. But I think you're getting to experience your support, love and care. Like during hardship has meant a lot. So. Yeah, I don't know, are we more alike? Are we more different? I don't know. But friendships, they ebb and flow. But this is like one of the most consistent things in my life and to have you as a friend, so.

[Matt]

Well, thank you for that, man. Appreciate you. I want to read this.

[Joel]

Don't cry, Matt.

[Matt]

As we hash out our feelings here on the podcast. Katie wrote, I believe it's Joel who enjoys collecting local folk art. How did you find the art in artists when starting to collect? How did you get into it in the first place? I'm a scientist slash engineer by trade and way outside the art world. I'm interested to support some local artists, but I don't know where to look or what is quote unquote good. Joel, what are your folk art tips?

[Joel]

Katie, I'm no artist at all. Like, I don't even know that. I have a brain that works for art. I know what I like. And so you got good taste though it was local artists, typically they would paint murals and then I would start to kind of follow them on Instagram and then I would kind of get to know them and try to buy a piece or two that they were selling. And there were just a few people I started following and then I would find other people that kind of overlapped with their style. But yeah, even gotten to become friends with a few of the artists that I really like. And they're awesome people and I just appreciate that too. The other thing, there's this once a year folk art festival that I go to and I find out about new artists that way. It's honestly, it's like my Christmas art festivals. Christmas morning's awesome. The folk art festival for me is it one ups Christmas morning. Sorry if that Sounds sacrilegious or something like that, but it's my favorite day of the year. And so, yeah, try to find a festival in your area if you can. You'll find it. You'll be exposed to a bunch of new folks. You'll actually get to meet them. You'll get to look at the art in person. You'll get to walk. I budget so much money for that day, Matt. I walk away with my arms full in my pockets emptied, and it's like a big smile on my face.

[Matt]

I'm hoping that we. The past two years you've gone and we've already had things on the calendar and have not been able to make it. I'm. I need to put it on the calendars. That way we don't book something for that Saturday in order to be able to. Cause I want to score some stuff too. It's an affordable way to decorate your house. That's true too, as well. In addition to the festivals, I think even just going to a local gallery, if it's a good local gallery and they've got great local artists there, it's a good way to in real life meet somebody who knows these folks and you kind of get that relational element as well. Jolt. Megan wrote, if you could instantly become an expert in something obscure, what would it be and why? Bonus points for not choosing a money related expertise.

[Joel]

Oh, it would definitely not be money related. I love personal finance, but I would totally want to do something completely obscure or different. Well, okay, for years. Would it be to be some sort of like exercise health expert, like Andrew Huberman? That was my guess.

[Matt]

Oh, no, I'm interested in it. But you know what? I just noticed that she wrote, if you could instantly become an expert. And I'm gonna push back against that a little bit too, because the process of learning about something, that's where all the magic happens, right? Like that. Like that formational process is so important.

[Joel]

No, I. Unearned knowledge. You're not looking for that.

[Matt]

So I enjoy, I guess, the physical exercise, longevity space. I would want to do something like create like I think about the Eames. What's the plywood. Or I think it's called the plywood chair. But like, I think about beautiful furniture and I would love to be able to do something like that.

[Joel]

I would love woodworking, but highly.

[Matt]

But very high end. And like the marrying of form and function, basically. Like something beautiful that's aesthetically incredibly pleasing, but that serves a very clear purpose as well. Like, what is a better way to be able to enjoy something than, like using it. Right. Like the tools that we use. I don't know. I just think about that. That seems really appealing to me.

[Joel]

That's interesting.

[Matt]

What about you?

[Joel]

Mine would be, and I'm sure you would not have guessed this gardening, because.

[Matt]

I'm not really green thumb Joel over.

[Joel]

Here like my normal life. You're not going to find me in the garden. You're not going to find me planting stuff. Like, I'm just come over to our.

[Matt]

House and pull some weeds around the plum tree and the peach tree.

[Joel]

That's my. I mean, I think that's my, like, that's my personality. Bent is I'm not slowing down to plant a garden.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

But I wish I would and I wish I knew more about it. And I do think that I'm losing something in my lack of like my connection to human instincts.

[Matt]

Your literal connection to the earth, like your hands down in the dirt.

[Joel]

I think that'd be really good for me. And so if I could become like a gardening expert. And then. Because part of it too is in that trial and error, there's a lot of pain and a lot of frustration. If I started planting stuff and the deer ate it and it like, that's.

[Matt]

Where we are, man.

[Joel]

Yeah. Like weeds overtaking everything. I mean, then I.

[Matt]

Stupid deer.

[Joel]

I'd be frustrated and I want to quit. And so if I was instantly an expert at gardening and I could like do it flawlessly, that'd be kind of cool.

[Matt]

Yeah. Funny enough, that's actually something that Kate and I have been getting into. She is always. I mean, she's an incredible gardener. But it's something that I have also learned to love and appreciate. Let's see. Joel, Leslie wrote, what are your predictions for your children's futures? That's a not loaded question at all. For instance, careers, size of families. Are they also going to be best friends their whole lives? I'll say that I hope that our kids maintain this incredibly deep bond where they've known each other basically their entire lives. Or we've got pictures of them as like 3 day olds next to each other, which is, I mean, not three days. Well, actually, no. Yeah. Literally, our boys are three days apart.

[Joel]

That's right. I think our.

[Matt]

I would love for that to be the case.

[Joel]

Our oldest girls will retain it more than any of the rest of them. And I hope they all will.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

But I think they have such a deep relationship at this point. It's fun to watch. Like, it's one of my favorite relationships to watch. Blossom and grow. Yeah, super cool. You start though. Your kids. Well, family size careers. What are they gonna do?

[Matt]

That's for them to decide. I've got zero. Like, I am trying to hold that.

[Joel]

So if you're making a prediction, if their inclination, like the kind of person they are, what would they. Because I have, like, thoughts I don't think have things I want them to do. Like, I even think my uncle tries to convince my oldest daughter to become president, United States. And then I'm like, no, you probably don't want to do that. It's not a great gig.

[Matt]

I mean, they've got their different strengths and weaknesses. Or not. I mean, just the things that they're less interested in. But like, you've got one who's great at following the rules and being super orderly. One who just wants to sit there and read all day long. Another one who's incredibly physical and social, you know, like you. Like, I truly try not to. I would love to have a big family. I never grew up around a whole lot of people. Like, when it came to the size of our families. And that was. I never thought I'd have more than a couple kids. But then Kate and I got married and she just had one brother as well, and we both were like, you know what? I think we're gonna have a lot of kids. I like the idea of sort of like what you were saying earlier, being a grandparent. That's totally something. I have hopes and ambitions. Like, I don't want to say ambition because it's like, how do you. How are you ambitious about becoming a grandparent? It's certainly a hope. And yeah, hopefully that's something I'll get to see someday.

[Joel]

I don't know that I have career predictions, except for from my oldest. And it's mostly because she said this already. She's 11, but she's like, I want to be like a doula. She loves babies. Yeah, she wants to.

[Matt]

Oh, she does.

[Joel]

She's so good with her grandma was a neonatal nurse and so I think there's this sort of attachment there to like childbirth and she's just obsessed with babies. So. Yeah. Do I think she'll have a lot of kids? I do. And I think my son will probably also have a lot of kids too. He just sensitive boy and he likes. He likes. He likes babies too. So my middle child, I don't know.

[Matt]

Like, she's the wild card.

[Joel]

Like, what she gonna end up doing? It's probably gonna be something epic. She might be like, probably something you.

[Matt]

Were not at all expecting.

[Joel]

I can be like a Red Bull athlete or something like that, like diving from space or something. It's gonna be neat. It's gonna be fun to watch. It's, it's highly unpredictable. But yeah, I hope, I hope, like you a lot of grandkids.

[Matt]

Yeah. All right, we're going to keep moving. And you know what, we're going to take a quick break, but then after that, maybe we'll speed it up and we'll just kind of do like a rapid fire. We'll give some shorter answers. We'll get to all that right after this.

[Joel]

I still remember the birth of my first child. You never forget that day. But aside from the joy, it made me think long and hard about a slew of things, life insurance included. Matt. I'd never felt the need before, but I knew at that point in time it became a necessity for our family. And policygenius, of course, makes finding and buying life insurance simple. Ensuring that your loved ones have a financial safety net they can use to cover debts and routine expenses. With Policygenius, you can find life insurance policies starting at just $276 a year for $1 million in coverage. It's an easy way to protect the people you love and feel good about the future.

[Matt]

Yeah, we talk about our wives and our kids here on the show all the time. Joel, you've got three, I've got four. Uh, kids. That is. Well, if you are in a similar boat. Life insurance is crucial to take care of your family. If something happens to you, this isn't something that feels especially urgent. It's not a text message or a call from your boss that you've got to get back to. But it is vitally important if your loved ones count on your income in life insurance, it's not a one size fits all product. And policy genius doesn't treat it like one. They lay out all of your options clearly your coverage, amounts, prices, terms. There is no guesswork, just clarity.

[Joel]

Secure your family's future with Policygenius. Head to Policygenius.com to compare free life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com looking for a smarter way to teach your child to ride a bike and support American jobs at the same time. Most kids bikes are just cheap imports. They're heavy, clunky, hard for kids to control. Guardian Bikes is changing that. They're assembling bikes right here in the USA with plans for full US Manufacturing in the next few months. It's a commitment to higher quality and American craftsmanship you can trust. Each bike is lightweight, low to the ground and built to help kids learn to ride faster, many in just one day. No training wheels needed.

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

All right, Matt, we're back. Let's hit up some more listener questions.

[Matt]

Land this plane.

[Joel]

Yeah. And then we'll talk briefly about sabbatical plans. Alright. So Kat says, what beer types did you have to learn to appreciate?

[Matt]

Oh, almost all of them really. I think. No, like the darker beers, the kind of darker maltiers, I would say. IPAs for sure. I remember the first IPA I had. I remember my buddy Dan, he was just like, oh, IPAs are an acquired taste. I remember that then and I certainly get that.

[Joel]

But yeah, I think fruited beers for me. I remember the first beer I had was like a blueberry beer. And I was like, this is terrible. And this must be what, only like Sweetwater Blue. Was that your first girls with their pinky out drink or something like that? And I think, yeah, Sweetwater Blue. I think that was it. And then it turns out fruited beers are my all time favorite style of beers.

[Matt]

So fruited beers or fruited sours?

[Joel]

Fruited sours. Okay. But I just assumed anything with fruit in it was not for me.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Joel]

And then I had to realize, wait, there's some highly crafted beers with fruit in them.

[Matt]

And realizing that there's a different. The first time I ever had, what is it? New Belgium's La Folie, which is a brown sour. I remember thinking, wow, only one other time in my life have I had a beer where I said, oh, I'm not sure if I like this. And then eventually this became an entire category of beer that I enjoyed. Similarly, when it came to sours in that way where the first time I had it, I'm like, this isn't right. This does not taste like they. That they brewed it properly. But then you get to know the nuances and the funk and all the other flavors going on there. That, yeah, it's. It's certainly a style that I love now.

[Joel]

All right, Adrian says, what Guinness World Record do you think each of you could break?

[Matt]

I've got no idea. You know, I'm going to say it takes too much of an extreme dedication to one single thing, and I hate that extreme nature of the Guinness Book of World Record. I'm just looking to be like a very awesome, normal dude. I mean, seriously, like, that's my. It's like one of my goals in life is to not pursue something to the extreme.

[Joel]

I felt the need to come up with an answer. Okay, so I said, most time spent talking without taking a breath. So I can just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and just keep talking. And my mom used to tell me growing up that I could just talk to a wall. And I think that might still be accurate, but I don't know. They're not interesting. They don't really talk back. So.

[Matt]

All right, here's one that leans towards your strengths from Aaron. If you played each other one on one in basketball, what would be each of your go to moves, and what would you guess the final score would be? Joel, I'm going to completely hand the game over to you.

[Joel]

Get.

[Matt]

Not because of your height, but that helps. It's. I don't. It doesn't hurt. But there's some shorter great basketball players out there. Not like short as in like under 6 foot, I don't think.

[Joel]

Well, Spud Webb, back in the day, he was. Yeah, like, man, he could really get like ten or springy legs. Yeah.

[Matt]

See, that gives me hope because I'm like a little over five.

[Joel]

I do the cream of cream Abdul Jabbar sky hook. And that would be my go to move. And I think I would win 10 to 7 because you're. You're pretty scrappy. 10 to 7, you're quicker than me.

[Matt]

Wait, what's the layoffs? What's the regulation one on one basketball game? Normally basketball games are like in the 70s or 80s or 90s.

[Joel]

You're not playing that long.

[Matt]

Oh, okay.

[Joel]

No, when you're playing one on one, it's like to 10 or something like that. All right. Jeffrey says I actually do want to know what Matt's hair routine is. I just started growing my hair longer, and I gotta know, am I a genius, by the way, to wear the same shirt and joggers all week if it stays clean? Both of these are questions for you, my friend.

[Matt]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so the. Okay, the secret to letting your hair grow long is. Are the. The soccer hair bands. Like, it's like the skinny band that you put in your hair. Cause you need to be able to pull it back when you're. When you're being a bit more active to where the hair is not getting, like, falling in your eyes. And then in addition to that, in the winter, rock the beanie. Like, you put the hair back in there. That way you're able to keep it out of your face. That's how you grow it long before you were able to grow up a ponytail.

[Joel]

Okay. But with shorter hair. What do you. Hair glue.

[Matt]

Man hair glue. That yellow tube shorts cough or something like. Okay, Extreme hold.

[Joel]

Named after a former US Military general. Right.

[Matt]

I don't know. Okay. No, I think it's like a German.

[Joel]

That was like a. That was a military. American military general.

[Matt]

I haven't dove in. I haven't entered my World War II era.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

So, okay, I got into the meats.

[Joel]

This is. This is also you question. It's one of the. Wearing the same stuff all week. If it stays clean, that's something you do.

[Matt]

No, if it touches your skin, you gotta. You gotta change it out every day.

[Joel]

You wear the same shirt sometimes a few days in a row, right?

[Matt]

No, I just have the same. Not T shirt. Wear the same exterior shirt.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

If it touches your Skin, socks, underwear, undershirts. Those only last a day. But over conversations I have with my kids on a semi regular basis because.

[Joel]

They haven't learned doing too much laundry.

[Matt]

They haven't learned the rules yet.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

If it's touching your skin, if it's touching the pits or the booty, you gotta, man, throw that thing in the hamper. But overshirts, especially in the winter. You can, you can rock that all week long, man. I literally do that all week long.

[Joel]

All right, Cindy says, what is each of your favorite non financial podcasts?

[Matt]

Oh, so you know Huberman's at the. One of the. That's at the top.

[Joel]

I figured that was gonna be the.

[Matt]

Physical fitness side of things. What about you?

[Joel]

I like. I'm very interested in politics, although highly annoyed by politics as well. Especially, I mean, who's not right at the like the last decade. Right. But I would say Ezra Klein from the New York Times and Reason. The Reason Roundtable.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Because I'm getting like two different sides of the same, same coin. I love hearing different takes and I think both of them have a lot of like wisdom and intelligence.

[Matt]

I'm surprised you didn't say the Fifth Column boys.

[Joel]

I like those guys too. They're great.

[Matt]

That's more. I mean, that's politics, but it's also a little culture.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Rough around the edges. On the opposite side of the spectrum when it comes. What about Honestly with Bari Weiss?

[Joel]

I'll listen to that. Some man.

[Matt]

I love. I think they do. She does such a great job in just the free press, generally speaking. I'm such a huge fan that on the spiritual side of things, for the past several months I've been listening to Mocking cast.

[Joel]

Don't know it.

[Matt]

You never heard the mocking cast?

[Joel]

No.

[Matt]

Oh, gosh. I don't know them well enough to be able to share their name. Like R.J. scott. So there's three. There are three believers. And they just sit down and they talk about faith, how it's intersecting with like daily life, but they talk about how hard it is to be a Christian and oh, dude, you would totally love it. I can't believe we haven't talked about it. Yeah, it's something I've.

[Joel]

I'm mostly listening to audio books, by the way, these days. So I listen to some podcasts and I like some. But if I'm listening to.

[Matt]

Which I haven't been doing lately is listening to an audiobook. But what do you listen to? Oh, wait, so you're reading Lord. Lord of the Rings right now?

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So Are you going to go straight through, by the way? Two towers.

[Joel]

I'll probably break it up. Probably break it up. But part of it's just because when is it going to become available next?

[Matt]

And I haven't true. Plan it out perfectly, listen to something else. But then you. I want you to kind of power through it, though, because just to be able to tie it all together. So good.

[Joel]

It's good stuff.

[Matt]

I'm looking forward to being able to read that with the kids, which I still feel that we're a little ways from.

[Joel]

All right, this is a quick one. Jana says, diagonal or straight cuts for your grilled cheese. Feel like there's only one answer when tomato soup is involved.

[Matt]

Diagonal all the way. I mean, it just looks slam dunk. Question. We're not communists.

[Joel]

Yeah, right. Who cuts it straight down the middle? All right, Anonymous reached out and said, if you. If you asked ChatGPT to roast you, what would it say? And this is something you can go do for yourself. So I don't want to read all these, but I did go into ChatGPT and said, hey, will you roast Matt and Joel from out of Money?

[Matt]

What was your. You wrote a couple down. What are your.

[Joel]

Some of your favorites here? I love. Speaking of hair, it says, Joel's hair looks like he's been saving on haircuts since 2009. And Matt, the guy could probably build a DIY bunk bed with nothing but a promo code and a craft beer bottle. I mean, it's just like. And he says, speaking of which, I haven't heard two people mention craft beer so much outside of a Portland tattoo parlor. So chatgpt knows us. And then also you could. It says like at the bottom. It's like, do you want to make it spicier? And so I did, and it just gets more off the rails. But it's. It's funny. I just. It's. I never use ChatGPT until. I mean, I've used it like five times. So going in there. This question prompted me to check out what's going on with AI, even though I mostly avoid it.

[Matt]

AIs. It'll be interesting to see how things play out, man.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Eric wrote, what is your biggest non. Financial regret, Joel? Do you have regrets, dude? Or are you like me? No regrets.

[Joel]

That's. Yeah, I think everyone has something that if they could go back because. And largely because maybe it's led to hurting somebody that they love. Right? It's like, oh, I wish I would have been more thoughtful about that. That's. That's typically that would be, like, a regret that I would say.

[Matt]

But can't you take, like, the judo move and, like, use the momentum of that bad decision to make? Like, aren't you a better person because of what, like, your past and maybe mistakes or missteps? Because I think about that often.

[Joel]

I think so.

[Matt]

I think so.

[Joel]

But there were probably ways I could have learned more quickly and not let you know. Been such an idiot for so long. But that's a really hard question to answer.

[Matt]

Here's a faster learning.

[Joel]

Yeah, exactly. Which I think I do learn faster now than I did over, like, the last 15 years. But, yeah, I don't know. So I guess I will leave it at that. There are probably things I wish I would have. There are certainly things I wish I would have learned more quickly and in particular, how they led to hurt feelings or they led to disrepair or dysregulation in relationships. And I've learned a lot in the past few years. And I think the biggest thing I've learned, Matt, is to take more responsibility for my actions and to approach the people I love with more humility. And that allows me to learn a lot more quickly than I used to.

[Matt]

Very nice. Appreciate you sharing that. Dude. Do you. Should we round out with a couple more here or should we just jump to the end?

[Joel]

Let's do. Let's do. Last one. Okay. Samantha says, do you consider yourself happy? Do you consider yourself lucky?

[Matt]

I would say yes to both. What about you?

[Joel]

For sure, both. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt]

Certainly lucky. Happiness feels like a very shallow kind of, like, do you have joy? I don't know that that kind of.

[Joel]

I agree.

[Matt]

That whets my appetite for some, like, the bigger kind of conversations that I like to get into. Happiness that's dependent on the weather.

[Joel]

Fleeting.

[Matt]

Yeah. What kind of leftovers I'm bringing into the office that I get to enjoy as opposed to, like, more of the deep seated, solid to the core kind of foundational aspects of joy that I'm more interested in.

[Joel]

And it's interesting. I think contrary to the modern conception of happiness, deep joy is often found through self sacrifice and service. Yes. And the deep love and care for other people more than you care for yourself. And I think that's something that in many ways we've maybe lost as a culture. Not wholly, but in many ways we have where it is more looking out for number one. And if you want. Yes. If you want to encounter more of that joy, then I think it is going to involve a certain amount of letting down, putting aside what you care about the most in favor of watching other people and helping other people in your life succeed. And yeah, I think that's where I've found a lot of joy.

[Matt]

Yeah, no, I totally agree.

[Joel]

In recent years.

[Matt]

I totally agree. And isn't that so much a part of parenting? And that's one of the things that scares me the most about the trend that we see our culture going in when there's fewer folks who are at all interested in having kids or having fewer kids. Because what are you oftentimes instead looking at? You're looking at yourself and like the things that you think are going to make you happy and some of the different goals that you have as an individual as opposed to finding ways to help children in particular to be able.

[Joel]

To do that, by the way, without having kids. And a lot of people out there.

[Matt]

100%, 100% I can't have kids. Right. I'm not at all being like the single cat lady. Like that's not the line that I'm, that I'm at all spouting. But it is I think an outcome of folks who maybe aren't self examining. If you've done the work and you're just like, you know what? Like, kids aren't for me, that's totally valid. Like, please hear me saying that. But I think it's for the folks who are just like, well, I don't want to do that. That sounds hard. Or then I'm not going to be able to do this. And this sounds, sounds like fun. The ability to see somebody grow up and for them to realize their full potential and the self sacrifice that goes into that and then ultimately the joy that comes out of seeing someone like your kids develop into who they're meant to be. That sounds incredible.

[Joel]

Think of that Ryan Holiday quote where the obstacle is the way. And it's like, man, the greatest growth that's happened in my life have been through the times of greatest self sacrifice and greatest suffering. And so happiness, like day to day happiness is not improved because of the suffering significance that I've experienced. But my overall depth of joy and gladness in being human and who God has made me to be has grown significantly because of that.

[Matt]

I love it, man. And before we let folks know what to expect for the rest of the summer, we cracked open another beer, which was a Taurus the Tyrant, which is a triple oatmeal Russian Imperial stout.

[Joel]

Two good beers on today's show.

[Matt]

Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna celebrate the thousandth episode, you're gonna have a little bit of both. This is a tiny little can, 8.45 ounces. It's like the size of a. What is it? Is this the size of like the original Red Bull can?

[Joel]

Half a Red Bull.

[Matt]

It's like so small and petite and tiny, but man punched a whole lot of flavor. It was punching above its weight class. Yeah, I'll say that for sure.

[Joel]

Okay, let me ask you a question then. So, as listeners know from listening to the episode this past Friday, we're going to take a little bit of time off.

[Matt]

That's right.

[Joel]

We're going to come back with a vengeance in early August and can't wait to come back. But we're going to enjoy the crap out of like a significant extended break here.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Joel]

What are you most excited about for this time for you and for your family?

[Matt]

I think for me, one of the things, from a logistics standpoint, I remember talking, I think it was either, it was either Jillian, maybe it was Katie north, but they just talked about being able to do things with that time that you otherwise would not be able to because you're taking a longer period of time off. And so for us, we've never taken a longer road trip. And so I know folks have been listening to the Airbnb ads and talking about this east coast road trip. Like, we are for real actually doing this thing.

[Joel]

You didn't just make it up for the advertising.

[Matt]

And we've gotten more and more into the planning aspect of it, and it just gets me more and more excited about all the things that we're going to be able to experience together as a family, what we're going to be able to learn, like the exploration and taking kids to these new places. And I'm really excited about that. But so that's just kind of like a. But that's more like vacation, right? Like, that's the thing. Like, we're calling this kind of a sabbatical, but according to the definition of everyone we've talked to, sabbatical is like, oftentimes it's close. It's like three to six plus months sometimes.

[Joel]

Well, I don't know. I mean, I think six weeks, eight weeks is considered sabbatical for a lot of people. And that's sometimes what most people.

[Matt]

But the real question is folks are wondering, well, when are you recording this episode that you're currently speaking on? That's what folks don't exactly.

[Joel]

Oh, not too far in advance. Not too far in advance.

[Matt]

What about you, though? What? Yeah. What are you looking. Looking Forward to most, honestly. Yeah.

[Joel]

Kind of going back. You're excited about your trip and I'm excited about some travel. But I think the thing I'm most excited about is kind of the slowing down. I was. I was like, literally having this conversation with someone earlier this morning just how mundane life can be and leaning into experiencing the joy in the mundane. That's what I was.

[Matt]

Garbage time, dude. Yeah, man. Like, that's the. It's. It's the thing that when you are in a hurry, you wish you didn't have it, but when you wish away all the things, all the prickliness, like, all the sharper edges of life, there's nothing left to grab onto.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

You know, and so, like, we need some of that. I think we need more of that in our lives than we think we do.

[Joel]

And oftentimes more margin, more chill.

[Matt]

More margin, more chill, more space. Yeah.

[Joel]

Yeah. So I'm going to lean into.

[Matt]

I love that.

[Joel]

Just some time alone and. Which, again, does not come naturally to me, but I am trying to, like, cultivate that in my life to.

[Matt]

I think it's important.

[Joel]

Enjoy and be comfortable with that. So, yeah, I'm going to have long chats with friends I haven't had long chats with. I have a lot of things on my to do list that don't look super sexy or spectacular.

[Matt]

That's what it's all about, dude.

[Joel]

Yeah, it's all about. That's what I'm pumped about. So.

[Matt]

All right.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

This has officially been the longest episode I'm sure that we have ever recorded. And I don't even know, should we even finish out with a beer review? Let's just let folks know we say they were great. They were fantastic. So good. You don't necessarily need to hear us talk on and on about it, but just to know that this was a part of our conversation today, that we were both sitting here as two dudes who are sitting here who love each other, who are also enjoying some, you know, delicious, delicious beverages like we have.

[Joel]

And truly, we love you, too. We have so much gratitude for you, even though for most of you, we don't know you. Although we've gotten to know some listeners. Yeah. Even got on runs with some listeners. But if we also, if we took your question on today's show, reach out to us. Howtomoneypodmail.com, we'll send you a pair of how to money socks.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Thank you for participating. They are the greatest socks in the.

[Matt]

History of the world.

[Joel]

In the history of socks and we're going to enjoy the heck out of this break and then we can't wait to come back.

[Matt]

And we'll have some besties, though. Heads up. So, like, we'll have the content for you. Maybe we will record some intros on.

[Joel]

A couple especially, by the way, if you're a newer, ish listener. It's not like we pull these things out of the dungeon. There's still like lots of good, relevant money advice in those episodes. So if you're like, whether you just miss the sound of our voices or if you're new and you're like, I.

[Matt]

Haven'T heard that before, pretty sure that's not the case. That miss the sound of our voices, Joel.

[Joel]

But enjoy those while we're gone. And we can't wait to come back in early August. We'll see you then. Well, all right.

[Matt]

So buddy, until next time.

[Joel]

Best friends out.

[Matt]

Best friends out. Did it occur to you that he charmed you in any way? Yes, it did. But he was a charming man. It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story because this ties together the cold war with the new one. I often ask myself now, did I know the true Jan at all? Listen to Hot agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. OpenAI is a financial abomination, a thing that should not be an aberration, a symbol of rot at the heart of Silicon Valley. And I'm going to tell you why on my show Better Offline, the rudest show in the tech industry where we're breaking down why OpenAI, along with other AI companies are dead set on lying to your boss that they can take your job. I'm also going to be talking with the greatest minds in the industry about all the other ways the rich and power while ruining the computer. Listen to Better offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you happen to get your podcasts, are there any pictures of you online?

[Unknown]

Then you could already be in a massive police database without even knowing it.

[Matt]

Clearview scrapes together images from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts.

[Joel]

I'm Dexter Thomas, host of Kill Switch, a podcast about how living in the future is affecting us right now.

[Matt]

Police, they are to trying trusting the software with this magical ability to lead them to the right suspect.

[Unknown]

In this episode we dive into how cops are using AI and facial recognition and sometimes getting it wrong and putting innocent people behind bars.

[Matt]

So if your accuser is this algorithm, but you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works.

[Unknown]

Listen to Kill Switch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Matt]

This is an I heart podcast.