Ask HTM - Budgeting for Credit Card Rewards, HELOC for Home Improvements, & Coast FI with Bonds #1138

Summary

How to Money – Episode #1138: Ask HTM - Budgeting for Credit Card Rewards, HELOC for Home Improvements, & Coast FI with Bonds

Date: May 11, 2026
Hosts: Joel & Matt (iHeartPodcasts)

Overview

In this episode, Joel and Matt tackle listener questions about nuanced personal finance topics including investing strategies for Coast FI, the practicalities of tracking credit card rewards, trusts vs. wills for estate planning, the use of a HELOC for home improvements, and affordable prescription sunglasses. As always, they offer accessible, actionable advice with good humor and relatable stories from their own lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Listener Questions

1. Coast FI & When to Introduce Bonds (Caller: Jacob)

Timestamps: 07:45–22:38

• Jacob's Context:
  At age 35, Jacob is close to his “Coast FI” number—enough invested so that future growth alone should fund retirement, even if he stops contributing. To make calculations simpler, he ignored Social Security and future minimal 401k contributions. Now, he’s considering shifting his investment strategy, including whether to add bonds to his portfolio.

• Key Discussion & Insights:

  • Defining Coast FI: Coast FI is about reaching a point where you don't need to invest more for retirement, but you do still work for income. Retirement is still down the line, but the nest egg is essentially set.
  • Why Not Bonds Yet?
    • “Target date funds for 35-year-olds currently have about 8–10% of holdings in bonds, but those funds are often too conservative too early.” (Matt, 15:17)
    • Both hosts favor a heavy stock allocation for Jacob due to his long timeline.
    • Only accelerate bond accumulation if he intends to retire much earlier than “normal” (i.e., sequence of returns risk).
  • Gradual Approach:
    • Start directing new 401k contributions to bonds (e.g., a total bond fund like Vanguard’s BND) instead of shifting existing assets right away.
    • “Doing it with new investment dollars will make the process feel just more gradual, a bit more steady, which I think makes more sense from a psychological perspective and also a financial perspective as well.” (Matt, 17:54)
  • Setting Milestones:
    • Assign rough stock/bond allocations by age: e.g., 90/10 at 40, 80/20 at 50, 70/30 at 60.
  • Psychology and Opportunity:
    • Bonds can act as “dry powder” for rebalancing opportunistically if the market drops.
    • Avoid sudden changes; “He doesn't need to jerk the wheel.” (Matt, 21:25)
  • Notable Quotes:
    • “You ate the frog first… Because you’ve saved more than the average person, you’ve given yourself options.” (Joel, 14:39)
    • “It's less about how old you are right now and it's more about when you think you'll be accessing those funds.” (Joel, 16:40)

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2. Tracking Credit Card Rewards in Your Budget (Caller: Suzanne)

Timestamps: 25:05–38:09

• Suzanne's Context:
  She and her family earn thousands each year from credit card rewards, store points, and loyalty programs. She wonders if she should track these windfalls in her budget, or enjoy them as bonuses.

• Key Discussion & Insights:

  • Playing the Game Wisely:
    • “Love that she’s not paying interest… because that’s the trap half of Americans fall into.” (Matt, 26:19)
    • Only spend on things you’d buy anyway; don’t manufacture spending for rewards.
  • Do You Have to Track Everything?
    • Tracking can be helpful if you want to measure which cards/programs you actually benefit from.
    • Some cards/platforms make tracking easy (e.g., Fidelity, Costco show dollar totals in your account).
  • Integrating Rewards Into Your Budget:
    • Options:
      • Use rewards to reduce budget categories (e.g., travel).
      • Treat them purely as windfalls and don’t include in planning (“I don't think it matters, really.” – Joel, 37:39)
      • Only use rewards to offset overages or unexpected expenses (“…I’ll redeem a card or even multiple cards to offset some of the additional spending…” – Matt, 35:59)
  • Flexibility vs. Rigid Tracking:
    • Matt prefers a flexible approach, using rewards as needed to balance budget categories.
    • Joel is more casual and simply uses extra rewards to “spend a little extra going out” or otherwise enjoy windfalls.
  • Notable Quotes:
    • “2% cash back on a $100 purchase you didn’t need to make is still 98 wasted dollars.” (Joel, 27:21)
    • “Different strokes for different folks, kind of thing… just know what works best for you.” (Joel, 36:53)

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3. Trusts vs. Wills for Young Families (Caller: Kat)

Timestamps: 38:15–46:51

• Kat's Context:
  Recently married with a new baby, Kat and her husband have a notarized will and power of attorney. Her husband wants a trust; she’s skeptical, thinking trusts are only for the wealthy and hard to undo.

• Key Discussion & Insights:

  • When do you need a trust?
    • Wills are essential for anyone with dependents; trusts are mainly for those with substantial assets, specific wishes around inheritance, or especially complex family situations.
    • Trusts require more effort and cost to set up and maintain—“You might also have to take additional annoying steps, like retitling your house.” (Joel, 41:33)
  • Who should seriously consider a trust?
    • People with blended families, asset-heavy estates, or special instructions around inheritance timing.
    • “If there isn’t the actual virtue of trust [in the family], this is where you purchase the trust…” (Matt, 45:04)
  • Don’t overlook simple steps:
    • Update account beneficiaries; these override your will!
    • “That’s always been the craziest thing to me… it’s just such a big deal.” (Joel, 41:02)
  • Final Advice:
    • For most young families with modest means, a well-crafted will, updated beneficiaries, and term life insurance are the main pillars.
  • Notable Quotes:
    • “If you do those three things, you've avoided almost all of the biggest potential pitfalls.” (Joel, 44:44)

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4. Affordable Prescription Sunglasses (Facebook Q: Jennifer)

Timestamps: 48:58–53:48

• Question: Lost prescription sunglasses—any affordable replacements?
• Top Recommendations:
  • Zenni Optical: “The answer… is such an easy one. Zenni Optical, baby.” (Matt, 49:19)
  • Others: Firmoo and iBuyDirect for variety and flexible return policies.
• Pricing & Experience:
  • Matt: “I got the special coatings… the prescription sunglass version is like double… $60, but you can do it for less.” (51:17)
  • Joel: “Got four pairs of glasses for $90. Some clip-on sunglasses included.”
• Pro Tip:
  • Consider buying multiple pairs so loss isn’t painful; opt for basic coatings to save.

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5. HELOCs for Home Improvements (Anonymous Poster)

Timestamps: 53:48–57:35

• Question: What makes a good HELOC? Anything to look out for? Any reason to avoid?
• Key Discussion & Insights:
  • Don’t assume tax benefits—“You only get that tax benefit if you itemize… the vast majority of tax filers don’t.” (Matt, 54:25)
  • Best Use Cases: Repairs that can’t wait (e.g., new roof); ideally avoid for discretionary upgrades.
  • Essential Tips:
    • Solid plan to pay off HELOC within 2–3 years.
    • Avoid teaser rates that spike suddenly.
    • Credit unions typically offer the best rates and fewer strings.
  • Cautions:
    • “Homes aren’t piggy banks. There are real risks to snagging some of those equity dollars…” (Joel, 55:04)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “It’s always a good Monday when you and I get to sit down and enjoy a craft beer while answering personal finance questions.” (Matt, 01:50)
• “You ate the frog first… you’ve given yourself options.” (Joel, 14:39)
• “If you are… manufacturing spending by using credit cards poorly… I don’t think it matters, really. Have fun with it.” (Joel, 37:39)
• “That’s always been the craziest thing to me… update your beneficiaries!” (Joel, 41:02)
• “Homes aren’t piggy banks.” (Joel, 55:04)
• Beer of the Week: “Dream Operator” Citra IPA from Piedmont Brewery—“It tastes much sweeter from the can, almost like a juice concentrate…” (Joel, 58:15)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Coast FI & Bonds – 07:45-22:38
• Credit Card Rewards & Budgeting – 25:05-38:09
• Trusts vs. Wills – 38:15-46:51
• Prescription Sunglasses – 48:58-53:48
• HELOCs for Home Improvements – 53:48-57:35

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Wrap-Up

Joel and Matt deliver a well-paced mix of hard financial knowledge and easy-going banter. No matter your money question—whether saving for retirement, squeezing value from spending, preventing inheritance headaches, or avoiding financial pitfalls with home equity—the hosts aim to keep personal finance practical, human, and even a bit fun.

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Transcript

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[Matt]

Is it just me or is it getting really hard to figure out the best way to save for retirement? Well, Fidelity can help you to find clarity so you can save the best way for you. With a free personalized plan, goal tracking and timely insights, you'll be set to take on retirement your way.

[Joel]

Get [e-mail] future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account apply Fidelity Brokerage Services Member NYSE SIPC welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I'm Matt.

[Joel]

Today we're answering your listener questions.

[Matt]

Buddy, it's always a good Monday when you and I get to sit down and enjoy a craft beer while answering personal finance questions.

[Joel]

A case of the Mondays is a good thing for us.

[Matt]

It is. Makes me think of one of our favorite local breweries who used to have it's Monday night brewery and they used to literally have a case of the Mondays. A case of their beers. 24 beers. Variety pack. Yeah, but no, we are getting into nitty gritty budget questions. That's one from a listener. She's trying to specifically determine how to account for her credit card rewards. Another listener is thinking about tapping his heloc and Joel, you would say, yeah, go for it. Treat yourself.

[Joel]

Take all of it right now. No, but I mean there are certainly some circumstances where it makes sense and there are others where you gotta.

[Matt]

You gotta be careful.

[Joel]

Receive with caution.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Joel]

That's exactly what I was gonna say.

[Matt]

Yeah, it's like we're, we've mind melded

[Joel]

over the years, it's frightening.

[Matt]

And we'll get to a Coast 5 or fire question, which, by the way, is the best approach towards retirement. Actually, it depends if he's thinking more Coast Phi or Coast Fire. So we'll actually. Yeah, maybe we'll parse the differences, the details when we get to that question. Real quick though, I wanted to share how Joel, on a long. Like this is. I don't know how many years ago we talked about. I guess it was maybe an overall credit boosting sort of episode, or maybe it was actually even like, how do I get my kids a head start?

[Joel]

I don't know.

[Matt]

I can't remember the context. But I do remember talking about adding your kids as authorized users on your credit card. It's something we've discussed and specifically I remember doing a little bit of research and digging around and seeing that Capital One in particular lets you add kids of any age. There's no age limit. So at the time I think I added like, like a three year old, a five year old, a seven year old and a nine year old, probably as authorized users. It was also hilarious the day that I remember those two envelopes showed up with two cards in it each. And it's got like, you know, my three year old name on it. But, you know, I took those, clipped them together, stuck them up in my, up in my desk drawer and didn't really think we'd do much with it until recently.

[Joel]

You want to tell people why you

[Matt]

add your kid as an authorized user and they benefit from your good spending habits. Not only spending on the card, but of course, paying on time and in full.

[Joel]

So then they're building up a credit score way early on in life.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Joel]

And so then they got a really

[Matt]

long credit history, not to mention. So these cards were on hand and I never thought I would actually use them because our oldest, we've got. She's got her own account and spending her own money. But our second oldest, who is 11, recently went to a volley, like a professional volleyball game. Shout out to Coach Smith and Ms. Walters for heading that up. But they kindly let us know that, oh, this is a cashless place, stadium or arena or whatever. I was like, oh man. Well, she wants to get a snack, let's send her with a card that's got her name on it. So she didn't even know the card existed, of course. Oh, wow. I bet she thought it was super cool. She was like, wow, how's my name on here? And of course it's Capital One. And they all know the slogan or the motto. They think it's the coolest credit card. And they just always say it.

[Joel]

They're like, that's what's in my wallet, yo.

[Matt]

Anyway, it was just. I just jumped up the opportunity for her, who hasn't done a whole lot of spending, just to let out the leash a little bit for her to have a little free reign, to make some decisions on her own, because there is an opportunity for her to get a snack. And that's exactly what she did. She got a lemonade. She got nachos with cheese.

[Joel]

And she was like, you guys have any caviar?

[Matt]

And shared it with her friends. And I was like, you don't lose the card. This is how you tap. You seen. She's like, okay, yeah, I've seen it. I've seen you do it. I was like, don't lose it. And so she went and did that, came home, explained how she used it, and then came to slightly more complicated of explaining to her, okay, now you spent your money, but it wasn't your money. It was Capital One's money. They were loaning you that money. So now we have to pay Capital One back. So go get 12 bucks, because that's how much you spent anyway. I pulled it up and showed her, and I think she understood it. But still, it was just a great opportunity because normally you would think, well, why would you give a kid a credit card? And in this case, there wasn't an opportunity to use cash. I prefer cash because of the tangible. Oh, you're taking this from me, right? Because for her, the lesson didn't sink in until I had to follow through. When we're at home and we sat down and had the conversation, as opposed to in the moment, forking over the actual bills and seeing a 20 get broken down, you know, and them only giving you 8 bucks back sort of thing.

[Joel]

Yeah, we're seeing that less and less. I mean, we're seeing more.

[Matt]

More places are cashless, dude.

[Joel]

Yeah, Cashless, our local cheese. I saw somebody walk in the other day, wanted to buy. Buy themselves a nice lunch, and they

[Matt]

got denied, turned away. Cashless.

[Joel]

Yeah, cashless. And so I. We're going to see more and more of that. And in some ways, that's really sad. Like, we remember that our interview with Jay Zagorski, who's talking about the power of cash. And I think there's some truth to that. But then in other ways is the

[Matt]

original Jay Z is.

[Joel]

And then another way is like, it's. It's kind of sad because it's the end of an era. But in other ways I get it right because small business owners like cash can be annoying and then you got to go to the bank, you got to make deposits and stuff like that liability involved despite the added friction of paying a couple percentage points less how you send MasterCard.

[Matt]

You know, they have to have the gloves on hand to be able to then go get your food and then take the gloves off when they're handing handling the cash.

[Joel]

I guess, you know, despite profession does

[Matt]

streamline it Jay Z's desire for cash

[Joel]

to be the main way we transact. I just don't think, I don't think you can put that cat back.

[Matt]

Do you think it's a losing battle? Yeah, I do. I agree. Hey, I'll mention the beer that you and I are going to enjoy today, which is called Dream Operator. This is a Citra IPA from Piedmont Brewery. Looking forward to enjoying this and we will share our thoughts at the end of the episode.

[Joel]

By the way, if you have a money question we'd love to hear from you. Just go to how to money.com ask or literally just record whatever questions in your mind right now on the voice memo app of your phone. Email it over to us. How to MoneyPod@gmail.

[Matt]

You know it, Matt.

[Joel]

Let's get to the first question of this episode. This one is specifically about becoming a little more conservative in your investing.

[Jacob (Caller)]

Hi Matt and Joel. This is Jacob calling from sunny Los Angeles, California. Longtime listener, first time caller. Really appreciate the time and effort you all put into the show. It's been a major help with my personal finances over the years. I have a Coastify and bond related question for you that may just boil down to when should I start investing in bonds? But here's the context. The market's going to do what the market's going to do, but it looks like I'll hit my COSFI number around age 35. In calculating my COSIFY number, I omitted two factors for simplicity. Social Security and the fact that I'll continue to minimally invest into my 401k for the company match while I'm still working. I omitted these two factors to create a sort of risk buffer and now consider those additional funds to be a kind of cherry on top. Assuming my calculations hold for the next 30 years, my current company contributes 5%. If I contribute at least 4%, I'm going to shift the excess funds that I have been contributing to my 401k into saving for a mortgage down payment. The Socal real estate market is really something special. Up to this point, my portfolio consists entirely of equities in the form of domestic and international market index funds. So my question is this. If I hit my CoastFi number at age 35 and currently only hold equities, should I consider investing in bonds through my 401k contributions? Target date funds for 35 year olds currently have about 8 to 10% of their holdings in bonds. If I choose to invest in bonds using my aggregated annual 9% 401 contribution, it will take quite a bit of time for bonds to make up 8 to 10% of my overall portfolio. Since I've invested in equities so heavily for the past 15 years, it would also provide an easy way to introduce bonds into my portfolio without any asset rebalancing. And it seems like a decent way to mitigate some risk given that I consider these funds to largely be a cherry on top of. But I'm wondering if you guys would suggest waiting even longer to invest in bonds, given my age. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks so much.

[Matt]

All right, Joe, I'll kick it off. Share your thoughts with Jay Wright.

[Joel]

All right, I will. Well, Coast Phi is one of those. I think we're just hearing that term more and more. I think it is kind of an attractive way.

[Matt]

Yeah, I'm sorry, I kicked it off earlier by saying, did he say Coast Fi or Coast Fire? Did he?

[Joel]

I think people use those interchangeably because typically when you're using that, you don't

[Matt]

think he's being so quite as literal. Right. Because fire financial independence, retire early. Folks who like to focus on the financial independence aspect of it are saying it's just about the money. It's less about dictating what my lifestyle is going to be, which is retiring early.

[Joel]

That's the whole point of Coast Fire.

[Matt]

It's the main take, sort of nerdy thing. I will let that slide.

[Joel]

Yeah, I think it is. Because I think the whole point of reaching Coast Fi is that you continue to work. You just don't have to invest anymore. Right. So it by definition is a little different than just traditional fire trying to amass enough so you can stop working and that your investments ride it out. It's just that you can stop investing, but you still need to make an income. Right. And so the fact that Jacob's going to hit this, even with the risk buffers he's built in, that's amazing. By the way, as we've discussed, you're still going to have Social Security income down the road, Jacob, I think that's really important to mention even if it's somewhat diminished, right. From the projections that you see when you log into the Social Security site. Because I don't know, maybe you get fewer working years in or because of reduced benefits. Because our politicians just cannot figure out how to salvage the Social Security system in its current form. Still, it's going to be around.

[Matt]

Or that is how they solve the problem.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Matt]

The shortfall and.

[Joel]

Exactly.

[Matt]

By cutting actual benefits.

[Joel]

But you don't want to cut your benefits and your projections down to zero because while that might sound wise, it's also overly conservative and not mathematically optimal for you. It really could mean that you're investing too many dollars now that you could have spent that you could have enjoyed. And most folks who are investing as avidly as you are, they're not going to avoid investing altogether for decades, especially if they're given free money to do so. My guess. Yeah. Is you're still not gonna. If you get a free 401k match at your work, you know, 3% if you contribute 6 or something like that.

[Matt]

Well, he said what, 5 gets him that? Or by investing 4, it gets him that extra 5.

[Joel]

Yeah. Who's gonna say no to that? Even if you've already hit. Topped off your tank.

[Matt]

So technically speaking, yeah, Jacob, he might achieve coast phi at age 35. Actually, two things.

[Joel]

He might be fat phi down the line.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. Well, two things I'll say, keep in mind, Jacob, that as you get older, I don't know, something I feel like once when I was younger and I did a lot of calculations, I'm like, oh yeah, we're going to be able to achieve it at this dollar amount or at this point in time. And man, I hate to say this, but life changes and whether that's a family or other desires or other goals, other beautiful, wonderful things that you like to incorporate into your life that sometimes do cost money, that might be something that you see tick up a little

[Joel]

bit as you're like actually projections.

[Matt]

It's going to take me a little bit more to. To reach coastfi, so I want to. Yeah, I just thought of that. But also. Oh yeah. Personally, I'm also, you know, we've talked about hitting coast fire ourselves, Joel and I haven't invested on a personal basis since 2023. I was recently looking at some stuff, so I didn't.

[Joel]

We still invested business owners 0 personal

[Matt]

investing in 24, 0 and 25. And I'm not planning to do any again this Year. But yes, in a similar way, where it's just like. Well, but you know, on the business side of things, we're still contributing via our solo 401k, which, by the way,

[Joel]

we're kind of like, tethered together on that.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Yeah. So if you stop, then I have to stop. The way it's structured, and then I punch you. That's not good.

[Matt]

Because we're co owners. Do you get notifications? I do. When the cash. When the. When the check clears with Fidelity.

[Joel]

Okay. Yeah. They send me a little email.

[Matt]

Good. And then you go in there and then make your purchase.

[Joel]

Yeah, I figured.

[Matt]

Yeah. But I realized I don't think that's something we've ever talked about. It's always best to air our administrative tasks here on the podcast.

[Suzanne (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I think for everybody to know what's going on. Okay, good.

[Joel]

No, but I mean, I think you're right. I mean, and that's not to say you'll never invest again, Matt, but for right now, different goals over the past couple of years, and this is the time of life, I think most people find when they have a bunch of kids hanging around. Right. That it's one of the most expensive times in life. And my guess is that 15 years down the road, both you and I will be spending less money than we spend now. I don't know. I don't know exactly what the future holds. Maybe I'll get into. What does it hold? Some weird, expensive hobbies or something like that. But for the time being, I'm like, I think this is.

[Matt]

Joel's a Formula one driver now. Exactly.

[Joel]

But I'm sponsored, so it's okay.

[Matt]

Costs a lot of money, though, up front.

[Joel]

Yeah, you're right. I don't think I have the resources for that.

[Matt]

That is true. You have to be lightning fast. Okay, what's something else that's really expensive? Like a yacht owner.

[Joel]

That's not.

[Matt]

Yeah. Joel in 15 years.

[Joel]

Joel's changing a lot.

[Matt]

Joel's getting into yachting.

[Joel]

I'd have to change a lot as a person for that to be the case. But, yeah, I mean, not significantly. Investing moving forward is going to allow Jacob to save up a down payment a whole lot faster.

[Matt]

Right.

[Joel]

Even though he lives in SoCal, and that's a tough task. Mark Twain, though. I think if you were to ask Mark Twain, the. One of my favorite American writers, he would say that you ate the frog first. Right. That you invested. You did all that investing for so many years and so got it over with. Because of that, you've because you've saved more than the average person, you've given yourself options. And so I think while this question that he's asking is an important one, it's also less impactful than many of the questions that he's already had to navigate. Right. I do think it's going to be wise to take some chips off the table at some point, like reducing stock exposure, increasing bond holdings, but you also don't want to be too trigger happy in doing so either. I don't think that's right.

[Matt]

Yeah, I do appreciate that Jacob's looking at other comparables essentially. Right. Like he's looking at target date funds. The main criticism though, in comparing what you've got going on to a target date fund is that they are too conservative too early on for young investors. I think he said that something for someone his age would be 8 to 10% invested in bonds. And so basically the fact that it's going to take you a long time to grow your bond exposure, I actually see that as a good thing. I think, I think this is an advantage because again, I think that you are not planning on taking the full fire routes.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

With the re where you're looking to retire early, this means that you are still planning to continue to work and it means drawing down on your portfolio at the traditional age, essentially. So if you are keen though to retire early on, let's say at age 50, where your withdrawals will begin a bit sooner, which then would expose you to sequence of returns risk, well, that would support increasing your bond exposure maybe a bit early. So it's less about, I guess the quote unquote, retirement a. I mean the traditional retirement age as opposed to your specific timeline.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Like when it is that you are looking to, to draw down on those funds, that's what you need to marry this bond exposure to your specific timeline. And when you're going to need access to those funds.

[Joel]

Right. It's less about how old you are right now and it's more about when you think you'll be accessing those funds.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Joel]

Yeah, you're right. If he's like, hey, no, no, I'm going to, I'm going to work. I'm just not investing anymore, but I'm going to work for the next 25 years. Then trying to make big changes in your investing strategy now makes very little sense. But yeah, if you're talking about retiring much earlier than that sooner makes a lot more sense. And so, yeah, I think it sounds like he's planning to let those investments Ride and grow for many decades. From a purely mathematical and historical perspective, given that long timeline you still have ahead, Jacob, I would say staying heavily invested in stocks makes sense for the time being. I would still, I would want to continue having the portfolio constructed the way you have it. If I was in your shoes, there's just no real need to pivot quickly. We do just. Well, you suggested like you sounds like you've thought through this incredibly well already. I would start making new contributions in your 401k into something like a total bond fund, maybe Vanguard's B and D. But this is, this is the way to slowly but surely move things in that direction. And yeah, it's just, hey, new investments go into this. That's how I'm planning on rebalancing over a long period of time.

[Matt]

Yeah, it's just a small change in the right direction because alternatively, you could take a more active approach to rebalancing where you are selling smaller amounts of your stock holdings, buying bonds instead. But I think doing it with new investment dollars will make the process feel just more gradual, a bit more steady, which I think makes more sense from like a psychological perspective and also a financial perspective as well. And so aside from that, I think having a goal of what percentage of your portfolio that you want to be in stocks and bonds, given age, is wise. Right. And so let's say, hey, by the time I hit age 40, I want to have 90% stocks, 10% bonds allocation. Maybe by age 50, I want it to be 80, 20, maybe by age 60, maybe at that point I'll be 70, 30, and yeah, attempt to get there through new investment dollars alone. I think this is a good approach if you want to do maybe a little rebalancing on the side, depending on how the market's doing. A recent argument, Joel, I wanted to share too, is the fact that I've heard folks talk about their bond exposure within their portfolio acting as dry powder. So essentially the ability for you to take advantage of the market being on sale. Right. So you've got bond exposure, which typically goes up when the stock market crashes. Right. Imagine five years from now, typically, typically, not always. It's not guaranteed. But imagine he's been putting money towards BND for five years and then there's a massive market correction. Right. So he sees his stock holdings go down. He sees as bond holdings increase in price. You sell a little bit and then take advantage of prices being on sale,

[Joel]

sell a little bit of your bnd,

[Matt]

sell a little bit of the B

[Joel]

and D, put it back into bti,

[Matt]

get you some of that back. Get you some of that stock exposure. He doesn't, probably doesn't need to touch this for another 15 to 20 years. And then you take a decade plus to be able to rebalance and to build that back up. That starts to be a slippery slope though, because you're talking a little bit about like timing the market and making a decision, which normally we wouldn't. But that's like if you are willing to, if you're the pilot on the 747 and you're like, you know what? I'm going to take this sucker off autopilot.

[Joel]

You're the Sully Sullenberg of investing.

[Matt]

If you like messing with stuff, if the landed in the Hudson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you like tweaking, if you like fine adjustments, which I tend to be that type of person. And so I could see myself getting into it less from a mitigating volatility and the diversification aspect and more as a forced method of allowing me to earn something on my money in the meantime. Hopefully it's not too much of a drag, the bonds, but then to be able to switch things up a little bit when there's an opportunity. I like opportunities like that, so that appeals to me.

[Joel]

I like what you highlighted too, about having different goals of percentage allocation at different ages, because then that can be kind of your North Star.

[Matt]

I think I can just keep them on track. Right.

[Joel]

Instead of being more emotionally inclined or reactionary, you're saying, no, this is, this is kind of the general vicinity I'm trying to hit. If I'm in that ballpark, I'll leave things be. If I'm not, I will make some small buy and sell decisions to try to help get me there. And so, yeah, but then you are kind of doing the slow but sure and minor correction route instead of making big changes. And I think especially at Jacob's age, at age 35, with his goals, with where he's headed, like there's just no need to make bigger changes to make substantive changes to his portfolio.

[Matt]

He doesn't need to jerk the wheel.

[Joel]

No. But I think it's worth kind of breaking out that telescope to kind of look off into the distance and see, well, where am I headed and where do I want to be and start kind of planning ahead for that and just making smaller tweaks. It's kind of like when we talk about this, speaking of Social Security, we just mentioned it earlier in answer to this question. It's kind of like how if we had made a change like 15 years ago or even 10 years ago, we're talking about less drastic changes being necessary to right the ship as far as our whole Social Security infrastructure and ensuring that it is around and solvent for decades, if not centuries to come.

[Matt]

Basically, you've had a long Runway to see the results of a slight change. 15 years, 20 years.

[Joel]

So long. And the longer we wait, just the more severe the correction is going to have to be and it's going to impact people even more significantly. And so I think that's why it's

[Matt]

like you're saying that Jacob is wise and prudent and he is basically in Jacob. Jacob. You are currently in future Jacob's past right now. You've never thought about it that way, but you are, you are ahead of the curve.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

And by making these changes now, you're being wise and prudent. Exactly.

[Joel]

And I would vote for you because you are thoughtful about the future and I wish we had more people in elected office doing the same. All right, Matt, we got more to get to on this episode. We're going to talk about credit card rewards and budgeting. We're going to talk trusts versus a will. We're going to talk. We're going to get to that and more right after this.

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

road this summer and we're going to travel slow. We're going to take the scenic route. I'm a big fan of that slow stateside travel with my family. It just reminds me that we're building something worth protecting and life insurance is a part of that planning ahead process. So here's my suggestion. Get life insurance checked off your to do list in minutes with policygenius so you can make those memories while knowing your family is protected.

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

we are back from the break. We're also going to talk about prescription sunglasses. Joel, we'll get to that here in a minute. But first let's take that question about tracking rewards in a budget.

[Suzanne (Caller)]

Hi, Matt. Hi Joel. It's Suzanne from Austin. I'd love to hear your thoughts on tracking incentive rewards in personal budgets. Between cash back credit cards and sign up bonuses, we earn several thousand dollars every year. We also earn a few hundred dollars in points from different drugstores and grocery stores that we apply toward future shopping trips. Then there's the occasional free flight or hotel room earned from loyalty programs. Generally, I view these kickbacks as windfalls earned through organic spending. My question is, should I? The combined monetary influx seems significant from a budgetary standpoint, but I don't really relish the idea of tracking yet another thing in my budget or in my life. So what do you think? Track or don't track? Thanks a bunch.

[Matt]

Ooh, Susanna's playing that credit cards game. Joel. I love it, man.

[Joel]

I like it.

[Matt]

I can't walk it back. I guess I said I love it. I can't say I like it after I say I love it. It's one of the other. Which one? Yeah, which one is it?

[Joel]

I think, I think, I think extreme like is good. I don't know. I'm in love with it. But the idea that you can.

[Matt]

I love that she's doing it properly.

[Joel]

Yes.

[Matt]

I love that she is not paying interest. Right. Because that's the, that's unfortunately the trap that half of Americans find themselves.

[Joel]

Well and I think a lot of middle, upper middle class people who play this game correctly. Which is why, you know, we're the, the old school, you know, advice to avoid credit cards altogether to people who Use them properly who follow the golden rules of plastic as we call them. Like it's just antiquated. It doesn't make sense. And I guess you could talk about the behavioral aspect.

[Matt]

It literally doesn't make you any sense.

[Joel]

It doesn't make you any money. And so yeah like I just playing the game. We live in a society with like systematized game like financial rules. And if you could follow them and use them to your advantage, you can make as Suzanne said, thousands of extra dollars a year.

[Matt]

Which ain't no joke man.

[Joel]

That's no joke.

[Matt]

You know what that means is that Suzanne is spending a lot of money. So obviously don't let the tail wag the dog here. Some people but like if you are right, if you are just are spending a lot of money, you may as well run those purchases through a medium that's going to give you some bonuses, some perks.

[Joel]

And the argument against, because I could see this being true is that some people might spend more money because they get infatuated with reward the rewards they can earn. A key part of the process is to only spend on things you would have bought other way and not spend in order to manufacture rewards. Because guess what? 2% cash back on $100 purchase that you didn't need to make is still 98 wasted dollars. So you definitely have to keep that in mind as well.

[Matt]

That totally computes. Do you have any? This is something that we used to talk about more often. I personally haven't played the rewards in particular from a new signup standpoint until recently actually. I'll go ahead and share this. I talked about Capital One earlier. Capital One has a business card and normally again I don't do this at all. Over the past couple years I haven't done it very much at all. But I knew because of my coffee bar and that I'm spending so much money I'm going to be spending a singular purchase in particular.

[Joel]

I won't even call you to the

[Matt]

carpet and ask expensive Italian espresso machine was a lot of money. And so the spend amount on this, it was the business spark cash card or cash credit card, something like that. But it was a thousand dollar bonus.

[Joel]

Those business cards.

[Matt]

Thousand bucks man, is a lot of sign up bonuses. You did have to spend $10,000. And I will say I did not spend all that money just on one singular purchase on that machine. But there's other purchases involved. You know, I mean you to go

[Joel]

to Home Depot and buy cash. Oh my gosh. Yeah, you've been Doing a lot of

[Matt]

all the additional DIY work. Yeah. So I was able to kind of keep it nice and clean and everything that went on that was specific to this particular project. But that was one, hey, if you're a small business owner and you're thinking about opening a new card, that is totally one worth looking up. If you are interested in jumping through some of the hoops and making sure that you pay this thing off again, don't manufacture spending.

[Joel]

So let's talk about tracking and I'm curious to hear where you come down on this. I mean, I think it's, I think it's important and helpful first off to track the rewards that you're earning even if you don't use them like in your budget, as Suzanne is alluding to. I think it's important to know how much value you're getting from each credit card or rewards program that you're using because it will help you know how productive that card or rewards program is. Like.

[Matt]

Yeah, that's true.

[Joel]

For example, shopping at Costco. I shop at Costco more and Aldi less. One, I live further away from an Aldi now and two, I just love Costco. And so because of that, I found that the Amex Blue Cash Preferred card wasn't very helpful to me anymore. I was using the Costco City card quite a bit more and using the Amex Blue Cash Preferred a lot less, Even though it's headline 6% back at grocery stores. Did you drop it? So I dropped it.

[Matt]

Oh, look at you.

[Joel]

So it's a no brainer to me that I just, I'm not going to overcome the $95 annual fee to the extent where it makes sense to keep that card on my person anymore. And so it's, it's just nice to see how your method of payment is rewarding you. Whether that's in the form of airline miles or cash back, Costco credit, whatever it is, it's just good information to have. So I would say tracking at least is helpful in this equation.

[Matt]

Yeah, I guess the tracking part of it sounds like a big lift. And that's the tracking part or the

[Joel]

putting in your budget part?

[Matt]

The, the. Well, both, I guess. And I think that's what Susan Suzanne is trying to figure out. It's like, is it worth the lift for me to know. And I think you can quickly figure out sort of like what you're doing because you don't necessarily have to budget and track your spending in order to figure out whether or not I don't

[Joel]

have to Track it to the penny.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. So there's like some.

[Joel]

But then again some do it for you. Right. Like in the back end of my Fidelity account.

[Matt]

That is true.

[Joel]

I know exactly how much money I've earned using my Fidelity card this year. Same thing with my Costco card. So sometimes it's. They make it easy for you.

[Matt]

Exactly. So I. Regardless if it is a card that you are paying for, that's like a bare bones necessity that you need to do is to make sure that you are receiving enough benefit to make it worthwhile. But many folks out there choose to, as you have done, Suzanne, think about those benefits as just the icing on top. It's nice and thick icing though, right. It's a nice bonus. They may not be factoring them into their budget. And that also makes sense too because some of those rewards are just, they're non monetary. Right. Like I'm thinking about how I typically receive my bonuses and cash back. And it's literally cash back. But for a lot of folks you're looking at receiving your bonuses or. And whatnot via points. Right. Which then go to free hotel stays. It goes towards flights and those in fact will save you money, but they don't. They're not literally putting money into your account or offsetting your credit card statement like it does for me. In addition to that, you can't bank on them in a, in a recurring way like you can with your typical expenses. So this, I don't know, the semi volatile nature of the bonuses that you're earning makes thinking of them, I think as, yeah, just as something that is what she call it like a windfall and kind of sporadic when it is that they might come in. I think that that is, I think that can be a reasonable approach as well.

[Joel]

Some years you might earn $2,000, some years you might earn $3,500 based on your spending, based on a significant bonus from one card. Right. Can change, change the game in a given year depending on kind of how you're going about this and what your spending looks like here. Yeah, I think another great way to think about this is maybe to allow those rewards, those points to reduce your spending budget in certain areas. So yes, for instance, like you can reduce your annual travel budget because you're, you're keen on earning travel rewards. If that's something that like you dig, you like playing that game. Well, every free flight, every hotel you rack up allows you to spend less on the next trip you're taking because you're just, man, you're getting the points because of regular spending you're already doing. So instead of then budgeting $10,000 a year, let's say for trips across the country in the world, budget $7,000 instead. That frees up $3,000 to do other awesome stuff with. Right. And it allows you to use the skill that you've garnered, which is kind of playing the credit card game to, to get free stuff to reduce your need to fork over cold hard cash essentially for the trips you're taking, for the spending that you're going to do. And then that three grand, hey you, guess what, you can invest more if you want or you can save it towards a down payment on the next home or towards beefing up your emergency fund. And then if in a given year, let's say you don't earn as many credit card rewards, if like, hey, guess what, we didn't get a sweet sign up bonus in the same way this year. It forces you to cut back in a way that you might not be pumped about, but it maybe makes you get a little creative with it. Like, I don't know, I'm just, that's, I think one way to at least think about incorporating these rewards into your budget if you're interested.

[Matt]

So the only problem with that though is that I would be afraid that oh, we're not getting, getting as many rewards then does that incentivize you potentially spend again? So I guess my only pushback with you saying to kind of that you would then be able to budget less in a certain category is the fact that you are still then counting on those rewards showing up. Right. And so said I don't like the dependency, which is why I'm going to share why it is or how it is that I account for our cashback dollars, which is I do use it to offset different categories of spending, but I don't count on it.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

And so what that means though is if I'm looking at a certain category of spending, let's use groceries. And I'm thinking, oh yeah, I spent, oh yeah, there's an entire side of prime ribeye. This is something that actually happened.

[Joel]

Yeah, I believe it.

[Matt]

And I'm gonna get it because it was 90 bucks off, 80 bucks, $80 off per package. And I'm still spending 200 bucks. Well, that's a significant over on, you

[Joel]

know, within the category that would smash your traditional grocery.

[Matt]

It would destroy it. And so I don't actively go. And I'm not trying to redeem my rewards from all the different credit Cards as soon as possible. Like I just kind of, I don't think about them all that much. I let them build up and then in a particular month when I know that we're going over, I try to keep everything nice and tidy by looking at the categories that need it. And I'll redeem a card or even multiple cards to offset some of the additional spending where maybe we've been a little looser when it comes to our spending. Or in that case, like I was taking advantage of an opportunity. Right. Like butchered. Slice those rib eyes up myself, stuck them in the freezer, ate a number of them.

[Joel]

But then that gives you the free freedom to splurge instead of.

[Matt]

It's not so rigid. Yeah, yeah, it's not so rigid because I want to be able to take advantage of an opportunity if there's a sale or something like that and not feel so locked into the budget.

[Joel]

Hard cap. Yeah. Then you feel like unwilling or uncomfortable

[Matt]

and that seems silly. Right.

[Joel]

You're like eating into next month's budget, you know.

[Matt]

Yeah, the accounting gets all messy and wonky if I were to do that. But yeah, like harder to do I

[Joel]

guess with maybe travel rewards.

[Matt]

Easier to do with cash back again. Yes. And this, this is 100% within the thinking of the actual cash back showing up as dollars. Also I'm thinking of certain it's not just like a category of spending, but sometimes if there is a random one time expense that we incur that does not fit into any sort of category at all and I'm like, we're never going to like, I don't need to account for, like I'm accounting for it. It's showing up and it goes under whatever it is. Dash miscellaneous. Yeah. And so sometimes if there's a big miscellaneous expense like that, I will then apply the credit card rewards to the miscellaneous category because I'm not going to review that at the end of the year and say, oh, I need to create a new line item for that and make a new, whole new category for this thing or oh, I need to increase the category because actually it's going to go into this now this is like a one time thing. So we're just going to essentially erase it by crediting it for that specific month. That's, that's honestly what we do most of the time.

[Joel]

And I think what kind of this boils down to is it's a different strokes for different folks kind of thing and just know what works best for you. I think if you are, if you are more Like Matt, and you're more detail oriented, then you might want to come up with a systematized way of moving forward. If you're more like me and you're like, flying by the seat of your

[Matt]

pants, you a little more shooting from

[Joel]

the hip, you might not care quite as much about making it systematic. And you might just be, like, thankful that you, you know, got a free hotel stay and you're just gonna spend a little extra going out to eat on that trip.

[Matt]

You're gonna enjoy it.

[Joel]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Matt]

Well, I wanted to say.

[Joel]

And as long as you're taking care of the basics like investing and saving, then, like, I, I don't. And you're not like, manufacturing spending by using credit cards poorly.

[Matt]

It.

[Joel]

I don't think it matters, really.

[Matt]

Have fun with it. Make sure you're getting the most bang out of the buck for the cars that cost you money. I was gonna say, practically speaking, what this actually looks like, and I kind of inferred it, I realized just now, but it literally looks like a credit to that particular card, just like a return would. So, like, you know, there's like, oh, target return. It's a negative. Whatever. That's exactly what these statements look like. I'm sorry. This is exactly what the cash back looks like on the statement. It shows up as a statement credit.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And it offsets whatever category that is. Stick it in.

[Joel]

Nice. Yeah, makes sense. All right, let's get to a question, Matt. This one is about estate planning.

[Kat (Caller)]

Hello, my name is Kat and I'm from Waterford, Michigan. When my husband and I got married, we notarized a last will and testament as well as a durable power attorney. Now that we have a two month old, he thinks we need a trust. But I thought trusts were for extremely rich people and that once you put things into a trust, you can't really remove them. Quite easy. What's the difference between a trust and a will? And when do you need one over the other? Thanks and looking forward to hearing your next podcast.

[Matt]

All right, Kat, well done on getting your will done. You like that?

[Joel]

Well done, well done, well done.

[Matt]

This becomes even more important when you have kids. For sure. It's just one of those things that, like 10, I don't know, maybe even 20 years ago. I don't know. When the Internet come around, Joel, I don't know. Well, even before that they had like

[Joel]

CDs and you could buy them like at Costco or wherever. You could buy really Will Maker on a CD rom.

[Matt]

I feel like I barely remember loading

[Joel]

onto your Old school compact computer or whatever.

[Matt]

And see, I wasn't walking around Costco when I was. Sorry. I think you were, but I don't

[Joel]

think I actually really wasn't.

[Matt]

But really? Yeah.

[Joel]

And actually I wasn't sold on Costco in my early 20s, partly because when I was that young, I didn't need it.

[Matt]

In the same way, you're like, I'm just going to go out and get wings and tots with my buddies. Yeah, we don't buy food at home and cook.

[Joel]

22 year olds do, man.

[Matt]

But yes, that's what it was then. Now you've got trust and Will is a company we've talked about before. Free will is also another option to make it a lot cheaper, a lot easier. And it's just a basic piece of financial hygiene that too many people put off for too long. If you're listening, this isn't something you've done. In particular, if you have dependents, don't forget the low hanging fruit of having a will. But also I want to mention changing your beneficiaries on your investment accounts and on your retirement accounts because oftentimes these supersede the will and it takes you absolutely no time. Like truly, it takes you like 10 seconds. That is, it's amazing.

[Joel]

That's always been the craziest thing to me. I love it, that doing that simple thing. Actually you think of Will, that it's a more complex legal document, that it's going to supersede any bogus choice you made on, you know, when you were enrolling in your 401k. Alas, that is not the case and you need to go back into those accounts and see who your beneficiary is. Because man, we've seen, I've seen this in my family, we've seen this happen across in so many sad contexts where somebody else is listed as the beneficiary. It's an ex spouse, it is a friend and now you're married and you would rather have your partner. Like there's just so many cases in which someone has 10 years ago signed up for a plan, listed a specific beneficiary and they haven't changed it and it doesn't reflect their current desire.

[Matt]

You know why I think it seems like it shouldn't over override an actual will. The beneficiaries is because the beneficiaries, it feels more like a multiple choice question, right? Like we log in, it's just like, here's just like one line, you click this button and then it's done yeah, as opposed to a will. Feels like a college essay. Like a college application essay, where it's just like, oh, I need to go to counseling in order to take the first steps to be able to start writing this.

[Joel]

When you have to get it notarized, witnessed, and all that shit, it's just such a big deal.

[Matt]

It's a huge lift.

[Joel]

And you're like, clearly this is the most important document that rules everything and

[Matt]

where all my assets.

[Joel]

It's still not the case. Still not the case. So let's start with this. The goal of a trust, it's truly to simplify things from a legal perspective. If one spouse was to prematurely pass away. Right. It keeps your family and your assets out of the court system. And my guess is unless you have substantial assets, a trust would be overkill. You mentioned it being for like, quote, unquote, rich people. And that's not necessarily the case, but it is like, it doesn't make sense for people who have essentially no assets. It does create more complexity for you now, though. So there's the cost. Similar to creating your own will. It's cheaper than ever before. But you're still talking $601,000 that could potentially be used elsewhere in a better way. At this point, you might also have to take additional annoying steps, like retitling your house. There's also the ongoing maintenance factor of having a trust that needs to be updated regularly. And so it can be a hassle to update to keep up with that trust. It doesn't mean you 100% shouldn't do it, but I guess just want to put it out there that it might not be a straightforward task and not as simple as making your will.

[Matt]

Sure, yeah. And some folks might say, hey, you own a home together, so therefore you're going to be more likely to need a trust. But that may not be the case either, because it depends if you are both on the title or not. If not, well, then yes, a trust would simplify the process of passing ownership on after the death of a spouse. And so another case where you might want to consider a trust is if you have specific instructions or desires when it comes to the timing or the specifics of a potential inheritance for your child or for your children if there's multiple kids. So, for instance, you can set parameters around how much money they might receive at age 18 or 25 or 30. You can even set life stages. You must cross this. Like, you must be married or, oh, once you have a kid, you receive certain amounts of money, essentially, incentives.

[Joel]

Man, I'D marry somebody random if there was a lot of money on the line back in the day.

[Matt]

And so it's up to the parent to kind of think through that a little bit and. Because you want to, yeah, if you want there to be control and stipulations, but you also don't want to incentivize behavior that might not be in the best long term interest of the kid. But again, so, you know, it sounds like a trust would be a reasonable choice here, but it's not necessarily urgent, I would say. And it's also not completely necessary.

[Joel]

And we also don't know enough based on your question about the overall assets you have, where they are, if they're in retirement accounts, taxable brokerage, for instance,

[Matt]

and like, what's, what else is going on with their family, you know, like.

[Joel]

Yeah, and if more money is in retirement accounts, it's less necessary. So it's, it's hard to offer highly specific advice, but it's, it's likely, it's likely not overkill or completely unnecessary, but also probably not a high priority. So I would say when push comes to shove, the three main things we recommend for young families are to create a will get a term life insurance policy for each parent and to make sure your beneficiaries are up to date and accurate. If you do those three things, you've avoided almost all of the biggest potential pitfalls.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Still on top of that, as you amass assets and you grow your family, a trust might become more enticing for you in the coming years. But if you have a really young family and you don't have significant assets, that's probably something that you can wait on.

[Matt]

Yeah. And I kind of mentioned some of the family dynamics too. I mean, I think that's like a total accurate, completely accurate thing. And from what I've learned and what I've seen, if you have a very potentially contentious extended family, if you have people who are like, have served time, if someone's doing drugs, like, if it's a contentious extended family and there isn't the actual virtue of trust, this is an instance where you purchase the trust or, you know, like you pay down the money and actually create your own trust, is that actually how the term came about? I don't know.

[Joel]

I have no idea.

[Matt]

I don't know. And this is, I mean, again, this sounds silly and this is a very broad sort of statement, but I do feel differently if it's, you know, on one hand you have a family like I just described, and on the other hand, it's like, oh, we've got both sets of parents incredibly loving, incredibly involved with the kids. We talk about money a good bit. Everyone has a fantastic relationship towards money. Oh, they are financially stable as well. Okay. All of these things, these are aspects that point to a healthy environment for them to potentially raise your kids and also be the direct benefactors of your wealth that they would inherit to then that you would then trust them to make the best decisions. Because that's the thing. You can lay out all these stipulations, but you don't know the future. Right. And you can't account for every single stipulation. And so that's where taking the this is the more shooting from the hip Joel approach. Right. Like is to not have a trust, but basing some of your decisions on conversations that you've had and whether or not you trust your, you know, your parents in particular to make the best decision or whoever it is that has guardianship and is the benefactor of your wealth as well.

[Joel]

And it's just also important to note that the probate process can be annoying and it can vary by state. The state rules vary. And so knowing that and what you might come up against will also help inform whether or not that's a trust makes sense for you.

[Matt]

That's right.

[Joel]

All right, we got a couple more questions to get to Matt, including we're talking about helocs and we're going to talk about prescription sunglasses, the cheap ones. We'll get to that right after this.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

All right, buddy, let's keep this thing rolling. We are back from the break. We've got now the Facebook question of the week, which is from Jennifer who wrote I've lost my prescription sunglasses and am looking to replace any advice on where to buy an affordable pair that I won't be so upset to lose. Joel, the answer. This is such an easy one. Zenny Optical baby.

[Joel]

Yeah, yeah. Every time basically. And then there are other by the way players I think that we can mention who do the same.

[Matt]

But like how has your daughter been adjusting to the great.

[Joel]

Yeah, so we just. I think we talked about this a month and a half, two months ago. But yes, she just got some a prescription for just getting those headaches. You know, classic kind of fourth or fifth graders.

[Matt]

Just one eye, right? One did one or no, that's you both. You told me that's. It was around then that you told me that you actually one of your eyes isn't that you told my eyes are perfect.

[Joel]

Dude. I think.

[Matt]

Wait.

[Joel]

Yeah, it's Emily. Emily's got a bad eye.

[Matt]

I thought somebody. I thought it was you that you wore glasses when you were younger.

[Joel]

Oh maybe to for like reading up close but I didn't really need them, I don't think.

[Matt]

Yeah, that's what I remember. I remember thinking I've never seen you with glasses.

[Joel]

I've been gifted great vision unfortunately do it unlike you my friend. But yeah, no, she's loving them.

[Matt]

My eyes, they're super cute because we got -1.75 isn't all that bad.

[Joel]

You're right. I think. I think Poly's is plus 0.75, 0.5 on the other Eye. Okay, that's not too bad. But yeah. And we got four pairs of glasses for 90 bucks. And guess what? We got some clip on sunglasses included in that as well. And you can get straight up prescription sunglasses.

[Matt]

Yeah. So that's what I've done with Zenny and it's been a while now since I've ordered some. I just actually logged in in preparation for the recording of this episode. Joel. And I thought these Zennies that I'm currently wearing, how. When did I get these? 20, 21.

[Joel]

Wow.

[Matt]

I found these bad boys for five years. And that's also when I got the prescription version of these same frames. And so I've got.

[Joel]

The sunglass version, you mean?

[Matt]

Yes, what I said.

[Joel]

You said prescription version.

[Matt]

I'm sorry, the sunglass version. So I've got the same frames, obviously, the ones that I'm wearing right now that are perfectly clear. And I also have the polarized sunglasses, which cost a little bit more money to actually get it polarized. And it also costs a little bit more money to get the blue reflective tint because I want to look awesome. So what does that look like when I'm wearing those bad boys?

[Joel]

Like 50 bucks.

[Matt]

It's like twice. Yeah. Because I get the special coatings. So Normally it's like 2022. With the special coating it's like 30. And the prescription sunglass version is like double that. So it was 60. But also I'm going all in and getting all. Getting all the treatments.

[Joel]

So you can do it for less.

[Matt]

You can do it for less. You don't have. I couldn't. I could have not gotten the reflective blue mirror finish.

[Joel]

Then you wouldn't look as cool.

[Matt]

I wouldn't look nearly as awesome. Like, who wants to sit around on a beach with just a dull sunglasses? You have the reflect, the cool reflective action going on.

[Joel]

Different people feel different ways about sunglasses too. I think of them as a throwaway item.

[Matt]

Not when you are. Not when you have prescription sunglasses.

[Joel]

I guess not. I guess not. But like, I guess you could even, like if you could get three or three pairs for $100 or something, then. Then at least when you lose a pair, you don't. It's not the end of the world. Yeah, but that's why I've been reticent to buy.

[Matt]

People who wear glasses don't lose sunglasses.

[Joel]

Yeah, yeah. Because they're used to keep your track.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Joel]

But I'm the kind of guy who loses.

[Matt]

Leaves them less.

[Joel]

Less so now than ever before. But. But yeah, I'll Pay. The most I'll pay for a pair of sunglasses is 40 and usually I like to pay like 12 to 15.

[Matt]

I just remembered that as much as I'm talking big about keeping up with my stuff, remember the beach trip and my sunglasses, I had my prescription sunglasses on. Was it with y' all? Or maybe it was with family.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

Yeah. Big old wave hit me.

[Joel]

Uh huh.

[Matt]

Lost the glasses. I was so sad. So you gotta have the, the next year Kate got me the little rope things. Yes. That attached to that way when you're playing in the water with the kids.

[Joel]

So Zenny's the place to go for Jennifer. But also check out this site called Firmoo. They seem to have a great selection of cool, cute, low cost shades and they have a better return policy than Zenny as well. So it's worth checking that out. And then ibuydirect is another one that's been around for, that's kind of low cost. Just check them all out. You might find different, different varieties of shades that you like at one and not the other. But it's, it's all like truly at this point in time I don't understand how everyone's not buying their glasses from these low cost websites that have like the best. They've completely changed the game in terms of sunglasses and just traditional prescription eyeglasses.

[Matt]

I think the reason being is people don't want to take the risk when they can't try them on.

[Joel]

Yeah, right.

[Matt]

And that's where someone like Warby Parker really like. Oh, I'm pretty sure there's a Warby Parker at SO&OR Downtown or at the mall or here and so you go and you try them on. You find a pair that you like but then you end up knowing, knowing the frames.

[Joel]

Well even Warby Parker is that kind of in between middle ground. Like so it's not like you're spending a ridiculous amount of money for a pair of glasses. But still you save a lot more than that.

[Matt]

That is true. Let's take one more. This is from an anonymous poster who wrote what are some things to look for that make one HELOC better than another? Is there anything to look out for? Also talk me out of it if you have a good reason, which I totally. Yeah, I appreciate that. Happy to listen. Would be used for our primary house updating as per the IRS code for tax benefit, which hey, how about let's address the tax benefit side of things first, you only get that tax benefit if you itemize your taxes and there are A lot of folks out there who, I mean by a lot, I mean the vast majority of tax filers,

[Joel]

something close to 90% this past spring,

[Matt]

I think it's even more because of how generous it's gotten, are not itemizing their taxes. And so you might be thinking, oh, I'm doing this for doing the kitchen remodel for tax purposes. And it's like actually yeah, you're not, you're not receiving any tax benefit. Not to mention it'd be a bad

[Joel]

idea anyway to do it just for tax purposes. And then the fact that you don't get a tax benefit, the tax benefit you thought you would, makes it even more of a ridiculous choice. So know whether or not you're itemizing, whether or not you're actually going to get it.

[Matt]

And there's caps as well where they, where it's, the total combines it with mortgage interest as well. So I mean, yeah, don't let the, that's where the, you don't want that tax tail to wag the HELOC dog for sure.

[Joel]

And HELOCs are of course a way to tap your home equity. And most of the time the best use case is to not use it. That's what we have said for many, many years now. Average equity for homeowners has skyrocketed in recent years and I think for a lot of people, man, it creates this incentive to grab some of it, right? It's like, well man, I bought this house for like, for like 350 and now it's worth 8:50, man. There's like, there's like 500k there I can do some cool stuff with. But, but homes aren't piggy banks and there are real risks to snagging some of those equity dollars even if you do get a tax benefit. Right. And so yeah, I just think you need to be very careful before you decide to use HELOC money. You have to know your payoff timeline and you have to realize the trade offs because we are talking about rates are not what they used to be.

[Matt]

And so borrowing it used to feel like free money. Yeah, it doesn't feel like free money.

[Joel]

I'd rather in many cases save up longer.

[Matt]

Oh please. Right. That's the way to do it. That's the absolute best way to go. And if that would take too long or if you absolutely have to make a repair, like let's say you need to put on a new roof, well, just make sure you have a plan to pay it off incredibly quickly because the longer your payoff timeline, the more interest you're going to end up paying, of course. And some folks are going to just take their sweet time. They're going to pay it off slowly, which is not good. Ideally you would be able to pay this back in like two to three years. And if you can't, man. Yeah. Try to just save up a little more cash. That way you can avoid tapping more of that equity there in that home.

[Joel]

And it's important to mention the best deals for borrowing almost always come from a solid local credit union.

[Matt]

Right. Yes.

[Joel]

National credit unions can be an excellent choice too if you have a relationship with one. And watch out for teaser rates that don't last long, especially if you're not going to be able to pay that HELOC off quickly. We're seeing more and more HELOC products come from like non banking institutions that are, that maybe have you a forced drawdown requirement. You're like, well I wasn't going to tap it and get that much out but gosh, if I have to, I'll do it. That just means you start the clock ticking on interest earlier. You're paying more in overall interest because of that. Credit unions are going to be almost inevitably the slam dunk choice when it comes to borrowing against your home. When you're looking at a mortgage product or a home equity product, I think credit unions are a no brainer.

[Matt]

That's right. Shall we get back to the beer?

[Joel]

Let's do it.

[Matt]

You have a. Do you have a little story you want to share about. About the. This is the Piedmont Brewery.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Which is a place that we've actually visited before.

[Joel]

Yeah. And we hit it up again on our way back from a recent trip. And one solid food, solid space. You got like pinball machines down in the basement.

[Matt]

Did you head back down there again?

[Joel]

We did. Make sure a fun experience. And the kids are playing like cruising USA from the 90s or whatever. That's just like how grainy the graphics are of like the girls in bikinis holding up the signs. You're supposed to start going. I was like, okay. I had forgotten that this game existed.

[Matt]

You're like, oh, the 90s, good times, good times.

[Joel]

And so picked up some beers over there because they've got great beers. And we had this beer on draft. I will say it was better on draft than it was can. And it tastes much sweeter actually coming out of the can. It's almost like a juice concentrate sort of sweetness.

[Matt]

It is. That's totally what I wrote down.

[Joel]

Is it?

[Matt]

So it's got incredible bot. Like, it's a. It's a highly textured beer. Right. So the body, like the mouthfeel of the beer, like, it's. It's very forward on, like on the citrus, but specifically orange. Like orangey. And it made. It made me think of like. Like I was drinking a carton of orange juice from concentrate.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

You know, like that feel that you have in your mouth where it's kind of. It's a little bit thicker and you kind of, you know, you're kind of still working on it after you stuck to your cheeks. Swallowed it five minutes ago. That was on the front end. The front end. I also picked up on like a very melon, like, sort of sweetness. Like I don't know if it's like cantaloupe or honeydew or something like that, but it has a very melony, like, flavor as well, which I think I liked. So. Yeah, like that. Because it also kind of had like this bitter note to it. So less the. The orangey texture. Wasn't as big of a fan of that, but I kind of dug the. The kind of honeydewishness on the end.

[Joel]

It's also just really interesting to drink a beer and then have one the next night out of a can. And like the draft versus can differential,

[Matt]

there is a difference.

[Joel]

Sometimes it's insignificant. Sometimes it's meaningful. I want to say this tasted almost like a completely different beer than the Louisiana draft. And still good, but not as much

[Matt]

as I remember it. Yeah, well, so much of enjoying a

[Joel]

beer is the space, right?

[Matt]

And you're stuck here with me in our clubhouse. It's not nearly as cool as a cool, historic downtown spot that's got pinball machines down the basement.

[Joel]

That's true. We put pinball machines up here.

[Matt]

We could. I'm not really into pinball machines. Some people are. They can be really expensive. Like there's. There's this company that like makes these really high end pinball machines and has all these, you know, it's like computers and stuff built into it. So like, they're really fancy. But what if there's a how to money pinball machine like you and I on our faces? My mouth opens and closes. Oh, that'd be cool. You try to flick the balls into my mouth.

[Joel]

Sounds terrible.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, but that's.

[Joel]

Let's not do that one.

[Matt]

That's pinball machines.

[Joel]

All right, that's gonna do it. For this episode, we'll put links in the show notes on our [e-mail] for some of the resources that we mentioned. Check it out.

[Matt]

You know it and that'll be it for this episode. So until next time, Best Friends Out. Best Friends out.

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[Matt]

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