Ask HTM - Debating a Raise vs WFH Flexibility, Investing in Nvidia, & Digital Hygiene Frugal or Cheap #1111

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Money – Ask HTM #1111 (March 9, 2026)

Episode Theme & Purpose
In this Ask HTM episode, Joel and Matt dive into real listener questions about major money decisions—balancing a raise vs. work-from-home flexibility, managing concentrated stock holdings (specifically Nvidia), the value of digital hygiene versus frugality, ethical approaches to medical bill negotiations, and best practices in auto insurance and financial education for young adults. The tone is friendly, humorous, and honest, with both hosts candidly sharing personal stories and nuanced advice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Raise vs. WFH Flexibility – Which Matters More?

Listener Question (Ron from NY, 07:52):
Should I take a substantial raise and commute three days a week, or maintain my flexible fully-remote role, given that my partner and I are already ahead financially and long-term focused on FIRE (financial independence, retire early)?

Deep Dive (08:50–19:54):

• Personal & Financial Stage:
  Joel and Matt acknowledge there is no one-size-fits-all; it depends greatly on stage of life, personal values, current savings, and flexibility goals.
  • “Let’s say you are on the tail end of things... in your 50s, solid nest egg built up... something like this would be less enticing.” – Matt (09:36)
• Trends:
  Younger generations increasingly value flexibility (10:29).
• Front-Loading Sacrifice:
  Choosing more work now may boost future freedom. But if you’re close to “coast FIRE,” maybe enjoy more flexibility now.
  • “Working harder and making more now are ultimately what offer greater levels of future flexibility.” – Joel (12:24)
• Negotiate or Decline Strategically:
  Employ negotiation if you want some—but not all—responsibilities. Communicate clearly with leadership to avoid limiting future opportunities (18:11).
• Key Consideration:
  Weigh current vs. future lifestyle, commute quality, and your goals in and outside of work.

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2. Nvidia Stock Windfall – How to Handle It?

Listener Question (Kyle from VA, 22:59):
What should I do about my Nvidia holdings, which exploded in value ($800k), now making up a large chunk of my investments? How do I reduce and rebalance for tax efficiency?

Advice & Analysis (23:39–34:54):

• Concentration Risk:
  Most people shouldn’t let single stocks grow beyond 5% of portfolio – but exceptions exist if you’re already well-diversified (28:46).
  • “If it went belly up, it wouldn't break you... it wouldn't derail my ability to retire, to even retire early.” – Matt (29:45)
• Gradual Selling:
  Avoid selling all at once—spread dispositions over years to avoid high capital gains taxes (32:40).
  • “No reason to create a self-inflicted tax wound to remedy this overnight.” – Joel (32:15)
• Other Options:
  • Increase ongoing index-fund contributions, though Nvidia may keep outpacing (34:05)
  • Donate appreciated shares to a Donor-Advised Fund for tax benefits—"triple whammy" tactic (34:54)
• The Takeaway:
  Know your target exposure as a % of portfolio; exit gradually; use strategic giving if aligned with values and situation.

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3. Frugality vs. Digital Hygiene – Are You Just Being Cheap?

Listener Question (Graham, 36:03):
Is refusing to pay for secure, easy iCloud photo backup real frugality or just needless cheapness? At what small dollar amount do you “stop worrying” about expenses? And when does it become ethical to just pay a bill instead of maximizing discounts (re: medical bills)?

Debate & Takeaways (37:50–44:05):

• Digital Hygiene:
  Some recurring tech expenses (like automatic photo backup) are worth paying for peace of mind.
  • “That's something I'm willing to [pay]. Pictures of Kate and I before we had kids, traveling... those pictures are priceless to me.” – Matt (38:37)
• Mental Energy vs. Dollar Value:
  • Use heuristics (like Nick Maggiulli’s 0.01% net worth rule) sparingly; “It can lack nuance… it’s a slippery slope.” – Matt (41:14)
  • Prioritize spending on what brings real value; focus less on nickel-and-diming when you’re in a stable financial place (40:16).
• Values-Based Spending Filter:
  Joel: Ask yourself, “Am I being generous toward my future self, and does this purchase align with my values—or am I being frugal just because I’m anxious?”
• Notable Quote:
  “Old habits die hard, Matt. And so it's something I have to consciously work on. I guess part of my hangup too is that I also see frugality as a virtue.” – Joel (40:16)

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4. Medical Bill Negotiation Ethics

Listener Commentary (Graham, 36:03) & Host Reflection (44:05–49:23):

• Listener’s Concern:
  Is it ethical to let medical bills go to collections for a steep discount if you could pay in full? Might this hurt the overall system?
• Host Position:
  Use every (legal) tool within the system. The medical billing process is already stacked against consumers.
  • “It makes you think for some reason of people who have achieved FIRE...they have the ability to get extremely subsidized health care… would you take advantage of them?... It's a really... I get kind of the moral conundrum.” – Joel (46:45)
• Analogy:
  Similar to optimizing taxes or credit card rewards—you should play by the rules as written, and if the institutions want change, they’ll adapt their policies.
  • “If there is an outlet for you to explore and to legally receive assistance or discount, then you take it.” – Matt (45:53)
• Nuances Acknowledged:
  It's okay to have different stances—this is a gray area, not clear black-and-white (49:17).

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5. Comparing Auto Insurance – How to Shop Smarter

Listener’s Facebook Question (Brendan, 52:26):
How do you best compare auto insurance quotes without just choosing whoever advertises most?

Quick Fix (52:56–55:55):

• Answer:
  Use independent agents or aggregator sites (TrustedChoice, PolicyGenius). Get multiple quotes at once for less hassle and better rates.
• Note:
  Some companies only quote directly—hit them up separately, if needed.
• Insight:
  Insurance ads push for brand loyalty, but “loyalty gets punished.” Shop around regularly—10–30% savings is common.

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6. Book Recommendations for Young Adults Starting Out

Listener Email (Tony, 56:30):
What’s the best book to help my 25-year-old son think smart about money?

Suggestions (57:27–58:50):

• The Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins
  “He's like the godfather of personal finance... doesn't overcomplicate things.” – Matt (57:54)
• Own Your Time by Andy Hill
  For putting wealth in the context of life independence.
• Personal Format Matters:
  Consider if the recipient prefers print, audiobook, or podcast—engagement is more important than medium.

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Notable & Memorable Quotes

• “Working harder and making more now are ultimately what offer greater levels of future flexibility.” – Joel (12:24)
• “If it went belly up, it wouldn't break you... it wouldn't derail my ability to retire, to even retire early.” – Matt (29:45)
• “Is it going to break the bank? No. And I think Graham points to the wasted mental energy, which is a real thing.” – Joel (39:25)
• “If there is an outlet for you to explore and to legally receive assistance or a discount, then that's something you take.” – Matt (45:53)
• “Old habits die hard, Matt. And so it's something I have to consciously work on. I guess part of my hang up too is that I also see frugality as a virtue.” – Joel (40:16)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |---------------------------------------------|----------------| | Intro & Overview | 01:20–01:44 | | Raise vs. WFH Flexibility (Ron) | 07:52–19:54 | | Nvidia Stock Rebalancing (Kyle) | 22:59–34:54 | | Digital Hygiene v. Cheapness (Graham) | 36:03–44:05 | | Medical Bill Negotiation Ethics (Graham) | 44:05–49:23 | | Auto Insurance Comparison (Brendan) | 52:26–55:55 | | Book Rec for Young Adults (Tony) | 56:30–58:50 | | Wrap Up (Beer Chat and Outros) | 60:01–63:47 |

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Wrap-Up & Tone

• Friendly banter: As always, Joel and Matt mix in personal stories, light teasing (e.g., about cheapness, photos, and grilling out), and audience engagement.
• Stance on money: Purpose-driven, nuanced, and values-based, with a focus on “having money serve your life,” not the other way around.
• Encouragement: Listener questions are welcomed, and the show’s recurring advice is to think long-term, balance optimization with real life, and make intentional—not just maximal—decisions.

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For further reading and resources, see: HowToMoney.com (as referenced in-episode).

Transcript

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Joel]

Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person?

[Boys and Girls Podcast Host]

Welcome to the boys and girls podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show, and you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition hoping to find love the right way. And instead, I found chaos, comedy, and a lot of cringe. Listen to boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joel]

Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

And I am Matt.

[Joel]

And today we're answering your listener questions.

[Matt]

That's right, buddy. Like we do here on Mondays at How to Money, we like to hear directly from listeners who have sent us a voice memoir for us to talk about hair. On the podcast, for instance, a listener is debating taking a raise versus the current flexibility that he. That he has. So it's a. That another listener has got a whole lot of Nvidia stock. He's got Nvidia out the nose. And he wants to know what he

[Joel]

should be doing with it so much. He's even started dressing like Jensen Huang. He's wearing the black leather jacket wherever he goes. That's. That's when you know you have a problem.

[Matt]

Yeah. If that's your Halloween costume, I think you're too into single stock listening.

[Joel]

Of all the people that I know who could pull that off? You could totally pull that outfit off.

[Matt]

I probably could.

[Joel]

You've even got his hair. Do I? Yeah. I mean, I think if you combed it over to the side more, you could totally look like him.

[Matt]

I know he wears the black leather jacket. I don't actually know what he looks like. Okay, Joel, All Asian people don't look the same.

[Joel]

Okay, dude, that's not what I'm saying. Don't get me in trouble.

[Matt]

Another listener. He pushed back a little bit on our take when it comes to medical bills. How to approach that. So we'll get to. We'll hear from Graham, plus a couple others during this episode. Buddy.

[Joel]

No doubt. All right. Can I lament on something really quickly? Please do. And this is. There's advice in it for myself and for everyone else out there. This is me eating my own cooking.

[Matt]

Get sorrowful here.

[Joel]

Okay, so what are you sad about? Got the credit card bill in the mail. I am going over the individual charges.

[Matt]

Wait, so. Okay, just pause right there.

[Joel]

Actual physically.

[Matt]

That's what I was gonna ask. I feel like I interrupted you really early on into the story. You're literally looking over the physical paper.

[Joel]

Statement, paper, statement. That came in the mail. All right, I do like that. I do prefer it than looking digitally. That's so funny. All right, so, hey, if that's the

[Matt]

system that works for you, more power to you. Yeah. So I'm not gonna knock it.

[Joel]

It works when it comes in. That's when I look at it. And this is a credit card we don't use as often, and so has far fewer charges on it. So it's quicker to read over. And I. I think I know where

[Matt]

the direction this could be going. Cause I have a card or two like that.

[Joel]

Do you? Okay. So I yield down that I used

[Matt]

to use a whole lot, and now it's just kind sitting there. It just kind of helps to bolster the available credit that I have to my name.

[Joel]

Yep. So I'm not canceling it, but I'm also not using it regularly. But I had to yell down the stairs to my wife and be like, did you start back at that gym down the street that you haven't gone to in years? And she was like, no. You know the gym. I don't go to that one. I go to this one. I was like, yeah. I mean, that's what I thought. But they just tried to charge us 50 bucks, and I don't. I don't know why.

[Matt]

Oh, snap.

[Joel]

Years. It's been years since she has darkened the door.

[Matt]

I know which one you're talking about of this gym. It's kind of a chain. Yes. But they've got your individual spots. Yeah.

[Joel]

So I could have called the credit card company immediately, but I called the business first.

[Matt]

Yeah. That's what you're supposed to do. Good for you, dude.

[Joel]

And I was like, hey, it's really weird that you guys would charge us. It's been a long time.

[Matt]

It's been a couple years.

[Joel]

So she looks it up. She's like, oh, I see you in the system.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

She's like, that's so weird. I don't know how that happened. And so I didn't want to rake him over the coals and be a jerk. And I don't know if that person was the manager or the owner of that particular. So I was just going to let it go, but I was like, please do refund that charge and then also take our credit card off of the file that you have because for some reason you're slinging charges that were. That are clearly fraudulent.

[Matt]

So she was willing to refund it, no problem.

[Joel]

Like, she didn't push back. Yeah, no problem.

[Matt]

Pushback at all.

[Joel]

Which is good for you, dude. Yeah. I think a lot of people assume that whatever is on the credit card statement, Matt, is what they owe. And the truth is that's not always the case. You never know what's going to end up there. It's really important to check your credit card statement every month.

[Matt]

I will say I do think that that's fairly rare, though. Like, I can't think of a single charge because typically if I get charged for something, it's because I've forgotten to cancel it. It's because. Oh, dang it. Yeah, it's another month. It made me think about actually getting

[Joel]

over having this on you.

[Matt]

It's normally on you as opposed to. I can't honestly think of a single. Oh, wait, I can think of that car rental that I had to cancel. I told that story at some point, I think last fall.

[Joel]

You did.

[Matt]

But that was more of a. The company dragging its feet when it came to refunding me, the cancellation, as opposed to just kind of an out of the blue charge because typically, yeah, it's on you as an individual. Oh. And so Kate and I were having the conversation after the Olympics and I was just like, I wish. I wish I could see some sort of like, dashboard that Peacock has that shows all the people who are canceling their membership right now as the closing ceremonies are taken, or even in our case, Kate canceled it in the car after the. After US vs Canada, after the hockey game. Because we're talking about how. How great it was that America won, that U.S. won, and. And also that photo. I forget the guy's name.

[Joel]

One of the greatest.

[Matt]

Busted out tea bloody grin, the American flag over iconic dude that Made me. Yeah. It makes you feel warm inside. Makes you feel proud to be an American. But yeah, yeah, we're talking about that. And it's like, well, I'm gonna go ahead and cancel it now because we're not going to watch the closing ceremonies. And I'm like, how many people are currently, right now, at this very moment also canceling their Peacock memberships? I was like, it's either going to be now or it's going to be a month from now. Once they're hit with that, you know, the next month's charge really like, oh, dang it, we forgot to cancel it.

[Joel]

Or what's going to happen is for most people, they're not checking their credit card statements. They forget that they have the subscription.

[Matt]

I'm assuming we're all money nerds.

[Joel]

Like all Olympics are over. I'm, I'm just not really, you know, Joy. I'm not hopping over to Peacock to see what's playing anymore.

[Matt]

But forget it's even there.

[Joel]

They're still paying for.

[Matt]

You're still paying for it. Yeah, that's what we don't want the sea folks to do.

[Joel]

That's right. That's what we want you to avoid. Let's mention the beer we're having on this episode, Matt. This is a delirium tremens classic. A Belgian ale. Yeah. With the pink elephant that's iconic on front. We'll give our thoughts on this one at the end of the episode. If you have a money question, go to howtomoney.com ask or literally just record it on your phone and email it over to [e-mail] hopefully we can take your fun interesting. Oh, fascinating money question next week on the show, Matt. Let's get to this first question. It specifically centers around a decision of whether or not to work more and make more or not.

[Ron (Caller)]

Hey man. Joel, this is Ron from New York. I've got a career related money question I've been thinking about and would love your take. My partner and I are in our early 30s. My partner is self employed and I've been with my company for quite a while. I was recently told I'm likely up for a promotion. Right now I make around six figures before bonus plus a small passive side hustle that brings in a few thousand a year. The promotion would likely come with a mid five figure raise, but it would also mean going into the office about three days a week. I'm currently fully remote and the commute would be roughly an hour each way. The role Itself would mostly build on work I'm already doing. So the responsibilities wouldn't change dramatically, just the expectations and time commitment for context. My partner and I have been pretty aggressive savers and feel ahead of the curve financially with a long term goal of financial independence sometime down the road. Given the pay bump versus the lifestyle trade off, do you think this kind of raise is typically worth it? Thanks so much. Love the show. Best friends out.

[Matt]

Joel, this is a great ask how to money question here.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Because Ron, there's not a clear answer here. So the ability for us to talk about all the ins and outs of it, this is going to be fun.

[Joel]

I know. I like this kind of, these kind of questions are fun.

[Matt]

Yeah, he's, he's debating whether to accept more income, like essentially a raise or to be able to maintain his current lifestyle. And I mean, obviously the answer is not going to be the same for everyone. And it almost always, I think centers around your personal goals. It depends on the stage of life you're in. Like just a whole host of factors. Because Ron, let's say in Your early to mid-20s, let's say you're just starting out with your, your finances, you're trying to build some wealth. Well, a raise like this is not typically something you pass up.

[Joel]

Right. Like this is huge.

[Matt]

But let's say you are on the tail end of things. Let's say you're in your 50s, you've got a solid nest egg built up. In that case, something like this would be less enticing. And so that being said, in both of those situations, the answer is a bit more clear. But for Ron, I think he's somewhere in the middle. So yeah, there is more to talk about here.

[Joel]

I don't think Ron's 25. I don't think he's 55.

[Ron (Caller)]

Right.

[Joel]

And so it is, it's more in that in between space where you've got to kind of do, do some soul searching. And Matt, some surveys reveal actually how hesitant younger generations are to trade a flexible lifestyle for more pay. It seems like I believe it. There just is more of an interest and a desire for young folks to appreciate and enjoy more flexibility and balance even if it means they're not going to make quite as much money. Yeah, a lot of that is great.

[Graham (Listener)]

Right.

[Joel]

And I will say I, I would count my, I count myself amongst that crowd.

[Matt]

Yeah. Well, I'm thinking about a long time ago when I was earlier on in the stage of life that we're in. We just had our first daughter, but there was a job opening at a great tech company in town that I had a lot of friends at. It was a perfect. It was like perfectly aligned with my skill sets. And we seriously considered it, especially since, and I mentioned my daughter had just been born. Because this particular company, their employees paid $0 towards their medical. All medical costs were covered. Which I'm like, well, that would have been a $10,000 just bonus.

[Joel]

Sure.

[Matt]

Based on the fact that we just had a kid and we're planning to have additional kids. But as I thought through, what would that look like? Oh, it would mean, oh, man, getting up early every morning, commuting to work, which sounds like, I mean, a normal working stance. Maybe I was a slacker at that point, at that point in life. But I talked with Kate and we're saying, man, gosh, it would be nice to have benefits, man, it would be nice to have a 401k match. Oh, steady income, what's that like? We haven't dealt with that in a number of years, but at the end of the day, decided, you know what, the flexibility that we have to be able to call our own shots, make our own rules, that was too valuable for us to consider pursuing this job that I was not necessarily guaranteed. But yeah, well.

[Joel]

And I get that trend and I totally understand it. And in fact, part of the reason I went into the career that I chose in media, I was like, I'm probably not going to get paid as much as I could going into other career fields that I'm. That also might be somewhat interesting. But this is what I'm really fascinated by. This is what I really want to do. If I get paid less, I'm okay with it. Right.

[Matt]

On one hand you're like, I'm thinking radio, but on the other hand I'm thinking of like rocket scientist or hedge fund manager.

[Joel]

Let's be honest, that wasn't a possibility.

[Matt]

I know you were debating between one of those two. Right. Those two fields.

[Joel]

But I think it's important to note, it's important to state out loud too, that working harder and making more now are ultimately what offer greater levels of future flexibility. So there is this trade off where if you are like our, you know, friend Doc G calls it front loading sacrifice. If you're willing to put in a little more work and you have this opportunity to increase your income. Like that's what makes this question so interesting for Ron, because he might not actually need that additional income. But for a lot of people, if you're prioritizing current flexibility, you might be Trading off and have less flexibility down the road.

[Matt]

Yes. Yeah, that's right, man. Yeah. It is all about trade offs and you gotta find, you gotta find that balance. And I will say too, like, there is a lot of sort of hustle culture stuff coming out of the tech world where folks are saying that, you know, you can be balanced, you can have a balanced life and you can be successful, which is not true, man. Like, it just depends on your, like, what your idea of success is. Dude. I'll say for me, like, it's not like quote unquote, changing the world. It's doing a good job here at how to money. And I will say, actually, I'll take that back because there's a certain amount of the work that we do that has a pretty wide impact. It's just not. I don't know. This is so meta. Because I feel like it's not our

[Joel]

life's mission statement though. To change the world.

[Matt]

No, exactly. But like, yeah, I don't want to get too like classical education with it, but like Nicope Keenan ethics. Aristotle talks about like, we are political creatures, which means. And not politics from like a red versus blue, right. But like from a relationship standpoint. And the impact that we have on our own lives at home, that trickles out. And it has like, when you are doing well at home, when you are doing well as an individual, it empowers the community that you're in, in the city and ultimately your, Your country, the world. So to a certain extent, a small

[Joel]

impact is the work that we are

[Matt]

doing, I feel like, is somewhat world changing.

[Joel]

She's not making the papers, right?

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. As opposed to someone who's just like, oh, we're gonna. Let's build like the most sexy like, job title where someone's really pumped to talk about what it is that they do. Perhaps. But I'm also trying to weigh that at the same time knowing that what we get to do is also very cool and sometimes we forget that. So I'll say sometimes I forget that myself. But the ability though, for us just to like, have a quote, like a normal life and just to go into the office, try to do good in our community, do a great job with our family, like, that is more of my mission. And for you, Ron, like, you got to figure out where that balance is for you. Because if you have to now commute to work and if that's not gonna cramp your lifestyle too hard, maybe you even enjoy it some. In addition to that, the pay bump, like, let's Say that that shortens your, your, your trajectory towards financial independence significantly. Well, I think it could seem like a seriously worthy consideration. It's just crucial to consider not just your current lifestyle and your flexibility goals, but how each of these decisions would impact your long term ability to reach those goals and the goals you might have off in the future as well. It's not just the here and now. It's you got to look off into the future a little bit and try to decide what it is that future Ron is also going to want to be into.

[Joel]

It's kind of like what we talk about with tax planning.

[Graham (Listener)]

Right.

[Joel]

And it's not all about maximizing your current year's tax savings.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

It's about the, the whole, okay, how are you going to save the most in taxes across decades? And that's kind of the mindset we want you to bring to this. Ron. While this feels like a decision for right now, for the next year or two, this actually has bigger ramifications. You said you're already ahead of the curve financially. I'd be curious to know what you mean by that. Are you ahead of the average American? That's great, but also not astounding, right?

[Matt]

That's true.

[Joel]

Are you approaching coast fire? Because you two have been getting after it hard. Well, so you know, you're already closing in on the point where you can be less opportunistic. You, you're able to take more advantage of the freedom that you've been saving, that you've been investing for and that you've already accrued. Yet you don't need much additional income to be able to capitalize on that. And part of the power in saving and investing to garner that freedom is actually using the freedom that you have that you have gained. And so where's your lifestyle headed? Let's say kids are coming down the pike in a few years. You might want to say, oh, I'm going to make hay while the sun shines. I'm going to prioritize working a little bit more, you know, saving, squirreling away some of that extra income so that I have even more free time to spend once kids hit the scene. Or you might be in a financial position to work less now and then because you've been so frugal and savvy. So much is in the details of where your finances actually stand, how liquid you are, and then also what your near to medium term goals are going to look like as well.

[Matt]

Absolutely. Let's get into the specifics though, because Ron said that his work Wouldn't change meaningfully. Right. So if it's not going to add a ton of stress, it's not like you're all of a sudden managing like a hundred people or something like that now. If so, well, that's an argument for considering this promotion because. Did he said mid five figures?

[Joel]

Yeah, I think like $50,000.

[Matt]

He says he makes around six figures now, which. Okay, so 100k. And if he's. If you're. If you're looking at a promotion that's going to give you an additional mid five figures, so you're going from 100 to 150, potentially, that's pretty great. So I don't know, in some ways, like, I hear that, and I think, all right, well, you got to commute six hours a week. I know you're not very excited about that, but maybe you can get into audiobooks and listen to every single how to money podcast of all time that there's ever been created. I don't know. I think that's definitely worth considering when you were kind of like diving into these specifics. But I mean, obviously, the more financially independent you become, well, the easier it is going to be to be able to turn down some of these larger sums of money because you don't need it.

[Graham (Listener)]

Right.

[Matt]

Like, it doesn't align with your other goals. Like, you've sort of reached what it is that more money, what that can do for you. And you're like, well, no, it's not. It's not worth it to me. So only you know what those additional goals are. You got to take that into account.

[Joel]

You also have to consider what happens if you say no. Right. Because turning down a promotion can lead to reduced opportunities in your workplace in the future. It can send a signal maybe that you don't want us to send. Especially if you're like, no. I mean, I still need income for the next 10 years, and I still want my managers to like me, and I still want to be able to continue to do work that energizes me here. Well, if you decide to decline this promotion, be sure to communicate with leadership about why you want to stay in your current role. Help them see that you're still committed to the company and to your role inside of it, but that this enhanced role, this promotion, it's not conducive to your lifestyle right now or the specific things you're looking for.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think that's totally fair.

[Joel]

And playing hard to get, Matt, sometimes works too.

[Matt]

Right?

[Joel]

You might even be able to negotiate a modified promotion where you get to, you know, come in one or two, one to two days a week with these slightly increased responsibilities with the full

[Matt]

page, two hours of commuting, all of a sudden it's just like, all right, wait a minute. Yeah, you just, you sweeten the pot.

[Joel]

I like that. If they really want you. Yeah.

[Matt]

The ability to negotiate and just, I think, like just talking about it, I think will be helpful for your managers or your boss to sort of see what it is that you are prioritizing. And maybe there's.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Like some way that they can meet you in the middle ground. I like that a lot. Plus, there's something kind of wholesome and robust about you. Not like drawing a line in the sand, but to even say, well, this is really important to me. All of a sudden there's this additional facet of who you are as a person that to me, I don't know, maybe not to your boss or your company because maybe they're like, oh, we want everybody back in the office. But to me, at least that makes you a more interesting person and someone who I would want to continue to have on my team. Ron.

[Joel]

Yeah, agreed. We got more to get to, including rebalancing your portfolio when you got a lot of money tied up in one stock. We'll get to that and more right after this. Man. We've hired some great folks to work behind the scenes with us at how to money over the years. If you're a small business, you know this. The right hire can make or break things for you. Hoping the right people see your job posting is not the best growth strategy. So when the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs.

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

That's right, yeah. Use AI to jumpstart and finish your work. I think it's great to get ideas down faster and move from draft to done with less friction. You can use AI chat to brainstorm ideas, outline a solid draft, and then refine it with context aware suggestions that fit what you're working on. 90% of professionals say Grammarly has saved them time writing and editing their work. I like how this is AI that works with you. It doesn't work over you. It almost acts as like a co

[Joel]

laborer alongside you in a world of generic AI don't sound like everyone else. With Grammarly you never will. Download Grammarly for [e-mail] that's Grammarly.com Reggie I just sold my car online.

[Matt]

Let's go Grandpa.

[Joel]

Wait, you did? Yep, on Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame. You don't say. Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast. Wow. Way to go. So about that picture frame. Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

Car selling made easy on Carvana.

[Joel]

Pick up fees and anti all right,

[Matt]

buddy, we are back from the break. We're going to get to a question here in a minute about a listener who thinks that you've been a little too cheap. We'll get to that one here in a second, but first let's take a question on single stock investing.

[Kyle (Listener)]

Hey Matt and Joel, this is Kyle in Charlottesville, Virginia. I've been a listener for years, but I haven't ever felt like I had a question worth sending your way until now. Years ago, I purchased some Nvidia shares on a couple of different occasions. This was prior to the release of ChatGPT and the subsequent run up in Nvidia and other AI related stocks. Fast forward to today and that NVDA stock is worth a little over $800,000 and makes up a much bigger percentage of my brokerage account than it probably should from a tax standpoint. What would be the best way to reduce that position and rebalance the portfolio? If you find yourselves in central Virginia, give me a shout. We've got a few good breweries around and more than a few decent vineyards and wineries.

[Joel]

Thanks, Kyle. We'll go drinking with you next time we're in Virginia. Sounds like. Yeah, thank you. And the Vail, that's in Richmond, Virginia. Right. I don't know where it is. The Vail makes fantastic beers.

[Matt]

Good stuff.

[Joel]

And Kyle asked from a tax standpoint, and we will address the taxation part of this, but we have to address something even larger than that too, Matt. Like one just Kyle has done so well with, what do you call it, a small investment. Yeah, it's not so small anymore, which is a beautiful thing. And most of us see that happen in, you know, over a longer period of time. Right. Because we're in more just like straight up index funds. And so, yeah, you look up a decade later and you're like, well, that's pretty cool. But. And then two decades later, you're like, holy mackerel. That's like really, really cool. How much money I've been able to. To save in a mass. Well, for Kyle, it happened a whole lot quicker. He might have taken something like 30 grand and turned it into $800,000, which is a rare feat in investing. But if you look at. He said six years. If you look back at that timeline, that's probably about what he tossed in. And he was like, this is reasonable. I'll take this bet on this company that looks like it's going to change the face of the future of artificial intelligence and they're going to garner a lot of the spoils. Turns out Kyle's bet was well placed. He was right. But you are, yes, of course, very concentrated. In one single stock, what might have started off as less than 5% of your portfolio, it no longer is. So we need to talk not just about taxes, but how to de risk, given your shrewdness and good fortune, what you've been able to accomplish here, Kyle.

[Matt]

Yeah. No, so the numbers that you said, Joel, are pretty spot on. It would have taken about $30,000 to get what he's got now in Nvidia, that same $30,000, had you invested in the S and P, it would be worth like barely, like not even $70,000,

[Joel]

which is still pretty good. More than doubled in six years, which

[Matt]

is good, but not as good as. And I'm afraid that a lot of folks are going to hear us talking, taking this question. They're going to think, oh, my gosh, well, that's what I need to do. Well, no, More like Kyle. That's not what we're saying here. And I would like to think that maybe Kyle would say the same thing. But it's just easy to hear success stories like this and to feel that we should all be making bigger bets in order to secure the bag a bit more quickly. But individual stock picking is a very tough endeavor. Not only do you need to find an exceptional company, but then on top of that you need to that specific company. The stock price needs to be undervalued and it can just be hard on top of that to stomach some of the different dramatic price drops that you oftentimes will like. It's like Amazon multiple times back in the early 2000s as far as its ups and its downs. Is this book company, online book ordering company going to be able to continue to deliver?

[Joel]

It was really hard to predict, almost impossible to predict that Amazon in that era was going to be Amazon return

[Matt]

to what it is like.

[Joel]

If you had that foresight, maybe you were a genius or and if you had the conviction to hold on to that stock through some of those just skin crawling drawdowns, then you really deserve the fruit of the spoils you've reaped.

[Matt]

And oftentimes when, like when you're looking back in hindsight it looks like a slam dunk decision, but in the moment it just looks incredibly risky. Buying Nvidia buying certainly now, specifically, if we're talking about that company, most highly

[Joel]

valued company in the world, it's a

[Matt]

different ball of wax. And hopefully folks aren't thinking, oh, I need to get in on AI stocks. That's not what we're talking about here.

[Joel]

It's kind of like buying Pfizer and Moderna months after it was public that they had come up with the vaccine. Matt. And stock prices were wild for those companies. And now look, if you look what's happening, they've really dramatically declined, settle back down to earth. And not everyone agrees with us. By the way, that single stock should represent a max 5% of your overall portfolio. I think that deserves to be mentioned. So think about one of the friends of the show that we've had on before, Carl, Mr. 1500. He talked openly on that episode about how much Tesla stock he owns.

[Matt]

Yeah, he still does.

[Joel]

And he still does. He's like, man, he kind of says, like do as I say, not as I do is kind of, I think the way he thinks about it. So he would even mostly agree with us. But he's like, you know what? I have enough conviction about this company and I have plenty of money invested in index funds and I'm in this financial independence realm. So I can break these rules. This is a rule that most people should not break. But I can because I've got so many millions of dollars in index funds that I might not even ever need. So I can take outsized bets on Tesla just for funsies. Because. Because I think one, I'll do better and two, I've got a lot of faith in this company. That's what Carl would say, not me. Yeah. And I would not feel comfortable doing what Carl does or having close to a million dollars tied up in a single stock. But I just at least wanted to get that out of the way that not everyone thinks the same way we think on this. And there might be a reason that Kyle bought Nvidia stock and why he might want to continue holding onto it. And at the same time, it's also unlikely that you'll want to abandon all of your positions in this stock immediately.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel]

So.

[Matt]

So you talking about Carl having additional investments is. I think that's the, the true litmus. Like I'm not expecting Nvidia to be like Enron where it's going to go belly up. Right. For one, Tesla actually makes like a product video. I'm sorry. Yes. Yeah. Getting my companies mixed up. But I mean, same thing with Tesla, same thing with Nvidia as far as them actually producing a product. Actually, I forget what it was that Enron. Regardless, what I'm pointing here to is the fact that if you have a whole lot of other additional investments, which I think you do, because you've got this investment in your brokerage as opposed to your retirement accounts, if you have enough to retire on, I am more comfortable with you having a more outsized portion of your overall portfolio invested in single stocks. In particular, if you've got conviction, not unlike Carl with. When it comes to. When it comes to Tesla, to where if it went belly up, that it wouldn't break you. Like it would be.

[Joel]

It would hurt, right? Yeah.

[Matt]

But it wouldn't be like this mortal wound to your overall portfolio. Like that's how I think about crypto. Like my crypto holdings, I've got more crypto than I think the average person does. You know, I'll say. Than you do. We've talked about it. And if that were to completely evaporate, it would be a huge bummer and I would be sad. But it also wouldn't derail my ability to retire, to even retire early. And so I think that's a good rule of thumb and at least a good way to think about it when it comes to how much of that that you want to hold on to. But even still, it's a tricky question to determine, you know, what percentage of your overall portfolio you want to maintain in the single stock.

[Joel]

There's always an exception to the rule, right? I'm thinking like bases are loaded in baseball, Matt, and depends on which hitter comes up to the plate if they have a green light to swing at the first pitch or not. There's a lot of hitters in baseball and the coach is like I'll kill you if you swing at that first pitch, right? Because like I want you to get a walk or I at least want you to put pressure on the pitcher. But there are some batters that are just some hitters that are just so good. And you're like, you have the green light to swing whenever you want because you've just proven over a long period of time that you crush in situations like this like you, you hit 380 right with the bases loaded or something like that over the course of, of eight or nine years. Sorry for the.

[Matt]

Are these the Shohei's?

[Joel]

Shohei, okay. He's always got a green light, right? Always got a green light. There are very few people like that, but he does and that's, that's this. I think what you're getting at is if have enough money saved up in kind of traditional investments, even if you have an outsized position in something like Nvidia you, you can afford to do that if you've crushed it in these other elements of your, of your savings and investing. And so I think first thing to do is to figure out how much exposure is ideal for you as a percentage of your portfolio. 800k is a lot. But if you got 20 million in index funds, it's not outrageous. If you've got a million index funds or less, it starts to feel pretty outrageous. And so know what target you're shooting for in comparison to your other holdings. And then talking about taxes, well, sell gradually selling it all in one fell swoop would yes, trigger a big old tax bill pushing you from, to pay more in tax than you would like. From typically like a 15% capital gains tax rate to a 20% capital gains tax rate depending again on how long you've owned those stock positions. There's just no reason to create a self inflicted tax wound to remedy this overnight. You know, spread. Spreading your tax burden over multiple years is just going to be easier to stomach we'd recommend selling a fixed dollar amount quarterly, maybe just so that you're not timing or doing it in an emotional way. Maybe 2% of your portfolio of your Nvidia holdings every four months. So you're getting rid of 6% of it every, every year. And that way you are maybe doing that over the next seven or eight years, Matt, in order to really trim the size of those holdings, you're selling slowly but surely you're kind of not timing the market, your dollar cost averaging on the way down.

[Matt]

Yeah, I like that. I like coming up with the plans, literally writing it out. That way you have something to reference that helps you to. You're guiding yourself through this process. I think another option is to increase the contributions that you're making to index fund holdings in an attempt to essentially like bring things more in line with what you're shooting for. But that being said, like, given the extreme run up that you've seen and that you might continue to see, this might not even be possible to achieve. Right where you're trying to out contribute in your investments towards index funds as Nvidia might be continuing to outpace you. But something else worth considering as you are trying to minimize tax here is just donating the appreciated shares to a donor advised fund. This is something, Joel, that we've talked about doing this recently with Crypto. We've done this through Daffy, which is our favorite donor advised fund. But you can also do it with single stocks. I've done it with, with Vanguard ETFs as well. And so if you are keen to be generous and to give, this is a way to avoid big capital gains tax bills as well while simultaneously getting a tax benefit. And by the way, I think everyone should be, I was saying, like, if you are, you know, inclined to give, hopefully you are. And this is something we've talked about on the show in the past as well. Like we have dedicated entire episodes to being generous, to being a giver, to donating funds. Even if it's not like a set percentage, Joel, like you and I, our families take more of a set percentage minimum. And for some people, I think that might seem a bit strict and a bit rigid in the approach. I think even just shooting for like, like say 1,000 bucks for anybody out there that might be listening or like, okay, this year I want to donate $5,000. If off in the future you get more comfortable with that and you want to up it to a certain percentage. I think that that could be good too. But I think it just creates A great relationship to your money when it's not something that you're constantly trying to gain more. I don't want to say hoard, but like gain more and more of for the different goals that you have as opposed to looking outward to other organizations and to folks who might be able to do something really awesome with that money. Whereas for you, it would just provide sort of a more minimal increase and the utility that it's able to bring you.

[Joel]

Well, a lot of how to money listeners are incredibly generous. And when you think about just donating appreciated securities to your donor advised fund versus just cash that you're getting from your paycheck, it just, it's amazing how much of a different it'll make difference it'll make in. In reducing taxation. Oh yeah. And you're able to still accomplish exactly what you want to accomplish. It's one of. It's one of my favorite ways to give is because it's like this. It's like this triple whammy, essentially.

[Matt]

It's the only way I give now.

[Joel]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, okay, I'm avoid taxes. I'm able to be incredibly generous. And then on top of that, I'm giving to my donor advice fund where I can see at least a portion of that money grow that I'm not giving immediately to for future big giving that I want to do. And so donor advice funds, if, if you're into that, Kyle, is an awesome way to over time be donating some of the shares of Nvidia that you've accrued. I hope that helps. And man, congratulations. This is a good problem to have. And even if you end up paying more tax than you want, still, like that's a success tax because you've rocked it. All right, Matt, let's get to our next question. This one comes from listener Graham, who wants to call us onto the carpet for something.

[Graham (Listener)]

Hey, Matt and Joel. I have a question regarding a recent show intro. Joel was balking at the cost of iCloud's integrated photo backup. I get the aversion to subscription creep. I've been known to un cancel a streaming service for one show and then immediately set it to not renew, but I'd put this less in the consumption bucket and more in the technological hygiene bucket. Sure, you could manually sync to a computer, chase it with a couple of hard drives, and store them at separate physical locations for fault tolerance, but honestly, that's only worth it if you literally can't afford the monthly fee and happen to have spare drives lying around at some point, you've earned the right to pay $10 a month to not think about it. And iCloud plus has other benefits worth taking advantage of too. So, first question. Nick Magiulli's 0.01% of net worth threshold is a useful heuristic, but I think it lacks nuance. What's the figure as a percentage of monthly income or net worth where you just stop worrying about it? I'd argue you can spend more than $20 worth of mental energy on a $20 problem, and that nickel and diming yourself is serious diminishing returns. Curious where you draw that line. My second question A recent caller asked whether they should let a medical bill go to internal collections to score a bigger discount. I love a good discount, but if everyone did this, hospitals and doctors offices could take a real revenue hit, potentially affecting care quality or even forcing closures. Medical billing is a mess, but gaming pathways designed for people who generally can't pay feels like it could have unintended consequences. So my question when does it make sense to pay your fair share? When you have the means versus grinding it out for a maximum discount? Thanks again for all you do and looking forward to the next Atlanta area meetup. And I still owe you another possibly home brewed beer for the show.

[Matt]

Wait a minute. You said before we took this one that he's calling us both out. No, he's calling you out, my friend. This is specifically directed towards Joel.

[Joel]

This is not the first time I've been publicly derided as being cheap, Matt.

[Matt]

Well, maybe it was that one time when you were charging us for charcoal and we were grilling out at your house.

[Joel]

That wasn't even you.

[Matt]

Shut up.

[Joel]

Act like you were part of that.

[Matt]

Such a great story though. We'll get to that one some other time.

[Joel]

Some other time. Okay, so I think the tech hygiene note that he's striking here. That's probably a really good way to think about it. I hadn't really thought about it like that. I thought about it as I feel like that's how.

[Matt]

That was the point I was trying to make. Cause you're like, oh, I got photos here, I got some photos here. And I was just like, do you actually have those photos still though? Or have you lost any photos? Or when's the last time you.

[Joel]

I probably have lost.

[Matt]

When's the last time you've seen those?

[Joel]

Some of them, yeah.

[Matt]

Cause that's the part where for me, as I thought through it, I'm like, that's something I'm willing to like, dude. Pictures of Kate and I before we had kids, traveling, or even when we did have kids and the kids are young, like those. Man, those pictures are like priceless to me, you know, like, that's not something that I'm willing to, I guess, cut too many corners on. But.

[Joel]

And I get the. I get the point. And I think there's a lot of truth to that. I should probably be less cheap on this. And when it comes down to it, is it going to break the bank? No. No, it's not. And I think Graham points too, to the highlight. He highlights the wasted mental energy, which is a real thing. Right. And the more I kind of debate this and try to save $5 a month because I'm trying to jump through all these hoops in order to keep my pictures in a way that's less accessible. You're right. It's five bucks. Like, I should probably just get over it.

[Matt]

A picture like a squirrel burying acorns in the backyard. You get pictures all over the Internet, Joel.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Like, do you even know where they are anymore?

[Joel]

Oh, I guess it's true. I think the more progress you make with your finances. He's also right. The less time you should probably spend on trivial financial decisions like 10 or 20 bucks. It probably shouldn't be as much of a gut wrenching decision as it feels to me. Sometimes I should get over that. But also, old habits die hard, Matt. And so it's something I have to consciously work on. I guess part of my hang up too is that I also see frugality as a virtue. And so I'm more inclined to lean in that direction even if it's not a financial necessity. Because I think that it's doing more in like my character formation than just being like, oh, great, 10 bucks here, 10 bucks there.

[Matt]

Yeah. Because that's a slippery slope.

[Joel]

It can be. It feels ridiculous to say, but I guess I do think of frugality along those lines.

[Matt]

Well, so it's interesting because he mentioned. Gray, mentioned Nick Magi's point. So it's a 0.01% of your net worth sort of heuristic, which just to explain it quickly, essentially, if you are facing an expense in your. In your life and you basically, you multiply your net worth by.01%. And if it is an expense that is less than that, you don't even think about it. You just click to buy. You order. You know, you order the upgraded or you get the concert tickets, or you go ahead and order the takeout or whatever it is. And I Totally. And Graham is pointing this out too. He's saying that, like, it lacks some nuance.

[Joel]

It does.

[Matt]

And I totally agree. Because it can be very easy to quickly get used to that.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Like, how many times a day are you going to do that? And granted, Nick even acknowledges that this isn't something you do on a daily basis, but that's where it's a slippery slope.

[Joel]

Right?

[Matt]

Like, you say yes to this without really thinking about it because you've just crunched the numbers, you've entered the number into the formula. Does it pass? Green light, go. Okay, red light. Oh, bummer. I guess I won't do it. But it's just really easy to not think about that, to be parted with your dollars and to not wrestle with how much value are you actually getting out of that purchase. And I will say you questioning it in your mind is a good practice from am I getting value out of this? Because in that process, I don't think it's good to obsess over it if you're just constantly going back to it. And it's like sucking all the joy out of any photos that anything that you would have gotten out of looking, even looking at these photos, well, it's like self defeating. But if it allows you to refine what it is that you're willing to spend money on, that I think is totally, is totally worth it. And that's honestly where Nick Magiulli, friend of the show, I guess his latest book was the Wealth Ladder, you talked with him, but we've had him on multiple times on the show. But that's where it lacks a little bit of nuance because he's making it more formulaic as opposed to knowing like you. It's a personal question as to whether or not this is something that you appreciate or not. And there's no clear cut answer to that other than thinking about it a little bit and wrestling whether or not this is something that you value.

[Joel]

And if you make fewer dumb twenty dollar decisions, you can make more awesome $500 decisions. Yeah, you know, like, I guess that's something that Graham's pointing out that I think we both agree with. That is, I appreciate the way Nick Maggiuli thought through that and trying to kind of create a framework to see your purchases through based on your net worth. And in some cases there are people who are overly frugal who have a hard time making that splurge. But to me, that's what the craft beer equivalent is all about. It's like, see it through. That framework and put unreasonable amounts of money towards those few line items that you care a ton about. Like, for me lately, it is going to more shows with my family and with my friends. And so, yeah, I don't know how much money I'm going to spend on concert tickets this year, but it's the last couple of years, it's definitely. It's increased quite a bit.

[Matt]

You see that increase, and it is

[Joel]

like moving the needle, man. It's making me happy. It's kind of. To me, it's like a. It's like a miniature version of a trip because I just have this. It has. It pays those memory dividends. And there's a lot of excitement in the buildup as well.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

But so I guess the filter I'd put this through is like, am I being generous toward my future self, and does this purchase align with my values, or am I being frugal just because I'm feeling anxious? So instead of like a percentage of your net worth, I think those are helpful questions to ask when you're trying

[Matt]

to figure out which are more value based as opposed to kind of just. Yeah, sticking the number into the machine, pulling the lever, and having it spit out an answer. 100.

[Ron (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And I think that's what Graham was getting.

[Joel]

All right, should we talk about the medical bill question? Because we got some pushback in the Facebook group on that too. There's folks who was like, I mostly agree with Matt and Joel, but, gosh, I don't think I agreed with them on this one.

[Matt]

Okay, so I'm gonna boil this down to the fact that you may not love that that's how it's set up, but them's the rules. Right. Like, it makes me think of, like, different tax incentives and different hoops that you can jump through to avoid tax. And I think some folks would say, well, that's not how we should be doing it. Like, if you want to be able to have nice things in your city, if you want the government to be able to provide great benefits for people, you pay your fair share in tax. But on one end, you have like a blind, I will pay whatever you say that I owe you. And then on the other end, obviously, I guess you can be criminal and illegally evade taxes that you owe. And in this case, you've got a bill. And if there is a structure that exists for anybody, and like, we're not saying to do something illegal, to lie to whoever it is that you are trying to negotiate with, but within the framework that is presented, I am, dude. I Mean, if there is an outlet for you to explore and to legally receive assistance or a discount, then that's something that you take it honestly. It makes me think about credit card benefits, right? What if, because someone could say the exact same thing, oh, if everybody paid off their credit card on time, in full to where they didn't carry a balance, well, goodness, they would have to charge a higher interest rate or they wouldn't offer the cash back rewards, or they wouldn't have the sweeter signup bonuses. I'm fine with that. But as long as the benefits are there, it's something that we want folks, we want folks to handle their credit cards properly and responsibly. And if that means that the banks at some point modify the rules and refine the process that they allow people to go through in order to receive those benefits, I'm fine with that. At which point we will then adapt, right? So in a similar way with the hospitals, if the hospitals then say, oh, okay, we're going to have to be a little more specific with who we're allowing to negotiate their bills. I'm totally for that. But until they do, I want anybody that owes the hospital system, which is a pretty broken system, to be able to pay a little bit less if that's something they're entitled to.

[Joel]

It makes you think for some reason of people who have achieved fire and let's say you're 45, you're completely financially independent, you're not making any money anymore. Guess what? You have the ability to get extremely subsidized health care via, via healthcare.gov, there are a lot of colleges now, right, who have said if you make under this amount of money, you can send your kid to college for free. Those are incredible perks, right? And this person who has $5 million, let's say, of net worth, they don't need those perks. Would you take advantage of them? But they're still available there for you, right? And so it's a really. I get kind of the moral conundrum of something like that.

[Matt]

It feels weird. Yeah, it feels a little weird.

[Joel]

But when the person on the phone tells you, hey, you might just want to let this go to internal collections because offer you a better deal and you can pay less because of that. That is part of the way the broken system works. And so do I love it, the way the incentives are set up? Do I love the way this, the whole kabuki theater of financial medical billing happens? No, it's, it's not my favorite. And yeah, we talk about a bunch of things on the medical billing front, how egregious medical bills are, how rife with errors they are, the insane markups in price. There's a lot of things that are stacked against the consumer on the medical bill front. And I just think it feels like

[Matt]

a real small win for the consumer in the small way when there is so much stacked up, stacked against you.

[Joel]

It feels like just got done reading Jurassic park. Like you're, you're let loose in the park. All you got is one of those electric motorcycles and the eight pack of Velociraptors are after you. That's what it feels like when you're dealing with a medical bill. And so it's, it's almost like a no holds barred situation. Aside from like not paying your debt and moving to another country and like changing your name or something like that to try to avoid paying. Like if you owe the debt, you should do whatever you can to get to reduce that bill amount and then you should pay what you owe.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. At the end of the day, if that's what you still owe, yeah, you pay the bill. But again, whatever the rules, like, so you meant you mentioning essentially someone who's financially independent. It makes me think about, we're talking about capital gains a second ago, but basically, like if you have an income of less than $100,000, you're roughly. These are round numbers. Like you're paying 0% sure. In capital gains. And so you could have somebody who is quite wealthy and who has front loaded the sacrifice and worked really hard in their younger years stashed. A lot of these are dollars that they haven't spent and that they haven't consumed. They were thinking about far off future version of themselves and they've got money in the bank. And so if they have the ability to live off of less than $90,000 and they're paying zero taxes, would you

[Joel]

say that that's fair?

[Matt]

Because on one hand it's like, well, they've got so much money they should be paying taxes. But that's just, that's how the system is.

[Joel]

Like Peter Thiel's Roth ira. There was a lot of hand wringing about that. Most of us probably wish we had done what Peter did in our early, early years. Although that was like a maneuver.

[Matt]

I don't know all the ins and outs of that particular deal. So I know there might. Yeah, that one might be.

[Joel]

There actually might be some, like there

[Matt]

might be some sketchiness. Yeah, but they're on that one specifically, I guess.

[Joel]

Like, I also get that people are gonna have different, different takes right on. On how this should function.

[Matt]

I'm fine with that.

[Joel]

And, and that's okay. Like, we do our I've done our best to try to offer an explanation of of why we think that's allowing that bill to go to collections in hopes of a bigger discount. Makes sense, but we also understand if you disagree totally. All right, man, we got more to get to. We got a couple more questions, including one about comparing insurance coverage, auto insurance coverage in particular. There's actually an easy way that can probably help you save a lot of money. We'll talk about that in just a sec, Man. We've hired some great folks to work behind the scenes with us at how to Money over the Years. If you're a small business, you know this. The right hire can make or break things for you. Hoping the right people see your job. Posting is not the best growth strategy. So when the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs.

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

it's time for the third section of the ask. Never brought it back that way.

[Joel]

Joel. New start.

[Matt]

I like it. You like that? Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna stick with it. Facebook question of the week is what we're getting to now. This is from Brendan. He wrote, is there a way to have an agent compare auto insurance coverage to find the best coverage price? I feel like the guys have talked about a way to have a human pulling the quotes with a goal to find the best option for you, not the one that makes them the most commission. Yes, we have talked about that, man.

[Joel]

And is there any segment of of consumer dom where you see more ads for than insurance companies? Ooh, it feels like. Like when I'm thinking about the mascots, I'm thinking Jake from State Farm. I'm thinking about that emu from Liberty Mutual.

[Matt]

You know, I mean, like, guy with the mustache. I'm surprised that your mind didn't immediately go to the mustache guy with aviators.

[Joel]

Well, his is much superior to mine.

[Matt]

I don't know about that. Just because his is darker doesn't mean that the Larry Bird, the nice scarecrow, you know, lawn stash and holding it down.

[Joel]

But it's this thing that leads us to believe Geico the Lizard, right? It's like 15 minutes will save you 15%. And everyone knows that line by heart. Now, the Mayhem guy. Yes, him too.

[Matt]

Who originally played.

[Joel]

Was he on Friends or something?

[Matt]

No, he really played Leslie. Was it Leslie Knope or nose on 30 Rock? Tina Fey's boyfriend, I think in 30 Rock. And it was essentially the same character, just a complete mess. It's complete.

[Joel]

He's done well for himself.

[Matt]

Total mayhem.

[Joel]

Yes. So I can't really think of mascots or I guess like the cell phone. Big cell phone companies advertise a lot too, but man, these commercials are all over the place. They're trying to get you to shop

[Matt]

specifically on their site, as evidenced by our ability to recall all these mask guys.

[Joel]

As someone who watches crazy, very little tv.

[Matt]

That's nuts.

[Joel]

Still, I can recall all those guys. But like, for. In their attempt to get you to shop on their site, it's not about getting you the best rate. It's about getting you in their silo. Which is why instead of like plugging in your information on each of their platforms independently, we're all about hitting up an independent agent who can shop with a bunch of providers at once, saving you annoyance and stress. And they can quote a handful of policies at one fell swoop. They can also help ensure that you're that you have the proper insurance coverage and it's not going to cost more either. So, Matt, despite all those commercials trying to sell you on particular companies, I ain't buying it. Their benefits. Hiring Ludacris, right, To pop up in random funny situations, the best option is to go with something that almost nobody knows about.

[Matt]

That's right, yeah. Although there are some insurance companies that don't work with independent agents. So you might want to hit up their sites directly in order to, you know, get a good quote. But check with a site like TrustedChoice, because those are typically the independent agents that are going to aggregate multiple different policies. And you'll also typically be able to get homeowners quotes there too. Auto and home insurance Insurance providers are one of those sectors where loyalty just gets punished, especially in today's insurance environment. Although is that we're finally starting to see insurance rates taper off a little bit, definitely. But yeah, savings of like anywhere between 10 and 30%, like that is fairly typical if you're willing to go through the process. It's just one of the few areas where you can easily save money without accepting an inferior product as well. Right. Like in a lot of cases it's like, but yeah, I know I could save 30% but I got to go to Aldi then and I got to show. No, you don't even have to do that. Like you are getting a lot of times the same coverage. You're just hopping with a new provider.

[Joel]

Also, I got to go from the 500 meg Internet service down to the 100 meg.

[Matt]

Right?

[Joel]

My uploads are going to go, hey, no, no.

[Matt]

Also 100 meg's totally fine. It's only once you get down to like 20 or 30, like that's when you're going to start to notice it. For most people it's more about router placement in their home as opposed to like having to bump from 100 to, to 500.

[Joel]

That's true. I got a couple of those old school eero routers. Like they, they've made a big difference. Yeah.

[Matt]

As we chase our WI fi Internet provider Tangent. But also totally worth mentioning, shout out to our friends over at Policy Genius. That's what they do. They are an insurance marketplace. So find more.

[Joel]

Not just for, for term life, which is a great place to go. Right. But also for, they can help you with shopping insurance as well like car and home. All right, Matt, we got an email from Tony. He says my son is 25 years old, he's a computer science major and he just opened his first $5,000 CD. Can you recommend a book about finances for him to read or for me to gift to him for his upcoming birthday?

[Matt]

Oh, I don't think I got this email.

[Joel]

Oh, well, was this an email to you? I don't know, maybe. I thought it was. But big first, happy birthday to your son. And actually I sent a couple books. We have a lot of books. We get so many books over here. So I sent him a couple of my favorite. But I figured we should take this one.

[Matt]

Oh, and he's 25 years old, so you can, you can rent, rent a car now.

[Joel]

Oh, that is the big milestone. That is like the last final milestone of adulthood is being able to rent a car. Yeah, it's pretty cool. It did feel like in your early 20s when you're going places, that was the biggest pain. Right. That you're like, I can get a hotel, I can, I can do anything I want. I just can't rent a car.

[Matt]

Rent a car.

[Joel]

I wonder if that's less of a

[Matt]

problem now with rideshare as well with like probably lift and all that. But still, Tony, if you are wanting to get your son into investing. Right. Like, so let's, let's raise the bar a little bit. You're talking about a cd, that's great. But investing. With that in mind, I would recommend the simple path to wealth. J.L. collins, man, he's like the godfather of personal finance. DIY individuals to get their dollars invested.

[Joel]

We've had him on the show a while back.

[Matt]

It's a long time ago. But that's going to help your son to understand the necessity to invest as well and how impactful that's going to be on his wealth building journey. Super down to earth way. Doesn't overcomplicate things. Yeah, that's a Great book. Great book for all the folks out there who are looking to kind of. It's like a nice investing primer.

[Joel]

And to be honest, like, you can keep diving deeper and going further, but if you stopped there, you would be just fine. Yeah, you just fine. He would be just fine. And he's 25. And we want your son, ideally to learn about the benefits of compounding returns. He said he's got money in a cd, which is great, but like, man, we want him not just to save that save money, but to grow money for his future. And he's at the perfect age to really learn and implement some of those smart investing practices. And I think you're right, Matt. That's a great book recommendation. Andy Hill, recent guest, has a book called Own youn time.

[Matt]

The time one? Yeah, that's more like. That's like 2.0 or that's like a

[Joel]

2000 level college course, I think also, though, what, what makes it cool to read that early on to think about

[Matt]

is

[Joel]

it'll change your mind about what money can do. The fact that money can buy you independence over a long period of time, that's where it can get you. It's that combo of simple path to wealth and then being like, oh, wait A second, after 15 years of doing that, I'll be a lot closer to financial independence. What can I do when I've got tons of peace out money and a lot of money savvy, man. Like, the world is my oyster. And so I think that's probably another good book that's worth reading. And I don't just. The other thing I would encourage, Tony, is how does your son like to learn? Like, maybe an audiobook would be better if he's like, like me. That's how I read. And so just, I just want to highlight that because you want the information to have an impact. You just. You don't want to give him a book that's going to sit on the shelf and gather dust.

[Matt]

That's totally true. Or maybe even hearing his father referenced in a podcast might be how it is that Tony sun gets to learn.

[Joel]

Send him this episode.

[Matt]

Yeah. But it is time for us to get back to the Beer Joel that you and I enjoyed today, which was a delirium tremens. Like you said, it's got the pink elephant, which always makes me think of Dumbo.

[Joel]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt]

Does it really?

[Joel]

Oh, yeah. Of the dream scene.

[Matt]

Yes. Dude, that freaked me out. When I was a little kid, I just remember thinking, I don't know what this is. About. But I don't like it. It just felt too unhinged, out of control. I remember being scared as, like. Oh, I don't know, like a little kindergarten.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Watching that for the first time. Oh, I love it, though, because now it's great.

[Joel]

Chunky in the best way. They don't make stuff like that anymore.

[Matt]

Probably because of all the nightmares that.

[Joel]

Well, no, I was gonna say Millennials had, but probably a lot of the Disney animators at that point in time were on shrooms or something, right?

[Matt]

Yeah. They're still on drugs, but they're different. Portraying it less in their work.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

Animated movies for kids. Yeah.

[Joel]

Yeah, I guess so. Well, okay, so it's got the cute can with the pink elephant. It's a solid beer.

[Matt]

No, it's so good.

[Joel]

It's just not my favorite style.

[Matt]

Oh, Belgians.

[Joel]

Yeah. Some Belgian styles are my absolute favorite. I love quads. I love some of those Belgian sours. This kind of. What is this, like a.

[Matt]

What is it technically considered? I'll look it up while you're kind

[Joel]

of like a triple or whatever. Like, it's got a lot of coriander, and Is that coriander that I'm tasting? Whatever it is, I think coriander is just not my favorite flavor. And it doesn't mean I hate this beer. It's just like, oh, gosh, too much. The first couple sips, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is nice, and it's different. And then by the end, I'm like, oh, too. A little too much of one thing.

[Matt]

Well, I will say there's a good amount of sweetness going on. So as the Belgians go, I guess that's kind of typical across all of them, because. So you mentioned coriander. Like, that's. So that's typically triples or tripels, whatever, that kind of have more of those. More of those notes. Okay. So I just looked it up. It says that it's not. It says the Belgian strong golden ale.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

So I'm not totally sure if that points it in a certain direction or not, but I don't know. It's just got those classic Belgian flavors. Like, you've got the beautiful golden color as you're pouring it, but then those Belgian yeasts that I don't know are unmistakably Belgian that you're going to get when it comes to any Belgian beer, whether you're looking at a Allagash white all the way up to, like, some massive quad, it's going to have a similar profile. Just. Just a Different style of particular beer.

[Joel]

My kids were randomly asking me the other day about my best beer experience. That's a great question. It was being in Belgium, going to Cantillon at the source. Those. To me, that style of Belgian beer is the absolute best, and nobody does it better than Cantillon.

[Matt]

So the spontaneously fermented Belgian beers, the ones that had the funk years to make, they had the terroir, the dust from the rafters in the same place where the.

[Joel]

What's it called? The cool ship.

[Matt]

Yeah, you know, where it's just this open vat collecting.

[Joel]

You have to go someday because it's a museum and a brewery simultaneously.

[Matt]

100%.

[Joel]

That's incredible.

[Matt]

I would not be surprised if Kate wants to go with me, but if not, let's make it happen, bros. Trip. Some sort of, like, European. We'll go hiking slash running across.

[Joel]

I want to visit the monasteries.

[Matt]

Oh, yeah. We can hit up northern Italy. So on the border, so near Belgium, it's the Dolomites. I've been there before. And you can stay in these different huts and you can, like, backpack, or in our case, if we want to do some trail running, we can go from, like, hut to hut. I've heard somebody, for somebody talk about this. It's not like it's super fancy or anything. It makes it sound very exotic, but evidently there's a decent amount of roughing it. But the combination of that plus some classic Belgian breweries, Sign me up.

[Joel]

Maybe we'll get to run the UTMB together one of these days.

[Matt]

So what is that?

[Joel]

Just 100 miles through the Dolomites? No worries. Yeah, you'll be fine.

[Matt]

It's actually in the Dolomites, I think,

[Joel]

so it's right there in that, like, France, Italy, Switzerland area. So, yeah, I don't even think I can play.

[Matt]

No big deal. I just got a scale of Mont Blanc.

[Joel]

Right. You really go over Mount Blanc?

[Matt]

Yes.

[Joel]

It's insane.

[Matt]

Oh, my gosh.

[Joel]

All right, that's going to do it. For this episode. We'll put links in the show notes to some of the resources that we mentioned, and there's always new stuff going up on our [e-mail] Please do. Check it out, Matt. Until next time. Best friends out.

[Matt]

Best friends.

[Joel]

Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person?

[Boys and Girls Podcast Host]

Welcome to the Boys and Girls podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show, and you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition, hoping to find love the right way. And instead I found chaos, comedy, and a lot of cringe. Listen to boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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When you feel uncomfortable. What do you put on Biggie?

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They had to crush him.

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