Ask HTM - Mag-7-Nondiversification-Risk, Cutting Up 13 Credit Cards, & Best Tax Refund Opportunities #1117

Summary

How to Money – Episode #1117:
Ask HTM - Mag-7-Nondiversification-Risk, Cutting Up 13 Credit Cards, & Best Tax Refund Opportunities
Date: March 23, 2026
Hosts: Joel & Matt

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Episode Overview

In this lively Ask HTM episode, best friends Joel and Matt answer listener-submitted questions centered on diversification risks in the S&P 500 (the “Mag 7”), the danger of closing credit cards after paying off debt, employer healthcare plans (HSA vs. PPO), frugal life hacks, and the smartest ways to use a tax refund. The conversation blends practical financial advice with personal anecdotes, humor, and the duo’s trademark conversational style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Diversification in the S&P 500 and International Exposure

(Listener Question from Jordan – 10:22)

Main Concerns:

• With the S&P 500 heavily weighted towards the “Magnificent 7” (Mag 7) tech giants, is true diversification at risk?
• Should average investors increase international stock exposure? Are there “set it and forget it” funds with the right global balance?

Hosts’ Analysis:

• Non-Diversification in S&P 500:

  • About a third of the S&P 500’s total value is concentrated in just seven companies.
  • Larger companies tend to be safer, but this concentration still opens the portfolio to unique risks.
  • “It opens up a Pandora's box of questions. And we understand the reaction. And that level of concentration—it's not my favorite.” — Joel (12:05)

• Equal-Weighted S&P 500 (EW S&P 500):

  • Pros: Reduces overexposure to giants like Nvidia.
  • Cons: Higher expense ratios (e.g., Invesco’s fund), more volatility, and potential to underperform.
  • “I hate this approach... You want to have your cake and eat it too... ignoring capitalization is like ignoring measurements in a recipe.” — Matt (14:54)

• International Funds as Diversifiers:

  • International returns lagged US for most recent decade but outperformed in some past decades.
  • Adding international funds is a more justified approach to risk management than going equal-weight.
  • “Diversification is so often about reducing downside risk, not about scoring the biggest returns humanly possible.” — Joel (17:55)

• Recommended Funds:

  • Vanguard VXUS: Non-US stocks—broad international exposure.
  • Vanguard VT: Global exposure (approx. 2/3 US, 1/3 international).
  • Costs are low (0.05–0.06%).

• Best Practice:

  • Shift gradually using new investment contributions, rather than selling everything at once (to avoid tax consequences and emotional decisions).
  • “Just like quick, dramatic changes to your investing plan, they're typically a bad idea...” — Joel (22:29)

Key Quotes:

• “If Nvidia gets cut in half, well, that's going to hurt my S&P 500 index fund that I'm invested in.” — Joel (12:05)
• “It's best to change future investment purchases in an effort to rebalance over time.” — Joel (21:35)

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2. Frugal or Cheap? Used Boxer Briefs & Beer for Labor

(Frugal/Cheap Segment – 05:47, 26:59)

• Used Boxer Briefs:

  • Matt offers Joel his barely worn Kirkland boxer briefs—“used gift”—as a frugal gesture.
  • Joel accepts, drawing the line at thrift-store underwear but okay with a close friend's gently used items.
  • “This takes our friendship to a new level, by the way.” — Joel (07:10)

• Working at a Brewery for Free Beer:

  • Listener Daniel works part-time at a local brewery for free beers. Co-workers call him “cheap.”
  • Both hosts declare this frugal (not cheap) since Daniel enjoys the experience and it’s main benefit is fun/social connection.
  • “If you were like, ‘I’m doing this thing I hate to get free beer’…don’t do that. But this sounds way more fun.” — Joel (30:20)

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3. HSA vs. PPO: Which Employer Healthcare Plan Is Best?

(Listener Daniel’s Question – 28:48)

• Scenario:

  • Daniel can now choose a PPO plan (employer covers full premium, worth $2,000 more/month to the company) or stick with a high-deductible health plan (HDHP) and get $200/mo in free HSA contributions.
  • He has a young, healthy family.

• HTM Advice:

  • If you have high expected medical expenses or upcoming major health events, the PPO may be worth losing HSA access.
  • For younger, healthy families, the math may favor staying on the HDHP with HSA—especially with $2,400/year employer contributions and added long-term tax benefits.
  • “Your HSA—access... is worth more than $2,400 [a year] because of tax-free compounding.” — Joel (34:09)
  • Review your family’s past medical expenses to make an informed, personalized decision.
  • This doesn’t have to be static; reconsider each year or batch medical procedures for “PPO years” as needed.

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4. Credit Cards: Paying Down Debt & Closing Accounts

(Listener Brian – 38:22)

• Question:

  • Brian and his wife have $38,000 in debt across 13 cards. Once paid off, should they close cards or keep them to help utilization and credit score?

• Advice:

  • Focus first on paying the debt down (using snowball—smallest balances for motivation—or avalanche—highest rates).
  • Not necessary to close paid-off cards immediately. Keeping them open (unused) is better for your utilization ratio and credit score.
  • “Keeping that card open for a while, even as you're not using it, can be wise.” — Joel (41:55)
  • Close some if the temptation to backslide is too high: “If you’re prone to backsliding…it’s something to be nervous about.” — Joel (43:08)
  • Eventually aim to simplify and just use a couple “plain-Jane” cash-back cards.

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5. Maximizing a Tax Refund: Medical Debt or Credit Cards?

(Facebook Group Question – 54:40)

• Scenario:

  • Poster has a $2000 tax refund, can pay off $2k in 0%-interest medical debt ($200/mo payments), or two credit cards (high interest), freeing $90/mo.

• HTM Advice:

  • Prioritize high-interest credit cards to avoid ongoing interest costs—paying only minimums on them is detrimental.
  • You can keep paying the 0%-interest medical debt on schedule.
  • “We want to see you out of credit card debt completely as soon as possible.” — Joel (56:22)
  • Use freed-up cash flow to build an emergency fund and eventually eliminate all debts.

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6. Affordable Cell Phone and Internet Service

(Facebook Question of the Week – 50:58)

• Highlights:
  • US Mobile is now a top budget pick, often outshining Mint Mobile on price and features.
  • US Mobile’s 5G home internet is coming soon.
  • For rural areas, Starlink and similar new options are improving service choices.
  • Reminder: Don’t hesitate to negotiate with current providers—retention departments can often reverse price hikes.

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7. Notable Moments & Quotes

• On S&P recipe analogy:
  “It’s like making cookies but ignoring all the measurements: a cup of flour, a cup of salt, a cup of chocolate chips…guess what, I doubt that’s going to turn out very well.” – Matt (15:46)
• On emotional investing shifts:
  “Quick, dramatic changes to your investing plan are almost always a bad idea—the rudder should be moved in small ways.” – Joel (21:35)
• On spending and debt:
  “The biggest goal is to get rid of this credit card debt as quickly as possible, which means you get to decide whether you want the snowball or avalanche approach.” – Matt (39:20)
• On frugal/cheap distinction:
  “If you’re doing something just to save money, but you hate it, don’t do it! But if it’s fun—why not?” – Joel (30:20)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 02:29 — Episode intro; ticket stories
• 05:47 — Frugal or Cheap: Used underwear debate
• 10:22 — Diversification, S&P Mag 7, International allocation
• 26:59 — Frugal or Cheap: Working for beer at a brewery
• 28:48 — Listener Daniel: HSA vs. PPO decision
• 38:22 — Listener Brian: Credit card debt payoff & closure
• 50:58 — Affordable cell phone and internet options
• 54:40 — Facebook Q: Best use of tax refund (medical vs. credit card debt)
• 58:19 — Beer review: Toppling Goliath "Fire Skulls and Money"

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Memorable Quotes

“This takes our friendship to a new level, by the way.”
— Joel on accepting Matt’s used boxers (07:10)

“It’s best to change future investment purchases in an effort to rebalance over time.”
— Joel (21:35)

“We want to see you out of credit card debt completely as soon as possible.”
— Joel (56:22)

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Conclusion

This episode of How to Money is packed with actionable personal finance wisdom, relatable life stories, and a few laughs at the hosts' expense. Whether you’re worried about market concentration in your index fund, debating how to handle your credit cards, choosing a health plan, or just trying to be frugal without being “cheap,” Joel and Matt deliver the straight talk (and humor) fans expect.

For links to all resources, visit howtomoney.com.

Transcript

[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

changing pursuit and my trip to Australia was one of the best investments I've ever made. I got to enjoy the bustling metropolis of Melbourne and some of the best coffee of my life while also driving the great ocean road and taking in spectacular views. I even hopped on a plane to the island of Tasmania. That was my favorite stop. I loved it all. A trip to Australia doesn't just offer a getaway, it's an investment in experiences that stay with you. Explore more destinations in Australia and start planning your memorable [e-mail] welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I'm Matt.

[Joel]

Today we're answering your listener questions.

[Matt]

That's right. Happy Monday to everyone. El out there and I hope you are buckled up for fresh ask out of Money, where we're gonna hear directly from listeners. One listener, Joel, is.

[Joel]

I'll tell you, by the way, I got a. I got a ticket.

[Matt]

I thought you were gonna say something. A ticket.

[Joel]

You're not wearing my seatbelt. The other day.

[Matt]

Did you really?

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Oh, you didn't share that?

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Oh, you didn't tell me that.

[Joel]

It's only 15, fortunately. But there was like a multiple dollar. And I feel really. I felt really bad. My kids were in the car.

[Matt]

Oh, snap.

[Joel]

Sorry. Continue.

[Matt]

Speaking of buckled up. You were not buckled up.

[Joel]

I was not buckled up.

[Matt]

15 bucks. That feels like. Is it 2002?

[Joel]

Slap on the wrist.

[Matt]

That feels like what they were charging. Back when I was in school. Like in Athens, there is a cop would. That would post up at this one four way stop. And even still, I don't know, dumb college students, they would just. They would see him and just kind

[Joel]

of still roll through the intersection.

[Matt]

And you would get them like person after person for not coming to a full and complete stop.

[Joel]

You would think it would cost more for this.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Because like, speeding tickets have gone way up in price.

[Matt]

Ticket or ticket.

[Joel]

And we've talked about how, like, if you. If you drive past the stop sign that's on the school bus.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

That's like $1,000 where we live. Yeah.

[Matt]

So we're like 250 or 5. I can't remember.

[Joel]

Oh, I thought it was a thousand.

[Matt]

No, it's not that much. Maybe it's a lot. It's a lot because Kate's done it multiple times.

[Joel]

Oh, gosh. See, we all make mistakes.

[Matt]

I've thrown her under the bus. Pun intended. We've talked about this on the show, but in her defense, it was on the other side of the road and the bus, it had like pulled off into this turn off into an apartment complex, and she didn't realize that.

[Joel]

Oh, okay.

[Matt]

And. And on the. On her side of the road, it's just woods. And so there is no kid crossing from the woods through traffic, you know, Anyway, that was her making her case.

[Joel]

Yeah. There's nothing more.

[Matt]

Now she understands.

[Joel]

More humbling, though, than making a big mistake like that. That's with the. With the lights blur and the police officer walks up to your window and the kids are in the car.

[Matt]

All three of them were with you.

[Joel]

Just two of them. But they hold it over.

[Matt]

You don't tell your sister, your brother, but it's good.

[Joel]

We need a. I need to be humbled every now and Again, look, remember

[Matt]

to do the right thing, to be reminded. Yeah. So the bigger question then is, what is that going to do to your. Your auto?

[Joel]

I think that doesn't.

[Matt]

It's not a moving violation.

[Joel]

It's not a moving violation.

[Matt]

Because of that, it doesn't count towards the number of points.

[Joel]

I have not seen it impact it yet.

[Matt]

So I don't think is crossed.

[Joel]

I don't think that goes on your Clue report, which, by the way, you don't know what the Clue report is. We've talked about it for. On the show.

[Matt]

Look at us launching right into all of the different things. Don't speed, people. Come to a full and complete stop. Do not speed. Certainly buckle up.

[Joel]

15 bucks at least. Felt was. I was like, oh, gosh. All right, that's not that bad.

[Matt]

All right, let me give. I was going to give a little pre. That's all right. I appreciate you sharing that. But we're going to talk about international investing, right? Like someone's looking about. Talking about taking it to the next level. Another listener. He's got 13 credit cards in his wallet, which is one thing, but it's a whole nother thing to carry a balance. Don't love that.

[Joel]

Can also, like, hurt your butt if you're sitting on it and driving for long distances.

[Matt]

Got to double up if it's that thick. Just go and get two wallets. Two wallets, one in each side. But. And then we'll talk about tax refund strategies that. More tax during our episode today. But, dude, I am actually super excited for this.

[Joel]

Frugal or cheap? I'll bring it.

[Matt]

I don't know if you noticed. What I wrote down here was, surprise.

[Joel]

Frugal or cheap? I'm ready to be wowed.

[Matt]

Here we go. Joel, will you accept used boxer briefs? And I'm gonna reach over here into my bag. Oh, wow. Let's see right here.

[Joel]

And this is about as theatrical as our podcast gets.

[Matt]

So, as you'll see, these are the exact boxer briefs that you wear. And I know this because you, Quasi, talked me into getting these. They are not only the exact brand, they're your exact size. These are medium Kirkland signature boxer briefs. And they have been worn because I tried them out, and they are. Boxer briefs just aren't my thing.

[Joel]

You're just a briefs guy.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, I like briefs. And, well, the sizing on this, it's, like, a little bit too big. You're like an inch or so up on me on the waist, and so they just feel a little bit loose. It's warming up, so the temperatures. I don't need the extra fabric. And the alternative bud is I'm just gonna throw these away. And this is a $20 value right here. 18.99 there at Costco.

[Joel]

How many times did you wear them?

[Matt]

Like, once or twice. Maybe twice.

[Joel]

And you know how I will accept this gift?

[Matt]

You will accept.

[Joel]

I will accept this gift.

[Matt]

All right, you heard that here, folks. Joel is accepting free underwear.

[Joel]

This takes our friendship to a new level, by the way.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Joel]

I think you've only worn them once or twice. They're washed, right?

[Matt]

100%.

[Joel]

And this is very different than buying them at the thrift store. I think, like, when I see that bin at the thrift store, I'm like, who buys your underwear here? Sorry. That's the one thing I will not buy used. But I will accept an incredibly gently used gift of underwear, I guess, from someone I know.

[Matt]

Here, take. Take a look. It's a four pack, you know, because, as you know, they come in fours. But, like, dude, these are, like, new. They look great. They would certainly qualify for the, like, new, barely used categorization on ebay.

[Joel]

From your backpack to mine. I'll take them home.

[Matt]

I love it.

[Joel]

And now I don't need to buy one of these for a long time.

[Matt]

You're good to go for another. However long those things, those bad boys last.

[Joel]

Decade and a half.

[Matt]

I don't know. Your other pair are just. They got holes in them and stuff. And as you know.

[Joel]

Thanks for thinking of me. That's very kind.

[Matt]

I told Kate this morning I was

[Joel]

just like half our listeners.

[Matt]

I can't wait to take this into Joel and see what he says.

[Joel]

Half our listeners are so. So grossed out right now.

[Matt]

So fun, you know, I'm particular, so I. When I. When I run my load, I. I even do a double. Double rinse, you know, So I like to really make sure my clothes are thorough.

[Joel]

If it were in reverse, would you have accepted the gift?

[Matt]

Yeah. Okay. If. Let's. Yeah, If. If I had, say, talked you into. And you didn't talk me into it, but I. You mentioned how much you love those

[Joel]

Kirkland signature boxer briefs. Even Wirecutter says, these are some of the best boxer briefs out in the land.

[Matt]

And I saw the review, and I thought, you know what? And I was actually in Costco the other day, walking past him, saw him. I was like, let me. What the heck? Let me give him a shot. And, you know, just. They. They didn't work for me, so.

[Joel]

Well, I'm Sorry they didn't work out for you. If hat one is another Miss Treasure,

[Matt]

if the shoe was on the other foot, I totally think I would. If I had talked you into my favorite pair of underwear and you're so, you know, gave him a shot. I've got four pair.

[Joel]

I got six pair here.

[Matt]

I'm like, all right, man, sign me up. I would be fine with it, you know.

[Joel]

All right, thanks, man. Bump.

[Matt]

People didn't see the tater that took place off camera.

[Joel]

So weird. So weird. We're. We're weird people. But what a great video.

[Matt]

Is that what you're expecting when you saw a surprise frigular cheese?

[Joel]

Not at all.

[Matt]

Yeah, I didn't think.

[Joel]

I don't think I could have predicted that. The. I don't think the calcium markets were predicting it either, but I love it. Do they take our behavior into account?

[Matt]

I don't think there are any Kalsha waivers wagers when it comes to Matt and Joel.

[Joel]

One of these days they're going to get that.

[Matt]

Like, if we get that big, then we'll have known that we made it.

[Joel]

All right, let's mention the beer we're having on this episode. This one's called Fire Skulls and Money. It's by Topling Goliath. It's a double IPA from friend of the show, Clint. So, Clint, thanks for sending us some beers, man. Appreciate it.

[Matt]

Yeah, Clint did a very excellent job packaging that beer, by the way.

[Joel]

The most thorough beer packaging job I've ever seen.

[Matt]

Yep, yep.

[Joel]

It kept them safe.

[Matt]

It could have. Yeah. It could have been like the most delicate porcelain china that would have arrived perfectly intact.

[Joel]

Well, with beers this good, I think they need to be packaged well. Take care of it. And if you have a money question, by the way, we'd love to hear from you. Just go to howtomoney.com ask or literally record your money question. Whatever's on the top of your head at the moment, that's fine. Like, record it on the voice memo app of your phone, email it over to us. Hopefully we can take it next week on the show. Matt, let's start off with a question. This one is about do I need to have more international exposure when it comes to my investments?

[Jordan]

Hey, Matt and Joel. Joel and Matt. Mo Jat. You guys are awesome. This is Jordan, longtime listener. You guys were talking on the Friday flight about how the VT Sacks is diversified, but they're calling them non diversified. And you mentioned some international diversified options for mutual funds or ETFs. And I was just wondering if you guys had a Value Vanguard equivalent. All right, thanks.

[Matt]

Wait, we've taken a listener question from Jordan before, right? Because he has done the mole Jat thing. Yes.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

Deja vu. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't like taking crazy pills. It's like, wait a minute. Have we actually already done this question? And I don't think we have.

[Joel]

New question, same intro.

[Matt]

But I do think we've heard from Jordan before.

[Joel]

So. Okay, so let's get into it, man.

[Matt]

Let's do it. This is this international investing.

[Joel]

This is a question I think that a lot of people are wondering now, right? And do I need to like, update my priors? Do I need to how I think about investing for the future? Do I need more international exposure because of concentration at the top right of the S and P? That's something we talked about. That's what Jordan's referring to, that non diversification risk. Is the S and P just too focused on a handful of companies? Some brokerage firms are like, hey, we don't think that the S and P is as diversified. It's not enough, right. For the average investor to have only s and P500 exposure. And the truth is the S&P's value is tied up in like seven companies, a third of it. Right.

[Matt]

You start asking these bigger questions of like, what is diversification? When you see that much of. Yeah, an S and P, for instance, weighted that heavily towards the Mag 7,

[Joel]

it opens up a Pandora's box of questions. And we understand the reaction. And that level of concentration. It's not my favorite, right, that like 9% or something of the S&P 500 is Nvidia. Right. So if Nvidia gets cut in half, well, that's going to hurt my, my S&P 500 index fund that I'm invested in. But we still think, Matt, overall, that the total stock market, total stock market index funds and s and P500 index funds are a reasonable choice for the average investor. They're still diversified enough. And there was a recent paper that found that investing in only a hand, and I'm going to quote here, this recent paper found investing in only a handful of the biggest companies has essentially the same riskiness as owning all the rest of the stocks in the S&P 500 combined. Because what they found is that larger stocks are safer. I think it's because one, there's more of a spotlight on bigger stocks. It's hard to basically say, well, Google is way overvalued or way undervalued.

[Matt]

Google's going under. Probably not going to happen, right?

[Joel]

Exactly.

[Matt]

Maybe eventually over decades. But it's not like this overnight volatility that you would expect.

[Joel]

When you're that big, the chances of that happening are slim to none. And we totally understand, Jordan, if you want to make tweaks to your portfolio. But I guess just want to start out by saying do not let the non diversification term, that's kind of gotten a lot of headlines and buzz that's floating around more and more spook you. Sure, sure.

[Matt]

Yeah. So regarding making tweaks, one thing that you could do is opt for what's called an equal weighted S&P 500 ETF. So rather than just looking at just the S&P 500, it's an equal weighted ETF. And that would of course reduce that significant 9% exposure drill that you mentioned to Nvidia. You'd be taking the stance of betting on average companies instead by reducing exposure to some of those big ones significantly. That being said, Vanguard doesn't offer one of these. Invesco, however, they offer a fund like this, but the expense ratio is a fair bit higher. It's a lot more expensive. And I'm not totally sure if it's going to be worth switching over because it might be a bit more volatile. But you would also be okay with, you would need to be okay with underperforming traditional S and P funds. And man, this just would be a significant shift in your investing strategy. I would certainly want you to think long and hard before making an extreme pivot like this. I think it's fair, it's okay for us to share that this thing exists without recommending that you go check this out. I just want you to know that it's out there, that this is actually the solution to the folks out there who are, you know, raising the alarm of non diversification is a path that

[Joel]

some people are taking.

[Matt]

Yeah, but personally, I hate this approach.

[Joel]

I think there's a reason Vanguard doesn't offer a fund.

[Matt]

Exactly. Yeah. And you're paying a whole lot more for the quote unquote privilege of going for an equal weighted S&P 500 ETF. But, like, because, yeah, the way I think about it, it's like you kind of want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to say, well, I want the S and P, so you get the broad, diverse array of companies, but I'm just not going to pay attention to capitalization. How much money is actually, how much worth and how much value do people believe is actually in These companies, which is like a very crucial piece of information that is like half of the. It's half of the. It makes me think of like a recipe, like if you're making cookies or something. It's sort of like saying, okay, well, I know I need flour, I need oil, I need water, I need chocolate chips. But it's sort of sea salt.

[Joel]

But.

[Matt]

Oh, a little, yeah, a little bit of that on top. But it's sort of like ignoring all the measurements and just saying, okay, one cup of flour, one cup of eggs, one cup of salt, one cup, one cup of chocolate chips. And guess what? I doubt that that is going to turn out very well. And so having tell our buddy Tim to give it a shot. This is a equal weighted chocolate chip cookie, Tim, what is that going to give you? I don't think it's going to give you the kind of results that you're looking for. And so in a similar way, like you are discounting all of the collective wisdom of everybody who is pouring their money into these companies and investing.

[Joel]

It's risky in another way for sure. Another option would be to get more international exposure. As Jordan mentioned, this would be, I think, much more understandable than opting for an equal weighted S&P 500 index fund. That's been one of the knocks on US centric S&P 500 style investing that basically leaving international out of the equation, it reduces your diversification and it could be harmful in the long run. It's actually been quite a bit of time since international stocks outperformed the United States. 2025 was United States stock market did pretty well. But it was the first year in over a decade that international stocks outperformed the United States. So the recency bias would indicate, well, being a US centric investor is best. But when you think about the decade before the last decade, Matt, we had international stocks experiencing superior returns. So if you were quote, unquote, more diversified, you would have experienced inferior returns over the past decade, but not necessarily over a longer period of time. Depends on the window you're picking. Right. And so just because of the last decade, that underperformance, even though last year saw a better year for international stocks, that still doesn't mean it's a bad idea to get more international exposure. Diversification is so often it's about reducing downside risk. It's not about scoring the biggest returns humanly possible. If we were opting for that, we'd be trying to pick the one stock that's going to outperform them all. Diversification.

[Matt]

Single stock investing man who wants to be an average index investor. Who wants to be like a. That was like one of the early cries against index.

[Joel]

Who wants average.

[Matt]

Yeah. Who wants to be the average American? Nobody. Like, it's all about American exceptionalism and finding the company that's gonna make it big. So.

[Joel]

And if that were, good luck doing that though. If that were easier. Right. Easier said than done, we'd all be going in that direction. But diversification is essentially saying, hey, I don't have that sort of ability. I'm gonna take the average. But how you diversify, man, and that's in the. So much in the eye of the beholder makes me think of even a con that I had with Ben Felix not too long ago. Matt, he's in Canada. How do Canadians think about having international exposure? Well, they've got more Canadian exposure than I've got. That's for sure. The average Canadian. And I think he, he said something like the average portfolio they construct for their clients is like 30% allocated to Canadian. Canadian companies. Yeah, that probably makes a little bit more sense if you're Canadian. Sure. Again, these are like really hard, murky decisions and there's no one size fits all answer. I don't think for everyone. Totally.

[Matt]

So while we're talking about international funds, there's a couple that we might refer you to specifically. So this is a Vanguard fund, vxus. And you will get a ton of international exposure in just this one singular low cost fund. You're going to own almost 8,700 stocks in this one fund. And it's mostly Europe and emerging markets. And actually, as the name implies, you are completely avoiding U.S. stocks in this one.

[Joel]

It's ex. Us.

[Matt]

Exactly. It's like, no, no, us.

[Joel]

We're marking it out.

[Matt]

That being said, you could check out vt. So this is another cool fund that Vanguard offers. It's got 10,000 stocks in it. This one includes U.S. stocks. So if you like the idea of owning, you know, a singular fund with US and international exposure, this one is, it's one of the best. It's roughly 2/3 US and then one third international. The rest of the world. And that's one that I've actually owned myself in the past. I think both of those, the vix, US as well as vt, both of those are worth considering. And of course, with it being Vanguard, the costs on those are exceptionally low. We're looking at point zero, 5.06%.

[Joel]

When you respectively, when you talked about the makeup of vt, it's interesting because that actually reflects more of kind of the international reality of how much money there is in different markets around the world. Because the United States does make up what, something like 60% of the world's

[Matt]

economy, which lines up pretty well. Which lines 2/3 US yeah, yeah. 1 third the rest of the rest

[Joel]

of the world combined. That is another very similar sort of set it and forget it. You're more widely diversified, you still have a bunch of US exposure. I think for a lot of people who are like, I think I want more international allocation. I think the S and P only sort of. It frightens me from a diversification perspective, opting for something like that, knowing that you might experience another decade of US dominance and see underperformance. But be okay with that because that's your diversification strategy. That's okay. And that's a fund worth considering, especially since the costs are reasonable. But the best way to change exposure, and I think it's worth highlighting this, is to do it over time. Instead of selling out of big positions and getting rid of all your VT Sachs or all your VOO or something like that, or most of it and jumping in on the funds we mentioned, like doing it in one fell swoop. It's typically best to change future investment purchases in an effort to rebalance over time. So depending on what account we're talking about, there could be tax implications for selling as well, for talking about like a taxable brokerage account. So you want to avoid that, but you also don't want to make big shifts that just radically shift your long term investing strategy without fully considering the implications. Moving that rudder in small ways can help you shift properly over time. So, hey, new contributions, maybe you're like, no, I do want more international exposure. So I'm going to go VX us with half of my contributions moving forward and VOO with the other half or you know what, for future contributions. I'm just going to put everything into VT because I do want to broaden out and have more international exposure over time. I think just like quick, dramatic changes to your investing plan, they're typically a bad idea and it almost always reveals some sort of underlying emotion going on that you need to pick out a little bit further.

[Matt]

I totally agree. I think it's important to identify why it is that you want to change your investing. If it's the headlines, if it's the scare, fear mongering that's taking place, maybe think twice. If you do like the idea of like, oh, I want to be team Earth and oh, there's a third of companies that I'm missing out on. I think that's a perfect, perfectly reasonable Captain Planet. Yeah. With our powers combined. What about the poor kid that was heart, you know, Like I always remember

[Joel]

being like, gosh, he got.

[Matt]

He drew the short straw when it came to when they're doling out the rings, you know, like I wanted to be like the fire, the water guy. Yeah. Or girl, I forget who.

[Joel]

It's been a long time.

[Matt]

Yeah. All right, Jordan, we hope that gets you pointed in the right direction. Joel, we got more to get to, including cell phones. We're going to talk about that. We'll talk about thick wallets. We won't get to back pain though, and how that hurts your back. We'll get to that more right after this.

[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

Allergies?

[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

all right, we're back. We got more of your money questions to get to Matt let's get to one about working for beer.

[Daniel]

Hey Matt and Joel Daniel from Northern California here. Been a long time listener of the show and love you guys. Just wanted to ask you two questions this week. One is a frugal or cheap? I was debating it with my co workers and I know where I stand. But I'm curious where you guys stand. I made friends with a local craft brewery up here and maybe once or twice a month I'll go in and I'll help them with canning or beer making. Just kind of doing grunt work for them, whatever they need and they pay me in the form of Free beers. I love doing this as just a release, but some of my co workers have called me cheap for it. What's your take? Switching to my actual money question, I was recently promoted to a director role at my work, which is a big deal for us. It was kind of unexpected, so I'm super excited for that. But in that we now have access to different health insurance plans that we had before. My children were on my wife's plan, so we're switching them over to my plan because my work does something very cool where they cover 100% of mine and my family's portions of any of our health insurance plans. But my question is specifically around HSAs. I've always been an HSA member. I've always had an HSA plan. But with these new options, I can go to our classic PPO plan, which according to the breakdown, costs my company about $2,000 more a month. So it seems like on paper it's a much better plan. Is it worth doing that and foregoing my HSA and the $200 monthly contribution my work puts in, or being as I have a young, healthy family, does it make more sense to stick with the HSA plan and take advantage of the 200 extra dollars a month they give me? Would greatly appreciate your input. Thank you guys.

[Matt]

Sounds like Daniel's crushing it on both fronts. Joel on the social craft beer front, but then also at work. So he's got a two parter here and I will say at least that I think going in, hanging out with your friends over at the brewery, getting some free beers, in addition to you saying that it's kind of like a release. I don't know what you do for work right from 9 to 5, but I'm guessing it's very different than what it is when you show up at the brewery. I am 100% down with you doing that.

[Joel]

Those brewery environments are often like highly collegial and you get those like regular customers to hang out with the. I just think a lot of people work at the brewery is like being, having tattoos and stuff like that. Like you get to hang out with like a different kind of crowd than maybe if you're working in like a CPA firm or something like that.

[Matt]

I'm guessing it's probably different, which is probably why his co workers think he's being cheap. Because they're, I don't know, they're probably like looking down their nose at him a little bit. They're like, dude, you, you crush it here at work.

[Joel]

Like you could take on this promotion, man, you know?

[Matt]

Yes, exactly. But it's. There's something else that you're gaining there. And in fact, I say this, having basically done what it is that you did. So Monday night is a brewery that we've. We've had their beers on the show many times, but when they first started, I would go to Jeff's Garage and we would hang out and I would. I mean, I wasn't doing the actual brewing. I was more like washing like carboys and stainless steel pots and stuff like that. But with that was just like, oh, yeah, you're kind of hanging out, getting into them, getting another brewery process, trying out their latest and greatest beers. Yeah.

[Joel]

And hanging out with cool peeps, man.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Like that to me, that if you were like, oh, I'm doing this thing, I hate to get free beer. And I probably could be doing something else that I enjoy more. Yeah, I don't do that.

[Matt]

But this is, you know, it sounds way more fun.

[Joel]

Yep. I think that's slam dunky decision for us. Yeah.

[Matt]

It's also like a different stage of life thing too, because I'm thinking, would I do that now? I'm not sure if I would.

[Joel]

No. You know, I would in my early mid-20s, but like.

[Matt]

And even early. Yeah. Like 30. My 30s as well. Maybe like today I would go like once a year if they were still. Still doing something like that, just to like, oh, what's going on? Just to check in, as opposed to. I was doing it like weekly there for a minute.

[Joel]

It's kind of like for the free beer, staying at a hostel. It was actually fun at one point. Yeah. And some adventure. I would literally be doing it only to save money. Yeah. And just probably not going to go to those links to save. There are a lot of links I'll go to save, but that's not going to be one of them anymore. Yeah.

[Matt]

Fun trivia story. That's at that garage is where I met your wife.

[Joel]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Matt]

For the first time.

[Joel]

This is before I knew her.

[Matt]

Before you knew her. Certainly before y' all were dating.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Yeah. Super fun. It's always a fun story when it comes up.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Matt]

We go back a long ways, man, for other reasons. I won't get into it too, who she was there with instead.

[Joel]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shut up.

[Matt]

Hey, who is she with now? My friend, it's you.

[Joel]

She went. She went with the hero.

[Matt]

You're the wise choice, obviously.

[Joel]

Yeah. All right, let's move on. Let's get to Daniel's question His, his

[Matt]

second question, his real question.

[Joel]

He. And congrats on the promotion, Daniel. That's huge. Like that's awesome. So fun. My guess is your promotion came with a raise, a decent raise. But the sick healthcare plan, that's a, that's a really nice perk as well. And total compensation as we always say here on the show, Matt, that's the ultimate value of your worth to the company. Some people look at the headline salary but there are all these other ancillary benefits that you get from your employer that can meaningfully add up. Healthcare being for sure one of those and that's such a large expense for the average person even when you have coverage through work. So Daniel, just first off, be thankful for this, you know, this outsized benefit and what it provides you makes you think about. We talked recently about how even people with, with healthcare plans to work are filing for bankruptcy more often because of medical bills. It's super sad. So to have this excellent coverage is so clutch. Yeah.

[Matt]

And I also love that he's had this HSA for such a long time. He said that he's never not had an hsa, which I'm like, bro, you're just like humble bragging over there. It's so good. I've never had an hsa. I do hope you've taken full advantage of it and that you have been investing those dol for your far out future. But let's get to the crux of it, right? This premium healthcare plan because it sounds like your employer is going to pay for your premiums no matter what plan you choose. And if that's the case, man, my gut tells me to maybe pick the more expensive plan that puts the smallest potential burden on you, the PPO plan. I think it's going to likely mean that you can budget less for how much you have to set aside for doctor visits thanks to the lower co pays, a reduced deductible. Like all in all it's just going to cost you less. It's kind of, it sounds like the premium option and so I don't. Even though you're used to the hsa, I don't want you to discount this, I don't know, this premium plan especially. It's not just you anymore. You know, you've got a family like you've got others to think about as well so.

[Joel]

And you could be pennywise pound foolish being like I'm going to prioritize the HSA no matter what because I know that's one of the best tax, you know, tax advantage Retirement accounts.

[Matt]

That's right.

[Joel]

And, and give up essentially a much better health care plan just to have access to the hsa. So I think that's definitely one thing to take into consideration. I think, though, Matt, let's say, let's say Daniel had said we spent a lot of money on health care and

[Matt]

guess what, that would make it easier.

[Joel]

My wife's about to have a baby.

[Matt]

That would make it easier.

[Joel]

I would be like, oh man, the more generous health care plan premium all the way gonna save you tons of money. So most definitely that's the direction you want to go in. But he also said, hey, my family's pretty healthy, which means you're likely not hitting your deductible most years. If it were just a question of giving up access to your hsa, that would be one thing. But you're also giving up $2,400 a year in free HSA contributions if you choose the fancier plan. That's also a big perk. Talking about total compensation, I would do this. I would maybe take a slight. And this is not usually my mo mat. I go with the gut. But like, let's look at the data here. Like, what have you spent recently on healthcare that would help inform my decision? Look at the last couple years of expenses. How much have you actually paid out in terms of doctor's visit, in terms of medical bills? Because really, your HSA access to this HSA, well, it's worth more than $2,400 a year. You get, yes, that free money, but because of tax free compounding, that makes this an even more. It's hard to say this is exactly how much it's worth, but it's worth more than $2,400. I know that. So use that as a rule of thumb. If you're more likely to save more than 2400 bucks a year with a nicer plan, lead in that direction. If not, I would say keep the high deductible plan that comes with free HSA dollars attached because that's a super huge perk.

[Matt]

Yeah, both. I think both are great options and just know that you're not always going to be able to come out ahead, I think. Right. Like you can't predict when one of your kids or like, honestly even you like when someone's going to break an ankle. There are going to be some years when healthcare expenses are higher and you might wish you had the more robust, like Cadillac plan. But then in years where you're not going to the doctor, hardly at all, you're going to be sad to miss out on that $200 just coming in every single month that you normally invest.

[Daniel]

Right.

[Matt]

There's HSA dollars. There is no perpetually perfect choice. And so, actually, with that in mind, I think it's worth revisit. Like, this isn't a set it and forget it kind of decision. I think you can just alternate from year to year. Right. So when you do have healthcare needs that obviously you can wait to address, well, you can always opt for the fancier plan down the line. Right. Where you're attempting to schedule multiple procedures in the year when you have the more stellar coverage. It makes me think about. It's just a more strategic approach to your healthcare. It makes me think about taking the standard deduction versus itemized. Right. And if typically you're like, yeah, our charitable contributions don't get us anywhere near the $31,000. Okay, yeah, go with the standard. But if you know that there's a year where it's just like, oh, we've kind of been sitting on some cash that we're looking to really deploy. Okay, well, let's make the most of that year that you're going to itemize your taxes so that you can maximize every single dollar that you can deduct in a similar way.

[Joel]

And you're saying, like, maybe batching.

[Matt]

Batch your giving. Yeah, batch your charitable giving. So in a similar way, you're being strategic, and you're. Hopefully you might be able to batch your medical procedures that might be a bit more elective that you can kind of postpone for down the road. Obviously, that doesn't account for more immediate acute medical needs. So, yeah, you can't plan for it all, but you can. Strategic approach.

[Joel]

Those are the wild card.

[Matt]

Right.

[Joel]

Those are the things that you can't predict. But this is a gamble. But I, like, kind of what you're outlaying is that one year, it could make more sense for you to opt for the PPO plan because you're like, all right, we're gonna do all the. As much as we can do. Get all the elective surgeries done, pull

[Matt]

out the brochure, like, see what else it includes. And you're like, oh, by the way, actually, I'm gonna opt for the. Whatever. Whatever. Didn't even think that was an option.

[Joel]

Exactly.

[Matt]

I mean, that's how I'd be thinking about it.

[Joel]

And then in the hsa, gonna get my money's worth, you know, like, you're. You're gonna try to spend as little as possible. Yeah. And just kind of hope that none of those wild card medical situations come along, but be prepared for it. Have the savings on hand, but also just know that there's greater risk.

[Matt]

I think that's the absolute best approach. All right, Joel, let's hear from our next listener who has a bunch of credit cards. He still doesn't have as many as I've had over my lifetime though. But let's hear from Brian.

[Brian]

Hey, Joel and Matt. This is Brian from Wisconsin. Quick credit question. My wife and I are paying down about $38,000 in credit card debt spread across about 13 cards. And our current credit score is around 680. As we pay these cards off, is it better to cancel them right away or keep them open another three to six months to optimize utilization and help our credit score long term? We'd like to be down to just a few cards. What would you recommend and why?

[Joel]

All right, Matt. So by the way, Brian also said in his email we don't plan on taking out any loans in the near future, which is informative. He also said maybe a car loan in the next two years if we need. If we need to. We already have a mortgage. We don't plan on moving anytime soon. So that's helpful background information. All right.

[Matt]

Hey, if you're thinking about like gearing up for a car loan in two years, it sounds like, Brian, you might have two years to start saving for a car, which you'll be able to do after you eliminate some of this credit card debt.

[Joel]

That's true. But then all the money that's flowing towards credit card payments can go towards saving for the new car.

[Matt]

Heck yeah.

[Joel]

And hopefully the new to you used car.

[Matt]

Heck yeah. Yeah. And I will say I don't want to. It sounds like right out of the gate we're kind of dragging Brian through the mud a little bit. I want to start with the fact that you are getting after it. And I love that your credit score is not ideal, but honestly, that is a minor concern right now given the fact that you don't have any plan need for any new credit. But the biggest goal is to get rid of this credit card debt as quickly as possible, which means that you essentially get to decide whether you want to take the snowball approach or the avalanche approach. And so basically the snowball is when you're picking the smallest debt and you're building up to the larger ones. Avalanche is where you're focusing on the credit cards with the highest interest rate. That being said, snowball is typically best when we're talking about debts that have roughly the same interest rate.

[Joel]

If they're all credit cards, right? Which is what these are. If he was like, I also have a car Note that's at 6% and I have a mortgage that's at 3%, we'd be like, well, leave the mortgage and actually maybe save the car note for later. Focus on the credit cards first. You are taking more of an avalanche approach in that case. But if they're all credit cards, man, go snowball. Because I think that's going to provide the biggest psychological win and help you keep that momentum going to pay these off, eradicate them in no time. Brian. So, yeah, pick the one with the smallest balance, attack it hard, then you move on. You'll get rid of that one quickly, you'll be down to 12 cards, then go for the next smallest balance. This is just like, man helping you see rapid progress.

[Matt]

That's massive psychological wins accrue with the snowball method.

[Joel]

Yeah, it's fun. It's incentivizing to keep moving and keep making more progress. And the thing is, you don't need to cancel your credit card once you pay it off. I get the impulse, but we'll talk about why you don't need to and why you might not want to. You just need to stop using that credit card. So I'm glad that you understand how the utilization ratio impacts your score. It is a big part of what makes up everybody who's listening's credit score. You want to pay attention to that. And if your credit card has a limit of $10,000 and you're spending $9,000 on that credit card, even every single month, let's say, even if you're paying it the balance on time and in full every single month, that is doing damage to your credit score. And so we do want to reduce how much we're using. Maybe that means opening up another card, asking for a credit limit increase on the card you currently have. But yeah, keeping that card open for a while, even as you're not using it, right. Kicking it to the curb and you're not spending on that credit card anymore. That can be wise. In terms of which one of the things you expressed is wanting to build that credit score back up. Closing the credit cards is not going to be a big help in that. Paying them off is.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, it is. There is a big if there though, right? And I appreciate you identifying that, Joel, because like, the caveat is making sure that you've identified how you got into credit card debt like this in the first place because, you know, you're serious about paying off this debt. Yes. But I don't want you to find yourself sliding back into credit card debt down the road. And so it's in, you know, it's just, it's so crucial to make changes that are going to significantly reduce the likelihood of getting into that credit card debt again. And I think closing maybe some of those credit card accounts might be part of that process, if you feel like having them at your disposal is just going to be too tempting.

[Joel]

Makes me think of the term. I don't know if you heard this growing up, Matt. You grew up differently than me. You grew up more in a Catholic background. But where I went to church growing up, it was called backsliding. Right. I've heard about that. So that's. That's like, what we want to permit. And that was like, yeah, no, I'm committing to this new way of living. But, gosh, I don't know, I love. I still love going. Getting drunk at the bar or something like that. Right. And that was what the preacher wanted to prevent, was, like, the backsliding. And I think that's kind of what we're advocating against here, is, hey, be careful. Because if you're prone to backsliding and using these credit cards again by keeping them open, there's. There's something to be nervous about there. Something to pay attention to. Yeah.

[Matt]

Work on your. Your Southern. Your Southern Baptist fire and brimstone preacher imitation delivery. So that way, next time you can really bring it.

[Joel]

Folks, don't. Don't put it past me. I can, I can imitate that. Well, I heard it for so many years. Trust me, I can. I can replicate.

[Matt]

Yeah, but I mean, that being said, like, truly, I just, I want to make sure that, like, it sounds like he's got things figured out. Right. It sounds like maybe before he didn't know. Right. Like, they were just kind of spending. They weren't really thinking about it. Since then, they found the podcast. Right. They've read some articles. They realize how important it is to get out from behind this credit card debt, and maybe there's like zero chance at all that they're going to go back into it. But if you've kind of known that you should not be spending the way you have on those credit cards for a number of years, and now you've got some more motivation, you're kind of getting after it, I don't know. I would be less inclined. I would be a little more nervous for him to keep around all of his credit cards especially. I'm sure there's a couple credit cards that he. There might even be like an emotional attachment to where he's just like, oh, yeah, there's the whatever. Whatever card. That's the card that I always use when I go here.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

There could just be some ingrained behaviors. And I certainly don't want to elevate maximizing your credit score by keeping these around if it means that you end up actually paying more physical dollars in the process. No, I agree.

[Joel]

And I think, yeah, that's a really important thing to highlight because a lot of Americans, I think part of the reason something like half of Americans keep a recurring credit card balance is because they don't understand how detrimental it is. And they don't understand just how much that interest is costing them and that by not paying it off as quickly as possible and making a plan, they're doing perpetual harm to their finances. I think Brian understands that now. Yeah. So. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah. And so if that's the case, Brian, then you can consider keeping the cards around. If you feel like it's going to be a temptation, it's probably better to close them. And we love the idea of simplifying. Right. Using fewer credit cards moving forward. That's probably smart. It's easier to keep track of your spending and whether it's for a lack of organization or a desire to earn points. Quickly overdoing it on the credit card signups. Right. Can do. Can do more harm than good for a lot of people. The best cards to keep around. You asked about that. If you feel like you can handle them responsibly. Likely just kind of a plain Jane 2% cash back card. Like I use the Fidelity Investments credit card. There's the Citi Double Cash card.

[Matt]

Double Cash.

[Joel]

That's great.

[Matt]

I kind of don't even want to mention the Robinhood because I feel like that might be the slippery slope and for.

[Joel]

Okay, so Brian, consider it in the future.

[Matt]

Yeah, Brian, you don't listen to this part, but for anybody else out there who's never had credit card debt and you're looking to maximize the plain Jane approach. I mean, the Robinhood Gold Card 3%. Here's the. Have we talked about how they. How tricky they are in the app, though? I can't remember if we've talked about this on the show or not. Well, as far as the cash back, how you get the actual 3%, I

[Joel]

think we have, but I don't know because you can't redeem it for a statement credit.

[Matt]

And get that right, you have to transfer it to your Robinhood account, at which point you can then deposit it. Like it gets swept into your brokerage cash balance. But the fact is, is if you're looking for just a straight up cash back or the, or the statement balance, it's less than the 3%. So just a little, little word to the wise for folks out there who are like, yes, I am a nerd and I will not ever carry a balance. Let me get the Robinhood card. It is worth the, you know, the annual fee of. Shoot, what is it?

[Joel]

Yeah, essentially Robin Hood gold. Five bucks a month, right?

[Matt]

Five. So maybe, yeah, it's a little bit of a discount paid all at once. But. But yeah, I think I'm all for

[Joel]

the simple is better approach. I think that the Amex Blue Cash. Right. To use at the grocery store. That's a really, really good one.

[Matt]

6% is so hard to beat as well.

[Joel]

Yeah. And the Costco card, if you're a Costco shopper, is awesome too. With the 5% cash back at gas stations and 2% back at Costco. Right. Like it's. That's just a really, a really solid perk as well. So yeah, keep the old cards in the mix. Even if you're confining your spending to just two or three of those cards. I think that's the best way to move forward. Feel free to cut them up. Take them out of your Google and Apple wallet so that you're not tempted to use them.

[Matt]

Like you just remove the saved data from your browser on your computer because so many of us are. It's not like we're going from store to store. And the. Oh man, my credit card's overheating because I keep swiping it. I keep tapping it. No, it's. It's online ordering, man.

[Joel]

That's the biggest ingrained habit. Right. So just detaching those cards and then just changing some of the habits of how you used to shop is going to be clutch as well. But. But not closing them will help improve your credit score the most. Still. Is that the most consequential thing? It really depends. And you got to know yourself. That's ultimately so much the answer to this question boils down to that. That's right.

[Matt]

But we've got more to get to Joel, including tax returns. It is that time of the year. So we'll talk about how to use that best. We'll get to that more right after this.

[Joel]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Joel]

all right, we're back. Now it's time for the Facebook question of the week. This one comes from Samantha who says she asks what is everyone using for affordable cell phone and home Internet service? We've had both through the same provider for the last few years and they just raised prices by 20 bucks a month. So I'm looking at options to replace both. I've looked at Mint Mobile for phone, but unfortunately their Internet is not available at my house. So she's trying to figure out what to do, Matt. And by the way, I'm just glad a lot of people, they like the frog in the boiling water, they get the notice and they just say, ah, whatever, I'm just going to keep paying it. And I love that Samantha is not.

[Matt]

Yeah, well, Mint Mobile is a solid option. Yeah. But to answer your question, US Mobile is the new company that has essentially outfoxed Mint Mobile.

[Joel]

Oh, snap. I did that on purpose.

[Daniel]

You went there.

[Matt]

The Fox.

[Joel]

You know, Ryan Reynolds is not going

[Matt]

to be happy when it comes to pricing, when it comes to product offerings, man, they've essentially taken every page out of Mint's playbook and just made it a little bit better. Except for maybe the website feels a little bit.

[Joel]

Really? Oh, I like the US Mobile website.

[Matt]

Oh, do you? Yeah, to me, I don't know. I kind of like the minimal, easy. There's just some weird like the selecting the account and the astronaut or what's your icon?

[Joel]

Oh, it's been. Yeah, it's been. When's the last time I logged in? Maybe a couple few months ago.

[Matt]

There's a few things about it that feel very PC versus versus Mac. But okay. US Mobile unlimited talk, text and data options starting at just $17.50 a month. So for most folks, that's definitely the place to turn US Mobile. They have also announced that they're going to be offering at home 5G Internets. It's just not available yet. So look for that later this year

[Joel]

and I guarantee it's going to be cheaper than Mint. It's going to be cheaper than almost what anybody else is offering.

[Matt]

Yeah. And so hopefully that'll be available where it is that you live, Samantha, in

[Joel]

particular, I love seeing the rise of 5G home Internet, Matt. It's not for everyone. It's not the best choice for everyone, but it's just a third competitor in the space which is crucial to bringing down prices in most markets. In so many markets we've had a duopoly for so long. I guess there are better Internet providers for rural home Internet now too. Like with the likes of Starlink. Right. Making man. Before that, if you lived in rural America, the options were.

[Matt]

You didn't have a choice very.

[Joel]

They were so slow and you didn't have so expensive.

[Matt]

What's the world up to? I don't know. I live in Decorah, Iowa, where they make toppling dollars. I'm sure decor is actually a wonderful place to live.

[Joel]

Probably is. And. But yeah, there's a lot of the. I had family members who lived in rural parts of the south and they just didn't have like a cable or a cable option or a DSL option. So they had to go with those satellite options. And they were just pathetic.

[Matt]

I was gonna say. Yeah. Did they back in the day, did they have like one of those giant satellites?

[Joel]

Some people did and some people just had like the rooftop one, but dish. Yeah. Which was. Was not just not great from really any standpoint, but it was the only option. So you might get the best price, Samantha. And faster service by going with your cable company or the old school phone company. Like a DSL type service. So much depends on where you live and what else is available to you. And you might even be able to get your current provider to reduce the price you pay without having to make a switch that is worth mentioning. Yeah, yeah. They're raising their prices by 20 bucks a month. But the savings, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And if you can talk to the right folks at that company, in particular the customer retention department, if the initial person you speak to is not very helpful, then you might see that fee go away. Right. You might see that price go back down to what you were paying. It's best to be armed with some information and say, hey, these are my other options right now. These are the prices I could pay if I switch. And then you just have to be willing to walk if you don't get a good enough deal. Totally agree.

[Matt]

Let's take another one. Joel. From an anonymous poster who wrote, I'm expecting a tax return of about 2000 dol and trying to decide the smartest way to use it. Option one, pay off about $2,000 in medical debt. I'm currently paying $200 a month on it. It's at 0% interest and I'm on a payment plan so it would not be sent to collections. Option two, pay off two credit cards instead. Payments on those cards are similar, but they do have high interest. Paying them off would free up about $90 a month and stop the interest from accumulating. So my question is, does it make more sense to eliminate the 0% debt with a higher monthly payment or knock out the highest interest credit cards even though the monthly payment relief is smaller? Yeah. What you think, Joel?

[Joel]

Just quick reminder to everyone out there, like tax refunds this time of year, it's one of the best chances to make a big dent in a money goal you've got. I think so many people just they're

[Matt]

being smart about what they're doing with.

[Joel]

Yeah, it's like often seen as like seed money for vacation or whatever. Or gosh, with the bigger refunds that people are experiencing this year, maybe it pays for your whole vacation. But if it means you're stuck in significant credit card debt, you might want to rethink what you're going to do with that money. I would go with option two here, Matt. It sounds like this poster is still going to have the money to pay towards their medical debt, which should take less than a year. While the monthly relief is smaller. From a payment perspective, you're forking over less money and interest and that's what we prioritize. Especially since $90 is probably just the minimum payment you can make on your credit cards.

[Matt]

That's true.

[Joel]

Or close to it. Like, we just never want you doing that. We want to see you out of credit card debt completely as soon as

[Matt]

possible as opposed to just servicing this loan month to month. And someone listening might be like, well, dudes, this sounds like the opposite of what you just talked about from the Snowball avalanche approach. There are some differences though, because in this case we're talking about the secondary. Well, you got your first more egregious payments going towards your credit cards that are going to have a higher interest rate. The second option, that being the medical debt, is literally at zero. It's not like you're waffling between, okay, well you got one at 13% and you got the other one at 22%. But the 13% card has a smaller balance. No, no, no. We're talking about the difference between 0% and likely something in the, I'm guessing probably in the twenties, perhaps.

[Joel]

When it comes to credit cards, we're not comparing Honeycrisp and Fuji. We're comparing honeycrisp and N Oranges. It's like, yeah, there's a difference.

[Matt]

It's a complete difference.

[Joel]

They're both debts, but they're different.

[Matt]

Yeah, but even still, based on what you're saying there, Joel, you know, you pay off the credit card balances, and then you could take the extra $90 that you're freeing up every month, and then you use it to get rid of your medical debt even more quickly, if that's something that you're wanting to eliminate, to make sure that you're staying on schedule where you're not having to worry about that anymore. And in addition to that, since you're not paying any interest on that medical debt payment, that's probably not your best bet either. So pay that medical bill off as agreed. Over time, take that 90 bucks, start building up an emergency fund, having liquid cash on hand. Right? No credit card debt, no medical debt. This is going to put you in such a great position to just positively build from that point like you are. Then you've got a great foundation, and then sky's the limit.

[Joel]

Yeah, yeah. We're trying to get you back up to the foundation right now. You're like, a couple steps down into

[Matt]

the basement subgrade at the moment.

[Joel]

If you can take those couple steps up with these smart moves, then you're ready to start ascending even further. So. Hope that helps. Matt, let's get back to the beer. Let's mention this one. The Fire Skulls and Money Double India Pale Ale from Toppling Goliath Brewing. What'd you think of this beer, my friend?

[Matt]

Well, before we get into the tasting notes. Fire, Skulls and money. I mean, I'm pretty sure he sent this one to us because it's got money in it. It's just like, oh, Matt and Joel, they would love to have this one. And I love a nice.

[Joel]

I like fire too much.

[Matt]

Yeah, fire and, well, skulls. Gotta remind yourself of your mortality. That's true. But, oh, my gosh, this was so good. This had everything that you could want. It was so juicy. You could smell the citrus as I was pouring these out, pouring these into our glasses at the very beginning. But then it's got such great complexity. It's thicker. The mouth feels fantastic. You got just the sharp vegetal notes from the hops as well. It's a little dank. It's a little juicy. Got some fruit going on. It's. Dude, it makes me. How long has it been since I've had just a fantastic double? That's what I'm asking myself right now.

[Joel]

That's what you and I said Kind of right as we cracked it right before we started recording was like, because we.

[Matt]

Oh, this is gonna be a good one. Well, we.

[Joel]

And we drink less beer than we used to. And that might be a disappointment to some listeners, but, like, part of it

[Matt]

is just like, oh, the boys are losing their edge.

[Joel]

Part of it is, like, getting older, and it's just. We're not that old. Come on, try me. Like, pick a fight with me. See what happens. I'm not that old yet. But, like, we are a little bit older. And, like, there's something about getting those eight hours of good sleep matters more than it used to. And so we're willing to cut loose every now and again, but, my goodness, we just don't drink as much as many fantastic beers as we have in the past. And because of that, when we have a fantastic beer, it just hits. It's just nice.

[Matt]

It's like, that much. It's all the more better. But is that what you thought?

[Joel]

Yeah, I mean, I love. I think pungent usually is a word that's used in the negative. I thought of this as, like, pungent in the positive. Like a love. Loved the smell. Everything radiating out of the glass. And it was like citrus on steroids in. In a really good way. And then I just love the way the hot bite, like, lingered on my tongue. Like you. There's some beers that kind of dissipate quickly. This one, it's not like you take a sip and stuck with. You taste that beer for 30 minutes afterwards.

[Matt]

So that's in the best way possible.

[Joel]

This was great.

[Matt]

Yeah. Shout out again to Clint. Thank you for sending this one and some others our way that we're looking forward to getting to. But, buddy, that's going to be it for this long Ask Kind of Money episode. We hope you have enjoyed it. You can find resources up on the [e-mail] and that's going to be it.

[Joel]

And send us your questions. We want to hear from you.

[Matt]

Oh, yes. Yeah, absolutely. Listeners send the best questions.

[Joel]

I mean, you.

[Matt]

You know who we're talking to.

[Joel]

Yeah, you do it. All right, ready? Until next time. Best friends out.

[Matt]

Best friends. Every business has its own rhythm. It's got its rushes, its lulls, moments when every second counts. Running a business isn't about doing one thing well. It's about making sure everything works together. That's where genius comes in.

[Joel]

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[Matt]

Yeah, big league reliability for your small business. Well, that's genius. Meet [e-mail] Struggling to see up close? Make it visible with Viz. Viz is a once daily prescription eye drop to treat blurry near vision for up to 10 hours. The most common side effects that may be experienced while using VIZ include eye irritation, temporary dim or dark vision, headaches and eye redness. Talk to an eye doctor to learn if VIZ is right for you. Learn [e-mail] is it just me or is it getting really hard to figure out the best way to save for retirement? Well, Fidelity can help you to find clarity so you can save the best way for you with a free personalized plan, goal tracking and timely insights. He'll be set to take on retirement your way.

[Joel]

Get [e-mail] future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services member NYSE SIPC Travel is such a life changing pursuit and my trip to Australia was one of the best investments I've ever made. I got to enjoy the bustling metropolis of Melbourne and some of the best coffee of my life while also driving the great ocean road and taking in spectacular views. I even hopped on a plane to the island of Tasmania. That was my favorite stop. I loved it all. A trip to Australia doesn't just offer a getaway, it's an investment in experiences that stay with you. Explore more destinations in Australia and start planning your memorable [e-mail] this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.