Ask HTM - Set for Life w/ Trump Accounts, Cash vs a Car Loan, & Vetting a Financial Advisor #1129

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Money – "Ask HTM - Set for Life w/ Trump Accounts, Cash vs a Car Loan, & Vetting a Financial Advisor"

Hosts: Joel & Matt
Episode #: 1129
Air Date: April 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this listener-focused "Ask HTM" episode, Joel and Matt tackle practical financial questions from their audience, taking on the costs and benefits of hiring a financial advisor, the intricacies of paying cash vs financing when buying a car, and re-examining the controversial "Trump accounts" for kids’ retirement planning. Throughout, the hosts emphasize hands-on learning, behavioral pitfalls, and striking the balance between financial optimization and real-life needs.

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1. Icebreakers & Accountability: Wake-Up Stakes & Motivation

[01:29–10:55]

Key Discussion Points

• Hosts delineate themselves: Matt as “the Asian looking one,” Joel as “the tall Norwegian looking guy,” joking about listener confusion over their voices and heritage [01:29].
• Wake-up accountability tools: They discuss behaviorally-motivated alarm apps (like “Nuj”), which require scanning an item (like a shampoo bottle) to ensure the user is really up and out of bed.
  • Joel: "Accountability goes a long way. If you have skin in the game... you’re just more likely to like, embark on the behavior that you want to engage in." [07:20]
  • Matt relates this to fitness challenges and even gym memberships: "Some folks aren't going to be able to do the at-home gym thing... the fact that they are drafting [payment] out of my credit card or whatever every single month means that I show up." [08:13]
• Physiological need vs. life hacks: Matt notes the best alarm is good sleep itself, but acknowledges for many, novelty apps and putting “money on the line” can nudge habits forward.

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2. Listener Q: Is a Financial Advisor Worth It?

[10:55–23:05]

Key Insights

• Listener Matt from Indy: Weighs engaging a "fee-only fiduciary" advisor while preparing to start a family and feeling sticker shock at the quoted price.
• Matt & Joel’s Take:
  • Step 1: “If you hire the wrong advisor or the one who works under the wrong model, you could be up the creek without a paddle...” [12:22]
    • Always start with fiduciary, fee-only advisors. See [howtomoney.com/advisor] for pre-vetted options.
  • Early-stage wealth builders: Don’t need an advisor; limited dollars are better funneled into retirement accounts.
    • “You don’t really need advice the first five years, often the first ten years…” [13:16]
  • When is advice worth it?:
    • Not about “beating the market,” but about coaching, accountability, and complex optimization as your financial life gets more intricate [14:47].
    • "The biggest reason you should consider hiring an advisor... is if you need guidance. If you're looking for somebody... as a coach at your side." [14:53]
    • “If you have a history of bailing at the wrong time, an advisor might be worth the cost just to keep you invested and calm.” [18:40]
  • Costs for advisors: $3,000–$8,000 per year for flat-fee arrangements, or $250+/hr for hourly [22:21].
  • Don’t stop learning: “Even if you do choose to hire an advisor, don’t stop learning on your own, because it’s still your money.” [22:52]

Notable Quote

• Joel: "If you look back at the pandemic... and saw that as yet another opportunity to back up the truck and completely load up on stocks, well, okay, you pass." [19:35]

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3. Listener Q: Cash vs. Car Loan for Minivan Purchase

[25:24–34:42]

Key Discussion Points

• Listener Travis: Considering whether to pay cash or take a 1.9% auto loan when his savings are earning around 3%.
• Arbitrage logic: Joel explains the benefit of “harnessing the gap” between borrowing cost and savings return, noting the value of liquidity. “From a pure dollars and cents perspective, it’s a smart arbitrage play. But from a human behavior standpoint, you got to ask yourself these questions...” [31:34]
• Behavioral guards: Matt warns about potential pitfalls—temptation to overspend, “wealth effect,” and slippery slope toward less-disciplined spending.
• Other considerations:
  • Buying new vs used: New cars depreciate rapidly; only buy new if keeping 10+ years and can afford it [30:06].
  • If choosing loan: Treat reserved cash as sacrosanct, don’t raid it for lifestyle creep [32:50].
  • Use low-rate loans only if required for liquidity, dealer incentives, or to invest the difference for higher returns.

Notable Quotes

• Joel: “Liquidity is a really important factor to consider and there's power in having liquid cash on hand.” [27:27]
• Matt: "If you're saving hundreds of dollars and you're investing that money, you could potentially even grow this gap even more, making this a sick arbitrage play." [31:08]

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4. Deep Dive: Are "Trump Accounts" a Secret Weapon for Kids' Retirement?

[34:42–48:27]

Key Discussion Points

• Listener Nick (Philly): Considers "Trump accounts" (new kids’ Roth-style accounts, convertible to IRAs) as pure retirement tools for children, vs. 529s/UTMAs, with the plan to front load and let them compound for decades.
• Nick’s scenario: Max-fund $5,000/yr from birth to 18, convert to Roth in kids' low-tax early years, subsidize tax hit, and possibly see $8M in tax-free retirement for the child by 65.
  • “Is this one of those niche cases where this account might actually make sense?” [36:52]
• Hosts' Analysis:
  • Technically possible and potentially powerful, but highly niche—most families are better off with modest 529 funding, which can now convert to Roth for children who don’t attend college [38:00–40:19].
  • Philosophical hesitation: Massive pre-funding of retirement misses key life lessons for kids; concerns about “teaching them to fish” vs. doing it all for them [42:22–44:16].
    • "Retirement feels different... I want my kids to learn the tradeoffs of money..." [43:08]
  • Warning: At 18, kids gain legal control of these accounts and could cash out and upend plans [48:01].
• Conclusion: “From a running the numbers standpoint, Nick is 100% right on this. But...what do you want to convey to your kids?” [43:32]
• Beer/Philly Brewery sidebar: Listener Nick offers brewery recommendations if the hosts visit Philly.

Notable Quotes

• Matt: "If you are in the position to have helped them to achieve this to begin with, then you certainly should be in a position to help them with the taxes down the road." [42:09]
• Joel: "I was jealous right? I wished at that point in time that someone had bought me a car. But I realized now with hindsight, that was the best thing that could have happened to me." [47:18]

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5. Quick Hits: International Travel and ESIMs

[49:35–55:42]

Key Discussion Points

• Lori asks: Where to buy ESIMs for an upcoming trip abroad?
• Joel & Matt’s advice:
  • If frequent traveler: Consider Google Fi or US Mobile (bundled global coverage, $25–40/month).
  • For occasional trips: Airalo (airalo.com) offers country or region-specific ESIMs, buy as much/little data as needed.
  • Data savings: Rely on Wi-Fi where possible; only buy as much cell data as truly needed.
  • Storytime: Hosts reminisce about pre-ESIM days, getting around Europe with printed maps and serendipity.

Notable Quote

• Matt: “Getting an ESIM is probably going to be a much better experience and product than paying for the GPS upgrade on your car.” [53:03]

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6. Beer Review & Closing Chatter

[55:42–57:24]

• Beer: “Satisfied” lager from Piedmont Brewing Company.
• Tasting notes: Crisp, light, perfect for yard work or refreshments after gardening—a classic lawnmower beer.
• Sign off: Encouragement for listeners to send in questions, and a toast to best friends everywhere.

Quote

• Joel: “This is the time of year that this kind of beer hits right, too, so great beer... when it's warm, this is what you want to be drinking.” [56:58]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Wake-Up Accountability Hacks – 01:29–10:55
• Financial Advisor Value & Costs – 10:55–23:05
• Cash vs. Car Loan: The Liquidity & Arbitrage Decision – 25:24–34:42
• Trump Accounts as Supercharged Kid Retirement Vehicles – 34:48–48:27
• Travel Abroad & ESIMs – 49:35–55:42
• Beer Review & Final Thoughts – 55:42–57:24

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Memorable Quotes

1. Joel [07:20]:
   “Accountability goes a long way. If you have skin in the game... you’re just more likely to like, embark on the behavior that you want to engage in.”
2. Matt [14:53]:
   "The biggest reason you should consider hiring an advisor... is if you need guidance. If you're looking for somebody... as a coach at your side."
3. Joel [27:27]:
   “Liquidity is a really important factor to consider and there's power in having liquid cash on hand.”
4. Matt [31:08]:
   “You could potentially even grow this gap even more, making this a sick arbitrage play.”
5. Joel [43:08]:
   "Retirement feels different... I want my kids to learn the tradeoffs of money..."
6. Matt [42:09]:
   "If you are in the position to have helped them to achieve this to begin with, then you certainly should be in a position to help them with the taxes down the road."

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Final Takeaway

This episode balances tactical financial advice with bigger-picture reflections on life, choices, and what money is for. Joel and Matt blend numbers-savvy guidance with the reminder that money decisions—whether hiring an advisor or gifting millions to your kids—are never just about math, but mission, meaning, and the kind of life you hope to build.

Transcript

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

let's say you've always wanted to take a spontaneous trip to the Caribbean. Well, here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money, like treating yourself to something special or

[Joel]

spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one man? So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 19 million customers [e-mail] not an Empower client, paid or sponsored. Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

And I am Matt, the Asian looking one.

[Joel]

That's how you can distinguish us. Today we're going to answer your listener question.

[Matt]

You know, I do wonder sometimes if folks are like which one's which? Because we hear that in voice memos. We see that in emails sometimes where folks are like, I'm not sure which one of y' all said it.

[Joel]

Well, they say our voices sound alike.

[Matt]

Yeah, they do.

[Joel]

And we're both.

[Matt]

I mean, I'm half Korean, so for the most part we're both white guys. Which I know you always have.

[Joel]

Run of the mill.

[Matt]

Yeah, okay. I think I said that because right before we hit record, you started singing K Pop Demon Hunter Golden Song because of the beer that we were going to enjoy during this episode. But maybe that's why me thinking about Asian stuff. It's on my mind. But I am Matt, the Asian looking one. Joel is the tall white guy.

[Joel]

The Norwegian.

[Matt]

Tall Norwegian looking guy.

[Joel]

Yes. That is us, Which I was like, just actually randomly reading about the. The nations that have the tallest people on average. Oh, that's you. Norway's up there.

[Matt]

Oh, yeah.

[Joel]

Who's number one, though? Can you guess?

[Matt]

Taller than.

[Joel]

Who's taller than Norwegians on average?

[Matt]

I truly have no idea. These aren't the kind of stats I find myself reading, Joel. New Zealand. I'm just going to.

[Joel]

Not even close.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Joel]

No, because it is a lot of Scandinavian countries. But number one, and I would have guessed is Sweden. No, they're up there.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Joel]

The Netherlands.

[Matt]

Oh, okay. A lot of top people.

[Joel]

The average height of a male in the Netherlands is over 6ft, so that's the average height. When I travel there, I fit right in. Like, I.

[Matt]

Another inches.

[Joel]

Not a freak.

[Matt]

That's true. Yeah. What's the average height of males in the U.S. isn't it five' ten?

[Joel]

I was gonna say it's probably. Yeah, five' ten. We didn't even make the top 25

[Matt]

list, so I don't know. Really? That's so surpr. Feel like, is it genetics? Because I also think there's a whole lot of diet that goes into it as well. You think about some of the poorer Asian countries, like in the 60s and 70s, as they started importing American foods like McDonald's, and all of a sudden there's more higher amounts of protein in their diet, and all of a sudden got some really tall Chinese guys that didn't exist for.

[Joel]

That's how y' all meet me.

[Matt]

Millennia, truly. But enough about this. Oh, what a tangent. We are here to help people. That's specifically what our Ask how to Money episodes are. But the listeners asking whether or not we might be overlooking. He thinks it could be a secret way to supercharge your retirement account. We'll get to that one. We're going to talk about getting a car loan versus paying cash. Another listener is debating whether or not to hire a financial advisor. He's turned off a little bit by the high cost. So we will address that and other listener questions during our episode today.

[Joel]

All right, I have a question for you before we get started, because I was not aware that there are alarm clocks. You can download that. You can essentially, if you want to wake up on time and you're not very motivated. You're the kind of person who hits the snooze button on repeat.

[Matt]

No snooze button built into the.

[Joel]

Pretty much, yeah. What if instead of hitting the snooze on repeat and to actually do what you wanted to do? Which was wake up early. It cost you money. So would you ever pretend?

[Matt]

High stakes, what's it called feels like something that Kalshee would roll out. It's like a way to parlay your earnings into accountability so that you actually get out of bed.

[Joel]

And then whole world, Truman show style can gamble on whether or not you're going to wake up on time. I foresee that in our future. But no, in this case, I think the alarm clock is called Nudge N U J which is cute name for it. And you have to, within two minutes of your alarm going off, scan the shampoo bottle in your bathroom to prove that you're actually up and out of bed.

[Matt]

Oh, that is funny.

[Joel]

I guess you could totally defeat it and put the shampoo bottle next to your bed. But then what's the point?

[Matt]

There are always ways that you can truly not do the thing you want to do, but.

[Joel]

But then you got to feel like a real loser. Like, I downloaded this alarm, I'm incentivizing myself to wake up and I've sunk to that low that I'm going to put the shampoo next to my bed.

[Matt]

Accountability goes a long way. I, I'm all for it. Because if you think about, if you're having a tough time getting up, I'm imagining this, having all sorts of problems down the road. Right. Like you're late for work and so then you're speeding and all of a sudden you got a speeding ticket and you're thinking, I should have just woken up earlier. Should have paid for the $5 app or, or put however much money on the line that I was willing to be. To be parted with. So yeah, I'm for it. And if that's what you, if that's what you want, if that's what you need in order to, or even showing up to work on time.

[Joel]

Yeah. Right.

[Matt]

I could see a situation where if you aren't. Yeah. If you're late, then oh yeah, he doesn't really show up on time. Oh, he, you know, you're thinking of,

[Joel]

worst case scenario, he's up for a raise this year.

[Matt]

But like he missed that meeting.

[Joel]

And I was just thinking someone wants to get up and do some push ups and reading a book before they go to work or something. But you're thinking about like, oh, they're going to be late. Like they're not.

[Matt]

Oh yeah.

[Joel]

I don't know.

[Matt]

I feel like a lot of people are thinking through flying by the seat of their pants. Yeah. Well, if they're just not getting into Work. I'm thinking about their careers, buddy.

[Joel]

Okay, yeah.

[Listener Matt from Indy]

All right.

[Joel]

Well, yeah, I think it's big stakes here.

[Matt]

Not just doing some push ups.

[Joel]

Maybe we'll link to this alarm clock in the, in the show notes if you find yourself, like, maybe that was your goal at the beginning of the year. It was like, I'm going to wake up earlier, I'm going to give myself some time with my coffee to like wake up slowly and gosh, I just have not, I have not done it. Your little morning ritual, I'm up 30 seconds before the kids are up or whatever. Maybe this alarm clock and putting something on the line. Actually, I saw that some people were putting donations to a nonprofit they cared about on the line.

[Matt]

Okay. So I've heard about that. Not in an alarm clock, but as far as like a third party site where you tell somebody that you're gonna do this thing and they have the password, so then they do it and then it's up to them whether or not they actually allow you to cancel it or whether or not you're being truthful to them.

[Joel]

It makes me think because then you're

[Matt]

lying to someone that you trust, then you really feel like a dirtbag. Sure.

[Joel]

Some of our friends are doing a fitness challenge where I think they put money in and there's a retreat. And so, like, it's this high stakes endeavor and it's basically like, how much of a dummy do you feel like if you're going on this trip at the end and you didn't make any progress, like, you made no gains. And so I think when you have skin in the game, as is true with basically everything in life, you're just more likely to like. I haven't even really mentioned this, but I signed up for a team triathlon with some buddies recently. I was shocked at how much it costs. Like, it's almost 200 bucks a person just to do one leg of this triathlon. I was like, oh, my God. Well, I guess I'm going to take this seriously. Like, yeah, I'm doing the bike portion. I was like, I guess I got to get on my bike. You start riding. So it's. I think this is just another example of when putting some money on the line that you could lose is going to maybe help you, you know, embark on the behavior that you want to, you want to engage in.

[Matt]

I'm all for it. It makes so much sense. And we've talked about this before from a, even from a gym standpoint. Right. Because some folks aren't going to Be able to do the at home gym thing. We've talked with our buddy down the and he says, you know what, the ability, like the fact that they are drafting that out of my off my credit card or whatever every single month means that I show up. So yeah. As a tool to reach your goals, I 100% love it. There's also a small, if I think a little bit about it, like for another second, I don't like the fact that from a. So from a numbers and dollar standpoint attacking your goals, I love it. But from a physiological standpoint, you should be waking up pretty easily if you get enough sleep. Right. Like after however long it is that you much sleep you need. Like your body should be kind of naturally waking up. And if you have to, I'm getting better at that.

[Joel]

But I don't know. A lot of people have sleep troubles too. Like man, Emily's been sleeping so poorly. She just like she'll sleep for four hours and she'll wake up and she can't go back to sleep.

[Matt]

And so I think, oh my gosh, that sounds awful.

[Joel]

Not everybody sleeps as well.

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean no judgment. Obviously there's a whole lot of factors that go into that, but I don't know if you're not giving yourself enough. The older I get, the more I'm trying to. Maybe that's should be a goal of mine. Maybe I'll find some other app to make sure that I'm going to sleep on time in order to wake up with my regular alarm clock on my. On my iPhone. But cool Nudge. The Scandinavian spelled alarm clock. Nuj Is that what you said?

[Joel]

N U J. Yeah.

[Matt]

Sounds very Scandinavian.

[Joel]

It does. Or just everything is like abbreviated and spelled spelled differently, right?

[Matt]

That is true. All right. The beer that you and I are enjoying today, I think is called Satisfied, which is a lager by Piedmont Brewing Company, which or Piedmont Brewery. And we've had their beers before. Did you know that? You recognize that name?

[Joel]

Nope. We've had a lot of beers on the show.

[Matt]

We've had a ton of beers. This one, we've been to this brewery.

[Joel]

Really?

[Listener Matt from Indy]

Uh huh.

[Joel]

I don't remember that either.

[Matt]

I'm pretty sure this is the brewery.

[Joel]

And I don't think it's because I drank too much.

[Matt]

Our families were with us. This is the spot we went to after we went to Disney on Ice and saw a couple how to money listeners that were out there skating.

[Joel]

That was so fun. And that brewery was awesome.

[Matt]

It was. And we bought a bunch of pinball

[Joel]

machines down in the basement.

[Matt]

It was such a cool spot.

[Joel]

I forgot that was the name of it.

[Matt]

I think that's these guys. I saw them there, said Macon.

[Joel]

Anyway, let's get to listener questions and if you have a money question please, please do send it our way. We love to hear your questions. We love to take them on the show and it helps hopefully not just you. Hopefully it helps you but also helps the how to money community. Just go to howtomoney.com ask for instructions for that. And Matt, let's talk about now the million dollar question. It can actually be a very costly question on whether or not a financial advisor makes sense. What are the pros and cons?

[Listener Matt from Indy]

Hi guys. Matt from Indy here. Quick question for you all. How do you all go about thinking about the costs and benefits of a financial advisor? My wife and I are both professionals and are thinking of starting a family soon. At the same time we have been debating working with a financial advisor. We've gotten a quote from what seems like a great fee only fiduciary advisory that comes highly recommended but are balking at the price. What kind of additional benefits do you think an advisor like this can add and what is a reasonable price to pay? Thanks.

[Matt]

All right, Joel, I feel like we have to cut to all the answers really quick because we kind of dallied during the beginning of this episode long

[Joel]

about the alarm clock.

[Matt]

Well, I think it's worth kicking off this whole conversation by mentioning a resource on our website, howtomoney.com advisor because Matt, you are getting quotes from a fee only fiduciary, which is the only way to go. But not everyone knows that. And so if you are out there listening and you're trying to figure out how to navigate this space, the advisors listed there, you'll get matched with some folks who are pre vetted who meet the strongest standards. So that being said, hiring an advisor is not for everyone as we're going to discuss here. But if you are going to hire one, we would absolutely recommend to head to again howtomoney.com advisor and we'll link in the show notes too. For this episode we'll make sure to link to some good resources that essentially kind of explain when you might want to consider a financial advisor.

[Joel]

I mean a lot of people ask that question, right? Is an advisor worth it for me? And the truth is maybe we'll get to a lot of the details here, but if you hire the wrong advisor or the one who works under the wrong model, you could be up the creek without a paddle you could find yourself in a much worse position in terms of fees and products being sold to you by hiring an advisor who doesn't work on a fiduciary fee only model. So I'm glad Matt's starting at least with that presumption and all. People who are interested in getting a financial advisor who are curious about it should start with that assumption as well.

[Matt]

Yeah, step one, make sure you got

[Joel]

a fiduciary and then ask the question, well, should I hire this person? So we're going to do our best to offer a nuanced take here. We're of the firm opinion that in the earliest days of wealth building there's essentially zero reason to have an advisor. And that's because the limited dollars that you have should just be thrust into retirement accounts, right? Not into an advisor's hands. You don't really need advice in the first five years, often the first 10 years of your pulling off your financial game plan to build a nest egg for retirement, to save for medium term goals. You need to do the basics in order to achieve a critical mass of money. That's the whole goal in the beginning. And if you're funneling money off to someone to give you advice when you don't actually need it, you're wasting some of those critical dollars that could be going to build your net worth. And at the same time, advisors, they're just not keen on working with people who don't have much money to begin with. So it's actually kind of a win win. You avoid the advisor who's not interested in working with you yet, you might find one that will take your money. But diying is so important to save on fees and to ensure that, that you're learning the ropes, which will help you hire the right advisor in the future if you're so inclined.

[Matt]

That's right, yeah. Going back to folks who are early on in their wealth building journey though, just because, let's say you've maybe advanced a little bit, right? Like just because you've got 300,000, 500,000, even a million dollars in your portfolio in your nest egg, it does not mean you absolutely need an advisor either. That's not like once you get past a certain point, then all of a sudden you got to be meeting with a financial advisor, although the likelihood does increase. But I think it's worth asking what is it that the financial advisor is providing there for you? Because the goal is not to find an advisor who can, quote, beat the market. If you are talking to somebody who's Saying that they can do that, I would be walking the other direction.

[Joel]

Yeah. Maybe running.

[Matt]

Yeah. Yep. Just do not return the calls, Mark, as spam. I would say the biggest reason that you should consider hiring an advisor is specifically as your net worth grows, is if you need guidance. If you're looking for somebody, they're on, like, as a coach on, like, at your side. And, Matt, you mentioned having kids soon. I do wonder if you might be potentially getting a little bit nervous. Right. You're thinking, okay, we're looking to grow our family. And if that's the case, I would. Well, regardless, it can be good to have a coach at your side. It can be good to have some accountability. Like, we were talking about accountability earlier, Right. Like getting somebody to stick with the plan that you've identified for yourself outside of that. And we'll come back to maybe coaching here in a second. I want to kind of touch on the kids thing because congrats. You know, you are talking about growing your family. I'm super excited there for you. I also don't want you to overthink having kids because we live in such an age where it's just amazing that we can have so much control and predictability over so many different aspects of our lives. Right. I think that's amazing, but at the same time, I think that could lead to, like, an uncertainty of moving forward with some things that we're less familiar with unless there's a professional who can, like, green light it. You know what I'm saying?

[Joel]

We've kind of over professionalized a lot of things in our culture.

[Matt]

A lot of things. And when you think about, I mean, even to, like, our parents generation, but certainly like our grandparents generation and then literally every generation before that, this is not something that was, like, really professionalized. And yes, like, we've come a long way as a culture from a lifestyle standpoint. Cost of just. There's so many different advances that come from being a little bit smarter. I just want to encourage you, Matt, that you. Y' all got this right? Like, I don't want you to be too concerned and feel like that someone has to basically sign off on this plan if you are very excited about growing your family.

[Joel]

You ever had, like, an issue, Matt, and you're talking to someone and they're like, you know, the fact that you're asking the question says a lot that you're pretty sure we've said that before on the podcast.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Like. Like, if you go to someone with a question about your parenting or something like that, like, which is at least where I'm at the stage of life I'm at. I have a lot of questions about my parenting. Like, I want to make sure I'm being a good parent.

[Matt]

Joel, the fact that you're even asking the question, it means I'm an awesome

[Joel]

parent to begin with. Right, Matt? Yeah, And I think, like, that's not 100% true, but there is a lot of truth to that. The fact that you're asking the question, you're listening to this podcast like you, you do have.

[Matt]

Do you think it's okay if I leave my 5 year old at home by himself for 5 hours at a time in a hot car for a few. Just the fact that you're asking the question means that you're thinking about it, buddy.

[Ad Voice]

That's right.

[Joel]

See, that's the limit. Right? Those are the limits of that example.

[Matt]

No, I hear what you're saying though. Like, like they're like you're talking about an awareness to the different stages of life that we move through and in this case having kids, maybe, you know, dialing back from two incomes to one income.

[Joel]

Well, and just a curiosity and a knowledge that Matt already has that says, hey, you're at a place where you, you know enough. Like, do you know enough just to be dangerous? Like, or do you know enough to where you really know what you're doing? And how long you've kind of been at this game partially determines that. And you mentioned kind of the coaching aspect of an advisor. I think that's a really important one to mention because when you look at some studies, Matt, some have found that DIY investors perform worse overall because they tend to buy and sell erratically. But then you also actually look at some of the data about professional stock pickers and you find the exact same thing. That the reason the professional stock pickers tend to underperform the market is because they buy and sell erratically, like on a whim. They might even be able to identify stocks, individual stocks that are going to be higher performing, but they get in and out at the wrong times. And so you and I, Matt, I think what this reveals and reflects is that dollar cost averaging is your friend. And we talk about dollar cost averaging regularly on the show, right? Just buying regularly, every paycheck, no matter what, every month. If you're sticking into your Roth, ira, whatever, just like clockwork, just buying and doing the thing on the reg, and then staying the course in turbulent times. Just saying, I know my strategy. I'm not making changes. Even though the stock market's acting erratically. But I guess it's one thing to hear us say that and it's another to see your portfolio decline by 30% or something like that. That can feel harrowing. If you know yourself and you believe that you'd have a hard time sticking to the DIY plan, you may be aligned with some of those DIY investors who underperform because they're more likely to make changes at an inopportune time. The cost of an advisor might pale in comparison to the price of you not hiring one. But if you're like, no, I've listened to the boys for a while, dollar cost averaging, staying the course, I'm all for it, then maybe an advisor is less necessary for you.

[Matt]

Yeah, and it depends too.

[Joel]

Like you can look at your history

[Matt]

and remind yourself what you are capable of. If you look back at tariffs of last spring and saw that as a buying opportunity or just held the course. If you look back at the pandemic and saw that as yet another opportunity to back up the truck and completely load up on stocks, well, okay, you pass like you have proved to yourself.

[Joel]

Or just the year of 2022, right, where the market was down 20%.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. If you, if you can see 12 month declines and not change your plan, then, then you pass. But so that's certainly a service that financial advisors can offer. But you know, going to the certain knowledge base that you've, you've built up, there is a certain amount of expertise at your point paying for as well. With a financial advisor, can you tend to the wealth that you've built up? Do you know how to avoid unnecessary taxes when the time does come for you to draw down on your investments, can you put together a smart drawdown strategy? Do you know which accounts to draw from first? These are the kinds of conversations where an advisor can be incredibly helpful. Roth conversions, tax loss harvesting. These are all things that come to mind that may not be on folks radars. But an advisor could be looking for smart ways to reduce your tax burden while you are growing your wealth. These are the things that come up from time to time here on the show that we'll talk about. But things do get more complex and in the world of personal finance, as your net worth increases, smart tax planning becomes more and more important because the

[Joel]

numbers get bigger and the stakes are higher. And when you're talking about well, reducing potential RMDs down the road in retirement, well, does that mean I need to start making conversions now? What about like which accounts do I get from, for the right tax deduction and should I be batching or not? I mean, the questions do get more complex, especially as you get closer to the drawdown phase and as your, as your nest egg gets bigger. For sure, amassing the money is necessary, but it's, it's often much simpler. Right, than, than some of the, the planning elements you're going to encounter down the road. So I guess if I were to boil it down, Matt, I'd say if you're on the front end of your journey, it's probably too soon to hire an advisor. Reassess down the road. If you start to feel out of your league when the financial decisions you're encountering feel more high stakes, when you're like, feeling more nervous, right, About a move or two or three that you need to make, or if you have just big questions about your financial future, then you might want to pursue that advisor relationship. What's a reasonable cost? Matt alluded to that. That's hard to say. I mean, we, we prefer the flat fee or the hourly fee model. You might be talking about 3, 5, $8,000 a year, depending on your complexity. Which again, is why you don't want to hire an advisor too soon. Because that's a lot of money that's not going into your investment account.

[Matt]

Big old chunk of money.

[Joel]

Yeah. Hourly rates. You can hire someone, you know by the hour. Oftentimes if they're putting together a comprehensive financial plan, that's going to be expensive. But then you might be able to say, hey, can I just, you know, paying you for five hours a year or three hours a quarter or something like that. And hourly rates are often in the $250 range. But I would just say, you know, expect to pay more in the beginning as you, as you get onboarded. And then even if you do choose to hire an advisor, don't stop learning on your own because it's still your money. And yes, you want to hire an advisor who is well reviewed, who knows what they're doing, who can be a big help to you. But there's, there's still no time, I don't think, where you kind of step completely out of the equation and you stop paying attention to your own finances.

[Matt]

That's right. But, buddy, we got more to get to. We're going to talk about Trump accounts, we're going to talk about minivans, all that and more right after this.

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[Joel]

We're going to hit the road this summer and we're going to travel slow. We're going to take the scenic route. I'm a big fan of that slow stateside travel with my family. It just reminds me that we're building something worth protecting and life insurance is a part of that plan planning ahead process. So here's my suggestion. Get life insurance checked off your to do list in minutes with policygenius so you can make those memories while knowing your family is protected.

[Matt]

That's right. PolicyGenius is an online insurance marketplace that allows you to compare quotes from some of America's top insurers side by side for free. I love doing stuff for free, Joel. They also help you to find your most affordable policy that meets your needs. They're able to answer your questions, they handle the paperwork and they advocate for you throughout the entire process. This is what has earned Policygenius all those five star reviews.

[Joel]

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[Matt]

That's policygenius.com let's say you've always wanted to take a spontaneous trip to the Caribbean. Well, here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money? Like treating yourself to something special or

[Joel]

spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one man. So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 19 million customers [e-mail] not an empower client, paid or sponsored. All right, we're back from the break. Time to get to a question now about arbitrage when buying a car.

[Listener Travis]

Hello, Matt and Joel, this is Travis calling from Westminster, Maryland. Again. My wife and I are looking at a minivan and we were wondering what kind of metrics we should use when deciding if we should pay cash for the vehicle or if we should take an auto loan. Out for a little bit of background. Currently, the dealership is offering 1.9% financing, and we're earning a little over 3% on our savings. I think basically after taxes, it's pretty close to a wash. Are there any other sort of metrics we should be concerned with? Thanks.

[Matt]

Sounds like Travis is wised up to the wonderful world of minivans.

[Ad Voice]

Joel.

[Joel]

Well, I mean, if you were like a dictator, would you. Would you enforce a one minivan per family requirement?

[Matt]

Matt, I would not be a dictator. I give everyone the liberty to make the decisions that they think are best for them and their family. But I would try to convince everybody that minivans are the absolute best because of how comfortable they are, how much room there is for all your stuff, for all your friends. They get pretty good gas mileage if you get the hybrid version, if you get the Sienna. So if you don't like any of those things, if you don't like room for your stuff, if you don't like riding with your friends, if you then

[Joel]

go with a smart car.

[Matt]

Yeah. Or get you a motorcycle or something like that. But if you value all those things, then who doesn't? Including the automatic doors, man. Oh, my gosh.

[Joel]

And if you value looking cool, get a minivan. They're cooler than you think. Rethink the minivan.

[Matt]

I'll tell you what. If you get a gray Odyssey, everyone waves at you. You know why? Because everyone thinks that you are somebody else's, like their other friend.

[Joel]

There's just so many of them. Yeah.

[Matt]

That's 100% accurate.

[Joel]

Really?

[Matt]

All the gray Honda Odyssey owners out there are like. That's right.

[Joel]

Unite.

[Matt]

I told Kate that every time of sorts, every time I see a great Odyssey, I'm going to do like the two fingered Jeep Wave.

[Joel]

Because.

[Matt]

Because it does feel like some really lame generic club that we're all a part of. It does. Yeah, that's true.

[Joel]

Well, at the heart of this question, Matt, we're talking about arbitrage, right, Trav?

[Matt]

That's what Travis, what should I do with this money?

[Listener Matt from Indy]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Yeah. And so, hey, should I take out a low interest loan? Well, those are more rare these days, so it's actually more attractive than it used to be. A 1.9% loan feels like a perk. Right. And it allows you to keep your cash in the bank, allowing you to earn more on money that you've just got stashed in a high yield savings account. So you would be. Travis would be harnessing the power of the gap between what he's being charged to borrow money and what he can earn on the cash that he keeps on the sidelines. Also, and this is something that doesn't get talked about a lot in personal finance, liquidity is a really important factor to consider and there's power in having liquid cash on hand. So I think those are two helpful perks. One, borrowing cash at a submarket rate and then two, having the liquidity and being able to essentially make money while not paying cash for this and taking out the loan. And then if savings rates go down the road, you can always deploy your cash later and pay off the rest of the loan. So that's a positive, I would say, for Travis and well worth considering. There are some similarities to his proposal and why we feel strongly about most people not paying down a mortgage with a super low rate as quickly as possible because there's just often better things you can do with the money.

[Matt]

Yeah, this kind of makes me think about how we use credit cards. You have the cash on hand, but instead you are choosing to use use a more advantageous method of payment that's going to earn you additional perks. That's kind of like what's going on here. But I think one really important question to ask yourself is, are you going to be tempted to spend more money? Are you going to be tempted to upgrade? Would you buy the same van whether or not you took out a loan? And we're just looking at the payments because, you know when you have these payments, when you're stretching this purchase out into years, well, it can make it easier to upgrade your choice. And the behavioral reality for many car buyers is more akin to like a. Almost like a balance transfer credit card. Right. The lower their interest rate, which is obviously an inherently good thing. But instead of paying the balance off and getting aggressive and attacking it before the promotional period ends, a lot of times you end up racking up more overall debt because now you got two cards and they haven't changed their actual underlying spending habits. We certainly want you to avoid that. On another note too, makes me think about the fact he's talking about getting this loan from a dealership. He's looking at getting a new minivan. I would even be tempted potentially used from a deal. Potentially used, absolutely. If so, then great. But man, I would absolutely want to make sure you're just paying a premium. If you're buying new, you're taking a massive depreciation hit anywhere between 30 to 50% depending on the specific model of minivan that you're considering.

[Joel]

And you and I typically advise against that unless you're planning to own the car for 10 years. Unless you have the cash to pay for it and are going to own it for a long time.

[Matt]

And even still would I do it? I never have.

[Joel]

It's still not the most ideal thing to do.

[Matt]

It feels less egregious than paying, you know, gosh. Yeah, like hemorrhaging 50% of the value of a Pacifica from, you know, five years later. If were you to sell that, I would rather pick it up at 50% less.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

As a five year old vehicle.

[Joel]

In some ways, I guess like Travis, and a lot of people could find themselves making this argument on a lot of different products. Well, I've got the cash on hand, but I'm going to do the buy now, pay later. I'm going to do the pay in four just because it lessens the sting of the purchase that I'm making. Then you could find yourself doing something not so great with the money that you were supposed to put towards that item. I think what we're getting at here is that this could be a slippery slope, Travis. If you're saving hundreds of dollars and you're investing that money, you could potentially even grow this gap even more, making this a sick arbitrage play. Right. But even I like that. Yeah. And even just keeping the cash on hand can seem like a no brainer. But I guess it's important to mention that having loads of cash on hand with no specific purpose because you saved it up to buy the car, but now you're not using it to actually buy the car can increase what's known as the wealth effect, which makes you feel richer than you really are. Because your car note is not at the forefront of your mind. When you check your bank balance and you're like, I'm rich, I'm doing great. I've got tons of cash on hand.

[Matt]

But you're not accounting for all the. Yeah.

[Joel]

For the new debt that's in your

[Matt]

life that's gonna be with you for

[Joel]

the next three, four, five years, hopefully not too, too long. And so I guess we just want to make you aware of this potential. I mean, from a pure dollars and cents perspective, it's a smart arbitrage play. But from a human behavior standpoint, you got to ask yourself these questions and you got to treat the cash that you keep on hand if you were to take this loan as sacrosanct if you opt to go this route. Matt, I've only bought one new car in my life is when I got the Nissan Leaf back when there was a federal and estate tax credit which essentially brought the price of the vehicle down to like 15 grand for a brand new car.

[Matt]

Pretty sure they were paying you. Yeah, it was pretty much that same.

[Joel]

And honestly they should have because the range was like pretty crappy and it wasn't the nicest car in the world. But I did this because on top of the price I paid, it was zero percent for like five years. And so being the savvy financially personal finance minded person who wants to make progress with my money, I was like 0%. This is great. Why not? Why would I not do this? And the older I get, the more I'm like, oh man, that could have gone wrong for me if I wasn't paying close attention. I think there's just all these ways we can convince ourselves, oh, cheap money. Let me grab this. When we might end up making other decisions that actually upend or make that not such a great decision in the long run.

[Matt]

Yep, yep, I get it. Yeah. See that as like an automatic way to kind of beef up your emergency fund a little bit. Just like store that away and all of a sudden your new floor. Oh, you know we used to always say three and a half, four months is fin. No. Now in reality after moving that cash over, parking it there, it looks like five to six months. Make sure you keep it there. Bottom line, I don't think for me personally like I'm, I'm trying to put myself in this situation. I don't think I would do it because so what he said, he said that after taxes, because you have to pay, you pay taxes on interest that you earn from a high yield savings. He said he think it would be about a wash because it was like 1.9 versus 3 something. And if I'm looking at that kind of spread, well there's, according to him, there isn't much of a spread. I don't think I would do it. But given the fact that you pointed out liquidity, if you have a need for liquidity, that's a checkbox on the side of. Okay, maybe we should consider this. If you are looking at the potential to get a deal with, you know, if it's at a dealership, sometimes they'll remove some of the different dealer fees if you finance with them.

[Joel]

That's true.

[Matt]

That is another reason to consider doing this. But then even beyond that, not just saving that money, but if I then have the ability to, certainly if I was looking at a tax advantaged retirement account, if that had gave me the ability to then do that and I otherwise wouldn't. Oh, I would 100% be doing that because you've got the potential for that to earn much more than 3%. It's not guaranteed, but it's more likely to happen than not sort of situation.

[Joel]

You'd have to have extra cash on hand beyond the amount so that you could actually invest it and also have significant savings on hand for other needs.

[Matt]

Yeah, and so I guess all of those additional reasons combined, those are some of the reasons why I would consider doing this as opposed to messing going through the hassle of dealing with the dealership. If those weren't factors, I would just be paying cash for it personally.

[Joel]

All right, let's talk Matt about Trump accounts because one listener thinks we might be a little off in our analysis.

[Listener Nick]

Hey Joel and Matt, Nick here from the Philly area. Really enjoyed the recent episode where you guys talked about the Trump accounts and why you're not big fans compared to 529s or utmas. I actually agree with the main point. For most families, these are cleaner and more flexible tools for their intended purposes compared to what's being offered. Just to frame where I'm coming from, in our case, we have two and a half kids, third one's on the way. We're not really considering a 529 because it feels a bit pigeonholed for education. We have no idea if our kids, the oldest being four, will even be headed to college. And while the Roth rollover option is nice, it still feels pretty limited in overall amounts. On the flip side, compared to an UTMA or ugma, we'd probably lean towards just doing a taxable account in our names at this point and then transferring the assets to our child at a later age when we choose. That gives us more control and potentially some tax advantages too, like transferring shares when they're in a low or even 0% capital gains bracket and handing that cost basis off to them. But I wanted to run a specific strategy by you and see if I'm thinking about this the right way. Instead of using the Trump account as a general savings vehicle, what about treating it purely as a long term retirement optimization play for a kid? If you fully fund it annually, say the current annual limit of 5k from birth to age 18, and then let it grow, you might end up somewhere around 140,000. As I understand it, the current structure is that it converts to a traditional IRA at the age 18. From there, there would be a great opportunity to convert it over into a Roth IRA early in the kids working years when their income and tax bracket are really low. At that point you're essentially front loading a large amount of Roth space very early in life, not based at all on income. And if needed, the parents could even help subsidize the tax hit on those conversions while the kid is in a low tax bracket or even college with conservative growth that could potentially turn into an 8 million dollar tax free Roth IRA by retirement age of 65, which seems like a pretty unique advantage compared to starting Roth contributions later. So I guess my question is what are the flaws or risks or constraints that I'm missing in this option or opportunity? Or is this one of those niche cases where this account might actually make sense? Appreciate all you guys do. Big fan of the show. If you're ever in the Philly area, check out Sons of Barley Tanner Brewing, Mechanical Brewery or Farm Truck Brewery. They're all great options in South Jersey. Thanks again.

[Matt]

All right, Joel, let's revisit the Trump accounts. Nick, so there towards the end, you're talking about whether or not this is sort of a niche case and whether or not this makes sense. Like, I will totally admit that were you to follow what you have just laid out for us, it absolutely works. It's not like it's some sort of like hidden backdoor, special sort of method. I think ultimately the answer we're going to probably find our way to is going to be whether or not that's something that you actually want to do

[Joel]

or that most people want to consider. He's right. I guess there's. When you, for average people who want to save little bits for their kids for the future, this is like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight. And I just think for most people this is not going to be something

[Matt]

they're interested in, but it's 100% possible.

[Joel]

But when it comes to the fundamentals, like, he's so right. This is very possible and this could be an effective way to use his account if your goal is to save $8 million for your kids.

[Matt]

And that's why, I mean like, if, like theoretically is this possible? Absolutely. Just like in the same way, like we can crunch numbers and look at, I mean there's, there's a whole lot of like playing fun with numbers that we can do that could point to just incredible sums of money that don't even seem allowable. Especially, I mean, honestly, especially beyond sort of like what it was that we have had available to us. And I'm specifically thinking about the 529, I'm with you. A. It's limited and there's just certain restrictions that it has that has kept us from being as big of proponents for it. Especially if you think that your, your kids are not likely to go to college or even to a private school. If that was me, I would be reluctant to stick much money in, except now for the ability to turn that money into Roth IRA money. That change made it far less perilous to toss at least just a little bit of money into a 529 every single year. So here's some numbers. Even if you put in $75 a month, that would net your kids $36,500, which is a little bit more than the Roth limit of what you could convert. That's over 18 years though at an 8% rate of return. It's not much to part with. And it puts you in a sweet spot to be able to pull that definitely Roth maneuver from that going from that 529 to that Roth IRA were they to not end up going to college.

[Joel]

So yeah, we are bigger fans of

[Matt]

529 at this point.

[Joel]

75 bucks a month sounds like for a lot of families that's pretty doable, right? Whereas $5,000 a year, that's just a much, much bigger expense that most people won't be able to afford to save and invest on their kids behalf.

[Matt]

But theoretically possible.

[Joel]

But theoretically possible. So even just a little bit, we would say towards the 529 could go a long way. Setting you up for, and setting your kids up for the ability to have Roth dollars. Right. Without jumping through a bunch of extra hoops or setting aside ridiculous sums of money that might be hard to come by. So much depends on what you're trying to achieve though, right? Because that 529 would then give your kid, your child close to a million dollars by age 65, which is also a lot of money. A million dollars in tax free Roth funds.

[Matt]

That's amazing.

[Joel]

That's pretty sick without them really having to lift a finger. But it sounds like you want them to have a lot more than that, Nick. So if that's the case, if you do have this gargantuan goal of generational wealth for your family and for your children. You make a solid point about the potential for some families to utilize these new trump accounts to save and invest a lot for far off retirement savings for their children. I just think most parents aren't super concerned with helping their kids amass $8 million. Six to seven decades from now. But if that is a top priority, if let's say you're in money gear seven and you've crushed it for your own retirement and you're like, I've got three kids. What'd he say? Three kids. He's on number three. And you're like, I've got an extra 15 grand a year that I'd be thrilled to stick into there for their future and then I'm also going to help them pay the tax down the road. Yeah, like you can help them have essentially a worry free retirement without them having to do a thing. Especially when you think about just all that money being essentially avoiding tax by converting it in those years, Matt, where they're making so little money that their tax rate is pretty insignificant and the pile of money is fairly small at that point. A lot of the growth that's going to occur is in the decades post conversion.

[Matt]

Yeah, exactly. Well, in fact not all 18 year olds have a job. So the way that you're avoiding tax is the fact that they've got their standard deduction and you've got the ability to fill that thing up. Even if they have a part time job, they may not be completely filling that up. And so he was talking about potentially even helping them out a little bit when it comes to the taxes. As you make that conversion of the growth of the Trump account funds to a Roth, that's not necessarily going to be a large amount of money. If you do this in phases, if you essentially ladder the conversion, that's something that is not that again from a technical standpoint it's not that big of a lift. And if you are in the position to have helped them to achieve this to begin with, then you certainly should be in a position to, to be able to help them with the taxes down the road.

[Joel]

And I guess the biggest rub for you and me is what, like is that truly a goal that you have and is that something you desperately want to help your kids achieve? Because for, for you and I, we want to like teach our kids how to fish and it doesn't mean that we don't want to offer aid in some ways for like are we going to help them save a little bit for potential future costs of college? Yes. Like are we like willing to like, I don't know, maybe decades down the road I might be giving my kids money like right up to the gift tax exclusion occasionally, sometimes here or there if I feel so inclined. I guess I just have zero desire to save for their retirement on their

[Matt]

Behalf retirement feels different.

[Joel]

It feels really different.

[Matt]

It feels really like something that they should be. Yeah, that they should be. We talked earlier about skin in the game. Like I want my kids don't have any skin in the game if you've completely done it for them.

[Joel]

I want my kids to learn like the, the trade offs of, of money and if they get money, it's kind of like becoming a child star. Matt. Like there's something it does to your, your brain, to your psyche.

[Matt]

Absolutely.

[Joel]

We've like what child not gonna be too well adjusted? No, no.

[Matt]

Like quote unquote regular life. Right.

[Joel]

And so I guess from a just like running the number standpoint, Nick is 100% right on this. But I guess like what do you want to convey to your kids and do you want to do this for them instead of giving them the tools, the wisdom, the know how and maybe a financial leg up on occasion when it feels truly necessary. That would be, I guess more of my approach.

[Matt]

Totally agree. Yeah, it's less because there's two questions here. Then once you know that this is something you can do. I feel like there's two questions, right? There's the do I have enough money to be able to pull this off? And so for some folks, they're stopping right there because they're like, nope. There's other stuff I want to do. I want to be able to first of all save for my retirement. But there's, I want to buy this thing. I want us to be able to go here, we're going to buy this house, we're going to do this membership. Right.

[Joel]

Family vacation.

[Matt]

Essentially a limited amount of resources causes you to say no. But then beyond that, let's say the answer to that is yes. Well then the question is, is this what's best for the kid? Do I want to set them up for a life of leisure? And essentially I think what we're saying here is that we think that there are certain lessons that you learn from having a part time job when you are in high school. You learn how to manage your time a little bit. There's something that you learn from studying hard when you're in college and realizing that oh, my grades, my degree, me getting a job is dependent on the sacrifices I make when I want to go party with my friends instead, oh, now we're married. The lessons that you learn by skimping a little bit and choosing not to go on so and so whatever trip with some friends is what allows you to pay cash for a car or to be able to Save up enough for a down payment. And a lot of times it's tough to anchor some of those sacrifices to these real life things that you experience and realize that you want as especially, especially as a young adult. This actually makes me think of Kate and I got, we got married and we saved up for a down payment. Her brother, her younger brother. So he's, I think he's about six years younger than me, but he came to our first house and helped us kind of fix it up. And I remember him saying, oh my gosh, y' all have like a real house. And at that point in time, he was still in college, but for him, he was able to connect the dots and to see that, oh, wow, like this is a real. This is something that's totally possible. But what am I take, what steps am I taking now to ensure that this is something that I'm going to be able to achieve a few years after college? Right. And so it's connecting those dots, it's anchoring the sacrifice and the trade offs that you have to make in life to the kind of life that you end up living down the road. And that's the thing that you are skipping, right. Like, it's like a shortcut. You're missing that entire life lesson. And it's not a singular life lesson, it's continual. That's the biggest question, I think, when it comes to whether or not you set aside a few thousand, even a few hundred here, month to month, in order to even set aside a million dollars for your kids.

[Listener Nick]

That, that's.

[Matt]

I know by the time our kids are older, million dollars isn't going to be what it is today.

[Joel]

Sure.

[Matt]

But it's still a lot of money.

[Joel]

It's going to be a quaint amount, I think. You wouldn't artificially impose dramatic hurdles for your kids to overcome just so they can learn lessons. Right. But you also don't want to grease the wheels so much to where they're like, oh, dad's safe for retirement. For me, I don't have to worry about that. Yeah.

[Matt]

If you've always got that in the back of your mind, it does something different.

[Joel]

At least that's my assumption. I don't want to criticize or say that this isn't the way that you should go, Nick. I think this is just kind of our bias. Like, I think back, Matt, to my first car. I worked at a fast food restaurant, $5.15 an hour. After, after high school, I'd walk across the street and I'd work there for a Few hours, two or three nights a week. And I amassed enough to pay cash for my first car. I bought it with money that I earned and I saved. And I saw some of my friends around me. Their parents bought them really nice cars

[Matt]

and they're off going to the movies.

[Joel]

Yes.

[Matt]

They ain't working.

[Joel]

And I'm not gonna lie.

[Matt]

They're coming by the fast food, buying food from you, and you're back behind the counter like, can I take your order?

[Joel]

Was I? Oh, I looked like a loser. Right. And. And I'm not gonna lie. I was jealous.

[Matt]

Well, it wasn't because you're working.

[Joel]

I was a loser for other reasons. But, like it, I was jealous. Right. I wished at that point in time that someone had bought me a car. But I realized now with hindsight, that that was the best thing that could have happened to me. Yeah, that was a really good thing for me. One other random caveat I want to throw in here, too, is that when your kids turn 18, they'll have access. They'll have the reins of this account, and they can upend all your plans, Nick. And they can be like, daddy, put all this money in here. He says it's gonna be worth $8 million someday. Not if I cash it out right now.

[Matt]

I want some of it right now. Yeah. And so you've got less than 18 years to impart all of these life lessons to brainwash them that are really hard to do. So I'm not saying to Nick and everyone else out there that you should not do this. I'm just saying it is, I think, more difficult to raise a well adjusted, financially savvy young human being to launch out into the world if they know that there is a pot of gold just sitting there waiting on them 100%.

[Joel]

All right, we got a few more questions to get to Matt, including traveling abroad and saving on cell phones. We'll get to that and more right after this.

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[Matt]

Let's say you've always wanted to take a spontaneous trip to the Caribbean. Well, here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that with empower you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money like treating yourself to something special or

[Joel]

spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one? Man. So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 19 million customers [e-mail] not an Empower client, paid or sponsored Struggling

[Matt]

to see up close make it visible with Viz. VIZ is a once daily prescription eye drop to treat blurry near vision for up to 10 hours. The most common side effects that may be experienced while using VIZ include eye irritation, temporary dim or dark vision, headaches and eye redness. Talk to an eye doctor to learn if VIZ is right for you. Learn [e-mail] alright man, we are back from the break. It's time for the Facebook question of the week. This is a short one. It's from Lori. Hello friends. I will be going out of the country in a few months. Where is the best place to get an esim? I remember it being talked about a few years back, but I don't recall where to buy. Let's talk about being able to get your talk, text and data while traveling abroad.

[Joel]

I was literally just talking to a friend who travels extensively and he we were just talking about how easy it's become to travel now.

[Matt]

Wonderful.

[Joel]

It's so simple in terms of between

[Matt]

ESIMs and no foreign transaction fees on credit cards. Yeah, it's, it's a breeze.

[Joel]

Well and, and he was actually saying he was, he was in Portugal. He was like the last time I was here there was, there were no credit card terminals. You had to pay cash for everything so you had to go get money out of the atm. And now he's like it's just been in Portugal. It's tapped to pay everywhere. And so it is.

[Matt]

That is.

[Joel]

In some ways though it makes me when I read like Hemingway, it kind of makes you long for those days of the friction travel. But in some ways it's much easier in the case of cell phones and using your cell phone abroad it's so much simpler. And we'll talk about ESIMS in just a second. But I also wanted to mention that some just US based cell providers offer international plans that are quite reasonable that don't cost you a bunch of extra money. So the two I would suggest the most are Google FI and US Mobile. The plan you choose is going to determine how much data, talk and text that you get when you're overseas. Typically they're unlimited or close to it here in the US but the more expensive plans come with a pretty decent monthly allotment of data even when you're abroad. So I would look into both their offerings, which can be as low in cost as $25 to $40 a month. Not bad to get unlimited everything here in the states, plus robust overseas coverage. I think that if you travel more than, let's say four times a year, these, these plans are probably just from a ease of use standpoint and the fact that it's not costing you too much extra and it's still less than. Right. Verizon and AT&T, the big guys and you get those extra perks like that's, that's probably the direction I'd go in. I just don't travel internationally enough, Matt, to really make, make that a necessity.

[Matt]

That being said, if you're with one of the even cheaper plans like we are, well, you're just looking for an ESUM that's going to allow you to have data no matter where you go. And if that's the case, then Airlo has consistently been one of the best places to turn. And so that's Air A I R a L O. So I think it's Airalo. But you can buy as much or as little data as you want or as much as you need for whatever duration that you're going to be abroad as well. And you can look to specific country ESIMs or you can buy ones that are good for an entire region like all of Europe for instance. So yeah, it's fantastic. Totally recommend that. Keep in mind though, that WI fi is pretty ubiquitous at this point as you're traveling and so you're, you're likely going to have it where you're staying. You're going to have it probably like at restaurants and whatnot. So just remember to use that whatever you can. And don't feel like you absolutely need to get unlimited data because I mean, I think chances are that you'll, you'll probably need a far less than you think you do given all of the amount of free WI fi that's everywhere. That being said, I will say I'll take that back a little bit. I'm thinking about if you're driving, if you're doing a whole lot of traveling and you're driving, getting an ESIM is probably going to be a much better experience and product than paying for the GPS upgrade on your car because those are expensive on a day to day basis and they're not as good as the maps on Google and even Waze. Waze is in a ton of different countries as well, so keep that in mind. That being said, if you like to take the more scenic route like we've done before, Joel, then don't get the gps. Just follow your gut and follow the street signs. You know, you're talking about traveling like Hemingway did. That's. That's how he did it. And he was just kind of like, hello, chap. Like, how do you find?

[Joel]

I mean, you and I, we think. We think probably not.

[Matt]

But, like, we.

[Joel]

We think back in our early travel days were printed out directions for MapQuest, man. Oh, yeah. Hemingway was even. Even before that. And I was just reading his book A Movable Feast, and he was talking about hiking up mountains. Like, they didn't have ski lifts back in his day either. So he was talking about how strong his legs got. Cause, like, three. Three years in a row, he hiked up Swiss. The Swiss Alps and skied down. Oh, my gosh. And I'm like, that just.

[Matt]

That's awesome.

[Joel]

One, makes you sound like a baller. And two, I just kind of. I can't imagine. And traveling in that way.

[Matt]

So it was a different time, man.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But there's. I mean, I don't know. I say that because, like, literally the last trip we took, when we went to Scotland, we didn't pay for gps, and we. This is before we knew about airload, actually. This is three, four years ago.

[Joel]

Oh, it was longer than that.

[Matt]

When we went to Scotland, I think. So was it. And then we quickly ran out of our data and we were too cheap.

[Joel]

Yeah. Because we bought some through Mint Mobile, but it was not.

[Matt]

And we're like, oh, I don't want to pay for more of it. So we just bought a map at a local gas station, and that totally worked. And we got everywhere we needed to get. We didn't get lost once.

[Joel]

That's right. As far as I recall. And even if we did, like, it was minor. And honestly, that's part of the experience

[Matt]

is like, a little bit of serendipity. See what happens. See where you end up.

[Joel]

That's, like, one of my goals actually, someday, Matt, on. On more trips is to just, like, stop at more places that look interesting. Just wing it. I feel like usually I'm like, I got my sights set. We're trying to get somewhere, and I love the idea of just, like, stop pulling off at, like, flea markets and stuff like that.

[Matt]

And I just pulling off on the side of the road, that's the way to go.

[Joel]

Maybe when my kids are out of the house and it's just me and him and, like, we can be a little more serendipity. Serendipitous. I'll partake in that.

[Matt]

All right, let's get to the beer that you and I enjoyed during our episode. It's brewed in Georgia. Local lager beer. What'd you think?

[Joel]

So I thought this was delicious.

[Matt]

And it's called Satisfied by Piedmont Brewery.

[Joel]

And I am.

[Matt]

I held it up to you. You didn't read it.

[Joel]

I am feeling satisfied, Matthew. Me too. After this beer and because it was perfect and it says this on the label. It was crisp. It certainly was. But it doesn't say this on the label. It was light. It was refreshing. Like, it was just. People talk about lawnmower beers. We're in. We're in lawnmowering season, Matt. This is like, if I had a John Deere, like, 28 inch mower, I would want to be drinking this while I was on it. I don't have one of those, but if I did, this is the beer I would want while I was driving it.

[Matt]

So in a similar vein, but I'm not going to go quite as redneck after I've been on my hands and knees because I pay like a fancy person. I pay some local neighborhood boys to cut our lawn, but then I spend the time that I've saved to pull weeds and to do the kind of gardening that I want to do. So after doing that, then sitting there in one of the Adirondacks with the beer, that's. That's where I'm spending my time as opposed to. I don't know, something about the fumes. Riding on a John Deere with a beer makes me think of King of the Hill.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Yeah. Which is, I think, what you're actually going for, for sure.

[Joel]

Oh, my gosh. That's the life I want to live. One of these days, I'm gonna. I'm gonna achieve it.

[Matt]

You can do it. Keep an eye out for tractor supply. They'll have.

[Joel]

There you go. Well, this. This was. This is the time of year that this kind of beer hits right, too, so great beer. Got to enjoy November, December when it's cold, but when it's warm, this is what you want to be drinking. So. All right, that's going to do it for. For this episode. If you have a money question we want to hear from you, go to howtomoney.com ask record it on the voicemail. App of your phone. Email it over to us. Hopefully we'll take it next week on the show. Matt that's going to do it bud. Until next time. Best Friends out.

[Matt]

Best friends out.

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you walk into a room and can't remember why, it could be nothing or something more. If you confuse a familiar recipe, it could be a slip up or it could be associated with amyloid plaque buildup in the brain. Amyloid is a protein that your body produces naturally, but a buildup in the brain could lead to memory and thinking issues. To see what may be behind your memory and thinking issues, talk to your doctor about getting a full assessment. It's never too early to start the conversation. Visit amyloid.com to learn more.

[Joel]

This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

[Matt]

Hey, it's the Velo guy.

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[Joel]

underage sale prohibited nicotine pouches Velo plus is a synthetic nicotine product website restricted to age 21/ nicotine consumers. Copyright 2026 MBI.

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This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.