Ask HTM - Student Loans vs Investing, Best Cell Service While Abroad, & the Role of Faith in Our Finances #976

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Money – Episode #976

Title: Ask HTM - Student Loans vs Investing, Best Cell Service While Abroad, & the Role of Faith in Our Finances
Host: Joel and Matt
Release Date: April 28, 2025
Duration: Approximately 56 minutes

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Introduction

In episode #976 of How to Money, hosts Joel and Matt tackle a diverse array of listener questions, providing insightful advice on student loan repayment strategies, optimizing cell phone service for international travel, and exploring the intersection of faith and personal finances. This episode not only offers practical financial guidance but also delves into the personal philosophies that shape the hosts' approach to money management.

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1. Student Loans vs. Investing

Listener Question:
Donald from North Carolina asks about balancing the repayment of a substantial private student loan ($70,000 at 3.8% interest) with investing in the market. He contemplates whether to maintain his current payment of $700/month towards the loan while investing $400/month or to accelerate loan payments to save on interest.

Discussion Highlights:

• Joel's Insight ([07:51] - [13:04]):
  Joel advises caution regarding reliance on the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program, noting current political uncertainties that may affect its availability. He shares his personal experience, reflecting on the drawback of paying off low-interest loans early instead of investing the money, which could potentially yield higher returns over time.

  "The sooner I pay it off, the more I can invest. But if I pay the minimum, I can invest less but for a longer time. So is time in the market always better?" — Donald [07:51]

• Matt's Perspective ([11:33] - [17:15]):
  Matt emphasizes the importance of not prioritizing high-interest debts over investments. Given Donald's relatively low-interest rate on his private loan, they suggest maintaining his current investment strategy while keeping the loan payments manageable. They highlight the benefits of liquidity and the potential for higher returns through investments.

  "You're at parity and just cash accounts. Again, like Joel said, you are not even having to invest those dollars. There's no need to funnel any more money towards the student loans right now." — Matt [14:07]

Conclusion:
Joel and Matt recommend continuing with Donald's current balanced approach, suggesting that his investment strategy may offer greater financial benefits given the loan's interest rate. They caution against accelerating loan payments prematurely, especially when investments could potentially outpace loan interest.

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2. Reporting Loans to Credit Bureaus

Listener Question:
Vic inquires about the possibility of reporting personal loans made to friends or clients to credit bureaus to help improve their credit scores. He asks how an individual can facilitate this reporting and its impact on FICO scores.

Discussion Highlights:

• Joel's Response ([22:13] - [26:01]):
  Joel explains the limitations individuals face in reporting personal loans to credit bureaus, emphasizing that only official data furnishers can report such information. He warns against potential relationship strains when lending money to friends or family and underscores the absence of mechanisms for individuals to report these loans independently.

  "It's such an egregious mistake that I want Vic to avoid, I want everyone else out there to avoid... Money is not worth ruining a relationship over." — Joel [23:00]

• Matt's Clarification ([24:07] - [30:12]):
  Matt reinforces that individuals cannot directly report personal loans to credit bureaus. He mentions third-party services like Zillow and Self that facilitate rent and installment loan reporting but clarifies that these are not applicable for personal loans among individuals.

  "Self, who Matt, you mentioned just a second ago, they also offer a similar free service that connects to your bank in order to report payments." — Matt [26:32]

Conclusion:
Joel and Matt inform Vic that it's not feasible for individuals to report personal loans to credit bureaus directly. They advise maintaining clear boundaries and cautioning against lending money to acquaintances to preserve both personal relationships and financial stability.

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3. The Role of Faith in Finances

Listener Question:
Jonathan from Dubuque, Iowa, explores how religious faith influences Joel and Matt’s financial practices. He seeks to understand the role of faith in their financial decision-making processes.

Discussion Highlights:

• Joel's Reflections ([31:33] - [38:47]):
  Joel shares that as practicing Christians, their faith significantly shapes their approach to money. He references the Bible’s teachings on stewardship, generosity, and purpose-driven financial management. Joel emphasizes that while faith influences their financial habits, they strive to present advice that resonates with listeners of various belief systems.

  "Everything we have is basically from God, what that means is that nothing I have is mine." — Matt [36:13]

• Matt's Perspective ([35:25] - [39:31]):
  Matt discusses the practical applications of biblical principles, such as tithing and diligent stewardship. He highlights that their faith fosters a mindset of responsibility and generosity, guiding them to use money thoughtfully to benefit others and support their community.

  "Our family tithes 10% to our local church. And then we give even beyond that when we feel called to." — Matt [35:25]

Conclusion:
Faith plays a foundational role in Joel and Matt’s financial philosophies, guiding their practices towards stewardship, generosity, and intentional living. They acknowledge that while their beliefs influence their approach, their financial advice remains inclusive and applicable to a broad audience.

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4. Mortgage vs. Investing Stock Grants

Listener Question:
Meriwether seeks advice on whether to use stock grants from his compensation package to pay down his $400,000 mortgage at a 5.8% interest rate or to invest the funds in the market. He contemplates reducing his principal to lower his loan-to-value ratio and eliminate private mortgage insurance (PMI).

Discussion Highlights:

• Joel's Insights ([44:48] - [48:06]):
  Joel highlights the significant portion of mortgage payments that go towards interest in the initial years. He advises Meriwether to prioritize paying down the mortgage to eliminate PMI and reduce the overall interest paid, especially given the high-interest rate.

  "If you take out a 30-year mortgage every time you move, if you're only there for five years, man, think about how little of a dent you've made in the balance of that loan." — Joel [44:56]

• Matt's Recommendations ([45:46] - [48:06]):
  Matt agrees, suggesting that Meriwether use the stock grants to pay down the mortgage principal until reaching a loan-to-value ratio that removes PMI. He recommends diversifying investments after addressing high-interest debt and emphasizes the importance of tax considerations in these decisions.

  "Use it and do something with it. And so I'm actually not nearly as against, at least from a psychological perspective, people getting a lump sum tax refund..." — Matt [06:51]

Conclusion:
Joel and Matt advise Meriwether to prioritize paying down his mortgage, particularly to eliminate PMI and reduce interest costs. Once these financial burdens are lessened, he can redirect funds towards diversified investments, balancing debt repayment with wealth-building strategies.

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5. Best Cell Service While Abroad

Listener Question:
Hadeel requests recommendations for affordable cell phone providers that offer reliable international options. She aims to maintain connectivity during her upcoming travels without incurring exorbitant costs.

Discussion Highlights:

• Joel's Suggestions ([48:25] - [53:12]):
  Joel humorously suggests old-school alternatives but quickly shifts to practical advice. He recommends using ESIM services like Airalo for cost-effective international data plans. Joel contrasts these with traditional U.S. providers, noting that companies like Google Fi and US Mobile offer competitive international plans but may still be pricier compared to third-party ESIM options.

  "You're not even like. I've heard horror stories of people turning on their phone and all these texts come through and they're charging a massive amount of money." — Joel [52:57]

• Matt's Additions ([49:55] - [53:38]):
  Matt concurs, highlighting the affordability and flexibility of ESIM services. He advises travelers to choose country-specific or regional ESIMs based on their travel destinations and suggests using a shared pocket router for groups to save further costs.

  "Airalo in particular seems to be the best of the bunch... you can really just kind of buy what you need." — Matt [52:25]

Conclusion:
For affordable and reliable international cell service, Joel and Matt recommend third-party ESIM providers like Airalo, which offer customizable data plans at significantly lower costs compared to traditional U.S. carriers. They emphasize the importance of selecting plans tailored to specific travel needs to optimize both connectivity and budget.

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Conclusion

Episode #976 of How to Money offers a comprehensive exploration of listener questions that bridge practical financial strategies with personal values. Joel and Matt adeptly navigate topics ranging from debt management and investment strategies to the nuanced role of faith in financial decision-making. Their advice underscores a balanced approach to personal finance, advocating for thoughtful planning, flexibility, and the importance of aligning financial practices with one's broader life goals and values.

Listeners can access detailed show notes and further resources on the How to Money website.

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Notable Quotes:

• Joel ([01:46]):
  "We're also going to talk about the role of religion in our lives. We're going to have a faith and finances kind of conversation."

• Donald ([07:51]):
  "Surely there has to be somewhere between paying $700 a month for the next 10 years and let's say doubling my payment to $1400 and paying off in less than five years."

• Matt ([10:05]):
  "The speaking to the heart and the heart of my faith comes down to loving God and loving your neighbor."

• Joel ([31:33]):
  "Our faith is an essential part of our lives. It's amazing how much the Bible talks about money."

• Meriwether ([56:06]):
  "I'm entertaining the idea of selling some of that stock as it vests and paying off some of the principal of my mortgage until I reach a certain loan to value."

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Timestamp References:

• Student Loans vs. Investing: [07:51] - [17:15]
• Reporting Loans to Credit Bureaus: [22:13] - [30:12]
• Faith and Finances: [31:33] - [38:47]
• Mortgage vs. Investing Stock Grants: [44:48] - [48:06]
• Best Cell Service While Abroad: [48:25] - [53:12]

Transcript

[Matt]

Asking the right questions can greatly impact your future, especially when it comes to your finances.

[Joel]

So if you're looking for a financial advisor you can trust, certified financial planner professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. That's why it's got to be a CFP. Find your CFP [e-mail] Breaking News T.

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[Joel]

Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts.

[Matt]

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[Joel]

Or ring the bell on their bike.

[Matt]

Okay, kid, give it a try.

[Joel]

Nice.

[Matt]

Or remember their elbow pads.

[Joel]

Knees, too.

[Matt]

Okay. Yep, There you go. New Instagram teen accounts.

[Joel]

Automatic protections for who can contact your.

[Matt]

Teenager and the content they can see.

[Joel]

Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel. I'm Matt, and today we're answering your listener questions.

[Matt]

You know what, buddy? We have some listeners who have inquired and they want to know what to do with their money. We've got a listener who's looking to dial in his student loan payoff strategy specifically. And he's got both federal and private student loans, so we've got an answer there for him. Another is asking about the best options for cell coverage while abroad. They want to be able to tap into some of that data while they're traveling this summer.

[Joel]

The price discrepancies in that area can be significant.

[Matt]

It's dramatic. And we're also going to talk about the role of religion in our lives. We're going to have a faith and finances kind of conversation.

[Joel]

Someone wants to peek behind the curtain of who we are, not just what we think about money, but kind of like how we think about money based on our views on faith.

[Matt]

Totally. And we have talked about this in the past. It's just not something we. It's not a drum that we beat regularly, continuously on every single episode. So I'm looking forward to that one.

[Joel]

But from here on out, we shall. Just kidding.

[Matt]

Real quick. Did you? So right before we sat down to record, I just took a walk around the block after lunch. Did you see that they are resurfacing, recoding the tennis courts? Oh, no. In the public park.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

Near our office.

[Joel]

That's nice. Are they turning them into pickleball courts?

[Matt]

That's exactly what they're doing. They're not just recoding the tenant. The truck said, you know, number one, pickleball surfacing or whatever, which kind of got me excited. It would be the nearest pickleball court by far to where we live. I might just have to splurge, get me a couple paddles. Maybe we'll. We'll pick it up and start playing. You want to. You want to get into it?

[Joel]

Yes. I've been wanting to try it out, and I'm not.

[Matt]

It's fun.

[Joel]

It's funny. I had the thought last night, I was. I was on a run, and I ran by, like, a bunch of tennis courts, and I saw all these young people playing tennis, and I was wondering if the rise in pickleball, is it, like, tide that lifts all boats and tennis is also seeing a resurgence or. No.

[Matt]

Gets people out on the court.

[Joel]

It's pickleball, the thing. And people are, like, kicking tennis to the curb. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I was like, I think I've played tennis. I enjoy tennis. I think I would like pickleball, too.

[Matt]

It's in my impression or in my experience, it's a more social version of tennis, which I'm like, all right. This has got Joel written on.

[Joel]

A little quicker to write, which. A little more intense. Yeah, I'm into.

[Matt]

And you can fit more people on the courts. I'm pretty sure. I don't know the exact dimensions, but I think you can fit probably four pickleball courts. Oh, I bet in the span of where there's. Where there used to be two tennis courts.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

I don't know the exact dimensions or anything, but I gotta imagine that they're. That they're gonna be able to ramp up the number of folks who can get out there and play, which is. I love that too, man. That's like density and housing. Right. Like, why not build an apartment as opposed. Or a split. Not a split. Quad plex. As opposed to a single family. If that's something that folks are wanting.

[Joel]

Yeah. And that doesn't have to be a teaching moment or anything like that, but I think this is a good. Just a good reminder for people to use whatever free resources are available. And if it means, hey, I gotta buy pickleball paddle and a ball, but where I play, I get to play for free, then that's pretty awesome. I think of it kind of like I think of disc golf where you buy a few discs and basically all the courses are free to play on.

[Matt]

And so yeah, not all of them. We've never played at some of the high end courses which evidently kept up like golf courses.

[Joel]

Yeah, I've literally never paid to play, but I would, I totally would if I went somewhere fancy and it was a really cool course but for the most part it's free to play and all you got to do is buy a few discs and you can even get them at like a used sporting goods store, something like that is played.

[Matt]

Again, sports still in existence, still around.

[Joel]

We have one not too far from us, so.

[Matt]

Nice.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Something else I wanted to share real quick. Last week was tax filing day and I think there might be a lot of folks who received or maybe they were told recently that they're going to receive a nice fat check.

[Joel]

And it's like on the way, coming through the Internet into your bank account.

[Matt]

And they're already thinking of maybe different ways to spend it. You know, you got that dopamine hit and you're like, oh yeah, I'm gonna get that, that nice spring little bonus and I'm gonna be the, I'm gonna rain on your parade. I'm gonna be the stick in the mud who is gonna like wag his finger at you and recommend for you to do something smart with that money. And I'm not even gonna recommend for folks to do this. The typical money gears, we, you know, we, we harp on that all the time. What I want folks to do is to think about an expense that they know is coming but that they just haven't budgeted for. Because those are the kind of budget derailers that can completely wreck your finances for a few months maybe. Gosh, even where you're maybe even carrying a balance on a credit card because it's something that you didn't plan for. Because I didn't quite have enough money set aside for that. I would hate for that to be something that derails folks finances. Like I'm thinking of deferred car maintenance or a repair at home. You know, you got to get a contractor out, even like a medical bill, like something where you know that oh, I've got this procedure, it's going to cost me, you know, a few hundred bucks at, at a minimum. And being able to Prepare for these things, I think is really smart creating those little savings buckets that are dedicated to these specific expenses.

[Joel]

And we can debate the wisdom of getting a tax refund, but I think more than anything, reality is there are.

[Matt]

Folks who are getting one.

[Joel]

There are lots of folks. And the average refund has actually gone up this year for taxpayers. So it's, it's one of those things. Where is it the most optimal thing? Probably not, but it's a chance. It's a, it's really for most people, a once in a year chance to get some sort of lump sum to change the trajectory of their finances.

[Matt]

Feel like you're ahead a little bit.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

So use it.

[Joel]

Use it and do something with it. And so I'm actually not nearly as against, at least from a psychological perspective, people getting a lump sum tax refund overpaying throughout the year because it does give you a chance to tackle something big with your finances in one fell swoop.

[Matt]

That's right, man. Okay. The beer that you and I are going to enjoy during this episode is called a birdie putt. This is a Pilsner by Six Bridges. Looking forward to drinking and enjoying and sharing our thoughts at the end of the episode.

[Joel]

No doubt. All right, let's take listener questions, Matt. And if you are listening and you've got a money question we want to hear from you, just go to howtomoney.com ask for the simple instructions or just say, hey, what's my money question? And noodle it out real quick. Record yourself. Email it over to [e-mail] we look forward to taking your question on the show ASAP. Matt, let's get to a question specifically about paying off student loans and the wisdom behind doing so.

[Donald]

Hey, guys, My name's Donald. I'm originally from Maryland, but I'm currently living in North Carolina with my wife Chelsea, my two cats, peanut butter and whiskey. So shout out to them. Chelsea included. So my question is about student loan payoff strategy. I've been out of college for about four years now and I'm paying off both a private and a student and a public loan. My plan for the public loan is to pay as little as possible and after 10 years, have the rest forgiven as part of the public student loan forgiveness program as I'm part of the military. But I'm less sure about the private loan. It's currently sitting around 70,000 with a 3.8% interest rate. I'm paying $700 a month towards that and want to know if ever I should prioritize paying that off versus investing in the market. I currently put around 400amonth in the market and occasionally make a couple thousand dollar investment. Surely there has to be somewhere between paying $700 a month for the next 10 years and let's say doubling my payment to 1400 and paying off in less than five years, which would save me the most money. Right. So the sooner I pay it off, the more I can invest. But if I pay the minimum, I can invest less but for a longer time. So is time in the market always better? Came up to. Great work. P.S. chelsea and I often combine couples names to save time. So you guys would either be Mole or Jat. So I'll let you guys pick your poison on that. Anyway, have a great one, guys.

[Matt]

Ooh, Mole or Jat, which one do you prefer?

[Joel]

I can't get behind Mole. I can't.

[Matt]

What if it was Moel?

[Joel]

I'm gonna go with Jat, I guess. So what's fun out of a, out of a lack of options for better choices.

[Matt]

What's funny is that we've already done this with our last names and so on our shared calendar. So technically it's the, the business Gmail accounts calendar, but we put things on there that pertain to both of our families. So for instance, our summer vacation trip and our couple, or I guess our family combined family name is. I guess it is by default. But somehow we've actively decided this is Altgard.

[Joel]

Yeah. And so that we could have been Lars Mix.

[Matt]

It could have been Lars Mix, but I think Altgaard is just stronger because you've got the Alt. Nice hard T there and then the guard, like both very strong. You put them together and you got out of money.

[Joel]

The last name combo is vastly superior to the first name combo, which that's.

[Matt]

That'S actually a thing. So a friend of ours, her and her husband, when they got married, they blended their last names together.

[Joel]

Like legally.

[Matt]

Yeah. Michelle. Yeah.

[Joel]

Oh, that's right. Yes, that's right.

[Matt]

So they got married, blended their, their last names and basically they met in the middle when it came to what their like new family name was.

[Joel]

I can respect that.

[Matt]

Yeah. It reminds me of like the. Was it in the 90s, like the couple name, like the celebrity couples, like Brenniffer is one that comes to mind. Brad Pitt, Jennifer Aniston. That was the ultimate couple.

[Joel]

I think people still. Brangelina. That was another. Yeah, everything Was it just with Brandon, all the women he was with, they had to combine the names.

[Matt]

Oh man.

[Joel]

I Think that happened to other celebrities, too, but. All right, let's get to Donald's question. Donald, it sounds like you're making a smart move while, you know, trying to pay as little as possible in hopes to have maximum forgiveness on that student loan under the PSLF program. I will say, though, with all the noise around student loan policy right now, banking on public service loan forgiveness being there for years to come, it might be a mistake. The current administration has taken a more hostile attitude and approach toward pslf. So we just don't know if it's going to be around forever. You can hope for it, but there could be a rug pull coming at least at some point for folks who are in the PSLF process but haven't achieved forgiveness yet. Not trying to freak you out or anything like that, but I wanted to mention, sounds like you are, Joel. Student loan stuff is just in flux, right?

[Matt]

It is.

[Joel]

And we don't have a clear answer at least to some of the questions that student loan borrowers have. If Congress made a change, right, you'd likely be grandfathered in, but that's also not guaranteed. So I guess it's just. I want to put that in your headspace, Donald, just to be thinking about that and not count your chickens before they hatch.

[Matt]

True. Yeah. Nice little note before we answer Donald's question a little more directly here, but for multiple reasons, Donald, we would prefer for you to keep that private student loan around. And so if you head over to the site and you hit start here, you will see the money gears. But you don't pay off low interest debts until you get to Money Gear 6. You are investing a lot, which is great, while simultaneously working to get rid of those loans. You want to. You're working to eradicate them. And you are at the point where you could opt to invest maybe a bit less in order to get rid of those loans a bit faster. But I just would not make that a priority. I wouldn't be taking that option, at least not at this point, given the.

[Joel]

Data that you shared with us, Matt. When I got my first real job out of college, I kind of had it on my mind that I wanted to get rid of the student loans that I had. And I didn't have this insane amount. I think I had like $12,000 worth of student loans. And I still remember getting to the point where I was accelerating the payoff and I was like, all right, I have a lump sum here. I can pay off like $3,000 and be done with them. And looking back, it was a Mistake. I did it, and I wouldn't do it if I could go back in time because my interest rate, 1.875%. Yeah, that's a little bit of humble brag.

[Matt]

Can I refinance that for another 30 years at 2%? Perhaps I'd be willing to pay even a little bit more to stretch that thing out, of course, depending on what you do with that money.

[Joel]

Otherwise, I thought that was worth mentioning, that just a minor financial mistake. Think about what that could have done in a Roth IRA for me over the years if I had made a different move. And we should also mention that we're not typically fans of private student loans, but during COVID private student loan holders often had to continue to make payments while folks with federal loans had their payments paused for like three and a half years. So you felt like you were on the outside looking in if you had private student loans, because you kind of were, because you were jealous of all the federal people who had perpetual payment pauses. And you were still paying in many cases. Although when interest rates were low, it did make sense for some folks to refinance into a private loan, even though protections for borrowers weren't nearly as good. And so because of how low your interest rate is here, Donald, I just don't see this as a high priority for you, even if the balance is steep. Right. Because you can, you can make just as much, if not more money just by saving.

[Matt]

Right.

[Joel]

You don't, you don't even have to invest those dollars because then that's where you maybe fall into treacherous territory. If it's like, well, if I invest in the S and P and the returns are this good and you're making.

[Matt]

Projections, it's not guaranteed.

[Joel]

It's not guaranteed. But when we're talking about an FDIC insured high yield Savings account through CIT or Betterment, which are two of our favorite institutions, paying the highest rates, you're talking about guaranteed returns that are essentially on par with what your student loan rate is.

[Matt]

That's right. Yeah. It would be like paying off a 3ish percent mortgage early were you to attack these student loans and pay them down a bit faster. But the only reason we would suggest for you to pay off your student loans early now is if that money was burning a hole in your pocket, if you were going to spend it instead of saving that money instead of investing comes sort of, like I was saying earlier, it comes down to what you would otherwise do with that money. What are the alternatives? But you don't sound like that. Kind of guy. Donald, it sounds like you are a diligent investor. You are young and while I certainly understand the hatred of having your student loans around for a decade or more, paying off more quickly would mean investing less. It would mean having less liquidity in that specific like that in and of itself right there. Like some liquid cash reserves, they are underrated. And of course we wouldn't want you to keep credit card debt around. For instance, you know, like if we're talking about paying the credit card companies 20 plus percent, that's a different story. That's not what we're talking about here. There's a difference between that versus a 3.5 to 4% return on your cash. You're at parity and just cash accounts. Again, like Joel said, you are not even having to invest those dollars. There's no need to funnel any more money towards the student loans right now, in our opinion.

[Joel]

Yeah, I think it might be worth mentioning too, Matt, just like some of the little idiosyncrasies of this. Yeah, you're going to pay tax on the money that you make in an interest bearing savings account. You're going to get a 1099 at the end of the year. So there's that. But then on the flip side of that, you can get a tax deduction for student loan interest that you pay if you're itemizing. There's also a tax break for investing more in tax advantaged accounts too. So if you're saying, oh well, by holding off on paying down this student loan, it's allowing me to get additional tax benefits in both of those areas, it might be worth it. You know, those are, I think more minor factors in the decision, but they're worth mentioning and worth thinking through. It's, I think it's another small check mark in the investor and save over payoff category. And we love the idea of getting rid of debt. Like, I don't want it to sound like we're in favor of you keeping any kind of debt around for long periods of time. I mean, for the most part we are not fans of debt, but we, we also love investing and we want you to have the best holistic financial situation possible. And so we want you to build your net worth intelligently. It's not like there's a right or a wrong answer here. And we can't assure you that savings rates will stay or the market returns are going to be higher than 3.8% annually over next decade. Like, I wouldn't sign my name to that. I would say if you look historically, there's a good likelihood. But you know, if history repeats or rhymes, putting more in the market is going to be better than paying off the debt.

[Matt]

Totally. And then if interest rates on savings, if they drop back to where they were a few years ago, well, you can always pivot. You just drop a big old chunk of savings down on those loans and then just totally wipe them out. But Joel, we've got more to get to. We're going to hear from a listener who is interested not in receiving information from the credit bureaus, but actually reporting information to the bureaus. We'll get to that and more right after this. This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. They know just how fast your life moves. You have bills to pay, mouths to feed, and not a lot of free time. That's why they created an all in one banking experience that lets you keep on banking on.

[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

And I'm Joel from the how to Money Show. Matt, it's April and I've got spring break on my mind. Please tell me you got something fun lined up.

[Matt]

Oh, dude. Typically I am a planner, but we're actually switching things up this year. We're going to go a bit more spontaneous. I've been searching on Airbnb for some inspiration. You know, we've narrowed it down to trying to find some warmer temperatures. We kind of got that spring fever. So we're going to try to find something along the coast, maybe, maybe some sand to dip my toes into.

[Joel]

I like it.

[Matt]

But how about you?

[Joel]

Okay, so we've actually got our plans locked in. I'm taking the fam to this charming little Bavarian style town called Helen. It's up in the Georgia mountains.

[Matt]

I know about Helen.

[Joel]

Yeah, well, I found the perfect cabin on Airbnb, complete with a hot tub, which I'm definitely going to need after running A trail half marathon while I'm up there too.

[Matt]

Oh, that is right. I forgot about the half marathon. Man, it sounds like an adventure. And you know what? While you're enjoying that hot tub, you could actually have your own place listed on Airbnb. Earning some extra cash while you are away.

[Joel]

True. And now with Airbnb's co host feature, I hear it's easier than ever for anyone who's been overwhelmed by the idea of hosting. A co host can do the hosting for you and help manage your reservations and your guests. Find a co [e-mail] host those big money goals. They take a lot of time and effort, but it feels so good to reach that milestone. I still remember saving 20% to put down on our first home. Man, it felt amazing. The only thing more important though, than achieving a dream is protecting it. So protect your family by securing their future with life insurance from policygenius. With policygenius, you can find life insurance policies that start at just $292 per year for a million dollars of coverage. Some options are 100% online and let you avoid unnecessary medical exams.

[Matt]

Yeah, man, I'm so thankful that I got a life insurance policy in place back in the day to take care of the family were something to happen to me. But then, personally, man, I felt a sigh of relief once we got a policy for Kate were something to happen. God forbid. I know that I'm going to need some serious help and assistance. And with policygenius, you can compare quotes from America's top insurers side by side for free with no hidden fees. They make it easy and quick so you can get on with life. It's why policygenius is the country's leading insurance marketplace.

[Joel]

Secure your families tomorrow so you have peace of mind. Today. Head to policygenius.com to get your free life insurance quotes and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com all right, Matt, we're back. We got more listener questions that we got to take, including this one from listener Vic. He wants to help some folks out in his life. Let's see if we can help him make that a reality.

[Vic]

I was listening to your show earlier today and you were talking about installment notes. I am constantly loaning money to different people. Some clients, some not. Well, I would love to help them with their credit to give them another trade line. Are you telling me that if I loan, for example, If I loaned $100,000 to Person X, I can report it to the bureau or who reports it to the bureau and how does it actually work for their FICO to go up? Or how does the trade line show up in their credit report showing that it's active, meaning that they're consistently paying me and does me, the beneficiary. Do I have to keep updating the bureau's monthly, weekly, every other month? I'm not sure. Thank you very much.

[Matt]

All right. And that question was from Vic, who just happened to forget to mention his name there at the top of the question.

[Joel]

But we know.

[Matt]

Yeah. I love this, though, because it shows that he is trying to make his clients and friends, those who he is lending money to, aware of the credit building possibilities of reporting these on time payments to the bureaus, which is, by the way, the biggest factor in your credit score. So being able to help them to report on time payments for loans, I mean, that would be a big help. But Vic, we're sad to say, we're sad to hate to burst your bubble here, but it is actually not possible for you as an individual to do that.

[Joel]

I wish, I wish we had better news and that you could help the people you're lending money to in that way. You know, get. Get that reported to the credit bureaus to boost our score, but sadly not possible. We'll get into the details of that in just a second, too. But I also want to ask the question, like, who are you lending money to and why? And not that I'm against people lending money to each other, but be careful because you made it sound like you're lending money to clients and then other people too. And I don't know who the other people are. Are they friends, are they acquaintances? Are they random strangers that you pass by? Like you, just you. You want to. You don't want to get taken advantage of when you're lending money to people around you in your orbit and don't lend more than you can comfortably afford to. Also, it's crucial. Anytime you're lending to someone who's in your friend circle, know that lending money to people in your community or in your family can harm relationships. Right. I've just seen too many folks lend to friends or family not get paid back. They're irreparably harming that relationship and their finances at the same time. It's such an egregious mistake that I want Vic to avoid, I want everyone else out there to avoid. Out of a generous spirit, you're often like, well, let me lend to you. I'm hoping to get paid back maybe with a little extra on top Then they're late or they don't pay up at all and it sours the relationship. And it's just not. Money is not worth ruining a relationship over.

[Matt]

That's true. Look at Joel with all the thoughtful helpful thoughts. Notes at the, at the beginning of the questions here.

[Joel]

What is it? Thoughts from Jack Handy was on Saturday Live.

[Matt]

Is that what that was old school SNL right there. But Vic, you. So on the previous episode when you heard us talking about this, we were referring to a fintech service, most likely. This is what we're talking about called Self. And this allows folks to take out an installment loan for the express purpose of building up their credit scores. But only official data furnishers are allowed to report things to the big three bureaus. And as an individual, you there by yourself. You can't just show up at their headquarters or write them an email in an attempt to have those loan payments reported in order to influence their scores.

[Joel]

If only you could guy with sign style, stand in front of Equifax and say, hey, here's my friend Gina. I want you to report this so that she can have a credit score increase.

[Matt]

She's on time again. No. So there's a law called the Fair Credit Reporting act that passed back in 1970 and that kind of outlined how the payments that you make on time, how it impacts your credit score. And if you were granted that ability under the fcra, well you would have then the additional legal responsibilities around potential disputes which individuals they're just not well equipped to handle. Because that's like you said.

[Joel]

That's true.

[Matt]

Like because you log in, check your credit report, it's a monthly sort of reporting that takes place. That's why you see like the green circle around April. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's just one of the small things that, that goes into creating these credit reports. So while you may not be able to help these folks build their credit, though not having this ability, I actually think it'll make your, your life far less miserable of having these additional requirements that are basically mandatory.

[Joel]

Yeah, I agree. I think you don't want to sign yourself up for that type of existence.

[Matt]

And if you did, then you would have to start charging them like higher rates of interest, which is what the banks do.

[Joel]

Right? Yeah. So let's talk about, Matt, one maybe area where this has developed in recent years where private landlords in particular, they haven't had the ability to directly report payments directly to the bureaus. And that's one of those things where you would say of all people who should have that ability to report it would be individual small time landlords. But there just hasn't been a mechanism, I guess, for them to report on time or late payments of someone who's living in a home or apartment that they own. You would think that would be pertinent to the bureau's though, right? Whether someone's paying their rent on time, that would be an important thing for them to consider. But there are now fortunately, indirect third party companies that make this reporting possible. Zillow, for instance, offers this service for free. Right. And your tenant has to pay through Zillow to you landlord has to then say, okay, cool, I'm willing to accept payments through Zillow's platform. I believe there's no fee if you pay certain ways on both ends. I think the, the tenant can pay with a credit card maybe and then pay a fee. But self, who, Matt, you mentioned just a second ago, they also offer a similar free service that connects to your bank in order to report payments. You can even, I think pay them as an individual 50 bucks to report on time payments over the past two years in an effort to increase your score more quickly.

[Matt]

So kind of get some of that back history.

[Joel]

Yeah, but it's amazing how you need this. You essentially need a third party who is equipped and signed up to make these reports, these monthly reports to the bureaus. You as an individual, me as an individual. I own, you know, a handful of properties. You as you do as well, Matt. And we can't, if one of our tenants doesn't pay on time, unless we're signed up through Zillow and we have that formal relationship, there's nothing, no real recourse we have from a credit perspective.

[Matt]

That being said, and I think this is one of the reasons you're probably, I don't know if you're planning to mention these other companies, but the bureaus, they also have their services where you can do this as well. We're just not huge fans of doing business with them if you don't have to. As opposed to Zillow, who does put out a fantastic product versus these other, I don't know what feel more like government bureaus. They're not government agencies.

[Joel]

They're like, they're bureaucratic nightmares and just poorly run.

[Matt]

It's more closely aligned with the government, I will say, than, let's just say Zillow.

[Joel]

But we've talked about through the years who gets the most complaints. Essentially every year when the CFPB releases their list, it's the Credit bureaus, like people are saying inaccurate reports, my credit score got tarnished for reasons that it wasn't my fault. And the credit bureaus, they don't like to fix it.

[Matt]

So I will mention though, so Equifax, they have partnered with Bilt, Experian, they've partnered with Rent Bureau and then TransUnion, they've got their own, I think it's called Resident Credit, where if you are collecting rent via these platforms that it also gets reported. And these aren't platforms that. I don't know if you've used any of these platforms, Joel, but I haven't. They're all relatively new. I am very interested though in making this happen because, you know, if you're a great tenant who always pays rent on time, well, for the tenant, this is great because it boosts your score. The technology is just making this process a whole lot easier. And then as a landlord, I love it as well because come on, man, there's some accountability here. And yes, little extra skin in the game. Yeah, yeah. I would think that a tenant who's looking to, let's say, apply for a new property, say, hey, where you've been living for the past two years, there's a gap here. I see that. And then, oh, maybe they didn't write your name down because they ended up trashing your place and they know they're going to give you a false report. Maybe that's how they could approach it. I'm just pointing out that there are ways around a previous landlord's recommendation or not recommendation to allow you to rent. But I am glad that there are these third party companies stepping in the void because again, it's just a massive expense. I'm thinking about it just from the standpoint of renters more than anybody else because if you are not choosing to rent with one of the big, some of these big corporations where there is a, you know, where there are more systems in place, it feels like you're almost making a sacrifice to rent in a cuter home or a home in a neighborhood that happens to be owned by a local landlord.

[Joel]

Well, and you and I, we're just not aware though at this point of anything that does that for a loan made between friends.

[Matt]

Right.

[Joel]

So if I were to make a loan, we don't know of any service like that.

[Matt]

That's right. Back to Vic's question.

[Joel]

But. So you like talking about real estate. And I just, I don't think we're likely to see individuals get direct access to bureaus in order to. And I don't say this in a rude way, but in order to manipulate other people's credit scores up or down, there's just too much possibility for fraud and abuse. And I think it'd be hard from a record keeping perspective for the bureaus to interact directly with millions of individual Americans across the country. It's a good thought. We're glad that third party companies are making it easier to report a variety of credit types, but there's just no way for you as an individual to kind of make this a possibility right now. Sorry, Vic.

[Matt]

That's right, Joel. All right, this is not something that we do regularly, but let's hear a question from a listener who is asking about faith and finances.

[Jonathan]

Hi Joel and Matt, this is Jonathan in Dubuque, Iowa. On a recent episode you mentioned you might do an ask me anything episode. And if you ever do that, the question that came to mind for me was what is the role of religious faith, if any, in your lives and your approach to finances? I know it doesn't have to be relevant to your main topic, but I think it might be anyway since faith does shape the way we live our lives, set our priorities and use our resources. I greatly enjoy the show. Look forward to hearing more. God bless.

[Joel]

Ooh, Matt, let's get to it. I like this question.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

And by the way, Jonathan asked, he mentioned an ask me anything episode.

[Matt]

We totally need to do that.

[Joel]

I think we're going to. So you know, it's approaching quickly. Episode 1000.

[Matt]

That's when we're going to do it.

[Joel]

That's when we're going to do it.

[Matt]

So it's like two, three months out.

[Joel]

I guess if listening to the answer to this question or if you're just like, man, there's something I've always wanted to know about Matt and Joel, but.

[Matt]

It'S not really a money question.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

So literally enables like a Reddit ask me anything. Like honestly, should we even take money related questions?

[Joel]

No. If they everything but everything or unless it's something specific about how we it.

[Matt]

Can pertain to money. But yeah, not the typical investing kind of question. We want just like crazy off the wall, completely random style questions. That's what I want that to be.

[Joel]

Like what tattoo is on Matt's lower back. Right. We can answer that question on Everyone knows.

[Matt]

Everyone Knows it's Aldi.

[Joel]

If only.

[Matt]

I appreciate you asking this, Jonathan, because we're more than willing to talk about the role of faith in our lives, but we just don't typically do it in this like A pushy way on the podcast because we know we've got listeners out there who do subscribe to just various different belief systems. Some don't have a belief system at all. And while our faith does influence how we think about money, how could it not? Of course we don't want to purposefully alienate anyone from a money education just because we're being a little too heavy handed when it comes to what it is that we believe. It makes me even think about how we talk about politics on the show. We don't. We're not diving into partisan politics. We will talk about policy.

[Joel]

And it's not that you and I don't have opinions or thoughts on that.

[Matt]

No, we do have opinions. You know, my favorite thing is when we do veer a little bit too much into the political talk. And of course we get emails from folks and they're like, hey, guys. But what I love is when they incorrectly assume the opposite belief that we're on the other side of the aisle, basically. Because what that means is that I have approached this from like a neutral point of view. Like if the Republicans do something that's stupid, we talk about it. If the Democrats are saying something dumb, we're talking about.

[Joel]

And on the very rare occasion where either one of them does something that's mildly good, we talk about that too.

[Matt]

But usually it's not all negative here. But yes, like, and so that's a big part of why we don't talk about it directly. Is it? Who is it? Is it Michael Jordan who's just like.

[Joel]

Republicans buy sneakers too.

[Matt]

Yeah. So do Democrats.

[Joel]

Whatever.

[Matt]

Yeah, like that whole thing. So that's, that's how we try to approach talking about personal finance.

[Joel]

Yeah. And faith. So that being said, like, we're, we're regular churchgoers and our faith is an essential part of our lives. And it is amazing, Matt, how much the Bible talks about money. So how could you not be a Christian and have the Bible's like everything that you read in the scripture influence how you think and talk and react to money issues that come up in your life? There's like practical wisdom. Right. In the Proverbs. There's a lot of less practical, more heart related teaching that Jesus makes in the New Testament. And I want to say this too. If you're a listener and you've had, let's say, a bad experience with the church or you disagree with the claims of Christianity and you're like, oh, Matt Jeweller Christians, I don't know if I want to listen to them anymore. I think just know that we don't necessarily align ourselves with everybody who calls themselves a Christian publicly. And there's a lot of, I think, popular Christians who believe things differently than we believe. And there's also, I think it's important to mention there's a lot of helpful wisdom for handling money in the scriptures. Even if you're the kind of person that says, I don't really subscribe to that whole Christianity thing, I don't believe in miracles, blah, blah, blah. Just reading some parts of the scriptures can be really enlightening when it comes to how you think about money. I think there's a lot of wisdom there that's true.

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean, there are some very direct, like, practical things that you can learn from proverbs about. Specifically, proverbs in particular has a lot to say about money. For instance, that's why our family tithes 10% to our local church. And then we give even beyond that when we feel called to. So that's like a very, like, pragmatic, practical approach to, like, what you should do with your money according to what the Bible says.

[Joel]

Yeah, well. And people even come down varying beliefs on that, whether tithing is like. Yeah.

[Matt]

And at that point you're like, nitpicking, in my opinion. We don't, I don't personally like to get bogged down in the details instead, and you kind of touched on this, but like, the speaking to the heart and the heart of my faith comes down to loving God and loving your neighbor. And specifically because God is like this all sovereign, all powerful being, what that means and what that tells me is that. And this is the more sort of philosophical approach to how faith impacts how I live my life, as well as how I handle my money. But because everything I have is basically from God, what that means is that nothing I have is mine. And so especially when it comes to my personal net worth, the net worth of my family, my house, my retirement, my savings is not really mine. And so because of that.

[Joel]

And it's also incredibly temporal.

[Matt]

Yes, exactly. And so I guess the outflow of that kind of attitude is that I just have a very open posture. Like, I have very open hands to the things that are mine, quote, unquote, mine. And instead I'm called to steward those things. Well, it doesn't mean that I make foolish decisions. Like, I still try to be smart and wise and I work hard. Like, we're still called to be.

[Joel]

There's a lot in the proverbs about that too.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. Like faithfully diligent with the gifts that God has given me. But at the same time, at the end of the day, my faith tells me that it's not up to me. Like, at the end of the day, I don't have to earn my way to salvation or heaven or whatever it is that you think is in the afterlife. I believe that those are aspects that are completely controlled by God and that have already been satisfied. Yeah, I don't want to go down some long theological sermon here, but I felt like that was the most quasi generic way to talk about faith and just the overall posture of my heart and kind of how we relate to money.

[Joel]

One of the things you're hinting at a little bit is the reality of paradox in the Christian life. And I think that's actually one of the most fascinating things about being a Christian is like there's all. It's like many sides of a diamond or something like that, and you turn it over and you see new realities of it sparkling in the light. And that's how I feel about faith too, and about the scriptures is like the more I dive in, the more there is to kind of uncover and learn from. And what seems maybe really bold and emphatic on the surface might have a lot of layers underneath that are worth dissecting. And kind of goes to what you said, Matt. You said Jesus teaching is kind of. It's always. It's aimed at the heart. And there's even scripture passages about being generous, not with the poor and the downcast, although there is that. But even with your enemies. Right. Which is a countercultural thing. It goes against some of our most human instincts towards self protection. And I think that's why you and I, Matt, we talk purposefully about not looking to get rich, but to build wealth, which I think is very different, a very different mentality and why we should use money to spend on things we care about within reason. Like there are scriptures to back up all those things that we, that we kind of espouse here on the show. And we discuss the joy that giving money away can engender. It's obviously tough to filter all biblical teaching into our philosophy. And we use outside resources too, to help us think about money. Well, but because that's what we're trying to do, personally, I think it's inevitably going to come across in the content we create. There's just no way to kind of divorce the two completely.

[Matt]

Totally. And you touched on this quickly. But don't assume that because Joel and I are both practicing Christians, that We endorse everything that another Christian influencer or broadcaster or writer or someone on the Internet might say or that they might espouse. Because, I mean, obviously Christians aren't perfect, neither are we. But a lot of the incredibly vocal elements can just be at odds, I would say, with maybe what we believe, what we practice, if not in the content and what they're saying, at least in the tone. Right. Like, and sometimes in both it's being delivered. And sometimes. Sometimes both. But. But yeah, I don't know. I would totally recommend. Maybe there's a reason, Joel, that like the Bible has. There's been like an uptick in Bible sales over the past, like year or two compared to the past several decades even. There's been a lot.

[Joel]

Because more hotel rooms have been built, Matt. And they gotta put them in the top drawer.

[Matt]

No, I don't think so. I think it's. Yeah. Like, there's also been that flattening of folks who consider themselves nuns, not like a Catholic nun, but like none, as I don't practice in any. Any religion. And so a lot of folks are looking at that as like, oh, man, maybe there' be a pendulum swinging back to faith and folks practicing a more institutionalized style of religion.

[Joel]

Well, it hasn't a cultural obsession with money maybe pushed us back into that a little bit too, realizing maybe the lack of fulfillment that riches can provide, that there has to be more to this life than just a fatter net worth. Right. That's part of.

[Matt]

Why is this you announcing that we're changing how to money, how the money is converting to how to. How to Christian, how to faith. No, we're not planning to do that spin off podcast.

[Joel]

No. But thank you so much, Jonathan, for asking and yeah, looking forward to more deeper, ask me anything questions in the.

[Matt]

Near future or not so deep, like, what's your favorite ice cream flavor?

[Joel]

Yeah, that's right.

[Matt]

It can't all be how do you view the world?

[Joel]

That's true.

[Matt]

What's the lens that you view and judge everything through, Joel?

[Joel]

That's true, that's true. And honestly, we could probably talk about this subject in particular for many, many hours, but we will leave it there for now.

[Matt]

Try to keep it short.

[Joel]

Yeah, we've got more questions to get to though, including one about investing, one about cell phone usage overseas. We'll get to those right after this.

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

So if you want an all in one banking experience that lets you keep on banking on sign up today. Learn more@navy federal.org @navy federal, the members are the mission Navy Federal Credit Union insured by NCUA hey there folks. I am Matt.

[Joel]

And I'm Joel from the how to Money Show. Matt, it's April and I've got spring break on my mind. Please tell me you got something fun lined up.

[Matt]

Oh, dude. Typically I am a planner, but we're actually switching things up this year. We're going to go a bit more spontaneous. I've been searching on Airbnb for some inspiration. You know, we've narrowed it down to trying to find some warmer temperatures. We kind of got that spring fever. So we're gonna try to find something along the coast. Maybe, maybe some sand to dip my toes into.

[Joel]

I like it.

[Matt]

But how about you?

[Joel]

Okay, so we've actually got our plans locked in. I'm taking the fam to this charming little Bavarian style town called Helen. It's up in the Georgia mountains.

[Matt]

I know about Helen.

[Joel]

Yeah, well, I found the perfect cabin on Airbnb, complete with a hot tub, which I'm definitely gonna need after running a trail half marathon while I'm up there too.

[Matt]

Oh, that is right. I forgot about the half marathon. Man, it sounds like an adventure. And you know what? While you're enjoying that hot, you could actually have your own place listed on Airbnb, earning some extra cash while you are away.

[Joel]

True. And now with Airbnb's co host feature, I hear it's easier than ever for anyone who's been overwhelmed by the idea of hosting. A co host can do the hosting for you and help manage your reservations and your guests. Find a co [e-mail] host Ryan Reynolds.

[Matt]

Here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Meriwether]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail].

[Matt]

All right buddy, we are back from the break. It is now time for the Facebook question of the week, which is from Meriwether who wrote. I joined a new company last year and about 40% of my total compensation is a stock grant that vests quarterly over a few years. I'm also a new homeowner, $400,000 mortgage at a 5.8% interest rate. Prior to buying my home, my plan for those quarterly stock vests was to immediately trade into something like VT Sachs or VOO through my brokerage account. Now that I look at how much of my first few years of mortgage payments will go to interest, right now it's about 80%. I'm entertaining the idea of selling some of that stock as it vests and paying off some of the principal of my mortgage until I reach a certain loan to value. I'm at 9.6% right now for reference. The logical financially independently minded side of my brain says just dump it in the market. But I'm wondering if there's a little bit of nuance here in the first few years of my mortgage when that interest is front loaded. Additional information, emergency fund, 401k, HSA and traditional IRA are fully funded, which is major props. Let's just start right there. That's awesome.

[Joel]

And I also get Matt, when you take out a mortgage and if you look at the amortization schedule and you look at how much interest you're paying versus principal, it's shocking.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Especially in those initial years. You're like, is, am I putting anything towards the actual paying down of the loan balance? And the truth is, not really. In those days, banks are definitely getting.

[Matt]

Their money, aren't they?

[Joel]

Yeah. And that's why I think it is. If you take out a 30 year mortgage every time you move, if you're only there for five years, man, think about how little of a dent you've made in the balance of that loan. You've mostly been paying interest. So that's not fun. Which I get. And I want to say too, Meriwether's really smart here for not wanting to hold too much company stock. Right. Your head. Merriweather was in the right place, opting for an index fund instead. Because truth be told, the right amount of company stock to own is zero. Because you've already got so many eggs in that basket. That's where your paycheck comes from. You don't necessarily want significant holdings of stock in your company at the same time. So it is smart to do something different with that money as it vests. Although be sure to keep tax consequences in mind too.

[Matt]

That is true.

[Joel]

Just because of taxes, though I would not want to hold far too much company stock. I would rather, I think, pay tax. That's necessary in order to pivot my.

[Matt]

Investments, unload and diversify. Totally. Yeah. But the heart of Meriwether's question, I don't think it has a super clear answer. Because you can't lose dumping it into the market if you plan to hold on to those investments for decades to come. But because of where your mortgage is at as far as interest rate and your loan to value ratio goes, you are likely paying PMI private mortgage insurance. And so I like the idea of taking this quarterly stock fests and using them as a way to pay down your principal quickly. At least until you get the range of like 20%, 22% loan to value, allowing you to rid yourself of that super annoying pmi. Because you're not only reducing the life of the loan by doing this, you're also getting rid of that extra fee a lot more quickly. And it's almost like there's like this, there's a lightweight finish line right there at the, you know, at the 20% to 22% range where it would, Is that what, that's when it automatically drops off.

[Joel]

22% is typically where it automatically falls off. You can petition to hit that time.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel]

But if you think like let's say the value of your home has gone up and the loan.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, but that's just a great goal to strive after that and then maybe beyond that, just kind of pump your brakes at this point, 100%.

[Joel]

I think that's a wise move. And then, then once you get there, that's when you invest more instead of continuing to pay down the mortgage. Because we don't, we don't want you to pay off the mortgage and just go hog wild with those stock vestments and just say, oh, I'm going to get rid of this mortgage as quickly as possible. We really don't even want you to go beyond getting rid of that private mortgage insurance. We just want you to make that your first goal. And then Once PMI is eradicated, then take those future stock grants and ramp up your investments in a diversified way. Of course. It's kind of a both end approach. Right. Where you're going to be attacking this problem, which is a good problem to have with an optimized approach. I think this is at least what I would do, Matt. I would want to pay down that mortgage especially. We're talking about 5.8%, we're talking about PMI. Let's front load some of that mortgage payoff and then let's back off, pay only what's agreed and invest with those additional dollars.

[Matt]

That's right. Let's take another quick one from Hadeel who wrote recommendations for an affordable cell phone provider with international options. Thank you. What do you think, Joel? So maybe you just ditch the phone altogether and just go with old school Italy on the shoestring. Get your paper map.

[Joel]

There you go. Get the Rick Steves book.

[Matt]

Heck yeah.

[Joel]

And then get a carrier pigeon. If you want to send messages to your friends and loved ones, you don't.

[Matt]

Need to send messages.

[Joel]

That is one choice.

[Matt]

Just. Yeah, throw it old school. Not even all that old school like only 20 years ago.

[Joel]

That's true.

[Matt]

You know, like you couldn't do that 20 years ago. No.

[Joel]

And now it's expected. Once you were able to call, it was like crazy expensive and now the price has gone down. But that doesn't mean that the price is insignificant, at least with some carriers. So let's discuss. I love the idea of having all your cell phone service under one roof with a US based provider. I think that would make things easiest for most people, but sadly that's just too expensive in most cases. It's just not the frugal move. The big cell phone companies, they tend to charge a daily, a weekly or a monthly fee. I think like Verizon charges like 12 bucks a day to use your phone overseas, which, I mean when you think about what it used to be, it's like, oh, that's pretty cheap. But when you think about what other competitors are offering, it's actually really expensive. And that can, that can add up. Let's say we're talking about a multi week trip. And so Matt, you and I, we tried using Mint Mobile's plan when we were in Scotland. Our data ran out what felt like instantly the first day. Yeah. And it wasn't cheap and it just felt insufficient. The only carrier that includes international coverage in the monthly cost at a fairly reasonable rate I think is Google Fi. And so the best price you get the best price from them if you have four lines that you're looking to move over. But I think if you don't travel regularly, let's say this is a one time a year, one week a year sort of thing. There's just no need to pay more every month. Even at Google fi's pretty solid rates.

[Matt]

Yeah. And of course we got to talk about US Mobile because they've got the lowest monthly price that we found. They also similar to Google Fi, they've got these premium plans that include some international data calling and texting while you are kicking it overseas, while you're abroad. But those more expensive plans likely only make sense if you also have a smartwatch because of the way their pricing works. And then if you go like, if you are traveling only like once or twice a year, like why would you then pay for the enhanced coverage 12 months out of the year? That's not likely going to be the case for most folks. And so your best bet is going to be to go with a third party ESIM seller because of how incredibly easy they've made it. You don't have to scramble and find a local provider once you land. It's so incredibly affordable. It's the slam dunk. It's the slam dunk option.

[Joel]

I remember when people first started going overseas and they, yeah, they would find a local.

[Matt]

Typically it was like a corner bodega or something like yeah, you just gotta find something nearby.

[Joel]

They would get the physical sim, they would pop out the one from their phone, they pop the new one in and they were able to save a good bit of money going using their phone overseas, almost using it like they were a local where they were traveling to, which was cool. And now ESIMS just said like, hold my beer, this is gonna be. We're gonna make this way way easier. And so Airalo in particular seems to be the best of the bunch. But feel free to shop around. And I love that under I was looking at their website, Matt. You can really just kind of buy what you need, right? They have ladder like options. So oh, hey, I needed to, I need this many gigs of data, this much calling and texting and you can say, well, here's what I think I'm going to need or here's what I think I'm going to need. And you can just choose based on your budget and how much you think you're going to use. Just remember you're likely going to have WI Fi where you're staying and at restaurants if you need it. That's that's also a nice perk is that it's, it's easier, just kind of even stumble upon a WI fi network and hop on if you wing it. If you got to do a couple things. Yeah. But it is, I think, nice to have some connectivity while you're walking around. But instead of paying 12 bucks a day or if you don't need tons of data, you can get by paying something like $10 a month. So that's how big of a price difference it can be. Very nice going with airalo instead of going with your provider, your US based provider. And so you're going to get a better deal if you buy your ESIM for a specific country. But if you're going to multiple countries in Europe, for instance, you can buy a regional sim. It just costs a little bit more. So if you know, hey, I'm only going to Scotland and you buy the Scotland sim, you're going to save money versus getting kind of the Euro esim. But if you're going to multiple countries, that's probably going to be the best option too.

[Matt]

Yeah. Another option too, if you're traveling with a group of folks and you're all wanting data, is to have a separate device. So you are, you know, you've got cellular data being provided to that device and then everyone can just tap into that one singular pocket router, essentially. So that's a way to even save even more as opposed to everyone kind of doing their own esim, which is great, especially if you've got kids and multiple devices.

[Joel]

And just think about how like before you take off, you can, or while you're in the air or whatever, literally in the settings of your phone go and switch.

[Matt]

So easy.

[Joel]

The provider that you're using, you've already loaded the Airalo up to your phone and that way. Yeah, you're not even like. I've heard horror stories of people turning on their phone and all these texts come through and they're charging a massive amount of money. It's like you don't even have to wait until you land and deal with that possibility.

[Matt]

I love it, man. All right. The beer that you and I enjoyed today is called, like I mentioned earlier, Birdie Putt, which is the beer by Six Bridges. This is a brewery that's here quasi local to us. It's over in Johns Creek. Dude, was this beer even wet? It was so dry. This was like, I mean, they're calling it a pilsner. So it was totally a pilsner. It had this pilsner Flavors, but. But it's like it was evaporating off my tongue that before I had a.

[Joel]

Chance to swallow it, to me, I thought this was one of the best pilsners I've had in a long time.

[Matt]

Super duper refreshing. But I could not believe how dry was. Feels more like a novelty, like something maybe you'd expect from a brewery who does a lot of pilsners, like abroad. Speaking of abroad, like overseas. That kind of thing. But it really surprised me for this to be something that these guys were offering. Super unique, though.

[Joel]

I really dug it. So the one word I couldn't get out of my mind drinking this beer was biscuity. I swear, it just tasted like I was eating a biscuit, but in liquid form. And I love biscuits, man, so I really enjoy this beer.

[Matt]

Have you been to Stilesboro Biscuits? It's like a local.

[Joel]

No.

[Matt]

Have you heard of this place?

[Joel]

No.

[Matt]

It's like a mom and pop place that's only open like two days a week or something like that.

[Joel]

I guess I got to get over.

[Matt]

There, look it up. I have not yet been able to make it happen because, like I said, it's never open.

[Joel]

But when Emily and I were in Austin, I guess a month ago now, we had a biscuit there.

[Matt]

Oh, that's right.

[Joel]

Was just intense.

[Matt]

Biscuit Boy.

[Joel]

So good.

[Matt]

Was that the name of the place?

[Joel]

Paper Boy.

[Matt]

Paper Boy. That's it.

[Joel]

Great. Little expensive brunch restaurant in Austin. Well worth going to, though.

[Matt]

Very nice. All right, that's going to be it for this episode. You can find our show notes up on the [e-mail] and that's going to be it, buddy. So until next time, Best friends out. Best friends out. Joel, we've all got different tasks in life that we enjoy doing. For me, that would be closing out the books on our family's personal finances every month.

[Joel]

Nerd.

[Matt]

But then there are some chores that are more of a pain, and for me, that would be grocery shopping, something I try and avoid if at all possible.

[Joel]

Well, that's where Walmart steps in, because their subscriptions help you to stay stocked on the items you use most, whether that's milk and eggs or kitty litter and cleaning supplies. Find everything you need for your home at Walmart, in stores, online, and in the app.

[Meriwether]

You know that feeling when you're about to score 30% off. But they want your number. Ugh. Give them your line 2 number instead. It's a second line on your phone, perfect for nabbing promo codes without inviting spam. To your party. Sign up for every discount under the sun, then block the junk techs that follow. You get all the perks, but none of the spammy baggage. More codes, less chaos. Visit line2.com audio or download line2 in the app Store and get your shopping sidekick today, because the only thing blowing up your phone should be good deals.

[Joel]

It's nostalgia overload, as Wilmer Valderrama and.

[Matt]

Freddie Rodriguez welcome another amigo to their podcast, Dos Amigos. Wilmer's friend and former that 70s show castmate Topher Grace stops by the speakeasy for a two part interview to discuss.

[Joel]

His career and reminisce about old times.

[Matt]

Times we were still in that place of like, what will this experience become? And you go, you're having the best time. But it was like such a perfect golden time. Listen to Dos amigos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.