← How to Money
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- [00:00]
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- [00:32]
Joel
Even if you're a money whiz, it.
- [00:34]
Matt
Can still be helpful to have some.
- [00:36]
Joel
Professional backup and advice. I talk about personal finance every day.
- [00:40]
Matt
Of my life and I was still able to get massive value chatting with.
- [00:45]
Joel
A CFP from Domain Money. They analyze every aspect of your financial life and help you build a personalized plan with clear steps to to reach each one of your goals.
- [00:56]
Jessica Morehouse
That's right. And for a limited time, they're doing.
- [00:58]
Co-Host
Free 30 minute strategy sessions. So start today by booking a free strategy session with one of their experts by going to domainmoney.com howtomoney I am.
- [01:08]
Joel
A current client of Domain Money. I received a financial plan as part of the compensation for Domain Money's advertising on the podcast. And therefore I have an incentive to promote Domain Money.
- [01:17]
Jessica Morehouse
Hey, this is Joel and Matt from the how to Money podcast.
- [01:21]
Matt
My kids, Matt, they've got a few long weekends coming up, so I'm looking.
- [01:24]
Joel
Forward to taking a few trips with my those breaks.
- [01:27]
Jessica Morehouse
Nice.
- [01:27]
Co-Host
Yeah.
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Jessica Morehouse
And while you're away, you can host your house on Airbnb. Thanks to the Airbnb Co Host feature.
- [01:33]
Co-Host
Hosting is now easier than ever.
- [01:34]
Jessica Morehouse
You can access a network of high quality local co hosts who can help you get your home ready for guests. Find a co host@airbnb.com host welcome to how to Money.
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Joel
I'm Joel.
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Jessica Morehouse
I'm Matt.
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Matt
And today we're talking about breaking the hidden barriers to financial freedom with Jessica Morehouse.
- [02:10]
Jessica Morehouse
Yeah, we're joined today by Jessica Morehouse, who. Okay, so she started out as a blogger. She was looking for a creative outlet and a way to hold herself accountable with her finances.
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Co-Host
And she's now a financial counselor. She's a speaker and host of her own podcast, More Money. She is also the author of the new book Everything but the Hidden Barriers.
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Jessica Morehouse
Between youn and Financial Freedom. And Jessica is just all about providing easy to understand advice delivered in a non judgmental way. And she believes that there is a lot of stuff that gets in the way of us being able to achieve our financial goals. So yeah, maybe most folks already know.
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Co-Host
How to invest, but what they need is help with a trauma, maybe from their upbringing. That's just one of the topics we're.
- [02:52]
Jessica Morehouse
Hoping to cover today with Jessica.
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Co-Host
Thank you for coming on how to Money.
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Jessica Morehouse
Thank you for having me. Are you ready to talk about your trauma?
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Joel is. I'm not.
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Matt
I've been unearthing it for many years, Jessica. So we no need to go there on this episode, I don't think.
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Jessica Morehouse
Yeah, we don't have enough time.
- [03:09]
Matt
That is exactly right. That's exactly right. Our first question to everyone who comes on, though, is what do you like to splurge on? Because Matt and I, we like to spend a good bit of money on good craft beer.
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Joel
But.
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Matt
But hey, we're still doing the smart thing, saving and investing for our futures. What is that splurge item for you?
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Jessica Morehouse
I'd say in the past couple years. I do like an expensive cocktail. And they can be really expensive where I live in Toronto, like 20 bucks.
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And that's an expensive drink.
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I know, it's ridiculous. You're like, that's a meal. But you're like. But it's also a delicious martini. So, yeah, I like a good cocktail martini. A really bougie, ridiculous. Yeah, I love martini. That's my go to drink.
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Gin or vodka?
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A gin. All right.
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You wanna hear my newest take on the gin martini? Is typically to make it dirty.
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Matt
She's been telling everyone who will list.
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Jessica Morehouse
Well, I've only told you. I literally, I made it for Kate and I the other night. So typically, if you make it dirty, so you add the olive. We didn't have olives, but we had some capers in our fridge.
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Co-Host
And so I in the shaker.
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Jessica Morehouse
I'm a shaker, not a stirrer for two martinis. Did a couple spoons of capers in.
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Co-Host
There with some of the brine, shook.
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Jessica Morehouse
It, strained it over a little sieve to clean it out and filter it in the cocktail.
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Co-Host
Oh, my goodness. So stinking good.
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Jessica Morehouse
Oh, good.
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So I'm not sure if you like yours dirty or not.
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I don't. I despise all this is. I've tried a dirty martini because it is. It sounds classier. And I'm like, this is disgusting. I'm just not into olives. So I'm always with a twist. Always with a twist.
- [04:28]
Co-Host
Okay, fair enough.
- [04:29]
Jessica Morehouse
Well, there's a nice little lemon aromatic that you get with that. Man. When did we. Maybe we should start like a whole, like, sub how to Money where we do cocktails instead of.
- [04:37]
Oh, my gosh.
- [04:38]
I would listen Craft beer. Jessica let's talk about your book. Everything. I was almost gonna say everything but the money. But no, everything but money.
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Co-Host
You admit in the introduction to your.
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Jessica Morehouse
Book that the reason you wanted wealth was.
- [04:52]
Co-Host
Was to be seen to be loved.
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Jessica Morehouse
Can you tell us about that realization? Because I'm curious, how common is it for folks to build wealth in order to maybe attempt to soothe some of those hidden emotions and some of that past pain?
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I mean, we can look to some of the interesting billionaires out there right now that keep on doing some interesting things with their money instead of, I don't know, sharing the wealth and helping people in need just instead of buying really expensive yachts. So, yeah, I did not expect to write this book in a way that it kind of became where I share a lot of my own personal story. When I got this book deal, I kind of pitched it as a, yeah, I'm gonna, you know, help readers kind of discover their money story and the relationship with money help them. And it just naturally. How I wrote the book, it really was from intro all the way to the end. I did it in sequence. And I've never written a book before, did not know the right or wrong way to do it. I just started writing, and it just kind of started flowing out of me. The intro was like, all right, this is. I'm thinking. And it was true that in. It was the winter of 2022, I was supposed to go back home to Vancouver to visit my family for the holidays, and I got sick with COVID It was my first time having Covid, and it was brutal. And I isolated from my husband because he had not gotten it, and I didn't want to get him sick. And so I had a lot of time on my own with my deep, dark thoughts. And what I realized was I was so not happy with my life, even though on the outside it looked absolutely fine. I have a very loud inner critic, and no matter what I achieved, whether it was in my career or with my money, I never felt satisfied. I was always comparing myself to, I'll find someone who was doing better than me and compare myself to that person's journey, even though we're on different paths. And I don't know why I'm comparing myself to that person and then just feel like crap because I'm like, well, you didn't do this, though. You didn't do this. You could be doing better. You should work harder, et cetera, et cetera. And so I realized, actually, I've always had this thought in the back of my mind that I should be doing better or more, and there's someone else doing more than you, and, you know, you should feel so bad about that. And I realized that I've been kind of on that path for. Since childhood, and I had to do some introspection on why is that, why do I feel not good enough? And there's many reasons. You know, part of it was being a middle child and, you know, kind of falling into that role of being overlooked because I had a younger sister who, you know, needed a lot of attention when she was younger. Obviously, then there was my older sibling, and I just kind of faded into the background because that's. That was my coping mechanism instead of asking for what I needed, which was more attention, more quality care, and things like that. And the other component was I also was just the worst picker of friends. I would gravitate towards certain people with certain energies, people that had, you know, a lot of confidence or just were more extroverted because I'm typically, you know, pretty introverted. And these people would also. What I also realized after doing some therapy, I was very attracted to people with specific types of trauma that would have high highs, low lows, very inconsistent people. You know, I talk about attachment theory in the book, and for a long time, I was always attracted to people who were avoidance. So people that, you know, show you a lot of care and love and then back off. And it's just like that cat and mouse kind of. And I loved it until I'd always get burned, and then I'd try to find new friends that were similar. And so I was dealing with all this stuff and figuring this out about myself. And that was kind of where I wanted to start with the book, to just be like, hey, I've been doing this kind of money expert thing, content creator thing in financial education for over a decade, and I am not perfect, and I've got my wounds, and I have a very complicated relationship with money. So let's go on this journey together because I think we've all got our stuff that we need to work through.
- [08:58]
Matt
Most people, like, in a lot of the things you just described, whether it's, you know, childhood issues, middle child. I just talked a lot to get attention when I was a middle child, too, but. And it worked. But the.
- [09:10]
Joel
There are.
- [09:11]
Matt
We don't necessarily associate some of the things that you mentioned not having a hard time finding great friends with, maybe the end result of an awkward relationship with your money or a bad relationship towards spending, saving, or investing. How do you think about bad habits? Maybe versus unexplored emotions and how those impact how we handle money.
- [09:34]
Jessica Morehouse
Yeah. I think when you start doing that digging of figuring out what your kind of past is and who you are at your core, and then some of the traumas that you've experienced or witnessed that have impacted you that you haven't healed from, we can use multiple things to try to soothe ourselves, to regulate our emotions, to make us feel better. Sometimes that's food, sometimes that's alcohol, sometimes that's drugs, sometimes that's fitness, but sometimes it's money. And that really doesn't get that much attention. But I mean, I, as a financial counselor who, you know, has worked with a number of people, especially with spending issues or they're in debt, I would find over and over, you're not a bad person or you're. You didn't get into debt because you didn't know what you were getting yourself into. You didn't. You had the financial knowledge to not do that, but you did it anyway. Why is that? It's because you were. You were using money as a coping mechanism to try to soothe yourself or try to heal. Because, you know, whenever you buy something, you feel a little bit better about yourself, you get a little bit of boost of confidence that dopamine hit, but then that goes away. And so you need to repeat the cycle over and over. But it doesn't have to be just spending. It could be the opposite. And that's kind of where I fell into a little bit, especially in my 20s, which was over saving, underspending, not taking care of myself and kind of not. Not being a martyr exactly. But finding that I liked the control of. I felt more in control when I, you know, was very strict with my budget and said no a lot. Because I'm like, there's some pride in me. Like, no, I'm not going to do that because I'm doing something more important with my money instead of going out with friends to dinner or something like that, which also isn't healthy because you should never feel better or worse, depending on how you spend or don't spend your money. You need to have some balance. And I think most people fall into some sort of extreme, and that's never a healthy place to live in long term.
- [11:36]
Co-Host
Can you speak to the specific childhood.
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Jessica Morehouse
Money memories that we might have that inform our relationship to money as adults?
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Yeah, I can share mine, but I'd be curious what yours are if you've ever been asked that before, because that's the most interesting thing. I keep getting Asked on an interviews, hey, let's talk about the money story. Because so many people are like this got me thinking about mine. No one's ever asked me that. I've never thought about it. So I kind of start off the book by let's explore how you feel about money. And let's go back to your first money memory, which was your first interaction with money. And guess what? It usually happens very early in childhood. For me, it was four years old. And I've always had a relationship with money that was always very tightly connected to shame. And I always wondered, why is that? Why do I always feel so ashamed about who I am and where I'm at financially, even when I'm in a decent place? And then I looked back at, okay, what was my first money memory? And then it just, you know, came to me while I was writing, like, oh, well, there was the gumball at the grocery store. I was kid at the grocery store with my mom loved going because if I behaved she would treat me to a donut. And I also loved, you know, walking in the bulk aisle just to take a look at all the different candy. But I knew I wasn't supposed to touc. But then one day I'm like, eh, she's not looking and what's the harm? Adults, you know, papa sample into their mouths all the time. I'm going to steal a gumball. So I did was way too big for me to chew at 4 years old. So I just like kept it in my cheeks like a squirrel hoarding nuts. And when we're walk walking to the parking lot because she hadn't really noticed yet because I was, I guess, hiding my face. She popped the trunk, put the groceries in and then she saw my also, I was completely blue in the face. Just like from the sticky blue gumball all over. Cause I was sticky kid. And she's like, what are you doing? And she, you know, I have vivid memory. And of course she's like, I do not remember this at all. I'm like, course not is a core memory for me, not for you. But she dragged me back to the grocery store, made me spit it out and said, we don't steal things. You cannot do this. We have to pay for things like this. And the other kind of component besides feeling ashamed for stealing was I also felt like we can't look like we cannot afford something because there's a lot of shame in looking like you're poor. And there still is. We have a lot of judgment on people who are low income, which is terrible. And so there's a lot of kind of layers of shame and money or the lack of money that I've brought from that first interaction as a child into adulthood. So with that, I want to ask you both, do you either. Can you think of what maybe your first money memory might be?
- [14:12]
Co-Host
Oh, yeah.
- [14:13]
Jessica Morehouse
We've talked about here on the show. I would say I had a fairly surprisingly healthy upbringing when it came to money being paid for the things that I worked for. And maybe you would say that that's not healthy, but it certainly instilled sort of a work e. You get money and you are a good manager of your money. I don't know all the kind of things that we talk about, at least here on the show.
- [14:34]
Matt
Yeah, mine I've talked about as well. Far less healthy. And my parents had a lot of financial struggles when I was a kid in a really impressionable age. They argued about money, and then eventually we had a car repossessed. My dad lost. Lost a job. And they were just kind of this cascading, like, sequence of events in the personal finance space in our family's life that left an indelible impression on me. And so it's almost like I think of, like, the Men in Black memory eraser stick. I don't remember any money things before that, but that is, like, my distinct recollection of money. And it's. It's a big impact on me.
- [15:15]
Jessica Morehouse
I've had to work that stuff out there.
- [15:16]
Matt
Yeah, I've had to work that stuff out in adulthood for sure. To have, like, a healthy relationship with money and not just kind of a. A scarcity attachment.
- [15:22]
Jessica Morehouse
Yeah, and that's easy. I mean, I have definitely battled scarcity, and that's so common to so many people. I. I encounter battle scarcity, and it's because I. They either personally experience that as a child or they witness their parents kind of experiencing that. Or I even talk about in the book about generational trauma where you can inherit it, and maybe it's all through. Maybe it's all of those things combined. And that was kind of my experience, which makes it very difficult to try to have an abundance mindset manifest. You're like, yeah, that's not as easy for me as it could be for you.
- [15:56]
Matt
Sure.
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Co-Host
So do you think that folks don't.
- [15:58]
Jessica Morehouse
Take enough time to, I guess, connect some of those memories, some of those narratives that we've all experienced as kids to how it is that we currently handle our finances?
- [16:09]
Oh, absolutely. Like, that's been the interesting thing. The book as we're recording has been out for about three weeks. And the feedback I've gotten from so many people, all these emails and DMs, is, oh, my God. I've never thought there was a connection between my childhood trauma and my money, but now that you mention it, it makes so much sense. And that's exactly what I wanted, is for people to make those connections. Because often the. Especially with traditional personal finance advice and some of the loud voices in the space, the old voices in the space that you may know who I'm talking about, they put the blame on the individual. You're not doing this. You're not working hard enough, you're not motivated enough, you're not smart stuff. You're bad for doing this with your money. And that's not the case. I find when I work with individuals, something else is going on. There's some reason they keep on messing up and they know they're messing up and they don't want to, but they keep doing it. And it's not because shame's also not.
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Matt
A great motivator for most people.
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Jessica Morehouse
Right.
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Matt
They really suck. It's not usually one of those things that says, you know what I do, let me go, like, improve myself.
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Jessica Morehouse
Yeah. Like, if someone says, wow, you really put on some pounds, does that motivate you to go the gym?
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No.
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It makes you feel really bad and you probably will just cry about it. Like, that's my experience anyway. If someone, you know, shames me in that way, it doesn't motivate me to improve my situation. But unfortunately, that's a lot of the kind of messaging and the tone out there is using that tactic of shame. And that's why I really want to be gentle in my book, because I'm not super gentle with myself sometimes in my mind, but I want to have a space where people can be vulnerable with themselves in this book and also feel guided by someone who is like, there's no shame or blame in this book. You're not going to hear that, that tone of voice at all here.
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Matt
So it sounds like we probably need to have, like, think through those stories that inform our money beliefs. We probably need to assign some specific emotions to kind of what we went through and how we now maybe relate to money. And then what do we do with that? Like, we've got the feelings maybe outlined, we've got some of our actual kind of of childhood data infused into that. Where do we go from there?
- [18:21]
Jessica Morehouse
When you start understanding your past, your kind of origin story with money, how it's kind of continued as you get into adulthood. And then start putting labels on some of the feelings that you have about money. And there's a whole chapter on the different feelings. I mean, there's a ton of feelings out there, obviously, but the main ones that I see people connect with money is shame, guilt, fear, anxiety, envy, and despair. Those are kind of the. The most common ones. When you kind of make all those connections. Now you're at a place where you can start kind of writing what your current money story is. And that's the narrative that you've been telling yourself up until now about you and money, what you can and cannot achieve, what's your potential, or, you know, just some of the things that are holding you back. Some of the behaviors and habits, values that you've maybe adopted from your childhood that you, you know, I never noticed, I. Or the things that actually, because of your childhood, you went the complete opposite direction and rebelled against maybe what you saw your parents do. And so that's why you do this and this, which maybe also isn't healthy. Again, I find a lot of people that are struggling with their relationship with money, it's because they're stuck in some sort of extreme, and we want to come to a place that makes more sense. You're more logical, rational, less emotional about money, so you can start taking better care of your money and yourself. But you need to be able to outline and really kind of figure out what is the blueprint I've been using with my money up until now so we can see what do we want to change? How can we renovate this house so it's a better representation of where I actually want to be with my money?
- [20:00]
You mentioned rebelling against maybe the stories or maybe even some of the values that were explicitly taught to you as a kid within your family. Like, I think it's understandable why we tend to adopt those values and those stories. Right. Like, we're raised by parents, parents who hopefully love us and hopefully most listeners, they love their parents. Like, it has a large impact on how you view the world. But for someone listening and they've identified.
- [20:26]
Co-Host
That, you know what, maybe they didn't.
- [20:27]
Jessica Morehouse
Handle their finances the best. Aside from that, Like, I guess, what strategies or steps would you recommend for folks who are looking to essentially rewrite their money story? Like, how do you go about doing that?
- [20:39]
Yeah, I'd say really lay out. Yeah. What are some of your feelings, the patterns you're seeing, the habits, the behaviors, values, all that stuff. Write it all down. And I Do have some exercises in the book to kind of ask you some questions so it can kind of jog your memory so you can kind of write down everything and then take a step back to take a look at what's working and what's not. Like, just the other day, I just had this realization that I adopted this idea, and my husband is the same. He's like, oh, yeah, I do that, too. Where I think you were a complete chump, or I'm a complete chump if I buy something that's not on sale. Because I was. Was taught or not even directly. I think I just observed that my mom always bought things on sale, but never buy anything that is full price, because while, you know, it's being marked up anyway, and it's not worth that anyway, I'm just gonna wait for it to be on sale. That's how you know you're gonna get a good deal. Otherwise, you're, you know, being hoodwinked and, you know, being paying too much for that thing.
- [21:33]
All right, I'll tell Joel why he's wrong.
- [21:36]
Matt
Jessica, I do feel like you're stepping on my toes right now. Jessica.
- [21:40]
Jessica Morehouse
Yes. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. And there's nothing wrong with the deal. Hey, I still love a good deal, But I realized there are certain things that I wanted and could afford, and there was no reason I shouldn't buy it. And I, like, felt guilty for even thinking of purchasing it because it wasn't on sale. That's illogical. That's an illogical thing to bring with me from childhood to adulthood. There's so many great things that you could be buying, especially from, like, amazing small businesses and, you know, artists and things like that that will never be on sale. So that means you're limiting yourself from not spending your money in that way because of this one thing. So.
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Matt
So let's be honest. Sales often give us the permission to buy something we shouldn't buy. Right, Too. So fueling that consumeristic lifestyle and mindset.
- [22:20]
Jessica Morehouse
Exactly. And so I realized, for me, I'm like, that's something I need to let go of. Or even when I said my kind of thing that I like to splurge on is cocktails. Oh, my gosh. I would have never in a million years said that in my 20s or even early 30s, I was the person that go to a restaurant, look at the cheapest thing on the menu, and that's what I was gonna get. And that just became a habit I didn't even realize I had. It was just so second nature until I'm like, what if you want to eat something different? Why are you always going for the burger when you want the chicken or something? And you can always. Yeah, I don't know. But it's just like these are things I, that are not serving me and they're holding me back from maybe some, a great experience or something joyful or something nice. And it's not going to ruin my retirement, you know, spending 5 extra dollars or 10 extra dollars when again, it's in my budget. So. And something that I can fully do. And so it's really about laying out what's working, what's not, and then also maybe adding some stuff. What would you like to include? What are you not doing that you've always wanted to do with your money? And that could be. You know, a lot of people I encounter are really focused on saving, but they haven't really gotten to that investing component, which is so vital. That is the only way you're gonna build wealth and achieve those really big, lofty dreams of maybe, you know, quitting your job one day or retiring early or just retiring at all. But so many people are maybe afraid to even get started or to learn about it because the lessons they maybe learned were, oh, no, investing's risky. You're gonna lose all your money. And just look at the neighbors. They lost their, you know, investments in the last crash. So don't even bother. Just put your money in the bank and, you know, some safe investments. And that's something that you may have to also be like, yeah, we're, we're not gonna do that. And we're gonna add in this new component of we need to invest for our future.
- [24:06]
Matt
Yeah. It's amazing, too how different people grow up in different ways, and so they have completely different money stories. And yet it takes a lot of kind of going back in time to figure out what they are, how they've informed how you live. Today. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about actually trauma and how that impacts how people think about their finances and act with money. We'll get into more of that with Jessica Morehouse right after this.
- [24:36]
Jessica Morehouse
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- [24:38]
Co-Host
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Jessica Morehouse
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Co-Host
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Joel
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- [26:31]
Joel
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Matt
Cost you time and money.
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Joel
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Co-Host
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Matt
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Joel
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- [27:05]
Co-Host
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Jessica Morehouse
Personally, I felt such a relief, just.
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Co-Host
A weight off of my back once.
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Jessica Morehouse
I was able to check that off.
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Co-Host
My to do list a few years ago. It is A great idea to keep your family prepared and protected by managing your will or trust online.
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Jessica Morehouse
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Jessica Morehouse
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Co-Host
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Joel
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- [27:57]
Matt
All right.
- [27:57]
Jessica Morehouse
We are back from the break, speaking with Jessica Morehouse. And Jessica, so before the break, you were kind of talking about some of the loudest voices in the personal finance space. It's kind of like when you're talking about, like, the blame game a little bit. And you've got a chapter titled it's.
- [28:13]
Co-Host
Not you, it's your trauma.
- [28:15]
Jessica Morehouse
And there's a quote from that section. You say, we all need to take ownership of the financial decisions we make, but if those decisions keep driving us.
- [28:23]
Co-Host
Into a bigger debt hole each month.
- [28:26]
Jessica Morehouse
And we have no idea why or.
- [28:28]
Co-Host
How to stop it, we need to consider that there's something deeper going on.
- [28:31]
Jessica Morehouse
And I almost wanted to interject earlier, but talk about, I guess, the balance.
- [28:35]
Co-Host
Of personal responsibility on one hand as.
- [28:39]
Jessica Morehouse
Opposed to this past hardship that a.
- [28:41]
Co-Host
Lot of us have experienced.
- [28:43]
Jessica Morehouse
Yeah. So, yeah, there's a couple other parts of that section that I think are really helpful. Just to kind of always remind yourself is, number one, understanding your money story and your trauma and how it impacts your financial life and your financial decisions is not an excuse. It's an explanation. And a lot of us are just lacking that explanation. And the other part, which I really love and I remind myself of this all the time, is you are not bad with money. And we need to stop asking ourselves, what's wrong with me? And maybe instead start asking ourselves what happened to me? Because usually we think that we're doing something wrong because we're, you know, I'm dumb. I'm, I'm just bad with money. That's a common thing, I hear. It's not that money is a skill that anyone can learn. I do not have. I did not start from a financial background. I went to film school. I was an art school kid, a very artsy school I went to and then graduated and knew nothing about money. And it was The Great Recession, 2009. And I'm like, oh, shoot, how do I pay off my student loans? How do I, like, live and pay rent? I have no idea. And lo and behold, I found personal finance blogs, started educating myself, and again, I was never into science or math. That was. I was always like, English, arts. That was kind of my brain and I was able to learn it and find the parts that really connected with me. So I believe anyone can learn anything about money. But with that said, sometimes things come easier to certain people depending on are you secure with money or insecure with money. And that's just to say that did you have. Was, you know, money kind of represented or a healthy role in your family? It was, you know, represented as something that this is a tool that you can do whatever you want with. It can provide a lot of security and freedom and it's a good thing. But a lot of us grew up in households where money wasn't a positive character in our lives. It was something that was always holding us back. It forced us to say no a lot. It was always the reason we couldn't do something instead of allowing us to do something. And so by better understanding the role that trauma has with your finances, I think that can really open the door to get that explanation that you really need and, and to kind of go more into what trauma means. It's just another word for emotional wound that you have not healed yet. And we all have them, unfortunately. It could be really tiny. It could be really big. There is big T trauma and little T trauma, and everyone is a. And you can even be traumatized by just witnessing something, not even experiencing it. And like I mentioned, you could also inherit it from some of your ancestors. And so there's a lot of different traumas that you may have inside you that may be holding you back. And, you know, happy to, you know, you can jump in anytime because I can go on and on about this.
- [31:34]
Matt
It might be smaller than trauma, but just I'm thinking about people's different personality types or just abilities and neurodivergence.
- [31:42]
Joel
Right.
- [31:43]
Matt
I'm thinking of, of my kids and their birth order and how they have different skills. And sometimes that skill manifests itself as being really great in school, and other times it's like, I'm really great socially, but school is not my strong suit right now. And so, like, something like ADHD can play a role even in our finances. I'm thinking about my middle kid right now, and I'm just like, oh, man.
- [32:07]
Joel
What'S this going to look like for her?
- [32:08]
Matt
It's going to look. Her relationship with money is just going to look different, different Differently than it does for her older sister, even though.
- [32:14]
Joel
They grew up in the same house with the same parents, with a lot.
- [32:16]
Matt
Of the same money conversations going on. So how would you say, because you wrote about this in the book, how are people who struggle with, like, adhd, whether they know it or not, impacted on the financial front?
- [32:26]
Jessica Morehouse
Yeah, so this is a topic that I've, you know, I, I think it's great. That's becoming a lot more open in conversation, especially online in the personal finance community. A lot of content creators, financial content creators, have adhd. It's becoming, I'm not sure if it's. And I kind of talk about this in the book, whether it's, you know, ADHD is more common than it was or people are just being properly diagnosed and there's just more information and data. But if you do have adhd, money is going to be different for you than someone who does not have it because you are operating with a different system. And you may need to put some different systems in place so you can properly manage your money in a way that makes sense for you. And I also talk about in the book how there's also a huge link between ADHD and trauma because they actually share a lot of the same symptoms. So sometimes, you know, you may be misdiagnosed with adhd, but it may actually be trauma that we haven't dealt with, or people with ADHD are actually more prone to experience trauma. So there's a lot of overlap, a lot of connection between the two. But this is all to say that, that, you know, when you are in a, you know, you're a person that can get distracted or there's, there's other things that are preventing you from just following through when you're like, this is so simple. Why can't you just do it? It's going to be harder for you. So you have to kind of create your own roadmap for how do I get to the results that I want in a way that makes sense for me? Because even for me, like, I manage my money differently than a lot of people because of how my brain works. I'm very visual. I like lists and I like organizing. And some other people, they're like, I cannot do it that way. That just does not make sense for me. And so that's, that's definitely something that I really wanted to put in. There is everyone's different. And that's why, even though there's so many great, there's so much great, you know, and free financial education out there. Unfortunately, personal finance is personal and there's no such thing as a one size fits all strategy for everyone. You have to kind of take what makes sense for you and then kind of create your own things with it.
- [34:34]
Co-Host
Can you share some examples?
- [34:35]
Jessica Morehouse
Maybe. So you are a financial counselor and you've seen a lot of folks who have a lot of different personalities, backgrounds, ADHD perhaps. And you said that sometimes it's different systems that need to be created. Like literally, what does that look like? I mean, does it conceptually, is that creating hard boundaries? Practically speaking, what does that look like?
- [34:54]
Yeah. So honestly, when I get approached by someone who has ADHD and they're looking for financial help, I actually try to find the, a financial professional who specializes in that or even has adhd. And there's a few people I, I know because I'm like, you want to maybe work with someone who knows exactly what you're going through. I don't. And so I want you to find someone who can help you the best way possible. But for, for lots of other people who, more than people I think I've encountered are people with trauma, which is actually a lot easier to deal with, is we need to figure out what are you, you having the hardest problem with right now. And then how can we create systems so you know, on payday you don't blow through all of your money. We're making sure we're putting money into savings, we're putting money aside to pay all of your expenses, we're giving you some fun money. How can we create these systems? And you know, for some people, yeah, you can use a credit card for everything, get those points, build your credit score and you're going to be completely responsible with that. Some people, simple, yeah, you shouldn't use a credit card for anything that's not like a fixed bill, that you know exactly how much is going to go on that card and you can pay it off right away. Everything else we need a different system such as your debit card or like a prepaid card or something like that. So we have that kind of guardrail so you don't overspend. So it kind of depends on the person to see what are you dealing with. What do we need to kind of change? For example, even for investing, there are certain people that I'm like, you should not be a self directed or DIY investor. You should either work with an advisor or a robo advisor. You need something that's so simple, that's automated, that you cannot touch because you shouldn't touch it.
- [36:32]
Matt
It's like know yourself and if you are a terrible bowler, you put the bumpers up right so that you can still hit some pins down. Even if it just like goes back and forth across the alley the whole time.
- [36:43]
Jessica Morehouse
Exactly.
- [36:43]
Matt
And, and yeah, so I think that.
- [36:45]
Joel
Makes a whole lot of sense and.
- [36:46]
Matt
It'S specific to the individual. And you're right. There are some people who an advisor makes sense or, or robo advisor. And then there are other people who, and there's some people who should maybe never ever check their account balance or once a year at most because they'd be too inclined to make a knee jerk decision. And then there are other people who, I don't know, they can look at it once a week because they're curious, but it's not going to impact their decision making or their emotions. And one thing you said too in your book, you said you describe how it's not just trauma getting in the way of smart money decisions. You say it's just our basic humanity too, which I don't know, makes me feel like we're all screwed or something that, like a little bit.
- [37:24]
Jessica Morehouse
Yeah.
- [37:24]
Okay, maybe not all screwed, but all screwed up a little bit.
- [37:27]
Matt
Okay. All right.
- [37:28]
Jessica Morehouse
Well, you highlight a whole, whole lot of different biases that we have and how that essentially kind of derails what we're able to achieve.
- [37:35]
Yeah, like just being a human is going to make it harder to be perfect with money. And I've not met anyone who's perfect with money. But just being a human and we have these instincts that are helping us to survive, but a lot of these instincts come from hundreds of thousands of years ago and they don't apply to our finances. So, you know, one thing I always bring up is herd mentality because we've all probably experienced it or have witnessed it where, and I feel like we're seeing that now with like crypto again. It's just everyone is just like, oh well, everyone's getting into this. I, I don't want to be left behind. So I'm going to get into this coin as well and I'm going to get rich and this is how I'm going to survive. And then what happens is there's a bubble, it bursts and you're left holding big or something like that. Now that instinct made a lot of sense back when we lived in herds and had to run away from, from some sort of danger. An animal that was going to attack us, we had to run as a herd to get away from the danger. Does not work. The Same with the stock market. Like you're just going to do some really big damage to your finances. And so understanding some of these biases that we will take as oh well, my instinct says, or my gut says to do this in finance, most of the time you have to do the opposite to what your instincts are telling you, which is very difficult to do. You have to be very self aware of what's going on, how you're feel and sometimes don't do, I mean almost most of the time don't do anything until you've kind of calmed down and don't feel like this urge to, you know, liquidate your savings because the, you know, everything's collapsing or, you know, I, I'm sure you're seeing a lot of this, I see a lot of this in Canada as well as people are freaking out because the political situation and there's a lot of uncertainty and what should I do? Should I pull out everything? I'm like, God no, just keep it, stop, don't touch it. Just don't do what your instincts are saying, which is run. You need to stay in place because a line is not coming to attack you. It's just, you got to just keep calm and carry on a little bit.
- [39:33]
Matt
Overinflating the potential reality of political turmoil or certain situations in our lives. I feel like we've covered the problem well. But you also talk about, and you offer some of these services, but how do you help people think through if they actually need the help of a professional to kind of weigh through some of, of their past history, their money traumas and trying to kind of figure out that what's informed kind of their current money beliefs and then how to change or whether that's something they can kind of pursue on their own.
- [40:04]
Jessica Morehouse
I mean, I'm of the belief that everyone should go to therapy, but we're all going to the dentist, we're all going to the doctor. We should also go see a therapist. But you know, I do offer a lot of kind of self guided exercises within the book to kind of get you started started. But I feel like in most cases, and especially even with just finance in general, you're probably going to hit a point where you're like, I need a second pair of eyes or just some, some outside person that can look at what I've been able to build to be like, is this right? Did I miss anything? Because in so many other areas of our lives we usually have someone else looking over our work or just to check like with my book, my God, I had editors and editors and copywriters, and I could not write a whole book by myself without having someone check my work. And so we need to see what are. What can we do on our own? And then at what point do we hit the limit of, oh, I can't really move forward, you know, without some extra help? And so when it's financial specifics, like, I, you know, just had a call with someone this morning who was interested in signing up to my course, and then eventually came to the point, I'm like, you know, I don't think you need another course. They're a person who kind of kept on signing up for courses. I'm like, I think you need a planner. I think you need to hire a financial planner, because all you want to is, do I have enough for retirement? That's something that's very specific to you. I don't have all your info. A planner can help with that. And that's not something. Maybe you can feel confident enough to figure that out on your own. Because even if, you know, there's great calculators and calculations you can do on your own, sometimes you just need someone else to do the calculation also and be like, oh, great, we got the same number. Okay, great. That's all I want. And so when it comes to things like trauma and just some of the kind of internal issues you're dealing with, there's a lot you can do on your own. But at a certain point, you're probably going to want someone who actually has a background in mental health to guide you onto kind of the next phase of your path. And I say this too, because while I was writing the book and I've seen a therapist for a number of years, gosh, probably going back to. I mean, consistently since 2020, like, most of us, like, I need to see a therapist. This is a lot going on in 2020. And he was wonderful. But it wasn't until I started writing this book that I'm like, you know, I still saw him, but I'm like, you know, we're not really getting deep. We're not. I'm not really sure if this is really working. And so I started to see a couple other different therapists, mainly just to see what different types of therapy are out there and how could I describe them for my book? And then I ended up doing a lot of sessions with them and doing a lot of work on myself. And they were able to make me experience breakthroughs I've never experienced and connections with myself, my child, who and my Money that I know I couldn't have done just on my own.
- [42:42]
I think even in the book you mentioned how previously maybe it was cbt, cognitive behavioral therapy. And so. But I get the impression that you've kind of ventured into different types. Is there a specific approach that you think helps folks when it comes to.
- [42:57]
Co-Host
Financial issues, or does it depend more.
- [42:59]
Jessica Morehouse
On, I guess, the individual and what they're going through?
- [43:01]
I think definitely depends on the individual. CBT may be perfect for most people. That's usually kind of the route that most people, I think start. But if you are dealing with some, some, you know. Yeah, really heavy emotional wounds that you can't really figure out. And my CBT therapist, that wasn't really his area of expertise. That's when I'm like, you know what? I'm going to look into emdr. I'm going to look into internal family systems. I did some research about them and they are really specific to trauma. I'm like, I'm going to test those out. I read a really great book too, especially with internal family systems, because it's. It's very. Not as well known, but it's fascinating and I think it's amazing. There's a book called no Bad Parts that talks all about it, so you have a better understanding of what you're getting yourself into. But doing for me, emdr, which is becoming more common with trauma treatment, and then ifs, those were things that previously I didn't even know about. And those were the things that really moved the dial for me, especially ifs, which I would have never thought about because it is. When you learn about it, it sounds a bit woo woo. And I'm not woo woo in any, like, I just don't believe in anything like that kind of stuff, like meditation, blah, you know, I'm like, can't do it. But this was just something that really connected with me, I think largely because I'm a very visual person and it's all about kind of visualization.
- [44:21]
Co-Host
Very cool.
- [44:22]
Jessica Morehouse
Maybe I'm even going to consider therapy. Joel.
- [44:24]
Matt
Oh, there you go.
- [44:25]
Jessica Morehouse
Jessica's like, you know, we all see dentists and doctors. Well, Jessica jokes on you because I don't see those guys either. But maybe I will go and see a mental health professional.
- [44:35]
Matt
I'm just married to one, so I.
- [44:36]
Jessica Morehouse
Get it for free. Oh, I'm sure she loves that.
- [44:38]
Matt
She does.
- [44:39]
Jessica Morehouse
We've got a few more questions to get to with Jessica. We'll get to all that right after this. This episode is brought to you by.
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Joel
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Matt
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Joel
Higher prices remain stable? Sticky Wouldn't it be cool if someone could invent a crystal ball that would give us some foresight?
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Jessica Morehouse
Well, until then, Joel over 41,000 businesses.
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Jessica Morehouse
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Co-Host
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Jessica Morehouse
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Matt
You avoid unnecessary medical exams.
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Co-Host
That's right.
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Jessica Morehouse
And Joel, I will say, as I.
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Co-Host
Get older, I think attempting to minimize.
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Jessica Morehouse
Regret, that has been a helpful lens in order for me to view the world. It helps me at least to make good decisions.
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Co-Host
And if that resonates with you, we'll get this. 40% of people wish that they had gotten life insurance at a younger age. So we're trying to help you out here by getting policy genius on your radar.
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Jessica Morehouse
Let's get rid of that could've, should've, would've regret.
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- [48:19]
Matt
All right, we're back. We're still talking about the hidden barriers to financial freedom, breaking through those things. And it is amazing how much just what we've gone through in our past, how it goes unexplored, unexamined. And it's really hard to change the life and the trajectory of your life when it remains unexamined. So I think Jessica's bringing out. You're bringing out a lot of great stuff here, Jessica, which we appreciate. Towards the end of the book, you say something, you highlight the fact that getting better with money and actually having more of it can equate to less happiness, which sounds counterintuitive. And especially with more recent studies coming out about, hey, higher net worth, higher levels of income actually do tend to increase happiness levels more than we previously thought. How do you think about the role of money and happiness? And why do you think that more of it might actually not lead to more happiness?
- [49:09]
Jessica Morehouse
So it really depends on where you're coming from. So there is some, you know, there was that study that we all know now, if you have a $70,000 income per year, that's your kind of the happiness kind of limit. And above that, you're not going to be happier. Well, that Scientist and another scientist did another study together to actually kind of expand. And what they really found was you can increase your happiness with more money only if you're already happy. But if you're not happy, if you're miserable, more money is not going to make you less miserable. It cannot solve that, you know, wound for you. It cannot heal that for you, money is just going to be a band aid. And I think possibly that is why we see all these very wealthy individuals accrue more and more and more. And you're like, why are they, what are they chasing? What are they running away from or trying to, you know, get away from or chase? And it could be the fact that they think that more money, more power, more this, that will make them happy or something like that. It just always kind of reminds me of Citizen Kane or something like that with this. You know, it's like, no, it was the childhood trauma. So I think it's important to recognize that, you know, because I, I'm a person that's like, yeah, build wealth, save, take care of your finances. That's great. But let's not forget that money is not happiness. It could potentially help you, you know, be more happy. But you already have to be happy. So that's why I'm like, therapy first and then let's see how we could build wealth because otherwise you're going to be like me, where I was building, we hitting all these milestones. And I was miserable because money was never enough for me to, you know, figure out what was going on on the inside.
- [50:54]
Going back to the types of therapy that you mentioned, like, you specifically talked about how it sounded like ifs for you. So the internal family systems, like, it makes me think about the fact. So Joel's got three kids, I've got four kids. And for those who might want kids, but bottom line, like, we want them.
- [51:10]
Co-Host
To develop a healthy relationship with money, among other things.
- [51:13]
Jessica Morehouse
And so wedded advice do you have for parents so that we're not perpetuating negative money beliefs to the next generation. And I basically just want to make sure I'm not like messing, messing my.
- [51:24]
Matt
Kids brains up, forcing them into therapy at age 16.
- [51:27]
Jessica Morehouse
Yeah, I mean, you know, parenting. I've been saying this on a lot of interviews because that's the question, I guess, like, how do I not mess up my kids? It's like, listen, I, I'm not a parent myself. My older sister is, and I see how difficult it is every day. She absolutely loves being a mom. But it is the hardest job in the world. So props to any parent for doing that work. And you're never going to get it perfectly perfect. Just do the best that you can. But I think if you do the work on yourself to heal your relationship with money, it'll be a lot easier and be more clear on how to then teach your kids to have a healthy relationship with money. Because you're not going to be just perpetuating these things that maybe you've adopted from your parents and they adopted from their parents and so on and so forth. You're going to have that stuff figured out. So you can not say certain things that, oh, my gosh, I didn't even realize I said that. You know, it's just certain idioms or things that you're like, oh, my gosh, you know, like, money doesn't. Or, you know, what's one that we always hear, especially as millennials, is like, oh, renting is throwing your money away. And you're like, no, that's not true. I mean, there's a lot of different ways to look at it. And that was, you know, and that was something that my parents would say. And I think their parents said. And then as a, you know, I felt guilty for renting in my 20s, even though that was the only way I could afford housing. So it's like, that's not health. That's not positive. You want to teach your children that money should not have control over you. It's the other way around. You control money. You do have to make certain choices, and certain choices have consequences, and certain choices will, you know, provide you a lot of freedom and opportunity. So I think really showing them that money is a tool, you are the hand that wields it. And here are the things that you need to know. And it's okay if you make a mistake. Everyone makes a mistake. Just make sure that you learn something from that mistake. And try to, when you're, you know, talking about money, not use shame or blame or judgment. Because it's very easy to do that, because, again, probably comes from our past. Really try to. To listen and be open. And, I mean, if you're already talking to your kids about money, that's already a great step. Because most of us, like my parents, refused to talk about money as a kid. Like, I remember asking. Asking them, how much do you earn? Or how much did this house cost? And they'd be like, no, we can't talk about that. That's inappropriate. Or, that's rude. Can't believe you'd ask that question. It's like having those conversations, making it open, that open dialogue, I think is a really great first step.
- [53:50]
Matt
No, that's great advice. And it's amazing how there's so many other things in our lives. We go back to our childhood and.
- [53:57]
Joel
We say, wait a second, do I.
- [53:58]
Matt
Actually believe that thing that I was taught? Or you at least kind of go back through it. But with me, money, sometimes we never go back and question those things. I think it's such an important tool and plays such an important role in our lives. It's crucial to at least explore kind of how we think about money and why we think that way about money. Jessica, this has been a great conversation. Thanks so much for joining us. Where can our audience. Where can the how to Money listeners find out more about your new book?
- [54:24]
Jessica Morehouse
Exactly. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I love being on your show. You guys are amazing. It's called Everything but the Hidden Barriers between you and Financial Freedom. You can find it at any bookstore, I don't know in the US where it'll be in the physical bookstores. No. No idea because I don't live there. But it's definitely online everywhere. And you can find more info about that also on my website, jessicamorhouse.com book. You can also follow me on Instagram at Jessica Imourhouse. And also I've got a podcast called the More Money Podcast if you want to check it out.
- [54:53]
Co-Host
Awesome.
- [54:54]
Matt
I bet the book's already in Minnesota because it's kind of so close to Canada, you know?
- [54:57]
Jessica Morehouse
You know what? We're basically. Yeah. We are neighbors. Yeah.
- [54:59]
I mean, only if it was being delivered by horseback, would it not be all the way down here in the South.
- [55:03]
Matt
I think the Mounties rode down a couple boxes.
- [55:06]
Jessica Morehouse
So. Jessica, thank you so much for joining us today.
- [55:09]
Thanks for having me.
- [55:10]
Matt
All right, Matt, that was a good chat. And it is true. It's one of those things we just don't think about very often, how much our money history impacts how our current.
- [55:19]
Joel
Lives are playing out.
- [55:21]
Matt
So I think this was a good reminder and some good information there from Jessica. What was your big takeaway from this conversation?
- [55:28]
Jessica Morehouse
Mine landed about halfway through a conversation.
- [55:31]
Co-Host
And it's when she was talking about.
- [55:33]
Jessica Morehouse
Trauma and specifically and love that she phrased it this way. She pointed out that it is not.
- [55:39]
Co-Host
An excuse, but it's just an explanation as to why perhaps that you behave.
- [55:43]
Jessica Morehouse
A certain way, why you have certain struggles. Right. Like why you might know the right.
- [55:47]
Co-Host
Thing to do, but you fail to.
- [55:48]
Jessica Morehouse
Do the right thing. And I Think that that's key in.
- [55:52]
Co-Host
Understanding why it is that you do certain things.
- [55:54]
Jessica Morehouse
Because if you want to tackle those things, well, all of a sudden you've got a more, hopefully a more effective toolbook, right? Like a more effective playbook. Book some different strategies that you might be able to put, to put into practice that somewhat address some of the things that you might struggle with as an individual. Like she was talking about somebody who.
- [56:10]
Co-Host
Might struggle to invest.
- [56:12]
Jessica Morehouse
Well, instead of self directing your investments. Oh, maybe this is somebody.
- [56:16]
Co-Host
This is an instance where you should.
- [56:17]
Jessica Morehouse
Work with an advisor that gets you.
- [56:19]
Matt
Over the hurdle of your own limiting beliefs or the places where, or adh.
- [56:24]
Jessica Morehouse
You know, like, or the distractions that you're just whatever it is that's keeping you from making those investments. Automating your investments might be an incredible strategy for, for some of those folks.
- [56:34]
Co-Host
But yeah, I think it's helpful to know why it is that we do certain things.
- [56:37]
Jessica Morehouse
But like she said, it's not an excuse.
- [56:39]
Co-Host
And ultimately the power does rest with us to take the actions that we.
- [56:43]
Jessica Morehouse
Need to in our lives.
- [56:44]
Matt
Nobody's gonna do it for us.
- [56:45]
Jessica Morehouse
Nobody.
- [56:46]
Matt
We might need help.
- [56:47]
Joel
Right.
- [56:47]
Matt
And whether that's the how to Money Facebook group, whether that is literally the help of a professional therapist, that's great. We all need help at times. Whether that's your partner, your best friend, whatever it is, none of those people are going to do it on our behalf.
- [57:01]
Co-Host
That's true.
- [57:01]
Matt
I think my big takeaway was when she said that we can use money as the solution. That whether all across the spectrum, whether it's spending or hoarding, we tend to think that money is going to fix our problems and it never does. And she even touched on that at the end too.
- [57:15]
Jessica Morehouse
Talking about, talking about happiness.
- [57:17]
Matt
Happiness? Yeah. How like, yeah, more money will make you happy, er, if you're happy and if you're unhappy, sorry, it's not going to do the trick that has to be found elsewhere. I think money can be this sort of soothing mechanism in our lives trying to cover up maybe some of those places where we feel inadequate. I know even at times, Matt, that was how I treated it early on because of kind of what I went through growing up that I shared here with Jessica just a second ago. But it was that sort of, okay, if I gather enough, if I have enough. But there was never really an enough amount. It never felt like enough. And so I was trying to sue something that was ultimately, ultimately not suitable with money. And it can be hard to figure that out and it can take time to figure that out. But it's important to do that so you can have a healthy relationship with money and so that you're not, I guess, just endlessly chasing something that you're never going to be able to catch up to.
- [58:08]
Jessica Morehouse
Yeah, Always like to think of money.
- [58:09]
Co-Host
As like a megaphone or an amplifier.
- [58:12]
Jessica Morehouse
Of what it is that you are already feeling or what it is that you're already doing.
- [58:16]
Co-Host
If you are a generous person and.
- [58:17]
Jessica Morehouse
You like to give your money, money away. Okay, well, earning six figures for the first time is going to allow you to give at a higher level. And same thing when it comes to just how all the other actions we take with our money and how we sort of feel like at our baseline, regardless of whether or not there's money.
- [58:32]
Co-Host
But the beer that you and I.
- [58:33]
Jessica Morehouse
Of course, we enjoyed a craft beer today, An American craft beer. That's what it says right here. Says Belgian inspired.
- [58:39]
Co-Host
American crafted the same from Canada.
- [58:41]
Matt
Unlike our guests, I wish we would.
- [58:42]
Jessica Morehouse
Have had a Canadian craft beer on. But this is from Taxman, like the Beatles, I guess. And it's called Deduction. This is a Belgian style style Dubel ale or double for the Americans out there. What are your thoughts on this one?
- [58:56]
Matt
Oh, man, this is like caramelized sugar vibes, raisin caramel, that kind of taste flavors going on, which is classic Belgian.
- [59:04]
Jessica Morehouse
Du Bell and Belgian yeast and funkiness.
- [59:08]
Matt
Going on, which I love that style of beer. And this is, I feel like approachable from like a light brown ale kind of vibe. But it's got a ton of different flavors that you. You don't typically get in American style beers. You might get a little bit, but you don't get this like full rounded, Belgian sort of funky, dark fruit notes going on at the same time. That's a totally Belgian vibe, which I appreciate.
- [59:32]
Jessica Morehouse
Yeah, it reminds me of overripe bananas, which is when we first poured it, like I was smelling it and I was just like, oh, man. I feel like this has major banana ether kind of notes going on. But then you drink it and it's not overly sweet. It was fairly dry and it kind of rounds out with some of those Belgian spices as well. Really enjoyable. Glad we got to enjoy a beer from a brewery that I've never. I don't think I've ever had a beer from these.
- [59:54]
Matt
I haven't either.
- [59:55]
Co-Host
Would you pick these up?
- [59:56]
Matt
Well, this was listener. Todd picked this one up for us.
- [59:58]
Jessica Morehouse
Oh, this one as well.
- [59:59]
Matt
And I think he brought this back from a trip that he was on. I forget if he said it was for a wedding or if he went for a race.
- [60:08]
Co-Host
Bargersville, Indiana.
- [60:10]
Matt
Okay. Yeah, so he was up there recently.
- [60:11]
Jessica Morehouse
He peeled the label off so I had an uncomfortable label.
- [60:15]
Matt
He thought of us while he was up there, which we appreciate. Yes, we had a little how to money running club thing here in town the other day and if you're a runner, want to go for a run with us?
- [60:25]
Co-Host
I don't know.
- [60:25]
Matt
Reach out. Maybe we'll make it happen again and we'll rope Todd and make him come back.
- [60:28]
Co-Host
Maybe I'll even be there myself.
- [60:30]
Jessica Morehouse
Maybe.
- [60:30]
But that's going to be it for this episode. You can find our show notes up on the website@howtomoney.com we'll make sure to link to all the different spots where you can find Jessica on the interwebs. And that'll be it, buddy. So until next time, best friends out. Best friend out.
- [60:58]
Joel
Even if you're a money whiz, it.
- [61:00]
Matt
Can still be helpful to have some.
- [61:02]
Joel
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- [61:07]
Matt
Of my life and I was still able to to get massive value chatting.
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Joel
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Co-Host
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Jessica Morehouse
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Co-Host
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Jessica Morehouse
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Joel
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Jess Hilarious
Yo, what up? It's your girl, Jess. Hilarious. And I think it's time to acknowledge that I'm not just a comedian. It's time to add uncertified therapists to my credentials. Because each and every Wednesday I'm fixing your mess. On Carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Got problems in your relationship? Come to me. Your best friend acting shady? Come to me. Thought you was the father but you not come to me. I can't promise I won't judge you, but I can guarantee that I will help you. Listen to Carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
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Minnie Driver
What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast. And now Mini Questions is returning for another season. Season we've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe, and Cord Jefferson. Listen to Mini questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions limitless answers.