How to Money – Eat the Avocado Toast w/ Justin & Haley Brown-Woods (#1040)
September 24, 2025 | iHeartPodcasts

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This episode tackles the “avocado toast” trope in personal finance—do small indulgences really ruin your financial future? Joel is joined by Justin & Haley Brown-Woods, financial counselors and hosts of “The Price of Avocado Toast,” who share their story of blowing a $600,000 inheritance, paying off six figures of debt on teacher salaries, and how their real-life journey shaped their empathetic approach to coaching others out of debt, shame, and unhealthy money cycles.

Episode Breakdown

Meet Justin & Haley (03:07 – 05:06)

• Meet-Cute Backstory: Couple met on OkCupid, ghosting and all—now married seven years (03:12).
  • Justin: “I found Haley on OkCupid and... she ghosted me for like two weeks. I’m thinking, what the heck, we’re 94% compatible!” (03:21)
• What Do You Splurge On? Justin: Fantasy football; Haley: Self-care—nails, hair, etc. Joy is part of financial wellness.
  • Haley: “Self-care things really fill my cup. So it’s worth every penny.” (04:41)

The $600,000 Inheritance: Not an Instant Fix (05:47 – 10:53)

• Inheritance Story: After Justin’s grandmother’s death, he received $600,000 with little financial literacy.
  • Good moves: Maxed out Roth IRA, down payment on a house
  • “Lifestyle inflation” and lack of a plan led to blowing the inheritance within 3.5 years and accumulating $220,000 in debt.
  • Justin: “We just kind of inflated our lifestyle and started to spend money in ways that were bringing us joy, but that were not going to serve us long term.” (06:48)
• Haley’s Perspective: Money literally “slipped through our fingers” without realizing it.
  • Family example was “financial trauma and silence; nobody talked about anything.” (09:19)
• Emotions in the Moment: Enjoyed that lifestyle (“we had a great time”), but weren’t aware of the consequences.
  • Justin: “To be quite honest... we had a great time... but we ran out of money and got into debt.” (10:07)

Realizing the Problem & Facing Debt (10:53 – 13:54)

• Haley managed finances; Justin unaware until paychecks weren’t enough and credit cards entered the picture.
  • Justin: “I thought she was so great and just crushing it... I wasn’t even fully aware of it until about a year after our wedding.” (11:09)
  • The “wake up” moment: Out of money, had to use credit cards; first real reckoning.

The Dave Ramsey Era: Hustle, Grit... and Outgrowing “Uncle Dave” (13:54 – 18:51)

• Dave Ramsey’s “Total Money Makeover” was a “kick in the pants” for them. Listened for “three hours a day, five days a week, for about a year and a half.” (14:59)
  • Justin: “We would talk about Uncle Dave when we were in the shower together...” (15:15)
• Ramsey’s debt-hustle philosophy worked for them—teacher salaries, multiple side jobs, bare-bones budgeting.
  • Justin: “You can do just about anything for a season and a reason.” (17:05)
• Now, as coaches, they do not recommend that intensity for most—“There are better ways to do it now.” (18:51)

The Debt Payoff: Bare-Bones Budgets, Sacrifice & Changing Tactics (19:58 – 23:56)

• Tracked every dollar.
• Cut all “extras”—avocado toast and streaming services.
• Covid shutdown simplified life, funneled every extra dollar to debt.
• Sold cars, eventually sold their home, and rented to be closer to family and free up equity for debt payoff.
  • Haley: “It really does come down to the season of life that you're in... for us it was a no brainer, but... I’ve seen people make those decisions and then they're kind of like, maybe I didn’t need to do that.” (23:40)

Avocado Toast: Symbol, Not Scapegoat (26:59 – 31:20)

• “Price of Avocado Toast” podcast name is a play on the trope.
• There is truth to small expenses adding up but it's about alignment with values, not deprivation.
  • Justin: “We get very singular in this idea of trimming things down and not all of it needs to be trimmed.” (27:49)
  • Streaming example: Cutting recurring charges adds up over time more than one-off sacrifices.
• Key exercise with clients: Identify values first—some value “security” and want debt gone ASAP; others prioritize “travel” or “community” and are okay with a longer payoff.

Coaching Insights: What Most People Get Wrong (31:20 – 34:33)

• Most clients are not budgeting or tracking expenses; don’t know where their money goes.
• Biggest breakthroughs come from basic visibility—building a budget and consistent tracking.
  • Justin: “It’s almost immediate that folks have a return... because it really is just kind of this awakening, this educational piece...” (31:45)
• Uncommon advice: Budget by pay period, not just by calendar month; most budgeting apps aren’t set up for this.

Shame, Emotion, & Money: The Real Obstacles (35:12 – 39:09)

• Shame is often the main barrier—they’re “embarrassed about their debt,” not just worried about money.
  • Justin: “The biggest thing people say is, I’m embarrassed about my debt and I don’t want to be shamed.” (35:55)
• Deeper work occurs before digging into numbers: relationship to money, family scripts, emotional triggers.
  • Haley: “So much of it is your relationship with money... Your debt is so much deeper than the numbers.” (38:23)

Finding the “Right Way”: It’s Personal (40:28 – 42:28)

• There’s no universal “right way”—context and season of life matter.
  • Haley: “Society tells us that we need to do what we did...but that flow isn’t necessarily reality for a lot of people.” (40:28)
• Financial habits evolve over time; even “experts” are challenged by their money scripts.

Trauma-Informed Coaching—Why It Matters (42:28 – 43:58)

• Haley’s Trauma of Money certification: Not just knowing “the math”—healing requires recognizing and addressing deep-seated scripts and trauma.
  • Haley: “If you grew up in poverty and your family didn’t have a lot of money, there’s a lot there that you need to work through. Just having the textbook education doesn’t mean you heal that.” (43:06)

The Couple’s Transformation: Internal and Relationship Growth (43:58 – 46:18)

• Becoming financially “well” improved communication, intimacy, and partnership.
  • Justin: “It gave us the tools to have really hard conversations... we’re really comfortable voicing our opinions with one another in a kind way, but in also a direct way.” (44:20)
  • Haley: “We can do anything together as a unit... it was truly something I would do all again in a heartbeat because we learned so much from it.” (45:19)

Debt Consolidation, Credit Cards & Traps (48:44 – 54:51)

• Debt Consolidation: Can be a good tool, but “a slippery slope” if you don’t change underlying behaviors.
  • Haley: “If you’re just trying to gamify the system...you will be stuck in a debt cycle. A year after you consolidate, you’ll probably have twice as much credit card debt.” (49:33)
• Credit Card Strategy: Absolutely stop using them while in debt. Once you have the habits, maybe re-integrate for points—but it’s “99% behavioral.”
  • Haley: “All of those benefits are completely useless the moment you pay interest.” (51:40)
  • Justin: “You need to put it away, and it can’t continue to climb... many people go through the debt payoff cycle, don’t fix the habits, pay off debt, and then... are right back in debt.” (52:44)

Keys to Getting Unstuck & The Power of Coaching (54:51 – 56:30)

• Paying for a coach creates accountability and commitment through “psychological buy-in.”
  • Haley: “There’s a psychological thing that happens when you pay money for something. People care about where their money goes. When you say you want to make the change and you invest in that change… you’re more likely to show up.” (54:51)
• But you don’t have to have a coach—first and foremost, forgive yourself, and write down your real numbers to see the truth, not just guess.
  • Justin: “The ostrich thing isn’t going to work… you got to come up for air and you got to write down the numbers and get a little bit vulnerable with yourself.” (55:59)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Living Large & Regret:
  “To be quite honest, I think this is the part that we might get some gruff for. We had a great time... but we ran out of money and got into debt.” (Justin, 10:07)

• On Shame's Power:
  “The biggest thing people say is, I’m embarrassed about my debt and I don’t want to be shamed.” (Justin, 35:55)

• On Gamifying Debt Repayment:
  “If you are not working on anything else… you will be stuck in a debt cycle. I promise that a year after you take the HELOC out... you will have probably twice as much credit card debt...” (Haley, 49:33)

• On Getting Unstuck:
  “The ostrich thing isn’t going to work… you got to come up for air and you got to write down the numbers.” (Justin, 55:59)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 03:07 – Joel welcomes Justin & Haley; their relationship background
• 05:47 – Justin explains the inheritance “anti-windfall”
• 09:19 – Haley on family money silence & its aftermath
• 13:54 – Dave Ramsey era: bingeing, hustling, eventual departure
• 17:05 – Multiple jobs and tradeoffs of side-hustling intensity
• 19:58 – Actual bare-bones budgeting, sacrifices, and home sale
• 26:59 – The meaning behind “Price of Avocado Toast” and spending on what matters
• 31:45 – Coaching: most people’s blind spots and the power of tracking expenses
• 35:12 – Shame, emotion, and unlearning money taboos
• 40:28 – The “right” way to money: individuality and context
• 43:58 – Financial change as relationship transformation
• 48:44 – Debt consolidation, why most fail at it
• 51:40 – Why credit card debt is so hard to manage
• 54:51 – Can coaching help? How to get unstuck

Final Thoughts

Justin & Haley’s story illustrates the complexity of personal finance: it’s about values, habits, and healing, not black-and-white rules. They stress self-compassion, visibility into your own numbers, and aligning your spending with what matters to you—not just cutting lattes or avocado toast. While big sacrifices might be needed in certain seasons, real, sustainable change happens when you address the “why” beneath the numbers. And, sometimes, having a compassionate guide makes all the difference.

Find them at: priceofavocadotoast.com and on social media @priceofavocadotoast.