Friday Flight - 401k Mullets, Crappy Coffee, & Bitcoin Bashing #1104

Summary

How to Money – Friday Flight #1104: "401k Mullets, Crappy Coffee, & Bitcoin Bashing" (Feb 20, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this Friday Flight episode, co-hosts Joel and Matt serve up their signature mix of humor, personal anecdotes, and practical insights as they cover notable personal finance headlines from the week. The discussion moves from the trendiness of 401ks ("mullets for your money") to the perils of coffee snobbery, dynamic pricing, rising debt, and skepticism about the latest Bitcoin crash. The duo maintains their mission to provide jargon-free, relatable advice for everyday listeners, with a focus on actionable steps, honest takes, and a dash of nostalgia.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. 401k Mullets & Financial "Coolness"

Timestamps: 01:44 - 07:43

• Joel and Matt reminisce about childhood rat tails and mullet haircuts, segueing into how 401ks are now getting a "cool" rebrand, thanks to social media memes and trending styles.
• Matt: "Whatever headlines have to be out there in order to drive people to the most underrated way that majority of Americans are going to become actual millionaires. Yes, the 401k." (04:32)
• The rise of the Solo 401k is discussed, especially as more people start small businesses post-COVID. The new Roth Solo 401k options from providers like Fidelity are making higher retirement contributions more accessible.
• Joel: "401ks. IRA millionaires. That's how you're going to... It's going to happen for the vast majority of people." (04:41)

2. Crappy Coffee & The Value of Quality (Without Snobbery)

Timestamps: 07:44 - 14:13

• The hosts debate a Washington Post piece claiming that sub-$50 coffee makers always brew terrible coffee. Matt plays devil’s advocate, noting that with fresh grounds and regular cleaning, even a cheap machine can make a "pretty dang good cup."
• Joel: "Coffee is a non-negotiable in our budgets, both yours and mine." (07:44)
• Matt: "I've made some pretty dang good coffee on a very cheap coffee maker." (11:29)
• They relate this to a larger principle: sometimes it’s worth paying more for quality in items you use daily (like mattresses and shoes), but there’s a sweet spot between bargain-bin and luxury.
• Buy "once, cry once" is invoked—spend with intention, especially for frequently-used items.

3. Surveillance Pricing & Consumer Backlash

Timestamps: 14:20 - 17:24

• Joel details growing concerns over "surveillance pricing"—algorithm-driven price differences based on user data, which Americans widely dislike for its perceived unfairness.
• Joel: "Two-thirds of folks who responded to this survey said they would not shop at a retailer again if they were charged more than other patrons."
• New York's disclosure law for surveillance pricing is mentioned as a response to consumer pushback.
• Matt: "I feel like I've benefited slightly from the ability to get deals as opposed to being afraid that prices might be more expensive." (16:19)
• Advice: Track prices with tools like CamelCamelCamel, and don’t assume loyalty means best price.

4. Rising Debt: Credit Cards, Delinquencies & The Danger Zone

Timestamps: 17:24 - 24:58

• U.S. credit card debt reached a record $1.28 trillion, with delinquencies rising across income brackets and loan types, not just among lower-income borrowers.
• Matt: "It's just so difficult to overcome a 20 plus percent interest rate. These are not the escalator steps that we want you running up as it's coming down." (18:04)
• The hosts firmly reiterate: carrying a balance is never "okay," and even "manageable" debt is a drag on financial progress.
• The FTC’s consumer protections against abusive debt collectors are highlighted, emphasizing everyone's right to fair treatment and information.

5. Ludicrous Headline of the Week: Claiming Pets as Dependents

Timestamps: 25:39 - 29:06

• The Washington Post's clickbait article about whether pets can be claimed as tax dependents is skewered. Joel and Matt make clear: "No, your cat isn't your child"—the IRS requires dependents to be human.
• Matt: "Most Americans probably agree. That's why pets don't get Social Security numbers." (28:35)

6. Skyrocketing Babysitting Costs; Solutions for Parents

Timestamps: 29:06 - 31:16

• National average babysitter pay has hit $26/hour for one child, $30/hour for two—prices that stun both hosts.
• Solution: The "date night swap"—trading free sitting with trusted friends—is championed as a cost-saving alternative.
• Joel: "It saved us so much money and just made date nights more regular and more affordable." (31:00)

7. The "Gray Economy": Older Americans' Spending Power

Timestamps: 31:16 - 33:21

• Older Americans (boomers) are spending big, fueled by stock and homeownership gains. The episode frames this as both an enviable goal and a reminder that financial independence is rooted in owning appreciating assets.
• Matt: "Ownership is really crucial, man. Like, we want folks to be owners. We want you to buy stocks, buy rental properties. If you're so inclined to be a real estate investor, we want you to build that wealth." (32:16)

8. Prediction Markets, Gambling, and Social Costs

Timestamps: 33:21 - 39:42

• Explosive growth in "prediction markets" (like Kalshi) during the Super Bowl is viewed as a sign of America's accelerating gambling habit.
• Joel: "This just, Matt, feels like peak gambling insanity to me." (35:41)
• Matt optimistically hopes it’s just a shift from other spending, but both agree the social consequences are concerning—especially as gambling gets easier and more addictive online.

9. Bitcoin Bashing: Crash, Perps & Caution

Timestamps: 39:42 - 42:34

• Bitcoin’s price has crashed, in part due to "perps" (perpetual futures contracts) causing forced selloffs, highlighting the risks of leveraged cryptocurrency speculation.
• Matt: "The moral of the story: even if you believe in the future of bitcoin, the gambling-esque behavior that we're seeing exhibited in the space is very unsettling." (39:42)
• The hosts reinforce their strategy: if you dabble in crypto, keep it to 5% or less of your investments—no leverage, no FOMO.
• Joel previews a possible interview with outspoken crypto-skeptic/actor Ben McKenzie.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On 401k Trendiness:
  "We're all about making the 401k sexy again. I think what, I'm all for it. Whatever it takes, man." – Joel (04:13)

• On Consumer Debt:
  "It's not normal. And the quicker we get rid of it, the more easily we're going to be able to make progress towards all the other financial goals that we have." – Joel (19:30)

• On Coffee and Spending:
  "Sometimes we look to the cheapest replacement ... but you got to find the sweet spot." – Matt (13:46)

• On Dynamic Pricing:
  "There's a general idea of unfairness that people hate ... like, wait a second, Sheila just came in here before me, and she paid 20% less than I did." – Joel (15:01)

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Timestamps for Key Topics

• 401k Mullets & Trendy Finance: 01:44 – 07:43
• Coffee Quality & Spending: 07:44 – 14:13
• Surveillance Pricing: 14:20 – 17:24
• Debt, Delinquencies, & Rights: 17:24 – 24:58
• Ludicrous Headline: Pets as Tax Dependents: 25:39 – 29:06
• Babysitting Costs & Swaps: 29:06 – 31:16
• The Gray Economy: 31:16 – 33:21
• Gambling & Prediction Markets: 33:21 – 39:42
• Bitcoin, Perps, & Investment Caution: 39:42 – 42:34

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Closing Thoughts

The episode delivers relatable, timely insights on managing money with both common sense and personality. Whether poking fun at current trends, sharing parental hacks, or issuing stern warnings against debt and risky speculation, Joel and Matt consistently advocate for earnestness, informed choices, and cultivating habits that benefit your future self.

Best Takeaway:
"Nobody cares about my money as much as I do... it takes individuals wanting something better for themselves." – Matt (22:51)

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More info & resources:
Sign up for the How to Money newsletter or browse referenced articles at howtomoney.com.

Transcript

[Matt]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Joel]

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[Joel]

Advanta.com welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I'm Matt.

[Joel]

Today we're talking 401k mullets, crappy coffee, and Bitcoin bashing.

[Matt]

You know it, buddy. This is our Friday flight where we're going to cover our favorite headlines from the past week and all the stories that you mentioned, plus more I was gonna say. And do you have anything personal that you want to share?

[Joel]

I was gonna say favorite headlines, but favorite headlines we love to hate too. That's what the ludicrous headline. Yeah, Gotta talk about stuff we hate.

[Matt]

Do we have a little Friday flight appetizer? Are we just gonna cut straight to it?

[Joel]

Just go straight to it? Okay.

[Matt]

Yeah, I feel like we got a longer one, so.

[Joel]

Yeah, let's, let's. Let's kick it off. Let's talk about 401k mullets to begin with.

[Matt]

And did you ever have a mullet as a. As a kid in the late 80s?

[Joel]

The kid across the street from me had a rat tail. You remember rat tails?

[Matt]

I had a rat tail.

[Joel]

Oh, did you? Oh, of course you did.

[Matt]

Like a little one, but nothing. Not like, how long we talking about here? Like, how long is his rat tail? Like a foot.

[Joel]

His was probably good. 8 to 10 inches.

[Matt]

Yeah, that's really good. So I used to work in the public schools up in North Carolina right after undergrad. And one of my clients, like one of the kids I was working with, had a mullet with. With the rat tail.

[Joel]

I didn't know you could do both. That's impressive.

[Matt]

It was really good.

[Joel]

So I.

[Matt]

This is. This is back in like 05 06.

[Joel]

Do you remember the. The tire tracks on the side of the cuts?

[Matt]

The streets are.

[Joel]

I always wanted that. My mom would never let me get that haircut.

[Matt]

Oh, yeah.

[Joel]

Thinking about doing It.

[Matt]

She's like, sorry, son, you're not allowed to be that cool.

[Joel]

Right? Think about it. Well, I don't know if it was

[Matt]

cool or not, but of course it's cool today too.

[Joel]

At least for a minute. Yeah. I'm like, we were saying, maybe I'll do it at the age of 41 just to show her, you know, who's

[Matt]

that guy with a mustache and then the racing stripes down the side of his.

[Joel]

That's a weird personal finance podcast. Your fellow.

[Matt]

I love it.

[Joel]

Okay, so mullets and 401k mullets. Like I think you and I are mostly. We're not in the know about what's actually cool. Like our mullets cool these days.

[Matt]

Yes, mullets are totally cool.

[Joel]

Supposedly they're trending. They're back. But it's not, it's not especially like

[Matt]

the messy mullet, you know?

[Joel]

Yeah, like the Joe Dirk kind of mullet.

[Matt]

The guys with the curly hair.

[Joel]

I think there's a big difference in the mullets today that are popular. It seems like there's still like something going on in the front. It's not. It's not. Yeah. That.

[Matt]

It's kind of got like the MacGyver look. MacGyver. He had a mullet.

[Joel]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Matt]

I wanted to be just like MacGyver when I was in the back row.

[Joel]

Out. I just don't think of that as a traditional mullet. But okay, we'll say mullets are hot right now. And 401k mullets, that's a new term to me. But I guess as mullets have kind of come back into vogue, the fancier, less trashy ones and quarter zips, I guess those are back to Matt the quarter zip sweater. Evidently I'm not going to be wearing those, I'll tell you that. You don't like quarter zips? No. Not my jam.

[Matt]

You're not cool enough for it.

[Joel]

I guess that's the thing.

[Matt]

You're. You're, you're airing or you are defaulting to your millennial ways and the court. Dude. So funny. I will say we are revamping the dress code, the uniform at the kids school and they recently included quarter zips and all the parents went nuts. Like, in a good way. Everyone was so pumped about the quarter zips. So evidently they're hot.

[Joel]

Quarter zips and mullets are in. How does this relate to money and finance?

[Matt]

Let's get to the 401k part.

[Joel]

Well, apparently social media posts are linking the rise of the now sexy again mullet. And the hotness of the 401k, like 401ks are as hot as a dude sporting a really good looking mullet. Okay? And you and I, neither of us are supporting sporting mullets these days. But we're all about making the 401k sexy again. I think what, I'm all for it. Whatever it takes man.

[Matt]

Whatever flavor, whatever headlines have to be out there in order to drive people to the most underrated way that majority of Americans are going to become actual millionaires. Yes, the 401k.

[Joel]

401k IRA millionaires. That's how you're going to. It's going to happen for the vast majority of people. So well done gen zers young folks. If you got a match, take advantage. It's. It's money gear number two for a reason people. The 401k. And I'm just glad it's getting light shed on it by being culturally relevant.

[Matt]

I'm totally fine with that if that's what it takes. But you know what, dude? Being financially responsible and investing for your future, it's always been cool. You know why? Because it's cool to be able to achieve the financial goals that you have in life. Like whether that's like paying cash for a car or putting down, saving up a down payment for a house like these. Like who doesn't want these different things? And it's almost as if we're having to convince people that like oh no, it's actually cool to be responsible, have

[Joel]

options, not be broke.

[Matt]

Oh yeah, go figure. Makes me think of conversation I was having recently with someone about like ambition. And he was talking about how he was just a total bum until he met his girlfriend and wanted to propose to her and to be able to marry her and spend the rest of his life with her. And so that caused him necessity. It's the mother of all inventions, right? And so like yeah, you don't have a reason necessarily to be responsible until all of a sudden there's something that you want. And that's what personal finance is all about. I love that The New York Post relatedly here they had an article about the rise of the Solo 401k which is happening because we've seen a rise in small business formation. This is post Covid, which is I think great for the country. So we gotta make sure that the Solo 401k gets the same kind of love as the regular workplace variety. That way all the small business folks out there know what they've got access to. It's pretty sweet, Joel. You know, we've had ours with fidelity, our solo 401ks there with fidelity for a while. They recently launched a Roth version which I'm all about.

[Joel]

Yeah, I was waiting for that.

[Matt]

Glad folks have the option to get some of those post tax dollars socked away as well. And all the big low cost providers are making it easier. They're requiring less paperwork in order to open these things. And we've actually got more information. We've actually got old podcasts on this as well where we talk about the Solo 401K, where we go into it in more depth. It is well worth learning about if you are an independent worker and want to sock away more for retirement.

[Joel]

Yep. Solar for one case. Don't sleep on them. Don't sleep on the regular 401ks. They're cool folks. Do the cool thing.

[Matt]

Also being earnest and going after the thing you want totally in being earnest and sincere. I want to see more of that, man.

[Joel]

That was the. The Chalamet acceptance speech, right. Where he said I want to be great. I forget what award ceremony it was

[Matt]

at for the recent the ping pong movie. Did he win an award for that?

[Joel]

It might have been for different. I don't remember. Or no, maybe it was. Maybe it was for that at the Golden Globes or something like that. And I think he won best actor. In his acceptance speech he basically talked about how he wants to be great and I was like, man, you're wearing hard on your sleeves.

[Matt]

You're putting it out there as opposed to, I don't know, not pretending that you don't care, but truly you pretend you don't care enough and eventually, guess what? You don't care.

[Joel]

Yeah, I'm not like a huge Chalamet buff or anything like that, but it made me like, I'm rooting for you, buddy, if that's what you want.

[Matt]

I like that attitude.

[Joel]

Go out there, take on some good roles. Get her done. Let's talk about spending Matt for a second. Coffee is a non negotiable in our budgets, both yours and mine. Yeah, I think you probably dedicate a slightly bigger line item in your budget to coffee than I do.

[Matt]

I spend a little more time probably on it in the mornings.

[Joel]

Yeah, we do. We also buy nicer beans, I would say, on average. And yeah, maybe so. Yeah.

[Matt]

So you're doing Costco. I'm one step up with the. The counterculture. Yeah, but even too fancy.

[Joel]

Even still, like the disparity is minimal because we mostly make Our coffee at, at home.

[Matt]

That's the biggest difference, man. Cost of coffee out. As opposed to, as opposed to doing it at home.

[Joel]

Not to try to like, make it not cool to get coffee out, but I think it's once a week. It's probably a good rhythm.

[Matt]

That's what we do. That's what you and I do.

[Joel]

If you do it every day, just do it with intentionality. But there was a new Washington Post article and it argued that the cheap sub$50 coffee makers, the ones that make super crappy coffee, the ones that go by the moniker Mr. Coffee most of the time. Right. That's. That's like the ubiquitous name out there. But there's like all sorts of just throwaway coffee makers that will brew a bad cup of coffee no matter what beans you put in there. Yeah. Or just. It won't be able to do your beans justice. Okay. Right.

[Matt]

I. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, keep going because, like, I'm willing to push back a little bit.

[Joel]

Who was this?

[Matt]

Washington.

[Joel]

Washington. One of the things they were saying is one that it improves. It brews an inferior cup. And then the other thing they were saying was that these, these machines, these cheaper ones typically don't last very long. And so why, why go through that process? If you, if you're going to try to make decent coffee at home, why not buy yourself a nicer coffee maker that's going to stand the test of time and it's going to brew a better cup simultaneously. This is one of those things kind of like a mattress. Right. That you use every day.

[Matt]

That is true.

[Joel]

You want to sleep on it eight hours a day, so why not that. That's probably something that's worth prioritizing, spending a little bit more money on. Although you were sleeping on a hand me down mattress for like two decades

[Matt]

or something like that, slept well, and it's still the most comfortable mattress in our entire home. Our daughter sleeps on it.

[Joel]

If it's the most comfortable mattress, then that's awesome. Keep it around.

[Matt]

Like, what does it take to get our current mattress to that level?

[Joel]

Well, Keurig machines. That's another one. Right. That people. I think that's convenience. Usually Keurigs are awful. Not great.

[Matt]

So they're. They're awful from a coffee standpoint, but then also from the, the waste standpoint.

[Joel]

The waste and the money.

[Matt]

So I'm going to loop back.

[Joel]

Coffee is going to cost you more too that way.

[Matt]

I want to loop back a little bit because I do think like, and this is coming from like, more the Coffee snob kind of guy.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Like I've gone through all the different phases. Like I used to do V60, you know, I used to do the French press.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

But speaking another language now.

[Joel]

But I'm sure some of the listeners out there, they know what I'm saying. Coffee obsessed. They know what's up.

[Matt]

You can make a pretty dang good cup of coffee using a cheap Mr. Coffee. Like the one we have is just the, I mean it's the Mr. Coffee equivalent from Amazon. I think it was like 20, $25. And when it comes down to the biggest factor is grinding your beans fresh. And so if you get a decent grinder, you can make a pretty dang decent cup of coffee with a plastic, fairly affordable coffee maker as long as you are cleaning the filter. And I think that's the biggest thing. People don't do it.

[Joel]

Right. Vinegar, like vinegar and water.

[Matt]

I mean we don't, we use it when we have family over. We're trying to make a ton of coffee all at once. And so I mean, I'm just using dish soap, but I'm doing it daily as opposed to most.

[Joel]

We wash it daily. Yeah.

[Matt]

Okay. Most folks, they just kind of knock the grind the coffee grounds out and they kind of rinse it off maybe and then they put the tomorrow's coffee in there. And so what all the oils and all that old buildup, man, like you don't want that. Like if you were even just to clean it with some just regular dish soap, it's going to make a world of difference when it comes to your next cup. And that's the thing that most people don't do. They don't dedicate the time. They want it to be easy, which is why the Keurig seems to be satisfying this need for a lot of folks because people don't like to clean. But I'm just pushing back just slightly because I've made some pretty dang good coffee on a very cheap coffee maker.

[Joel]

Okay. So. And maybe one of the things you're, you're highlighting is it sounds like you'd be willing to spend a lot more money on a good grinder than on a good machine. Yes. Okay.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Get you a nice great grinder, clean your machine, you're good to go.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I mean it doesn't have to be super fancy, but like a baratza or even like a conical bodum, like you can get a pretty good grind that's way better than stuff that's pre ground.

[Joel]

Like 10 or $15 ones. You get on Amazon that have like two blades going.

[Matt]

Yeah, you don't want that.

[Joel]

Okay. So. But Matt knows more about coffee than I do. But I thought this was. This is just another checkbox in the kind of buy once, cry once thing. Like, buy something that, like the. The. What is it? Mocha Master Technivorm. That's something we have the knockoff version of that buy sells.

[Matt]

But it's. It's performed pretty well for y'.

[Joel]

All. It's been great. It's been great.

[Matt]

Yeah. Well, the Mocha Master, that's. It's a few hundred bucks, isn't it?

[Joel]

It is. I think the one I got was on sale. I think it's normally 150. I. I think I got it on sale for 50 bucks, so I got a really good deal on it. But it's one of those things where I hopefully will have it for, you know, a decade to come.

[Matt]

Yeah. Okay, wait.

[Joel]

The.

[Matt]

The real one, the name brand one is like three, 400 bucks.

[Joel]

That's like 300 bucks. Okay.

[Matt]

But yours normally is 100.

[Joel]

You got 150, and I got it for 50.

[Matt]

Okay, gotcha, gotcha.

[Joel]

So. But yeah, those two. Those are expensive. But then again, when you think about

[Matt]

it, if you take care of it, though, and you keep it around, actually. So there's an. Because I am a coffee nerd, there's a. There's a similar Mocha Master maker that I don't know who is making it, and the way that they release different allotments of it is like on a month to month basis. But it's. I want to say it's called like simply good coffee or something like that. And it is based on the design of a Mocha Master, but no plastic parts. Because a lot of coffee snobs are like, oh, but the plastic, it absorbs the smells, the odors, it absorbs some of the oil. And it's all glass or stainless steel or something like that. And so evidently that's like the next step up that a lot of the coffee nerds are kind of geeking out.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

But again, that's. I mean, taking it to the next level. And I'm not necessarily wanting folks to go out there and spend money if they are completely happy with whatever they have.

[Joel]

But next time your coffee maker breaks, maybe. And this is the way with a lot of things in life, I think oftentimes we look to the cheapest replacement. And there is like, when I'm buying shoes for my kids, man, I'm not buying them. Like my daughter really wants a pair of hokas right now. Even on sale, they're like $75. I'm like, sorry, we just. You're gonna wear them for like, three months.

[Matt]

Like, pretty pricey.

[Joel]

We're not spending that much money on. On shoes.

[Matt]

But have y' all gotten those uber cheap ones? And how long do those last?

[Joel]

About as long as they need to. No, some of them have worn out before they were done with them.

[Matt]

But you got to find the sweet spot. Like, that's what. So that's what's so tough because we've gotten the uber cheap Amazon shoes that are just like foam and cloth. And I'm like, where's the. It's like, it's like a. An animal without its bones, you know, it's like, where's the actual structure of the shoe? And then recently, one of our daughter, we got her a pair of New Balances that were on sale, and oh, my goodness, they have lasted so much longer. Yeah, that then at least the foam ones, I'll say.

[Joel]

Especially if you can hand me down. Or we talk about buy good stuff, but buy it secondhand as well. That's good. Yeah. Speaking of pricing, Matt, it turns out Americans hate the idea of surveillance pricing. Dynamic pricing is one thing, right? Where prices shift based on the demand or time of day. People are. People are mostly used to that at this point. We tend to understand that plane tickets are going to. They're often going to be at this sweet spot, pricing around two to three months ahead of our trip. That's when the lowest prices are likely to occur. But technology is making it easier for retailers to gather data on us and to charge more if they think that you or I are going to pay more. So roughly two thirds of Americans are concerned about this, and 2/3 of folks who responded to this survey said they would not shop at a retailer again if they were charged more than other patrons. Just I think that it's a general idea of unfairness that people hate. Like, wait a second, Sheila just came in here before me, and she paid 20% less than I did. And not just because she, like, cut out the coupon in the Sunday paper, but because you like her more or something like that. Like, that's how people assume surveillance pricing is. Is working. And they're not wrong to a certain extent. New York enacted a law last year requiring a clear and visible disclaimer when a retailer uses surveillance pricing. So I'm curious to see what that's going to look like in the wild. But this is a growing battle for, for consumers, for retailers alike. And I don't know, I'm just curious like do you feel the same way as the average consumer? How do you feel about surveillance pricing?

[Matt]

No concerns?

[Joel]

No concerns.

[Matt]

No, I think it's, I mean we'll see if it plays out. But like, I mean I don't think there's stores who are actually doing it in person. So oftentimes I think it comes down to surveillance. What is it? It's cookies. It's having your data.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And I kind of see it. I also saw in that survey like that 30% of Americans are also thinking oh there's a chance this could be more fair. And I think maybe the train of thought that those folks are entering into is the fact that oh retailers want your information. They want your email and like your phone number more or less more often these days.

[Joel]

Why?

[Matt]

Because they want to market to you like they want to like oh we just had a President's day sale. Right. And so I will see it anytime I have been tracked. I feel like I've benefited slightly from the ability to get deals as opposed to being afraid that people prices might be more expensive. But certainly look around and check and shop around, see what the prices are. But I don't know. I'm so okay and used to the fact that I'm sacrificing my data being watched for the potential to get a better price at some point.

[Joel]

I think it does highlight that reality that as surveillance pricing becomes more and more of the norm that tracking prices and not assuming that you're getting the best deal because or the deal that every the price that everyone else is getting just because that's the way it's always been. It's worth, you know using a site like CamelCamelCamel Tech to actually track prices. What's been happening in the past with the past pricing of this item and shopping around with different providers instead of the people who are going to pay the most are the people who are hyper hyper loyal and are not doing their due diligence.

[Matt]

Totally agree. Well buddy, let's keep moving. I think we could cover the fact that headline credit card debt just hit a record high. That's something we could talk about every week, every Friday here.

[Joel]

It doesn't ever seem to go down.

[Matt]

Does did for a minute there post when we were getting all the stimulus money.

[Joel]

Isn't that always interesting too how like

[Matt]

when the economic household savings on hand.

[Joel]

Well when economic times are toughest people tend to draw back and they start to pay off debt when Times are good. People are like, let's keep spending.

[Matt]

People are assessing their own finances to the extent that they're willing to. Right. Like, because it seems like a lot of folks are getting sloppy with their money. But what that means is that they're just comfortable with that amount of debt essentially. It turns out we're almost at $1.3 trillion now specifically in credit card debt. I think it's like 1.28. But there's been a large rise in credit card loans that are also in serious delinquency. So folks are in over their heads to the point that they can't pay the minimum. And on top of that, man, as we invent newer forms of debt like Buy now, pay later paying for all of these different companies, I think it's harder to have a finger on the pulse of exactly how debt laden US consumers are right now. So although 46% of Americans carry a credit card balance, we are very much against you carrying a balance. Certainly. How to money listeners, it's just so difficult to overcome a 20 plus percent interest rate. These are not the escalator steps that we want you running up as it's coming down. It's just incredibly hard. And you might be thinking it's not that much. You know what even it's just the principle like we don't want you paying that even if it is quote unquote manageable.

[Joel]

Matt makes me think about the end of my conversation with Shauna Game earlier this week and the one thing I just want to respond to it. I was like, what piece of personal finance advice or rule are you okay breaking? And she was like, having credit card debt. And I was like, no, okay, agree to disagree on that one. It's just to me there's nothing good that comes from it and don't want

[Matt]

to hit Restart on another 30 minute conversation where we could just talk about

[Joel]

credit cards because I think it's just so detrimental and we've gotten way too used to carrying some credit card debt with us wherever we go. It's like this little, little satchel that we have attached to our back for the average American. And there's like, I guess this is normal, but it's just, it's not normal. And the quicker we get rid of it, the more easily we're going to be able to make progress towards all the other financial goals that we have. But eliminating the credit card debt from your life is such an important part of that. Yeah, you don't want to be a part of that. $1.28 trillion. Don't do it.

[Matt]

Don't do it.

[Joel]

But in defaults on all kinds of debts are rising right now. The share of US Loans in any type of delinquency is the highest it's been since 2017. So we're starting to enter just another dismal period of debt reality in the United States right now. Delinquency rates across all US Household debt hit the highest level in basically a decade. And this default uptick is hitting folks with high incomes, too. So it's not just people on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum. Debt to income ratios are rising quickly as well. So for the longest time, right, there was very little mortgage delinquency that's even ticking up, which kind of makes sense. If you bought a home in the last couple years, you paid a good amount, you paid a lot for it, and you also have a high interest rate, and you're struggling to make that mortgage payment for the first time in a long time. You might not be able to sell it for what you paid for it. And, yeah, you might. You might be at risk for default. We've talked about the pitiful state of student loan and car loans quite a bit on the show recently, too. So there's just a lot of negative stuff happening in the debt space. Sam Rowe put it this way, Matt, I thought this was well tempered. He said what we've experienced in recent years is household finances normalizing from unusually strong levels to relatively worse levels. And he says they're arguably still good. I think good is an overstatement because

[Matt]

that's a relative term.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Is it good relative to Matt and Joel?

[Joel]

No, no.

[Matt]

But, like, what we want for people, that's not what we want for you. Like you said, we want folks. We just have a higher standard for folks out there.

[Joel]

But for.

[Matt]

I understand what he's getting at, which is that essentially we are returning to kind of that pre pandemic level, which wasn't like, terrible. Yes, wasn't terrible.

[Joel]

I think it's really easy to see the headline number go up and not think about all the other relative factors at play in household finances. And so people will use that as like, scaremongering headlines. But the truth is we're not in the best spot. And these numbers reflect real people who are in a tough financial situation. They're not handling. Handling their finances all that well. Totally. Yeah.

[Matt]

I think it's time for folks to. I think what's going to happen is folks are going to start tightening up a little bit and they're going to realize that, oh, okay, starting to see delinquencies on the rise. And as for individuals, like, I do wonder because, like, the slight good news on a very macro level, like at a very high level, is that we are seeing inflation come down.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Like, recent numbers have shown that. And also real wages, we've seen that go up. And so I would not be surprised again, hopefully some people will use this to their advantage. What we don't want is folks to hear that and to say, oh, I'm going to automatically get out of debt because inflation is coming down, real wages are going up. That's not how it works. Like, a lot of times what could easily happen is you would say, oh, now my money can go further and I can buy more stuff. Like it takes.

[Joel]

That's the typical American response. Yes.

[Matt]

It takes you being, I guess, waking up and realizing, going back to like, the earnestness and like going after something. It takes you realizing that, oh, nobody cares about my money as much as I do. Like, there is nobody else who's going to like, step up to. And like, you can turn to Money Management International. We've talked about them before. You can go with different organizations that can like, walk alongside you and help you to claw your way out of a massive hole of debt, but nobody truly is going to care or should be caring as much as you do. So on a personal level, I think it takes individuals wanting something better for themselves. If that is you. If, let's say you are in a situation, you've got a ton of debt and someone's calling you, they're hounding you about that debt. It is important to know your rights. The ftc, the Federal Trade Commission, they just put out a notice about what debt collectors can and can't do. Most folks don't realize that there are laws in place and debt collectors are required to send you valid information about the debt that they call about within five days of that phone call. So the Fair Debt Collecting Practices act, it requires calls also to be between 8 and 9pm so what that means

[Joel]

is no, 8am and 9pm what did I say? You just said 8 and 9.

[Matt]

But I'm sorry, 8. Yeah, 8 in the morning.

[Joel]

They don't have just one hour, they've got most of the day. But if they're calling you early in the morning or late at night, they're in violation of this federal law.

[Matt]

Yeah, specifically the like super late, middle of the night kind of harassment calls. So know that they are not allowed to call after 9pm and if you say that your employer forbids them to call you at work, that's something that they have to respect. They can't call you if you deny it while you're at work. And they can't threaten illegal actions. You can even demand that they stop contacting you altogether. Now, keep in mind, this doesn't mean that that debt automatically goes away. You're just kind of hitting the mute button on. On. You're turning off your ringer essentially on the. The debt collections alarm. And of course, if that debt is yours, like, you do still have to pay it. But just know your rights, if you find yourself in a debt collection situation to where it feels like if it's starting to stress you out a little bit, that you've got some options.

[Joel]

Yeah. And there are a lot of, I think, debt collectors who do their job well, but. And it's just a tough business to be in. But then there are also a lot of people who have given the debt collection industry a black eye because they treat people so poorly. And it's really important for you as the, as the individual, as the consumer to know what your rights are so that you're not getting taken advantage of or treated maliciously. When that's not allowed. That's not legal. That's right. We got more to get to, Matt, including, man, can your pet be a. Provide a tax benefit for you. We'll get to that and more right after this.

[Matt]

Okay, we back. And it is now time for the ludicrous headline of the week, which is from the Washington Post. And this is a. I think this is gonna be a doozy. Joel. Pets are family, but can you claim them as dependents on your tax return? Which I gotta say, this feels a little. A little click baity.

[Joel]

I, I do not think of my cats. We have two cats. I do not think of them as a part of our family in the way that I think of my children as part of our family.

[Matt]

I do wonder if this is like a new strategy after the Washington Post. They're trying to. They're trying to get profitable again, essentially. But it seems like they're going in the direction of like buzzfeed and maybe like the Daily Mail as opposed to

[Joel]

like, they did lay off a lot of folks.

[Matt]

They don't really substantive journalism.

[Joel]

They don't seem to know what their mission is right now over there, do they?

[Matt]

Yeah. So I don't know. So by you saying that you don't see your cats as family, Joel, you know what? You are tacitly admitting is that pets aren't the same as humans. Pets are not the same as kids,

[Joel]

despite what some people think. Matt. It's true. Okay. Yeah, they're not the same.

[Matt]

Email Joel directly.

[Joel]

Folks, it's totally cool if you have a pet that is near and dear to your heart. I like my cats. I think my wife and children love them more, but they snuggle up with them a whole lot more than they snuggle with me. They know they're not going to get the same love. Right.

[Matt]

But that's because they know that tall guy with the mustache that's got a cold heart. That's right.

[Joel]

I'm a little grinchy at times, but I think just the assumption. It was just interesting. This article is all about how some people think because their pets are so near and dear to them that they deserve or are likely to get some sort of dependent tax break. Tax credit for having animals.

[Matt]

Because, I mean, so you get the child tax credit, right? It's like two grand or whatever. And I get. I mean, there's two. There's two separate conversations going on here, right? Like, on one hand, we're talking about the potential for pets to be considered family, and I think that's totally fine. Like, there's plenty of folks out there and they. They don't just like their cats, Joel. They love them. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever, like, we've talked about how we've had dogs and whatnot. I don't know if I've, like, shared how much. And I would say that I loved my dog. Like, we had a great day. Stella. Like, we had her for so long.

[Joel]

You have a portrait of her.

[Matt]

That's. How much. Dude, were those people? Like, it was a watercolor that a friend did after she passed. It was the. And I don't even want to talk about. I'll probably start tearing up. But, like, the decision to have to put her down and she had. She was sick and had cancer, dude. It, like, wrecked us. Like, we. I was surprised at how much it destroyed Kate and I specifically. But there is a big difference even still from like, loving your pet and also expecting to receive some sort of, like, government tax credit because, well, kids get tax. Tax breaks. And I think folks are only looking at the finances because they're like, well, I spend more on my dog than you spend on your kid, so, like, why don't I get a tax break? But there's a. I would say there's a difference. And I would say that most.

[Joel]

There is a Difference.

[Matt]

Most Americans probably agree. That's why. That's why pets don't get Social Security numbers. You know, just because the same just.

[Joel]

Well, yeah. And just because the IRS requires that you're dependent. Be a human. It doesn't seem that controversial to me, but I guess it is in some corners of the Internet. And so I love it if you love your animal to that extent. But same here. No, there is. There is no tax benefit for that love. Speaking of offspring, Matt and Love, Babysitting is expensive. Sometimes you gotta have childcare for your pets and for your.

[Matt]

Maybe you should have fewer kids and more cats. That's one of your selling points on cats.

[Joel]

Cats are easier to take care.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

You let them.

[Matt]

Let them go for the weekend.

[Joel]

Easier to leave town. It costs a whole lot less. You don't have to board them or put them up. You just have to have someone come by and check every third day.

[Matt]

That's pretty nice.

[Joel]

It is nice. Not gonna lie. So cats over dogs for that reason. Although, I don't know, part of me wants like a golden retriever someday, so that'd be pretty cool one of these days. But I think you and I, we're both basically at this point where we're past the phase of needing a whole bunch of childcare occasionally. Right? It's necessary, especially if, like, we're going on a longer away trip or something like that. But mostly when it's just a quick night out. Our oldest, they can watch their siblings. But this website, Urban Sitter, tracks the national hourly rate for a babysitter. It was kind of shocking to me. I didn't realize it was this bad. $26 an hour for one kid, 30 bucks an hour for two kids.

[Matt]

That's the going rate on average, across the country.

[Joel]

Insane.

[Matt]

That blew my mind.

[Joel]

Obviously it costs more in big cities like San Francisco, big, expensive cities. It costs less in smaller cities like San Antonio, for instance. But that's so much money, and babysitting is a tough job. I get it. Babysitters deserve to get paid. But if you've got kids, they consider the date night swap. If this is. If you're like, oh, man, the date nights feel so expensive because not only are we going out to dinner or a show or something like that, but we're also having to pay the babysitter. And my goodness, it's not as cheap as it used to be.

[Matt]

It adds up.

[Joel]

We'd have. How long did we do the baby night? The date night swap was that for.

[Matt]

We did it for a solid decade. That's what I think. Ten years, man. Because it was once the big girls start, once they got past that 10 year mark.

[Joel]

Yes.

[Matt]

Wasn't it around when they were 11?

[Joel]

I think that's. Yeah, pretty much.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Basically that means we would put our kids to bed, then you would come over and just hang out while, read, watch tv, do push ups, whatever you like to do.

[Matt]

Never did push ups.

[Joel]

And then vice versa. The next week I'd be over at your house. And that saved us so much money and just made date nights more regular and more affordable. So if you're looking for some cheap ways to finagle and reduce your babysitting

[Matt]

bill, consider that big fans of the date night swap. So the opposite of having young ones is being old. Joel being a boomer, I guess. Unless you are Robert De Niro. Because didn't he have a new baby with his young wife when he was like 80 years old?

[Joel]

I think he was in his early 80s and just had a baby. Yeah.

[Matt]

So, okay, we talked about the K shaped economy at the beginning of the year, but the gray shaped economy, that's the new cutesy term that folks are throwing around. That's because more consumer spending is being done by older Americans right now. More of them own a home, more of them own stocks, which means they have done overwhelmingly well on the wealth front and they've gotten significantly richer over the past five years. Makes a lot of sense.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

And so they're often spending from wealth, not income. And it's just fascinating. And it makes sense. It's something that I think a lot of folks, as they get older, it's a difficult thing to grapple with as well.

[Joel]

But isn't that something we're kind of all striving for?

[Matt]

It's what we're going for. Absolutely.

[Joel]

Right. Is to be able to amass enough wealth to where we don't have to have a day job at some point. Right. That's financial independence. That's kind of the mission for a lot of how to money listeners, us included.

[Matt]

Yeah. I guess I'm thinking about making the transition from living off of your income as opposed to living off your wealth.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Because that's something. I think that's what's tough to grapple with. Because when your entire life you are being told, oh, you gotta save, you gotta invest, as opposed to saying, oh, yeah, I'm actually gonna spin down on this sum. And it seems like the older generation is. So it's not a wonderful data point for our economy as a whole, but this does point to a necessity for younger folks, which is that ownership is really crucial, man. Like, we want folks to be owners. We want you to buy stocks, buy rental properties. If you are so inclined to be a real estate investor, we want you to build that wealth. And basically, we don't want your spending to be wholly dependent on your income for forever at some point. Yeah. Like you said, Joel, that is the goal, to kind of shift gears, to start dreaming about what life might be like once you are fully, quote, unquote, traditionally retired.

[Joel]

Yeah. It's easy to see these stories on the gray economy and be like, man, must be nice. Right? But the reality is that in four decades, three decades, three decades for us, probably four decades from our listeners, that's. That is the goal. Right. That's where we're headed. If we consistently do the right things that we are spending, we're able to help keep the economy afloat, I guess, because we. We have more money to spend because we've done smart things with our money in the here and now. All right, let's talk about prediction markets, Matt. They raked it in during the super bowl, man. Some of the statistics that I saw were stunning. Didn't realize that people were partaking quite to this extent. Well, Kalsheet downloads and daily active users were up an insane amount. Nearly 2 million folks were actively wagering on predictions on game day, apparently with more than a billion dollars being traded. That's not even counting polymarket. That's literally just calcium. And it wasn't just basic stuff like the outcome of the game. Right. Which is, you know, oh, I'm going to put a hundred bucks on the Seahawks to win then. And you make, you know, $97 or whatever it is. But it was wagers on a slew of oddities like Bad Bunny's outfit. Was he gonna wear a skirt? I think was one of them, which I didn't. I didn't realize he was famous for that because I just am not. I'm clueless as an older millennial about what political statements were gonna be made. You could bet on ads that would run during the game itself. You could, you could even bet on whether the word poly market would get used to in the broadcast at some point in the evening. And this just, Matt, feels like peak gambling insanity to me. I mean, I hope it's peaked, but in fact, I don't think it is. I think we're still just at the forefront of this, especially when you're looking at what's on the docket sports wise. March Madness, World cup coming down the pike shortly. That's true. We'll write about more on this in the how to Money newsletter this coming week. But this is just one of those things. I read those numbers and I'm just, I'm saddened because I think so many people are, are wasting time and energy that could be better spent in other, other places. And just think about, yeah, 20 bucks here, 30 bucks there. 1. Not only is it that that can lead to addiction, but to that money, it. It could be represent meaningful dollars tossed toward your nest egg to build for your future.

[Matt]

Maybe this is just me being overly optimistic, but I hope that there is spending that has taken place when it comes to gambling like this that is just being substituted from other areas in life where maybe it would have been wasted.

[Joel]

Like your entertainment budget.

[Matt]

Yeah. So like, prior to the widespread social acceptance of gambling on your phone before that, maybe folks were out in public, in person, you know, blowing some money on, you know, at a restaurant or a bar, like a night out, that sort of thing, which you could argue, well, that's a better way to spend money. You are stimulating the economy. You know, the economy. You're supporting local jobs, a local business you're having. I think maybe the best argument would be, oh, you're doing something with real people, like you were doing something with friends. And so from a societal level, I could see the argument being made that like, no, things are worse because at least before felt like maybe a more wholesome waste of money as opposed to this, which feels just like a complete hole where this is just like money that it feels like it's falling out of the bottom of your wallet as opposed to receiving any benefit from it.

[Joel]

Going to a casino with a couple of friends would be, I think, a very different vibe than just sitting on your couch and like, making predictions about stupid stuff.

[Matt]

It's a completely different thing. Think about the hangover. Like, I don't even know if people would get it.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

If the hangover came out today because they're like, wait, people go to Vegas and party and place bets.

[Joel]

But I, and I would hope that you're right too, but I don't know

[Matt]

if it is, but I'm pretty sure it's not true.

[Joel]

Like, and I think that would be like seeing the world through Pollyanna sort of glasses to think that people are like, well, let me take some money from my, from my entertainment budget and instead of putting it towards this new set of golf clubs, I'm going to put it towards fanduel gambling or kalsheet sports bets, predictions and stuff like that. I think what's happening is people are, are using money that they don't have. Sure. They're enticed by the ad. Is it more than gambling dollars? Sure. Yeah.

[Matt]

But is it more than what they're spending before? Right.

[Joel]

So maybe, I think it is for many people.

[Matt]

Maybe we can look at credit card levels prior to Kalshi, prior to Polymarket.

[Joel]

Well, you can even look at just the number of calls going into just the national gambling hotline. Right.

[Matt]

Oh, there's totally more people gambling for sure. But again, are we substituting alcoholism? Are we substituting other mental disorders or diseases truly that folks were experiencing before and instead they're kind of the funnel for online gambling is certainly larger. I just hope that means that it's pulling away from some of the other acceptable vices from last decade as opposed to what is acceptable today, which is online gambling.

[Joel]

If that were the case, it would make it at least slightly less egregious.

[Matt]

Yes, but like you said, is that the case? I don't know. But similar to wagering on random predictions, Bitcoin, man, it is not for the faint of heart. The price has been cut in half over the past six months. That being said, I think volatility, it's also crypto's calling card. But hodl investors, right, so hold on for dear life. They're, they're used to the wild swings, but folks are trying to figure out why the price has collapsed so quickly. And it seems like bitcoin perps, they seem to be one of the culprits. Perps are essentially a debt vehicle allowing investors to buy futures contracts. So perp stands for perpetual. So it's a, it's sort of this never ending perpetual contract that gets extended off into the horizon. And the problem is, is that the lower the price of bitcoin goes, the more folks who bet on rising prices get wiped out, which then exacerbates the problem. Basically their loans were getting called as the prices drop. So they have to come up with more money to be able to back those contracts, meaning that they're having to sell more of their bitcoin at a loss, which is driving the prices even lower. So the moral of the story, even if you believe in the future of bitcoin, the gambling esque behavior that we're seeing exhibited in the space is very unsettling and I think it contain a whole lot of folks views of their quote unquote investments. And it's another reason to keep crypto your Crypto exposure to a minimum.

[Joel]

Yeah. And definitely to not take debt vehicles.

[Matt]

Oh my gosh.

[Joel]

In order to buy more cryptocurrencies. It's the worst.

[Matt]

Yeah. Because if you look.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Diversify, man. This is 5% or less. I'm totally fine if folks have some bitcoin, but keep it to 5% or less because guess what isn't down. I think on the year. I don't know, maybe we're kind of flat. The S and P. I think we're in the green. I know if you look at the past year, like we're up over 10%. If you look at the past 12 months, that is not the case for bitcoin. I'll tell you what.

[Joel]

Well, Ben McKenzie, who I'm efforting to get on the show, Matt, we'll see if. We'll see if we can make it happen. He's like, was in, I think the OC back in the day.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Which I never really watched. And so I'm not a fan of him as an actor necessarily. But he is a. He calls himself a closet economist because he actually has an economics degree and he wrote a book about, I think, his hatred for cryptocurrency. And he's got a movie coming out later this year. He made this great video that's been circling the interwebs. One of our listeners reached out and shared it with me. He's talking smack about bitcoin, cryptocurrency and how these assets essentially become a part of the regulated financial system via exchange traded funds. When institutional investors apparently started cashing out. He said they were selling shares when bitcoin was peaking. That also helped to push prices down. And so I think there's still a lot of reason to tread lightly with cryptocurrency. Even though bitcoin in my mind is the least risky of all the cryptocurrencies. Right. There's potential for bitcoin. We've talked about this on the show. We've had experts on. I still feel like a complete novice on the future of bitcoin and where things are headed. But I think what's happening right now in the space should at least just be a wake up call for anybody who might have had too rosy a view of where things were headed and how quickly they were going to get there.

[Matt]

Yeah, totally agree. I saw that video as well. And he's talking about, and I agree with him that the biggest risk could be with all the institutional investors pulling back. The worst case scenario is that it takes down the entire system, right. Like it's another contagion effect, massive crash. I personally don't think. And you can, you can timestamp it, but I can't imagine that's going to happen because institutional investors, and I can't believe I'm about to say this, are smarter than retail investors. They're hedging their bets a little bit. They're looking at the risk. They're not leveraging themselves like a lot of individual investors who were hodling and then all of a sudden all of their perps are getting called and I mean, they're just in the tank as opposed to institutional investors who by giving their firms any exposure at all were taking a lot of risk. So I can't imagine that there's a whole lot of big player, high level investors who are also in the toilet that could potentially cause a cascading effect. But you never know. You never know.

[Joel]

Hope you're right.

[Matt]

Fingers crossed. This is again me being optimistic and Pollyannish and hoping for the best.

[Joel]

That's usually my role on this podc, Matt. How dare you? How dare you steal my thunder.

[Matt]

That's how I roll sometimes.

[Joel]

I'll allow it, but today only. All right, that's gonna do it. For this episode, we'll put links to some of the stories we mentioned up in the show. Notes on the [e-mail] don't forget to sign up for the how to Money newsletter. Comes out every [e-mail] newsletter. That's right.

[Matt]

So that's going to be it, buddy. Until next time, best friends out. This is an I heart podcast.

[Joel]

Guaranteed human.