Friday Flight - Allbirds AI Audacity, 529 Flexibility, & Horrific HELOCs #1131

Summary

How to Money: Friday Flight - “Allbirds AI Audacity, 529 Flexibility, & Horrific HELOCs” (#1131)

Podcast: How to Money
Hosts: Joel & Matt
Air Date: April 24, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this Friday Flight, Joel and Matt deliver their signature mix of finance news, personal stories, and actionable advice. The episode covers market fads (with a special look at Allbirds’ shift to AI), changes in retirement expectations, the evolving landscape of 529 plans, a warning about new HELOC terms, and the growing “annoyance economy” nickeling and diming consumers. The hosts infuse their chat with relatable anecdotes and practical takeaways for anyone wanting to master their money without falling for the latest hype.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Finance Anecdote: The Candy Apple Trap

• Story [04:03–08:23]:
  Joel shares being surprised by a $23.75 candy apple purchase at a touristy shop, reflecting on transparency in pricing and consumer pitfalls.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Joel: “I couldn’t break my daughter’s heart ... it’s the most expensive apple I’ve ever paid for in my life by far.” [05:11]
  • Matt: “If he was just, you know, direct marketing to the kids ... other parents need to be warned. That’s a lot of money.” [07:34]
• Takeaway:
  Always check prices, even in small purchases, to avoid “gutting” spending surprises. The story sets up the day’s theme of watching for hidden costs and atop-the-surface marketing ploys.

---

2. Market Exuberance & Hype: Allbirds’ Pivot to AI [08:35–12:46]

• News:
  Allbirds, the once-trendy wool shoe brand, announced a pivot to AI, briefly sending their stock price soaring.
• Discussion:
  • Joel: “Allbirds is now an AI company...it’s just so 2026.” [09:42]
  • Matt: “It’s like bringing a pocket knife to a bazooka fight.” [10:05]
  • Analyst cited: “The market is not pricing risk, it’s pricing narrative.” [10:18]
• Parallel Example:
  MicroStrategy offers “Stretch,” a risky, high-yield stock product tied to Bitcoin and their own shares.
• Warning:
  Be wary of fads and products promising outsized returns (e.g., 11%)—if “it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.” [11:34]
• Investment Principle:
  Stick with time-tested, boring strategies like S&P 500 index funds rather than speculative schemes.

---

3. Retirement Realities & Misconceptions [12:54–16:05]

• Stat:
  Americans now believe they need $1.46 million to retire comfortably—up 15% in a year. Many may overreact to rising projections.
• Hosts’ Take:
  • Joel: “If you project unrealistic needs without knowing your numbers ... it can create undue stress.” [14:26]
  • Matt: “Folks continue to strive after what they’ve been striving after because they’re not actually doing the work and figuring out what is enough.” [15:10]
• Advice:
  Individualize goals; don’t simply chase ever-higher numbers out of fear (or nihilistically give up). Account for Social Security, reduced expenses, and paid-off mortgages in planning.

---

4. Risky Alternatives Creep Into Retirement Accounts [16:05–19:21]

• Context:
  New policies may let Americans invest in alternatives—like private credit, real estate, or crypto—inside their 401(k)s.
• Hosts’ Analysis:
  Asset managers are pushing these options as a way to compensate for falling fees, often increasing complexity to justify higher costs.
• Warning:
  Slick marketing should not trump the fundamentals: “It is hard to beat the broad market, especially with minimal to non-existent fees.” [18:16]
• Notable Quote:
  • Joel: “The marketing behind index funds ... it’s boring. And because it’s so inexpensive ... you just don’t see much marketing for Vanguard.” [18:22]

---

5. 529 Plan Flexibility & College-Saving Trends [19:42–26:42]

• Trend:
  1 in 5 parents aren’t using 529s due to uncertainty around college’s value and the rise of AI.
• Financial Advisor Example [20:12]:
  Some affluent parents are boycotting 529s altogether.
• Hosts’ Experience:
  Both take a “cautious but optimistic” approach—comfortable with moderate 529 savings now that the plans are more flexible (e.g., Roth rollovers up to $35,000).
• Proposals:
  Lawmakers may allow 529 funds for certifications or housing down payments.
• Nuance:
  • Joel: Be careful, as this may tempt predatory institutions or drive up home prices indirectly.
  • Matt: States offer tax breaks to incentivize a more educated populace; policymakers must weigh incentives’ broader effects.
• Takeaway:
  529s are more flexible than ever, but think strategically about contribution levels and likely uses.

---

6. HELOC Dangers: The New Landscape [29:05–33:06]

• Report:
  HELOC (Home Equity Line of Credit) terms are changing—non-bank lenders are entering the market with immediate drawdown requirements, inactivity fees, and other “gotchas.”
• Memorable Quote:
  • Matt: “Yes, their website might be very slick ... but these new players, the terms are just worse. They’re nickel and diming you.” [30:19]
  • Joel: “If you’ve gotten a HELOC before from a credit union ... you might be shocked ... some of the underlying rules have gotten much, much worse.” [31:23]
• Advice:
  Don’t judge lenders by tech-savvy interfaces; local credit unions may be clunky but offer better terms.

---

7. Property Tax Increases & How to Fight Back [33:06–35:24]

• Context:
  Property taxes are up 3% YoY; many feel they’re not getting commensurate value.
• Pro Tips:
  • Challenge property tax assessments for errors (e.g., square footage, comps).
  • Use services like Ownwell or hire a lawyer to appeal your bill.
  • File for homestead exemption if you’ve recently bought a home.

---

8. Credit Trends and Cautions for Gen Z [35:24–37:32]

• Data:
  Gen Z is opening more credit cards, experience temporary score drops, but are at risk of building bad habits—using cards to bridge income gaps.
• Warning:
  Debt “holes” form slowly, so don’t wait until it’s unsustainable.
• Takeaway:
  Build savings and use credit cards strategically, not as emergency fallback.

---

9. High Earners (and Everyone Else) Cut Costs Where It Counts [37:05–39:57]

• Wall Street Journal Article:
  High earners are embracing thriftiness except for select priorities (e.g., experiences or specific splurges).
• Hosts’ Practice:
  • Joel: “If you make those intentional decisions, you have more optionality ... you can make bigger splurges on the other stuff you care about.” [39:26]
  • Matt: “Splurging when you don’t have the money is a bad idea ... this is the shampoo factor.” [39:57]
• Tip:
  Shrinking “inflexible” budget items (groceries, toiletries, clothes, cars) unlocks more satisfying spending elsewhere.

---

10. Buy Now, Pay Later at Coachella—and the Dangers of Installment Culture [39:57–41:54]

• Fact:
  60% of Coachella attendees used BNPL (Buy Now, Pay Later) for tickets—and often for lodging and other costs.
• Hosts’ View:
  While BNPL lowers barriers, it breeds bad habits, leading to more expensive and prolonged payment cycles.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Matt: “Reducing the upfront cost ... allows you to do all the things you want to do, even if you don’t have the money on hand. But it’s creating really bad habits for folks.” [41:17]
  • Joel: “Buy Now, Pay Later ... it’s worthless to you ... it’s really just a psychological mechanism to alleviate the pain.” [41:54]

---

11. The ‘Annoyance Economy’ and Hidden Fees [43:12–45:11]

• Stat:
  The “annoyance economy” costs Americans $165 billion/year through fees and friction—reminder to read fine print and factor cancellation hassles before signing up for subscriptions.
• Takeaway:
  Prevention and confidence are the best defense—increasingly, companies make it hard and costly to back out.

---

Notable Quotes & Fun Moments

• On Index Fund Boredom:
  • Joel: “The marketing behind index funds, Matt, is just not good ... it’s boring ... you just don’t see much marketing for Vanguard.” [18:22]
• On Candy Apples versus Market Fads:
  • Matt: “Expensive candy apples. Allbirds shoes. There’s a lot of things out there that aren’t for real.” [12:28]
• Coachella BNPL:
  • Matt: “60% of the massive crowd at Coachella used Buy Now, Pay Later to buy their tickets ... which, yeah, it’s ridiculous.” [39:57]
• Hosts’ Pop Culture Literacy:
  • Joel: “What did you think of Bieber’s set where he sat down at a desk and played old YouTube videos of himself?” [42:19]
  • Matt: “I did hear about that. I’ve got no opinion.” [42:20]
• On the Annoyance Economy:
  • Joel: “It can seem really good in the moment ... but what if you stop going there regularly and it’s frustrating to cancel it?” [43:29]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start | End |
|-----------------------------------------------------|------------|------------|
| Candy Apple Trap | 04:03 | 08:23 |
| Allbirds AI Hype & MicroStrategy Warnings | 08:35 | 12:46 |
| Retirement Needs & Behavioral Risk | 12:54 | 16:05 |
| Alternatives in 401(k)s & Rising Fees | 16:05 | 19:21 |
| 529 Plans Flexibility Debate | 19:42 | 26:42 |
| HELOC Shady Terms, Online v. Credit Union | 29:05 | 33:06 |
| Property Taxes: Appeals & Exemptions | 33:06 | 35:24 |
| Gen Z Credit Card Trends | 35:24 | 37:32 |
| Thriftiness for High Earners | 37:05 | 39:57 |
| Buy Now, Pay Later at Coachella | 39:57 | 41:54 |
| Annoyance Economy, Hidden Fees | 43:12 | 45:11 |

---

Final Thoughts

Joel and Matt remind listeners that personal finance success still comes from skepticism, intentionality, and mastering the basics—regardless of the hype swirling around AI, crypto, or new financial products. Whether it’s reading the fine print on a HELOC, thinking twice before using BNPL at a festival, or shopping for shampoo, the little choices add up—and so do the hidden costs.

Hosts’ Sign Off:

• Joel: “Until next time...”
• Both: “Best friends out.” [45:35]

For further reading or links, check the episode resources at howtomoney.com.

---

Transcript

[Ad Host]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human with my Biz plan from Verizon Business. You get to choose exactly what you want and only pay for what you need for your business. Get their best price for as low as $25 a line guaranteed for three years. Visit verizon.combusiness to get started today. New lines only. Price per month with five plus lines includes auto pay and paper free billing and promotional discounts, taxes, fees, economic adjustment charge applicable. Add ons prices and terms apply. Guarantee applies to base monthly rate and stated discounts only. Add on prices Additional Offer End June 30, 2026 Is it just me or

[Matt]

is it getting really hard to figure out the best way to save for retirement? Well, Fidelity can help you to find clarity so you can save the best way for you. With a free personalized plan, goal tracking and timely insights, you'll be set to take on retirement your way.

[Joel]

Get [e-mail] future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services Member NYSE SIPC

[Matt]

let's say you've always wanted to take a spontaneous trip to the Caribbean. Well, here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money, like treating yourself to something special or

[Joel]

spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one man? So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 19 million customers [e-mail] not an Empower client, paid or sponsored. Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

And I am Matt.

[Joel]

Today we're talking Allbirds AI audacity529 flexibility and horrific HELOC.

[Matt]

You know what buddy? This is our Friday flight. Our little collection of headlines that we've come across this past week that we're going to get to on our episode today. Let's go.

[Joel]

Let's make it happen.

[Matt]

Do you say let's go? I feel like it's. I'm thinking occasionally this is on my mind because our kindergartner said it. I feel like it's like a youth sports sort of context typically. Right. Like Jim Bros. Let's go. And our son said it yesterday after he's a kindergartner like your son. Right? And they're starting to read more. And he's got these, these Books. And he read his book to his sister, and she was like, good job, Weston. You did a really good job. You're almost. You're only three books away from completing your whole list. And he. He's like, all right, let's go. Which we thought was really funny.

[Joel]

That is adorable.

[Matt]

Let's go. We're going to talk about. We're not talking about sports or literacy. We're talking about personal finances for sure. As.

[Joel]

As we always do. And yeah, real quick, I wanted to mention that we. And I'm tell a quick story here, Matt, about something that bit me in the butt, that really frustrated me and

[Matt]

just don't want to get bit in the butt.

[Joel]

But I want how to money listeners to know that we love taking your listener questions and we.

[Matt]

Oh, yeah.

[Joel]

Submit some.

[Matt]

We're getting low on the freshies, you know, like, and we like to. We put together a good variety of listener questions that create an entertaining and interesting episode.

[Ad Host]

Right.

[Matt]

And so we've got a lot of the Roth IRA kind of questions. And that's why anytime someone sends in a weirder question that we are all

[Joel]

about and maybe, maybe it's something to deal with your personal finances or maybe it's just like an existential personal finance question you've had, or just some of this cross your mind, please send it in and if it's awesome, I'll send you a pair of how to money socks. We haven't given those away in a long time. We still.

[Matt]

It's true.

[Joel]

We're hanging on to some goodies.

[Matt]

Let's incentivize.

[Joel]

They're just as beautiful and comfy as ever.

[Matt]

Okay, so is it just a subjective. Yeah, like whatever you think is an awesome question. You're like, that one gets a pair of. Of the green. Aqua Green how to money sauce.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

All right.

[Joel]

It's up to me.

[Matt]

I love it. Send them in.

[Joel]

I'm the king in this case. Okay, so let me tell you a story real quick about something. You and I were two hours north of where we currently live last weekend running a trail race.

[Matt]

Heck, yeah. Congrats to you.

[Joel]

It was fun. We had a great time.

[Matt]

You bested your previous time by six minutes. Seven minutes.

[Joel]

Yeah. Six minutes. All right. So I took the kids out. They have a little candy store. It's a little touristy kind of town.

[Matt]

Are you going to tell the candy apple story? Yeah, dude.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

I. This is so good.

[Joel]

Was so annoyed. The guy in the candy shop. So nice. He was so nice. And then he was like have your kids seen the candy apples yet, though? And I was like, no, they were just, like, looking at some of the other. It's like a chocolate shop. He's like, oh. I was like, they're looking at some

[Matt]

of the other stuff. Touristy, small town, north Georgia. Yeah.

[Joel]

But he draws my daughter's eyeballs over there, and she's like, oh, candy apple with M M's on the exterior. Sign me up. And I'm like, okay, cool. And I'm not. The prices are not well displayed in the store, so I don't really. I'm just imagining everything's probably 7 or 8 bucks that they're picking out, right? Maybe 10. And then he rings it up and something rings up $23.75. And I was like, can you. What.

[Matt]

What.

[Joel]

What is that? What is that? And he was like, oh, it's the apple. And I was like, oh, no wonder you steered us towards the apple. And I couldn't break my daughter's heart at that point in time. That's what she's picked up. She. She picked the. The other part about that one. It's the most expensive apple I've ever paid for in my life by far. 2.

[Matt]

Such a massive markup.

[Joel]

You can't eat a whole candy apple. Nobody can. She ate like eight bites of it. And it's. You trash the rest of it. Which makes it even more of a gutting thing to spend your money on there.

[Matt]

There is very little sustenance that you actually received from it. So, yeah, half. Half of enjoying a candied apple is walking around with it and, like, showing it off.

[Joel]

It's like.

[Matt]

It's like the Jotchkes or whatever, the light up toys at, like, Disney World, right? It's just like the joy that you get from just holding it.

[Joel]

I guess you're never gonna use it again when you get back home, right?

[Matt]

It's broken by the time.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

You get back to the car, like, okay, here. Here's my question. You. Yeah, because you shared this with me. I was like, oh, my gosh, that is so much more expensive than what I was expecting. First of all, the markup, right? I mean, even if it was like the biggest, nicest, like, what are the cosmic crisps or whatever, like the new versions of apples or whatever. At most you may be paying a dollar.

[Joel]

I was gonna say apple like that. So great apple.

[Matt]

For this to be like a 24x markup is just. Yeah, totally insane. The price, though, was it displayed properly or was this. Is this user Error. Is this a consumer issue?

[Joel]

I should have paid more attention.

[Matt]

It was on you or was he.

[Joel]

The prices were poorly displayed.

[Matt]

Was he unintentionally not putting the price out there? Because that's a little shady if he's doing that.

[Joel]

They were displayed. They were just very poorly displayed. And I should have looked before I was like, oh, yeah, get what you want. That's fine. Everybody could get one thing. That was the thing she chose. I just didn't expect it was gonna cost that much money.

[Matt]

Oh, you gotta count on your kids going for the most.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I guess they know dollar signs and what they mean. This is post race, so you got the runner's hot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You and I, we got our beers. We're hanging out in the river, like, cooling down.

[Joel]

We need to post those pics on Instagram so they can.

[Matt]

You know what? I asked Kate if we should, and she said it doesn't look great because we're both standing there shirtless in the river. We're smiling, we're happy. Yeah. But not everyone understands what we just went through.

[Joel]

It's true. For, like, a trail half.

[Matt]

Did you. Did you say anything to the guy when you were just like, no, you didn't know?

[Joel]

I'm not. Okay. No, that's. I just. I bit it and I see about it privately to my wife later and went on about my merry day.

[Matt]

Okay. Because if you felt that it was, like, unfair if the price is. If you're. Let's say there wasn't a price there and he was just like, you know, direct. Direct marketing to the kids. Which feels a little skeezy as well. Right. If it was that market combined with a lack of transparency on the pricing, I would be like, oh, man, I wish you would have had the prices out there. Maybe I should have asked. But that, you know, it would have been better if that was out there for folks to make an informed decision. And depending on his. I don't know. I'm torn between leaving. Leaving a review. But, like, if he would have responded to you poorly, then at that point, that's when I would have been like, I'm not going to one star the guy. Yeah. But I would have been like, 4 stars review the place. All my review would have said is, watch out for the $24 Apple, because other parents need to be warned. You know, like, that's. That's a lot of money.

[Joel]

It is a little bear trap he's setting for me. And I said, funny trap right there, man.

[Matt]

Yeah. Sorry, Paul, you can't go to college because of remember that Candy Apple from 2026.

[Joel]

The compounding returns that this apple could have produced.

[Matt]

It's the rule of 173.

[Joel]

That's right. All right, let's get to the Friday flight. The sampling of stories we found interesting this week and of course they're going to apply to your personal finances. We're going to have some takeaways here. Let's talk about investing, Matt, for just a second. It's not hard to miss signs of exuberance in the markets right now. It's been really interesting to see the market bounce back from the war in Iran is not over, but the market is back to all time highs. Taking along in a very blatant example though of kind of maybe market froth. The shoe company Allbirds, a company that was like formerly worth like $4 billion, which no one seems to care about anymore. I don't see people wearing their Alberts. I don't see the tech people obsessed

[Matt]

with those shoes made of like bamboo and stuff like that.

[Joel]

Wool, mostly wool.

[Matt]

Oh, that's right, wool.

[Joel]

We are wool. They've now pivoted to be bamboo Shoes,

[Matt]

I guess wouldn't be all that comfortable.

[Joel]

I don't think so.

[Matt]

There are some fabrics that are made from bamboo that are super, super soft. I think that's what I was thinking of. People are probably thinking of like, like ancient China and.

[Joel]

Well, that's what I'm thinking, like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt]

Not comfortable.

[Joel]

Well, Allbirds is now an AI company because of course they are. And its stock shot up instantly on the news that it was converting from being a shoe company to being an AI company, which is just so 2026. The stock price has since come back down at least a little bit. But when you look at all the details, Allbirds was going to sink $50 million into AI compute infrastructure. That's a drop in the bucket compared to other companies in the space. Right. It's like bringing a pocket knife to a bazooka fight. They're bound to lose. And as one analyst said, the market is not pricing risk, it's pricing narrative. There's just so much froth and speculation happening right now. I'm not sure if we've reached like peak AI hype, but it sure seems like we're close when we see stories like this. There are just so many ways for investors to lose money right now and they just have to be careful. They got to watch out.

[Matt]

This feel like something that we would have expected to see like a couple years ago. Just, it makes me think of GameStop.

[Joel]

Right? Yeah.

[Matt]

But it's not just a shoe company that is pivoting to AI Joel. MicroStrategy, which is essentially, it's a company that invests in Bitcoin. They now have a new offering that is incredibly shady, which is Stretch. And so the pitch for Stretch is essentially is that it's a preferred stock tied to two risky entities, Bitcoin and MicroStrategy. And you put your money in and then you're going to earn, you know, in the neighborhood of 11% interest, which is. You hear that, right? And you're like, oh my gosh, 11%, that's way better than your high yield savings account. That's way better than your, your money market account. Right. Well, we are here to warn you that if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. And this is just blatant evidence of this. MicroStrategy CEO calls it, it's the most ambitious piece of financial engineering. Which. Yeah, that's totally true.

[Joel]

Where did ambition get Icarus?

[Matt]

That is not a good thing. Right. MicroStrategy is, I can't even say it. MicroStrategy. They're essentially using inflows into Stretch in order to help them to buy even more Bitcoin, which feels like a total like MLM esque investment product.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Like, as long as the money keeps flowing in, we're going to be able to post incredible numbers. And I think Stretch is just another sign of fomo, essentially fear of missing out investing that is likely to come back and bite a whole lot of investors in the butt. One of these days I'm going to be very content to sit back and chill with my VU s and P500 index fund burning off.

[Joel]

Esque.

[Matt]

Right?

[Joel]

When someone says, hey, you can stick Money in here, 11% is going to be your return on that capital.

[Matt]

It's just a new flavor. And folks forget the underlying principle of the fact that it's not necessarily producing anything.

[Joel]

And I think when a financial services firm offers something, there are a lot of people who are just like, well, then this must be legit. How could they offer this if it's not for real? But there's a lot of things offered out there that aren't for real. Like expensive candy apples. Let's talk about retirement messes. We're talking about.

[Matt]

No, no expensive candy apples. That's an actual product.

[Joel]

Right?

[Matt]

Like, that's the difference here.

[Joel]

That's true. I did get a product like the expensive candy apple.

[Matt]

Kind of feels like maybe the original Allbird shoe.

[Joel]

As opposed to hype, this is going to be even more of a rug pull for a lot of people. Okay, so the assumption of how much individuals think that they're going to need in retirement keeps growing. It could be part of the reason that folks feel compelled to take on more risk is because, hey, man, I just. If I'm not growing my net worth and I'm not getting closer to that, like, multimillion dollar threshold, then what am I even doing here? The belief is now that you need $1.46 million to retire comfortably, according to

[Matt]

the average American that's up new like a million. It's like, oh, you don't need to be a millionaire. You need to be a 1.46 millionaire.

[Joel]

That's right. And if you're not there, what are you even doing with your life? And that's up 15% last year. So the people's expectations of what they need are just growing in way. Like you just can't keep up with that. Like, how are you going to be able to keep up with prognostications or feelings that you need just more and more and more? And it's insatiable. And the truth is, it's really important to point out that most folks really don't need that much in retirement. We think a lot of how to Money listeners are going to amass a million dollars. Plus a lot of people out there, Matt, who listen to this show. I hear from them, they're going to, they're going to get 2 million. They're going to hit to 3 million or beyond, like Buzz Lightyear. Right. But that, and that's not a bad thing. Like, we're not against that. But I guess what I'm trying to say, we're also trying not to. We're not trying to convince average Americans to invest less money. But if you project unrealistic needs without knowing your numbers and your likely future needs, it can create undue stress. And I think it can create this drive towards taking more speculative risk. And so those big round numbers also tend to ignore other factors like reduced spending in retirement, if you've paid off your mortgage, or hey, I don't have to save anymore now I'm drawing down on my investments. Social Security income, that's something else. And, and I think it can also lead to nihilism for a lot of people. Saving less because you think you're never going to get there, leads to panic or risky investing decisions. And that's what I want to avoid when someone tells you, hey, you need $1.46 million to retire. You're like, I'm never going to get there. Guess I'm just going to give up. That is the kind of reaction we sometimes see that I want people to avoid.

[Matt]

Sure. There's a part of me that thinks that folks continue to strive after what they've been striving after because they're not actually doing the work and figuring out like, what is enough. What do I want my, my life to look like? They're just doubling down on what they're good at, which I understand. Right. Like you start getting good at something. We talk about this a good bit, you and I do personally. Right. Like how it's good to hit reset on something in your life from a skills perspective to like, essentially relearn what it's like to not be good at something and to like reacquire the skill of actually learning. And in this case, I think a lot of folks are just doubling down what they're good at and they're using needing more money as the excuse to continue doing what they've been doing.

[Joel]

When you're really competent in a few areas in your life, it's really fun to start something new that you're really bad at and to grow because like, at some point, sometimes as an adult, you forget what it's like to be really terrible at something. And that exponential growth curve, it's like, it's super fun to experience it again.

[Matt]

And in particular, if you want to be a well rounded human being. Let's continue this conversation though, Joel. Like, we're talking about investing, we're talking about retirement. This is like how the money's bread and butter. Another tactic that we're going to see more folks taking inside of their retirement accounts is to invest in alternative assets. So we're talking about everything from like private credit to real estate to cryptocurrencies as well. There is an executive order last year that coupled with a Department of labor proposal from last month, are likely to make it easier for riskier choices to be available to regular investors inside their 401k. The context is that we have found ourselves in this era essentially of falling fees for asset managers for years. Essentially all the finance bros, all the Wall street bros. Are not making quite as much money because for instance, Vanguard, they have made it harder for those folks to make it, make a living.

[Joel]

Those guys must hate Vanguard And Fidelity.

[Matt]

Vanguard and Fidelity, yes. And so the way to increase fees and at least to kind of hold the fees in a lot of cases to where they are is to ratchet up the complexity. It makes me think, like target date funds even, for instance, like, we have seen a pretty precipitous drop in expense ratios on target day funds. But if you offer, let's say a target date fund with a slice of the alternatives in there, well, an asset manager can then justify a higher fee.

[Joel]

It's now a sexier product.

[Matt]

It's now an actively managed fee. It's going to charge you more.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

It's going to cost you more. And what they're being sold though are, oh, you're going to get, you're going to earn higher returns, but there's no guarantee that that's actually going to be the case. This is something we talk all about on the show. For instance, publicly traded REITs, they perform better than private real estate funds. This is just a psa, a warning out there for folks. These alternative investments are not all that they're cracked up to be. We don't want you to get distracted. And we're also not saying that index funds are the only way to invest. There are other options out there. But it is hard to beat the broad market, especially when you've got minimal to non existent fees. It's hard to compete with a guaranteed, oh, you're at least going to earn this much because we're not going to charge you that much.

[Joel]

But the marketing behind index funds, Matt, it's just not good. There's a reason it's not good.

[Matt]

It's boring.

[Joel]

It's boring. And because it's so inexpensive, there's not all this extra money to go out there and put awesome commercials on TV or great web ads as you're scrolling down reading your favorite New York Times article that Vanguard is not like, hey, VTI 0.03%. Like, it's just, you just don't see much marketing for Vanguard.

[Matt]

We ought to reach out to the folks at Vanguard and encourage them to make VU T shirts. There you go. Because I would wear it.

[Joel]

Yeah, but the alternative asset class, it's

[Matt]

inherently interesting and new and shiny and

[Joel]

fresh and so I get it. So I think you and I both read the Morning Brew newsletter pretty regularly and man, some of the investment options they have in there. I would classify them in alternative investors. They're pulling out big spreads inside of the Morning Brew newsletter, which, it makes sense. It's the kind of crowd they're trying to attract. But every time I scroll past it, it's like investing this robotics company or whatever. And I'M like, oh my gosh. I bet there's a lot of people who are like, okay, don't like it. It's probably not in their best interest.

[Matt]

Don't like it. Even though I myself am in alt.

[Joel]

You are? Good point.

[Matt]

I feel slightly offended that we're taking such aim at.

[Joel]

I hate all the alts. The alts except for one.

[Matt]

You know, alt means old in German, so I think it's alt mix.

[Joel]

Well then you fit the bill, sir.

[Matt]

Yeah, well, I'm getting there. Keep moving.

[Joel]

Let's talk about 529 plans for a second. One in five parents who aren't saving for their children's future education are holding onto that money because they're uncertain about the future of college. Basically they're looking at the current job market for college grads, the uncertainty of AI models in the future, which makes sense. There's a lot of uncertainty there. They're opting to forsake the 529 because they're like, is college going to be around in the same way? Is it going to make as much sense?

[Matt]

It's a good question to ask.

[Joel]

Should I be investing money ahead of time for a college degree for my kid when I just don't know what the reality is going to look like a decade down the road? This is becoming a trend. The Wall Street Journal had an article about a financial Advisor who has four kids and he's boycotting 529 plans even though he's investing something like six figures every single year. And so you would think somebody who has that much money to invest, well, you dish a little bit out for your kids, right? Like start saving for them because you've already maxed out your 401k, your IRA if you're able, and a bunch going in the taxable brokerage like you, you've, you've got a lot of money to invest. But he's like, hmm, nah, 529 is no go for me. I'm curious, do you think that's a short, short sighted?

[Matt]

Well, I'll say, I'll say that I felt an immediate kinship to this guy because he's kids. He's like staring down the barrel. He's just like, I might have to make a principal decision here and maybe justify, I don't know. Like, do you feel like your opinion has shifted on, on, on 529 plans?

[Joel]

I think I'm similar. I think for we take, we've over

[Matt]

the years we've taken like an optimistic but cautious approach and I think that is still where my head's at.

[Joel]

As they've gotten more flexible. I think before, like before the. What was it was the bill when SAVE Act. The SAVE act, yeah, before the SAVE act that made that allowed you to turn $529 into Roth dollars. That also freed up that money for K through 12 education. I was like, sorry, too pigeonholed. I'm just not very interested now. I'm more interested and I have money in 529 accounts for my kids. But I'm also not like, let me find a way to pay for their whole college by investing on their behalf. Not interested in that either.

[Matt]

Yeah, because I'm struggling too. Like I think about higher education, I think about what they should be learning. Because I think about to your original question, is it too nearsighted? I think about my views and my opinion. Immediately after college when Kate and I started our own business and I remember thinking then I shouldn't have gone to college. Wasted a lot of time, a lot of money. And we're able to do this completely essentially like on our own. It felt very self made. But then you get older and a little wiser and you realize, oh, there's a lot that I learned in college. You know, we're talking about being well rounded people.

[Joel]

Like you mentioned your wife there too.

[Matt]

Yeah, I can't, certainly can't discount that. And so I think that also informs though my, my opinions of higher ed. Like I am optimistic, I think my kids are going to go to college. But I do think paying attention to whatever the threshold is of dollars that you can without penalty transfer into rollover into a Roth. So right now it's $35,000. And so if you have $35,000 in there, great. If you are looking at investing in socking away Even more than $35,000 into a 529, I think you need to start being careful and start really we. Because you're gonna have a whole lot less flexibility when it comes to that. That being said, we're talking about the flexibility of 529s. There are new proposals that can make them even more flexible. Including the ability to use $529 for non degree certification programs. There's actually which I like, but that

[Joel]

could also open up a can of worms.

[Matt]

Well, how's that when you just think

[Joel]

about, think about all the fly by night companies that are gonna be like for profits. A certificate over the how to money certificate of personal finance Excellence. Right. I mean, oh, I feel like spend your $529 here folks.

[Matt]

Dude, we could spin up that academy in no time. I feel like using AI, we could like vibe code our way to creating something that looks really nice, but for legit organizations.

[Joel]

I'm thinking of someone going to get some sort of blue collar certification that's wonderful. Like that you could use $529 for that sort of education.

[Matt]

Well, what do you think about. So there's also proposals about being able to use $529 for like a down payment on a house as well. Do you feel similarly about that?

[Joel]

I think it could make sense. Especially if you like put it after a certain age. Like after the age of 25 you can. So you're.

[Matt]

Yeah, you're still incentivizing folks to use it for higher ed, but if you

[Joel]

have money left over, then you're not, you can still use it for another good cause.

[Matt]

Yeah, they're not totally nailing you to the wall just because you didn't use all the money. Yeah, I like the sound of that. You just have to think about why like 529 plans exist and specifically why they're tied to states. And you think about how states offer certain incentives to say, hey, we will reward you from a tax perspective if you invest your dollars here with us. You're incentivizing folks, I think to stay in state essentially. Not necessarily from a college standpoint, but you're attracting a certain constituency in your state. Right. And I think like states, the way they're thinking about it is that hey, I'm willing to take a hit on the income that the tax income that we would normally be able to generate the tax revenue by offering you a break and saying, hey, you don't have to pay state income tax on the dollars that you set aside in a 529 plan, knowing that the long term benefit for the state is going to be overall better for the state. Right. And so this is why even with when it comes to certifications like blue collar job, like skilled trades essentially is that even though the return on your investment going to a four year college and getting a degree, even though that is declining and we're seeing folks not able to immediately get a job, it's still significantly higher. Yeah, it's still a lot higher on average than a blue collar worker or skilled trade. And so if you're thinking about it that way and what you're incentivizing. Yes. I could see the near term. Oh, this is great. We've got a lot more optionality as an, as an individual to Be able to set those dollars aside, potentially use it for skilled trades, potentially use it for a home. But it doesn't lead to sort of that long term healthy. I hate to say this but like tax paying base that the state is looking, looking to.

[Joel]

They want a more highly educated populace because yes, that's the rising tide that lifts all the boats.

[Matt]

Exactly. And so and then you start to think about if folks are able to use those dollars towards down payments. I think immediately some of the folks who take advantage of that initially are like, yeah, and they're coming out ahead. But what does that do to the housing prices overall? Drives up the prices. Right. And then you are left with potentially, you know, a more expensive asset, a home. But then you don't have like the person behind it to be able to continue to contribute to society. Right. Like there's no engine that powers the home. That's a bad analogy.

[Joel]

But the second order effects of laws

[Matt]

like this, you got to think through

[Joel]

my son, give us policy. And then you're like, but what's actually going to happen? What's the domino effect of something like that?

[Matt]

So you know, that's what policymakers wrestle through and as they're trying to figure out what to incentivize and the immediate problems are also trying to solve.

[Joel]

All right, well we got more to get to and including. We're going to talk. Matt's going to offer his thoughts on Bieber's performance at Coachella. We'll get to that and more right after this.

[Ad Host]

When your Internet drops, you drop it and then switch to Verizon LTE Business Internet. It has coverage your team and your customers can rely on and it's easy to manage with plans that scale to you. Starting at $39 a month. Make the switch to reliable business Internet. Starting Price for LTE Business Internet 25 Mbps Unlimited Data Plan with select Verizon business smartphone plan. Savings terms apply.

[Matt]

Struggling to see up close? Make it visible with viz. VIZ is a once daily prescription eye drop to treat blurry near vision for up to 10 hours. The most common side effects that may be experienced while using VIZ include eye irritation, temporary dim or dark vision, headaches and eye red. Talk to an eye doctor to learn if VIZ is right for you. Learn [e-mail] we're going to hit the

[Joel]

road this summer and we're going to travel slow. We're going to take the scenic route. I'm a big fan of that slow stateside travel with my family. It just reminds me that we're building something worth protecting. And life insurance is a part of that planning ahead process. So here's my suggestion. Get life insurance checked off your to do list in minutes with policygenius so you can make those memories while knowing your family is protected.

[Matt]

That's right. PolicyGenius is an online insurance marketplace that allows you to compare quotes from some of America's top insurers side by side for free. I love doing stuff for free, Joel. They also help you to find your most affordable policy that meets your needs. They're able to answer your questions, they handle the paperwork and they advocate for you throughout the entire process. This is what has earned Policygenius all those five star reviews.

[Joel]

With Policygenius you can see if you can find 20 year life insurance starting at just $276 a year for $1 million in coverage. Head to policygenius.com to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com

[Matt]

yes, we will get to some of the different cultural events that have been happening around the world.

[Joel]

Matt's a Belieber.

[Matt]

Oh my gosh. Don't even.

[Joel]

That's what they call themselves, right?

[Matt]

I don't even know dude. I feel culturally illiterate to be honest with you.

[Joel]

Same. I've got like my own cultural interests, but I don't think they overlap with

[Matt]

the wider my interest societal becoming more and more narrow as opposed to narrower and deeper as opposed to broader and more shallow. But that being said, we've got our ludicrous headline of the week which is from Yahoo. Headline reads HELOCS have changed and some homeowners may not like the new rules. Yes, that is so true. Before we get to that, it's worth mentioning that HELOCs have become more popular as refinancing makes very little sense these days.

[Joel]

Let me get out of my 4% mortgage into a 6 something percent one and take money out.

[Matt]

Folks aren't doing that. They've got that locked in low mortgage. You're hanging on to that. But still, there is a lot to consider before you take out a HELOC. It doesn't mean that HELOCs are an automatic slam dunk. And one of those considerations is where you should go to get that heloc. And this article documents a rise of non bank HELOC lenders. And these are new players who are offering far worse terms. Yes, their website might be very slick. Wow. This interface is much more attractive than what it is that the local credit union is offering because let's be honest, the local credit union sites, it doesn't take much.

[Joel]

They're so bad.

[Matt]

Yeah, like, yeah, I'll get to this in a second. I'm thinking about one of the credit unions I'm with. But these new players, the terms are just worse. They've got like immediate drawdown requirements, they've got inactivity fees, they're nickel and diming you. And so you've got to read the fine print because if you're forced to, let's say you've got to borrow $50,000 immediately on $100,000 loan, you're going to be paying interest right away. This is going to happen immediately as opposed to just on the amount that you need when you need it, which is like the whole point of a heloc. That's why you go with a HELOC instead of a home equity loan. That flexibility is the flexibility you get that line of credit available to you. It's almost like a hybrid product, right? Like where they're marrying a HELOC with a home equity loan, where they're forcing you essentially to get some of that. It makes me think of like car loans that might have like a prepayment penalty.

[Joel]

Right?

[Matt]

Like, it's like, oh, well, if I get the advantage of getting the discount and maybe I'll go ahead and finance it and immediately pay it off. But you got to read the fine print. And if they are forcing you to immediately start making payments may not be worth it.

[Joel]

You might be used to, if you've gotten a home equity line of credit before from a credit union, that flexibility and the lack of fees, no closing costs, typically, and you might be shocked if you look elsewhere, that the headline rate might be a touch better, might not, but that some of the underlying rules have gotten much, much worse.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Joel]

A lot of gotchas.

[Matt]

And you're not used to reading all the fin print because you assume, right. Oh no, HELOCs are HELOCs.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

These HELOCs are a little bit different.

[Joel]

Not all created equal.

[Matt]

And going to my local credit, dude, it's awful. It's awful. Like, they're like, I remember when I first opened it up, I couldn't even figure out how to get money into the account because the way that the accounts are named and then they've got these additional products and it's like, oh, well, you have to move the money from your regular bank to this account and then you have to pay from that. It's ridiculous. The fact that I have to call somebody up and figure out. And it's not intentional, it's just, it's so antiquated and it's just how they've always done it. And it's like the entire credit union is run off of like a singular PC in the back room running off of like Windows 98.

[Joel]

Yeah, Ms. Dos something. Yeah, you're right, it is a bummer. And I wish they had better websites and better interface for customers. But at the same time, like it comes down to the dollars and cents for me. I'd rather go with the credit union with far better terms, better interest rates than go with one of these half baked new online lenders. Agree, while we're talking about housing, even with prices moderating, property taxes continue to go up. They're up roughly 3% year over year. And the average person, I think if you were to take a poll, Matt, they probably don't feel like the services they've gotten are a ton better. Right?

[Matt]

Everything feels the same.

[Joel]

Yeah, everything feels the same. But the costs continue to rise. And so their property tax bill might have risen something like 100% in the past eight years or so, but they don't feel like things have gotten 100% better in their neighborhood. And you might think that's because the only certain things in life are death and taxes. That is mostly true. And you can't fight death that's coming for all of us. But you can fortunately fight back on your property tax bill. So it's certain that you're going to have a property tax bill if you own a home. But can you reduce or mitigate it? Yes. We're getting to the time of year where most counties and cities actually send out property tax bills. It's happening. Okay, Just be ready.

[Matt]

Oh man. I was talking.

[Joel]

Sorry, keep going.

[Matt]

I was just talking. I was talking to a friend of ours recently and he was talking about escrow and he's getting new insurance and he's just like, oh, proper, you know, property taxes. And I was just, I was like, hey, heads up. Your house hadn't been sold prior to you buying it for like the past seven years and values have gone up significantly. So you might want to prepare for a shock on the next assessment, which is true.

[Joel]

And usually hopefully the lender helps you prepare for that as their figuring out how much you're going to put into escrow. But if they don't make a smart prediction, you are, your escrow account is short and you're going to have to make up for that at some point. In the future, I would say the first things first. Check it for accuracy. Make sure your property tax bill is accurate. If it seems too high, challenge it. And by accuracy, I mean is the square footage actually correct? Does the county know how big your home is? You might be valued too more highly than similar comps, so it's worth checking. Recently sold homes nearby. This is something you can do yourself, but you can also enlist help. And there are lawyers out there who. I've hired a lawyer in the past, Matt, I forget. I think I paid like 250 bucks and it was totally worth it because he fought on my behalf and reduced my property tax bill. And in our state at least, they locked that in for three years. There's also a service and we have an article on our website about them called ownwell. And ownwell is kind of that super easy way to go. If you want them to fight your property tax bill on your behalf, they take a cut of the savings. But hey, if you're like, I don't know how to do this, I don't want to do this, I don't want to figure it out. But I do want to reduce my property tax bill, that's a good way to go.

[Matt]

That's right. And if you have recently purchased a home, by the way, make sure that you have filed for homestead exemption, which shaves something like 40% off, typically the appraised value. Let's talk about your credit scores, Joel, because credit score provider fico, they did a little bit of research and they found that Gen Z is opening up more credit cards than any other generation, which kind of intuitively makes sense. Right. They're out there starting their, it's a fresh slate. They're starting their beautiful financial lives and obviously the result is going to be a temporary score drop. Yeah. But if handled wisely, it's going to reap rewards over the long haul as you boost your credit score and establish that history of on time payments. But similar to every other American generation, they are turning to those credit cards in a pinch. So when faced with income reduction or job loss, Gen Z is relying on the credit card that they've opened up to make their make ends meet. Which is not good. Right. It's okay to open up a new card here, there if it makes sense for how it is that you spend, but build up those savings too. And remember that this recurring credit card debt that you might be getting a little too comfortable with is going to lead to you slowly digging a hole for, for your future financial self that you're gonna have to somehow find a way out of. Yeah.

[Joel]

And that's the. When we hear from people who are in credit card debt, Matt, it usually was like a slow dig. It wasn't like, oh, man, I just like, went hog wild on QVC for like three months and now I slowly

[Matt]

get used to it. Man, the water that you're in, just slowly the temperature starts ratcheting up and

[Joel]

the balance creeps up.

[Matt]

Yeah. Before you know it, it's unsustainable. You're living beyond paycheck to paychecks in some cases.

[Joel]

But it's easier. It's easier to. To get into the credit card debt than it is to get out. So preventing it in the first place is the best way to live. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal about high earners embracing thriftiness with the exception of a few crucial line items in their budget. I liked this article, Matt, because it shows that some people, even with high incomes, are purposely working to reduce certain costs in their lives.

[Matt]

Love it.

[Joel]

That they thought maybe were immovable. So, like their grocery budget cutting back on their. Their frilly sort of purchases. Like, instead of the fancy shampoo, I'm going with the bottom shelf shampoo. What is it?

[Matt]

The.

[Joel]

The Suave. Right, That's. I'm going with the suave V05. Yeah, that's. That's like the dirt cheapest one.

[Matt]

Super cheap, actually was. I've gotten them before in the pharmacy

[Joel]

recently picking up a med for my kid. And I was like, oh, how much does that cost now? It's still like $1.59.

[Ad Host]

Okay.

[Matt]

Used to be 99 cents for the big bottle.

[Joel]

It did, so. So inflation has hit it. But think about how much cheaper shampoo you're going to use. I don't. I'm not smart enough to know or I haven't looked into it, at least enough to know. Is the nicer shampoo actually better for your hair? My hair's just fine most of the time, no matter what shampoo I use. But I know especially you don't have

[Matt]

to have a Brillo pad up there. Joel, you could have.

[Joel]

I guess I could.

[Matt]

Smoother locks.

[Joel]

I did use conditioner for the first time in a long time recently.

[Matt]

And you're like, it's so soft.

[Joel]

I get it. So soft. I don't even think it was nice conditioner. It was at the.

[Matt]

Some cheap stuff.

[Joel]

Crummy Airbnb we stayed in.

[Matt]

But you're like, what's this white shampoo? I'm used to the gels oh, conditioner. But it was interesting. Before you know it, Joe's gonna be talking about face moisturizer. There's this thing called lotion.

[Joel]

Have y' all ever heard of it? It'll be a whole new man. Well, people. These people are also more willing to shop at Walmart or Aldi to save money in order to essentially put more money towards the stuff that they care about the most, like the experiences that they really want to achieve. And this is something we talk about all the time on the show. Matt. This is the craft beer equivalent. Sure is. That we advocate for. We've been recommending for at least a decade. You know, thrift store clothes, older cars. Means if you make those intentional decisions, you have more optionality. You can make bigger splurges on the other stuff you care about. I think sometimes as Americans that we get into this rut of, like, I got to have it all, and we can't. Like, we all have limitations, and their financial limitations are, like, for real. The math don't lie. And so if you can cut back in those other areas, even if you're just like, hey, I'm trying to save 4 or 5% on my grocery budget every single month moving forward, so I can allocate that towards this travel budget that I. Man, because I really want to go to Spain before I die. You know, I'd probably make it happen by 2028 if I'm thoughtful and intentional. But if you keep buying the fancy shampoo, it sounds ridiculous because it's just one thing, but it adds up when you think of that over a bunch of different line items.

[Matt]

Forget the latte factor. This is the shampoo factor. But splurging when you don't have the money is a bad idea. And it turns out that more than 60% of the massive crowd at Coachella, more than 60%, not 1660 at Coachella, used Buy now, pay later to buy their tickets, which, yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous. And of course, Coachella, they charged a fee, making the cost of the already expensive event even more costly. And on top of that, it's not just the tickets to get in. It's not admission. Folks are also using buy now, pay later for their lodging, for food, for merchandise, and pretty much everything else that you can buy there at the festival, which makes for a really fun time until you have to eventually pay the bill over the next four months, I guess. So. So, yeah, reducing the upfront cost, it seems like a good thing, and it allows you to do all the things you want to do even if you don't have the money on hand. But it's creating really bad habits for folks. You know, you got things that you want to do and you haven't planned for it. You are becoming more Buy Now, Pay later reliance. And this is yet another sort of case where I think that you got. You should be saving up like something like a concert. Pay for that in cash. And I feel like it's just more of an old school approach to saving

[Joel]

up for your stuff as opposed to

[Matt]

becoming payment buyers and constantly putting yourself on this sort of payment cycle.

[Joel]

I don't let the wheel.

[Matt]

Right.

[Joel]

And at some point you're just. You're really making it hard for yourself to succeed. If you lean on Buy Now, Pay later. And that's like if you lean on credit cards getting into credit card debt. If you're using credit cards and spending it in the way we advocate for it, then you're using them intelligently. I just don't know that there's really any reason to use Buy Now, Pay later because if you're using credit cards intentionally, Buy Now, Pay later is worthless to you, essentially. Right.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

And Buy Now, Pay later, it's really just a. For most people, it's a psychological mechanism to alleviate the pain. It's the crutch of a $600 Coachella ticket or whatever it is that it costs. Yeah. And. And yet it's going to ultimately cost you more and you're going to be less on top of your finances if you use Buy Now, Pay later on the reg. And what did you think of Bieber's set where he sat down at a desk and played old YouTube videos of himself?

[Matt]

I did hear about that. I've got no opinion.

[Joel]

Okay. I don't really either.

[Matt]

That's not the stage of life we're in.

[Joel]

No. I feel bad for the guy in some ways because he's so well known for music he made when he was a child. Right. And I guess people still want to hear that stuff and probably that's frustrating after a while too.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

He's kind of like the modern day Macaulay Culkin.

[Joel]

Yeah, perhaps something like that. But yeah, he's doing better.

[Matt]

Better than Britney Spears, let's say that. I guess I do believe that's true. At least from a.

[Joel]

See, we know some stuff about pop culture conservative.

[Matt]

A conservatorship. Is that what they recently filed again?

[Joel]

Oh, she's back in one.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think she like checked herself in.

[Joel]

They made some like documentary about people were really Advocating for Brittany.

[Matt]

Free Brittany.

[Joel]

Yeah. Okay, There's.

[Matt]

There's our cultural dose for. For the week.

[Joel]

You know, something about what's happening out there in the real world.

[Matt]

I know just enough to be dangerous and sound like an idiot.

[Joel]

There's also new information about how expensive the quote unquote, annoyance economy has become. Apparently, it's costing us $165 billion collectively. This is according to a few economists who work together to figure this out. Basically, what they're saying, Matt, is that we're being nickeled and dimed everywhere we turn. Little fee here or there, just like that Coachella. Buy now, pay later.

[Ad Host 2]

Whoa.

[Joel]

Yeah, you could pay it off in four, but we're gonna charge you $38 for the ability to do that. People are like, okay, sure, a $38 fee. Who cares? Why not? It's a drop in the bucket of my expensive ticket. Well, that's part of it, right? Frustrating cancellation policies. That's another part of it. We also end up wasting more time because of the added roadblocks that companies are putting in our way, making it harder for us to cancel. And so we're just like, ah, screw it. I'll do it later. Which means we stay signed up for another month or two or something like that. Like canceling a gym contract or a streaming service sometimes can be. Can be frustrating. And so I guess this just makes me think that we should be even more careful when we're signing up for a service in the first place. It can seem really good in the moment. Like, yes, this is great. I can't wait to sign up for this service. It's gonna be. It's gonna be awesome. I'm thinking about, like, especially this time of year, Matt. A car wash membership sounds so good at the time, and, oh, my goodness, it's like, you know, the cost of the membership is barely more than just one wash, and I'm going to come here all the time. What if you stop going there regularly and it's frustrating to cancel it? Well, maybe now you're paying for a car wash membership and you're not actually using it. That sucks. That's a bummer. That's a waste of money. So make sure. I would say it's going to be worth the headache that you're going to incur when you try to cancel down the road. If it is, do it. And then just be prepared for that hassle on the back end. Am I, like, thrilled that this annoyance economy exists and that there's more fees and frustrations for all of us. No. But I also don't know that there's any, like, silver bullet way around it except for us kind of watching our own backs.

[Matt]

That's right, buddy. And you know what? Let's get out of here. It's Friday. We hope everyone has great plans for the weekend and we will see you back here on Monday with a fresh Ask how to Money episode. Of course, you can find any resources we may have mentioned during this episode up on my [e-mail] so buddy, that's gonna be it. So until next time.

[Joel]

And that new certification program too. And that only $5,000 and potentially can come out of your 529 fund.

[Matt]

So.

[Joel]

But what do we say until next time? Best friends out Best.

[Ad Host]

When your Internet drops, you drop it and then switch to Verizon LTE Business Internet. It has coverage your team and your customers can rely on and it's easy to manage with plans that scale to you starting at $39 a month. Make the switch to Reliable Business Internet. Starting price for lte Business Internet 25 Mbps Unlimited Data Plan with select Verizon Business Smartphone plan. Savings terms apply.

[Matt]

Is it just me or is it getting really hard to figure out the best way to save for retirement? Well, Fidelity can help you to find clarity so you can save the best way for you. With a free personalized plan, goal tracking, and timely insights, you'll be set to take on retirement your way.

[Joel]

Get [e-mail] future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services Member NYSE SIPC

[Ad Host 2]

Most Mother's Day gifts end up in a drawer, but a song lives in the heart forever. This year, tryjoybox.com is giving away 1 million free custom songs to celebrate 1 million incredible moms. Just share a few memories and joy. Box produces an original track and greeting card just for her instantly. It's the most personal gift you'll ever give. And right now, it's completely free. Make mom the star of her own [e-mail] 1,000,000 songs $0 [e-mail] this is an iHeart podcast.

[Joel]

Guaranteed human.