Friday Flight - Credit Crunch, MAGA Money, & Gas Gouging #987

Summary

How to Money Podcast Episode Summary: "Friday Flight - Credit Crunch, MAGA Money, & Gas Gouging #987"

Release Date: May 23, 2025

In Episode #987 of "How to Money," hosts Joel and Matt delve into a variety of pressing financial topics, including America's recent credit rating downgrade, the evolving landscape of youth employment, and the unsettling trend of gas stations imposing additional fees for credit card usage. This comprehensive summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, complete with notable quotes and timestamps to guide you through the conversation.

---

1. Personal Stories: Joel’s Dishwasher Saga [02:34 - 07:14]

Joel and Matt kick off the episode by sharing a personal anecdote about Joel's experience purchasing and installing new dishwashers from Costco. Joel recounts buying four units, selling two on Facebook for $500 each, and ultimately getting a free dishwasher installation through his father's involvement.

• Joel: "So I sold the other two on Facebook pretty quickly for 500 bucks each... I ended up getting paid to get a new dishwasher put in at my house." [04:07]

This light-hearted segment transitions into a discussion about the efficiency and effectiveness of Bosch dishwashers, highlighting improvements in cleaning and drying performance compared to previous models.

2. America's Credit Rating Downgrade [07:14 - 11:51]

The conversation shifts to a macroeconomic issue: the recent downgrade of America's credit rating by a major credit rating agency, now aligning with the other two major agencies.

• Joel: "After Moody's, one of the credit rating agencies joined the other two credit rating agencies and downgraded America's credit standing." [08:00]

Matt provides context, explaining that while the downgrade signals potential challenges, America's overall financial strength remains robust compared to other nations.

• Matt: "America's financial strength is still unparalleled. When we're talking about pure nations, we're number one." [09:33]

They discuss the implications of the downgrade, emphasizing that it reflects long-term fiscal management issues rather than immediate economic threats. The hosts also touch upon the political aspects, noting that past downgrades occurred under different administrations, underscoring that credit ratings are not inherently political.

3. Youth Employment and Avoiding College Debt [11:51 - 15:50]

Joel and Matt explore the rising trend of high school juniors receiving substantial job offers, sometimes exceeding $70,000 without holding college degrees. This phenomenon is attributed to a significant shortage of skilled labor in trades such as welding and airplane mechanics.

• Matt: "Companies are hiring these kids who have shop experience... blue collar work apprenticeships are thriving right now." [12:35]

Joel shares insights from a friend involved in a program training high school students as airplane mechanics, highlighting how these opportunities allow young individuals to earn substantial incomes immediately after high school.

• Joel: "They're going to get paid more than I am when they graduate high school. That's amazing." [15:04]

The hosts advocate for such pathways as viable alternatives to traditional college education, emphasizing the importance of building skills that lead to financial independence without incurring significant student loan debt.

4. Investing in Youth: Roth IRA Initiatives [15:50 - 18:11]

The discussion moves to financial education for young people, with Joel highlighting an initiative by Jonathan Clements of The Humble Dollar. Despite battling terminal lung cancer, Clements launched a program to encourage teens from low-income families to invest in Roth IRAs, pairing education with free matching contributions.

• Joel: "Proceeds from his new book... are going to fund a getting going on savings initiative." [16:06]

Matt appreciates the initiative, noting its potential to instill lifelong saving and investing habits among the youth.

• Matt: "Jonathan is putting his money where his mouth is in this. He's really investing in kids." [17:10]

They emphasize the importance of individual actions in fostering financial literacy and stability for future generations.

5. Gas Gouging: Additional Fees for Credit Card Usage [25:31 - 31:01]

Joel introduces a concerning trend where gas stations are imposing extra charges—up to $1 per gallon—for customers using credit cards. Citing reports from Yahoo Finance and Kiplinger, they highlight that this practice is becoming more widespread, particularly in Florida.

• Joel: "Gas stations are charging customers a dollar more a gallon for using credit cards. That’s messed up." [25:37]

Matt explains that while some gas stations surcharge credit card transactions to offset processing fees, the exorbitant surcharge rates serve as a poor business strategy, potentially driving customers away.

• Matt: "It's a short-sighted cash grab... It doesn't make financial sense long-term." [27:48]

They advise listeners to stay vigilant and consider alternative payment methods or different gas stations to avoid unnecessary expenses.

6. Rising Home Internet Costs [31:01 - 34:22]

The hosts address the significant rise in home internet costs, noting that two-thirds of consumers are paying more than the previous year without receiving improved service.

• Joel: "Two-thirds of folks are paying more for Internet than they were last year... service has not improved." [31:01]

Matt attributes this increase to the lack of competition in many areas, where consumers are often stuck with limited providers.

• Matt: "Home Internet is not a competitive industry... It’s a duopoly in many locations." [32:14]

They offer practical tips for listeners to reduce their bills, such as negotiating with providers, downgrading speeds, or purchasing their own equipment to eliminate rental fees.

7. Subscription Costs: The Rise of Paid Newsletters [34:22 - 35:32]

Joel and Matt discuss the growing trend of paid newsletters, exemplified by platforms like Substack. While acknowledging the value of supporting independent creators, they caution against subscription fatigue.

• Matt: "You just kind of get used to paying a little bit more, a little bit more every single month... it really adds up." [33:51]

Joel emphasizes the importance of evaluating the usefulness of each subscription to avoid overspending on unused or low-value content.

• Joel: "If there's something you haven't read, you're like, man, that's just wasted money." [34:22]

They recommend prioritizing subscriptions that provide significant value and aligning with personal financial goals.

8. Investing Myths: Real Estate and Gold vs. Stocks [35:32 - 38:20]

A Gallup report reveals that many Americans mistakenly believe real estate and gold are superior long-term investments compared to the stock market. Joel and Matt debunk this myth, presenting data that supports stocks as the more reliable wealth-building vehicle over extended periods.

• Joel: "It's a sticky myth... stocks have done well too." [36:31]

Matt points out that while real estate can be lucrative, it requires substantial effort, capital, and market knowledge, making it less accessible for the average investor.

• Matt: "Dollar cost averaging into the market paying low fees and just doing that... is still the best way for the vast majority of folks." [37:00]

They advocate for a disciplined, consistent investment strategy in the stock market as the most effective path to long-term financial growth.

9. The Stealthy Wealth of Small Businesses [38:20 - 41:10]

The episode concludes with a discussion on the "stealthy wealthy"—small to medium-sized business owners who quietly build substantial wealth through stable, reliable enterprises like flooring manufacturing, auto dealerships, and beverage distribution.

• Joel: "It doesn't have to be sexy to make money... those things get neglected so often because they're not snazzy." [39:48]

Matt highlights the potential for acquiring established businesses from retiring baby boomers, presenting it as a viable wealth-building strategy without the need for fame or flashy investments.

• Matt: "How successful those people can be... it's a great way to go." [40:19]

They encourage listeners to consider traditional business ownership as a foundational element of their financial strategy.

10. Listener Shoutout [40:57 - 41:10]

The hosts take a moment to acknowledge a listener, Bill, who has launched his own comics website, showcasing their appreciation for their audience's support.

---

Conclusion

In this episode of "How to Money," Joel and Matt provide listeners with valuable insights into both personal and macroeconomic financial matters. From understanding the implications of America's credit rating downgrade to debunking common investing myths and exploring alternative career paths for youth, the hosts offer practical advice aimed at empowering listeners to make informed financial decisions. Their engaging discussions underscore the importance of financial literacy, strategic investing, and the continual pursuit of knowledge to navigate the complexities of today's economic landscape.

Notable Quotes:

• Joel: "They don't realize that they've got these financial blind spots like eating out or spending on food delivery." [21:51]

• Matt: "Competition works, man, because prices create important signals to shoppers." [30:09]

• Joel: "If there's something you haven't read, you're like, man, that's just wasted money." [34:22]

• Matt: "Dollar cost averaging into the market paying low fees and just doing that... is still the best way for the vast majority of folks." [37:00]

---

For more insights and tools to enhance your financial journey, tune into the latest episodes of "How to Money" and visit howtomoney.com.

Transcript

[Matt]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Joel]

Almost all of us have got old stuff that we should be tossing out, but an old 401k make sure it keeps working for you. A Fidelity Rollover IRA has no account fees or minimums to open. An easy to follow rollover process makes it simple to get started in under 15 minutes. Plus you'll have access to a rollover specialist.

[Matt]

That's right, whether you've switched jobs or are just organizing your finances. Learn [e-mail] rollover consider all your options and the applicable fees and features of each before moving your retirement assets. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member NYSE SIPC.

[Unknown]

Breaking News T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid cart. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card will have 15 days qualified unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days, device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Joel]

Where do you see your career in 10 years? What are you doing now to help you get there? The sooner you start enhancing your skills, the sooner you'll be ready. That's why AARP has reskilling courses in a variety of categories like marketing and management to help your income live as long as you do.

[Matt]

That's right. AARP has a bevy of free skill building courses for you to choose from. Because the steps that you choose to take today will help you to love what you do in the future. And that's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP. Learn more at aarp.org skills welcome to how to Money.

[Joel]

I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I am Matt, the other host and.

[Joel]

Today we're talking about the credit crunch, maga money and gas gouging.

[Matt]

Joe, you know I can't but hear credit crunch and think of like a cereal I would have eaten back in like 1991. Mm lady too does was that peak cereal? Peak cereal aisle?

[Joel]

I don't know man. I just saw something just the other day that apparently cereal is getting even worse for you. Like it's become of course.

[Matt]

Yeah, cereals terrible. How's it getting worse? Because they're taking all the dyes out.

[Joel]

Well, maybe it will get less worse in the near future, but Right now, for the time being.

[Matt]

Right now, it's the worst.

[Joel]

We're at peak cereals, terrible for your health.

[Matt]

So I feel like the 90s were peak cereal culture, like just as far as it just constantly being everywhere.

[Joel]

Cheerios, they normalize it on the commercials to make it seem like parents. Let your kids wake up on Saturday, get a couple bowls of cereal and watch that tv.

[Matt]

You know, that heart shaped bowl of Cheerios with the one strawberry, which seems.

[Joel]

Less bad, and it probably is less bad than a lot of the other kinds that you could eat.

[Matt]

But those are just a few of the stories we're going to get to today on our Friday flight, which generally speaking is a nice little sampling of the different headlines we've come across this week. And specifically, we like to address how, how those issues are gonna impact your money specifically. But before we get to all that, Joel, do you wanna give a quick little update on your dishwasher? The dishwasher saga that we shared on Monday with folks. I'm sure folks are wondering.

[Joel]

They've been on the edge of their seat. I know. Well, yeah. So I ended up, I bought four dishwashers from Costco, as I said, and my wife was.

[Matt]

Were they all shrink wrapped together? Were they connected with the big handle, the plastic handle?

[Joel]

That would be amazing. How could you carry that? Well, no, separately shrink wrapped like olive oils, but man. So I had mine installed and sold my old dishwasher. And then my dad wanted one of the dishwashers and so got free installation from Costco for mine and for his. And then I sold.

[Matt]

Serious deja vu. But keep going, keep going.

[Joel]

And then so I sold the other two on Facebook pretty quickly for 500 bucks each. So my dad, I gave him the. Essentially the price that I paid per dishwasher, right. But for the ones I sold.

[Matt]

So you get that kin discount.

[Joel]

That's right. But I'm not gonna like charge him extra. But people on Facebook paid the full freight that I was asking, 500 bucks. I was like, well, I started off higher than that because I was like, maybe I'll get more. But had takers at 500. And so ultimately I ended up not getting paid, which I thought I would. I think I told you I thought I would and I did. I ended up getting paid to get a new dishwasher put in at my house.

[Matt]

And.

[Joel]

And like I told you, the other one was getting long in the tooth. I was getting frustrated with it. So, yeah, I'm happy.

[Matt]

So, okay, so the big question, does it. You've had it now for a few days. And you. So you said you wanted to get a new dishwasher because your old one. You are the man who handles the.

[Joel]

Dishes like the shower.

[Matt]

You are. Yeah. You're in charge of cleanup. Does it clean better? Because this is a Bosch dishwasher, and we know that with it being a German company. Well, I guess just because it's German doesn't mean it's automatically better. But Bosch specifically are incredibly highly rated. They last. Does it. Does it clean better?

[Joel]

It's been cleaning better. And so my mornings when I'm putting the dishes away are far less frustrating.

[Matt]

Are they drier as well?

[Joel]

They are drier as well. Yeah.

[Matt]

See, that was my. That was my big holdup because of the plastics. Yeah, I was. Yeah. All right.

[Joel]

There's certain spots in, like, those kids food containers that just are never going to get all the way dry. I don't think in any. Like, if it could have. If it could get rid of all the water in there, that'd be impressive.

[Matt]

But evidently some of them can, including plastics. Okay. So one of our biggest hangups has been we tried some, like, some green detergent pods because we're like, yeah, you know, maybe we should be a little more health conscious. Health conscious. But they didn't do a great job cleaning the freaking dishes. And I. Dude, I am incredibly hesitant to throw something away. I don't like to waste stuff. It's the leftovers principle. Right. Like, you got it. Like, put it to use. I was so close to tossing those things because the dishes were not getting clean. I was so happy to see. To put the last pod in the thing. And then we kind of swung in the other direction and got like, these incredibly highly rated, very not natural, very not green little gel pod looking things or whatever. And I hate those, too. Not because. So they do a good job cleaning.

[Joel]

So what's the best?

[Matt]

Well, the fragrance specifically on these is terrible. Like, all the cups and plates, everything smells like this.

[Joel]

Smell like flowers or something.

[Matt]

Yeah, I hate it. Again, I'm like, this close to tossing all those, but I can't bring myself to waste these. Perfectly fine. They get the job done.

[Joel]

Frugal conundrum right there.

[Matt]

Oh, I got a grit and bear it.

[Joel]

And I can't give them to somebody you think might appreciate them.

[Matt]

Maybe we should. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to being done with those and just moving back to the. What is it? The Powerball. You know, it's got the little red classic. I feel like those are just. They're not overly fancy. They're not super expensive. They don't seem like the absolute worst pods for you, but I don't know.

[Joel]

Buy them on sale.

[Matt]

And that's what we had been using. I don't know why we switched it up. Is that what y' all use?

[Joel]

No, we use the liquid because you.

[Matt]

Like, squirt it in there. Is it.

[Joel]

I'm old school like that.

[Matt]

You get this from Costco?

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So it's a Kirkland cig.

[Joel]

It's not Kirkland Sig.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Joel]

No.

[Matt]

What is it?

[Joel]

You get what the brand is. It's in a green bottle, but they want to say it's like seven bucks for a giant tub of dishwasher liquid.

[Matt]

Oh, interesting.

[Joel]

Yeah, not bad.

[Matt]

Go for it, buddy. Let's keep moving, though. This is like, quite a departure from what we're talking about now that you want to talk about.

[Joel]

I just want to say at the.

[Matt]

Macro level, what's going on.

[Joel]

It's thrilling to me, to the frugal guy in me to get paid to put a new dishwasher in when I already met that.

[Matt]

I am very happy for you.

[Joel]

For me, that just. That's like a. That's a big money one.

[Matt]

That's good.

[Joel]

But yes. Let's talk about a bunch of other stories, Matt. Personal finance stories that are going to impact people's. People's finances and America's credit worthiness. That's something that we should probably talk about in the beginning. It's in greater question right now. After Moody's, one of the credit rating agencies joined the other two credit rating agencies and downgraded the America's credit standing. So it's like essentially Equifax telling you, yeah, you had a 740. Now you're down to like 725. We just don't think you're as good at handling credit as we thought before. But this is on a national scale, so this isn't surprising. But it does shine a light on our unwillingness to face economic facts head on as a country. I think it's. Some people might be overestimating the impact, though. I think this is also not a red warning light that should be freaking us all out, but it does reveal the fact that our country could be on better financial footing if we were better managing our entitlement programs and our overall debt load. That would have a positive impact. That's actually part of the reason, I think, that this big, beautiful bill, as it's being called, is becoming a political football right now. The extra trillions in debt that we're likely to be racking up in the coming decades if this bill goes through, which could impact the economy and the desirability of owning US Treasuries, which impacts all of us. Right. But it's also relative. Right. Matt, you and I have had these conversations off the mic. America's financial strength is still unparalleled. When we're talking about pure nations, we're number one. Yeah. Still, even if we're all like making dumb moves like shooting ourselves in the foot to a certain extent, America is still in a top notch position. So I think similar to prior downgrades from the other corporations, credit rating agencies, I think it's likely to have a minimal impact, but it doesn't mean it's still not tough to watch.

[Matt]

I totally agree. So yeah, I wanted to highlight that because there has been a lot of talk about this being political. It's not political. So the first downgrade as we came down from the AAA rating, it happened back in 2011 and guess who was president back then? A very popular Democrat who was residing in the White house, Barack Obama.

[Joel]

2013 for some reason I think, well.

[Matt]

Maybe it was 2011, maybe 2013, but then I know that the second one of the other ones, maybe it was Fitch at that point downgraded, that happened in 2023. And I remember we covered that then and again how it's likely to be overblown, but it's definitely not political. Cuz you've got two Democratic presidents who are in office at that point in time. It is not political. But I also don't think it's as big of a deal as many folks are making it out to be. Because in particular I find myself thinking more and more in this line of thought, thinking about what are the alternatives when it comes to borrowing from countries. And so I looked it up and there are maybe about a dozen countries out there who still have retained the perfect AAA status. But here's the thing, they're tiny. They are so stinking small. Like so you average the GDP of those around 12 countries who still retain that perfect rating and we are something like 27 times larger than the average GDP of all those countries. Not combined, but just on average like it's anywhere from. It was like Germany's the biggest and I think there's something like $4 trillion or something like that compared to the US's 27. But a lot of the other countries are closer to not 4 trillion but like 3, 2 and most of them are in the hundreds of billions of dollars that retain that perfect rating. So that's something to keep in mind on a macro level as folks are freaking out. I don't think this is something that folks should be overly concerned about.

[Joel]

Yeah. And you say that it's not political and I think you're right. It's not some sort of like denigration of a particular party or their policies. But I do think this is in some ways the extension of the tax cuts and job act or this new big beautiful bill that we're starting to learn more about, which I'm sure we'll talk more about next week. The tax cuts, extension of the tax cuts, the elimination of taxes on Social Security tips, overtime pay. Those policies aren't reining spending in any meaningful way. It's not obviously just a reflection of the current administration. It's a reflection of what's been happening with under both Democratic, Democrat and Republican regimes.

[Matt]

It's a reaction to the fiscal reality of what's likely to happen.

[Joel]

But I think we're also seeing, oh wait a second, like this bill, while, yeah, it'll provide tax savings for many Americans, it'll grow the deficit which is not great for the long term financial health of our country.

[Matt]

Yeah. And of course on an individual level, borrowing costs are going to go up because these, I mean basically the US has been told, hey, you know, before you're dishing out these, these treasuries at 4%, like we're going to need to see a little more from you because we're not totally sure if you're going to be able to pay these off. And so we saw like 30 year treasuries go from like they went over 5% for the first time in quite a while. But the way this is going to impact us as individuals, specifically for borrowers. Right. So for folks who are looking to buy a home, the 30 year fixed mortgage rate is closely aligned with a 10 year trip treasury note. This is how it's gonna more directly impact folks on a, on a personal level. But even still, I wouldn't be freaking out. Joe, let's talk about the youths for a minute here.

[Joel]

What are the kids up to?

[Matt]

Matt? Not totally sure. I'm not on social media as much these days, but I did see that some high school juniors are getting $70,000 job offers which is more than the average pay for Americans across the country.

[Joel]

You know what I would say to that? Skibidi rizzler or that's not what I'm assuming kids would say to that.

[Matt]

I think that's what you would have to say. Honestly, I would just assume I heard.

[Joel]

That like six months ago from my daughter. So I'm assuming that's not cool anymore.

[Matt]

This is incredibly impressive for teenagers who are just starting out with no college degrees. And so you might be thinking, gosh, these are some smart kids. They've gotten straight A's, maybe they've got an insane score on their SATs, whatever other Tests these kids are taking these days. Nope, that is not the case. Companies are hiring these kids who have shop experience something like welding, for instance, and they are being courted almost like star athletes because of the extreme lack of skilled labor in the country. We've talked about this before, including with different experts here on the show.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But blue collar work apprenticeships are thriving right now. And, man, you combine that with the ability to start making money early, you're able to avoid college debt. It's certainly not for everyone, but I really love seeing this trend. It's hard for me to not project and picture myself in a situation like this where I wasn't totally sure what I wanted to do when I was 16 or 17. And I say that because that's what, how old you are when you're a junior, that's when you start making some of these decisions as to what you might be doing for the next five years of your life. We were talking to a friend of ours recently. They've got a rising senior. They're going to be spending the summer going to different colleges. And that's great for a lot of folks who are. I mean, kids who are. I was not mature at that age. That's all I'm going to say. That's all I'm saying. And I lucked out. I was fortunate enough to not have to take on student loans and chose a degree that landed me in great careers. And I found my way, Joel. But for a lot of students out there, I think this can be such a fantastic way to make some money for a couple of years to gain some maturity, to figure out what it is that you want to do with your life before you. Especially before you take on some inordinate student loan debt.

[Joel]

Yeah, I mean, there's a school not too far from where we live. And one of our friends, Matt, oversaw this program of kids learning to become airplane mechanics. And so amazing. They are graduating with the best skill set, better skill set than most of their peers with immediate professions. And he would, he told me this with a little smack of, I don't know, sadness on his face. He's like, they're going to get paid more than I am.

[Matt]

Right.

[Joel]

When they graduate high school. Because he's a teacher. And like, I hear the pain in your voice when you say that, but also the pride that those kids are able to instantly earn, coming from a tough background in lots of situations, instead of instantly earned more than he was after all the education he'd received.

[Matt]

It's amazing.

[Joel]

And it's not that, I mean, when you look at the data still, on average, people earn more with a college degree over the lifetime of their earnings, a million dollars more over time, but it's also with the price of college and with the dearth of blue collar workers. If you're smart in the path that you take, you can do better, I think, in many instances than your college counterparts. Especially the people who go to college for a couple years, then drop out. They've got college debt, they don't have the degree to show for it. That's the worst case scenario.

[Matt]

Yeah, especially when it hasn't cost you any money to gain these skills. Like, why not buy yourself a couple years if you want to change your mind? That's something you can do. You can then apply for college at that point in time when you've got maybe a clear idea of what it is you want to pursue and drop tens of thousands of dollars on in.

[Joel]

Higher ed and how much you spend on that. College education is crucial, especially in today's job market and environment. If you're talking about taking on, you know, six figures in student loan debt, that's tough to overcome. But if you're talking about a free or incredibly cheap education, then that's also a case of like, well, yeah, I don't know, why not go for it. But let's hope those youngsters, Matt, making good money right out of high school are investing in a Roth IRA from the get go. That's something we would recommend they do, right? To build up, to start building wealth for their future. They really should be, with that kind of salary. Oh, yeah, and one of the best people in personal finance, Jonathan Clements, he used to write for the Wall Street Journal. He launched a website called the Humble Dollar, which is. Well, he's launched a new initiative to help kids from poor families start investing in a Roth early on. And so Jonathan, he was sadly diagnosed with a terminal form of lung cancer about a year ago. But he's still, and I've been really interested to watch kind of how he's handled this man. He's handled it so well in the way he's talked about it, but also the way that he's continued to pursue the things that he cares about even in the face of death coming soon. So he's pursuing that passion of personal finance education, despite those trials that he's facing. And proceeds from his new book, which is an anthology of his writings from the journal back in the day, it's going to fund a getting going on savings initiative. And this is being launched in Boston specifically. And it pairs education with free matching Roth contributions for some lucky teens. And they're also, what I love about this, they're going to do some tracking. They're going to see how this impacts those savers moving forward. Like incentivizing them to invest in a Roth so good in their teens when they otherwise likely would not have. Is this going to lead to lifelong savers and investors? I think it will. I'm really curious to see the results. But I love that Jonathan is like putting his money where his mouth is in this. And he's really not only investing in kids, but investing in some data that's going to, I think help us, help us all figure out what it looks like to help the next generation become better savers to investors.

[Matt]

Totally. And I think another lesson we can gain here is that we have more power as individuals to make change out in the world. Right. Like incentivize the type of behavior that you want to see. I don't want to make everything about like fitness and I don't know, I feel like we kept that reigned in some. But like this is a part of, and I've shared this, this is one of the reasons, this is part of the reason why I built up the home gym is because I wanted to empower my daughters. Like I wanted them to see that it is okay and in fact great to be a strong female. And I've incentivized them to like do pull ups and dips and stuff like that as well as the kids in the neighborhood, like when they came over, if, if they're able to, you know, to do that, they get, they get paid money like it's a party when the kids come over. We don't have to fully rely on the government to enact ways for future generations to save. Will you pay me?

[Joel]

Will you pay me for pull ups?

[Matt]

No, I'm sorry, Joel. So on an opposite note, there might be a new investment account created out of thin air and it's called this is so terrible but the money account for growth and advancement or of course, maga. Yeah, I will Say this sort of account has been proposed by both Republicans and Democrats in the past as a way to jumpstart savings for the next generation.

[Joel]

Yeah, they've got, like, baby bonds at different times. There's different methodologies behind this. But the whole goal is to say.

[Matt]

In effect, it's the same thing. Yeah. And as part of the new big, beautiful tax bill, it's meant to be a way for the government to put 1,000 bucks into the hands of kids across the country for their futures. So the way it's proposed, parents could then contribute more, up to $5,000 a year. And it seems like this account would be sort of like a hybrid of a 529 account and a 401k. So part education, part like, this is money you can live off of off in the future, but it would allow kids to use that money that's accrued to start a business. Or you could buy your first home once you turn 18. It's all up in the air right now. It's hard for us to take a. To give our opinion, to give a hot take. It could help peak investing interest, making a lifelong difference. Certainly it could legitimately help some kids have a bit of a nest egg when they graduate high school even, or certainly maybe by college. But the way the law is worded, this account might not be around for long.

[Joel]

That's one of the saddest parts to me.

[Matt]

So a lot of the proposed parts of the bill, there is a census of 2028, which. And off the mic, Joel, we've talked about why we think this is, but it's not a done deal. And the fact is, it's tough to get really excited about something when there is a clear expiration date. When it's set to sunset, it could.

[Joel]

Literally help three years worth of children and then go away.

[Matt]

It's weird.

[Joel]

And I don't if this is good policy, let's keep it around. And if it's not, then let's not do it at all.

[Matt]

It might be a way to try it out and to be able to silently just, okay, yeah, let's go ahead and allow that program to end because folks aren't excited about it. It could just be a political maneuver to be like, hey, you want this to continue? We got to pass another big, beautiful bill in another three, four years. But we will certainly make sure to keep folks posted as that bill comes together, solidifies, gets passed. Like, for instance, the child tax credit. Some of the different changes likely to.

[Joel]

Increase for the next few years as well. Yeah, Exactly. Lot to cover that will impact your personal finances as it solidifies. I'm sure we'll be talking about it in the weeks to come. All right, Matt, we've got more to get to though, on this episode, including gas stations that are gouging if you use a credit card. We'll talk about that and more right after this.

[Matt]

So, Joel, one of the major reasons we have a personal finance podcast is because it can be so difficult for folks to know what their money is doing or for them to know how it is that they're spending their dollars. They don't realize that they've got these financial blind spots like eating out or spending on food delivery.

[Joel]

They.

[Matt]

They don't know the full impact that online shopping is having on their ability to save and invest for retirement. Well, Monarch Money acts like your personal cfo. It gives you full visibility and control. It acts as a financial command center for all of your accounts, all of your investments, your personal goals that you.

[Joel]

Have for your life. I feel called out here, Matt, because I went into the back end of my Monarch Money account recently. The biggest surprise? How much money we spent at Chick Fil a duh duh duh. It's a problem that needs to be remedied, but at least I know that now. And and you get insights big and small when you partner with Monarch. Without a clear financial picture, your financial dreams truly can feel out of reach. And Monarch makes managing money simple, even for busy lives. By the way, it's the top recommended personal finance app by users and Experts with over 30,000 five star reviews.

[Matt]

You know it, man. Get control of your overall finances with Monarch Money. Use code [e-mail] in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarchmoney.com with code how to Money what.

[Joel]

Does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers. Will we have another bull market in 2025 or we're gonna get a bear market? What about inflation? Will it continue to calm or will higher prices remain sticky? Wouldn't it be cool if someone could invent a crystal ball that would give us some foresight?

[Matt]

Well, until then, Joel, over 41,000 businesses have future proofed their business with Netsuite by Oracle, the number one CL bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. With real time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data. When you're closing the books out in days, not weeks, you are spending less time looking backwards and more time on what is next. Our business is really small, but if we needed netsuite, we would be pumped about the time, the cost savings that it provides, and whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions of dollars, NetSuite helps you to respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities.

[Joel]

Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com howtomoney the guide is free to you at netsuite.com howTomoney that's netsuite.com howtomone so.

[Matt]

One aspect of owning your own business that some folks don't think about is setting aside money for taxes. It's a hassle if you forget about it, but you just gotta think ahead some. You gotta make those quarterly estimates, then it's no big deal. Similarly, Trust and Will makes creating your will easy and time efficient. Gets you thinking ahead, which is good. But then you can focus on other important tasks. Their website is incredibly easy to use and it's tough to beat knowing that I have the peace of mind, that my wishes are secure and that Kate and the kids are taken care of.

[Joel]

Yeah, I love knowing that Trust and Will is designed by attorneys, but it's kind of customized by me. Each will or trust is state specific, legally valid, and customized to your specific needs. Think about how difficult this necessary task used to be. Well, estate planning, it's easier than ever these days thanks to Trust and Will. It's so easy to get started and it's been used by hundreds of thousands of families and counting.

[Matt]

You know what, buddy? Uncomplicate the process with Trust and Will. Protect what matters most in [e-mail] HowToMoney and get 20% off. That's 20% [e-mail] HowtoMoney all right, buddy, we are back from the break. We've got more to get to. We're going to talk about plenty more like gold and real estate. But of course, now it is time for the ludicrous headline of the week. And you know what? I think you are a little more enraged about this headline than I am.

[Joel]

You want me to read it? You want me to do this?

[Matt]

Because I don't know if I can officially call it gouging, but.

[Joel]

You feel.

[Matt]

A little more in that direction. Well, let's go ahead.

[Joel]

Let's go ahead and go share the toy then we can discuss. So the headline comes from Yahoo. Finance and it reads, I can make it any number I want. Gas stations are charging customers a dollar more a gallon for using credit cards. And I. So I was frustrated by reading this. The gas stations are. I would be frustrated, charge that much if I rolled up to that gas station and I was like, wait a second, gas is 285A gallon with 385A gallon if I use my credit card. If I had rotten fruit in the car, Matt, I would throw it at the, at the gas, not the person, but at the gas station itself. Because that's assault, brother. Yeah, I know. Because that's messed up. That's messed up.

[Matt]

That was a Billy Madison line for all the oldies out there.

[Joel]

It's a classic movie. Classic movie. But then Kiplinger, alongside this article, documented the rise of gas stations charging outrageous fees for credit card usage at the gas pump too. And we don't.

[Matt]

It seems like it's becoming more of a widespread thing. It's not like just the Florida man or the Florida man gas station owner.

[Joel]

Right. Which apparently this is largely happening in Florida. And you and I, we've documented this on the show. We know that taking credit cards eats into the profit of a small business or a gas station operator, which is why many small businesses are saying there's a cash discount or there's a price you have to pay to use a credit card. And it's why more gas stations are charging 10 cents a gallon. But $1 a gallon, that to me seemed pretty ludicrous. And so I think this is just a heads up for you. If you're the kind of person tap fill up, you don't even realize, you're not even thinking about it. You're kind of thoughtlessly filling up at whatever gas station you come across. Just know that they might be charging you a significant amount extra for using your gas for using your credit card at the pump. And I just, I also kind of don't see the financial incentive for gas stations to charge this much more, far beyond the cost that they incur for taking credit cards. Because if I was a customer who found out that I got, you know, kind of the hoodwinked paying more than I thought I was going to for the gas I was putting in my car, I wouldn't come back there. So I just see this.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

Really stupid.

[Matt]

It does seem like a stupid. It's a short term. It seems like it's a short term. A short sighted, near sighted, like cash grab.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And I would not even go back to that gas station. I think even after they lower the prices. Because it's like, wait a minute, wait, was that an error? And maybe they're counting on folks thinking that. But the fact that at least in this, in the one report that the guy's like, no, I can, I can just make it whatever I want.

[Joel]

It's like, yeah, you can run yourself out of business, too.

[Matt]

And he might actually end up doing that. But the reason I don't think this is gouging, of course, is because are there other options? Do you have the ability to leave? And man, there are a ton of gas stations all over the place. Unless you happen to live somewhere or. Yeah, it is your only gas station option, right? Your town is an intersection like Radiator Springs. There's like one flashing red light. If that's the case, or maybe it's time for a town hall and there should be some social pressure. That station owner. So that's the difference between like 285 versus like 385 a gallon or something like that. But like, for instance, the. A 10 cent per gallon difference is typically worth it if you're using the right credit card, of course, Costco, Visa, it gives you 4% cash back and 5% with no fee at Costco, which is also a very superior form of gas. Joel, speaking of gas, there's another gas station that I've been to and I won't go back to you because the check engine light came on after we filled up at this Texas. I don't even want to say it because, like, you did. I'm sure it's a particular gas station owner who maybe isn't doing a great job or maybe it was just a bad batch of gas. But I'm like, I'm not going to risk my wonderfully old engine in our odyssey going on the fritz.

[Joel]

Yeah, I mean, we've talked about this before, too, but there is a type of gas called top tier gas. So you're not just saying top tier, baby. Oh, it seems like it's better at Costco, but it really is. It's really formulated better to keep your engine clean. And so, yeah, they sell this stuff at the AutoZone or whatever you can dump in your. Dump in your engine to try to clean your engine. Well, if you're filling up top tier gas with regularity, your engine components are going to be cleaner.

[Matt]

Maybe you don't need to even do that at all.

[Joel]

And by the way, it doesn't cost more to get top tier gas, but they're just certain stations that provide it. So make sure you know where you can get it.

[Matt]

So as we're talking about competition, there's actually an interesting white paper recently about competition at the gas pump and how it spurs price reductions. And maybe think of like, like when an Aldi moves into the neighborhood. Well, the prices at the other grocery stores, of course, are going to come down. Or maybe like when Southwest, when they start operating out of a certain airport, all the other airlines, they got to get a bit more competitive. Although maybe that's declined with Southwest dropping.

[Joel]

The frontier when they jump in like Delta's, like, all right, we got to lower our prices for a little while at least.

[Matt]

So the price per gallon at existing gas stations gets reduced immediately because now they got to work harder to get you to fill up there. The study said that the effects are immediate and persistent. Competition works, man, because prices create important signals to shoppers. If gas stations try to gouge you, make sure to peace out. You can vote with your dollars.

[Joel]

Prices are signals, and we react accordingly. When a price goes up somewhere, it makes my little antennas pick up.

[Matt]

Matt, we might get honorary economic degrees from some college out there who might.

[Joel]

Be willing, probably for some.

[Matt]

If you keep saying signals, Joel.

[Joel]

Some fly by night non accredited university.

[Matt]

Yeah, we'll see.

[Joel]

University of Phoenix. We're getting our honorary degrees from there. I don't know. Is that a good school?

[Matt]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Joel]

I'm not trying to cast this no.

[Matt]

Shade if they've got great programs over there. I don't know.

[Joel]

Well, the price of home Internet has been on the rise. CNET found that two thirds of folks are paying more for Internet than they were last year, and not just by a little bit. I was kind of shocked to see this by almost $200 more over the course of a year. And they also said that service has not improved with the. With their WI fi, which makes the cost increase even more frustrating. If I'm paying more because I'm getting something superior, I might be willing to look past the price increase. But if the service is degrading at the same time, I mean, that makes me frustrated. But it makes sense that this is happening because first off, home Internet, it's not a competitive industry. In many locations around the country, you're looking at a duopoly, which means your options are paltry, like one of two places you can go. And then price competitiveness, it's not really a thing. And it's still worth, you know, monitoring your bill for price increases and calling your service provider to ask about a reduction or I've talked about this before. You reaching out to them on Twitter because sometimes those are the people who are most empowered to help you get a better price as opposed to calling the 1, 800 number. Other options, we've talked about this in the past too, are to choose slower speeds or to stop renting equipment. Buying your own equipment can reduce that monthly cost.

[Matt]

Oh yeah.

[Joel]

But yeah, I think just important to note this, that slow creep up of your Internet price, you may like, yeah, I'm paying 70 bucks a month for Internet or something like that. That is probably more than you should be paying. And there are a lot of ways to reduce that bill. Just don't pay the increased bill price because that's what came in the mail and not do a lick about it because you really could save a couple hundred bucks a year pretty easily with maybe a couple hours of your time.

[Matt]

Heck yeah. So we're talking about paying for gas, paying for Internet. Let's talk about paying our favorite authors favorite for news because newsletter subscription costs are also adding up. And this is too. Like, it looked like for a minute there that all news was going to be ad supported. Everything was going to be free. Of course, that's when Substack came along. They kind of changed the game kind of shockingly, right?

[Joel]

I don't know that you or I could have predicted that.

[Matt]

No, that that was kind of moving. Moving in that direction. And like, we pay for a few of these subscriptions as well, some of which actually help us to stay informed in order to do the show here.

[Joel]

We had Noah Smith on not too long ago and that dude crushes on Subst.

[Matt]

No opinion. We are torn, though, on this new model because it's cool. I love that you can directly support independent creators. It's amazing that great writers out there can succeed without the backing of a major corporation or network. But then as an individual, you've also got to be careful not to overdo it. It's the boiling water and the frog, right? Like, you just kind of get used to paying a little bit more, a little bit more every single month. Especially when the average cost is just it's five bucks, it's ten bucks a month. You know, you don't think that's gonna make or break anything, but you multiply that times all the subscriptions, 6, 7, or 8, it really adds up.

[Joel]

Yeah. Monthly recurring subscriptions.

[Matt]

So just keep track of how many you have. And even speaking from experience, can you actually read them all? I would dare say that there is some waste. You know, I was talking about waste earlier. I don't like to throw things away. In effect, that's what's happening, right? Like if this is something that you're paying for and it's not actually something you're consuming, that's just a whole Joel, that's a rib eye that's in the fridge that you're like, oh, man, I didn't get to throw that on the grill. Which I know you've never done. Never.

[Joel]

Never would be.

[Matt]

But maybe you should start thinking about it that way. If there's something you haven't read, you're like, man, that's just wasted money. Maybe I should reevaluate it.

[Joel]

And that doesn't mean don't subscribe to substack newsletters that move the needle for you because like you said, we do. There are some that really. And some of which really do help us think about money incredibly well and translate that for the show for you as listeners. I love reading Noah Smith's articles and I, yeah, happy to pay creators that I think do great work. But I think for some folks it's adding up. And then they're like, I just got so many newsletters, my inbox is swamped. And the only newsletter that really matters, Matt, after all you and I both know, is the how to Money newsletter. Of course, that's why we try to keep it shorter and sweeter and free.

[Matt]

And freer.

[Joel]

Freer than all the other ones out there, too. Yeah, exactly. Howtomoney.com newsletter for that. Let's talk about investing. And as we know Americans, you know, when it comes to investing and being informed about the best ways to invest, maybe they're not as informed as you and I would love. That's part of the reason the show exists. But there's this new report from Gallup and it finds that similar to last year, people assume that real estate and gold are the top notch, absolute best investments that you could be partaking in.

[Matt]

So it's a sticky myth.

[Joel]

That's right, sticky myth. Because it perpetuates. People continue to think this. You and I, we talked about gold a little bit last week, so we won't berate that topic and keep going. At hasn't been a bad investment recently. We documented that over the past 20 years. It's actually been an awesome investment, but it doesn't hold a candle to investing in stocks over many decades. You and I were real estate investors, but we would still, I think, hesitate to tell folks that Real estate is the best long term investment. There's a lot of just nuance and specifics that come into play there. It can be if you buy at the right time and you know what you're doing right, or if you bought a property that was pretty inexpensive and you use leverage to buy it and you've seen what returns have done over the past 15 years, it's no wonder the recency bias inside of you would say real estate crushes stocks no matter what, even though stocks have done well too. But just to assume that gold and real estate are better than investing in the stock market, I don't think the numbers over an extended period of time bear that out.

[Matt]

I was sad to see that only 16% of folks who were surveyed thought that stocks were the best long term investment. It's worth mentioning that it is just so much easier to invest in the market. It can be worth working hard. Maybe it's worth you spending some time on the weekend putting in some sweat equity, putting in some elbow grease in order to increase your returns as you are forcing equity into that property. But many folks are going to find it hard to make the numbers work investing in real estate specifically right now. Plus it's just hard to save up enough liquid cash to get you in the game.

[Joel]

And there's also the part time job aspect of it.

[Matt]

Right.

[Joel]

You do have to do a lot of things.

[Matt]

Well, that's like this. Yeah, exactly like I'm not trying to shatter your landlord dreams if you've got them, but just simply dollar cost averaging into the market is still the best way for the vast majority of folks, despite what it is that they think. I think a lot of individuals latch onto the different anecdotes. They latch onto the outliers and they've heard stories of, oh, he made all this money in real estate.

[Joel]

And it feels more approachable too than like I built a business around AI and I sold it for billions or something.

[Matt]

Sure, it seems like something that they can do, but even still, like the average American, they've got a nine to five like. And then after that you've got a family who you want to see, or you've got friends, you've got interests, you've got other hobbies. And I think there are some things in life that are hard to do and it's worth putting in. Like you, you want to run a marathon that's going to take a whole lot of work. It's not an easy thing to do. You want to be able to snatch two times your body Weight, that's a hard thing to do. It's going to take a whole lot of grit to make this thing happen. And unfortunately I think people, they take that principle and they apply it to their investments. When truly when it comes to building wealth, it pays to be average. Like it pays to be able to literally dollar cost average into the market paying low fees and just doing that.

[Joel]

Over the course of decades.

[Matt]

Like you are going to be able to retire comfortably and with a whole lot of wealth by doing that. It doesn't have to be hard without.

[Joel]

Going as hard as you can. Right. Which typically when we're talking about real estate and buying physical properties, yeah, it could certainly work out to your advantage and you could be wealthier because of it. But there are so many factors at play just to knee jerk assume that real estate is the best investment. I think that's what kind of irks me about this study, that people just continue to assume that real estate and gold are better than stocks. And it's like that's just that doesn't bear out in the numbers and it doesn't bear out for a lot of people's personal experience. And yes, there are some people who massively crush at real estate, but it, yeah, it takes and we talk to some of those people and you and I are real estate investors ourselves. But just be careful before thinking that real estate is the golden ticket to building wealth because stocks can certainly be that for you too and they can be a much easier way to get there. Another tried and true way to get wealthy in the US is to build a business. And the Journal had an awesome profile of small to medium sized business owners across the country this week. And they called the folks who built those businesses the stealthy wealthy. And the people that they highlighted here make their living manufacturing flooring or having an auto dealership or they distribute beverages, stuff like that. Like these kind of run of the mill businesses you don't think about. And I think the gist of the article was that it doesn't have to be sexy to make money. Right. Makes me think of when you interview kids these days, Matt. So many of them say they want to be influencers. That's what they want to grow up to be.

[Matt]

It's the hot career.

[Joel]

Wouldn't it be nice to be Mr. Beast, right, to follow in his footsteps. And it's kind of like when you would have interviewed kids my age and me in particular, probably, oh, I want to be Michael Jordan. How cool would it be to play basketball every day and earn a living and earn millions of dollars. But I think it's important to highlight, to not neglect the boring ways of being able to make living and in fact, how successful those people can be. And in fact, boomers are selling their boring businesses these days. You can, you can buy their business as they're ready to retire.

[Matt]

It's true.

[Joel]

They, they might let it fold otherwise. I mean, this is a, this is the kind of thing. Where could a boring business be your path to success potentially? And I love reading that article just how. Yeah, I just think those things get neglected so often because they're not snazzy, they're not fancy, but I mean, depends on what you're going for with your life. And if you want to build wealth without and you don't want to be famous, this could be a great way to go.

[Matt]

Yeah. Honestly, going back to investing in the stock market, it's a similar thing. Take the boring path. It also comes with a whole lot less drama as well. Quick shout out to listener Bill. He just launched his comics website. Joel pizza from scratch.net we wanted to mention him. He. I don't know if there's any listener who. That we correspond with as much as Bill.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So we just wanted to give him a quick shout out. Bill, thank you for listening to the show.

[Joel]

Yeah, love, love that Bill's doing his comics. They're good. Worth checking out. We'll link to his site in the show notes. All right, Matt, that's gonna do it for this one. Until next time, best friends out.

[D]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health awareness month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive, licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers, and most Insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace. When you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE80 to match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.

[Matt]

In a world of economic uncertainty and workplace transformation, learn to lead by example from visionary C Suite executives like Shannon Schuyler of PwC and Will Pearson of iHeartMedia. The good teacher explains the great teacher inspired don't always leave your team to do the work. That's been the most important part of how to lead by example. Listen to leading by Example executives making an impact on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.