Friday Flight - Forever Mortgages, Ruining Reward Cards & Free Tax Filing Fail #1062

Summary

How to Money — Friday Flight: Forever Mortgages, Ruining Reward Cards & Free Tax Filing Fail

Podcast: How to Money (iHeartPodcasts)
Hosts: Joel & Matt
Date: November 14, 2025
Episode: #1062

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Episode Overview

Joel and Matt's latest Friday Flight tackles a week’s worth of hot personal finance headlines with their characteristic humor, skepticism, and practical advice. This episode covers the long-term impacts and pitfalls of the proposed 50-year mortgage, changes coming for credit card rewards thanks to a major Visa/Mastercard settlement, the government’s failed attempt at free tax filing, and more. Throughout, they advocate for transparency, long-term financial health, and keeping scams at bay—even if it means setting up a family code word à la Harry Potter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The 50-Year "Forever Mortgage" Proposal

(Starts ~03:33)

• Summary:
  The Trump administration has floated allowing Fannie and Freddie to back 50-year mortgages.
• Hosts’ Take:
  Matt is not a fan—comparing it to overly long car loans and calling it “a short-term fix to a long-term problem.” The reduced monthly payment is minor, while the lifetime interest cost and slow principal paydown are huge.
• Issues Highlighted:
  • Unlikely people will stay in a home for 50 years, so when you move, you will have paid off very little principal, risking being underwater or walking away with nothing.
  • Banks will likely charge higher rates due to increased risk.
  • Joel jokes, “Why stop at 50? Maybe 100-year mortgages. Why not?” (07:29)
• Memorable Quote:
  • Matt: “Making longer debt instruments is a short-term fix to a long-term problem that has the potential to create even more long term problems down the road.” (06:01)

2. Robinhood’s Entry into Mortgage Lending

(09:27)

• Summary:
  Robinhood is planning to offer mortgages, initially to Gold members.
• Hosts' Take:
  • Emphasize always getting at least three mortgage quotes.
  • A four-minute mortgage application may be “too easy”—some friction is healthy for big decisions.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • Matt: “There’s a part of me that says, you know what, I think the friction is actually a good thing in this case.” (10:18)
  • Joel: “Applying for a mortgage shouldn't be like buying sneakers online.” (11:19)

3. Holiday Gift Spending Concerns & Practical Advice

(11:30)

• Headline: 79% of Americans are concerned about affording holiday gifts this year.
• Hosts' Advice:
  • Start saving for holiday gifts in January via a sinking fund (e.g., $40/month).
  • Set realistic budgets and have honest conversations with friends/family to set expectations now.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • Joel: "Make a gift recipient list and attach a reasonable budget for what you’re willing to spend for each person." (12:13)
  • Matt: "Do it now, because the closer you get to Christmas, the harder it’s going to become." (13:52)

4. Food Insecurity & Community Support

(14:22)

• Trigger: Uptick in people using GoFundMe for food and SNAP delays.
• Hosts’ Take:
  • Promote looking out for neighbors, participating in food drives, and using/helping others find resources at findhelp.org.
  • Matt: “Making people aware of those resources can be a big help, too.” (16:48)

5. Congress & Obfuscating Investment Fees

(17:52)

• Headline: Legislation could allow certain funds (e.g., business development companies, BDCs) to hide fees.
• Hosts’ Take:
  • Even if this doesn't impact mainstream funds (yet), it’s a slippery slope.
  • Transparency in investing fees is critical.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • Joel: “Give me a slippery slope.” (19:25)
  • Matt: “Anytime Wall Street tries to obfuscate fees… that’s where we start getting a little bit nervous.” (19:04)

6. Vanguard’s Behavioral Nudges for Investors

(20:10)

• Summary:
  Vanguard will nudge investors to avoid mistakes like leaving rollover IRAs in cash.
• Take:
  • This “a la Betterment” approach can prevent loss of compounding.
  • 28% of rollover assets in 2015 sat in cash for seven years!
• Joel: “Seven years of staying in cash… those folks would miss out on a ton of returns.” (20:35)

7. Visa/Mastercard Settlement: The Changing Face of Rewards Cards

(30:13)

• Headline: Visa & Mastercard agree to settlement allowing businesses to decline high-fee (high-reward) credit cards.
• Implications:
  • Small businesses may now refuse the priciest reward cards, affecting consumers who chase points.
  • Could lead to price surcharges for premium cards—or just flat-out refusal.
• Hosts’ Take:
  • Good for merchants’ margins, potentially awkward for cashiers and customers.
  • Could signal the era of “bougie travel” cards losing some perks or acceptance.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • Joel: “Your super high-end fancy credit card, I’m not taking that one because it costs me more money.” (32:01)
  • Matt: “Why should I have to pay for your access to the [airport] lounge when I don’t have that card?” (33:22)

8. IRS’ Free Tax Filing Experiment – A Fail

(34:24)

• Headline: IRS’s “Direct File” free tax filing system is shuttered after minimal adoption and high costs.
• Hosts’ Advice:
  • Recommend alternatives like Cash App Taxes for genuinely free federal/state filings.
  • Warn about tax scams and impersonation calls as tax season nears.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • Joel: “If someone calls pretending that they are the IRS… it’s totally fake, it’s totally bogus.” (37:48)

9. New Age Scams: Family Code Words

(37:55)

• Context:
  Rise of phone/voice scams and deepfakes—especially “grandparent” scams.
• Advice:
  • Set up a unique family code word for emergencies.
  • Reference to “Mollywobbles” from Harry Potter as a code word example.
• Joel: “A family code word is a very small, easy thing to do that could prevent you from a lot of heartache or getting scammed out of a bunch of money.” (40:41)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On 50-Year Mortgages:
  • Matt (06:01): “Making longer debt instruments is a short-term fix to a long-term problem that has the potential to create even more long term problems down the road.”
• On Easy Mortgage Applications:
  • Matt (10:18): “There’s a part of me that says…the friction is actually a good thing in this case.”
• On Saving for Christmas:
  • Joel (12:13): "…attach a reasonable budget for what you’re willing to spend for each person you want to buy for."
• On Investment Fee Transparency:
  • Joel (19:25): “Give me a slippery slope.”
• On High-End Credit Card Fees:
  • Matt (33:22): “Why should I have to pay for your access to the lounge when I don’t have that card?”
• On Tax Scams:
  • Joel (37:44): “…it’s totally fake, it’s totally bogus. But it’s gonna hook a lot of people.”

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Important Timestamps

• 03:33 – 50-Year Mortgages: Pros and (mostly) Cons
• 09:27 – Robinhood Enters Mortgage Market
• 11:30 – Holiday Gift Guilt & Budgeting
• 14:22 – Food Insecurity & GoFundMe
• 17:52 – Congress, Investments & Hiding Fees
• 20:10 – Vanguard’s Behavioral Nudges
• 30:13 – Major Credit Card Settlement: Rewards Cards’ Future
• 34:24 – IRS Direct File Tax Program Fails
• 37:55 – Scams & Family Code Words

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Episode Tone & Highlights

• Language/Tone: Candid, witty, self-deprecating, and practical; supportive and community-oriented.
• Memorable Moments:
  • Joel’s joke about longer and longer mortgages.
  • Matt’s reluctance about mortgage applications being “too easy.”
  • Harry Potter reference for family code words.
  • Banter about beating the Stacking Benjamins in a charity challenge.

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Actionable Tips & Advice

• Be wary of “solutions” that promise cheaper payments (e.g., 50-year mortgages): always crunch the total cost and know your exit plan.
• Always shop for rates—especially for major products like mortgages.
• Build holiday gift funds year-round and communicate spending limits early.
• Lead or participate in community support, especially in tough times.
• When investing, demand transparency in fee disclosures.
• Consider which credit card rewards actually serve you—change may be coming!
• For tax filing, stick with genuinely free services and be vigilant for scams.
• Set up a family code word to defend against evolving scams—no one is too smart to be targeted.

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For more, visit How to Money.

Transcript

[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

I love entrepreneurship. I have been a small business owner for almost 20 years now, but it is tough to separate work from life. The business can be on your mind 24 7. So when you are hiring you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. And that hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network and get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place.

[Joel]

Here's how it works. Post your job for free or you can pay to promote share with your network. You can let your network know that you're hiring. You can even add a hiring frame to your profile picture and get two times more qualified candidates. So post your job for [e-mail] howtomoney that's LinkedIn.com howtomoney to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

[Narrator (Delta Air Lines Ad)]

Delta Air lines just turned 100 and is already shaping the next century of flight with the Delta Sustainable Skies Lab. Here they're building the future of flight. Think electric air taxis and next gen aircraft aiming to cut fuel burn significantly. And this isn't just future talk. Today their fleet of Boeing 737s have marine like finlets designed to reshape airflow that reduces dragging. The future of travel is more sustainable and Delta's leading the way. Learn [e-mail] Sustainability welcome to How to Money.

[Joel]

I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I'm Matt.

[Joel]

Today we're talking forever mortgages, ruining rewards cards and free tax filing fail.

[Matt]

Oh, we've got more than one tax filing fail to get to. I thought we were only going to talk about a single fail.

[Joel]

I think I added an S. Oh, I think it's just one. Oh, okay. Hey, there is a failure.

[Matt]

If there's something else you want to talk about later on, let's get to it.

[Joel]

Man, talk about personal failures.

[Matt]

What's a recent Personal fail. Do you have one?

[Joel]

So many.

[Matt]

Oh, man. Here's my.

[Joel]

I could bring them to light here on the podcast. That's my wife.

[Matt]

Wait, we need to let people know where. I was gonna. I was gonna mention how I rolled my ankle and I've been hobbling around. You saw me this morning, actually, instead of us joining runs like we have in the past, you saw me walking because I gotta rehab my stupid ankle after I rolled it earlier.

[Joel]

That's the worst, man. Cause those are the things that you just kinda.

[Matt]

I'm too fragile.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I'm like one of these, like little fragile. Like you gotta protect me. Gotta put some bubble wrap around me.

[Joel]

Dude. Put you in a cocoon. Yeah, we can do that.

[Matt]

I'm a high performance but highly fragile individual.

[Joel]

Like one of those formula in cars, you know, they're always getting banged up.

[Matt]

The line from Rob Lowe's character in. Was it Parks and Rec? Probably Zigama. Like one grain of sand in my engine. It was just when he was.

[Joel]

That sounds like Rob characters. Rob Lowe's character from that show. Okay, real quick, Matt. One thing we're not failing at is raising money for some of our favorite nonprofits. I just wanted to bring this up really quickly. You've probably heard the ads around this, but we, we talk about donor advised funds regularly here on the show. We're all about raising money for good causes. We have been with Daffy for years now and been talking about Daffy on the show for years now. And we're up against some other podcasts trying to raise money for some of our favorite nonprofits. We're in, I think, third place right now, which is admirable. We have a little bronze medal next to it.

[Matt]

Is there a chart or something that has Daffy.

[Joel]

If you go to the voices for good, daffy.org voicesforgood you can see.

[Matt]

Well, see, I'm not going to.

[Joel]

We're getting our butts kicked by the Stacking Benjamins people.

[Matt]

Oh, my God. I didn't realize that.

[Joel]

Those idiots.

[Matt]

So, folks, need to go to daffy.org how to money. See, I've been going. I've been checking out our page and making sure that thing still works. I didn't know there was a landing page that has all the. All the top scores. And you can see, I don't know, billboards.

[Joel]

I think maybe seven or eight podcasts total. So third place.

[Matt]

It's respectable, but still like, oh man.

[Joel]

We'Re way better than the Stacking Benjamins guys.

[Matt]

And most folks don't even Know who those guys are?

[Joel]

Yeah, right.

[Matt]

Forget them, they barely exist. You're listening to our show, but when you go to daffy.org howtomoney when you sign up and make your first contribution as well, you get a free $25 to be able to donate to your charity of choice. So donor advised funds. They're awesome. We've been huge fans of Daffy in particular for years and only recently have been able to partner with them. And it was like one of those slam dunk decisions where they reached out to us and we're like, would y' all want to do this?

[Joel]

Sort of.

[Matt]

We're like, oh, my gosh, yes. This is a match made in heaven for sure, as they say.

[Joel]

So please, yeah, join us in this endeavor and help us smack stacking Benjamin's in the face.

[Matt]

Yeah, I'm for it.

[Joel]

I know I'm using violent language only because I think they've been doing it on their podcast about us. And so. Yeah. Oh, yeah, they've been.

[Matt]

See, I don't read the comments.

[Joel]

I don't. Some of the images. They've been floating around.

[Matt]

Like, I did see that. Yeah, it's on.

[Joel]

It's tough. So we're just, I'm just getting back at him with some superb abuse here.

[Matt]

But let's keep moving, man. This is our Friday flight where we cover the most pertinent headlines from the past week, how they're going to impact your dollars. Let's talk about the. The new 50 year mortgage that was floated.

[Joel]

You're a big fan, right?

[Matt]

I'm not. I'll explain why. But the Trump administration is saying that they want Fannie and Freddie to be able to back the 50 year mortgages, making them likely to become accessible to more everyday Americans. Right. And here's the thing. It would make housing slightly more affordable. But similar to, we talked about this last week, the super long car loans. Similar to that, right. Where you lengthen these loans. This would have terrible downsize.

[Joel]

It lowers the payment, which is nice, but barely.

[Matt]

That's the thing. Like when you actually look at the numbers and crunch, crunch the numbers. It's not. It's like you look at the difference between a 15 year and a 30 year. There's a significant difference. There is not much difference between a 30 year and a 50 year.

[Joel]

You know what the difference is in how much overall interest you pay. It's significantly higher with the 50.

[Matt]

Absolutely. But you can't ignore the fact that you're extending this of this obligation for 20 more years. And it's Unlikely that you're going to even be in the home for 50 years, which makes it what, it's going to make it harder when it comes time to sell that home, especially in a stagnant market, because you're going to have paid off so little principal. So yes, housing is not terribly affordable right now, but making longer debt instruments is a, it's a short term fix to a long term problem that has the potential to, to create even more long term problems down the road. And I am not a fan.

[Joel]

From an individual and a societal perspective, I think the 50 year mortgage, and if 50 year mortgages, I can't imagine.

[Matt]

They'Re going to be all that popular to where it's going to create some sort of crash. I mean, I think we're thinking about the housing crisis, the Great Recession. I can't imagine it turning into something like that because it's not all that attractive. It's not a great solution.

[Joel]

I'm thinking maybe the 50 year mortgage proposal is too short sighted, Matt. Maybe we should go for like 100 year, maybe 200 year mortgages. Why not? Like why not? What is the limiting principle here?

[Matt]

Well, one of the reasons is because of the fact that banks would take on these longer obligations. And I know you're being facetious, of course, but the rates would also be higher because of the fact that it's a longer term. So the bank is signing up for a riskier investment here. And that's another downside. Right? Like it would be one thing, I mean I would consider it if the rates were lower.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Because then it's just like, okay, let's crunch the numbers here, see how this, how this pans out. But it's not the case.

[Joel]

The truth is if you have more of like an investor mindset or like an optimization sort of mindset, you could potentially take on a longer mortgage with the right terms if you're doing all the other right things. But I just think there's way too many Americans who would use the 50 year mortgage as hey, this is the only way I can actually get into the housing market and buy a house. You'll never own the home because it's a 50 year mortgage, but you can at least buy the home and be paying on it for, for a long period of time. So I just think that this would be a rough decision leading to a bunch of negative downstream impacts for a lot of individuals.

[Matt]

It just seems so shortsighted and some folks are talking about how much more in interest you are going to pay. It's Just absurd. Right. Like the total cost of the actual loan. But it's honestly, it's less about that because of the fact that people don't typically stay in their homes for 50 years. Right. And so it's, I think where folks are going to feel it more is when they're like, oh, you know what, this house isn't working out for us. Oh, we're going to move because daddy got a new job. Oh, mom's got this promotion and now we have to move out of state. Oh, the kid. Whatever. All the different reasons that you end up moving.

[Joel]

And if you've been in that house for seven years on a 15 year mortgage, hey, you paid off a lot of the principal balance or at least enough to where you come to the closing table and you're, you don't feel like you just got slapped in the face. Right. But if you're in a 50 year.

[Matt]

Mortgage, five to seven years on. Barely made a debt on a 50 year note. Yep.

[Joel]

Barely made. Especially.

[Matt]

Yeah. When things are slower yet, you're having to come to the table.

[Joel]

By the way, did you see that Robinhood is entering into the home mortgage market? They not 50 year mortgages because aren't a thing yet. Yeah.

[Matt]

And hopefully it won't become a thing. But we wanted to talk about it since it was making the headlines. Since it was truthed out earlier this week.

[Joel]

It got truth.

[Matt]

So stupid.

[Joel]

Okay, so, but Robinhood, it looks like they might get into, they're going to get into mortgages at least for their gold numbers initially. Robinhood might offer good rates in terms. Maybe not, I don't know. But I think this is just a good reminder. While it might be the blinking light in front of you. Oh yeah, I use Robinhood to invest. Now they're offering mortgages. That's where I should go. Maybe you should probably get a quote from them. But as we always say, getting at least three quotes every time when you are getting a mortgage is crucial because the numbers just show you can save a significant amount of money by comparing apples to apples with a bunch of different mortgage providers.

[Matt]

Totally. One of the things they touted was the mortgage application. It only takes four minutes, which I don't know how I feel about that either. Like there's a part of me that says, you know what, I think the friction is actually a good thing in this case. Like this is a very big decision. This doesn't need to be something that you buy paying for on it like on a pair of sneakers or something. This is a house that we're talking about. And so I don't know, there's part of me that thinks maybe it should be a little bit harder to purchase the home.

[Joel]

Not.

[Matt]

Not the fact that there are. There's so little supply out there. Not the fact that housing prices are crazy high. Like, those are the. Like, that is how it's so hard to get a house.

[Joel]

Right?

[Matt]

Saving up the money for a down payment, actually finding a place that you want to buy once you've saved up the money. Okay. So maybe it should be easier when. Once you've actually done those things. But something about it taking so little time feels a bit like. A bit knee jerk. Like you're sitting there on the couch watching Netflix and you're like, oh, let me just apply for a mortgage. And all of a sudden you've been told that, oh, yeah, you can afford a $700,000 home.

[Joel]

I think what you're getting. It would be like if you were applying to Harvard and you just took like a one minute selfie video and sent it in. Like, that would be. That would be a significant enough of an application.

[Matt]

Like, it doesn't seem thorough enough.

[Joel]

Right?

[Matt]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

It's a multiple choice, actually. It's not even a one minute selfie app.

[Joel]

Yeah, that's not enough. Got to go a little more hard. Harder than that. But there was a new survey, Matt, from U.S. news, and it found that 79% of Americans are concerned they're not going to have enough money for gifts this holiday season. I get it. Like, I see that. I see that stat. And it's shocking in some ways. But I also understand, like, rising prices, more economic uncertainty. It makes splurging on Christmas presents feel a bit more tenuous. Tariffs have been impacting prices at least to a certain degree, and we can't go back in time. But this is why, Matt, you and I were fans of starting a SYN fund in January. I believe we talked about it in January of this year. Hey, start setting aside money.

[Matt]

But we did.

[Joel]

Now, for the end of the year, 40 bucks a month would mean you'd have $440 saved at this point in the year. And then you would be able to buy most of the Christmas presents you wanted to buy guilt free. This would ensure that you're at least within the ballpark of what you're going to spend this year for presents. Our advice now, start doing that for 2026. But if you haven't done that and you feel concerned about being able to buy presents this year, make a gift recipient list and attach a reasonable budget for what you're willing to spend for each person you want to buy for. Then find ways to pare back and to save so that you have the cash as gift buying season starts. Because we're about to get into that season, Matt, where like every retailer is pulling for your dollars with like sales and advertisements and blinking lights. And I think it's, I just don't want to see how the money listers go into debt for it.

[Matt]

Yeah, we want you to have a plan and if you don't, the worst thing that happens and this, a lot of folks do this, right? You end up putting all those gifts on a credit card. You're saying to yourself, I'm not going to worry about this until the next year because next year is going to be better. Right? It might be better, might not be. And then you're dealing with it for the next six, seven months or so.

[Joel]

But I think it's also okay to say six, seven. You did. I did. You.

[Matt]

I did. So sorry for all the parents out.

[Joel]

There.

[Matt]

All the middle schoolers out there. What's up? It's also I wanted to say I think it's totally fine to dial back your spending and expectations specifically this is something that we're about to do with our extended family. But have the conversations with your family, with your friends, set the expectations.

[Joel]

Tell your father in law he's not getting the bow on top of the Lexus this year, man.

[Matt]

Yes, but do it now because the closer you get to Christmas, to the holidays, the harder it's going to become. This is an instance where I think honesty is the best policy because if you've got other financial goals or priorities that you might have, I think there's a good chance that other folks in your life also have goals that they want to achieve as well. And so it's just, I don't know, I think it could lead to a less stressful and potentially even more memorable holiday season for you and your family.

[Joel]

In another sign of kind of the economic times, the CEO of GoFundMe said recently that people are raising money on that platform to buy food. And he's basically made it sound like that's not something they've seen a lot of. There's been a, a substantial uptick in that gofundme typically used to raise crowdfund for like healthcare costs or to raise money for emergencies that are happening around the world. And this statement came, I think, Matt, before the snap. Benefits didn't go out at the beginning of the month, I think this was in like, mid October that he said this, which compounded the problem, obviously, for many families. So I think this is just. This was a good reminder to me, and I wanted to say this on the podcast publicly, too, to look out for people in your community, especially people who are struggling or you might see, oh, gosh, they look like they might be having a hard time. Like, you know, cash a gift card to your local grocery store could be a big help for people in time of need. This is a great time if you have the means to support people who live near you. Yeah. Through dry help.

[Matt]

Like, this is something I think that we've even struggled with with our family, is connecting some of the good that we try to put out in the world with the kids and their lessons.

[Joel]

Because, like, we're.

[Matt]

You've got kids and you're. You've got a full calendar. It's tough to make time to go serve, like in a soup kitchen or something like that. But even simply participating in a canned food drive, I think can be a good way, especially if you're just talking about it. Well. And explaining. Explaining to them why we're doing this, why we're. How it is that we're able to do something like that.

[Joel]

We're seeing churches step up to the plate, and as the SNAP benefits were cut, and so I saw a bunch of churches saying, all right, listen, we're going to step in to fill this gap here. And so, yeah, take part in that. If your church is doing something like that locally. There's also a website, findhelp.org if you need financial or food or health assistance. That's a great site to kind of find where you can get that nearby. Totally.

[Matt]

Which is an awesome database. I explored there a little bit this morning. It seems super up to date.

[Joel]

It's got.

[Matt]

And it's got thorough, too. It's really thorough.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Yeah. It's not just food. It's also like transportation, housing. You can get legal help as well, but. And it's got updated hours and certainly make sure to call before you drive across town or share it with somebody. I think what could be really helpful is if you're hearing this and you know someone is in need, doing. I don't know, even. I don't know, I almost said doing it for them and just like helping to connect the dots. But it's also good to empower individuals and say, hey, this is a great resource. It looks like making people aware of.

[Joel]

Those resources can be a big help, too. Exactly.

[Matt]

Rather than doing it for them. But I could see an argument for, for either. But yeah, the shutdown, the government shutdown I think strained a lot of people's budgets, especially when it comes to food. The, the shutdown also impacted thousands of flights at airports across the country, annoying and delaying travelers. I was looking at the, what is it, the misery map. There's a map that shows all the delays at the major airports and it is much less red this morning than it was last Friday this time. But even still, this could drive up fares even more than anticipated this holiday season. So be aw be flexible when you are booking travel. Hopefully government resuming means that those air traffic controllers and other workers are back to it. On a similar note, something else that Congress has been getting done pertains to our investments and this is one that they're not talking about of like, oh yeah, we finally got the government reopened. This is one that they're kind of sweeping it under the rug a little bit.

[Joel]

Let's talk about the Epstein files vote. But not so much public discussion about this.

[Matt]

Yeah. So this is and of course going to lean towards investments and fee disclosures specifically. This is something that Jason Zweig over at the Journal is doing. But he highlighted a bill that is currently in the works that is seeking to hide expense fees specifically on some more inside baseball type investments. But the end result could be that ETFs don't have to disclose certain fees, making it look to investors as though they're investing in something that's a bit more reasonable, something that might be perceived as low cost when it really isn't. But specifically, if you dig into it a little bit, this pertains to. And this isn't. This hasn't passed yet as far as I know this. I think the House passed it, but the Senate has not. But it pertains specifically to business development companies which are a bit more niche and I think they're private as well. So it's not like these are in your target date funds or like a Fidelity or Vanguard index fund or something like that. But I think so don't worry about it from that standpoint. But I think the reason that Jason was that he wrote about it was the fact that this is an instance to where Wall street has getting their toe in the door a little bit. And anytime they try that we see Wall street obfuscate fees like this where there's a lack of transparency, I think that's where we start getting a little bit nervous. Start where we start thinking, okay, well what's next what other funds that we are actually invested in where they might try to pull something off in those funds as well.

[Joel]

Give me a slippery slope.

[Matt]

It is. Exactly.

[Joel]

And alternative investments are just becoming more popular. And so you. We do run the risk more and more as individuals, individual investors, of having access to investments that are maybe a little more opaque when it comes to fees in inside of our 401k. Like that could be coming soon. So it is. Yeah, we'll definitely keep our eye on this. On a positive note for investors, though, Barron's reported that Vanguard is upping its use of behavioral technology to nudge investors to make better choices. So, for example, when investors initiate a rollover, one of the things that they often fail to do is to invest the money once it lands in that new account.

[Matt]

Classic.

[Joel]

It is such a classic human mistake. Unfortunately, I did the rollover thing, but I didn't complete it. The final step. And so their research found that 28% of rollover IRA assets in 2015 stayed in cash for at least seven years. Matt, that seven years was really good to investors.

[Matt]

2015.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

2022.

[Joel]

Oh my gosh.

[Matt]

Well, minus 2022. Yeah.

[Joel]

Seven years of staying in cash, compounding.

[Matt]

Returns for at least six of those years.

[Joel]

Yeah, those folks would miss out on a ton of returns. And so Vanguard is creating a slew of nudges for DIY investors to help them avoid mistakes like this and to make smart decisions in general. This is kind of a la Betterment. Betterment's done such a good job of this. We talked with Dan Egan on the show maybe like a year ago or something. But it's nice to see the low cost brokerages caring about helping their customers with that behavioral side too. So instead of just saying, like, do it yourself. Yeah, do it yourself. But maybe with a little nudge here or there. Knowing the kind of pain points we as investors typically run up against. I love that Vanguard is at least kind of getting into this space a little bit.

[Matt]

That's right, man. That's just one of many reasons why we are fans of Vanguard. But we've got more stories to get to, more personal finance stories, including. We're going to talk about some of the different bougie travel cards, how they could be beneficial. Maybe not so much. We'll get to that more right after this.

[Joel]

It sure seems like everything costs more these days. But that's not quite true because we've seen prices fall in certain categories like TVs and cell phone service. And it turns out 72% of Americans overestimate the cost of life insurance too. Policygenius makes finding and buying life insurance fast and surprisingly affordable. So if something happens to you, your loved ones have a financial safety net. With Policygenius, real users have gotten 20 year 2 million dollar policies for just $53 a month.

[Matt]

Yeah, and you might also overestimate how difficult it is to get life insurance in place. And you would be right. Because policygenius, they make it easy. They help you to compare your options by getting quotes from America's top insurers in just a few clicks to find the coverage that fits your needs and your budget. Policygenius simplifies the entire process by laying out all your options clearly. Coverage amounts, the prices, the terms. No guesswork, just clarity.

[Joel]

Secure your family's future with Policygenius. Head to Policygenius.com to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com as you make financial progress, you might be tempted to abandon habits that helped you make that progress in the first place. But guesstimating and a lack of awareness that can lead to leaving money on the table. That's where Monarch comes in. I dig Monarch because it helps me keep my finger on the pulse of every facet of my money. Spending, saving goals, net worth, it's all in one place and it helps keep me motivated to keep going. That's right.

[Matt]

Feel organized and confident in your finances with Monarch, an all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or on your phone. And right now, just for our listeners, Monarch is offering 50% off your first year with code [e-mail] I love that Monarch is built for people with busy lives. You know, if you've been putting off organizing your finances, Monarch is for you. And piggybacking off what you're saying, Joel, about the habits. Monarch, it does all the heavy lifting. You're able to link your accounts in minutes. You get smart categorization of your spending and real control over your money.

[Joel]

Do not let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use code [e-mail] in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code how to money. My how time flies 2025. It's gonna be gone before we know it. But before it's gone, there's a lot of life to live, right? Including a lot of kid activities, the holiday get togethers and a whole lot more. All this Activity though it can cause us to put off tasks on our to do list. But juggling a million plans shouldn't mean your future doesn't make your to do list. Trust and Will turns estate planning from a when I have time task into a quick, straightforward process ensuring you're protecting your family's future. Today go to trustandwill.com howtomoney to get 20% off their simple, secure and expert backed estate planning services. That's right.

[Matt]

It makes me think. You mentioned kids, Joel. I might be done having kids at this point, but my friends, my neighbors, they aren't. I've got family members who have a fresh baby at home as well. And it is such an amazing season of life. But those changes should also bring about a reassessment of whether or not you've got your estate planning ducks all in a row. Trust and Will makes it simple and straightforward. Their easy to use website is simple to navigate and plus all your information, all your documents, they are securely stored with bank level encryption.

[Joel]

Add some peace of mind to your future with Trust and will go to trustandwill.com howtomoney for 20% off, that's 20% [e-mail] howtomoney all right, we're back. Time for the ludicrous headline of the week. This one comes from CNN and it reads Trump floats $2,000 tariff rebate checks. What you need to know. Yeah.

[Matt]

Another something else that came from the White House.

[Joel]

Yeah. And the rebate checks Matt promised again. This is another truth truth social post.

[Matt]

Did we not learn our lesson from last time? This apparently not history. This actually does seem like. Seem like history. I was going to say history. It never repeats itself but it does rhyme. This is very much a rebate. This is true. Yeah, pretty much like, come on, $2,000 rebate check please.

[Joel]

It's also not like distant memory or like I think maybe like 50 years ago when we tried that thing.

[Matt]

How did something that my grandpa had to deal with.

[Joel]

Right. This is like oh, we all remember this from a few years ago.

[Matt]

Yeah. This just happened.

[Joel]

And so this, what did we see after everyone loads of inflation. Like we've been paying the price. That's part of it.

[Matt]

That's the thing.

[Joel]

I think there were other reasons that we experienced inflation, not just the stimmy checks. But that was certainly a part of it.

[Matt]

Was certainly a part of it. We haven't even come back from that yet either. Like we are still at the Fed's target 2%. We are still at 3% that is still significantly higher. Granted, it's not close to 10% where we were, so it's much, much better. But still, this is yet another poor policy proposal from the White House.

[Joel]

So this basically the proposal is 2000 bucks for everyone because, hey, we're raking in the money because of these tariffs. So let's share the wealth and put the money directly back into the people's pockets. One, the tariffs are legally dubious. Our arguments in front of the Supreme Court didn't seem to convince the majority of the justices. We'll see how that ruling comes out. Also, we haven't made enough money from tariffs to actually pull this off at this proposed amount. So, I mean, direct payments sound so exciting. People get thrilled when they hear that they're going to get a couple grand tossed in their bank account. But like we mentioned, this leads to.

[Matt]

Everyone's eyes are getting wide even hearing.

[Joel]

Us talk about it. It's like, yes, please, yeah, send money directly to my bank account. I'm in. But clearly it leads to other problems in the economy and it is a short term fix. Often it's a political solution too, to a problem that might be coming down the pike because it can increase your popularity in the short term. But then again, there's the price to pay. At the end of the day, I just want people to. They might be reading the headlines and seeing stories about this. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. I just think this is unlikely to pass. And even after that true social post came out, people in the administration have been trying to kind of walk it back.

[Matt]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Joel]

Yeah, I'm not sure about that. When they're asked about reading the tea leaves of what this means and when it's coming, they're kind of, they're being less committed. Committed to it.

[Matt]

It's not even worth getting into the actual details because of the like, I mean, so you mentioned the Supreme Court. There aren't many details possibly rul that the terrorists aren't even constitutional. And like, can you. I don't even know what's going to happen when it comes to paying back the businesses. Like, what does that then look like when it comes to individuals as well? If they kind of try to speedrun some of these rebate checks as before, the Supreme Court rules on it. I don't know. But this is just an instance of like robbing Peter to pay Paul sort of thing. But instead it's the government robbing you to then pay you, which is. It's so dumb.

[Joel]

I'm gonna tax you and then offer you a rebate check on the back end of it.

[Matt]

It's so silly. And at least with like, okay, so it makes me. You said tax, and it makes me think of, like, sales tax. But at least with that, we are paying something in order for, like, let's say the state to provide infrastructure needs that you can't take care of yourself. Why give me my own money back when instead you could just remove yourself from the equation at all? Remove layers of bureaucracy and give businesses some peace of mind to know what it is that they can count on in the future, which then leads to more investment and ultimately with innovation, lower prices that we all get to then enjoy.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Doesn't that just sound like a healthier way?

[Joel]

Sounds like a much better way to live.

[Matt]

All right, Joel and Matt, for 2028.

[Joel]

Yes, please. I would love to.

[Matt]

We have all the solutions, guys.

[Joel]

And, boy, what a joy to run for public office in this country, right? No, not fun.

[Matt]

Not cut out for it.

[Joel]

Well, and the Treasury Secretary, Terry, was even asked about it, and he was like, well, they're going to be income caps if this comes to pass. And then he also was even like, he was hedging his bets so much, he was like, but also, you know, maybe this. We've already kind of given the rebate checks in the form of the big beautiful bill that passed and lowering taxes for everybody. So maybe we'll count that as your rebate check. And so, yeah. So dumb when you hear the headline. Or it's easy to be like, great, before the end of the year, I'm getting this tariff rebate check. Probably not, though. Let's talk about credit cards. Matt, you want to talk about credit cards? Let's do it. Okay, so there was a new big Visa MasterCard settlement that happened this week. And the truth is, every small business knows accepting credit cards is a pain in the butt. I mean, it makes it easy in some ways because you don't have to deal with cash, but what you have to deal with is the exorbitant fees that Visa and MasterCard charge. And so this has been a case that's been working its way through the courts for a long time. Yeah, for 20 years.

[Matt]

I didn't realize that. I mean, it kind of makes sense that it would take them this long maybe to figure it out. I don't know. I was shocked to see it.

[Joel]

It seems like longer than necessary to kind of come to. And I think the last settlement that was agreed to the judge was like, yeah, this is ridiculous. Visa and MasterCard aren't giving anything up in this settlement. Go back to the drawing board. And so now this new settlement will lower Exchange rates by 0.1% over the course of a few years. I think the typical rate that a small business pays is something like 2.5 to 2.7% of the purchase amount. 0.1% also still seems like very little. It's not nothing, but it's not a lot. An even bigger change is that business owners, and this is where it's going to meet individual consumers and potentially help small business owners. You're going to be able to decide as a small business owner which credit card you take in, which ones you don't in the future. So the top notch rewards cards, the ones with hefty annual fees, Matt, that we've talked about on the show here, those cost merchants much more than like a run of the mill 2% cash back card. But under the previous agreement, hey, if you accept Visa cards, you have to accept all of them. Not just the basic ones that we don't charge as much for, but the super fancy ones too. And so now retailers are gonna be able to pick and choose and they're gonna be able to say, actually, your super high end fancy credit card, I'm not taking that one because it costs me more money. So I'm curious to see how this plays out. I know high end consumers, they love, they love those credit cards, but those credit cards might not be nearly as rewarding if they're accepted if you're retailers moving forward.

[Matt]

Yeah, I like that small businesses have a choice.

[Joel]

Right?

[Matt]

But I also don't see that being a great solution because, well, do you have to train your employees to say no to certain cards you might like, are they, are they going to be in the weeds enough to be like, okay, we're allowed to accept these, this card, this card and this card, but not this one and this one because it's so expensive, you know, for the.

[Joel]

Visa, the Visa, it's like a Visa signature card, right? Like a lot of the fancy ones, they might say no Visa signature cards allowed or something like that.

[Matt]

But even still, that's a lot of training when you're trying to get them to like serve their serve customers well. And it just slows things down. If you have to say, oh, actually we don't take that card, then you run the risk of alienating customers. And so I wonder, like, I've got to think that the different credit card process, like the stripe or clover or square, that they're able to input the charge amount that they're passing on to customers. Right?

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Because I think I see that being the most likely scenario where it's just like, oh, you want to use your Amex Platinum card? Sure, that's fine. It's going to be slightly more. And I'm sure those like folks aren't really thinking about it at the register. Right. They're just looking to pay and get out of there, move on with their life. And I think that's the, honestly the fairest way to pass along these costs to the people who are taking advantage of the travel perks. Why should I have to pay for your access to the Amex to the Chase Sapphire Sky Lounge when I don't have that card or if I'm not using that card. But we all have to pay for that. Due to higher prices across the board.

[Joel]

There'S a subsidiation happening of the higher.

[Matt]

End credit card users as opposed to passing it on directly to the customers who want to use that card. And I think that's totally fine. And I think most of them will gladly say, oh yeah sure I can, you know, that's just the price of admission.

[Joel]

Or, or they'll change their habits and say it's not worth paying 3% more every time I use this card or 3 1/2 percent.

[Matt]

I don't even go to the lounges anymore.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

They're overrun.

[Joel]

I guess I'm going to pick a new credit card. And so this, this is going to, it's how this shakes out is going to be fascinating to watch. And different, different retailers will take different tactics. I wonder if even inside of some of those processing machines it might say like if someone, you know, lays taps their Visa signature card, it just rejects it out of hand because the retailer says we don't take those fancy cards. So yeah, what this is going to look like will be fascinating. And we'll keep our eyes peeled and we'll keep talking about it.

[Matt]

All right, let's talk about that. Free tax filing fail. And that is this. The IRS's free direct file system. It's going away. This is something we talked about last year, pretty short lived experiment. And even when we talked about it, we mentioned to folks it's only going to be available to a certain select number of states. But its reach won't spread any further as the Treasury Department, they axed it and the focus instead is going to be on building up the free file system which has been out for a while. Unfortunately it's become a political issue I think. But that being said, I can't imagine many how the money listeners even used Direct File because not many taxpayers had at all. I think I saw it was less than 300,000 users. Actually gave it a shot last year even though it cost us like over $40 million or something.

[Joel]

Yeah, I mean that's like 0.01% of the country, right?

[Matt]

Yeah, nobody was using it. Much of the free tax filing systems out there are reserved for folks with lower incomes. We will continue to mention cash app taxes specifically for free federal and for free state filing for folks of all income levels. So just know that even though the IRS free direct file system bit the dust, there are still some great options out there for folks.

[Joel]

Well, the Direct file. Right. The free file still exists.

[Matt]

Sorry, what did I say?

[Joel]

Yeah, the direct file free file still around for people that's typically people who make less than 70 grand. I think it changes.

[Matt]

The direct file is also free, but the direct file system that's gone. Free file is still here.

[Joel]

And some of the big tax providers and you know, we're not too far away from tax season. I guess we start start hearing the ads pretty soon, seeing the ads for the big. The big players in the game. And they often offer free filing as well. But that's typically for super basic stuff and often doesn't include the state, state filing, which then you're like, you get to the end of it, you're like, okay, I guess I'm going to pay 30 bucks to file my state taxes.

[Matt]

Those are the gotchas.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

That's why some of those big names get all the complain. So I think they can be a good product for some folks. But you gotta know what you're getting into.

[Joel]

And cash app taxes don't play those games. So yep, that's why we typically mention them free federal and state. And even if you make millions of dollars, which congratulations if you do, ultimately the biggest disappointment is that I think taxes remain as complicated as they are. It's so frustrating to people. I'm not looking forward, Matt, to getting closer to tax season. I know most people dread it because it's annoying. There's a lot of documents you have to grab and I just don't think it has to be quite this complicated. As we get closer to taxis, I think it's important to tell people to watch out for tax scams. Calls abound right now claiming that there's this new federal program in place where the IRS can eliminate your debt. If you have debt with the irs, robocalls are still a real way that scammers are reaching out. But this program doesn't exist, of course, and the IRS doesn't call people on the phone. And so if you have outstanding tax debt, it's wise to get on a payment plan with the irs. But if someone calls pretending that they are the IRS or I swear, I don't know why I've been getting so many voicemails telling me that I qualify for this program.

[Matt]

And it's debt consolidation.

[Joel]

It's not.

[Matt]

It's not real back paid taxes that you owe. Yeah. Up to $25,000. Those.

[Joel]

Yes. It's so it's. It's totally fake. It's totally bogus. But it's gonna hook a lot of people. Yeah.

[Matt]

So on the, on the note of scams, the Journal had an article about the necessity of family code words these days. So not a scam from. From a business taxes standpoint, but from a interpersonal standpoint.

[Joel]

And like the scam where the grandparents scam. They call the grandparent and the teenagers in trouble. Yeah.

[Matt]

Well, so this is. We've talked about this on the show. This literally happened to me, my grandfather, this is years ago, but had received a call and it was something about me with a dui.

[Joel]

And he was like, that checks. That checks out.

[Matt]

Totally does not check.

[Joel]

A kid loves craft beer.

[Matt]

That is true. Definitely, definitely love craft beer. It's unfortunately sad that we.

[Joel]

Are you upset that your grandpa was like, just leave him behind the bars, like it's fine. Put him in prison.

[Matt]

He was even in his later years savvy enough to get one of my uncles on the line and he was able to help him work through it. But the whole, the whole thing, the whole story behind the code words is to avoid a situation where somebody is reaching out to you from an unknown number. But actually, man, it sounds like, oh, that sounds just like Joel. Honestly, dude, we probably are more susceptible to there being deep fakes of our voice. Yes, deep fakes. Because of how much audio of our voice.

[Joel]

They can make us say anything.

[Matt]

There's plenty of say.

[Joel]

Unfortunately, that's probably true in any language.

[Matt]

But that's why they're saying how to.

[Joel]

Bunny podcast is available in Spanish. That's right.

[Matt]

To identify or to choose a code word that your closest family members know about. It's not written down anywhere. It's something that you've talked about. Don't change it, but you just know that it's just some sort of oddball, random sort of code word that you latch onto, which the Fact that we have to do that just. That's just the world we're living in these days, which. What's so difficult about it is the fact that, like, if somebody's running at you with a baseball bat, you know that you should be on guard. Right. Like. Or that you should just straight up run. But if somebody texts you or calls you out of the blue, that's normally how your friends reach out to you and that's how you make plans, or that's how someone at work gets in touch with you. We don't normally have our defenses up in this way, but we need to. We need to be a little bit more wary of receiving especially unknown numbers.

[Joel]

And the code word is such an easy way to do it.

[Matt]

It's an easy way to do it.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

You know what it reminded me of when I read this article?

[Joel]

What would our code word be, by the way? Craft beer? Hazy. Hazy.

[Matt]

Billy Strings. It totally reminded me of the Arthur Weasley. I don't.

[Joel]

This is.

[Matt]

This is kind of a deep cut. It was when there's more people impersonating each other because of Polyjuice Potion. And he made Molly say their code word before.

[Joel]

That's right.

[Matt]

We're letting him in. Molly wobbles.

[Joel]

That was a good word.

[Matt]

Totally made me think about. Think about that. Which seems, again, so silly. But I think it could be a wise, prudent step to take.

[Joel]

It's not just the Forrest Gumps of this world who fall prey to scams like this, man. I think people are like, oh, it's a low IQ thing. I know smart, smart people who have, like, in, you know, in a moment of emotional turmoil, falling for a scam like this, or elderly in particular. Right. But. So a family code word is a very small, easy thing to do that could prevent you from a lot of heartache or getting scammed out of a bunch of money. Super practical. Yep. All right, that's going to do it. For this episode. We'll put links to some of the articles we mentioned up in the show notes on our website howtomoney.com and we hope you have just a lovely weekend.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

And hope to see you back here on Monday for a new Listener Questions episode. Matt. Until next time, best friends out.

[Matt]

Best friends.

[Joel]

Foreign.

[Matt]

Hey, it's Matt. Joel's also here and we are fired up because we are back in another charity challenge. If you've been with us for a while, you might remember the last time Joel and I, we went head to head. I may have come out on top.

[Joel]

Don't rub it in. All right, you did win, I'll give you that. But this year, we're teaming up in Daffy's Voices for Good Charity Challenge, competing with other podcasters to see who can raise the most for charity.

[Matt]

Yeah, for me, that means supporting GiveWell's top global health charities, like malaria nets and vitamin A supplements that save lives for just a few bucks.

[Joel]

And I've chosen fire, which defends free speech, undue medical debt to wipe out medical bills for families, and the Hope Effect, which is changing the way the world cares for orphans.

[Matt]

And the best part? We are matching donations so every dollar you give gets doubled. And if you donate by December 2nd, you'll be entered to win a trip for two to the 2026 iHeartradio Music Festival in Vegas. So head to Daffy.org voicesforgood findour campaign and donate. That's Daffy.org voicesforGood this is the story.

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Hi, I'm Frances Frey. And I'm Anne Morris. And we are the hosts of a new TED podcast called Fixable. We've helped leaders at some of the world's most competitive companies solve all kinds of problems. On our show, we'll pull back the curtain and give you the type of honest, unfiltered advice we usually reserve for top executives. Maybe you have a co worker with boundary issues, or you want to know how to inspire and motivate your team. No problem is too big or too small. Give us a call and we'll help you solve the problems you're stuck on. Find Fixable Wherever you listen to podcasts, this is an iHeart podcast.