Friday Flight - Forgotten 401k, Peaking Pessimism, & Loyalty is for Losers #1032

Summary

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How to Money – Friday Flight: Forgotten 401k, Peaking Pessimism, & Loyalty is for Losers (#1032)

Hosts: Joel and Matt
Podcast: How to Money (iHeartPodcasts)
Date: September 5, 2025

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Overview

In this "Friday Flight" episode, Joel and Matt tackle timely personal finance headlines and trends, mixing practical advice with their trademark banter and optimism. The main themes are: the challenge of forgotten 401(k)s, why investing feels uneasy even as markets hit highs, growing skepticism around the American dream and hard work, and why loyalty to consumer brands and banks often works against you. The hosts sprinkle in stories about backpacking, investing psychology, Gen Z entrepreneurship, and clever travel booking, always pushing listeners to think intentionally about their financial choices.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Simplicity, Minimalism, and Finding Happiness

(03:06–08:21)

• Joel’s backpacking trip in California prompts a reflection on how less is often more—stripping life to basics led to greater appreciation for community and amenities like “indoor plumbing.”
• Minimalism as a happiness hack: It’s not about fewer possessions for the sake of trend, but “how you spend your time and who you spend it with” (05:21–06:17).
• Personal Finance Takeaway: Cutting unnecessary expenses and seeking deeper meaning in how we use money is as important as what we buy.

Notable quote:

“Connection matters more than stuff.” — Joel (06:17)

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2. Market Highs, Investing Anxiety, and the Explosion of ETFs

(08:21–14:59)

• Stock market at record highs – The S&P 500 is “kind of frothy,” and even seasoned investors are slightly shifting allocations—but not panicking or abandoning stocks.
• Nick Magiulli (friend of the show): Even experts are making only “slight changes” to allocations because of life changes (buying a home), not just market timing.
  (09:36: “He’s only making a slight change... it’s because of his own goals are changing”)
• The illusion of choice: There are now “more ETFs than individual stocks,” causing analysis paralysis—Joel wishes investing “looked more like Aldi” with fewer choices.
  (13:39-14:21)
• Actionable Summary: Stick with low-cost, diversified index funds (VOO, FZROX), don’t stress over industry-specific ETFs.

Notable quotes:

“Stay the course, man.” — Matt (10:21)
“I wish that for individual investors it looked more like Aldi where you walk in and there’s just fewer choices.” — Joel (14:21)

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3. The Problem of Forgotten 401(k)s

(14:59–16:48)

• $1.7 trillion in “lost” 401(k) accounts — often forgotten at previous employers.
• Action Steps:
  • Check unclaimedretirementbenefits.com.
  • Companies like Capitalize can help you find and roll over old accounts.
• Key Point: Compounding works even when you’re not looking, but don’t forget to reclaim or consolidate your money!

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4. Peaking Pessimism: Has the American Dream Disappeared?

(17:16–23:48)

• Wall Street Journal survey: 70% of Americans now doubt hard work alone achieves the American dream—down from 75% believing the opposite in 2000.
• Reasons cited:
  • Inflation and stagnant wages
  • Housing market barriers
  • Social comparison fueled by social media
  • Generational shifts in aspiration (Gen Z “zigs while others zag”)
• Hosts’ Response: There are significant obstacles, but “pessimism can be this self-fulfilling prophecy." It's critical to "provide value," not just work hard, and define your own American dream.
• Gen Z spotlight: Young people are reconsidering expensive college and traditional paths, turning to trades, entrepreneurship, and redefining “the dream.”

Notable quotes:

“Connection matters more than stuff.” — Joel (06:17)
“Pessimism can be this self-fulfilling prophecy.” — Joel (18:50)
“The crucial way to make sure the American dream works for you is to avoid the major traps...zig while everyone else is zagging.” — Matt (21:20)

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5. Loyalty is for Losers: Why Sticking with One Brand Hurts Consumers

(26:55–33:46)

• Ludicrous Headline: “Customer loyalty is a sham” (Business Insider)
• Busted Myths:
  • Longterm loyalty (to insurers, internet, airlines, banks) is often penalized, not rewarded with better prices or perks.
  • Companies exploit inertia—consumers tend not to switch even to their own detriment.
• Real-Life Example: Joel helps a friend save $100/month by switching phone carriers.
• Actionable Tip: Regularly price shop essentials—insurance, cell plans, subscriptions. Use competitor offers for leverage.
• Even Amazon Prime is cracking down on account-sharing, forcing a reconsideration of subscriptions.

Notable quotes:

“We as customers might be getting the short end of the stick because often they don’t offer better perks because we’re loyal. In fact, they take advantage of our loyalty.” — Joel (28:06)
“That’s that inertia bias, which is totally natural...but it could be working against us.” — Matt (30:00)

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6. Smarter Holiday Travel Booking (& Google’s “AI” Flight Deals)

(35:30–40:39)

• Peak travel booking tip: Best airfare for major holidays often appears in September—use Google Flights/alerts.
• Flexibility saves: Adjust dates, jump on flight deals, and monitor prices post-booking for potential rebooking at lower rates.
• Google debuts a “Flight Deals” AI beta: Hosts are skeptical—it mostly repackages existing search results, but recommend exploring it if you’re open on destination.
• Travel ethos: First, “find out where it’s cheap to travel”; don’t fixate on one destination.
  (37:09: “Let the deal dictate the trip—it means you’ll spend less and maybe travel more.”)

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7. Quick Takes: Tariffs, Market Certainty, and Policy

(40:39–43:01)

• Tariff uncertainty: Recent courts question if the president can unilaterally impose tariffs; so far, economic impact is muted but could grow if tariffs persist.
• Big Picture Concern: Tariffs tend to raise prices and potentially keep interest rates higher if inflation ticks up.
• What’s Next: The Supreme Court may weigh in, introducing more uncertainty for businesses and markets.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Connection matters more than stuff.” — Joel (06:17)
• “Stay the course, man.” — Matt (10:21)
• “I wish that for individual investors it looked more like Aldi where you walk in and there’s just fewer choices.” — Joel (14:21)
• “Pessimism can be this self-fulfilling prophecy.” — Joel (18:50)
• “The crucial way to make sure the American dream works for you is to avoid the major traps... zig while everyone else is zagging.” — Matt (21:20)
• “We as customers might be getting the short end of the stick because...they take advantage of our loyalty.” — Joel (28:06)
• “That’s that inertia bias, which is totally natural...but it could be working against us.” — Matt (30:00)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Backpacking, Minimalism & Money Perspective: 03:06–08:21
• Stocks, Market Highs & ETF Overload: 08:21–14:59
• Forgotten 401(k)s: 14:59–16:48
• Peaking Pessimism/American Dream Doubts: 17:16–23:48
• Loyalty is for Losers (Headline/Discussion): 26:55–33:46
• Smarter Holiday Travel & Google Flight Deals: 35:30–40:39
• Tariff Uncertainty & Policy: 40:39–43:01

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Episode Takeaways

• Happiness is found in connection and experiences, not just possessions or status.
• Investment FOMO is real, but slow-and-steady index investing remains wise.
• Don’t let 401(k)s go unclaimed—consolidate and reclaim them.
• Define the American dream on your own terms—don’t let inflation or trends dictate your outlook.
• Don’t let ‘loyalty’ cost you money—always price shop!
• Book holiday travel soon, use flexibility and flight alerts for deals.
• Stay tuned to market and policy changes, but focus on what’s in your control.

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Engaging, clear, and brimming with timely financial wisdom, this episode is a must-listen for anyone striving to live and invest intentionally—even if that means occasionally questioning tradition or breaking with consumer loyalty.

Transcript

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[Joel]

Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I'm Matt.

[Joel]

And today we're talking forgotten 401s. Peaking pessimism and loyalty is for losers.

[Matt]

Happy Friday, everyone. You said peaking pessimism. Did you ever watch was it Peaky Blinders?

[Joel]

No, but I got old school. Cillian Murphy is the man.

[Matt]

Yeah, he's. He's such a great actor.

[Joel]

He really is.

[Matt]

And I think my respect for him went up. I read some interview on him like this a couple of years ago, and he is so out of. He's so disconnected from, like, pop culture and technology, like, I'm going to make this up. But, like, he hardly even, like, has an email account and he probably doesn't.

[Joel]

Even know that Travis and Taylor got engaged.

[Matt]

There's a chance he does. What a loser. He's.

[Joel]

He's.

[Matt]

He's very, very old school. I respect that. But he's also in a position of luxury or privilege to be able to disconnect.

[Joel]

But he's no Daniel Day Lewis, who is. Apparently has a new film coming out that his son directed.

[Matt]

Oh, I saw that. He came out.

[Joel]

But he came out.

[Matt]

He came out of retirement for that.

[Joel]

I'm totally going to.

[Matt]

You're gonna do it?

[Joel]

Of course I'm gonna watch that movie.

[Matt]

What's it about?

[Joel]

I don't even care. I don't know. I just know Daniel Day Lewis is the greatest actor of our time, so I will watch it.

[Matt]

I'd put him up there with Gillian Murphy.

[Joel]

Yeah, for sure.

[Matt]

But no. Okay, we're getting off track right out of the gate. This is our Friday flight where we're gonna talk about what movies were excited.

[Joel]

To see this week. One more little quick side tangent. Let me tell you, Matt, about my recent trip to the woods of California, Central California.

[Matt]

Share it with me.

[Joel]

Okay, so. And what I learned. There's a personal finance y lesson here, but really I just want to tell you about my trip.

[Matt]

There's a moral to the story, moral to the lesson.

[Joel]

So went with a bunch of friends, did a backpacking trip like nine mile hike in to this place called Thousand Island Lake and right underneath this beautiful mountain called Banner Peak in the eastern Sierras. It was incredible.

[Matt]

Were there actually a thousand islands within this lake?

[Joel]

A lot of islands. I didn't count them, but I was like, they probably like rounded up is my guess.

[Matt]

I would have said like 35.

[Joel]

Yeah, that was more than 35, but less than a thousand.

[Matt]

Nice.

[Joel]

But it just sounds nice. So yeah, I just had the best time completely checking out from reality email technology similar to Killian Murphy. Right. Like just not being engaged with my phone and screens and all that kind of stuff. That's half the glory I think of being out there in the wilderness. But I think it just also reminds me that I can do and actually enjoy my life more with less that when my life is simplified I can actually find more peace, more mental clarity. And so just I use it obviously. Like I'm not going to. I'm not gonna live out in the woods in a tent for the rest of my days.

[Matt]

Are you attempting to be a Luddite?

[Joel]

I'm no Ralph Waldo Emerson like. Or Henry David Thoreau.

[Matt]

Henry dav.

[Joel]

I guess it's Thoreau, not Emerson who lived in by Walden Pond in that like ramshackle get up that he had.

[Matt]

But he only did that for like a couple years. Yeah, I think like two or three years.

[Joel]

Yeah. I think really when you dig in you're like, eh. I don't even know that he committed as hard as he made it sound.

[Matt]

Like great job with the narrative but I don't think you actually fully commit. Right.

[Joel]

And neither shall I. Neither shall I. But I will take lessons away from this and just it's a good reminder to myself that I need a whole lot less to be happy and that even actually sometimes my happiness increases when I partake of fewer things.

[Matt]

Totally. I do think that that is a great general lesson that more folks probably need to hear.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Because we're just trying to like stuff our lives, especially with stuff. Because you're like sleeping on a sleeping pad in a tent. You're like, oh, I've got way more stuff than this at home.

[Joel]

Ye.

[Matt]

I think for a lot of folks do think that more possessions is the. Is going to be the secret to their happiness. But it's not to degrade or to demote the like it's the craft beer equivalent. It's why we have things that we love that truly do bring us joy and light us up. I'm curious too, if so much of you finding maybe some contentment had to do with the fact of not how you spent your money, right? Like the fact that you've got fewer possessions because that can take a weird left turn into like minimalism. Like even that in and of itself becomes this cultural aesthetic that can cost a lot of money as opposed to how you spent your time. Because you were talking about how you're like having some awesome conversations with these other dudes who are doing the same thing and there's nothing else there. You know, like it's just kind of.

[Joel]

What else are you gonna do?

[Matt]

You've like stripped down to your soul and so you're able to connect like at a deeper level. Which I think is the more countercultural thing to do in our current modern day lives that are so full of noise, responsibilities, different things like that.

[Joel]

I think there's a lot of truth to that. I think it's just, hey, connection matters more than stuff. But then the other thing is when you have to go to the bathroom in the hole that you dug in the ground with a trowel, you just really appreciate the toilet when you come back as opposed to just thinking toilets are normal. You're like, thank God for indoor plumbing because that isn't, that wasn't normal for most of human history.

[Matt]

That is a modern luxury that I will take. I'm not going to give up my, my toilet.

[Joel]

Same when you're like making food in a bag that you bought at rei, that kind of thing. You're like, when you get home and you have, my buddy's wife made us a pot roast when we came back and it was like, felt like the greatest thing I'd ever eaten in my life. Just because you're used to eating something so lowly, the camp meal. And so, yeah, I guess all that stuff really factors in to make me, it makes it an indelible experience. It's like marked on my person. But I also take something away from it into normal life and I just have a greater appreciation for the things that maybe I at times took for granted beforehand, maybe often took for granted, provides.

[Matt]

Yeah, I could see it providing some, some good perspective. Yeah, I bring that up because as I think, you know, you're, you're like, okay, there's going to be a personal finance element to this as well. But like, isn't that not what we are striving towards? Like anytime we talk about being smarter with your money and your spending and you're saving and you're investing, we're, we're trying to push folks towards financial freedom for some degree of financial independence. And what is that except for the ability to have control over your time and the ability for us to fill that time with things that matter more, which is more difficult to quantify because like you're having deeper conversations in community relationship. These aren't things that you can take a picture of or something that you can buy at the store that you can curate on your feed to where you're demonstrating to other people that oh, I've got my life, like I've got the good life. Right.

[Joel]

It's not a new car, it's not a screen grab of an account balance.

[Matt]

Exactly. Yeah, it's harder to quantify. But truly I think those are the kinds of things that aren't sexy because they're tougher to quantify, but they are the things that I think ultimately lead to greater levels of happiness.

[Joel]

Okay, let's go from existential talk to investing talk because how do we get to the place where we have greater levels of freedom?

[Matt]

This is how we get there.

[Joel]

Investing is part of it. Right, let's do it. Has anyone noticed, anyone out there noticed that the stock market is doing pretty good, doing quite well? I noticed all time highs on repeat, it feels like over the last year, many months. And you know, the tariffs, meddling with the Fed, they don't. Neither of those things seems to have had a negative impact on investor sentiment. It's everybody's just hitting the buy button. And this has led not only to, like I said, record highs, but record high valuations. And so The S&P 500 is trading at 3.25 times earnings, which is actually higher than it traded before the Dot com. Boom and bust happened, right? So I guess what that means, what that signifies is that the stock market is kind of frothy right now and some folks are starting to get nervous. Does this mean the stock market is overvalued and that a correction is imminent? I don't know. Potentially, it's anyone's guess. It's really, really hard to say. But it's interesting to see, Matt, even some of the people that you and I tend to look to as really intelligent folks writing in the investing space. For instance, friend of the show Nick Magiulli just wrote about how he is making slight changes to his investments because of where stocks are at from a valuation perspective. But I found it interesting. He's only making a slight change. And the reason he gave for making the slight change is not even because of high valuations. It's because of his own goals are changing.

[Matt]

There you go.

[Joel]

He's like, hey, I just got married. I'm planning on buying a home soon. That's why I'm actually going to change. And I'm still 80% invested in stocks, but I have other goals with some of these, some of these investment dollars. So I guess when it comes down to it, you and I would say, yeah, correction could happen. There's a decent chance a correction could happen. Right. That's a normal part of being an investor in the market. Sure is. Returns could be lower than average in the coming years. It wouldn't surprise me. But if you've got a long enough timeline, I think the advice is still to stay the course.

[Matt]

Yeah, stay the course, man. And I think this is a good reminder, too, that the market going up and to the right, though, we can look back at history and see that the market does that consistently. Like, if you look at an individual month or even a year, like I think about 2022 when the market was terrible, but you look at 23 and 24, it's just like, oh, those are really great years. When you zoom out even further, you see that the market does consistently go up and to the right, but it doesn't do it consecutively. There are years when, yeah, you're not going to do so well. So if you are used to consecutive years of seeing your returns in the 20% plus range, it's not always going to be that way.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So if you do want to continue to invest, though, like we would recommend and suggest that you do, which funds should you choose? There are now more ETFs than individual stocks these days. As Sam Rowe, he pointed out, Morningstar, they've got data and they find that you can invest in 4370 ETFs. But there's something. There's only like 4172 individual stocks, which is kind of crazy to think that, wait, how can there be more ETFs and there are actual companies that make up those ETFs.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I also appreciated there's. They were analogizing it though, to like, hey, there's only. How many notes are there? Like 12 notes, but there's like millions of songs out there.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Or there's like, there's only so many rest or so many ingredients that go into making a recipe. It's just about how you want to slice and dice it to basically suit your own tastes. Or like, we're just saying your own goals.

[Joel]

And ETFs are kind of like the basket of funds that you choose to invest in.

[Matt]

That is the recipe.

[Joel]

Yeah, yeah. And you can. Yeah, the number of baskets you can create. That is endless, really, when it comes to these ETFs configurations.

[Matt]

Totally. Yeah. And it also makes me think about investing in AI. Let's say that's something that you do want to. You're like, oh, yeah, maybe this is something I should do. Well, which of the three dozen specialty niche ETFs that specialize in AI should you even choose? Joel, are you investing in any AI funds?

[Joel]

No, I'm investing in companies that do AI, just by fact of investing in the S&P 500.

[Matt]

Thank you for making my point for me. Eight out of the 10 top companies that are in the S and P are basically tech slash AI companies.

[Joel]

Nvidia, Microsoft.

[Matt]

Well, Nvidia is like the most directly AI related, but like, yeah, Google, slash, alpha, meta. Meta. Yeah. Amazon and Apple, Tesla, these are all companies that are leaning heavy into the AI space. And honestly, it even concerns me of how much, like back in the day, I remember thinking, no, the future is all tech. And like, to that extent, a large portion of our portfolio was Vanguard's tech etf. But over the years I changed my tune and moved more to the S and P. I even feel that way now where I'm just like, man, the amount of weight that is going into the tech sector, even within the S and P, makes me a little bit uncomfortable.

[Joel]

But tech outperformance continue the way it has.

[Matt]

Yeah, exactly. So all that to say I'm not specifically looking at something that is AI or tech focused because the S and P has a whole lot of that. And instead I'm just sticking with the general S and P and might even consider kind of like dialing back even to a little bit more of just the total stock market.

[Joel]

I think too what this reveals is that there's just a lot of choice out there for an investor, individual investors trying to figure out how to proceed when it comes to investing. And I think that abundance of choice can actually be difficult. Right. Like you see this laundry list of ETFs and you're like, well, which sector should I invest in? And inside of that, like which brand name ETF should I be going with? And like it can feel really overwhelming. And it's like, I think ETFs I would love for ETFs I love that companies can launch whatever ones that they want. But in a lot of ways I wish that for individual investors it looked more like Aldi where you walk in and you're like, there's just fewer choices.

[Matt]

They've eliminated that paradox of choice.

[Joel]

And so you just have to create, figure out which ETFs make the most sense for you. And that can be difficult. So we suggest low cost, well diversified ETFs. And so Matt, the one that you're fond of have been talking about for years, Voo. I love Voorhees. That's a great one to consider. Fzrox from Fidelity. Fzrox is the symbol, is another great fund to consider, especially for people in the wealth building phase of their lives. But just know that there's like a billion choices out there essentially for you when it comes to investing, but only a few that really make a lot of sense or that really are even all that necessary.

[Matt]

Totally another bad investing move. Well, that might be forgetting about your account altogether. USA Today, they report that there is something like $1.7 trillion that's lost currently in 401k accounts. The average lost 401k balance is over $50,000. Which you might be thinking, how is that possible? It's like misplacing your car or something like that.

[Joel]

It's not just like the, the, the change in the couch cushions. This is this far surpasses.

[Matt]

Yeah, but that being said, you know, it could have been an account from years ago that was worth maybe a lot less at that point in time. Certainly it's grown over time due to compounding.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

It's basically been working in the background on autopilot. And I would say if there is even a small chance that you meet that you might be one of these folks, head over tounclaimed retirement benefits dot com. And you can see if essentially you're like, oh, wait a minute, I forget. Yeah, yeah, there's. There's this. I had a 401k going on that I wasn't even contributing to. My employer was taking care of it for me. We just want to make sure that you are entitled to all of your money that might be floating out there.

[Joel]

And given how much we're talking about, like it's. What did you say, it's like a quarter or something of all 401k money is in these?

[Matt]

I didn't say that, but I think that was in that article as well.

[Joel]

It's crazy to think it's that much. That is also a non insignificant amount.

[Matt]

Yeah, it's also an estimate. So it's not like they have quantified every single one of these dollars. These are estimates. But even still, the fact that some of these estimates are that high makes me, it makes me cringe a little bit. I feel bad for all those folks on one hand. On the other hand, I'm also a little. I'm actually kind of okay with it because it tells me that these folks have been treating their retirement dollars like they should. Like, you basically want to almost have forgotten about it, but not forgotten about it so much that you actually forget that it exists.

[Joel]

Yeah. You still want access to those dollars in your retirement years. So Capitalize actually is a company that we've talked about who can help you do rollovers for free. Well, they can also help you find lost retirement accounts. We'll link to that in the show notes. But yeah, if you're like, I think I had a 401k back in the day, I'm not sure, given the incredible numbers, the overall amount of outstanding $401 that people might have forgotten about, it's worth doing a search. All right, man, let's talk about, let's.

[Matt]

Talk about hard work.

[Joel]

Most Americans these days don't seem to think that hard work pays off in the ways that it used to. This is according to a new Wall Street Journal survey. So pessimistic beliefs, they continue to increase as something like 70% of Americans. They just don't believe, or maybe never believed that working harder is going to help you achieve the American dream. So in the year 2000, the opposite was true. It was like 75 plus percent of people thought that, yeah, if I work harder, I can achieve the American dream. Even as recently as 2005, it was a vast majority of people saying, yeah, I also believe that. But for some reason the numbers have like become diametrically opposed and a lot fewer people believe that their life can be better than the one that their parents lived. I don't know about you, but it's kind of hard for me to pinpoint a specific reason for this lack of hope. I think maybe higher prices is part of that inflation. People feel like everything costs more and maybe my raises haven't been keeping up with that. And so that does feel demoralizing, which I get especially when you're talking about home prices and younger generations who are saying I would like to own a home feels like it's never going to happen given the current climate and then just general worry about the future. That seems to be kind of maybe at the crux of. I totally agree of how people are feeling. And I think we have to point out that it is true that the economy has pain points for a lot of people. It's not like the economy is humming along, working incredibly for everyone. We talk about record highs. Well, people, there's a significant number of Americans who don't have any money invested in the stock market. So they're not feeling the benefits, they're not feeling that massive net worth increase that people who have been consistently investing have been seeing. It is true also that hard work alone doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get meaningful results and build a whole lot of wealth. But I think it's crucial to find a way to provide value in order to increase your compensation, not just to work your butt off. It's a little bit of both. But I also think that pessimism can be this like self fulfilling prophecy. And despite headwinds, it's still really possible to live a great life and to build wealth in this country. So I think seeing these numbers just kind of, I don't know, made me sad.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think this is an instance too where if it bleeds, it leads. Right. Like this is the negative headline. You know, it made the rounds. I'm sure a lot of folks have maybe heard folks refer to it. But like, and I hate to be like the old man yelling at the sky, but like I feel like this.

[Joel]

You love it.

[Matt]

I feel like this could be an instance too where we're just spending too much time online. Yeah, like we, like I don't want to make everything about smartphones, but we're sitting there on our devices. We're too online. We're being endlessly entertained. We're endlessly scrolling and even the very act of scrolling without having as we're getting sucked into the algorithm like that is just this discipline destroyer as opposed to getting out there kicking butt, trying to find a way to.

[Joel]

And it feels make your life better. It feels like everyone else has a better life than us when we're. Yes, you know, because guess what's a.

[Matt]

Part of the algorithm?

[Joel]

Guess what? That's exactly how I feel when I scroll. Yeah. And that's why I try to avoid it, because I know what happens to me when I scroll. I think other people are living their best life and I'm over here living an average one.

[Matt]

Yep. You don't want to get sucked into that, man. As opposed to the folks who are actually out there taking risks. And I do, I do think like a part of the uncertainty, especially that we've experienced over the past five years has led to like, when there's uncertainty, you're just not sure what's what the future holds. And so I think you are less likely to take risks. But this reminds me of an article I saw about Gen Z entrepreneurs. Because they're the ones out there who are taking those risks, like working their butts off. And specifically they're also trying to avoid the office jobs that come with just a 2% annual raise in search of something that's more energizing, something that's a bit more lucrative. High school grads, they are less interested in paying for that $200,000 degree and instead are hopping into the workforce early. Whether it's this article documented folks becoming real estate agents, which is a bit tougher to do right now, opting for specialized like the trade work, basically like blue collar work, which man, I totally appreciate this. You know, the enterprising nature that Gen Z seems to be reviving. And I think the crucial way to make sure the American dream works for you is to avoid the major traps. Right. Like you want to zig while everyone else is zagging. And if the college and you know, buying a home route, if those paths are going to be too expensive, if it's going to tie you down, well, that's when you have the opportunity to create a different dream that doesn't involve those things. And that is the reason why I still think that the US is still the best place for you to essentially blaze your own trail.

[Joel]

It's better than the vast majority of the rest of the world. And I think maybe two people assume when we're talking about the American dream that it has to look like this stock American lifestyle. No, I think the American Dream, it.

[Matt]

Can look like whatever you want it to look like. That's what we're saying here.

[Joel]

That's what's cool about it. Yeah. It doesn't have to look like the four bedroom, three bathroom house with the white picket fence. I think for some people that is their dream and maybe it's harder to achieve that now than it has been in the past. But for other people, it's living that van life. Right. And traveling around the country, which has in many ways become easier than ever before to pull off. And I guess I wonder if that's maybe some of the pessimism too revealed in the survey is like, well, I can't live that classic suburban 1960s sort of lifestyle that my parents lived. But maybe your American dream can look better, just different, because I do think that people's hopes and aspirations have actually changed. What people want out of life has changed.

[Matt]

But you're saying basically, do you even want that?

[Joel]

Right. Yeah. And I love to see, because I think Gen Z, there's a lot of intergenerational picking. Okay. Boomer. That kind of sort of thing. But I love that Gen Z seems to be taking this tact where they're kind of grabbing life by the reins.

[Matt]

And they're saying by the horns.

[Joel]

Yeah. I think a lot of people are like, but I was told to get the college degree and it was really expensive. And now I find myself in a place where it's harder for me to achieve the American dream. And I get that. And that's a difficult position to be in. But I also, I love that Gen Z is kind of starting to question those things out of the gate and saying, no, no, no, no. I think what I want is this. And I don't necessarily need the college education to get there. And so not that college is bad or that everyone should avoid it, but I just.

[Matt]

It's worth asking the question, though.

[Joel]

It's worth asking the question and it's worth thinking a Gen Z seems to be. To be doing that, to kind of be responding to the incentives that are out there and the costs that are being placed on us. And if we can, like you said, Zig when other people are zagging, I think we can live that American dream, even if it doesn't look like the classic idealized version.

[Matt]

Totally, Joel. We've got more to get to. We're going to talk about when might be the best time to book some upcoming travel that you've got planned for later this year. We'll get to that, plus more right after this.

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[Matt]

So we've talked pretty extensively about how we took some time off this summer, took a small break to enjoy time with family and get away. But it wasn't a knee jerk decision. We planned ahead, we prepared for it in order for things to continue running smoothly. Things can change fast, especially during these busy summer months. But with the right plan, you can ensure that you and the people you care for most are prepared for anything. And that's where trust and will comes in. They make estate planning simple and secure so you can confidently create a will, designate a power of attorney, secure your digital assets and more. Visit trustandwill.com how2money to get 20% off their simple, secure and expert backed estate.

[Joel]

Planning services yeah Matt, we actually sadly just experienced a death of a family member. It was. It was shocking for all of us. And also just a reminder of how important estate planning is. Trust and will is easy to use and simple to navigate. Plus all your information and documents are securely stored with bank level encryption. Each will or trust is state specific, legally valid and customized to your needs.

[Matt]

That's right, we can't control everything, but trust and will can help you to take control of protecting your family's future. Visit trustandwill.com howtomoney and get 20% off. That's 20% [e-mail] howtomoney Every business has an ambition.

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[Joel]

All right, Matt, we're back. It's time for the ludicrous headline of the week. This one comes from Business Insider, and it says, customer loyalty is a sham.

[Matt]

True. Words of never been spoken.

[Joel]

It's interesting.

[Matt]

I do think that it's ludicrous in a good way.

[Joel]

There are some ways, Right. In which being loyal can benefit you in many aspects of life.

[Matt]

Talking about, like, the punch cards, you just want, like, your free ice cream.

[Joel]

Yeah. Although my local ice cream shop changed ownership and they don't do the punch cards anymore. What? Which one?

[Matt]

The one where they mix it all together. Yeah. Dude, no.

[Joel]

Gone. Gone are the punch card days.

[Matt]

Oh, no way. I've got, like, three of those. Well, the problem is that they would always just initial it. It seems very unofficial.

[Joel]

It's super smudgy. And.

[Matt]

Yeah. As opposed to having some, like, custom bespoke puncher with, you know.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

It's hard. It's a lot harder to forge that. I'm very sad to hear that they're doing. Doing away with the customer loyalty card.

[Joel]

You weren't cheating the loyalty card system?

[Matt]

No. Okay. No. I'm an upstanding, honest citizen and consumer.

[Joel]

I know that to be true. Okay. But so. So loyalty.

[Matt]

Sorry to hear about that.

[Joel]

Can result in free ice cream. At least it used to be able to.

[Matt]

It's the only upside.

[Joel]

Right. But companies, as it turns out, love loyal customers.

[Matt]

Oh, yeah, they love it.

[Joel]

They want your loyalty.

[Matt]

But we're on the customer side. Right.

[Joel]

But us, we as customers, might be getting the short end of the stick because often they don't offer better perks. Because we're loyal. In fact, they take advantage of our loyalty. So the longer you continue doing business with a particular retailer or a particular store or particular business, the more you're likely to pay. So if you're too loyal to your insurance company, for instance, your premiums are probably going to be higher than they otherwise should be.

[Matt]

Classic example.

[Joel]

Sometimes people are like, man, I got dropped by my insurance company. I've been with them for 25 years. They don't care about you because they don't care that you were loyal. You cared about your loyalty. They didn't. Yeah, if you only fly one airline, for instance, Matt, I've met many of these people who are like, hey, help me find a deal. But I only fly this airline, and I only fly on these specific dates. And I'm like, yeah, that's really hard to find a deal that way, then. And if you only fly one airline, you're regularly paying too much for tickets. You're beholden to their loyalty program, even though it's not as beneficial as shopping around and saving money. If you stick with one of the big banks, your savings rate suffers. Right. There's an endless litany of examples I can give here where loyalty is actually costing you. And that's what this article was pointing out. Shopping around and switching it can feel like a chore, but 20 bucks a month or whatever it is, it really can add up. Matt, I was just talking with a friend. He was telling me how much he was spending on cell phone service, and I was like, well, I'm with US Mobile, just letting you know, here's how much I pay. And he was like, oh, man, I just ran the numbers. I thought I was getting, like, free iPhones and stuff from my carrier, but even. Even when I factor in buying my own iPhone, I'm gonna save more than $100 a month for my family by switching cell phone service. And so he switched immediately. He did it, got rid of the loyalty to the company he'd been with for a long time and went with one of the new upstarts.

[Matt]

Consumer success story.

[Joel]

Consumer success story. Those are the kind of things I think most of us don't question, though. We're just kind of like, we keep doing the thing we've been doing, and we prize that loyalty. The companies that we do business with don't.

[Matt]

That's. That maintaining the status quo, that's that inertia bias, which is totally natural, right? Like, I think it's totally natural to want to see consistency in life, because sort of like we were just talking about entrepreneurship. When you can look ahead and you. It feels like you have a rough idea of what the future holds, then that allows you to make other pivots, make other measured risks that tend to lead to, let's say, entrepreneurship or something that you otherwise would not have partaken in. But when everything feels like it's up in the air, I think sometimes you can be I don't know, you're just a little less prone to take some of those risks. And so we seek that consistency in lots of areas in life. And it's not just a chore.

[Joel]

Even if it's working against us?

[Matt]

Yeah, even. Well, that's the thing. I think some folks are used to kind of like that slow, like letting of blood as opposed to like ripping the band aid off and making the switch. But I'm glad that your buddy was able to do that. Another company that you might not want to be loyal to is your home Internet provider. And you can realize similar savings there because back in the day there used to be basically zero options. You just had the local cable company. But that has changed at least a little bit, largely thanks to the different cell phone companies out there who are offering the 5G at home service. This isn't something that I've personally paid for or taken advantage of, Joel, but it does mean that there are more opportunities to save.

[Joel]

And it's just like another challenger in the mix, right?

[Matt]

More competition, the open market, it's a good thing. And some of the different companies out there are offering multi year price locks, which has got me looking twice. So T Mobile specifically, They've got this $35 a month plan for five years and normally I would, I don't know, I'm not the one to take the bait, but then I saw the five years part and I thought, wait a minute, that's pretty good. They got me looking at the coverage map. I'm just like, okay, what is it? All right, I got the ultra. I'm in the ultra zone, baby. That's what you need. Downside, I think you might have to go with the T mobile service in order to fully take advantage of that low offering.

[Joel]

Yeah, so what, 50 bucks?

[Matt]

Otherwise, maybe I can't remember off the top of my head, but it's worth considering because I think if you can do a little bit of exploring, you got to shop around, you can potentially save a ton of money by making the switch. And I think there's a chance too, the fact that that's even being offered, if you are in a zone that has that as an option, you might be able to even reach out to your current cable provider, let them know what the current competition with their advertising and you can even potentially get your current rate lowered without having to go through all the rigamarole of switching providers.

[Joel]

100%. Yeah, just like, hey, I'm finding a better deal elsewhere, I'm thinking about it and see what they Say, yeah, just, I guess don't be too loyal or too price insensitive. Exactly. On your hands.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Joel]

There are savings to be had. Matt, are you and I, are we too loyal to Amazon Prime? That's.

[Matt]

I don't think so.

[Joel]

No. Okay, I do. I watch.

[Matt]

I try to always price shop and price compare. I will say so specifically. Walmart is one of the other big, big heavy hitters and they're, they're. The app just isn't as good if you're searching for something. It'll pull up like 5,000 different results. And I feel like I'm buying some sort of bootleg shampoo from China or something like that. As opposed to what feels like slight, a slightly more walled garden where it's a bit more curated.

[Joel]

I think that little extra lead in your hair follicles is actually good for you. Oh, yeah. Can you tell? Yeah, it's adding some more volume. So I just wasn't.

[Matt]

That Dinner X. Dinner X back in the day was like a dandruff shampoo. And it used to. They're like, you can, you can tell it's working because you can feel it tingle. But then like, it had like coal tar. Oh, really? Or something crazy like that.

[Joel]

Sounds terrible.

[Matt]

Yeah, I'm like, how's there not some sort of class action lawsuit again?

[Joel]

I don't remember. I don't remember the shampoo at all.

[Matt]

But I remember it because I remember my dad using it. I remember as like a six year old trying it one time and I'm.

[Joel]

Just like, it burns, dad. Don't make me use that shampoo anymore. Well, sorry, I asked a question about Amazon prime because you and I have done the household sharing. Yeah, we have, because there was no rule against it. Kind of like Netflix used to allow you to share passwords. In fact, in many ways they encouraged it. Some of the other streaming services did the same. Now that's not in vogue. They're cracking down on password sharing. Amazon is similarly cracking down on the household sharing policy. Now you can only do the sharing if that person actually lives under your roof. So, yeah, I guess you and I now need to consider our relationship to Amazon and whether or not we want to pony up for our individual prime memberships every year instead of splitting the cost.

[Matt]

Yep, that's true. All right. I had a quick conversation with my wife and she's pretty convinced that we're not going to be getting rid of it. I will say Amazon is really smart because they're dangling the carrot and they're saying, hey, what is it 15 bucks that's being offered for up until the end of the year for your first year?

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And so for the folks out there who haven't been, been directly paying, it's just smart. They're just as opposed to, I don't know, it's an easier transition to turning.

[Joel]

The screws real tight.

[Matt]

Exactly. So in that part, I think Amazon's being pretty smart, Joel. It feels like the cool weather is here. You hear folks talking about the pumpkin spice latte, even though the heat waves across the US feel like they've only recently subsided. Oh man, we're not gonna.

[Joel]

It's been hot.

[Matt]

Yeah, it has been.

[Joel]

And. But finally a little bit of cool weather. And I don't drink pumpkin spice, Matt. I avoid it like the plague.

[Matt]

I certainly do as well. But we're gonna jump, gonna jump right over.

[Joel]

I wear that as a personal badge of honor.

[Matt]

Cozy season. Go straight to winter. We're gonna talk about the holidays here, which feels maybe a little bit inappropriate, but of course it's a smart thing to do. Not just when it comes to like Christmas gifts where we want folks saving all year round. Right.

[Joel]

Like start checking on that sinking fund.

[Matt]

That's something you also, when it comes to traveling around the holidays, that's what we're talking about here. Because if you are planning on flying, let's say to see family or to see friends, it might be time to start looking at prices. It might be time to start setting the airfare alerts because the top notch booking days to pay the lowest possible price just around the bend, potentially even mid to late September. Of course, try to have flexible dates. That's what's going to allow you to, to save the most. But just keep that in mind. It's going to be here before you know it. You can head over to Google flights, use that to your advantage as well. Monitor prices even after you book, if maybe it's something you've already knocked out, but if you see prices drop, you might be able to cancel, get a refund, rebook that same flight or that same travel for even less money.

[Joel]

That's what I'm doing with a hotel room that I'm going to be for New York next month.

[Matt]

Oh, nice.

[Joel]

For a quick little trip because they.

[Matt]

Dropped the prices on that joint.

[Joel]

Well, prices went up and I had not booked yet and so I'm super bummed. So I'm pivoted to a cheaper hotel for the time being. But I'm still get, still got my eyes on the hotel that I would like to stay at. It's like right out of a Wes Anderson movie and I want to stay back there.

[Matt]

Oh, is it you talking about the.

[Joel]

Ship one, the boat one, the maritime.

[Matt]

That'S got the round windows?

[Joel]

Yes, it's awesome. It's like, I love that hotel so much, but it's quite expensive. And so if prices drop, sheesh, talk about loyalty. If prices drop, I'm not being loyal. If prices drop, I'll go back. If prices don't drop, I'm switching the other.

[Matt]

Not going to do it.

[Joel]

Right. But the same is true for booking your flights. In particular, be ready to pounce when you see a deal. And Google's so great on the Google Flights features to tell you kind of, hey, this is normal pricing for right now or this is a pretty good deal. You should jump on it. I love how they kind of help you in that decision making process. Google Flights also recently announced an AI based deal feature that they just launched. It's called Flight Deals and it's in beta right now, beta testing. And this is, I think great for folks who aren't sure where they want to go, but they want to get a pretty sweet deal. They just want to travel somewhere awesome and they don't want to pay a ton of money to do it. And Matt, this goes right in line with our ethos for travel. It's like, hey, don't figure out where you want to travel, figure out where it's cheap to travel to and then say, yeah, I guess that looks pretty cool. Let me look into it and book a place that's inexpensive and allow that to kind of guide you when it comes to your destinations that you pick. It means you're going to spend a whole lot less on travel and maybe even be able to travel, travel more or you know, increase your, your budget in other parts of your travel. Maybe it's the craft breweries you're going to. Right. You can spend more on the craft beer if you spend less on the flight. So you can go to google.com flights deals and man, I was just there checking it out, seeing what kind of good deals they had. And Greece round trip for less than 500 bucks in October. Greece wasn't on my radar. I don't think I can put another trip into my calendar this year. This is not going to happen for me.

[Matt]

Not gonna swing it.

[Joel]

No. But I was like, get your mind percolating, you know, and it's like, that's a great deal to a really cool place. Not gonna happen for me right now. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna use this service and see if it can help me find. So that was over future.

[Matt]

That was. So that was the existing. Did you say that was at the. The deals. The deals page?

[Joel]

Whatever. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Google.com flights deals.

[Matt]

Nice. I will say. So I explored the new beta AI Google flight deals page or whatever. What was the. The gymnast Kyla Maroney or whatever, though? I'm not impressed. The silver medalist.

[Joel]

You weren't impressed?

[Matt]

I was not impressed because it just seemed like it was essentially the Google Explore feature. Right.

[Joel]

Where you're in a different way and that's where display.

[Matt]

And that's the part of me that is so. I don't want to say disappointed, but I feel like there's just so much hype around AI and someone like Google saying, oh, come check out. They're touting their AI Travel Explorer thing, but it's basically taking the explorer results and they're repackaging it. It feels less like magic and more like a formatting change.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Essentially you're not wrong, which I get because I think that's the part of it that we are drawn to. And this, I don't know, little AI right in here. Like we like stories, like we like other people. And so it's fun to talk to something or somebody else that feels like another person. And so when AI is just like, yeah, let me look into that for you. Oh, this is what I found. What do you think? Would you like me to do this? You feel like you're connecting to somebody else.

[Joel]

Feels like you have a digital butler. Exactly.

[Matt]

And it's great. But I don't know, I don't want to get folks too excited about this. And of course it's in beta, so I wouldn't go over there and expect to find more amazing deals than what you could previously find.

[Joel]

But who knows?

[Matt]

Maybe it'll get better.

[Joel]

Maybe it'll be superior to Explorer, and.

[Matt]

If so, then I am all for it. But it's just a small critique within the AI landscape not to take it back to AI.

[Joel]

It does sometimes feel like it's AI everything and you're just like, all right.

[Matt]

In some ways I do think it'll be a little ho hum. Yeah, it'll be great. But this is an instance where it just. Just feels like a repackaging of something that they're already doing.

[Joel]

All right, Matt, let's touch briefly on tariffs before we depart. We have to get political. We've tried to not talk about it. We had to talk about it for a while and then we were like, everyone's talking about it, let's not talk about it too much. But the legality of top down tariff mandates from the White House, it's kind of been questionable from the beginning. Like, does the president have the authority to just Willy Nilly say 50% tariffs on India, 10% tariffs, 15% tariffs on the EU or is that really the job of Congress to establish tariff policy? And so a federal appeals court has ruled that President Trump does not have the sole authority to tariff nations as he wishes. And so tariffs are actually going to remain in place for the time being. The Trump administration is hoping that the Supreme Court will weigh in soon. And when you look at kind of all the talk about tariffs, well, it feels like the bark has been worse than the bite. They've yet to have this major impact on U.S. consumers. We haven't seen price increases to the point that many people predicted. I don't think that means that they're not going to cause real waves if they allowed to remain intact. So much depends on how big the tariffs are, especially the longer they remain. Some of that front loading that companies were doing goes away. And we will start to see some of those price increases. But, but whether or not the tariffs are allowed to remain, that remains to be seen. And we will, you and I will keep following, keep talking about it here on the show.

[Matt]

Totally. Yeah. This is an instance to where there does not seem to be some sort of like golden thread that runs through any sort of current administration ideology.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

Like, it just feels more like grasping at straws because what's also, what else is in the headlines? Well, there's a lot of things in the headlines, but there's so much pressure to get the Fed to lower rates. But if these tariffs actually stick around, prices are likely to go up. Inflation kicks in, which means that there's a higher likelihood of rates staying high. So it's almost as if the tariffs going away. It seems like this might be the best thing for our actual economy because things would go, things would blow up because we're guaranteeing that prices aren't going to be unduly raised because of these additional tariff taxes.

[Joel]

If all the tariff threats and realities went away tomorrow, just think what would happen in the stock market.

[Matt]

It would be pretty crazy.

[Joel]

Yeah, it would be. And there'd be a lot more certainty for businesses and for consumers. But we will, we'll see where, where things land with all this.

[Matt]

Yes, we will.

[Joel]

Court rulings. All right, Matt, that's going to do it. For this episode, we should give a newsletter shout out to a couple of folks who referred their friends to the how to money newsletter and you can sign up newsletter. But Peter W. And D. Wilts, we appreciate you letting other folks know about the newsletter. Thank you so much.

[Matt]

That's right. And that's gonna be it. We hope everyone has a fantastic weekend. We'll see you back here on Monday, buddy. Until next time, best friends out. Best friends. Did it occur to you that he charmed you in any way? Yes, it did. But he was a charming man. It looks like the ingredients of a really grand spy story. Because this ties together the Cold War with the new one. I often ask myself now, did I know the true Jan at all? Listen to hot agent of chaos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Announcer]

Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the powerful stories I'll be mining on our upcoming 12th season of Family Secrets. We continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. Listen to Family Secrets, Season 12 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Honey German, and I'm back with season two of my podcast, Gracias. Come again. We got you. When it comes to the latest in music and entertainment, with interviews with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition.

[Advertiser]

No, I didn't audition.

[Joel]

I haven't auditioned in, like, over 25 years.

[Podcast Announcer]

Oh, wow. That's a real G talk right there. Oh, yeah, we'll talk about all that's viral and trending with a little bit of chisme and a ho, whole lot of laughs. And of course, the great bibras you've come to expect. Listen to the new season of Gracias. Come again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an iHeart podcast.