Friday Flight - Frustrating Fees, Degree Doubts, & Upper-Middle Class Ascendancy #1128

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Money – Friday Flight - Frustrating Fees, Degree Doubts, & Upper-Middle Class Ascendancy (#1128)

Date: April 17, 2026
Hosts: Joel & Matt
Main Theme:
Joel and Matt break down recent stories and insights on frustrating fees (from airlines to HOAs), the ever-increasing doubt about the ROI of advanced degrees, and an encouraging data-driven discussion about the rise of the upper-middle class in America. The episode maintains its signature blend of practical advice, listener engagement, and an optimistic-yet-cautious tone about navigating personal finance in a changing world.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Engagement & Staying the Investment Course

• Listener Feedback ([03:01])

  • The value of listeners offering real solutions, e.g., a dryer vent fix suggestion.
  • Investing anxiety: One listener in the Facebook group was considering radically changing their investment strategy based on market volatility.
  • Response from the community:

    “A lot of hold the line... Stay the course.”
    – Joel ([03:45])

  • Lesson: The importance of long-term investing discipline amid market highs and lows.

• Quote ([03:52])

  “This is why we talk about investing over the long term.”
  – Joel

---

2. Frustrating Fees: Airlines & HOAs

Airline Bag Fees Rising ([05:41–09:50])

• Multiple airlines have hiked bag fees. The hosts discuss how these fees are "stickier" and less obvious than fare increases or fuel surcharges, often going up without much notice.
• Tips for listeners:
  • Pack lighter, use compatibly-sized bags, or airline credit cards to avoid fees.
  • Domino effect: If one airline raises fees, others are likely to follow.
• The shifting landscape:

  “Three of the big six airlines have raised bag fees... They think you’ll notice less.”
  – Joel ([07:36])

• Matt worries about the survival of ultra-low-cost carriers like Spirit acting as downward price pressure for the entire market.

Rising HOA Fees ([09:54–13:39])

• HOA fees are up 26% since 2019; for some, they're now higher than their mortgage.

• Hosts discuss the need for due diligence:

  • Ask for HOA reserve fund balances, financials, maintenance needs.
  • Poorly managed HOAs can be “a nightmare.”

• Personal stories:

  • Joel discusses his sister’s search for a condo post-Great Recession and a friend’s experience running for HOA president out of necessity.

• Quote ([12:42])

  “If the HOA is poorly run, poorly managed, doesn’t have the funds on hand, you could be entering into a nightmare.”
  – Joel

---

3. Homeownership Trends: Older Homes & Maintenance ([13:39–15:53])

• The average age of a U.S. home is now 44 years and rising costs for maintenance outpace inflation.
• Advice:
  • Budget at least 2% of home value yearly for maintenance—especially for older, character-rich homes (that “character costs money”).
• Modern building codes and home age affect cost unpredictability.

---

4. Tax Refunds: Use & Psychology ([16:20–20:48])

• 2026 tax refunds are up 11% on average.
• LendingTree reports most Americans are putting refunds toward necessities (not splurges) due to inflation and rising costs.
  • 34% pay for rent, groceries, or bills.
• Discussion: Is a refund an “interest-free loan to the government,” or simply a fiscal tool?
• Quote ([18:13])

  “Half of survey participants say they rely on their tax refund to get by… there’s a part of me that’s sad about that.”
  – Matt

---

5. Finding Free Money & Scam Awareness ([20:48–24:56])

• Reminder to check unclaimed.org and missingmoney.com for unclaimed property or loose ends from closed accounts.

• Spike in fraudulent “unclaimed money” phone calls—FTC says don’t fall for scams promising large amounts and demanding payment or personal info.

• Record $15.9 billion lost to scams in 2025, especially imposter scams (IRS, banks, phony platforms), and AI makes these more convincing.

• Younger generations (Gen Z, Millennials) increasingly targeted due to higher online and device usage.

• Advice: Never click, call, or reply to unsolicited notices—visit official websites directly.

---

6. Does a Graduate Degree Pay Off?

Spotlight: Ludicrous Headline of the Week
([28:03–33:36])

• Major new study:
  • MBAs, clinical psychology, and other grad degrees often offer less ROI than expected after factoring in costs, lost wages, and higher debt.
  • Doctors/lawyers still usually benefit significantly.
  • Clinical psych degrees: “Often negative ROI. You should pursue it only for the love of the game.”
    – Matt ([29:19])
• Consider the school and network as factors—not just tuition.
• Hosts emphasize the importance of evaluating cost, duration, and alternative ways to reduce expenses (scholarships, free tuition opportunities in 45 states).

---

7. Rise of the Upper-Middle Class ([33:36–37:11])

• Contrary to media focus on hardship, AEI data reports 31% of Americans are now upper-middle class (up from 10% in the 1970s).
  • Income threshold: $133k–$400k/year.
• Key drivers: marriage/cohabitation (resource pooling), higher education.
• Inequality still an issue, but overall, fewer Americans are classified as "poor."
• Emphasis on the importance of highlighting positive economic stories.
• Quote ([34:50])

  “It’s just incredible to see data that reflects the reality of growing income, of people who are building massive amounts of wealth..."
  – Matt

---

8. Inflation’s Impact on Gig Workers ([37:11–41:20])

• Inflation (esp. higher gas prices) hits gig workers—like Uber/Lyft drivers—hard; they often can't control pricing.
• Their decision-making has become razor-thin on ride acceptance vs. cost.
• Some drivers are “side hustling their side hustle,” e.g., pitching life insurance to passengers!
  • "Maybe don't purchase it in the backseat of the Uber." ([41:20])
• Advice: If you’re a gig worker, consider costs, possible EV switch, and be wary of stretching into multi-hustle schemes that may not pan out.

---

9. Show Moments & Quotes

• Listener Wisdom:

  “There is somebody smarter than us... with a solution for your problem.”
  – Matt ([03:17])

• On Home Ownership:

  "Character costs money."
  – Matt ([15:11])

• On Scam Prevention:

  “Log in to the website directly... Use two-factor authentication.”
  – Joel ([24:56])

• On Running For HOA President:

  "He literally had to run for president...it became a part-time job and headache."
  – Joel ([11:59])

• On Upper-Middle Class Growth:

  “The rising tide is lifting the average of all boats.”
  – Joel ([34:50])

---

Timestamps for Major Topics

• [01:30] Episode theme and Friday Flight intro
• [03:01] Listener solutions & investment anxiety
• [05:41] Airline fee inflation & tips
• [09:54] HOA fees, due diligence, and horror stories
• [13:39] Old homes and the cost of upkeep
• [16:20] Tax refund psychology & practical usage
• [20:48] Unclaimed property reminders & scams
• [24:56] Record scam losses and digital safety
• [28:03] Do graduate degrees pay off? – Ludicrous Headline
• [33:36] Upper-middle class ascendancy in the US
• [37:11] Gig workers hurt by inflation, rideshare realities

---

Notable & Memorable Moments

• Matt and Joel recount their recent local 5k—both winning medals in their “old man age group.” ([42:45])
• Playful banter about 1950s child safety and homeownership headaches (“Have you seen kids’ car seats from the 50s? Death trap guillotines!” – Matt [16:08])

---

Conclusion

This episode is packed with actionable advice, broad perspective, and thoughtful encouragement:

• Prioritize long-term investing
• Scrutinize recurring fees—flight, HOA, or otherwise
• Think critically about the ROI of expensive education
• Beware of scams and monitor your financial “blind spots”
• Celebrate and reflect on positive economic trends, while understanding that not everyone benefits equally

[Full show notes and referenced articles are available at howtomoney.com.]

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

let's say you've always wanted to take a spontaneous trip to the Caribbean. Well, here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money, like treating yourself to something special or

[Joel]

spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one man? So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 19 million customers [e-mail] not an empowered client, paid or sponsored. Welcome to how to money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I'm Matt.

[Joel]

Today we're talking frustrating fees, degree doubts and upper middle class ascendancy.

[Matt]

That's right, buddy. This is our Friday flight and we're going to talk the personal finance stories that we want to talk about. That's right, because it's going to help you, our listener. All the how to Money ers out there. Now, what do we will take all the besties out there.

[Joel]

Yeah, and I'll say we will take your if you've got a story you think we should talk about, we'll take your emails. Like send us 100 listeners. Send stuff in all the time. Like, oh you should.

[Matt]

Stuff we talk about is stuff that folks not half is. That's not true.

[Joel]

Yeah, no, most of it is stuff that we have found and we're interested in. But if you have something you think would be of value or you're like, I just want to hear Matt and Joel talk about that. Let us know.

[Matt]

Yeah. So I wanted to quickly share, I guess, Monday's episode, I talked about diverting my dryer vent. And speaking of hearing back from listeners, a listener reached out and said, hey, there's actually a product that solves that problem. And it's this conversion kit. And it forces the dryer exhaust into like a bucket sort of thing where there's water. And I'm pretty sure I've actually seen these before, so maybe that's where my head was at when I was talking about diverting that. But anyway, I hadn't looked into it, but a listener said, hey, this exists because I was actually planning on installing a dryer that couldn't be on an exterior wall. And he's like, this is the solution.

[Joel]

So, yeah, how cool is that? Makes sense. There's the solution that's probably like 3D.

[Matt]

Print that junk up, do it.

[Joel]

And that's where we learn a lot.

[Matt]

Come up with your own solutions just

[Joel]

from replies from questions that we ask on the.

[Matt]

We just throw out there into the. Into the void.

[Joel]

And then there is somebody smarter than us. Usually he's like, I've got a.

[Matt]

A solution for your problem there. Yeah, that's a great way that. Yeah, we get to hear back from listeners.

[Joel]

By the way, can I just say, there was. Speaking of listeners, there was somebody in the Facebook group who posted, I don't know, maybe two, three weeks ago saying something, being very, very nervous about where things stood from an investing and stock market perspective and talked about radically changing their investing strategy.

[Matt]

Oh, I hope they didn't do that.

[Joel]

I know. I hope not too. And the replies, obviously, very classic and helpful in the Facebook group.

[Matt]

A lot of hold the line.

[Joel]

Really smart people. Yeah.

[Matt]

Stay the course.

[Joel]

And I just want to say, hopefully

[Matt]

that's what folks were.

[Joel]

I did not necessarily assume, oh, we'll be back at all time, highs by mid April. But we are, Matt. We are. And it's just the.

[Matt]

As of the time of this recording.

[Joel]

Right. And I don't have any stuff fluctuates, predictions. Well, yeah, that can change on a dime for sure. But I think it's just worth noting, right, that this is why we talk about investing over the long term. What happens? I was just talking with another friend about what my thoughts are on investing in the next decade or so. I'm like, man, I'm optimistic. And optimism usually sounds a little dumb. Don't you see all the risks, the hurdles that lay ahead of us on the road? It's like, yeah, I see them for sure. We talk about those risks. We'll talk about some today on the show. But that doesn't mean that over the long term, we don't still believe in the engine, the economic engine of the United States and that we should all be putting our money into the stock market to be beneficiaries of the intelligence and the brilliance that US Companies in particular, but you know, we're talking about investing in the world as well have to offer.

[Matt]

So totally, there's a lot of naysayers out there, but I have a lot of confidence in folks who are looking to make the world a better place, who are like their. Their life's work is to leave the world in a better place and than where they found it, which is, I think, a good life motto.

[Joel]

And sometimes like that kind of clashes with their idea of what the good life is. Thinking, man. I'm just thinking this is a tangent, but I'm just thinking about the molotov cocktails on OpenAI. Right. And that I don't think the idea of violence is ever warranted. But I also understand how kind of people feel angsty about artificial intelligence right now. So.

[Matt]

Yeah, but violence is not the solution.

[Joel]

No, it's not.

[Matt]

Okay, we can segue into AI Todd. Speaking of robots, let's talk about.

[Joel]

Let's go completely different direction. Okay. Let's talk about bag fees. We've all gotten used to the airlines

[Matt]

and all the, all the hikes. Yes.

[Joel]

Yeah, we've all gotten used to bag fees. But Matt, I remember a simpler time when they didn't exist because I think bag fees got instituted just before 2010.

[Matt]

I remember simpler times when airplanes didn't exist and we didn't have to worry about anything associated with just took the

[Joel]

horse and buggy wherever we wanted to go.

[Matt]

All you had to worry about were oats and what to do with the poop. I don't know.

[Joel]

All the poop.

[Matt]

It just. Yeah.

[Joel]

Can you, can you imagine that was actually.

[Matt]

Oh, gosh. What, what historian talked about that? Just the vast amounts of energy that had to go towards clearing the streets of poop, like in New York City back 100, 100 years ago.

[Joel]

We don't live in that existence.

[Matt]

Exactly. I'm not at all saying that. I'm glad to. Yeah, we are in a great place right now. It's amazing the technology, technology that we have and the ability to fly across the country just to like go see a friend.

[Joel]

Incredible. But it's getting more expensive and part of that is jet fuel surcharges and, you know, ticket price Hikes. But then it's also increased bag fees. And some people used to fly Southwest to avoid bag fees. They can't do that any longer because Southwest is just like all the other airlines now. Other people pack light. That's one of my kind of favorite ways to avoid bag fees. Don't check bags as often as you can.

[Matt]

Keep an eye out for Joel in the airport with his cargo shorts on.

[Joel]

My cargo packed to the brim. I don't wear cargo shorts. Not my jam, but I do. Not yet, but I've got my Kodo Paxi. We've talked about this. My Cotopaxi 28 liter bag that I can fit the best man, everything I need for like five days in.

[Matt]

I think it's my favorite product that we've never been. I don't know. We have a lot of favorite products. Like I'm looking at, mine's right over there on the floor. It's my daily commuter bag. It's so great. And I was actually wearing it rucking, slash running slash hiking with Kate last week every spring break. It makes a great.

[Joel]

It's the most versatile.

[Matt]

It's amazing. So great.

[Joel]

Is the best.

[Matt]

Yeah. Also fits within the tight little container on all el cheapo airlines who are going to make you check it because they're trying to stick it to you.

[Joel]

Other people, Matt, choose to get credit cards to help them avoid bag fees, which is not a bad route as well. Yeah, that can be a smart way to go, especially if you fly one airline regularly. And we're going to see, I think, more people jumping through more hoops to avoid bag fees because they're going up. Three of the big six airlines have raised bag fees in recent days. It's kind of like one makes the announcement and then the dominoes are going to fall in rapid succession from there. And part of the reason that they're raising bag fees instead of raising fares is because they think you'll notice less. And because like the fee at the end, you're like, oh, was it $40 before? And now it's 50, I don't remember. And you just pay it. And they also don't pay tax on fee derived income. So I think that is another reason when you just look at like the incentive that these airlines have. They have incentives to. To raise fees before they raise fares. So. And those fees tend to be kind of sticky.

[Matt]

How.

[Joel]

When have you ever seen a bag fee go down in price? Like, it just. It doesn't happen. But this is just. The stakes are higher now. So it Makes even more sense to try to avoid bag fees however you can.

[Matt]

It'll be interesting to see if the other three are able to hold the line and not raise fees. Because as I mean, a big part of the increases obviously have to do with the straight of Hormuz. But as there's more hope and talks that it's going to open, especially with Europe, you know, like all the European countries are meeting and trying to figure out a way to how can we manage this, how can we ensure that the oil can continue to flow? It'll be interesting to see whether or not those other three are able to actually have never raised their fees. And you start to see those gain in popularity as everyone's wanting to book with them as opposed to Delta. Right. Like they were the most. One of the more recent ones to raise fees. I just hope that Spirit is able to make it, man. You know, like, there's lots of talk about them liquidizing. I just want there to be an affordable option for folks that's equivalent to Ryanair.

[Joel]

Right. In Europe. Neither of us have ever flown Spirit before. Flown Spirit. Okay. You flown. I didn't think you had.

[Matt]

Okay, it's been a minute.

[Joel]

But we don't fly with regularity. But because they exist, we all pay cheaper prices.

[Matt]

Yes. And I just want there to be like a Greyhound bus version of an airplane. Like that. Well, no, that's more like what it's like in Europe with Ryanair, but still, I want there to be a super affordable megabus.

[Joel]

Megabus, which we haven't talked about a long time either, which is a cheap way to get around the country.

[Matt]

It's true. Another fee, though, that's been rising consistently are HOA fees. They are up 26% since 2019. So you got special assessments, you've got large repairs that are needed. And all of these can be painful for homeowners. These have been increasing. And some longtime condo owners, for instance, are paying more in fees more on their HOA than they are for their actual mortgage. Folks who have locked in, you know, they refinance and they're like, you know, I'm pretty happy with my 2.3% mortgage. They stretched it out.

[Joel]

10 years ago when prices were lower.

[Matt]

They stretched it out or even. Yeah, I guess I'm thinking even back to when a lot of condos during the Great Recession went for. Oh, my God, went for nothing. A song.

[Joel]

But I still remember going shopping with my little sister, trying to help her find a condo. She was singing One that was $45,000. Like that is so in a sweet part of town. So crazy. Crazy. Yeah.

[Matt]

And so now the average condo or Town Home HOA is $425. Obviously it's going to be less for, for single family homes, but we're seeing those on the rise too. And like you are getting something for your money, right? Like you, you, you are receiving something but it is obviously worth considering the trade offs. We want you to know what you are getting in return. We want you to know especially if you're considering purchasing a condo, right? Like if you're like Joel or if you yourself are the one who is looking at some of these, some of these different properties. Like what sort of financial shape is the HOA in? Like these are the kind of questions you need to ask. Like ask for the reserve fund balance, see if there's a reserve study that's been performed, look at the budget, look at recent financial statements. You don't have to be a financial expert to, you do need to be a personal finance enthusiast I think because essentially what you're looking at are the same sort of transactions that you would see within your own sort of ledger statement. Like what is the balance? What are the transactions looking like that's

[Joel]

actually have cash in the bank in case something happens to the property or updates need to be made in the next year or two.

[Matt]

Or can they even provide you with these statements if they can't? Well that's definitely, that's definitely a bad sign.

[Joel]

And then just what is the general state of the property? Because if you're like, oh, they don't of the building.

[Matt]

Yeah, building, but it looks like the

[Joel]

roof needs to be replaced on this whole condo unit in the next year or two because it's falling apart or man, there's paint chipping off everywhere. This is obviously going to be, then a special assessment might be coming down the pike. I might get hit with it and there's, yeah, that's a tough, tough spot to be in. Makes you think, I have a friend who bought a condo in Florida. He literally had to run for president of the HOA because it was so poorly managed and it became this part time job and headache for him for a really long time. And so yeah, if the HOA is, is poorly run, poorly managed, doesn't have the funds on hand, you could be entering into a nightmare. Not to mention just the perpetual costs. Right. That come with living in an hoa.

[Matt]

I think maybe what's at the heart of that is thinking that, I don't know for younger folks out there and not even all that young, but you just always expect that there's somebody who's responsible that's going to take care of this. But that's us, right? Like. Like, I mean, we're older millennials, but I'm sure there are plenty of millennials who are right now realizing that, oh, man, like, you are encountering more situations, more organizations, more institutions, where there's nobody who's actually doing the right thing. And so much of this is now essentially becoming our. I don't want to call it a

[Joel]

burden, but it's our responsibility.

[Matt]

And sort of like we were saying earlier, as far as, like, leaving the world in a better place than how you found it, like, I think that that could be a helpful way if you have the capacity to sort of take on some of these problems yourself, not to see it necessarily as a burden, but see for you to contribute to society and to help people around you.

[Joel]

Yeah. And on top of that, to protect the purchase you've made. Right. So it's like, there's a little bit of selfishness in there.

[Matt]

Oh, yeah.

[Joel]

But you can also, like, serve your neighbors.

[Matt]

It is good to be self interested in this way. Yeah. 100.

[Joel]

Well. And just makes you think of just the term dilapidated comes to mind when I think about the housing stock in the country. There was an article written recently about how just so many homes across the country are older. They're getting long in the tooth. They need. They need more work done to them. Like, literally, the house next to where we record has been bottom to top, like, completely redone because it was built in what, like the 1918 range? 1920s, that's what I would guess.

[Matt]

Yeah. And it's new siding, maybe 1910, new

[Joel]

front porch just put on. Like, they just had to do everything to that house because it was so dang old and it hadn't been updated in so long. And so the average age of a home in the United states is now 44 years old, which is almost about

[Matt]

your age, which is. No, that is literally exactly how old my home is.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

The house I live in right now,

[Joel]

mine is 44 years old. Mine's a little bit older than that.

[Matt]

Yours was built in the 60s.

[Joel]

Yeah. No, 59. 59.

[Matt]

Okay. There you go.

[Joel]

Yeah. So our homes fit into this category. But those have. We have yours a little bit older, made updates to them, but the cost of home maintenance has been exceeding inflation. And so I think we would all be wise to set aside extra money for home repairs and expenses, like probably 2 or more percent of your home's value on average, is what you should be budgeting. You can't predict everything that will go wrong with your home, but you can be financially prepared. And especially if you live in a cool older home. Right. That by definition is going to suck up more of your money.

[Matt]

Like, it's got so much character. Right.

[Joel]

And character.

[Matt]

That character costs money. I love it.

[Joel]

I love the character. And then you realize just how much money it costs to keep that thing up.

[Matt]

I will say one of the nicest things about living in a home that's only 44 years old is the fact that it's at least built with modern building codes. And so there's no sort of surprises waiting for me when I drill into a wall or when I. Yeah, I've been taking on more projects and we'll save this update maybe for some other time, but it's just nice to know that there are fewer surprises than some of the older properties we used to live in. Where it's just like, who knows?

[Joel]

Yeah. I think of it as maybe being similar to driving a 2005 car versus, like a 1975 car. 2005 is modern enough, right? Where you're modern enough and it's fairly easy to fix.

[Matt]

If you get that it's not a total death trap.

[Joel]

You're like, I don't know what to do.

[Matt]

Have you seen pictures of like speaking of the 50, you know, your house being from like the 50s? Have you seen kids car seats from the 50s?

[Joel]

No. Dude, they gotta be pathetic.

[Matt]

It is the craziest look. I mean, they look like total death trap guillotines, but just like with a kid sitting in it in the front seat, like with like a piece of webbing, like barely, you know?

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Oh my gosh.

[Joel]

How we used to face backwards, you know, in the Buicks and stuff, which

[Matt]

is honestly probably pretty safe, I would guess, if you're facing backwards. I don't know if you're buckled. If you're. Oh, yeah, yeah. Not if you're just bouncing around back there, which is likely how a lot of the station wagon. More likely, likely operating. All right, hey, let's talk about. Let's talk about tax refunds. Did you, have you gotten your tax refund?

[Joel]

Not yet.

[Matt]

You were owed one, right? Yes. Do you see it? How do you view your tax refund? Do you see it as like a. I guess more like from a political standpoint. Do you view it as like an interest free loan to the government that I finally get to get back, or do you view it as, oh, here's a way for me to pay what I need to pay to the government in order to provide for the common streets, military, you know, just all.

[Joel]

I see it both ways. Like, I see like it's part of it is a civic duty to keep like there's, and there's a lot of good that comes from my tax dollars. But then I also see there's a lot of waste and abuse. Right. And there's especially certain parts of the country you might point to and say, boy, that's really poorly run and it's nice to live in a place where it feels like your tax dollars are being used.

[Matt]

Well, yeah, I think that's a good way of viewing. I don't think I have very, very many emotions tied to it. Like, I just, I do it because I know I'm supposed to. I'm also trying to minimize how much I owe because I don't want to have to pay more than I, that I need to. But then I'm also very hopeful that it's used and efficient and used to the. It's put to good use.

[Joel]

But, and, and again, maybe you should run for public office, Matt, just so you can ensure that similar to running for HOA board. But you specifically asked about how I feel about the refund as well. And I think some people, man, like, who are over optimizers, they want to get it down to the penny or they want to get so close that their refund is minimal or they have to pay a small amount. And I don't think that's unwise. But I also don't obsess over that to that extent. I like to be in the ballpark and if I get, I think if I get a little bit of a refund, great, and I'll use it, you know, to further my financial goals. And if I have to pay a little bit, I'm prepared for that also.

[Matt]

Yeah. Well, good news for folks who count on it because refunds are up 11% on average. And a LendingTree survey reveals that folks are overwhelmingly spending their refund dollars on the necessities. They're not spending this money, this newfound, these newfound riches or this deposit on splurges in their life. And this makes sense given the recent inflation data, rising gas prices, the uncertainty that the future holds. 34% said they plan to use their refund dollars to pay for rent, groceries or on bills, which. There's a part of me, that there's a part of me that's sad about that. Right. So half of the survey participants say that they rely on their tax refund to get by. So, like that. I hate that. But as far as folks who, obviously, I want those folks to be less dependent on their tax refund, but as far as the folks who are just like, yeah, I'm going to use it on the necessities, I can totally resonate with that. Because if you approach your finances from a very fungible point of view, it goes into the general coffer, the Almix household coffer, and then it just gets. It's not like I'm earmarking that for something special, per se. Right. So because it's fungible in the way we operate our finances, it just. Yeah, that money is going to go to everything that we have decided we're going to allocate our funds to. We did that back in January at the beginning of this year for 2026. So I think some of it might come down to how it is that you've view your money, how you earmark things, how you'd like to save for things. It comes down to perhaps personality.

[Joel]

And maybe this feels like more of an emotional response. Well, I'm barely buying based on the headlines. So the $3,000 refund check, yeah, of course it's going to basics because, like, everything's more expensive. Don't you get it? And so I think there's probably some of that in this polling. I think people just feel very understandably so, especially when you're talking about maybe parity of wage increases and price increases. It you don't feel like you're getting ahead. And, you know, then something like gas prices going up, costing you an extra 60, $70 a month, you're like, well, I guess that's where this is going, is what. Is what it feels like. And that is the reality for some people, too.

[Matt]

Yeah. I do want folks to be smart about using the refunds, obviously, because this is a way to meaningfully boost your savings to pay off debt. Like, a lot of folks aren't getting that sort of influx, that infusion of cash, and so don't fritter it away. To a certain extent, I like that folks are the, quote, unquote, responsible adulting. Oh, the whole responsibility falls to me sort of theme again. Right. Like, oh, this is something that I need to be smart about as opposed to being like, you're in your 20s and you're just like, I'm going to put that towards a new mountain bike, you know, or something like that.

[Joel]

And we like bikes, but still. Absolutely. Yeah. Have A plan. Have a plan. Especially when we're talking about increased, increased tax refunds this year. Have a plan for it. Be smart. Be smart. Identify your top goals. Start funneling your money in that direction. And on that note, Matt, there could be other money in the ether waiting for how to money listeners more bonus dollars. Our good friend and former coworker, he just wrote a piece about unclaimed money for the Motley fool, which made me think, oh, it's a good. It's a good idea to mention this again. Maybe we talk about this a couple times a year and it's worth highlighting because every time we do, we get a bunch of emails from listeners who are like, dude, thank you. I just found free money. I didn't think it was possible. There are a lot of ways that your money could have gone missing in the past. It could even be like an old tax refund check that you didn't ca that money, after some time, it goes to the state as the whole. It's not like the state now owns that money. It's theirs, but they are the holder of those dollars that are yours. And so it's worth checking. Even if you think there's no way that there's money sitting around waiting for you, it's worth checking the websites, unclaimed.org and missingmoney.com those are the sites to check to see if there actually is money in your name from maybe an old bank account that you forgot about that has been closed and that money goes to the state. But, yeah, there could be a little bit of money out there for you that you weren't aware of.

[Matt]

Totally.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So, interestingly enough, the ftc, they actually just had a press release about scammers who are calling you to tell you about unclaimed money as well. And they'll make it sound like that you're owed a ton of money, like thousands of dollars, and you get super pumped and excited about that and you're like, oh, let me take advantage of this.

[Joel]

This is the thing Matt and Joel we're talking about, right?

[Matt]

Yeah, but that's not the case. And in fact, it's a phishing scam and they are attempting to get you to send them money. And so don't do that. If there is actually money that's owed to you, it's typically not that much. Like, we're talking in, like, the 50 to 150, maybe $200 range. Don't respond to those calls or those texts. Instead, just go straight to the websites that. That Joel mentioned. Unclaimed.org and missingmoney.com well, this makes you think, Matt.

[Joel]

The FTC also just recently announced that Americans lost record sums to scams in 2025.

[Matt]

A lot of people out there not taking our advice.

[Joel]

$15.9 billion was lost to scammers apparently last year. And that's it, really. It could be more than that. Right, so imposter scams are the most ubiquitous. Someone claiming to be, let's say, from the irs. Right, irs. I don't know how many of those messages you get on your phone, Matt. On a daily basis, it feels like I get a couple every day is what it. It's probably not accurate, but, like, that's how it feels. At least they're. They're constant, a constant barrage of these things. And then, of course, artificial intelligence is only accelerating these scams, and financial losses are climbing. And Mike Piper, who's actually our guest this week, talking about Social Security, I hope that was helpful for a lot of people. He had an article on his site about how much easier it is to fall for a scam on a mobile device. And we're on our mobile devices more, I believe it than ever. Think about even just. I think people are watching TV on TVs less. They're watching it on their phones more and more. It was like tv, then it was laptop in the bed. And I was like, I just watch everything on my phone. We do so much on our phone. Our guard is down. And it's harder, harder to see certain things right, on a phone versus on a desktop as well. So, like a scammy email address, it's just hard to, you know, when you're in Gmail or whatever mail app you use, it's harder to identify the sender. And so it's easier than ever for scammers to fake, like, a Vanguard email and to make it look like a professional one. And so when it comes down to it, just beware. Don't respond to those emails. Log in to the website directly. Use two factor authentication. Those are ways to help protect yourself. But we've also talked about this, Matt, too. It used to be like, oh, those scams are preying on the elderly. And there's obviously still some of that. But we're seeing a lot more scams targeted towards younger folks, Gen Z and millennials, and they are more at risk because they're using their devices and they're coming across people on social media or via kind of unsolicited emails that are out to get them.

[Matt]

That's right. Yeah, I think a big part of getting scammed on your cell phone on a mobile device is the fact that you're not necessarily in the head space to think clearly about whatever it is that you're currently doing. Right. Like you're on the move. Like the reason that when you sit down to a computer or to a desktop or you're sitting down in the office. Okay, let me finally respond to that Vanguard request. You log in via the methods that you typically do and you are in the headspace and you're like, wait a minute, this doesn't look as opposed to a quick text that you might receive and maybe you didn't even mean to click it. And all of a sudden you're on a website and it looks like the official website and you're like, well shoot, maybe I'll go ahead and log in. Yeah, you're just like in a different headspace. I think when you were on your mobile device on the move. Maybe you're surrounded by kids, maybe you're in the middle of an order at a restaurant or something like that. I picture all these life sort of circumstances that would cause you to quickly not properly vet a request like that. But man, we've got more to get to during our Friday flight today, including we'll talk about whether or not it makes sense to plunk down the change and get that degree. Are you going to earn that money back? We'll get to that more right after this.

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Matt]

hey, buddy, guess what? We're back. We're gonna continue along with the Friday flight.

[Joel]

Let's do it.

[Matt]

This is the second half.

[Joel]

I'm on the edge of my seat.

[Matt]

The third quarter, I guess, is what takes place after halftime. This is the ludicrous headline of the week, which is from the Washington Post. And the headline reads, some of the most popular graduate degrees don't pay off financially. Study fines. So you might be hearing this and think, oh, should I be going back to school for a graduate degree? Well, we would recommend that you consider the likely payoff. Of course, this is how to money. We want you to focus on the roi. And a study released by the Yale Tobin center for Economic Policy finds that doctors and lawyers, on average, they tend to get loads of value from their md. Right. So from that extra schooling. And so the study, it takes into account the years of reduced pay while you're getting the degree. Right. So there's a period of time, there's like a. What's the, you know, there's a trade off.

[Joel]

The opportunity to make less for a while.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Joel]

While you're getting the degree in order to make more later.

[Matt]

So there's that. There's also the cost of actual. That you got to pay to get that said degree. But then of course, it's considering the potential higher lifetime earnings as well. And turns out getting an mba, it's a bit of, it's more of a murky proposition versus, let's say, an md.

[Joel]

Yeah. Not a slam dunk.

[Matt]

In the same way, for an mba, the payoff is far smaller, which means more MBA degree Holders, you know, they're not benefiting a whole lot. It turns out that a graduate degree in clinical psychology, it should be pursued specifically for the love of the game because it showed that the payoff is often negative. And, man, that was kind of surprising to see that. And of course, this is, it's looking at the roi, right? It's looking at the return on all those factors, the most important of which I think is the cost of getting, again, said degree, right? Because if you look at the actual increase in earnings, the actual increase in income across the board, no matter what, like, it goes up, right? You get the degree, you're gonna see higher wages. But whether or not it's worth the actual dollars from an ROI standpoint, that's when you have to start considering, oh, maybe there is an alternative to this. Again, if you're just looking at it through or via a financial. The personal finance sunglasses that you put on when you listen to our show.

[Joel]

And that's certainly not the only thing you think about when you're getting a higher degree.

[Matt]

But that, no, that has to have

[Joel]

a major impact, right?

[Matt]

We always start with the money and then we talk about all the softer

[Joel]

stuff because most of the time you're not like, let me go get that degree so I can make less for the next, like two decades. Like, that's not usually the hope that

[Matt]

people have when they go back to

[Joel]

school, especially taking that time off and away from work or the hustle at night, right? Putting themselves through to get that master

[Matt]

sacrifice, man, that's what you're, what you're taking on there.

[Joel]

Literally just talking to a buddy who's about to get his, about to get his Masters. And I, I didn't ask. I don't know how much more he's going to get paid for it because he's kind of stuck staying in the same role, the same job. So I'm curious how that's going to play out for him.

[Matt]

Where is he going to get it, though? See, like, that's because again, like, I mean, there's such, like, if we're talking about NBAs, there's a big difference between paying $250,000 for an MBA at Columbia versus like $10,000 at Western Carolina.

[Joel]

That's right. That's right.

[Matt]

It's like, it's the same letters if you're looking for the, the, you know, the credentials. But obviously, you know, people are going to say, well, that's not why you're doing it, you dummy. Like, like the reason you go to Columbia is For the network, like, that is the product. And I totally understand that. But keep that in mind when you're paying maybe a bit more than you need to for a specific degree, I

[Joel]

think it is worth considering what kind of work do I want to do for a long time? Because that sort of ability to stick to it and not hate your life in the job that you're performing is crucial. That was a big part of the reason that Emily went back to school to become a therapist. It was like, oh, yeah, this probably will be better from, like, it'll be flexible. It'll be a better hourly rate than when I could command doing something else. And it's something that I love. So it hit a bunch of things. Although overall, she's not going to get paid in an insane amount. That's just not. If you're looking to make 250 grand a year, probably don't go be a marriage and family therapist. That's not going to do it. It's worth acknowledging that the ROI doesn't always come in dollars, but it could provide slightly higher income, better job security. Those things are also worth thinking about and continuing on. The thought of the value of college. Matt, for just a second. There's more opportunity these days to go to college for free. The Washington Post created a list of colleges that are offering free tuition across 45 states in the country. Many have a minimum GPA, maximum income requirements. So if you make too much, right, you don't qualify for the free tuition. We've seen this, especially at some of the Ivy Leagues, saying, hey, anybody that makes whose family makes less than 200k, your kid gets to come here and they don't owe a dime in tuition, which I think is really cool. But yeah, as the cost of college continues to climb and the headlines about a lack of affordability just proliferate, we're seeing them all the time. Free options to keep the cost down are clutch. And I'm just glad that the Washington Post made it kind of easily accessible to see them all in one place. We'll link to it in the show notes. But especially like when you're talking to a young person or you're talking to someone about going back to school. It's not just that idea of, like, should I get this degree? It's, well, how long is it going to take you? How much is it going to cost? Can you bring the cost down in different ways? And if you can, then it's going to make the value of that degree. I think it just increases the value that is right.

[Matt]

Let's get to the shrinking middle class here in America, Joel, because we talked earlier about how more folks are using their tax refunds to pay for necessities in life. And that might lead a lot of folks to believe that, man, everybody is struggling. It's actually not so. There are more upper middle class Americans now than ever before. And this is according to a new study from the American Enterprise Institute, 31% of Americans are now upper middle class compared to 10% about 45 years ago.

[Joel]

So that's a huge jump.

[Matt]

It's a massive jump, man. Yeah, folks in this category. And so that means folks who are earning between $133,000 up to $400,000. What's fascinating is that they don't tend to think of themselves as upper middle class folks, but they are, according to the data, according to the numbers. And so despite a lot of pessimism I think in recent years, it's just incredible to see data that reflects the reality of growing income of people who are building massive amounts of wealth, truly, for a large swath of Americans. And the. No, this doesn't mean that the rich get richer while the poor are getting poorer because there are actually fewer poor and lower class Americans now as well. So everyone, man, everybody is on the rise.

[Joel]

The rising tide is lifting the average of all boats.

[Matt]

Yes. And that certainly does not mean that inequality is not an unimportant issue. But there's also evidence here to suggest that standards of living are on the rise. Incomes, they continue to rise. And is that just really cool and encouraging to see that? The data seems to show that the key to moving up the wealth ladder has a lot to do with marriage or at least cohabitation, the ability to pool your resources. Not surprising. It also has a lot to do with education. And I think anyone who's down on America should look at that article. And of course, we always link to all the articles, articles that we mentioned on the podcast because it's so inspiring to hear these folks who are talking about like, oh man, I didn't have the ability or for me, for my parents to buy me a baseball glove.

[Joel]

Like that was a struggle.

[Matt]

And it's just incredible that that is not the same upbringing that I'm going to be able to provide for. My family is just, just so freaking cool. It gets me fired up. It makes me excited for again, all the companies out there doing amazing things, elevating the elevating standards of living that we're all able to participate in. Whether or not you yourself are super optimistic about where things are going or not.

[Joel]

I think there is a lot of pessimism right now about, well, how long is this going to continue? Will the next generation be as well off as our generation? In US History, I think there has been more optimism than there is now. Again, I don't want to sound like a Pollyanna, but I think there are still lots of reasons to be optimistic about just looking at recent history, the last 45 years, what has occurred. It's helpful to highlight that section to see, well, what has changed and to maybe reflect a little more on our collective. Obviously not everyone is thriving at the same rate, but it's like our collective ability to thrive, it really has increased. And yeah, our goal on this podcast is to point out things like that. So hopefully we can understand the position that we're in better and handle the money that comes into our lives in an efficient and intelligent way.

[Matt]

Yeah. And not to mention the fact that all the negative headlines are what get all the attention. So I feel like we have to work extra hard. It's just an uphill battle in order to present some of this positive news for folks as opposed to just easily. It's so easy to like backslide down into all the negative stuff as opposed to highlighting and lifting up some of the good stuff that's happening.

[Joel]

I remember a few years back there was like some, some website that was all it did was they wrote stuff, like hopeful stuff and like my grandma would send me those stories, you know, and it was a little bit annoying at times, you know. But I do think there is something about putting out that positive stuff into the world and recognizing this because it's so easy to see the negative stuff. And there's a lot of it that can be highlighted and it fills our newspapers. But when we talk about the good stuff, it's worth highlighting that too. But while the percentage of poor or lower class Americans is smaller, Matt, there's still the population hurt most by inflation, which is rearing its ugly head again. Most recent inflation reading was much higher than it had been and that's rising. Gas prices are big culprit in that and they take a disproportionate bite out of a smaller paycheck. And they're hurting. Found this interesting and this makes total sense. They're hurting gig workers in particular too. It's like Lyft and Uber drivers, right? Unlike the airlines, they can't institute fees on their passengers. They are essentially subject to the whims of Lyft and Uber and they don't have the ability to control their pricing. And so this Wall Street Journal article highlighted the kind of three second decision tree that drivers have to use as to whether they're going to accept or reject a ride. Like, okay, how far is that, how much is it going to cost me in gas? Will I be able to get another ride that brings me back here quickly, but if I don't accept this ride, then how long am I even sitting here waiting for the next ride? And it's really like, it's hard out there for rideshare drivers. And so driving rideshare has never been a highly lucrative endeavor, but the financials are just worse now. So I have to imagine that a lot will pivot to other gigs where no gas is needed, at least for a while if possible. And for many who do use this as like a full time way to make income, used EVs are looking more enticing. Especially if you're a rideshare driver, one of those people who is driving 40, 50 hours a week.

[Matt]

Does that work as far as like, I mean, what does it look like to recharge your EV though? When it comes to like, as far as like, I mean, my impression of Lyft and Uber drivers is that they're just constantly, look, they're just moving from one ride to the next and like any downtime is just time that they're not making money. So I don't know because even with like a level 2 charger, I mean it still takes a lot. I don't know, I never owned it. You owned an ev, so I've got a little less.

[Joel]

Level two is pretty quick. You can, I mean you can get, let's say like a supercharger, maybe like 15, 15 minutes. You can. Well, no, is that, I don't know, is it the supercharger?

[Matt]

That's why. No, like a supercharger I did use because when we rented a Tesla with Via Turo. Yeah, I mean, and we, yeah, we sat there for like 15 minutes, which isn't too different than like, you know, pulling into a gas station and filling up. Yeah, I don't know. I've certainly ridden around in some Teslas and I'm like, how do you do it as far?

[Joel]

Maybe I should take a lunch break at home and you plug it into a level 2 charger and then you head back out there on the streets,

[Matt]

take a little break.

[Joel]

When you think about the cost of gas, you're probably willing to make some pistons.

[Matt]

Yeah. Certainly tip if you can afford it to maybe Help keep some of these folks on the road, honestly. And this is where the market's beautiful. Because what happens if folks aren't tipping extra and they're incurring a larger expense? The market forces will cause some of those folks to say, well, this isn't worth it anymore. Like you said, right. Folks pivoting to non gasoline based gigs, which then does what? Oh well, it reduces the supply of drivers, which then does what the algorithm adjusts and all of a sudden those drivers who are still in the pool are getting paid more. Right. So I guess one way or the

[Joel]

other it will come.

[Matt]

We're gonna have to pay.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

If, if you wanna catch a ride share. But did you see the article too about. I forget the name of the website, but they were talking about drivers who are pitching life insurance. So like they're, they're like side hustling while they're side hustling. It was hilarious. They're poking fun at like hot moms who are Hawkin Mary Kay. And so you know, you got Uber drivers who are driving in. Yeah. Driving their Teslas around and they're like, hey, would you like life insurance? And it's like, why would I want life insurance?

[Joel]

Not here, not now, not in this way.

[Matt]

Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's maybe the moral of the story. The fact that like life insurance is great, but maybe don't purchase it in

[Joel]

the backseat of the Uber or Lyft

[Matt]

that happens to pick you up. Right. Like these are one of those decisions.

[Joel]

Maybe shop around, know how much coverage you need and compare, compare prices to and terms and know what kind of life insurance policy you're buying in the first place?

[Matt]

Yeah, well, first of all, do you have a family? Do you have anybody who is dependent on you for your income? But then beyond that, it's sort of like the scams with ingrained. Maybe this isn't necessarily a scam, but it's like the scammers who are hitting you up on your phone, like that's not the time or place for you necessarily to be logging in and updating your beneficiary or whatever, you know, whatever the scammers are trying to get out of you on your mobile device. In a similar way, I don't want folks buying life insurance in the back of their Uber on the way to the airport or something like that.

[Joel]

100%.

[Matt]

But yeah, we've got show notes up on the [e-mail] where we'll link to all the different stories that we mentioned today as well as other resources, including.

[Joel]

We'll put an article about how to think about buying life insurance. Like the parameters you need to. If you're. If you're like, man, Jill just brought up life insurance. I'm not going to buy it in the backseat of an Uber, but I'm

[Matt]

not going to do that.

[Joel]

Dummies do need a policy. Well, yeah, we've got an article that helps you through that.

[Matt]

Heck, yeah. But that's gonna be it for this episode. We hope everyone has a great weekend. Oh, we're gonna be. We're gonna be running some this weekend. We got a little. Little. Oh. What we didn't share was. I can't believe we didn't share this. We didn't share the 5k. The local fight. The local 5k race. You won gold, my friend.

[Joel]

In the old man age group. Certainly not overall.

[Matt]

What's fun is that I also won silver.

[Joel]

You did. We crushed it, dude.

[Matt]

And I can't believe that because I left and I didn't stick around for the thing. I bet you did it for you. You picked it up. For which I do appreciate. But it would have been so great to have had a picture of you and me with our medals with the mayor. With the mayor in the middle, which is this old guy.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Anyway, I hope you do well this weekend.

[Joel]

You too.

[Matt]

Thank you.

[Joel]

Fun to run together.

[Matt]

It'll be a lot of fun. Yeah. Well, we hope you have great plans for this weekend as well and we'll see you back here on Monday with a fresh after ask how to money episode. We will see you then. So until next time.

[Joel]

Best friends out.

[Matt]

Best friends out.

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