Friday Flight - Housing Boom Busts, AI-Induced Outrage, & Infinite Workdays #1023

Summary

How to Money - Episode #1023: Friday Flight - Housing Boom Busts, AI-Induced Outrage, & Infinite Workdays

In episode #1023 of How to Money, co-hosts Joel and Matt tackle a trio of hot-button issues impacting personal finance and everyday life: the fluctuating housing market, the unintended consequences of artificial intelligence in customer service, and the pervasive nature of modern workdays. Their engaging conversation offers valuable insights, practical advice, and thoughtful reflections aimed at helping listeners navigate these complex topics.

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1. Personal Investments and Consumer Advocacy

Joel and Matt kick off the episode by sharing personal anecdotes about enhancing their living spaces and fitness routines. Joel discusses purchasing a used Peloton bike from Facebook Marketplace to utilize their sunroom more effectively. However, he encounters an unexpected hurdle:

Joel (06:38): "It's utterly ridiculous."

Joel criticizes Peloton for imposing a hefty $100 activation fee when transferring a used bike to a new account. After persistent efforts, he successfully has the fee waived, underscoring the importance of advocating for oneself as a consumer.

2. Housing Market Trends: Is a Boom-Bust Cycle Looming?

The conversation shifts to the housing market, where Joel and Matt analyze whether the current surge in housing prices indicates a sustainable trend or an impending bubble.

Matt (08:35): "It seems more like a slow leak as opposed to just like a sudden popping."

They delve into historical price trends, noting the significant increase from 2020 to 2022 driven largely by the COVID-19 pandemic. Matt advises potential homebuyers:

Matt (10:10): "I think now is the time to strike personally to buy."

Joel concurs, suggesting that prolonged ownership may mitigate risks associated with market fluctuations:

Joel (12:05): "Have a plan to own longer because it's really hard to know where the housing market goes from here."

3. Evolution of Real Estate Agent Fees and Technological Disruption

Addressing listener feedback, the hosts discuss the stagnation of real estate agent commissions despite regulatory changes:

Matt: "Agent compensation hasn't really changed much since that ruling."

They highlight emerging startups like Turbo Home, Shop Prop, and Areva that aim to reduce transaction costs in real estate. Joel emphasizes the potential savings:

Joel (14:35): "You could be talking about $10,000 or more in savings."

4. Credit Scores and the Influence of Social Environment

Joel and Matt explore a Harvard study involving 25 million individuals, revealing that financial habits are heavily influenced by one's immediate social environment. Joel reflects on the challenges of personal finance education:

Joel (17:15): "There are some people who are going to be more difficult to help."

They also reference a USAA report highlighting that many Gen Z individuals lack knowledge about their credit scores:

Matt (18:56): "Half of Gen Zers don't even know what their credit score is or even what constitutes their credit score."

5. Expanding Investment Options in Retirement Accounts: Opportunities and Risks

The hosts examine a recent executive order aimed at broadening investment choices within workplace retirement accounts to include alternative assets like cryptocurrency. Joel voices skepticism:

Joel (22:01): "I don't necessarily think that people need access to alternative investments and more cryptocurrency inside of their 401ks."

Matt acknowledges potential benefits but cautions against the volatility associated with crypto:

Matt (23:00): "If you were the next renter, right? And like that... owning some crypto can actually help you to get a mortgage."

6. AI-Induced Customer Outrage: The Hertz Incident

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the unintended consequences of deploying AI in customer service, focusing on Hertz's introduction of AI-powered damage scanners. Joel recounts a customer’s frustrating experience:

Joel (30:18): "One customer was charged $195 for a dent that looked like it crashed into an ant."

They discuss how AI can lead to erroneous charges and damage customer trust, ultimately affecting a company's reputation and financial health. Joel advises listeners to protect themselves by documenting vehicle conditions meticulously:

Joel (31:33): "Take a 360 video as you're walking around the car... that way you can at least have a fighting chance."

7. The Era of Infinite Workdays: Balancing Productivity and Well-being

Joel and Matt address the Microsoft Work Trend Index report, which highlights the rise of "infinite workdays" where employees are overwhelmed by constant communications and extended work hours. Joel references Cal Newport’s concept of "Deep Work":

Joel (39:25): "How do you actually get deep work done when it feels like you can't?"

Matt suggests practical strategies to mitigate distractions and maintain productivity:

Matt (41:04): "Set dedicated time to the project at hand... or maybe you can just leave all the notifications on, Joel, but just put earplugs in."

Joel adds personal tactics for maintaining focus:

Joel (42:03): "If I see the number popping up, I'm tempted to go over there and get in and I get distracted pretty quickly."

8. Conclusion: Navigating Modern Financial and Lifestyle Challenges

Throughout the episode, Joel and Matt provide a balanced perspective on navigating the intertwined challenges of personal finance, technological advancements, and evolving work dynamics. Their candid discussions encourage listeners to stay informed, advocate for themselves, and adopt strategies that align with their financial and personal well-being.

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Key Takeaways:

• Consumer Advocacy: Don't hesitate to challenge unfair fees and advocate for better terms.
• Housing Market: Consider long-term ownership strategies amidst a stabilizing but unpredictable market.
• Real Estate Technology: Explore new platforms to reduce transaction costs in real estate dealings.
• Financial Education: Emphasize the importance of understanding credit scores and financial literacy from a young age.
• Retirement Investments: Approach expanded investment options with caution, particularly concerning volatile assets like cryptocurrency.
• AI in Customer Service: Be vigilant and document interactions to protect against potential AI-induced errors.
• Work-life Balance: Implement personal strategies to manage distractions and maintain productivity in an ever-connected work environment.

For more detailed discussions and practical tips, tune into How to Money every Monday with Joel and Matt.

Transcript

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Sports Announcer]

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[Joel]

Welcome to how to money. I'm Joel.

[Matt]

I'm Matt.

[Joel]

Today we're talking housing boom busts, AI induced outrage, and infinite work.

[Matt]

Oh, infinite work days sound much less appealing than the infinite pool that you want to be at sipping a drink while you're on vacation.

[Joel]

I'm need you to come in on Sunday for those TPS reports.

[Matt]

Matt, do people even understand Office Space references anymore?

[Joel]

I would hope so. It's still one of the greatest comedies of all time.

[Matt]

If you're a boomer like you are.

[Joel]

No, they don't make great comedies anymore.

[Matt]

It is more. All right, Derek Thompson.

[Joel]

No, they don't.

[Matt]

Oh, I know. Yeah. Yeah, that's something. He's. He harps on just how it's just true. It is true. And I think the reasons given often are. It's definitely the case. It's less something that you can translate to other cultures and countries. Right. Like, as opposed to like a big action. Everyone understands fear. Everyone understands suspense. Comedy can be more of a regional. Certainly a more country based thing.

[Joel]

Yeah. I don't know. Joe Dirt, I think hits in every region, Matt. But yeah, maybe not in China, which is where. Yeah. Hollywood needs to make movies that do well there.

[Matt]

Now the. Okay, so the Office Space, I feel like it was just more of a Gen X movie as opposed to. Yes. Our generation wasn't really watching.

[Joel]

Wasn't that Mike Judge who also did King of the Hill, which is coming back? Come on.

[Matt]

All right, Joel, over here making a case for Office Space. If you've never seen it, go out and watch it and let's see if it still holds up.

[Joel]

And you can email me if you wasted an hour and a half of your time.

[Matt]

But I'm going to say put your email out there.

[Joel]

How to moneypodmail.com I don't want to read these emails. Email both of us. I will reply. If you hate it, then you're wrong, but you can tell me why.

[Matt]

All right. Now, this is our Friday flight and we are going to cover the top personal finance stories we came across this past week. The ones that we think are going to impact you the most. The ones that we think that you need to be paying attention to.

[Joel]

Yeah. Real quick. So we bought a used peloton bike for Emily. She's like, we have this little sunroom that's right off our.

[Matt]

That was your project for this summer, was to reclaim the sunroom.

[Joel]

The kids had taken it over and we had to declutter and we wanted it to be more of a room that she and I get to use. I've got my little sauna tent in there. She's got her. I've got my rowing machine. She's got a little peloton.

[Matt]

I feel like the first thing that's going to break on your portable sauna tent is the zipper.

[Joel]

Yeah. So far it's held up surprisingly well.

[Matt]

I can totally see you going to unzip it or someday and it's just going to be pull off. And you're saying, dang it.

[Joel]

That's also why I got it at Costco, because I was looking at ones on Amazon, but I was like, I gotta get Costco because the return policy is much better.

[Matt]

But would you feel. How long, how many uses would you put it through before you would feel bad about taking it back? Because we've talked about it. This is why we can't have nice things at Costco anymore, because people abuse it.

[Joel]

I'm probably getting to that point where. Yeah, if it broke, how long have you had it?

[Matt]

Since my nine months birthday.

[Joel]

So, yeah, not really that long. Six months.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Joel]

So if it broke today, I'd be morally questionable. Yeah. Okay. All right. Peloton. So bought a used peloton on Facebook Marketplace from somebody. Even though Peloton we talked about this has their own site for reselling used pelotons now. But they're way more expensive than buying it from the slew of people who are selling their pelotons on Facebook. The price has gone down dramatically because everyone's trying to get rid of their glorified coat hanger. That. That is their peloton.

[Matt]

They're like, I've been tired of looking at this thing for the past four years that I got back in 21.

[Joel]

Yes.

[Matt]

When.

[Joel]

But Emily saw the rage. She's been it. She's been enjoying it. But the one thing I was surprised by and a little bit frustrated about when we bought the used Peloton, you know what Peloton is trying to do to siphon money from users? If you buy a used bike, they want to charge you a $100 activation fee for switching that bike over to another account.

[Matt]

It is an activation fee.

[Joel]

Yeah. It was already activated by somebody else being used. And you're trying to switch it over to. To be under your name.

[Matt]

So that would be like Apple. It's like you selling your phone and being like, yep, I've wiped it here. Yeah, this one's totally factory reset. And Apple being like, no, no, no, we get a cut of that because somebody else is going to now use it.

[Joel]

It would be exactly like that.

[Matt]

That's so stupid.

[Joel]

Like, hey, I'm going to sell my book. And then the author gets. Actually gets paid to get more royalty.

[Matt]

Yeah, no, that's not how it works. That's not how the used market works, man.

[Joel]

Utterly ridiculous.

[Matt]

Yeah, totally.

[Joel]

This is the kind of thing that only a brand like Peloton could get away with, where they've. They're just banking on rich customers who don't care about money, and they're like, I guess part of doing business.

[Matt]

But that's not what you did.

[Joel]

No.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Joel]

No.

[Matt]

Give me the consumer advocate or consumer advocate success story here.

[Joel]

You got to call in and advocate for yourself. This is, by the way, if you want, like a nerdy economist term, it's called rent seeking. And this is total. This would be a great definition of rent seeking by Peloton saying, like, listen, we've already, like, got. We've landed our hooks into this territory, and it's a way we can just make extra money just fleecing people who don't deserve to be fleeced. And it's pretty unethical also. But so I called Peloton. I'm like, listen, we don't want to pay this fee. Like, what in the world do we do to avoid this thing? And it took talking to a couple of different representatives. You just kind of have to keep pushing the envelope to get them to finally agree to that.

[Matt]

I love talking to customer service people.

[Joel]

It's not my favorite.

[Matt]

I wish it was willing to do.

[Joel]

It, but I'm willing to do it especially for 100 bucks.

[Matt]

So it was just a one time, hundred dollar fee.

[Joel]

One time, hundred dollar fee.

[Matt]

So you got it waived?

[Joel]

Got it waived.

[Matt]

Nice. Yeah, very nice, dude. All right, well, for all the folks, this is for, obviously for everyone out there who's thinking about getting the secondhand peloton, or you can just jump on the bike that you already have right out there. The. The traditional.

[Joel]

I like, prefer to ride on the street.

[Matt]

The traditional bike in the wild scenario where the wind's blowing through your hair.

[Joel]

Emily and I differ in this regard. I bike. I ride on my real bike. She rides.

[Matt]

You get to pass your neighbors, have a conversation with them, cut down on emissions because you're not driving your vehicle. Combine it with needing to run an errand. Not to mention the cost savings of the aforementioned benefits.

[Joel]

I'll let. I'll let you talk to my wife about that.

[Matt]

Hey, I'll do it. Also, maybe one of the things you're talking about with your neighbors as you're Riding past their houses. Oh, what do you think about the so and so's over there? They got their house listed for sale. It's been sitting on the market forever. There's one in our neighborhood that's literally a conversation I had with one of our neighbors. Like, what's going on with it? It's like, oh, hasn't been renovated recently. You think the.

[Joel]

It's overpriced?

[Matt]

Well, I think it is. And I think that's one of the questions a lot of folks are wondering is like, has there been a housing like bubble essentially and is it about to pop? And I would say that it's. It seems more like a slow leak as like versus just like, like a sudden popping.

[Joel]

Right. Less 2009, more its own thing.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Yeah. Numbers from almost every corner of the market out there are showing asking price decreases. There is showing more seller concessions. Inventory decreases as well.

[Joel]

Inventory increases more.

[Matt]

I'm sorry, more homes on. Yeah, more homes are on the market. Which to be honest though, it's also just returning back to like pre pandemic norms. Essentially we saw a significant decline and that was in large part why, why there was such an increase in housing prices. But we're also seeing more cancellations after houses are going under contract. Folks are basically getting cold feet during due diligence. And this is such a far cry, dude, from a few years ago. Homeowners obviously don't love seeing this and sellers of course are not pleased. You know, like back when there was an open house and buyers were lined up around the block just to be able to get in and see the place. It's not like that.

[Joel]

Remember those calls for highest and best like two years ago, three years ago. And the insanity of how much people are willing to pay and bid up the price. It was, it was really unseen. I don't remember a time, at least in my life where that was the case.

[Matt]

Yeah. So I want to put a note out there for a lot of folks who have been been thinking about purchasing a home because I think, dude, this is my personal opinion. I think now is the time to.

[Joel]

Strike personally to buy. Okay.

[Matt]

I do. Because I don't think, I don't think we're going to continue to see decline. So I, this morning I pretended to be a chart analyst.

[Joel]

Okay.

[Matt]

Then I pulled up the.

[Joel]

I was going to say, how did.

[Matt]

You come to this? What am I basing this on? And I pulled up some data from the Fed. I was looking at the chart and if you look at just the trend. So if you look at the median home price in the US from starting from around 09, 2010. And if you follow that up to pre pand, so like around 2019, there's a pretty consistent line. And then of course, what you saw, slight decrease, but then you see it shoot up. Specifically, a lot of folks are thinking about the last 15 years as when we saw these massive price increases. I think all of that was just kind of catching back up to where things needed to be. After the housing crisis, prices just went way too low. 7, 8, 9. Exactly.

[Joel]

Like in 2011, you could get a house for not much money.

[Matt]

Yeah. And so I think all that was relatively healthy growth. But what we saw basically in the two years 20 to 22, we saw a massive increase. It was Covid. It all comes back to Covid. And if you draw that line, basically from 9 to 19, we are about where prices should be. We saw it spike where we got way ahead of the curve. And for the past couple years, two, three years, we've seen prices basically plateau. They're starting to decline just a little bit.

[Joel]

And some of it depends on local markets.

[Matt]

Right, it depends on local markets, but finally financing as well. And so I think personally, my personal opinion is I would not be surprised if we see mortgage rates come down. Right. If the Fed lowers rates, which there is talk about that potentially happening next month in September, I think that could be the first. That could be the starting line of the market opening back up.

[Joel]

If mortgage rates go down, I think that will increase buyer interest. I think you're probably right. And then maybe instead of declining prices, we do start to see prices go up again, but just at a far less accelerated pace.

[Matt]

It will not be at the pace.

[Joel]

That we see because that was just unsustainable.

[Matt]

Yeah, totally.

[Joel]

And I think, but I think this, this does maybe as far as advice for potential home buyers, have a plan to own longer because it's really hard to know where the housing market goes from here. I appreciate your. Your insights, Matt, and, and you really might be right.

[Matt]

My hot take.

[Joel]

Yeah, I mean, you might be right. But like my. I know somebody right now in my family who's selling a home after owning it for two years. And that's just. There's a chance because of just what's happened with housing prices that she's going to do okay even after, you know, real estate, realtor expenses. But there's also, it's a hard position to put yourself in. And if you're planning, the longer you plan to own, the more likely it is to be a decent decision to buy, even if you are slightly overpaying.

[Matt]

Totally agree.

[Joel]

Speaking of agents, we got an email, got an email the other day criticizing us for talking about 3% fees for real estate agents. Well, you know, they don't charge that much anymore is what the emailer said. Well, yet legally, they don't have the same leeway to just flat out charge 3% based on that ruling against the national association of Realtors. But in practice, agent compensation hasn't really changed much since that ruling. But for savvy consumers who know how to negotiate, some people are able to claw back some of the agents fees they would have paid. This is particularly happening at the higher end of the spectrum where someone's saying, you're going to sell my $3 million home. Well, awesome. But guess what? I'm going to pay you one, one and a half percent instead of the 3%. And their agents, like, that's still pretty good payday. I'll do it. But yet I think technology too, is finally and slowly starting to make an impact on this front. There are startups in some states that are helping a sliver of buyers of all price points to majorly cut transaction costs. There's one called Turbo Home, another one called Shop Prop, and another one called Areva. We'll link to these in the show notes. But these, I like to say, Ariva, arrive at them.

[Matt]

You've arrived at your home.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Ariva makes me think more of Speedy Gonzalez, the little mouse, which I'm pretty sure he was probably canceled.

[Joel]

Or also makes me think of like the cold sore medication for some reason. Areva. Yeah. I don't know why. What, what is it called?

[Matt]

That, like the canker sore. It's on like the little wand and you put it on your sore and it like, numbs it, probably.

[Joel]

What's that?

[Matt]

I thought it's called like B something, but not.

[Joel]

No, it's called Burriva. No. I don't know.

[Matt]

All right. But I love Riva for you. Arriva for me.

[Joel]

Yeah. But these three different startups are a potentially good way for buyers and sellers to kind of hook up at a fraction of the price.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Joel]

And this really, like, when you look at how much transaction costs are in the typical transaction, you could be talking about $10,000 or more in savings. And. Awesome. Agents can really be worth. Worth the fee. But. But there's also a growing place, I think, for agents who charge reduced fees and for technology to kind of grease the wheels of real estate transactions, making it a little easier to buy and sell and less costly.

[Matt]

That's right. So a couple years ago, I think it was back in 23, Joel, we talked about how medical debt below a certain threshold wouldn't affect your credit. Well, that's no longer the case. Originally, back under the Biden administration, the cfpb, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, they instituted a medical debt rule that benefited millions of Americans out there by not penalizing the credit for small medical debts.

[Joel]

Yeah, less than 500 bucks, right?

[Matt]

Yeah, that's right. That was recently overturned by a judge. But even still, credit bureaus, they have the ability to factor medical debt in different ways. And all three are still not including balances below 500 bucks. So that's good.

[Joel]

It's like not legally mandated, but a choice that they're making.

[Matt]

It's like a. Yeah. And there's a lot of that, actually, that we're going to cover today in different, in varying ways. There have been different recommendations perhaps, or even an executive order that's not necessarily enforceable by law because it's not something that Congress is taking any action on. But there's also a one year grace period before overdue medical debt gets reported. So we want, we're putting this out there as a nice little psa. We want folks to be aware and specifically as well to go back and listen to some of the different episodes that, where we've discussed negotiating medical debts. If you are finding yourself in a situation where you're like, oh my gosh, got hit with this medical bill that I was not expecting, we don't have the money on hand for that. Even if, hey, even if you do have the money on hand like Joel does, when it comes to some different fees that these companies are hitting you with, it is always worth negotiating to see if you can push back.

[Joel]

I could pay Peloton 100 bucks, but I'm not going. Going to.

[Matt]

That's right.

[Joel]

Basically. Well, it's been said too, Matt, on the credit score front that you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And I think there's a lot of truth to that.

[Matt]

Right.

[Joel]

That we rub off on each other. I've learned a lot being your friend. I think I. My what my life would look like would be different if we didn't hang out so much.

[Matt]

You wouldn't be nearly as cool.

[Joel]

Well, that's true. That's definitely true. And vice versa.

[Matt]

I wouldn't know half of the great musical artists that I know because of you. As you're sitting there wearing your brand new Billy string shirt. And I'm sorry that I have not even commented on. I know you're excited about.

[Joel]

Glorious, isn't it?

[Matt]

I commented on the one that you had on yesterday.

[Joel]

I wear a lot of.

[Matt]

But this one, it's purple.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Not a lot of men out there are rocking purple.

[Joel]

Purple tie dye, baby. I'm. I'm all for it. Yeah.

[Matt]

Joel's not scared.

[Joel]

Especially when I'm supporting the best guitarist of all time. Okay. But credit scores. This new Harvard study of 25 million people found that financial habits are similar to other people who grow up in an environment like yours. So you rub shoulders with folks for 18 years, and you're likely to have similar credit scores and loan delinquency rates. And that's actually not terribly surprising to me. There are, of course, like, individual examples of folks rising above their circumstances. But I see this as another reason to get on the ground personal finance education into neighborhoods that need it most. Because one of the toughest things about doing what you and I do, Matt, is realizing that there's a bunch of people who grew up without any helpful personal finance advice. And they're probably not, like, on their podcast or saying, what is, like, a good personal finance podcast that could help me out at this point in time. It's just kind of off their radar. Yeah. And so I think it's a good call for us to surround ourselves with folks who encourage us on our money journey. But also it's just kind of discouraging in some ways, too, to realize that there are some people who are going to be more difficult to help. It's going to be harder to find those.

[Matt]

I think a lot of those folks, it's less the advice, and it's more that there's also just nobody in their life who has lived it out essentially. Right. Like, oftentimes we look to mentors or just others that we can look up to. Actually, on that note, do you see the report by USAA about Gen Z? Everyone likes to pick on Gen Z, and they're saying that, like, half of Gen Zers don't even know what their credit score is or even what constitutes their credit score.

[Joel]

Yeah. They don't know how it's made up.

[Matt]

And I appreciate that USAA is trying to shine light on the younger generations. Right. Because that's kind of what you were speaking to as well. Like making sure that we are doing what we can to help those around us. And maybe to a certain extent, USAA is doing that as well. But also half of you, Gen Z The Gen Z generation are like middle schoolers and high schoolers. So there's a part of that too, where I'm just like, I'm also not going to necessarily expect a middle schooler or a high schooler to know what their credit score is because it's like, well, you probably don't really have a credit score. I don't know. I didn't dive into that study in depth. But I think there is a large part of that generation who they're just getting started. Right. And just like we back in the day, what did we do? We focused on being cheap. You actually are seeing Gen Z doing more of that sort of stuff. Embracing being frugal is something that I saw reported recently.

[Joel]

I couldn't have told you much about credit scores or credit reports when I was in middle school either.

[Matt]

Exactly. Yeah. So I think we all just need to kind of play our part to educating the next generation of financial savvy Americans.

[Joel]

Yeah. I mean, I think, though, as you get older and the credit score is a big part of our financial lives. And so knowing what your credit score is, knowing how your credit score comes about, like the factors that make it up, is important. We've got information on that at our website. Howtomoney.com Matt, let's talk about executive a new executive order for a second that actually makes it more likely that your workplace retirement account is going to have access to even more investment options. That sounds like a good thing. Including alternative assets. Cryptocurrency. Basically how this was worded in the executive order is that the Department of Labor is supposed to revisit fiduciary guidelines. And when you pull the curtain up on that, the only way that they can make this or that this executive order can push retirement accounts in this direction to offer more alternative assets in cryptocurrency is to say that the fiduciary standard isn't as big of a deal. And so I don't love that, Matt, because I don't necessarily think that people need access to alternative investments and more cryptocurrency inside of their 401ks. And kind of on another point, like Aldi, you know, we're keen on a smart selection that doesn't overwhelm folks. There's not 62 different versions of ketchup and Aldi. There's like two. Right. And so I think most people already get overwhelmed when trying to choose what to invest in, like, which fund makes sense for them. And then a lot of the funds that could become available in the aftermath of this executive order, they're inferior in so many ways. Right. They're more illiquid, they come with higher fees, and then the kicker, they don't produce higher returns on average. So I don't know how effective this executive order is going to be and when you might start seeing some of these different funds available in your 401k, is this like months down the road or years down the road? I don't know, but it doesn't matter to me. Like, I think index funds, the thing that we talk about all the time, it doesn't matter if like 82 funds are added to your roster of choices tomorrow. It still shouldn't change what you pick.

[Matt]

Yeah, I see what you're doing here. You are putting head to head my love of Aldi and the lack of options there with my desire for libertarian options. Right. And for the market to decide. Because on one hand, I'm with you. I don't want there to be more options for folks to kind of muddy the waters. But at the same time, I want the market to decide and I want the market to say, is this something that's valuable or. And if it is, it will succeed and do well. If it isn't, then it's something that hopefully will in most cases, most of these cases, hopefully, it'll just end up dying on the vine as opposed to being something that more and more folks get pulled into. As we are talking about alternative assets, specifically crypto, owning some crypto can actually help you to get a mortgage. Possibly Fannie and Freddie, they are pivoting to factoring in your crypto holdings when they are making loans. Now, if you were, let's say, an early adopter and you've got a decent chunk of bitcoin, well, that can help you to qualify for a mortgage, which this could be a good idea. I like. They are truly assets.

[Joel]

Right.

[Matt]

And so today were someone to liquidate their holdings of, let's say, bitcoin, let's say they, you know, they had one bitcoin. That's a lot of money that could go towards a down payment on a house.

[Joel]

$122,000. Right.

[Matt]

Depends on when. Yeah, exactly. By the second. But given that volatility, that's also the downside because it's just like, well, the underwriting process is typically, let's just say it doesn't move as quickly as crypto prices do. And so I could also see that not being a great thing. If you were counting on some of that money for your down payment as opposed to Actually, if you want to use some of those funds, maybe you should go ahead and liquidate that and then you could put that towards a down payment. But hopefully it doesn't really matter all that much because there aren't how to Money listeners don't have an overwhelming percentage of their portfolio in cryptocurrencies. Maybe just a little bit enough to be interested, and that's what I've got going on.

[Joel]

So like factoring at the margins.

[Matt]

Exactly. And again, this is more guidance that has been given at the executive level. So the staying power of this, how much it actually does impact loans that are going to be made moving forward is yet to be determined.

[Joel]

Yeah, we've got more to get to, Matt, including how artificial intelligence is frustrating people who travel and rent cars regularly. We'll talk about that and some interesting workplace trends as well. We'll get to those stories and more right after this.

[Bob Crawford]

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[Joel]

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[Matt]

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[Joel]

That's guardianbikes.com built in the USA, made specifically for kids. Guardianbikes.com hey y', all, it's Joel and.

[Matt]

Matt from how to Money and Joel. We both love getting outdoors and embarking on the next next big adventure. Actually, you've been taking it to the next level with your backpacking trips.

[Joel]

That's true. Yeah. But folks might be surprised to know that our last international trip was actually all about relaxing. Right. Instead of hoofing it, we went to the Dominican Republic. Sometimes doing less is exactly what you need. You need sun, sand, and no spreadsheets.

[Matt]

It's true. Yeah, it was great. Waking up to the water, unplugging, recharging. The whole vibe was just about slowing down. I think that could be the worst part of of setting off on an overly ambitious trip is the fact that the amount of planning and the amount of logistics that goes into it, it can be a lot. That's why slowing down is sometimes exactly what you need. Finding that balance.

[Joel]

Yeah, that kind of peace is what travelers are looking for in Airbnb. Right. Whether it's a quiet beach spot or a cabin in the woods, hosting can help someone else get that same experience.

[Matt]

That's right. And on the flip side, hosting could help you to fund your next big adventure. If you're thinking about hosting while you're away, the Airbnb co host feature makes it easy to get started. Someone local can handle the day to day, so you don't have to worry. Find a co [e-mail] host. All right, buddy. We are back from the break. And now it is time, of course, for the ludicrous headline of the week. We're gonna spend a minute here talking about artificial intelligence. The old AI, it's kind of new.

[Joel]

But it's Yeah, I don't know.

[Matt]

I don't know. I feel like at this point, it does feel like.

[Joel]

Like there's too much talk about it.

[Matt]

There's so much.

[Joel]

But this is where the rubber hits the road right here, Matt, with this story specifically.

[Matt]

I like this story a whole lot, actually.

[Joel]

I mean that in a very literal sense.

[Matt]

It does. This one's from Sherwood. Headline reads, Hertz says it's AI powered damage scanners are supposed to enhance your customer experience. And part. Okay, so I was just saying that I am glad that I actually, like. I'm a big fan of the story. Sherwood is out there doing some real. Some real journalism.

[Joel]

Yeah, they are. Which is like Robin Hood's news brand.

[Matt]

Which initially, when they rolled it out. So this is a little bit of media talk, right? So there's some shows we listen to and they. The whole time they just talk about media and some of the different outlets and what's wrong with the world of media specifically. So this is gonna be our tiny little segment.

[Joel]

A lot to drill down on as we.

[Matt]

As we talk about that. But I was skeptical of Sherwood initially. First of all, it's kind of a too catchy of a name coming from Robinhood as a trading platform. It's like, of course you're gonna name your news outlet media outlet here. Thing sure would. But the author of this piece was listening in to the earnings call of Hertz, and that's how he discovered the fact that they were implementing some of this AI to again, enhance the customer experience. And it turns out that it's actually harming the customer.

[Joel]

Well, that's like the nitty gritty stuff that you have to do as a reporter to get. I love it. The good story. Right?

[Matt]

Y.

[Joel]

The earnings calls.

[Matt]

And I don't know, because the thing is, these companies, they're not broadcasting necessarily. Some of them are, and they're learning really quickly. Oh, well, yeah. When we are using this against you. Customers don't like that. But if they are quietly mentioning it on a. On a. On an earnings call, they're thinking, all right, this isn't. No one's going to hear about this except for the investors. And it's going to positively impact our share price, which it did in this case. But the customer out there, the renters of vehicles, they're not going to hear about it.

[Joel]

It.

[Matt]

No, we heard about it.

[Joel]

Well, they are. They're hearing about it. And so some customers are basically saying that they've received post rental bills for damage that they didn't inflict on the car they rented.

[Matt]

So they're like, what, due to the AI scanners?

[Joel]

Yeah, I didn't get in an accident. I didn't bump into anything like Matt did in Scotland. Like, that wasn't me. So.

[Matt]

Good thing that was pre AI scanners.

[Joel]

Right. Well, Sherwood says that one Customer was charged $195 for a dent that looked like it crashed into an ant.

[Matt]

Yeah, it was a really funny line.

[Joel]

Great description. Again, I get that Hertz wants to save on labor costs by having AI scan cars for damage versus using humans, but they and other car rental companies, they run the risk of alienating their customers by fabricating these charges. And have you seen what they look like, Matt? It looks kind of like what humans walk through at the airport as they go through security. Those scanners, TSA scanners. It's kind of like that for a car. And it's like taking these 360 videos and photos. And it has, obviously, what with. Think about how good cameras are now, how much detail they can get into. Oh, yeah, and they can find those seemingly insignificant scratches that you probably didn't even put on the car. It was there already. And then they can say, yeah, previous customer. This is on you.

[Matt]

But if it was there already, wouldn't it have been caught by the previous renter?

[Joel]

You would think so, maybe. But they're also so minor that a human never would have done anything about it. And typically, you wouldn't be charged for a minor, minor scratch.

[Matt]

So I think, like, the guy at Scotland, I was just like, oh, you know, kind of. He's like, oh, don't worry about it. Yeah, I'm not going to even try. But.

[Joel]

Well, and one of the. One of the things people can do to protect themselves is to just. Is to take a 360 video as you're walking around the car, zero in your own scan.

[Matt]

Yeah, I always take a ton of photos.

[Joel]

And that way if you get called out, you get some sort of bill in the mail. You can be like, no, no, that was here before. Or, what are you talking about? Like, do it before and after, and then say, it's not on my video. Or, I don't see anything here. Yeah. That way you can at least have a fighting chance.

[Matt]

Yeah, I get it. I'm of two minds. Because on. From the renter's perspective, you don't want to get hit with a bill for a small little ding. But, like, from. Well, even from a renter's. Like, imagine you're the next renter, right? And, like, as this happens over the course of multiple rentals, multiple renters, you end up getting a car that's all dinged up. Like that's not what you're paying for when you rent a brand new vehicle. So from a renter point of view, it's keeps the standards high. But then also for Hertz, they're, you know, they unload these vehicles after, after a couple years and when they go to auction these things off, if you got a car that's all dinged up with nothing to show for it, well, you're going to get a whole lot less for it. But I will say one of the other examples was like a droplet of water was on the car and that was initially cited by one of the customers. It was flagged to a customer as a dent. And they're like, no, man, that's some rain. That was like, that's water. And they apologize. Really? Oh, sorry. Actually, I don't even know if they apologized, but he didn't have to pay anything because of that. So you just gotta be careful if it's not ready for prime time yet. That's another reason to maybe slow the roll when it comes to implementing some of this. But it's just fascinating because how it is that a company rolls something like this out has such an impact on how a company is perceived, which then therefore has an impact on the share price of that company if it's publicly traded or even if you want to work for it. There's new research from Charter that links the financial health and the stock market returns of a company to how it is perceived by the workforce. So for instance, when folks want to work for a particular employer, it has many benefits enhancing that specific brand. Right. They're attracting and retaining talent. It's limiting turnover, which leads to even more positive results for that company.

[Joel]

Yeah, like the actual hiring process and training of new employees costs so much money that if there's a high turnover, it's an expense.

[Matt]

Exactly. Yeah. And this then of course improves customer service. It engenders loyalty from customers. It's an upward spiral, basically. It just makes me think about all the different PR professionals who are out there. If you are, if you know somebody that has the work, the title at work of like chief storyteller, like all the PR folks are just like fist pumping and just like so happy because they're like, yeah, see, what we do matters because truly something like Hearst, if they were to have rolled that out in a very public way, they would have gotten lambasted. I mean, they're getting called out on it already as it is. But I've got to think that something like this is a much easier thing to get past as opposed to rolling this out as a new feature where they just get ridiculed and made fun of by the market.

[Joel]

Well, what you were just talking about too, with kind of where people want to work and how that enhances a brand, it makes me think that like if I was out there looking for a job in the workforce instead of just looking for positions that reflected what I was interested in, I would be looking towards employers who have a great reputation amongst their employees and I would be looking for positions at those companies that I was interested in.

[Matt]

Absolutely.

[Joel]

Because I want to work for a company that treats people well, that offers great benefits, where I could stay for a long time instead of just getting the position and the salary I was interested in because I don't know, I might not be there as long. It might not be as good of an experience.

[Matt]

Totally agree. Yeah. That's why these narratives though are so important because it's almost like a self fulfilling prophecy. If you say that you believe in something, it attracts people who then believe in that. A couple brands come to mind, but I'm not going to focus on them at this point in time. Joel, let's talk about hybrid work because I think this is an instance where we're going to have to eat some crow. Remember we had an episode called, I think it was called Hybrid Work is here to say.

[Joel]

You remember that we're wrong sometimes.

[Matt]

Oh yeah. And we're to going to call ourselves out on it.

[Joel]

I'm okay falling on the sword here.

[Matt]

Hybrid work is no longer the norm and worker leverage is on the decline. More than half of the top Fortune 100 companies are requiring employees to be back at the office full time. So I guess it's maybe Fortune 50 companies. We go from the Fortune 500 to the 100 to the 50. But for folks who got used to like a zero commute, basically, if they got used to having more flexible times or maybe even some of those folks even moved right, they're like, oh, location doesn't even matter.

[Joel]

I'm moving out to the country because I don't have that commute. And then the employer comes and knocking and says, yes you do.

[Matt]

They're like, oh, maybe I'll move to Boise like Matt was thinking, which was very short lived, which I'm so glad. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad that was very short lived. Of course it's nice to get paid, but is it worth going back to this sort of old pre. Pan. Pre Covid. Normalcy. There are certainly pros and cons to it. I think there are more pros for younger workers who are looking to show that they've got the initiative, they got what it takes, they're trying to learn from their peers.

[Joel]

Get that FaceTime.

[Matt]

Yeah, but if your employer is pushing for some serious back to office, you know, policies that you aren't okay with, I would recommend to just politely push back. See if this is something that you can discuss. Is this a conversation worth having? Hey, maybe this is. Maybe we can have some sort of roundtable discussion. I don't know, like what's it called out there in the corporate world, folks, I'm lacking when it comes to the most latest experience of what it's like to be in the corporate world. That or despite the cooling labor market, it might even be worth looking elsewhere. If this is not something, if this, if it has been very clearly communicated that this isn't a conversation we're having anymore.

[Joel]

Because I still think those flexible policies are going to matter to workers for.

[Matt]

The best workers out there for sure.

[Joel]

And I think that, that a lot of companies, yeah, you can try to go all draconian, but you will eventually have some brain drain and those people are going to want to go to companies that have a little more flexibility. I was talking to a friend who just got a new job at one of those big tech companies and he was like, yeah, I have to go in. I think I forget if he said four or five days a week, but all I have to do is like be there for a little bit. So I've been going in 10 to 2 or 10 to 3 and I'm avoiding traffic on both ends, but I'm in the office and so, so I'm giving them what they want, but I'm kind of getting what I want at the same time. And I do think the companies are gonna have to be flexible.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think on both ends. Right. Like for the employer it's just like, all right, cool, you're getting in there. You're having some of those face to face meetings, being a bit more collaborative, which is I think still easier without having to go do it over zoom or teams or whatever.

[Joel]

Yeah. And maybe you're doing some of that in the morning, a little bit of that when you get home, but you're not at the office all day.

[Matt]

Totally.

[Joel]

Let's talk about some of the downsides of work from home. There's this new work trend index report. And they said that one of the biggest downsides, and this is something I think we've seen spiral out of control. Matt. They're calling it the infinite workday. Basically it was a Microsoft report that found that workers are starting, they're looking at email at 6am Likely right after they wake up. And then those workers are battling messages on a ton of different fronts like Slack and Microsoft Teams and then text messages and phone calls. So they feel like they're getting inundated with requests or with, you know, coworker chatter from every direction. Then also they're working into the evening with a whole lot of folks, a high percentage of people digging back into their inbox between 8 and 10pm oh, and then guess what, the weekends aren't free of work. Either you're maybe expected to respond or you're at least checking stuff, trying to stay up on it even though you're not supposed to be working. And then there's this just the reality of work these days where there's constant interruptions. On average every two minutes you're being interrupted by a ping from somewhere. And it makes me think of Cal Newport. One of his first books was called Deep Work and Man, how do you actually get deep work done when it feels like you can't? You're constantly playing whack a mole. Right. Whether it's with messages or emails or you're just kind of. You never have that time to actually deeply focus on a task.

[Matt]

Yeah. What was the number? I think it was like 23 minutes. Once you are distracted from something, it takes you 23 minutes to kind of regain your focus to be able to hit that deep work again.

[Joel]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Which we love saying when we're talking about distractions. But I'm also, I don't know, I don't know if I totally believe that 23 minutes sounds like a long time. Doesn't that sound like a long time?

[Joel]

Sometimes your mind wanders for a while. I don't know.

[Matt]

Like I get it.

[Joel]

I could be, I get distracted easily.

[Matt]

But I guess even if it's half of that, like, let's just say even if it's 10 minutes, that's a lot of time when you are getting distracted as often as oftentimes we are.

[Joel]

And I think it's probably a good idea to have some like non office hours during the day where if you are working on a big project or you know, because some people, like you mentioned PR people just a second ago, Matt, A lot of those people, their job is to constantly be in their inbox. So that's just a different type of profession. Right, but then there are other professions where you're like, no, I have to work on this project and I cannot be emailing and slacking while I'm trying to get that thing done. And you carving out an hour in the afternoon and 30 minutes in the morning or whatever, but carving out these specific times where you're not responsive and then kind of letting people know that whether it's an away from the desk message or something like that on slide slack, letting your boss know, hey, I'm going to be unreachable, but it's going to make sure I'm able to meet the deadline. That's really important to kind of set, I think, those expectations and allow that time for yourself to do what you need to do so that you can actually be productive and not just be responding to whatever someone else tells you is urgent in the moment.

[Matt]

Yeah. You said away from desk. Obviously away from office makes it seem like you're not even on location. Away from desk. It's just like, well, he's around, but what's he even doing? Maybe he's over there playing ping pong. I would even call it like an away from email or away from slack sort of message because it's like, no, I'm sitting here, I'm working. I'm just trying to do the important stuff.

[Joel]

I've just muted this right now.

[Matt]

Exactly like I'm sitting here. We're a part of this, but let's have some dedicated time to the project at hand that we're trying to be able to deliver in two weeks, that sort of thing. Or maybe you can just leave all the notifications on Joel, but just put earplugs in. That's what I do here in the office.

[Joel]

Yeah, you've done it. Yeah.

[Matt]

How do you feel when I put my earplugs in? Because sometimes I get even distracted by. By when my coworkers are typing and when I say coworkers, everyone knows I'm talking about you.

[Joel]

There's not many of them. It doesn't bother me.

[Matt]

I think even something super simple, if.

[Joel]

I need something, I'll let you know.

[Matt]

Yeah, you kind of like wave, but I can kind of hear you. But it's enough to kind of blunt the sharp stimulus of messages. Other sounds like folks who, honestly, folks who go in and work in like a coffee shop. I don't know how they do that. And maybe I'm just overly sensitive, but I like the vibe. I like the scene of going and working somewhere where there's a lot of people. But man, the distractions.

[Joel]

I'd never get anything done.

[Matt]

I would not. Well, I know why you wouldn't, because you're talking to everybody. Yeah, I'm ignoring people, but then I'm thinking about the fact that I've ignored them.

[Joel]

But if I, if I really have to dig in and get something done, I'm usually taking like clicking out of the email tab on my phone.

[Matt]

Like you just shut that thing down.

[Joel]

If I see the number popping up, I'm tempted to go over there and get in and I get distracted pretty quickly.

[Matt]

And then command Q on the on.

[Joel]

The mail app and when do I actually get back to the task?

[Matt]

There you go.

[Joel]

Know. All right, Matt, that's going to do it for this Friday flight. The show notes we always live up on the [e-mail] along with a bunch of other money saving information. But yeah, we'll catch you back here on Monday for a fresh Ask how to Money episode.

[Matt]

Know it.

[Joel]

Until next time, best friends out Best friends.

[iHeart Podcast]

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[Sports Announcer]

Iheart presents the big three playoffs this Sunday. The remaining four teams battle to make the championship in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the Big three Monster Energy celebrity game. Then Dwight Howard and his Ellie Riot take on Montrez Harrell and Dr. J Chicago triplets. The finale will see popular Miami 305 with stars MVP Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson take on Nancy Lieberman's Dallas power who will make it to the three championship. The no holds barred action starts Sunday at 3pm Eastern, 12 Pacific only on CBS.

[Bob Crawford]

I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, a different type of podcast. You, the listener, ask the questions.

[Matt]

Did George Washington really cut down a cherry tree?

[Joel]

Were JFK and Marilyn Monroe having an affair?

[Bob Crawford]

And I find the answers.

[Joel]

I'm so glad you asked me this question.

[iHeart Podcast]

This is such a ridiculous story.

[Bob Crawford]

You can listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[iHeart Podcast]

This is an iHeart podcast.